Diving into Church History on the Papacy (and Some Other Stuff)

Alpha & Omega Ministries

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

Comments are disabled.

00:29

Well greetings and welcome to the dividing line it's gonna be a busy day for me we've got the program for the next hour and then a brief break and I'll be joining

00:39

Eli Ayala and we are going to be recording I know it'll take more than an hour for that one a response to Cameron Bertuzzi's nine arguments against solo scriptura he said he spent what he would

01:00

I've got it right here hold on he said he spent the last year for almost quote for almost an entire year

01:09

I've been researching and perfecting the strongest arguments against solo scriptura and today

01:17

I'm revealing the top nine reasons why this core Protestant doctrine doesn't work each argument bills in the last so they're actually going to get increasingly powerful leading to a conclusion this absolutely devastating at least in my view especially the final three arguments and yes we'll be taking on the toughest objections along the way well there was one thing new it was the weakest argument which he thinks is his strongest argument everything else was plain old plain old that's been responded to refuted over and over again and I did not get the slightest hint from listening multiple times to this presentation that mr.

02:02

Bertuzzi actually ever reads the other side he clearly has not read almost anything on the subject from the

02:12

Protestant perspective so yeah but it's still your standard oh look at all the denominations and it's all due to the sole scriptura and all that kind of stuff it's it's the basic stuff but it has to be responded to on a regular basis and Eli and I will be doing that after the program so and I think he said we're not gonna be doing it live we're gonna record it but he said that he does expect to have it posted tonight so I'll certainly try to remember to link to it so I'll be sitting here for a while this afternoon and it's gotta be thankful remember only a few years ago we were going well we hope we'll see you next time we we hope that you know big brother doesn't shut us down between now and then you never know you never know

03:07

I'm not gonna start going that direction anyway don't have time today to go into as much as I would like to but the

03:22

Joel webbing group member couple months ago they put out a video that was just filled with basic level errors regarding the

03:31

Council of Nicaea and stuff like that well they decided to double down on that and they brought in a young Australian fellow sharp guy but again the this the title of this one was how sacralism saved the church and I I posted a tweet an ex post whatever you call these things these days and I said just a historical note we just passed the 1700th anniversary of the beginning of the

04:07

Council of Nicaea which you know 325 2025 yeah that's where we are

04:13

Constantine did not save the church from heresy back and it's wildly naive

04:22

I mean clearly we have not been teaching church history we have not been teaching church history and if you know anything about church history you know that Aryanism was not the first heresy to arise that the church have been fighting

04:49

Gnosticism so as fighting movements from outside Gnosticism was the greatest challenge that the early church faced for centuries

04:58

I think it was prophetically warned about by the Apostle Paul and they had also in the east especially had been dealing with things like dynamic monarchism modalism patra passion ism etc etc and there had been no government intervention because the church was being persecuted by the government and yet they had dealt with these things and if Constantine had not called the

05:32

Council of Nicaea of the we would have dealt with the biblical testimony to the deity of Christ Unitarianism always turns inward and dies on itself a

05:47

Christianity without a divine Savior accomplishes nothing and always ends up in Universalism Unitarian Universalism etc etc has down through history so not only that but again to anyone actually reads a little history you discover that Constantine changed his views after Council Nicaea now

06:15

I know Eastern Orthodox writers and writers later on who you know once you had like the donation of Constantine for forgery going on and how important this was in the founding of the papal hierarchy they tried to whitewash the fact that Constantine was baptized in his life by an

06:39

Aryan bishop or at least a bishop with Aryan sympathies but that way and they ignore the airing resurgence that took place after the

06:50

Council of Nicaea the fact that you have well as I said in the tweet

06:56

I said Constantine did not save the church from heresy back then neither did the Council of Nicaea 318 mainly

07:02

Eastern bishops or the Council of Ariminum 400 plus mainly Western bishops isn't it interesting that Ariminum is semi -Aryan and that represents the

07:14

West if you really really think sacralism is the way then historically and consistently you need to start reading up on Trent and Vatican one and two and whatever else is coming down the pike and go buy your

07:26

Leo the 14th is my homeboy t -shirts or if you want to be cool these days you can go for some EO icons instead if you want sacralism we have a long history of it and if you're literally gonna say that the state saved the church theologically there are certain inevitable ramifications and it's obvious to me that this movement is going to be a nice big broad gateway straight across the

07:57

Tiber River or across the Bosporus hey you know you can what's the what's the flavor of sacralism today anyway

08:05

EO Rome whatever there's a history here and once you start buying into this stuff oh there are people say oh you don't have to go that far no no no you we can we can we can yeah good luck with that well we'll see how that works for you well we'll talk to you ten years down the road and see how many of your acolytes are now in st.

08:29

Cyprian's Roman Catholic Church someplace maybe you could trade in your Greg Bonson is my homeboy t -shirts that you surely aren't wearing anymore anyway and never understood to begin with in any case

08:42

Arianism was defeated for the faithful by the inspired Word of God which told us plant the word is deity as eternally existed and when you come when you become foolish enough to believe the church needs to be saved by the state you might as well chuck every five solas mug and mouse pad you have been let you have laying around as as well because you won't be believing that stuff much longer

09:02

I hopefully straightforward enough pretty clear I think but this is where this stuff's going sacralism never saved the church sacralism gave us oh my gosh you cannot begin to sacralism gave us

09:24

Nicaea too okay and I know I know almost nobody knows anything about the second

09:31

Nicene Council everybody knows about Nicaea one but Nicaea two well we've talked about it but I think it for a lot of people goes in one ear and back out the other and what book is that oh okay sorry sometimes you see a title like is that the book

09:49

I've been looking for oh no it's not nevermind yeah we most people don't know anything about the second

09:56

Nicene Council but it was called by Empress Irene in 787 and it could not have come to any other conclusion than the one that it did as a

10:07

Roman Catholic or in Eastern Orthodox you have to believe that Nicaea too is infallible that it's guided by the

10:13

Holy Spirit of God it was a political council called by Empress Irene and could not have come to any other conclusion than to teach that the

10:21

Apostles taught us to venerate and kiss icons which historically is a complete fraud didn't happen sound historians recognize that this is not an apostolic belief at all but sacralism forces you to kiss the icon

10:42

I'm sorry I'm not kissing the icon so you can take your sacralism and take it someplace else it just seems that that these guys just they're in these little echo chambers they're not out dealing with what's going on the world they're not out dealing with Eastern Orthodoxy and stuff like that and so they're willing to adopt positions that will make it impossible for them to defend their defend themselves just impossible but they go with it anyways so there were a couple things on on social media in that area here's a this is a really good example from my perspective

11:34

I've told the story I don't know when it was it was during John Paul II so this has been at least it's probably about 20 years ago

11:43

I posted somewhere wrote an article somewhere did something where I contrasted some words from John Paul II with words of I think it was unum sanctum or something like that just demonstrating evolution in the papacy contradiction the papacy you know what did

12:08

Luther say when he was standing before Charles the Diet of Worms councils and Popes have contradicted each other everybody knew that then and at least up until 1870 with Vatican one and papal infallibility it was sort of a yeah we all we all get that but now the

12:25

Pope's infallible you can't have them contradicting each other even though they have over and over again so now you've got the development of doctrine and all these other hoops you got to jump through to try to make all this stuff work anyway

12:37

Bob St. Genes and I don't know if he would do this any longer but this was at a different point in time in history had contacted me and said who are you to interpret the church you're outside the churches so you don't you get you don't get to interpret what the church state states it's like so I can take a a statement from 700 years ago and one from today put them in their proper historical context so we know what is being said and no matter what they are going to be in harmony with one another that's what you're saying because church is infallible and it's a circle to be to be trapped in so there's a guy

13:35

Ozer Cain saw I have no idea but Ozer Cain saw

13:42

I had he actually responded to the tweet that I just wrote in regards to Nicaea eriminum all the rest that stuff he said you know

14:00

Arius used scripture in support of Arianism right I said no really

14:05

I had no idea I mean I've never engaged Unitarians myself or translated portions of Athanasius's works in defense of the deity of Christ or anything like that so no wow thanks for letting me know a little bit of sarcasm there yeah

14:17

I did know that the Aryans to them the point is he says heretics tend to use scripture for their own means whether it be

14:26

Arius and Astorius or Calvin what's great is that the church has already defeated these heresies so you might want to just work on renouncing

14:33

Calvinism and so I responded about let me read my response this is what you're missing if you're not following me on on X all this fun stuff a serious analysis of Nicaea to will demonstrate the honest minded person to the claim of having defeated heresies is always subject to analysis in the case of Nicaea to what was defeated is the obvious fact that icon of Julia was a relatively new development and was not in any way apostolic so I have to chuckle a bit and agree with Gregory not

15:07

Sian's when after leaving the Council of Constantinople in 381 wrote quote to tell you plainly

15:14

I am disposed to avoid every assembly of bishops for I have never seen a synod brought to a happy issue nor remedying but rather increasing existing evils forever is their rivalry and ambition and these have the mastery of reason you will perhaps think my freedom intolerable one president as judge will much more readily catch the infection from others than be able to restrain it in them so Gregory not

15:45

Sian's us who had been president of an ecumenical council Constantinople 381 is what reaffirmed

15:53

Nicaea after the Aryan ascendancy he says he leaves and goes

15:58

I ain't ever going back it's a mess and councils are a mess and stuff like that so he then responds and here's the here's the illustration he says being outside the one holy

16:15

Catholic and apostolic Church you're not one to analyze any decision made by the church especially an ecumenical council which refuted the iconoclasm heresy submit yourself to the church and stop elevating yourself as supreme authority so here you got now when you hear someone say that when if you ran to somebody on Twitter and they said well you're outside the one holy

16:42

Catholic and apostolic Church what church is that most the time you're talking to Roman Catholic he's not a

16:50

Roman Catholic he sees an orthodox so they all make the same claim they all even though they come to different conclusions they all make the same claim and but here basically so you can go okay so you honestly think that the now has he ever heard of he area the council was held before the second

17:18

I seen council that condemned the veneration of icons I don't know most people have not most people have not had ninety nine point nine nine five percent of people call themselves

17:32

Christians would never heard of it as you ever heard of the Council of Frankfurt that came after Nicaea to which rejected the ecumenical claims of Nicaea to and like he area came to similar conclusions but less radically expressed than he area did no probably doesn't

17:55

I didn't have an idea but anybody who knows anything about the history of the council knows that Empress Irene everybody knew what the result was going to be she wasn't going

18:08

I just don't know she loved icons she brought all these monks in who were big venerators of icons

18:18

I mean there it was it was a given at the first session what was going to take place and then they anathema ties everybody from he area and anathema ties anyone who had ever condemned icons and the apostles taught us to kiss the icon and it's just historical fiction and the biblical argumentation from Nicaea to was laughable but folks this is sacralism this is sacralism this is what it does okay from the

18:56

East Orthodox perspective Empress Irene was a Christian Empress defending the church so if you're gonna be consistent guys go get your icons and start this in a way we want

19:18

Protestant sacralism okay like making it up like you're as you're going along yeah so anyway

19:33

I just the circularity it's so clear and so obvious but a lot of people just they just don't see it so where'd the other one go yeah here we go

19:52

I'm looking at bookmarks in case you're wondering what I'm doing over here I want to do a quick run through of a fairly lengthy tweet that was sent to me by Charles Tingler at least you know these days on social media someone who actually puts their name you almost automatically want to invest some time because it's like oh someone who has the integrity to take their position and be known for taking their position that's that's worthwhile even if we completely disagree with one another more power to you given all the other stuff that's that's going on and I may say a little bit more about that here a little bit later on yeah

20:50

I will I've got a couple more tweets here to look at but um so Charles Tingler is a

20:59

Roman Catholic well it says Catholic candidate so I'm not really sure what that means college student young guy okay that's cool

21:06

I'm assuming that's his picture I don't stunningly the picture

21:12

I have on my account happens to be me there you go he says here is the evidence you leave out or dismiss too quickly while it is true at the

21:23

Council of Nicaea did not define papal supremacy as Vatican one did in 1870 well there the the the centuries of development and again you can find dozens of Roman Catholic historians that would say what

21:40

I'm about to say there's centuries of development to get to Vatican one and there are centuries of forgeries to be produced before you get to Vatican one so without the donation of Constantine without the pseudo -Isidore and decretals they come out in you know sometime before 800 certainly they're in the 8th century they massively increase papal power papal prestige and papal claims to the lands there in Italy and stuff like that but still that's that's still not anywhere near the development that you have when you finally get to Vatican one in 1870 and you've got the huge medieval

22:27

Popes who you know excommunicated emperors and you know unum sanctum and you have to be in submission to the

22:35

Roman bishop even be saved and all this stuff that's way down the road and I see at nice at the first Council of Nicaea none of that stuff was not nobody had even thought of anything like that nobody even thought about it and as I've said over and over again on this subject you need to understand something and JB Lightfoot pointed this out 150 years ago the original claims of authority centered in Rome were due to the church in Rome not the

23:13

Bishop of Rome there's two reasons for that reason number one was there wasn't a singular bishop in Rome until around 140 so for nearly a hundred years nobody even in Rome thought you needed to have a singular bishop in Rome so they had no concept of Petrine primacy

23:33

Bishop of Rome Peter above all the other Apostles all that stuff is gonna come way down the road it's all development and that's why real historians people who know something about history recognize the evolutionary nature these things and that's why

23:50

Newman understood it that's why Newman came up with the development hypothesis one of the things we're gonna talk about with Eli is how weird it is that Roman Catholic apologists today like Cameron Bertuzzi will make claims on one side about Protestantism about the authority of the church and all the rest that kind of stuff not recognizing that their own communion has to use the development hypothesis this the the the acorn growing into the tree idea you know so so Cameron will say well where is it nearly church to which we go well where is the bodily assumption nearly church oh well that's different no it's not you you want to say oh well you know it's it's it's tradition but it's it's like the acorn in the tree and so it's okay for you to dogmatize something say that your eternal salvation depends on it and it's nowhere in the first thousand years of the church and that's just cool but we have to come up with something in the first thousand years which of course we can

25:01

I mean the evidence for scriptural sufficiency and supremacy in patristic sources in comparison to anything about the bodily assumption is stunning but they don't know it not especially if they're only reading jurgens or something like that so that's where it goes um so anyway uh he says while it is true the

25:24

Council of Nicaea did not define papal supremacy as Vatican one today 70 there are several historical facts that undermine your conclusion that Nicaea either denied

25:33

Roman primacy or operate in a purely regional regional Episcopal model why

25:38

I didn't say that um you're going to see as I have said many times and most these guys they don't have a clue what

25:46

I've they've not listened to the program they're not looking stuff up I don't care what I've written lectured on stuff like that you know it's it's

25:55

Twitter you you do that kind of stuff but as the historical record would demonstrate we have talked many times about for example

26:05

Cyprian and Stephen Cyprian the great North African bishop was not a

26:12

Christian for a very long period of time he was martyred fairly early on in his Christian career and and believe things that I would disagree with but then again like I said if you have a brief period of time it's not like you had the luxury of sitting around and reading broadly in a great deal of good sound theology in those days he didn't he's trying to run a church that is being persecuted

26:41

I've read to you for example his letter to the Christians in the mines which is tremendously challenging amazing stuff so you know the man lost his head to a

26:55

Roman sword and persecution because he wouldn't renounce Christ so you give him some you give him some leeway there but anyway he had quite the tussle with Stephen the

27:08

Bishop of Rome we find in Stephen some of the very first claims of Roman supremacy and the

27:18

North African bishops rejected it read for millions letter if you can't find it go back to the debate

27:27

I did with Jerry Madita X in 1993 was that when the papal visit was 93

27:34

World Youth Day and up in Denver I think it was 93 and 1993 I read from for millions letter where he rejects anyone who calls himself a bishop of bishops and all the rest of this kind of stuff so this is uh you know 70 years prior to Nicaea and so Stephen is making claims as the

27:59

Bishop of Rome but what's the foundation of that the foundation of that is not the later

28:05

Roman theory of Petrine primacy as JB Lightfoot pointed out the power initially was found in the church at Rome why because it was the church at Rome and Rome was still the center of the

28:25

Empire all roads led to Rome which meant that a church at Rome would have communion with and contact with pretty much every major church in the

28:38

Empire because all churches all all roads led to Rome and the

28:46

Roman Church had significantly more financial wherewithal than the vast majority of other churches and so the church at Rome would help other churches well that would give you considerably more oomph shall we say in your authority so it started off well it's the it's the church in the center of the

29:12

Empire it's the it's the church you know written to by the

29:17

Apostle Paul it's it's natural and the idea of the bishop being the the focus of that authority rather than the church itself got a huge boost impetus historically once the

29:38

West begins to fall once Alaric the Visigoths visit Rome and for 10 and that process continues and the western part of the

29:50

Empire begins to fall who's the main person still standing in Rome the

29:58

Bishop of Rome and so what had developed rather naturally and and let's remember one other thing little history here

30:06

I know we're doing a lot of history but this is why it's important because obviously a lot of people on our side don't do history that's why they're buying into stuff that we managed to get rid of in the

30:17

Reformation eventually but they want to go back to it put up put a picture of the

30:25

Mediterranean in your mind okay and you know this used to be true of everybody but it used to be we all had

30:40

Bibles paper Bibles that we carried along and they had maps in the back and we learned those maps because sometimes the sermon wasn't all that exciting and so we were looking at the past and stuff like that because it was colorful is better than very better what was going on up there doesn't work quite as well with your olive tree

31:04

Bible software on your phone to do the same thing but picture the

31:09

Mediterranean in your mind and then put on the map the cities that had churches that claimed to be founded by Apostles now some of them were questionable but that had some type of credible argument that they were founded by an

31:31

Apostle then draw a line down the middle basically draw a line sort of right down through Greece into North Africa what you'll discover is that there are numerous churches in the east that claim apostolic foundation

31:50

Jerusalem Antioch Alexandria they're eventually

31:56

Constantinople modern -day Istanbul they're all in the east and guess what those are the major patriarchates in Eastern Orthodox how many do you have in the

32:07

West one Rome Rome so it's no shock it's a historical reality that the form of church government in Eastern Orthodoxy are equal supposedly theoretically equal patriarchs of these major apostolic these most the history of politically of Eastern Orthodoxy is the struggle for power between just just look at historically in the fifth six centuries what's going on between Constantinople and Alexandria how many times did somebody from one side or the other end up in a prison someplace because the other guy yeah it's just a lot so but that's so you have a diffused leadership divided amongst equal patriarchs in the east one in the

33:08

West becomes the Pope so history has a lot to do with this stuff it's very obvious the

33:15

New Testament has very little to do with this stuff at all so you know the first place you start seeing people interpreting

33:22

Matthew 16 18 oh it's look at that it's coming out of Rome shocking that that's where it'd be coming from and yet even when that happens

33:31

Cyprian's like yeah so in fact the Deacons in Rome wrote to Cyprian in Carthage and called him

33:41

Pope they addressed him as Pope Cyprian the Deacons in Rome so I know there's

33:49

I know all this historical stuff you know it's not convenient for certain claims because you know the stuff that Rome has claimed for itself later is just so historically wild that you're just left going wow what what's going on here but yeah this is so when he says undermine your conclusion and I see either denied

34:13

Roman primacy well all I said is if the church was functioning with a modern perspective

34:21

I don't think the vast majority of theologians in the Curia today would say that it was

34:28

I think the vast majority of Roman Catholic theologians and historians would say no this was you know they're deeply influenced by Newman not familiar with you

34:41

I'm talking about John Henry Cardinal Newman his development hypothesis end of the 19th century really important stuff that has massive impact upon the theology of the

34:52

Roman Catholic Church but they are influenced by that and so they would go no yeah there was evolution and this was an early period of time and and yeah no no problem at all but Roman Catholic apologists will default to Newman when they have to but to actually be able to do a debate you can't you can't do a debate as a follower of Newman because as George Salmon pointed out very clearly in his book the infallibility of the church around the same time

35:23

Newman's hypothesis is an abandonment of the historical field of battle Newman's basically saying yeah you're right there was no functioning papacy back then which is our point but but it would become functioning and it's appropriate there to become functioning well that that's not the argument that's being made by Catholic apologists and so the point is that if the church were functioning under the idea that there was an infallible single leader of the entire church it's that guy is the

35:56

Bishop of Rome why are we getting 318 bishops together to argue about the deity of Christ ask that guy that's why when

36:06

Francis said who am I to judge about homosexuals everybody's like I hear the

36:13

Pope I think aren't you we're not sure it's hard to say you know um it's like okay all right so then he goes through some things things interestingly enough he does mention the sixth canon of Nicaea which again if you go back to 9394

36:32

I did a debate Rob Zins and I versus Bob St. Janice and Scott Butler at Boston College and they had a really interesting way of trying to get around this they actually dragged up the

36:43

Arabic version of the sixth council six canon of Nicaea try to come up with a different way of interpreting it uh but he quotes canon six let the ancient customs in Egypt Libya and pentapolis prevail that the

36:56

Bishop of Alexandria have jurisdiction in all these since the like is customary for the Bishop of Rome also likewise in Antioch and the other provinces let the churches retain their privileges so this is a well -known historical citation from the

37:12

Council of Nicaea and again just in passing I will mention the vast majority of Protestants who talk about oh you know the authority of the

37:24

Council of Nicaea gotta understand what they're saying they won't they won't necessarily come out and say this clearly they're only talking about the

37:31

Creed they're only talking about a very short Creed they're not talking about the vast majority what the council also actually said they reject all of them almost every

37:42

Protestant I know rejects the canons of the

37:48

Council of Nicaea because it's it's a different ecclesiology but the point is here you have the

37:57

Bishop of Alexandria is to have ultimate jurisdiction in Egypt Libya and Patapolis likewise

38:07

Antioch and the other provinces in other words there is a clear delineation of Alexandria Antioch Rome what are those those are apostolic seas they claim to have apostolic apostolic foundation and so rich we could drop it down it's getting hot in here it's just not working as well

38:36

I'm not sure what's it's like the fan isn't running or something I'm not sure anyway so he says this canon uses

38:45

Rome as the benchmark to justify Alexandria's authority no it doesn't that's like that's like saying it uses

38:54

Antioch to do that no it doesn't it's recognizing that these are apostolic the word sense signals that the practice of Rome is a precedent no doesn't at all it's just simply recognizing yes

39:08

Rome is no one is questioning that no one's questioning Rome's authority in Rome's area but Rome's area isn't the world that's the point and the modern

39:20

Roman theory did not exist in the minds of people in Nicaea the bishops at Nicaea did not believe almost anything dogmatically that the modern

39:31

Roman Catholic Church is defined as necessary for belief such as bodily assumption Mary immaculate conception papal infallibility purgatory all that kind of stuff later development that's the reality of the evolution of history in these things if Rome had no privacy was merely another local bishopric which is no one's no one's saying notice notice you don't don't put it in a meaningful fashion this canon makes no sense the early church clear saw

40:01

Rome status is normative the can is not defining Roman authority it presumes it but the it the canon is saying

40:06

Rome's authority is limited that's the point that's the point so again you know when someone's saying that I don't mention this

40:15

I can take you back to 1993 okay 32 years ago in public debate at Boston College not exactly known as a

40:27

Baptist University okay where we debated this very issue read it discussed it so on so forth the letter of st.

40:39

Julius notice st. Julius when Eastern bishops attempted to depose st. Athanasius during the

40:44

Arian controversy Athanasius appealed to Rome the letter dated around 341 Pope Julius wrote can you be ignorant this is the custom that we should be written to first so from here what is just may be defined letter to you

40:57

CBN's 22 this shows that Rome was already functioning as a court of final appeal this is not just primacy of honor it is practical authority being exercised and expected by others again you will find numerous examples of people writing to different churches there when when

41:15

North Africans hundred and not quite a hundred years later when

41:24

Pelagius and Zosima is that the whole thing with sermon 131 with Augustine when people appealed to Rome against the

41:39

North Africans having condemned them and Rome said reinstate him the

41:45

North Africans said take a hike they rejected it they rejected

41:51

Rome's appeal and Rome back down so there are lots of instances where people would appeal to this powerful per and it was really matter who had the most power oh because sacralism is developing at this time and so a lot of it had to do with which bishop has the current favor of the state let's appeal to that one so sacralism ended up actually having an impact on things like this theological things in the early church do you find lots of elevated language being used to the

42:33

Bishop of Rome if you want the Bishop of Rome on your side in a controversy but you can find that type of elevated language being written to all sorts of people if you want to have them on your side in a political controversy and all you got to do is look at the idiocy that we just see in the politics

42:52

United States today you see the exact same thing you want that guy in yours oh he's wonderful two months earlier you were saying he was a communist or something is it politics is politics and that's where you go and then of course you've got the old st.

43:08

Irenaeus thing just look up against heresies 3 .3 point 2 at ailment org we've dealt with that one before and again this is regards to Gnostic claims of authority and apostolic succession etc etc let's see the

43:24

Council of Sardica again gives explicit appellate authority the

43:30

Bishop of Rome again not surprising but this is not what Vatican one said Vatican one was not saying that there's a area in the in the

43:39

Empire where the Bishop of Rome would have authority the point is if he had it and I see oh why didn't he decide this and if he did decide it then why do you have the

43:50

Aryan ascendancy afterwards why do you even have the Bishop of Rome compromising on why is it only

43:55

Athanasius who stands firm if it wasn't for Athanasius we'd be Aryans that was the whole point this is all smoke and mirrors it's easy to work through once you go okay politics here politics there etc etc uh do -do -do -do -do yeah

44:17

I know Pope Sylvester not attend historical legates some people say that Hosea's preside over the council that's that's doesn't matter uh all that does actually causing more problems then why did a reminem do what a reminem did and they were

44:38

Western bishops more Western bishops gathered a reminem and compromised

44:45

Nicaea why if what you're saying is true so anyway so uh he concludes by saying the canon structurally appeals to Rome the authority exercised by Julius and the testament of Irenaeus all point to Rome that had unique standing of course had unique saying it was the only apostolic see in the

45:08

West we haven't by the way we have a studio audience that's misbehaving out there right now they're not listening well and clearly not taking notes they're not gonna be able to pass the quiz that is gonna be required of them to leave after programs over so that's just that's just sad so so he concludes by saying the seeds of papal authority were already there the seeds there you go the seeds this was not how the church was functioning at Nicaea okay they didn't appeal to the

45:47

Pope as the final authority where does Athanasius in his arguments against the

45:53

Aryans say I do not need to argue against the Aryans the Pope has spoken he's the infallible

45:59

Vicar of Christ what he says ex cathedra is the final authority where is that it's not there because nobody believed it and everybody already knew that the

46:10

Bishop of Rome had collapsed on this oh he was under pressure I know I know doesn't change anything he still did and even when he did did

46:23

Athanasius give in when Athanasius were condemned by counsel after counsel after counsel did he give in should he have on your theory of church government

46:34

I should have didn't and aren't we glad he did yeah very important let me see here did he

46:43

Wow I'm going by here quickly real quick okay just just one thing real quickly

46:55

I don't want to get into this it's just so nasty but I just want to just want to make reference to the fact the stuff you know this stuff coming out from Google via 3 or whatever it's called are these these videos that are for all intents and purposes look they don't look you cannot tell by looking at them that you're not looking at a video of a true human being speaking all the mannerisms

47:28

I movements everything is all

47:33

AI this person these people the people are interacting they're talking with one another they're laughing they're joking they don't exist never did exist and this does raise a lot of areas of discussion that we need to be having as Christians one thing that's just beyond question the biblical law of testimony we we must adhere to it you have to have two or three witnesses all the people get away with things that's right they won't before the bar of God but they will in this life because far worse is someone getting away with something in this life and dying is saying before God and being judged in light of that is for someone who did not do something to be convicted in this life and justice be completely subverted because the justice will be done in the first instance punishment will be perfectly meted out in the first instance when you meet out punishment against someone who did not do what they're accused of remember what

48:45

God's law says if you bring a charge against someone under God's law seeking to say have them killed and it's found out that you are the one who's lying

48:56

God's law was you get the punishment you wanted for them that's how serious they see if we took that seriously in our society be like we can't do that people wouldn't report any crimes at all the point is

49:11

God's law does not want the innocent condemned and because there will be judgment because God is watching everyone justice will be done but since modern man has gotten rid of the judgment there is no act 1731 for the modern man then we have to have judgment now here's the here's the thing we are

49:37

I remember like 10 years ago I remember this brief story it appeared and disappeared of somebody that had been arrested and imprisoned and it all turned out that the government had put stuff on their computer without their knowledge and then prosecuted them for that that is always freaked me out because I'm only semi -techie

50:03

I'm pretty decent with a Mac but well rich is worthless so that that's another thing but I couldn't there's no way that I would have the ability to know if my system's been compromised every time it starts doing weird stuff

50:22

I wonder about that I really do and so the fact the matter is if accusations are made on the basis of digital evidence anymore

50:35

I don't think it can be accepted not from a Christian perspective because it used to be well there's a video right there you can see it you notice did you see the thing today where someone did something to where they stabilized and enhanced the 1960s video of the

50:58

Bigfoot sighting thing you see that and it's like as soon as you look at you go that's a big tall guy in a hairy suit it's like yeah did you am

51:12

I doing it right yeah this is like it's really obvious you know but what if what if they want to come up with stuff after you die video of you doing terrible things you even if they did it while you were alive would you be able to defend yourself not the way things are now

51:32

I mean it was it was only about a year and a half ago that I played that thing those first time

51:41

I had ever heard anyone create an AI voice of me mimicking my voice and I'm sitting there looking at it and the words aren't matching what my mouth is doing but sure it sounds like me and I and and the first time that happened

51:54

I'm like I don't remember saying that it's a really strange feeling because you you start going but I must have because that is me no you can't go there anymore you can't go there anymore so there are some really when

52:13

I when I use the term vile vile to me is a very strong word and the stuff that we're seeing online from the

52:22

Christian nationalist side and it's not there isn't just one Christian nationalist side I understand that but you know who

52:28

I'm talking about the the Anon army of Christian nationalists that the the level of discourse is crashing fast and the sexual content profanity content violent content is is just growing very very rapidly we're clearly not dealing with Christians here in in many many many instances just there's tagging along because this is sort of something cool to do so some guy put out a video not they aren't trying to this one isn't seriously trying to make it look like me or anything like that but they're using my voice using

53:15

Jeff's voice I can't even tell you the title they gave it because again it's it's not something an actual

53:23

Christian would ever say or do again vile sexual stuff just that's why these people are is it it's very much reminiscent of you know twelve -year -olds you know out behind the gym telling dirty jokes that's about the level of intellect and thought that's going to this they have this thing like I get

53:46

I won't tell you about what it says but who pipes in and says something says this is art this is art but defiant

54:01

Baptist yes defiant Baptist who for some reason hid his his tweets recently and maybe he's back now

54:11

I don't know he is yeah yeah he he hid his tweets for a while in response to that kind of stuff

54:23

I just I'm reminded of a particular verse of scripture that that talks about and everybody knows

54:36

Psalm 133 one right it says behold how good and how pleasant it is for brothers to dwell in unity it is like the good oil upon the head coming down upon the beard

54:50

Aaron's beard coming down upon the edge of his robes

54:57

I was talking about the anointing of Aaron the high priest and and brothers dwelling together in unity and wouldn't that be wonderful wonderful if we could do that you know the beard the oil coming down upon Aaron's beard that would be a wonderful thing but I may not get to soteriology 101 well we'll leave it for next time we'll leave it for next time um

55:26

I have another post that I saved and that is in reference to the very sad situation with Kdub that I have not commented on I don't think

55:42

I think this happened after the last dividing line didn't because we did we did the mashup show that's right that's right so I haven't had time chance to comment on haven't had any contact with Chris the only way we really did contact each other regularly was on Twitter only met him a couple times while I was traveling in Texas as I recall very very sad situation very very sad situation for that church this is not the first time that this eldership has had to be dealing with some pretty challenging church discipline situations uh

56:24

I can only repeat what many other people have said and and that is if what we have read and I've not seen any counter citations or anything if what we have read on the website of the church from the elders is balanced and true then there's only one thing for Chris to do submit himself to the discipline of that church if his wife chooses separation divorce that is her prerogative she's the one that's been sinned against but his he's only got one thing to do and that is to submit to that that situation but it's just disgusting to me what is most disgusting because again most of these anonymous online commentators they're not involved in ministry they don't want anything about it they've never walked with people through these tragedies they've they they they make fun of sin sinfully rather than actually having to deal with the damage sin does within the fellowship and so they've not seen how wives sin against husbands husbands sin against wives husband wives sin against each other they haven't seen situations where it's pretty much one person the other person is doing everything they can and it can go either direction so they're willing to utilize situations like this and so this guy named

58:07

Austin online said so odd it's almost like the uniquely black racial proclivity for abandoning your wife and child wasn't sanctified upon regeneration what gives

58:21

James White I tell you one thing I would not want to stand before Christ with that tweet on the heavenly jumbotron especially when your heart is the ones being exposed man you have time to repent now

58:43

Austin you you need to really consider that you will be judged and God knows every thought of your heart every single one do you want to have that hang over your head unrepentant of if if if that doesn't bother you then

59:03

I need to talk to you about just simply coming to understand the gospel because you clearly don't you don't understand it but what's interesting was that was responded to there is a response from mr.

59:18

dumpers of the stone choir trouble whoa and he said they're having a very rough week and maze not even over yet and then hell awaits now

59:33

I suppose if you want to read that is positively positively as you could he's talking about June because June is

59:46

I'm really hoping that June's not going to be like it was a couple years ago it would be nice if June could just be

59:54

June I June used to be one of my favorite months a year because that's when school got out so that's when summer vacation started and well everybody got married in June what what you guys you guys got married in May but okay you messed it up but pretty much everybody gets married in June at least we did

01:00:16

I did coming up on 43 years ago this year 40 who celebrates 43

01:00:23

I mean literally Kelly's not even gonna be home first week she's gonna she's gonna be in Europe with her sister you know

01:00:30

I'm like cool have fun that's that's your but I mean 40 was big 45 we can do something but 43 you know it's like wasn't

01:00:41

Bush 43 lights are like man is it and whatever number anyhow so maybe that's what he's talking about I don't know but this kind of stuff

01:00:52

Wow it it truly I don't know I I just don't know how people can do these things um did he did he did he did he oh here's some stuff

01:01:06

I'll have to go look at later on that just came my direction we'll maybe get to it next time around I do have a

01:01:11

I'm just gonna leave this thing up from soteriology 101 on who the sheep are and maybe we'll get to that on the next program but as I said in less than half an hour from now