June 15, 2015 ISI Radio Show with Pastor John Samson on “God’s Sovereignty in Election”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,

Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

Now here's our host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania and the rest of humanity on the planet earth. This is Chris Arnzen welcoming you to Iron Sharpens Iron and wishing you all a happy Monday on this 15th of June 2015.

Before I introduce my guest, I want to ask you all to offer a prayers for the family of a beloved sister in Christ who has blessed

Christendom for nearly 90 years, Elizabeth Elliott Gren, more popularly known as Elizabeth Elliott, died yesterday at 89.

Her first husband, Jim Elliott, as many of you may know, was martyred while bringing the gospel of Jesus Christ to the

Alca Indians. I believe that was in the 1950s and this was in eastern

Ecuador and Elizabeth returned to the very tribe that murdered her husband and many of them, if not all of them, came to Christ through her witness and testimony in evangelism and Elizabeth Elliott has written or had written many books including

Shadow of the Almighty and Through Gates of Splendor and so if you could just offer up prayers on behalf of the family who mourn her loss and of course our loss is heaven's game, but thank you very much for doing that for Iron Sharpens Iron on behalf of the

Elliott family and the Gren family. It is my honor and privilege to welcome back to Iron Sharpens Iron my friend

Pastor John Sampson who is the Kings Church in Peoria, Arizona and their website is kingschurchaz .com

and they also can be reached at effectualgrace .com and today we're going to be talking about 12 whatabouts answering common objections concerning God's sovereignty in election and it's so great to have you back on the program for the second time

John Sampson. Thank you so much for the invite and it's obviously a privilege to be back with you

Chris. Yes and I think I had you a little bit over modulated so I apologize to our audience

I had your your sound I think up too high. John first of all is it

King's Church or the King's Church? King's Church. King's Church and tell us something quickly about King's Church for those of you of our listeners who did not hear your interview the last time you were on Iron Sharpens Iron.

It's just in a startup phase. We're actually ordaining a second elder this coming

Sunday so we're in the fledgling stage but really looking to reach out to the community.

We would describe ourselves as Reformed Baptists and looking to really impact people around us with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

And those of our listeners who missed John's last interview with us you should look up the archives for it.

He did he gave I should say his remarkable testimony about being a word of faith pastor who was delivered from that heresy by God's grace and drawn into the doctrines of sovereign grace which he now eagerly and excitedly proclaims to all within an earshot either there in Arizona or through the electronic medium and we are so delighted to have him back.

Before we even go into a discussion about the specific title of the book 12

Whatabouts Answering Common Objections Concerning God's Sovereignty and Election I think it would be in order to define unconditional election the election that you're speaking of in the title of your book.

Yeah I think that's a good idea. The phrase unconditional election is part of a group of five doctrines that were first of all attacked by people in opposition to some of the things that were spoken about at the time of the

Reformation. There was the acrostic t -u -l -i -p t standing for total depravity u for unconditional election l for limited atonement i for irresistible grace and p for perseverance of the saints and that second one was unconditional election in that God does not require or look for any condition in man before he decides to choose them for salvation.

He does not base it on foreseen faith the idea being that God would look down the corridors of time and see those who would respond positively to the gospel and on the basis of what he foresees he chooses but that is not what we believe as reformed theologians or reformed people we would say no

God according to the scriptures chooses us for no other reason than his good pleasure.

And don't you think that in your interaction with those who reject the doctrines nicknamed

Calvinism we always have to remind people that's just in an historical nickname we don't attribute our faith or our beliefs or our doctrine to John Calvin and most people who call themselves

Calvinist today would dismiss a number of things that John Calvin believed and practiced but this is what the theological system has become to be nicknamed by as well as reformed theology and the doctrines of sovereign grace and also sometimes just the doctrines of grace but wouldn't you say that in your interactions with those who reject these teachings that this is really the issue that's at the root of all of their other objections whether they object to limited atonement or particular redemption or definite atonement they're really in the long run objecting to the fact that we believe that the bible teaches that God has a certain number of souls that he has pre -ordained before the foundations of the world to save and that he has allowed others who he has not chosen to save he has allowed them to perish in their own sins and therefore be worthy of damnation because he has not rescued them from that state nor regenerated them so if you could continue from that wouldn't you say that that is really even if it's unconsciously that's really the main objection that's being counteracting our our beliefs yes you've said a lot there all of which i would agree with and certainly one of the reasons i wrote the book was to try to answer the questions the 12 what about the 12 questions that people raise and as you say we don't actually meet john calvin for calvinism and i didn't actually mention anything of calvin in the book for that very reason i don't think we need to we just need to go back to jesus and the apostles and both old and new testament to see that and you're quite right unconditional election is something that should cause us to rejoice to realize it's god and god alone who saves rather than it was my ultimate decision that got me into the kingdom i had just the fortitude the guts to do it to make the right decision or else the insight to do it or else i was able to humble myself unlike others who heard the gospel although people don't like to go there in their thinking that's often the the case people don't like to think through the the issue there but if we're around the throne of god and we would just have a 10 minute break in the worship of god for a moment some would say you know the reason i'm here is because i made the right decision whereas my neighbor did not and then we would ask why did you were you more spiritually sensitive did you have more humility and we wouldn't like to go there in our thinking but the man and the woman who knows its grace that has saved them inevitably have to look at that issue what is it that caused my heart to fear it was grace that caused my heart to fear the amazing grace it's god's grace alone an unconditional election speaks of god's activity in saving sinners and it's based on the first of those five in that acrostic t the total depravity if we have any issue with the fact that god has to do it by himself because we're not just sick not just mortally sick but actually dead in trespasses and sins we have no heart towards god in any way at all we've actually got a heart of stone before god works on our heart and changes the disposition of our heart towards him a heart of stone does not choose to become a heart of flesh there's nothing in it that's the biblical imagery and it's in jesus that we see this in so many places john 3 john 6 john 10 where the the scriptures thunder out the message that unless the man is born again he cannot see the kingdom of god cannot enter the kingdom of god and that's god's activity and jesus makes that clear and unless we see that we're dead in sin then none of the other things in those acrostic makes any sense at all but if we understand we have no heart disposition towards god we could hear the gospel a hundred times and unless god the holy spirit awakens our soul brings us to life causes us to be born again only then can we see our need of christ only then can we desire him and only then will we enter the kingdom of god jesus made unless first a man is born again he cannot not have the 50 50 chance he cannot it's impossible for a non -born -again man to enter the kingdom of god and all of those things tie together the the deadness of man in sin it then requires that god the holy spirit would do what man cannot do for himself otherwise evangelism would be like trying to sell a toothpaste product in a graveyard uh before we go to some of your actual what about scenarios um or questions the um the issue seems to often be when you when you speak with people your average person even perhaps a pastor that you meet that rejects these teachings yeah the the one of the things that always comes up or nearly always comes up is the dreaded fear that people have of their loved ones who have not yet come to christ being not of the elect and what i have said to some of these people is first of all all christians no matter what doctrinal persuasion they may be adhering to whether it be reform theology arminian theology or what other any other kind of theology that they may be embracing all christians fear and have worries about people we love going to hell uh and the issue is when that day comes when they perish if you are still alive to witness it and they have not made no profession of faith that you are aware of would you rather believe that this was totally and completely in the hands of a sovereign god and that the judge of all the earth will do what is right or would you rather go to bed at night and be haunted by the fact that you could have done something to prevent that person from going to hell if you had only witnessed to them one more time if you had only gave them the gospel in a more articulate fashion if you were a better person if you were a better christian a better husband a better wife a better brother a brother sister a better employee or employer etc a better neighbor you could go on and on it's amazing to me that people would rather uh take on that responsibility themselves than realize that it was in the hands of an almighty god and to me it must be the the common grace of god and i know that my uh friends in the protestant reform denomination will be mad at me for saying that phrase but i believe in the common grace of god the common grace of god on people that that enables them to sleep at night there is really no logical reason an arminian can sleep well at night knowing that loved ones that he's had have perished without faith and if perhaps i rambled on too long but do you get the gist of what i'm saying i certainly do and it would frighten me to death as a preacher to think that i have the responsibility in the ultimate sense of seeing people come into the kingdom you know if i get a a line of my sermon wrong i get the words mixed up and someone rejects the message because of it i've got someone in hell because of my ineptitude rather than saying it is god is going to achieve what he is intending to achieve and he does it through means he does it through the foolishness of preaching it if you and i were god we would commission angels i think to do the gospel preaching because they would first of all preach the right message and they do it accurately and they do it perfectly and yet he uses these people who are fallible called preachers and he says in romans how shall they hear without a preacher he has ordained the use of these preachers and again from the preaching side of it if i thought that my words and how i communicated meant the difference between heaven and hell for the people that hurt me i wouldn't sleep between now and when i died i couldn't do it but again we we study as much as we can we try and polish our skills as much as we can we proclaim with as much sincerity as we can the gospel of jesus christ but in the end it's god who saves and my sheep jesus said will hear my voice he's confident of that he saves his people from their sins he does it he that began the good work in us he will perform it and these are the scriptures that bellow out the fact that it is god who does the saving otherwise as you rightly said we've got no reason to sleep at night and in fact there's no logical reason people aren't in mass numbers being driven mad over the prospect that people are in hell because they weren't adequate enough to be a representative representative of christ in their midst and of course that does not negate our duty our responsibility and our command to evangelize absolutely they go together in fact jesus made that clear even in certain passages where he says no one can come to me unless the father draws him and i'll raise him up on the last day and he makes that clear and then uh other places he says i thank you father that you've hidden these things that's the activity of god you've hidden these things from the wise and and revealed them to babes it was right in your sight to do so and in the next breath he says come to me all you who are weary and heavy laden it was uh only a few years ago i realized that those two quotes of jesus are in the same um context it's no problem for jesus to say god is sovereign in salvation he hides some truth in some ways or at least doesn't allow them to see it and yet he says come to me all who are weary and the message is come to him to christ come to christ in repentance and faith knowing in the back of our minds only god will uh do what we can't do and that is summons and cause people through an act of creation in the soul to bring someone from spiritual death to spiritual life but we go preach the gospel to everyone and as you absolutely and rightly said it is god's activity and that is our hope that i remember thinking through the gospel where uh the thief on the cross came to the messiah dying next to him and we have that articulated in the gospel there and i thought perhaps i know he would have had a mother perhaps his mother was a christian i've got no idea i'm just speculating but there was nothing absolutely nothing up to that point in time that would indicate that thief on the cross was god's elect but he was because he came to christ and jesus gave him the ultimate in assurance and today you'll be with me in paradise see uh who else had that hundred percent kind of absolute knowledge of their salvation before they died this thief on the cross did but there was nothing in the experience of this man i would say in the next eight seconds he's going to have a heart change and come to christ and it was the last day he lived and so election rather than being a detriment to our hope is actually the ground of our hope that god because he's laid it on our hearts to pray for our children to pray for our loved ones that's a good indication that the desire to even pray for that comes from him and god uh satisfies those prayer desires because he actually is the source of our wanting those things to happen so those two things go together prayer and evangelism preaching and evangelism they go together hand in hand both in the scripture and in church history it was actually the people that believed in sovereign election that started the entire missionary movement they said look we've read the scriptures he has sheep in every tribe in every tongue in every people group uh let's go out and round the sheep up and of course uh when people object to the system known as calvinism and they make the claim that we do not believe in evangelism and prayer for that matter for the lost all of that's uh slanderous uh even if if it's unconscious slander or misrepresentation people who aren't really aware of what we teach but in the same way that god uses the means of preaching and teaching and prayer to bring the lost to salvation even in their scenario of those who reject the doctrines of sovereign grace the question could be thrown back at them well why didn't god just create us all in heaven why did he choose to allow us to be born in sin why did he even permit adam and eve to fall and why did he use this means of christ the perfect lamb of god being sacrificed on the cross and raising from the dead that our sins may be atoned he used that as the means to bring us to eternal life whereas he could have if he chose to just created us in heaven perfect and happy and sinless couldn't he absolutely right and the question i ask of my armenian friends is do you believe that god has exhaustive or complete knowledge of the future and if they're in any way orthodox they say yes if they're not they would be open theists who say they're not sure about that because their future doesn't exist and it's not even known to god but that's heresy with a capital h but those who are in any way orthodox would say yes god knows the end from the beginning he's the alpha and the omega that's why we have things like prophecy in the bible he knows what the future is my second question then is how long has he known that and if they're in any way orthodox they would say he's always known that he's always known everything that's what omniscience means and i said well if you're rejecting the reformed theology message of divine election you for the sake of the fact that you don't like a god who chooses some but not all you have the exact same issue to deal with if god knows the end from the beginning because he would then know that there is a place called hell and that people will go there and that certain people will go there and he knows that infallibly there is no way that mr james dobson voice mckelly cock is not going to hell he knows that from all he knows that from all eternity and even from your perspective as a as an armenian you have to face the fact that with all of the wooing of god the drawing of god from the outside he knows that it's going to be fruitless in the and yet here's the point he still creates that man he still creates that man knowing he's going to hell and so the armenian if he's in any way orthodox has that same issue to deal with let me just if i can just give you a quote it takes about 45 seconds or so and it was really helpful the first time i heard this and i just found it online as i'm talking to you it's uh by a man called mark webb and he was teaching on these uh doctrines of sovereign grace and he says this i asked for questions from the class one lady in particular was quite troubled she said this is the most awful thing i've ever heard you make it sound as if god is intentionally turning away men and women who would be saved receiving only the elect i answered her in this thing you misunderstand the situation you're visualizing that god is standing at the door of heaven and men are thronging to get in the door and god is saying to various ones yes you may come but not you and you but not you etc the situation is hardly this rather god stands at the door of heaven with his arms outstretched inviting all to come yet all men without exception are running in the opposite direction towards hell as hard as they can go so god in election graciously reaches out and stops this one and that one and this one over here and that one over there and effectively draws them to himself by changing their hearts making them willing to come election keeps no one out of heaven who would otherwise have been there but it keeps a whole multitude of sinners out of hell who otherwise would have been there were it not for election heaven would be an empty place and hell would be bursting at the seams and then he says this this kind of response grounded is that i believe it is in scriptural truth puts an entirely different complexion on things if you perish in hell blame yourself as it is entirely your fault but if you should make it to heaven credit god but that is entirely his work to him alone belongs all praise and glory for salvation is all of grace from start to finish that's a quote that i think can be very helpful and it was to me when i first heard that well that's excellent that is really superb uh we're going to be going to a break right now uh before we go to the break i want to announce our email address if you have a question for john sampson on objections concerning god's sovereignty in election whether you agree with our guests or disagree with him or maybe you're just totally neutral because you're not sure uh give us a call we would love i'm sorry not a call give us an email give us an email because that's how we're taking questions give us an email at chris arnzen at gmail .com

c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com

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you can listen to iron sharpens iron anywhere in the world by speakerphone as long as you have a phone handy with you by dialing 401 -283 -6754 401 -283 -6754 and then when you're prompted press number three for christian radio we're going to be right back after these messages and seeking to answer more objections concerning god's sovereignty in election with pastor john sampson of king's church in peoria arizona don't go away we'll be right back i'm james white of alpha omega ministries the new american standard bible is perfect for daily reading or in -depth study used by pastors scholars and everyday readers the nasb is widely embraced and trusted as a literal and readable bible translation the nasb offers clarity and readability while maintaining high accuracy to the original languages which the nasb is known for the nasb is available in many editions like a topical reference bible researched and prepared by biblical scholars devoted to accuracy the new topical reference bible includes contemporary topics relevant to today's issues from compact giant print bibles find an nasb that fits your needs very affordably at nasbible .com

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tired of box store christianity of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship and how about the preaching perhaps you've begun to think that in -depth biblical exposition has vanished from long island well there's good news wading river baptist church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship experience featuring the systematic exposition of god's word and this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times 631 -929 -3512 or check out their website at wrbc .us

that's wrbc .us welcome back this is chris arns and if you've just tuned us in our guest today is john sampson who is the pastor of king's church in peoria arizona that's kingschurchaz .com

kingschurchaz .com and effectualgrace .com we are addressing the theme of his book 12 whatabouts answering common objections concerning god's sovereignty and election you can get this book at sovereign i'm sorry at solid -ground -books .com

solid -ground -books .com and also our other sponsors at the cumberland valley bible book service that's cv for cumberland valley bb for book s for service cvbbs .com

we thank them for helping to make iron sharpens iron possible and our email address once again for questions is chrisarnsen at gmail .com

chrisarnsen at gmail .com we do have an email with a question from susan in newville pennsylvania the puritans and others considered the doctrine of election as the comfortable doctrine meaning that it afforded them great solace and security what has brought about such disdain for this doctrine nowadays does it have anything to do with the social and economical existence that had made this doctrine so comforting uh for those centuries ago two or two those centuries ago if you could comment on that two -part question there i think there's always three big reasons why people reject reform theology and i think we need to get these and it's true in our generation as it was in the past so my answer is going to be what i would say whether we're talking between the time of puritans or in our own day number one would be a pagan understanding of the will we've grown up with the idea that we can do anything we like we can make any choice we like we can be anything we like we tell our kids some of us you know some of us do you can be anything you want to be but the fact is we might have a desire to jump up to the moon but we have a limitation uh physically that doesn't allow us to do that without uh the help of a rocket we can't get to the moon we might have lots of certain desires we might want to be the 100 meter uh champion in uh running but if our legs have had an injury or they don't work as well as others or even if we're very good at running we may not be the best ever or can even win the high school race let alone the olympics the will is something that the scripture talks about very very clearly and it reveals the fact that it's the overflow of the heart we decide based on our most pressing desire at the moment of choice and scripture says we have no desire for christ until god works and changes the disposition of our heart taking out the heart of stone putting in a heart of flesh so a lot could be said about that i do a whole chapter on the will in the book as as well as i can i think number two would be a sentimental but unscriptural concept of the love of god most of the people in our world today are not lying awake at night fearful of bumping into god if they die all they've heard if they've heard anything of god is the love of god and the bible is full of the revelation of the love of god on on almost every page we read of the love of god in that sense but the bible also speaks of the holiness of god and the justice of god and the majesty of god and because we have this we have this unscriptural not biblical idea that god loves everyone the exact same way we then say divine election cannot be true but then we need to go to the bible and say is that what the bible actually says that the bible speaks about the love of god but it also speaks about the hatred of god and in fact in one verse it would challenge the assumption that god loved everyone the same when in romans 9 it says jacob i loved he saw i hated and i've read books and i've read people doing all kinds of theological gymnastics and trampolines and everything else to try and get out of the fact that whatever way you look at that verse there was a different measure of love for the one twin in the womb rather than the other and it was not based on their performance it was not based on their works and that's where we get the idea of unconditional election romans 9 is the passage that deals with that so i say three big reasons a pagan understanding of the will a sentimental view of the love of god and the third uh concept is really the fact that people feel it's a betrayal to even look at this issue because either the person that led them to christ or their favorite bible teacher has said calvinism and reform theology is wrong don't even go there and so i have to say for many years i didn't study this issue uh i thought i knew what the bible says on this issue and i didn't study it and then i was challenged to do so after hearing rc sproll who came to scottsdale in the year 2000 and basically rocked my world because in four or five minutes answering a question about john 3 16 he showed me that my understanding was shallow and it sent me into rather than euphoria and excitement i was mortified by this and realized i need to do a whole lot more studying and here's what i found chris most are not prepared to do that they're not prepared to challenge their traditions and actually look at the text because they can quote the text they say why do i need to study it and so i went on a six to nine month uh crusade in my own office without anyone knowing just to kind of study cocoon and came out realizing the bible teaches what reform theology teaches and jesus taught this very very clearly so wherever we are in terms of our generation and time and history i think those three big objections rise to the level of stopping many people from even looking into this subject we do have a listener from fort myers florida we have mike who asked the question is the church that you pastor numbered within the southern baptist convention if so or if not what sort of encounters or difficulties with general baptists in this area of study or other non -reform christian denominations have you had well uh you can answer that question but i would like to say to mike in fort myers florida one thing that you can lead southern baptists to southern baptists who reject calvinism you lead them to the authors of uh great writings from the 19th century that were these authors were founders of the southern baptist convention who were thoroughly and completely calvinistic and in fact all of the founders of the southern baptist convention were five -point calvinists and in fact that's why there exists today an organization called the founders ministries which is a movement amongst the southern baptist convention led by reformed or sovereign grace believing or calvinist baptists but if you could pick up from there with the answer to mike's question yeah king's church is not in any way affiliated with the southern baptist convention we're actually just looking into what it is we want to be affiliated with this the arbk group which is a terrific group of uh reformed baptists and we're developing friendships with others but um we have no direct affiliation at this point but we're looking into that and the point you made is quite true the the bible that came over on the mayflower from europe was the geneva bible which were was the bible with uh reformed study notes in it that's our heritage here in the united states and if mike would like to look into the founders ministries which is the calvinistic group within the southern baptist convention go to founders .org

founders .org and there's everything that you need to know about the history the calvinist history of the southern baptist convention why don't you bring up now some of the whatabouts that you in your book yeah i think uh that's various scriptures and i mentioned one which was john 3 16 and although uh we can quote it it's one of the first verses that christians learn i'm not sure we fully understand it and i'm not sure we've taken the time to do so because we can quote it and people use that verse and there's a couple of other verses that come out very uh clearly along that line but and it takes us in that direction of uh well if god loves the world and he loves everybody in the world in the exact same way none of what you say can be true but again this scripture is very very clear if we actually look at it um some people say god can't elect certain ones to salvation because john 3 16 says god so loved the world that he gave his son so that whoever believes in christ would have eternal life and the idea then is god has done his part in offering the gift of salvation and his son and then just leaves it up to us to receive the gift through faith amen case closed sovereignty inflection can't be true and that's really a tradition and it's one that i held to so many a year uh because in spite of the fact that many people when they quote the verse emphasize that word whoever in that text it doesn't actually describe or discuss who does or who does not have the ability to believe the text actually simply says all who do a believe in him will not be perish but will have c everlasting life if we ask the question what does this text tell us about who will believe or who can believe the answer is absolutely nothing we could ask actually ask what does john 3 16 tell us about the color of chairs in the sanctuary for our churches and the answer would be absolutely nothing it's not discussed there uh i'm being facetious but i'm trying to make a point john 3 16 tells us absolutely nothing about who it is who will believe it just tells us those who do so will not perish but will have everlasting life however if you want to know john's view on who can exercise faith we go back just a few verses in the same chapter john 3 where he says unless a man is born again he cannot enter the kingdom of god that's the same john chapter 3 so that's just in a nutshell looking at the text and again john uses the word world in at least 10 different ways in that gospel it doesn't always mean absolutely everybody on the planet just like when we use the word all in scripture when we see it in scripture it doesn't always mean everybody it's it's the same in english today um a teacher might get into in front of her students and say are we all here now she's not asking are all 7 billion people on the planet in this room there's a context and the context is a teacher in a classroom and every time we see the word all we need to ask what is the context in which that word is given and it opens up our eyes many many times when we ask that question and we need to ask that question rather than assume the word all always means all because many times it doesn't mean absolutely everybody on the planet right and the the verse that is often thrown up is uh revelation 22 17 and the spirit of the bride say come and let him that heareth say come and let him that is a thirst come and whosoever will let him take the water of life freely the question is who are those that will or want to that's the issue and the the answer to that question is in acts 13 48 those who are ordained unto eternal life believed the ordaining unto eternal life comes before the believing and of course you know the passage the great passage in john chapter 10 when jesus says i tell you but you do not believe the works i do in my father's name testify about me but you do not believe because you are not my sheep yeah people don't become sheep by believing they believe because they're already sheep is that not right very true very true and in fact we could stop and pause and ask people to stop and pause and read john chapter 10 he exactly said it exactly as you've quoted it he did not say or get the concept look you're not sheep now but you can choose to be sheep if you believe he did not say that he said the reason hear ye hear ye hear ye why and he's looking them in the face the reason why you don't believe is now what would we expect jesus to answer because of your heart heart because of this because of that all of which may be true but the reason he says you don't believe is because you're not part of the flock you're not part of the sheepfold you're not part of the group that my father gave me in eternity and in john 6 he says all not 58 percent or 22 percent on a bad day but all 100 all that the father gives me will come to me amazing amen and we're going to be going to our final break if you have any questions now is your opportunity and the uh the email address that you must use to email us questions for john sampson is chris arnzen at gmail .com

chris arnzen at gmail .com this is your last opportunity this is a live broadcast so send those emails now and we'll be right back after these messages linbrook baptist church on 225 earl avenue in linbrook long island is teaching god's timeless truths in the 21st century our church is far more than a sunday worship service it's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant it's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement it's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing we're a diverse family of all ages enthusiastically serving our lord jesus christ in fellowship play and together hi i'm pastor bob waldeman and i invite you to come and join us here at linbrook baptist church and see all that a church can be call linbrook baptist at 516 -599 -9402 that's 516 -599 -9402 or visit linbrookbaptist .org

that's linbrookbaptist .org introducing 10 31 sermon jams sermon jams but now for the good news that sounds like sweet music in the hell -bound sinner's ears especially if you're like me and you know that you don't need romans 3 to remind you of how wicked you are if you would like to learn more about 1031 sermon jams visit us at our website at 1031sermonjams .com

or follow us on twitter or facebook it's about god and his glory and the gospel is about welcome back this is chris arnes and if you've just tuned us in we are in our last quarter hour of iron sharpens iron with our guest pastor john sampson of king's church of peoria arizona we are discussing his 12 whatabouts answering common objections concerning god's sovereignty and election and we're definitely going to have to have pastor john back because i think we've only addressed two of the ones specifically in his book so far but that's good we'd love to have you keep coming back until you've exhausted the book completely but of course we urge people to buy it anyway and one of the things that i wanted to bring up which is a very common thing i don't know if it's in your book or not when i mentioned earlier that you can present uh back to the the um the the critic of calvinism who says well why do you evangelize and why do you pray for people uh that are lost and of course we we respond because it's a command and that's and it's also the means god uses and uh when i said we can retort that why did jesus christ have to die on the cross to save sinners why couldn't have god just created us perfect and sinless in heaven and obviously he did not choose or intend or ordain to do that he intended to use the means of the death of his son on the cross and the resurrection of his son to bring his uh elect to eternal life he used that as it means and the question i have or the retort that i hear often is well god could not truly experience the love of his children and they could not truly experience his love without free will because free will is required as a part of the net of the definition of genuine authentic love now i'm not sure where they get this definition these even uh people who would join us in arm and arm defending biblical inerrancy and a literal interpretation of the scriptures when taken in context but this definition of love is nowhere in the scriptures no and what i would say to such a person is show me a verse in your bible that tells you that man's will is free and i've asked that question i'm still waiting for the verse because it's an assumed thing that because god says repent that we then have the power to do that in fact we don't we need grace to repent uh it's the big old uh dispute between augustine and pelagius and uh pelagius had the idea that because god has demanded or commanded something then we don't need grace to do it we can just do it or else god is unjust to ask us to do it but in our scriptures as we read our bibles it says seek the lord while he may be found that's a command but romans 3 11 says there is none who seek god so anyone who now is seeking god is a result of god changing the natural disposition of our hearts so that we now want what we didn't want before and as unsaved or unregenerate people to use the technical biblical language we don't want god we don't want god the same way a thief is not looking for a policeman he's not looking to find a policeman as he's robbing a store and we're not looking to find god because we've been born doa dead on arrival with the same nature that adam had after the fall which was to run and hide from god not to go towards him so i would actually challenge the question to say show me where the bible teaches that our wills are free what we need is not free will but wills that are made free so that we now want what we didn't want before that jesus made it clear he who sins is a slave of sin we're in bondage because of our hostile nature towards god we're not just well in fact we're not we're not just sick not just mortally sick we're actually dead towards god we have no interest in god we might be interested in religion we might be interested in soothing our conscious conscience and we look at certain people and we say that man is really seeking why why is that well four years ago he was into buddhism now he's into confucianism and this other man he's into mormonism and he's really seeking false religion as you and i would understand it is not a seeking after god it's actually a running from god only when we come to the biblical christ has god been at work to draw us to himself and every other kind of falsehood is a running and a hiding from god people don't want to hear that that's the basic truth and free will is a myth and it might be a shock for people to even hear that that's your answer free will is a myth yeah we can choose and we will choose to go to the mall today or go to the sports game today or stay at home or we might choose to wear a white shirt a red shirt or no shirt we can choose all kinds of things but the one thing we will not and ever do outside of the grace of god is choose jesus christ because there's nothing in us that wants that we don't want god till god works in us and so that's the response i i make and people say but i if that's true i would never love a god like that and i say i know i get it that's what the bible teaches you will not love the biblical god and one of the things that was a real shock to my system was to read romans nine and realize that at the end of time when i stand before him it's the god of not the romans nine that i'm going to have to stand before not some made up one of my thinking and romans 8 8 clearly says that those who are in the flesh cannot please god and if believing in god and repenting are good things that please god how on earth could we do them in the flesh unless we are first regenerate and born again the other thing that comes up a lot uh is the accusation that the calvinistic system turns men into robots and i said to a roman catholic friend a very dear friend of mine years ago who made that accusation i said well why does our system make men into robots and he said well uh you have to be uh possessing free will in order to not be a robot and free will is defined by the ability to choose either good or evil to accept christ or reject christ and i said to him when is your greatest goal in life to go to heaven for eternity and he said absolutely i said will you be able to sin in heaven he said absolutely not and i said so your greatest goal in life is to be a robot for eternity because if you cannot have the freedom of will to reject christ and choose to sin in heaven i guess that means you're a robot doesn't it so if you could just comment on the robot accusation further it's interesting because i would have gone to the exact same thing you did and said heaven would mean we're all robots because we're uh what is removed from us from us is the sin nature that wants sin does that mean that we're left with left to be in a robotic state i'd answer the question with a question so that they would actually look at their assumptions from where they're coming from and again i challenge them to say show us where free will is talked about in the way you're understanding it we've got a pagan idea of the will and we look at the bible through that lens but if we take the glasses off we realize man is not only a sinner because of his sin he sins because he's a sinner and uh we've got to definitely have you back on because i know that there are a lot of whatabouts that we haven't covered but give us another one that's specifically in your book about what about uh which is an objection to god's sovereignty in election oh if i would just uh jump on one i i would re -emphasize that uh prayer and evangelism and perhaps uh talk about that the fact that it is our hope as we pray a biblical hope that the god who has put it on our hearts to pray for our lost loved ones is the one who will answer that prayer in history we could think of the man i mentioned just a few minutes ago augustine his mother monica was heartbroken because of this youngster of his of hers who was just living this horrendously uh horrible lifestyle totally immoral and yet was in tears praying praying praying for the salvation of her son and she went to see the bishop and the advice i'm using a paraphrase of what he said was it's a it's a thing that god would not have elected such a such a boy who is the heart cry of a mother is unthinkable and again that's a very loose paraphrase but it was a great encouragement to her the fact that god had put it on her heart to pray for the son and then one day while he was in the garden uh the the story of his conversion is that and he wrote about it was that he heard perhaps over the wall in another garden two children playing and they were singing a song uh and they were singing a refrain that he'd never heard before tola lege which is latin for take up and read and he thought that was a word from god even though it was from from the lips of these children playing next door and he read in romans 14 verses that were instantly used by god to convert him when it says not in licentiousness not in not in immorality but in righteousness i'm in romans chapter 14 and on the basis of him reading that word he was converted there in the garden and his life was changed he became not augustine the immoral man of the city but augustine who was undoubtedly the greatest theologian of the church in the first thousand years if not throughout all of time although there'd be things we might want to correct he didn't have an augustine to go before him he was really a pioneer but the point of all that was monica's prayers were used by god as a means to achieve god's ends which was the salvation of one of his elect ones well we do have a final uh statement rather than question from ted in tuscaloosa alabama who writes i finally came to the acceptance of grace precisely so that i could become a robot danger free will robinson which is obviously a lost in space joke so uh ted and tuscaloosa we ask of you next time please ask us a serious question but uh and going back to the robot it is interesting that even god himself would be a robot if we use the definition of having the freedom of will to either do good or evil uh which obviously would violate that god's very nature were he to sin but thank you so much uh pastor john sampson of king's church in peoria arizona his website is kingschurchaz .com

and effectualgrace .com we look forward to having you back very soon to discuss more whatabouts in the 12 whatabouts answering common objections concerning god's sovereignty and election go to solid -ground -books .com

solid -ground -books .com or cvbbs .com cvbbs .com