Have You Not Read - S1:E7

Welcome to have you not read a podcast seeking to answer questions from the text of Scripture for the honor of Christ in the edification of the

Saints I'm Dylan and with me Michael Andrew Before we dig into our topic we humbly ask for you to rate review and share the podcast.

Thank you and today we're gonna start out with a very pertinent question that Apparently the congregation has been wanting answered for some time now and we just haven't got to is decaf coffee heresy

It's decaf coffee heresy well, I would say that if coffee were its own standard and Coffee was its own thing

Okay, then then decaf Doesn't make any sense like why why did the

Why did the? original brewers of coffee the creators of coffee

Want to drink the coffee? Because it was a stimulant so decaf.

I mean I have a I have a mug from Babylon B that says Decaf condemned as heresy So I think that may have spawned the question because I flashed that mug a lot of different places and I've often made coffee here

At church, but I refuse to make decaf even at night, you know, it's like double strength the whole way

I don't you know, I don't want to make decaf then But my own personal opinion is that when it comes to decaf?

I consider it Ichabod The glory has departed slap that above the door and walk away.

Yeah absolutely So analogous it would it be in?

Would it be in apocryphal territory? Is that where we find decaf coffee or apocryphal?

Yeah I don't know. Is it like purgatory? Yeah, it's kind of like something that shows like one of those magical made -up things that should never have come about but we have it

Baruch's blend. Oh nice. I would think that decaf I think is more serious than that.

I think the decaf coffee To coffee if we're gonna be doing one of those SAT comparisons.

Okay, I think Decaf coffee to coffee is like open theism to orthodoxy.

Okay It's like, you know, you still have the notion of God without any of the godness. It's a hollow shell.

Yeah. Yeah Yeah, I would think that I would think that people like a Clark Pinnock would drink decaf coffee

And feel like he's and if he doesn't he's just being inconsistent. Yeah Well, I'm glad we answered that and we got that out a little way before we go on to our

Next question about forgiveness, which is yet again multifaceted and long and thorough.

So I wonder who asked that question David yeah, probably. Yeah We'll see.

We don't know. We don't know. We're not sure. We're not supposed to be anonymous. It's anonymous. We'll leave it at that All right, the question is how should a

Christian view forgiveness biblically I grew up being taught to always forgive not really considering whether or not the one who might have sinned against you asked for it

I think these days that might be called cathartic forgiveness, but in the past year or so I've also

Heard taught that true forgiveness has to involve two parties the one who has sinned and the one sinned against Are either of these ideas of forgiveness or both or something totally different taught in the

Bible? so in trying to make sense of forgiveness

There is of course the instructions that we have in Scripture and let you know if we go to Matthew chapter 6

When we consider the model prayer Jesus teaching his disciples how to pray we have this insertion about Forgiving praying to the

Lord and praying to God and saying forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors forgive us our

Trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us depending on your translation but then when you get past the amen of the model prayer in verse 14 of Matthew chapter 6

You we read this For if you forgive men their Trespasses your

Heavenly Father will also Forgive you, but if you do not forgive men their trespasses neither will your father forgive your trespasses

So there's a lot packed in there But we see if we can just see from the very basic reading of that text how important forgiveness is so none of us

Who follow Jesus would want to be unforgiving? we wouldn't want to have an attitude that was

Holding on to bitterness and refusing to forgive the question being asked is when do we have the opportunity to forgive the moment that someone sins against us we have is that when we have the opportunity and thus the need to go ahead and forgive because if we follow

Jesus we should be forgiving others or The question is Do we only have the opportunity to forgive someone?

After they have come to us and confess that sin and asked for our forgiveness when they are

Seeking reconciliation. So the question so in one sense you could say well obviously both

You know, that would be kind of the broad the broad look Or you have a situation where somebody comes and asks for forgiveness.

They confess their sins They've offended you they've wronged you they recognize this according to the Word of God and so on and they ask you for your forgiveness and often the byline is oh

There's nothing. Well, I've already forgiven you Right, you know, I forgave you a long time ago. Yeah, and that kind of thing.

Now the question is is that biblical and Dylan Andrew have you all thought about that question at all before we voiced it tonight?

How are we forgiven before God like right, you know like Do we are we forgiven when we ask or are we forgiven beforehand for the sins that we've committed against him?

Right. So now we're getting in kind of into some of the Questions about the order of salvation or the order of saluters

The question is are we saved before we believe right and these are getting into some of the questions about the sovereignty of God and election and and so on I think the natural reading of Scripture is that that we come into the forgiveness of God and we and we are forgiven of God when we repent of our sins by the grace of God and By the same grace of God believing upon Christ and trusting him as our

Savior And that this is when we are forgiven the means of our forgiveness

The basis of our forgiveness has already been established in Christ and his death upon the cross but the relationship between a holy immutable eternal

God and our Sinful back and forth frail selves that that restoration of that relationship occurs in conversion in the new birth and the in the union together with Christ by grace through faith

So I would say that we receive forgiveness from God When we ask for it by faith

It would I think that's that's how it would appear to to me when we read different passage Whether whether it's

Peter or whether it's Paul or whether it's Jesus and his teachings That's what it looks like to me.

Yeah, and he's always faithful to forgive when we ask we're told that as well Yes, and think about a particular passage fairly fairly common in Scripture memory

First John 1 9 if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness when we come to the

Lord when we come to our maker and we homologous confess say the same word that he says about our sin.

I Wronged you you're holy. I'm not you're righteous. I'm not

I sinned you were right That's what confession involves We confess our sins that there we find forgiveness to see confession involves necessarily both repentance and belief

Right. I I see the horridness of the sin Because I'm taking God's point of view on it and I'm taking

God's point of view on it because I believe his word So in that there's the forgiveness.

There's the hope of cleansing When we come to the Lord and we come and we can confess we agree with him about it

So I think that's a great question. How are we forgiven Dylan because we begin with how does

God forgive us? Because the text is saying consider how God has forgiven you.

This is how you should forgive others, right? Is there a difference between? patience or synonyms like forbearance and forgiveness

Certainly, yes There all day long

God said he's Held out his arms to a stiff -necked and rebellious people showing long -suffering and patience forbearance to people

Not forgiven but continuing in their rebellion not even seeking

Reconciliation perhaps even telling themselves they don't need it right and when the relationship is breached because of Transgression because the covenant has been broken and those who have done the breaking consider themselves righteous and They have valid excuses or they don't need any kind of restoration

Then it's really hard self sledding for the prophet. He's trying to tell them Hey, you need to repent, you know, and and they're saying peace peace

When there is no peace so I think beginning with that is the question and then the practicalities of course are

And this was what the question I had because I remember when I was Trying to make sense of what do you do about when people hurt you?

Well people sin against you and this is a very serious thing and it can if it's not handled, right? We read about a root of bitterness

We read about all all kinds of things happening in the life of a believer if we don't handle these things, right?

so I When reading the scriptures saw these

Expressions if you don't forgive others You're not someone who is forgiven, right?

I mean this this bitterness evidence is that you don't understand grace because you haven't experienced it and Begin think about you know forgiveness versus bitterness and so on and I I had that perspective of Forgiving everyone everything that that's the call of the

Christian and I saw that there was a contrast between that perspective and God's Perspective where he doesn't forgive everybody everything

He just doesn't there's all sorts of people that he has not and will not forgive

And that's not because he's an ungracious God. He's far more gracious than any of us But the fact of the matter is there are these promises that there and warnings about a broken relationship covenant -breaking sins and transgressions and people have a reprobate mind

Justifying themselves and praising themselves and going straight to hell Which is terrible So I was trying to make sense of why is it that God doesn't forgive everyone, but he wants me to Right.

I'm trying to make sense of that and I did my best and I even even wrote like an eight part

Series for the local newspaper when we're in Tennessee about about this perspective of Christian forgiveness and so on And I held that pretty strong until I guess it was by a couple years ago and I made mention of this in a lesson that I was teaching here at the church and someone who had been a pastor and is was rooted in the word came to me and began to talk with me about whether or not that was biblical and My main hang -up was but God said if we don't forgive then

He says yes, of course, and he said, you know, but if that means if somebody comes to you and says

I Did I did you wrong? I I before the face of God I did it wrong.

I Would I don't want to continue in this broken relationship, would you please forgive me and at that point if you don't forgive them

That's what Jesus is talking about Holding on to that bitterness and refusing to forgive somebody who asks you that's

What Jesus is talking about and I said, well, how do you supposed to then you're supposed to treat these people who have Spitefully used you and so on and so forth.

He says well, that's the category called love Right, you love your enemy Right so that if somebody lies about me steals from me

Harms my family and so on I And and they don't have anything to do with me

Because they're hiding in the darkness and they don't want the light to expose their deeds. Am I then to say all is forgiven?

Well to say that would imply that that person is on good terms with me

But the facts of the matter are they're not on good terms with me and they can't be

Until things are truly reconciled through forgiveness and there is certainly hope of forgiveness in Christ Because all of the all justice is handled either at the cross of Christ or at the coming of Christ So I can leave it there.

I don't take my own revenge, right? I can leave that to the Lord But to say that all is forgiven when the relationship is totally shattered these

These two things put together. Well, they shouldn't be put together Right. That's a false equivocation.

I didn't know that I was trying to give expression to What the

Bible calls love love your enemies And if they come to you and ask you for forgiveness, well then forgive them but that's that's different and that's where that's

Where I have been trying to grow and understanding What what do you do is someone who asks for forgiveness, but you don't believe they've wronged you

But their conscience is just so pricked that they believe they have done you wrong And you can even walk them through the scenario of everything that's happened and walk through the biblical case of hey

You didn't do anything wrong in this situation And they just have to have it. What do you do in those situations?

Well, you know It's not really hard to forgive someone you're not upset with you know, obviously they're

Their conscience is an issue of conscience, right? You know Romans 14 something like that They their conscience is pricked where yours is not well, then in bearing with one another and accepting one another in Christ, then you you take them and their concern

Seriously as to their regard Even though that's not your conviction. Yeah, and certainly extend forgiveness

There may be the need for further discussion Maybe it's a conviction that is keeping them from following Christ.

Well, right for instance Perhaps they use the telephone to call you on Sunday and they believe that they broke the

Sabbath there might be the need to disciple there

Okay, but certainly forgive Yeah, I don't know that ever happened to either one of you somebody comes like, you know

Asking for forgiveness for something you had no idea what's going on yeah, I've had that happen a couple of times to me and I think just by default to kind of Appease them naturally.

I just said yeah, you know, I forgive you and then thinking like nothing nothing wrong happened Sure, yeah, did you feel very gregarious and way

I kind of felt like I Gave something that they didn't need or like I was I kind of lied

I almost felt like I was lying that they needed forgiveness, you know by giving it to him, but kind of feels like somebody is

Returning to you $20. They never took from you. Yes. Yeah. Yeah It's kind of hard to figure out how to accept that.

I'll take that found Andrew do you have anything to add?

Maybe you can talk to you a little bit about the order of Forgiveness in Matthew 18

I'll just skip to the very end of What's commonly called the wicked servant that Jesus says?

So my Heavenly Father also will do to you If each of you from his heart does not forgive his brother his trespasses.

So this is the revocation of Forgiveness possibly and The order now is this person not forgiven because they chose not to forgive or is it a demonstration of?

their heart like Jesus speaks about yeah, so when you when you read the story of the wicked servant the story

Intentionally does not make sense That's his point

That's Jesus's point a lot of you know, when you read the parables of Jesus they make sense, right?

You know guy goes out and sows some seed and the stuff grows and this and that the other happens and it makes sense but when you read this parable and The man was forgiven the the equivalent of six million days wages and Then he goes and chokes a man over a hundred days wages

That doesn't make sense that doesn't compute and everybody in listening to Jesus's story

Knows that doesn't compute like that for nobody would who would do that?

Who was forgiven six million days wages who's gonna go out and Jesus says, of course, that's the point

That's the point you if you're bitter and angry

Taking vengeance into your own hands, which is a form of eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil

You're determining what is right and just and for yourself and you're going after these people

Doing your own vengeance Then you don't know the forgiveness of God You don't know the grace of God This is this is clear evidence that you that you do not have the forgiveness of God and God condemns your your bitterness and your vengeance

So, I mean, this is a this is a wonderful Very Timely Relevant parable for our day wherein if somebody will simply

Sit back and consider What they have been forgiven and how are they going to hold on?

to these these these bitter agendas Concerning Either the dead or the living either the personal or the systemic how are they going to go on these war paths of Personal vendettas of making things right when

When we're faced with the reality of the justice of God and the grace of God I mean these things put things in proper perspective

You bet I think that people that do such things have an idea of justice that does not extend past the end of this life

Yeah, we're all justice must be meted out now Right because there's nothing no justice coming for those who escape it yes, exactly and there's without a trust in the sovereignty of God and a

Hope of the resurrection and that includes the hope of the Day of Judgment where everything is set, right?

Without that hope people want to resurrect the dead themselves and hold

Judgment Day themselves and this of course is an attempt to replace the uniqueness of Christ an

Antichrist version of Judgment thinking it'll satiate their their thirst for bloodlust or bitterness and it and it's just not gonna

Fulfill it at all because like you said, that's a that's a something that that justice has to be beyond the grave and You cannot dole that out yourself yes, and you can see how pointless it is and how it doesn't work and People aren't satisfied with it.

And there's it really is a kind of despairing hopelessness about the whole endeavor And when we're looking at the wicked servant, are we reading something that is?

more of a euphemism for like the corporate guilt that Israel has before God as His servant and during that time period or is this is this more being taught to individuals since since Jesus is is in Judea Preaching and teaching and a lot of times preaching and teaching against Those sins that are that are most prevalent in his day and time period.

Yeah, I'm I'm seeing it as a And you know he in God's forbearance he

Allowed Israel hundreds of years. Sure. So six million days wages to me

You know like that that seems like the type of debt that Israel has built up that they should have

They should have been making those wages over those hundreds of years, but since they have the debt now

And they in their own land are not forgiving debts In fact, they're they're extorting a lot of the people outside Judea and Galilee Yeah, you notice that Jesus when he's answering

Peter's question how often should I forgive my brother if he offends me? in Peter of course

He extends the rabbinical suggestion of three times to seven times and maybe seven times is it you know?

He's kind of catching on to some of the patterns of Christ you've heard it said but I say to you

So Peter's trying that out, you know, he's walking on water there a little bit You know tripping towards what he's wanting to get and then

Jesus Jesus says I not not seven times The rendering is 77 fold

Okay, and that is a direct quote from Genesis 4 where in Lamech says to his wives

Ada and Zilla Listen to my voice. I have I Have killed a man

Right. I've killed a man for wounding me or you know a young man for insulting me basically is the idea and he says if Cain be avenged sevenfold, we remember that God put a mark on Cain as a stemming of the tide of violence

He says if Cain be avenged sevenfold then Lamech avenged 77 fold so we see the way of the godless pagan

One who does not call upon the name of the Lord like this sentence of Seth Their their approach is what vengeance 77 fold you hit me with a hammer

I'll hit you with a truck. Okay, so that's that whole mentality. So Jesus takes up that language and he

Totally spins it on its head. I say to you forgiveness 77 fold Not waiting, you know not putting a limit on forgiveness and then saying okay now the vengeance can start right

But forgiveness 77 fold and that's a shocking statement. So then he says now the kingdom of heaven is like, okay

So now he's gonna talk about the kingdom of heaven, which again is The kingdom is the stone which crashes into the the fourth section of the statue in Daniel 2 right so into the

Roman Empire comes crashing a stone uncut by human hands that grows and to be a mountain that fills the whole earth

Here comes the kingdom of heaven the one that cannot be shaken and you want to be a part of this kingdom

You want to be a part of this kingdom Jews? You want to be a part of this kingdom all you and Judea Who are harboring a great deal of animosity and anger and bitterness towards a lot of people right the lack of forgiveness was obvious in the desire for the

Pharisees and scribes How do they handle a problem? Kill him right get the let's get

Herod to kill him or let's let's get the Romans to kill him Let's do something. Let's let's listen snare him.

Let's get the people all mad at him so that they'll kill him But let's just get rid of this guy Though that kind of mentality shows up later in the history of Israel Also, there's a lot of anger against the

Romans right this occupying force and Jesus is saying things like well If you know if someone comes and says, you know carry my pack one mile carry it, too

Right and Jesus begins talking about how you treat your oppressors not the way that you've been taught

How can I stab him in the back, you know, so Jesus says, you know, this is the kingdom of heaven is like this

Like you get into the kingdom of heaven by grace you get into the kingdom of heaven by being forgiven and being forgivers

Kingdom of heaven is is totally of grace You didn't get into God's kingdom because you were born a

Jew You get into God's kingdom by God's unmerited favor his mercy and his forgiveness

And so why am I telling you forgive other 77 fold because that is the way of the kingdom

That's kingdom life. And even if you forgive somebody 77 times straight, you don't even getting close to how much you've been forgiven

And so that's what he's getting at and then he get at the end of the chapter at that. They're all important last verse

Okay, and so Jesus is identifying If you're not forgiving others if you're not walking in the way of forgiveness toward others, that means that you're not in the kingdom

You're not in the kingdom because you're not a part of that that entire realm of grace later on in the history of Judea the gospel being preached for decades after Jesus's resurrection and ascension

During the Roman Jewish civil war Especially after the

Saints evacuated Jerusalem and fled to Pella Judea was a wash in blood not simply because the

Roman legions were advancing Judea was a wash in blood because there was a three -way

Civil war going on and the Jews were killing each other Stealing each other's food supplies starving each other out and when they were bottled up in Jerusalem those three factions

Refused to let anybody out of Jerusalem long before the Romans built their own wall to keep everybody in and in contrast to the

You hurt me. I'll kill you mentality on clear display in the last vestiges of the covenant breakers

We have the kingdom of heaven in which Forgiveness is a key feature

So I think I would say that that's how I would read it in the larger context. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense

I just it just brought up kind of a a Corporate mindset to me because of how big the analogy was

I'm like, I got you We got six million. We got to be talking about a nation here or Because I mean that's that's like that's a country's size of wealth, right?

well, it is and to to you know The story is built upon the idea that the the king is like an emperor and he has various rulers in charge of regions and They're responsible to make sure that the taxes of the region are

Given to the king the tribute must be paid to the king and if it's not paid to the king and maybe squandered by This steward

Then he owes the whole thing It's like the story in the Dawn Treader and C .s.

Lewis Caspian lands and Manages to confront the governor of the

Lone Islands Gumpus, which is a great is a great name for a functionary and and the tribute of the

Lone Islands have not been paid to the realm to the crown of Narnia for quite some time and Well today's

Judgment Day the king has come and where's the tribute and Caspian reminds

Gumpus that the law states that if the tribute hasn't been paid it comes out of the governor's personal money supply and And Gumpus is you know?

It's possible can't be done, you know, so that and we just read that as a family. So it came to mind

Yeah, I like it. We need we're going through or we're gonna eventually be going through The the series of Narnia series as well and It's gonna be me and Heather first, but we'll we'll take the kids along with it as well

So pulling out nuggets like that's always nice but that's actually a good segue into What we should have done to begin with but what are we reading right now?

Oh, yeah, we have any suggestions recommendations. Oh So I've been talking with my wife recently about how

I'm gonna call YouTube something different. I'm gonna call it the library of Alexandria.

I have One day it seems like it's rapidly accumulating the world's

It's just soaking up world's wisdom on every single topic. Yeah So I would say

I've been reading on Bushcrafting Mechanic, you know auto mechanic stuff around the house, you know flooring how to do finish carpentry

You name it. It's there pick up a book press play That's that's what

I would also recommend it to They have policies that are changing to limit the wisdom that's on the platform

But you can still find pieces of knowledge Yeah, so I'm reading I'm reading

According to plan by Graham Goldsworthy. It's a book that I've read before It is out of all the books that Graham Goldsworthy is written.

Who was he's a professor. He's a he's still alive, but he would taught at Moore Theological College in Sydney, Australia and he's an

Anglican and has a lot of published works on biblical theology and this is one of his primers he's

After decades of writing and so on and so forth. He's really brought together. I think one of his clearest expressions for anybody interested in seeing the harmony of all the scriptures caught up in in the light of Christ so I really have tried to acquire and read everything by Graham Goldsworthy as An exercise and there you know,

I found things that I've disagreed with him about but I Greatly have benefited from his his work.

So I'm reading that in preparation for Something we call Timothy school here, which is gonna start up in February because we're gonna be reading through that book together and As a companion volume to that I've been reading

Kingdom through covenant by Gentry and Wellum, which is their shorter volume

That they then what they had written earlier about New Covenant theology and I borrowed this volume from David Casson So I'm reading through that and I can't fold the little corners of the pages down and I can't underline anything

So it's been miserable I want to give it back to him in good condition but I've been reading that and these are not necessarily new themes, but they are themes that I come back to again and again and again because they are helpful for me and my teaching and preaching and discipleship and Being a father and so on so That's good right now

I Am zipping through all of Woodhouse's Jeeves novels

So I've already read on read them on my Kindle But I'm listening to all of them at 2 .5

on Audible and they're all Included with a subscription to Audible right now for everybody out there who is a

Woodhouse fan. Can you actually appreciate the Absurd metaphors at two and a half speed.

Absolutely. Okay. Yep. I know you it doesn't seem like you can but It it you get used to it your ear adjust to it

It's just like I the analogy that I would have is making the jump from high school to college baseball Where you might have one guy that throws 90 miles an hour in high school

On an entire in an entire County and now everybody from the all the surrounding counties throws 90 miles an hour

And that's that's the team you're on now So that's kind of how you adjust my follow -up question is when you listen to audio books at two and a half speed and you're

Driving does this does this have an impact on your the driving?

Yeah, because Not that I can tell I haven't I haven't no one's phoned in with any gripes, that's okay

Okay, but I kind of rubbed off the phone number on the back that says how's my driving? So we're just we just change one digit.

Yeah, fine We really wouldn't know if anybody griped or not, but I'm going through that right now I'm also going through desire deceit and the novel by Rene Girard and I'm looking forward to getting into a book called

Gertl Escher Bach It's a huge volume. It is at the same time period a writer an artist and obviously the musician

Bach But it's something that was recommended to me online and It's gonna be

Interesting how all three of these men were pursuers of truth beauty and goodness and and their respective disciplines and how

They were kind of working not in tandem necessarily together on on things, but it was

Supposedly very interesting how their work Complemented each other during the same time period And I think it's something we can only

Credit to Providence that we we have it and we have it recorded for us to kind of up to examine and understand

But yeah, I'm looking forward to getting to that because I got that for Christmas and there's only they don't it's not in print anymore So my mom my mom found it online and got it for me for Christmas and I was like, yeah

So, but I would recommend all the Woodhouse stuff on audible it's

It's good stuff and they they've got great readers for all of his his stuff, but we'll go ahead and move on now to our last question in the main segment and It's on suffering

How should a Christian respond to personal suffering when that suffering does not appear to make any sense now when reading this

I Think there's two ways. You might be able to read this

Or at least that's the way I'm seeing it Their suffering doesn't make any sense as in it seems pointless maybe or You don't understand why they're suffering or why they're telling you they're suffering at least that's that's what

The way I'm reading it. What what does it sound like to you guys though? I would say that Suffering is more

Difficult to bear When You don't understand it

If you for instance it if you went out and Played baseball in college and had a great career but you

Injured your elbow Okay from just overuse, you know hyperx injury elbow, whatever

And then you had to go through the process of physical therapy, maybe a surgery and recovery and so on there's suffering there

But you understand it. Okay, so it's understandable What often makes suffering?

So hard to bear is when it is unclear why this is going on and This tends to make the burden

Exponentially more weighty You know and again you could think of the kind of suffering where I Am going to diet and exercise and go to bed early deny myself some pleasures and get up early in the morning and we're gonna

You know ride herd on my my physical desires and Buffet my body to make it useful and etc.

There's gonna be some suffering involved there But that is something where you understand what's going on It's the it's the kind that you don't understand that That makes it, you know all the more difficult

So I think doesn't I think that's where the questioner is coming from. Okay? There may be a different Nuance to it.

Is there a different take on it? I When I first read it, I thought they were talking about like somebody you see that's suffering and And You don't think that they should feel like they're suffering that's just what that's that's what

I had in my mind But I I think it's closer to what you're saying. Yeah, though whenever you read it

It sounded more like to me that there was some nameless Faceless antagonist

That you can't quite put your finger on You know medical condition would be a good way of putting this, you know a sort of suffering

That doesn't necessarily seem purposeful or meaningful why well why

Why me? Those types of things come to my mind. I think you're right.

I think you're closer to that. Yeah so This is

I think this is a question that I've often Thought about and I think the sinful instinct

For me in my in my past has been one of Risking nothing as much as possible to do or to do the best to manage any kind of potential problem suffering

So I don't want to cause suffering to myself or to others and so on and so forth. So that was a very sinful attitude a lack of trust in the sovereignty of God and even even a

Not very not resting very well in the justification that is there in Christ and There is no avoiding suffering

You there's just there's no avoiding suffering and even if even if you personally never experience

The the perils of financial Poverty or physical suffering or Broken relationships or you know consent so on and so forth and you know

The church you go to is just solid steady on and nothing ever bad happens and so on you're not gonna just not gonna avoid suffering because your your brothers and sisters in Christ are gonna suffer and when part of the body suffers everyone feels it and Your family members are gonna suffer even close family members are gonna suffer and then you're gonna feel that as well and there's going to be suffering and What I would say a majority of the time

We're trying to assign reasons to it. That's one of the first things we try to do

We're trying to identify it, you know, I mean, we're all Adams Sons here, so we see something.

We don't know what it is. We want to name it. I want to know Well, what why did that happen? I want to give a reason for it.

I need an explanation for it I want to see the cause and effect so that why so that I can maybe better manage the situation

Cut off whatever is causing the suffering and then avoid it in the future Right.

We're trying to identify it so that we can manage it. We're trying to identify it so we can get rid of it We're trying to take control of the situation now taking responsibility for things and Living in wisdom and forsaking folly and all of that that's that's good.

That's good Sometimes suffering happens and you You just don't know why

I've experienced a lot of that in the last few years I don't have any idea why

I don't know why And I've become more keenly aware of Others suffering in similar ways a lot of focus gets put on to me and my family because I'm a pastor but Name me any family in this church and I can tell you a list of their suffering

I won't know at all. I won't know at all. Okay, I Don't but I I will know

I will be able to at least five things About everybody so be everybody's suffering and a lot of that it's not gonna have a particular reason for it and I've often been in Contention with my good and perfect Heavenly Father about that Why Come on More This is unreasonable

Right there a lot a lot of complaining gets going but it doesn't take long for a little suffering that has been handled perfectly by our

The father of lights with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow He has handled the stuff.

He has handled the child has come through his hands to me and I'm suffering And I want to complain

It doesn't take much to expose where I'm at and I May not be able to explain why?

there's suffering in either my life or With my wife and my children and so why

I don't know I can't explain it But I do know that God does his work through it this is something that I was thinking about in the hospital this last hospitalization in our family and this is a this was

You know, this was a thought that I had Trials make me to know my own inconsistencies in the light of God's faithfulness

I learned what a novice I am in prayer and what an expert God is in grace and These things

I would never learn in the comforts of an undisrupted routine. So that's not an explanation of why but that is

A testimony of what good not not the only good but some of the good that God does through suffering in our lives

About suffering And the question of why My mind goes to my mother passed away in 2020

September of 2020. She was diagnosed with liver cancer in In the fall of 2018

After she passed I would find myself thinking

You know like why this happened to her and then one day when

I was driving I was having similar thoughts and My my mind was corrected my mom wasn't

She wasn't sinless What do you mean? She didn't deserve it.

So in I found a helpful passage of Scripture 1st

Peter chapter 2 or Peter Exhorts or clarifies

That it's not of any credit for you to suffer for The bad things that you've done

But when you do good and suffer And if you take it patiently this is

Commendable before God and that very thing is

What we were called for and then

Peter shows us Christ the one who did no wrong where seemingly senseless suffering finds its focal point in history

Clearly shown in Christ the Redeemer Now going back to thinking about my mom

I I knew of something that happened very early in her life that many people did not know about She had an abortion and she kept that hidden for a long time and I was thinking about Delivering that during her

During the eulogy at her funeral Just to show

That these people that you think are you know, like why this why this happened to them?

My mom was a murderer she got what she deserved and it's hard to say that but She was a believer

That murderers with Christ Praise the Lord and God is just and the justifier of the ungodly of the one who has faith in Jesus Jesus Christ came to save sinners and We think about me about death

As a as an enemy that is yet to be

Brought fully under the feet of Christ Death is the last enemy and it is it is

Still something that causes us suffering as our loved ones die as we face our own death And yet we don't have to fear death

We are no longer enslaved to the one who held The fear of death as a power over us.

We have been delivered from the strong man that Jesus Christ has Much like Benaiah gone down to the strong man and snatched his own weapon from his hand and defeated him with his own weapon and Having been raised from the dead to die.

No more. Jesus Christ is the firstfruits of the resurrection We have our hope in him

So that as we suffer we remember our captain who has blazed the trail

From suffering to glory for us and that we are not walking on any path that he is not first trod that he has he has he has blazed that trail and Isaiah 53 verses 4 and 5

Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows Yet we esteemed him stricken

Smitten by God and afflicted but he was wounded for our transgressions. He was bruised for our iniquities

The chastisement of our for our peace was upon him and by his stripes.

We are healed not one aspect of our suffering as believers in Christ is outside of the grace of God and the atoning work of Jesus Christ that everything about our suffering in Christ is

Redeemed for his glory and That ultimately he uses it for good and we are so much like little children

We are just infants We are toddlers

We don't get it How often do our little ones they just don't get it.

They don't understand why they have to be given a shot or a bath or They have to get you know

They have to we have to do something to them that causes them discomfort or maybe they're in pain But we're doing and they don't get it they don't get it and all and We can't explain it to them

We there's no there's no amount of us talking to them that's ever going to help them understand

Clearly what is going on and why it is? But we're doing things where they're good and they don't get it and I try to remember that when

I pray And I've very often and it's been like this last this last week and there in this last month

I have often felt like an infant in my prayers crying out to the

Heavenly Father Not to pile on here But I received word this afternoon that a good friend of mine had passed away

Recently he had Contracted kovat on Christmas Eve and Ended up going to the hospital for it.

He was in his 80s and was a multiple sclerosis patient from the time he was in his 40s and he went to church with us at Barry Road for The the entire time that I was there and he'd been there because the assisted living center or the government housing center

That was down the street. He'd lived there for quite some time. So he'd been going to Barry Road for a long time

He Contracted got pneumonia ended up getting a urinary tract infection because of their

Catheter that they they put in and didn't didn't handle correctly But they brought him home on hospice on Thursday and he quickly took a turn in two days and Heather and I and the boys went to go see him on Saturday night and I'm very thankful that God preserved him to the point to where I could show him my children because Since Killian's been born.

I had not given I had not had the chance to or or the

The ease I would say the ease of my conscience to bring the boys around Because I don't know what they could get in that place and I don't know what they could give him right in his condition.

So these the last couple days was I would say a gift for us to have a chance to go go see him one last time and If there was ever a man that I thought

In my own life that I've met To ask that question, you know the why it would have been him, but he had told me he had told me that and confided in me that there are there are the reasons why like you said and He he was never

Yeah, at least openly saying that that to me And when whenever he would start to feel sorry for himself and I could see it he was always reminded of Scripture and this is one thing this man did because he

Didn't have time to do anything else but learn he stayed lived most of the rest of his life in his room and in that church and so he would sit there and learn and read

Scripture and whenever I would come to take care of him on certain nights because his

Government health care was falling short. We would have debates over eschatology and soteriology

But he was extremely precious and He was kind to me and my family all the way through and appreciative of Everything that we could do for him and like you say when you see brothers and sisters suffering

That is a form of it and the weight That comes with it By I get what you're saying with that But I know

With him the last few days that His focus was on the suffering ending and that death that last enemy he was going to experience and Experience no more and he that's something he had always looked forward to To have a whole body again and to walk with his

Lord and so I I Praise the

Lord. That's where he's at now No, and seeing him where he was that Bailey able to stay awake and say hi or bye the last time was

Something I had never personally experienced before but I Rest in the assurance that we have been given the justification that We have and that we've known all the your mother had and That we all get to experience and I praise the

Lord for that. Okay, so on to lighter things

This week in witchcraft Yeah, so witchcraft Mmm, it was always ample examples.

I think probably the hot topic at this week is Bill c4 Having passed in Canada with unanimous consent

From the Conservative Party along with the Liberals and it was the Conservative Party who brought it forward

To in Bill c4 is so explosively named Simply because it was used to be

Bill c6 But in the transition from one year to the next and the election that they had in Canada to retain

Prime Minister Trudeau they They changed what was

Bill c6 and they strengthened it as Bill c4 and they passed it with the end of unanimous consent and it was celebrated much like the

The 40 week abortion bill in New York was celebrated some years ago

What it says basically is this that? No one in Canada is allowed to give or procure any kind of counseling that would

Bring somebody who is, you know identifying as a homosexual

Lesbian bisexual Transgender Whatever the LBGTQIA plus whatever that nobody among the alphabet people can receive or nobody should be offering and nobody should be trying to Connect anybody of the alphabet people with anybody else who would tell them that they need to change

So is this so this is specifically against conversion therapy as they call it so in in 1st

Corinthians Chapter 6 and Yes in verse 9, you know where I'm going with this.

Oh, yeah, we have this very hope -filled passage of scripture

Says do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God do not be deceived Neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor homosexuals nor sodomites nor thieves nor covetous nor drunkards nor violers nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God and here's the hope and such were some of you but You were washed but you were sanctified

But you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our

God and so today in Canada if a pastor or a

Christian counselor if a church member if a parent of a child

Were to follow through on the hope of this passage and call a

Homosexual sodomite or some someone engaging in Sexual perversion and identifying themselves as through sexual perversion if somebody were to say to them

You don't have to stay that way There's forgiveness in Christ. There's cleansing You could you can leave all that behind by the grace of God and you can enter into the kingdom of God and be saved

If you do that, it's a five -year prison sentence five -year prison sentence and And The reasoning given for that in Bill c4 is

That such a notion that somebody should change from being bisexual or Homosexual or so on to something else like according to the standard of work of God's Word what

Sex is designed for what sexuality actually looks like according to God's Word The reason why this is outlawed is because it is a it is based on harmful myths

Right. It is anti -human So this is where we're getting into the witchcraft. Okay where it's dehumanizing to counsel people to repent of these sins

That's what the Parliamentarians and the government officials of a

Canada said when in fact God is the one who is defined

Humanity In the image of God he made the male and female he created them and humanity is defined by the maker of humanity

Mankind and what it means to be a man or a woman who created an image of God that's been defined by God but here are here here are

Shall we say a bunch of little horns on the on the? on the the head of the king of the

Canadian state beast and they have risen up together in Harmonious chorus and they are singing pagan hymns and they have declared

That Humanity To be humane to be to to uphold

What human really is is to to celebrate and protect? every

Every form currently that is acceptable in sexual perversion Nothing has been said yet about bestiality and pedophilia and so on but there's always that plus on the alphabet soup

It's coming. Yeah, it's coming. So the The the witchcraft at work here is where they have

Taken what is good and called it evil and they've taken what is evil and they've called it good All right, so that's that's witchcraft using words to try to alter reality just by just by using words and so that's that's an example that that many people are

Having to deal with today In Canada, you also have another layer of witchcraft there with the idea that you know, the

Bible tells us about deceitful desires Yet we have here the reinforcement that whatever desire someone has is good

And to tell them that that is inappropriate or wrong sinful

Using that word. Oh No, you can't say that That's inhumane

No, it's inhumane to let people act like beasts Doing instinct

With whatever deceitful desire they have I'm glad you brought it up as like a beast to like you're highlighting the the corporate function of How the government kind of usually works all in tandem together and it's like a lot of little like one big

Dragon making little baby dragons out of everybody else so they can go and be tyrannical back in their own provinces wherever they're at and in Canada because that's what you're gonna get you're gonna get like a

Stasi type of police situation where we're gonna start Literally policing language because that's what we have here.

Yeah and policing language. That is that is witchcraft. It's bent It's a it's a state craft

And they're gonna go out and they're gonna rat out neighbors brothers sisters Husbands and wives

But it's it's also interesting how beasts always Seek out and provoke the king that ends up slaying them as well.

Yeah, if I were gonna use Like imagery from Daniel, I'd say that there is a massive, you know elk

Beast kind of thing that would be represent the state of Canada and there's the horns are going every antlers, you know

And it's our Nuna's. Yeah, and they're just it's all intertwined and And perverse full of perversions

It's twisted and gnarled and disgusting and full of abominations and beside it is growing an equally gnarled maple tree which would be the

The perverted Canadian Church and the SAP is poisonous because They are not offering opposition

To to the Beast They are trying they're they're casting shade.

They're giving shade to the Beast The Beast would not be too uncomfortable in the hot Sun and this twisted gnarled maple tree is casting shade for them and is in opposition to Those who are calling it out as sin and and desiring that the bright light of God's truth be

Be a shown upon the situation to demonstrate what this is. This is disgusting This is this is disastrous

This is tyranny but so many in so many in the

Canadian Church Are not now there are heroes who definitely standing firm in the faith, but there are so many who are

Continuing to give protective shade to the the perversion And it's difficult to watch yeah, it is and it's uh, you know, it's it's a it's a warning

Just like in Ezekiel Judah was told You know

Israel's Israel's disaster was to be your warning. You should have paid attention

Then you know and of course, you know Israel was the northern kingdom and Judah was North and south, you know, it's it's probably symbolic really of Canada and right in the in the u .s

They're in in Ezekiel. Ezekiel is really about our day our day, right? We can at least use it as a point of prayer to be reminded

You know if there is a kingdom to the north of you doing this Yeah, pray for repentance in your own land.

There you go Well looks like we've ate up our time for today But we hope you'll join us again when we meet to answer common questions and objections with have you not read?