Matt Slick Live: February 11, 2025

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The following program is recorded content created by The Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live!

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Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at calm .org.

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When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live! For answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877 -207 -2276.

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Here's Matt Slick. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the show. It is me, Matt Slick.

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You're listening to Matt Slick Live. Hope you all have a good time listening to the show today. We have nobody waiting right now.

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But if you want to give me a call, the number is 877 -207 -2276.

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And if you want, you give me an email. That's easy to do. Just send it to info at calm .org,

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info at calm .org, c -a -r -m dot o -r -g.

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And put the subject line, radio comment, radio question. Either one of those and we'll get to you and stuff like that.

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All right. All right. All right. Making sure everything's going, working well here. That's good.

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And moving stuff. So, things are moving forward with the CARM Intergalactic Headquarters.

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We're moving forward. Lots of new stuff hopefully in the next few months coming forward. Tell you more about that later.

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And let's see. We can get some emails. We can get some stuff. One of the things I'm working on lately, you know,

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I enjoy studying the Bible. I really do. And I like learning about particular issues, particular issues that have ramifications in other theological areas.

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One of them is in the issue of propitiatory sacrifice.

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And so I've been collecting information and I'm ready to do a compilation of some of the things

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I'm seeing, learning, a propitiatory sacrifice. Now, what is it and why is it important?

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What it is, is the sacrifice that turns away wrath. It does not make wrath possible dependent on something else.

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Here's a concept I want to introduce. So, when the high priest on Yom Kippur would go into the temple once a year and he would sprinkle blood, excuse me, on the mercy seat, which was the lid of the

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Ark of the Covenant. Now, in order to get into that room, the Holy of Holies, he had to go be ceremonially cleaned, had to offer a sacrifice for himself and his family.

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That's interesting, and his family, because he's the federal head, the family needs to be in him cleansed.

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Really interesting stuff. And so he would offer that sacrifice and he would be ceremonially cleaned and then he would go into the holy place and then around the veil, going to the

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Holy of Holies, and he'd take the blood that he'd sacrificed and he would sprinkle it on the mercy seat and he'd leave.

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Real simple. Why that sacrifice? Why that sacrifice?

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It's because that particular sacrifice was alluding to the work of Christ on the cross so that by this sacrifice that people's sins were propitiated.

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Now, this is really interesting because I want to introduce a concept and I want to refute a heresy that is very common in the

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Protestant churches, a false teaching that is very common in the New Testament teaching.

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It doesn't mean they're not Christians, but I'll explain in a second. When the high priest would go into the temple and he would offer the blood on the mercy seat, that was a propitiatory sacrifice, a declaration right there by the act.

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And what it would do is propitiate Israel. The propitiatory sacrifice was offered to God and it would remove the wrath of God from Israel for that year.

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That's interesting because this is a concept that is extremely important in biblical theology, not just a little.

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Let me explain and then we'll get to the colors and stuff. Now, when the high priest would go into the temple and he would do the sacrifice and he would leave, the sins of the people of Israel covenantally were removed.

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They were propitiated. I had to go through this on a yearly basis because ultimately in Hebrews 9 and 10, the sacrifice of bulls and things like that can't really remove sin.

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So this was a typological representation. We'll get into that. What's important about a propitiatory sacrifice is what it's dependent upon for its efficacy.

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The dependence or the efficacy is dependent upon what the priest does, not what the

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Israelis did. It depends on the priestly work, not on what the

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Israelites would do. I'm going to say this again. The efficacy, the effectiveness of that sacrifice on Yom Kippur, the propitiatory sacrifice, was efficacious by the act of it being done.

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It was not dependent on the action of anybody else. So if an

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Israelite was sick for two or three days and out of it, the propitiatory sacrifice covered his sin or the sins of Israel, his covenantally with Israel, and it would cover him and everybody else in the nation of Israel.

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It doesn't mean they're saved, but it means that functionally the sins are propitiated.

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If someone had rejected that, it did not invalidate the propitiatory sacrifice.

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If someone was unaware of it, it did not invalidate the propitiatory sacrifice.

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And this is what's critical right here. The propitiatory sacrifice's efficacy did not depend on the person believing it or receiving it.

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That's the critical part. The efficacy or the power of the propitiatory sacrifice does not depend on what the person who's covered does.

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What a person does doesn't make that sacrifice efficacious. The reason

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I'm saying this is because a lot of people in Protestantism believe that they activate the propitiatory sacrifice of Christ.

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Romans 3 .25, 1 John 2 .2, 1 John 4 .10, these are verses that talk about Jesus being a propitiatory sacrifice.

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And they'll say that I activate the propitiation of Christ, the sacrifice of Christ, by what

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I do, by my faith. I appropriate it to myself and make it valid and efficacious based on what

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I do. That is the false teaching in a lot of Protestant churches today.

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They'll say that the blood of Christ removes sin or pays for sin, but it's not valid until you apply it to yourself.

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That is heresy. That's false teaching. It's very common in churches today.

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But it's common because people don't study what they need to in this area.

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Now, the ramifications of this we'll talk about a little bit here. So the propitiatory sacrifice of the high priest was not made powerful by him or the believer.

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The high priest did this work, and it was powerful because of God's proclamation and authority given to it, knowing the place of Christ.

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He is the high priest, and he was the one who offered himself as the high priest's sacrifice.

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And that sacrifice of Christ made the atonement valid, and it accomplished at the cross what it was supposed to accomplish.

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When you go to Colossians 2 .14, it says Jesus, talk about Jesus, having canceled, canceled, removed, blotted out the certificate of debt, the handwriting of ordinances that was hostile to us.

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He took it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. It does not say that Jesus paid for your sin debt right there, and you have to apply it to yourself to make it work.

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That's what churches all across America are teaching. You validate the work of Christ.

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You apply it to yourself by your faith. You're the one who has to appropriate it. He's just sitting there waiting for you and your wisdom.

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This is a false teaching. Now, I know a lot of people are hearing me say this. Man, you just step on toes too much.

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Well, don't bring your toes if you're going to listen. The issue here is what does the Word of God say?

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What does it say? Now, if Christ is the one who actually accomplished what he did and removed the wrath of God, if he's a propitiatory sacrifice and he removed the wrath, it's not based upon if you do something, you receive it, then it becomes propitiatorily effective.

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That would be like the Old Testament to say that some Jew out in the field working, that the propitiatory sacrifice of the high priest on Yom Kippur, that he made it effective when he applied it to himself by believing it.

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How noble -minded of himself. How wonderful of himself to be able to apply God's work to himself by his wisdom and his faith.

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What happens when we believe is we're justified when we believe. This makes perfect sense.

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If Christ canceled the sin debt at the cross, Galatians 2 .14, then it's canceled not based on what you do.

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Who's it canceled for? The elect. And we, the elect, the believers, when we believe because God grants that we have faith,

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Leviticus 1 .29, that's when we're justified. That's when we're justified. Romans 5 .1,

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Romans 3 .28, Romans 4 .5, Galatians 2 .16, 2 .21. This says this.

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This is what I've been learning and focusing on. And the reason I'm doing that is because, hold on, is because I'm dealing with the

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Roman Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox. What they teach, what the

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Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Catholic churches teach, is that in their priesthood, their priesthood, their repeated sacrifices of the

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Mass, of the Eucharist, on a weekly basis, is what will continue to cleanse you.

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But you have to go and participate in the ceremony to make it valid and applicable to you.

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That's false doctrine. They have a model of their priesthood that's modeled after the

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Old Testament style of priesthood, because there is no Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox priesthood in the

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New Testament. There's no priesthood in the New Testament where you have a single individual offering repeated sacrifices on the behalf of people in a church structure where that person has all authority to be able to do this and guards the tabernacle, because in the

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Catholic Church it's a tabernacle. I'm still learning this about the Eastern Orthodox Church. And so by the priest's authority, he then provides a propitiatory sacrifice that is only efficacious when you participate in it.

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You have to take the Eucharist, and by doing that, that's when it's made real to you, and that's when the propitiatory sacrifice, so to speak, becomes effective.

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So both in the EO, Eastern Orthodox, and the RC, Roman Catholic, and a lot of Protestant churches, they reduce the efficacy of the propitiatory sacrifice by making it dependent in part on what it is the recipient does, and that by their faith and or ceremonially participating in this, then it's made effective.

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That is not what the Bible teaches. We're justified by faith.

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Romans 3 .9 says we have a righteousness that's not our own, and righteousness is not based on a law, but that which comes from God.

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And having therefore been justified by faith, Romans 5 .1, to the one who does not work but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness.

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That's what justification is. This occurs when you believe, but the blood of Christ is the propitiatory sacrifice,

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Leviticus 17 .11, Hebrews 9 .22. This is the propitiatory sacrifice, and it canceled the sin debt at the cross,

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Colossians 2 .14. God is the one who's wise. We need to repent of our doctrines and ideas that states that we and our wisdom and our faith activate what

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God has already accomplished, and that we and our wisdom and our faith apply it to ourselves. That's not what's going on biblically.

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It's Matt Slick Live! Taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276

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Here's Matt Slick. Hey everybody, welcome to the show. If you want to give me a call, the number's easy, 877 -207 -2276.

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Let's get to Rusty from North Carolina. Rusty, welcome, you're on the air. Rusty, hello.

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Hope you can hear him okay. There was an issue there. Give him a little bit more time and see what happens.

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Rusty? Hello? Okay, there you go. All right, man. You're on the air. Hey. Hey.

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Hey. Okay, I'm sorry. Okay, so I have a question. So in the

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Bible, do it say why they mention Satan as the morning star and Jesus as the bright and morning star?

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Morning star. Go ahead. Morning star is often a reference to angels.

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So Satan is called the morning star in Isaiah 14. You go to Job 38 .7, the morning stars sang together and did stuff like this.

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So they're talking about the angelic realm. But Jesus is called the bright and morning star.

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So it's differentiated from that because he's just a different phrase. So it's similar.

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The morning star, of course, is that star, the first star you see or the last star you see in the morning.

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I forget how it officially goes. Because the last star is the brightest. And that is the idea that it's a guide and a light.

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And so that's why it's bright and morning star. But of Lucifer, just morning star because he is one of the angels in the angelic realm.

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Wow, yes, yes. And I have one more question. So can you be taught how to speak in tongues?

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Or do you have to be given that as a gift from God? Yeah, it can be given as a gift.

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You don't just teach it. Like say, got to buy a Honda. Then you say it really fast, got to buy a

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Honda. No, you speak it in tongues and teach you. When the Holy Spirit comes upon you, you move in the gift that he grants you, that he works upon you.

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If speaking in tongues is there, you got to understand the context. Generally speaking, in Acts 2, the speaking in tongues was for the glorification of God, the edification of the body so people could hear the gospel and the truth of God's word being mentioned.

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And in that context, it's the common languages that were heard and understood by the people around them. In 1

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Corinthians 14, it talks about tongues also. But in the previous chapter, it says if I speak with tongues of angels.

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So it looks like the angels have tongues. So is it possible to speak in a language you don't know?

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Yes, I have no problem with that whatsoever. Even for today, I'm a Calvinist who believes in the continuation of the charismatic gifts.

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But I don't believe in this, get up in front of the church, speak in tongues and stupidity like that.

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What the church is supposed to do is if someone comes up and speaks in a tongue, that means is it a heavenly language or is it a known language that someone who's speaking it doesn't know.

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I can't speak Mandarin. But if I were to start speaking Mandarin in a church service,

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I believe that could happen. But if I get up to do it again or someone else does and there's no interpretation, then just sit down and remain silent.

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Because we're going to do this for edification of the body of Christ. So a lot of what happens in charismatic circles is they'll say, oh, you've got to speak in tongues, the

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Baptist, but the Holy Ghost. You've got to speak in tongues. If you don't speak in tongues, you're not saved. And it's a bunch of hooey, okay?

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It's not true. Yes, yes. You know, I was in a bookstore the other day. So I've seen a book.

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It's a Bible. It's a apologetic Bible.

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What type of Bible is that? That's a good Bible? Yeah, it's apologetics is the branch of Christian theology that deals with the defense of the faith and the establishment of the faith.

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And it answers questions of all sorts. So I do apologetics. I consider myself a

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Christian apologist. And so an apologetics Bible, and I've seen it. I think I forgot who produced it.

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I would say, yeah, it looks like it's good stuff. It's not going to have commentaries like a commentary

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Bible might. It's going to have stuff about the resurrection is known by this and that and that, and the

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Trinity is this and that. Here's how we find it. It gives you more defenses of things as well as the establishment.

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Wow. So do you think that would be a good book for me to receive and get? Sure, I think it would be good.

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But, you know, not only that, but, yeah, you know, that's one of the books I think is good to have on your library, apologetics

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Bible and a good single -volume commentary and particular commentaries.

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And I'd say have three Bibles, three translations. Okay. And because we got to learn.

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Okay. Okay. Right. Right. Right. Right. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome.

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Oh, I already have been. God bless. Thanks a lot. All right.

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All right. Now let's get to Russ. I mean, it's going to be Alberto from Georgia. Alberto, welcome.

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You're on the air. Yeah. Good evening. My question is, you know, when Israel became a nation in 1948, right, when

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Jesus said the nations to see this will not pass, earth is fulfilled.

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So how many years makes a generation? That's a debated issue because a generation is often said to be 40 years.

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It seems to be a kind of a generic number. On the other hand, a generation occurs when someone has a child.

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So you could have a 20 -year -old who's having a child. Now it's another generation. So theoretically, you could have children every 20 years, and the generations would be 20 years old or 20 years span.

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A lot of times 40 is used in the Bible to designate numbers, ideas, divisions, concepts, and things like that.

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So because we have the generation of the people in the wilderness, that was 40 years.

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Then you can also have a generation being that this generation will not pass away before.

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So let's say that someone was born in the year 2000, on January 1st, 2000, the year 2000.

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Well, that means right now that such a person would be 25 years old. Well, if the Bible prophecy says this generation will not pass away, what if that person lives to be 110 years old?

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Then one possibility of an understanding of a generation is, when it says in that case he won't pass away, maybe it means how the last one's still alive at that time when it began, which could be a lot more than 40 years.

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So it's just a bit of a – it's just different. There's no exact number, okay?

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Okay. I've got another quick question for you. Okay. Sure. I said I thought because I read something like that, that's why

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I asked him to make sure. Okay, I've got another quick question. I don't know if you saw it. You see that lady on TV, where she's a

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Peruvian lady priest. She was addressing to Trump about, you know, to make decisions.

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So the lesbian and gay community and transgender, they're fearful for their lives.

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Yeah, I heard about it. I've seen it. Uh -huh. Yeah, but okay. To me, the cure for that is to repent.

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And the Bible says the perfect love will cast all fear. Fear God and not man. So the gay and lesbian and transgender community, what we need to do is repent from their sins and what?

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That's right. Then the perfect love of God will cast all fear. And as I say, fear God and not man. That's the cure, not

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Trump. Yeah, but they agreed, but a lot of them are giving over to their sin.

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If you read Romans 1, verses 18 through, I think, 32, the end of the chapter, you'll see that God gives a judgment, pronounces a judgment on people who are in their perverse sexual immorality.

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And it's clearly spoken out there. So a lot of times they're in that, and they have a judgment on them, and they won't believe.

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There's a break, buddy. We've got to go, okay? All right, man. Okay, God bless. Okay, God bless,

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Alberto. Thanks a lot. Hey, we'll be right back. We'll get to Jermaine and a question about enthusiasm.

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We'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276.

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Here's Matt Slick. All right, buddy. Welcome back to the show.

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And I'm just reading on atonement out of Leviticus 16. And wow,

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I just picked up stuff I never even knew before. Really interesting stuff. Let's get to Jermaine from California. Jermaine, welcome.

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You're on the air. Oh, hey, Matt. Hey, man. How are you doing, buddy? I'm doing pretty good.

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You know, so we've got one verse in Ecclesiastes 9, talks about the dead not knowing what they're doing.

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Right. And I just wanted to cross -reference that with Revelation. I don't know if it's appropriate or not, but, you know, they're asking how long until you bring judgment to avenge those whose blood has been shed.

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And then Matthew 17, I believe it is, where Moses and Elijah make an appearance.

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The dead don't know what the living are doing. Do those verses kind of point to some of the dead knowing what the living are doing?

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Because if Moses and Elijah are no longer on the earth, yet they're coming to visit the

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Lord, it would seem like they know what's going on. So I just wanted to hear you develop it a little bit.

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All right. So the issue of Ecclesiastes is its context. And we find the context in the beginning of the chapter.

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So let's look at this. The words of the preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem.

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Vanity of vanities, says the preacher. Vanity of vanities, all is vanity. What advantage does a man have in all his work, which he does under the sun?

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A generation goes, a generation comes, remains forever. The sun rises, the sun sets.

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Blowing from the south, the wind does to the north. And so there you go. Now, the phrase under the sun occurs numerous times in Ecclesiastes.

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So the idea here is that what's going on is that which is under the sun.

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It's from the perspective of being on earth. You see a dead body, it knows nothing.

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It's just gone. That's what is going on. That's what's saying there. That's what a lot of people miss, okay, in Ecclesiastes 9 .5.

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That's point one. So in Matthew 17, the transfiguration, this refutes annihilationism.

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It refutes, well, it refutes annihilationism. I'll say this so far. It refutes soul sleep, the idea that people are unconscious after death.

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Now, the other verse you mentioned in Revelation, which I wasn't sure which one was that. What Revelation verse was that?

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That was, I think it was, oh, I just had it. Oh, sorry about that.

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It's all right. Oh, I just canceled it out, but. That's okay. 6,

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Revelation 6. Okay, and. I think it was 6 .10. All right, so 6 .10.

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Incredibly loud voice saying, How long, O Lord, will you refrain in judging our blood? Now, the difficulty with Revelation, not that this is impossible.

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The difficulty is that it is a lot of symbolism. So somebody could make the case that this is just hyperbole and poetry and things like this.

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I don't agree with that idea, with this. Apparently, the people are alive in death, after death, which certainly seems to be the case and supported by other scriptures.

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You know, Luke 16, 19 through 31. 2 Corinthians 5, 8. 2 Corinthians 11, or 12, verses 2 through 4.

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Various things that the Bible talks about. So, yeah, they're just saying, it looks like the martyrs, because it says, avenging our blood.

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So it looks like those are the ones who are killed, because they're the martyrs. And so they're crying out in heaven, when are you going to take care of this, to the

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Lord? And so, because they've been murdered unrighteously. And so they're saying, when's it going to be done?

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So it doesn't mean they don't know stuff. It doesn't mean they know everything. A lot of times Catholics want to say, see, they know our prayers.

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And stuff like that. So I don't see any problem.

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We just look at each one in its context. And the dead have certain levels of knowledge, but it doesn't say how much.

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And that's about it. They're aware of themselves after death. Okay. All right.

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Appreciate it. Thank you, sir. Okay. All right. That help? Yeah, it helped a lot.

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Just keeping context in mind. Context is always so important.

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I talk to Catholics and Eastern Orthodox, and we'll be talking about interpretation of a verse. And here's an example.

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It's the word, until, which is heos. And Jesus says, or it says in Matthew 1 .25,

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it said that Joseph kept a virgin until Jesus was born.

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Well, what does the word until mean? And they'll take a word from one place, until, over to another place, different context, and say over there it means continued action.

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So that's what it could mean over here in Matthew 1 .25. And so I say to them, look,

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I'm going to introduce you to a word that's a four -letter word, but you've got to bear with me. It's a four -letter word.

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The word is context. And I'm trying to get them to understand something.

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Words mean what they mean in context. And this is context is such an important thing, because we want to often find similarities between phrases in different places in the

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Bible and then blump them together and then say this is what it means. And I say to people, don't do that.

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It might be accurate to what you're concluding, but we can't just say that that's what it is. We have to look at each contextual meaning of words and the idea and see if they can transfer from one place to another place as if they're related.

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That kind of thing, if that makes sense. Okay? Yep, perfectly.

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Thank you. All right. Good stuff, Jermaine, man. Well, I'm looking forward to it.

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Hopefully, we'll have it tomorrow. Sure, man. We've talked before. Now, I forgot, where are you in Cali?

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I'm in the Bay Area, San Francisco Bay Area. Okay, Bay Area. All right. Okay. Yeah, so that's right.

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I think you were from Southern Cal or something. Yeah, yeah, I'm from SoCal. I moved to Idaho 20 years ago.

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And we've got snow outside. It was weird. When I first moved up here, it was like, hey, what is that stuff? Is there a problem?

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Because in Southern California, the weather, we had winter on Tuesday. We're done.

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Yeah, so it was nice, but all right. All right. So there you go, brother.

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I'm glad that helps. All right? Yeah, that helps a lot. I appreciate it. All right, man.

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God bless. Bye. God bless. All right. You know, that reminds me. This is the word until in Matthew 125.

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Joseph kept her virgin until she gave birth to a son and called his name Jesus. Now, the word until can mean, in different places, different things.

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And so one of the things, you know, I've talked to Catholics, and I've said, look, why do you want to say that Mary was always a virgin?

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Because they have this exalted view. They elevate her to a functioning goddess. They do, and that's another discussion

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I have with them. And with this one, I say, well, what does it mean when a man says, I kept my fiancee a virgin until her wedding night?

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What does that mean? What is going on here? What's the context? And, you know, what?

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They never answer the question. I say, what does it mean right there? And they won't answer it. Well, over here it means.

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I didn't ask that. I said, what does it mean right here? Matthew 125. He kept her virgin until they gave birth to a son,

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Jesus. So what does that mean? Well, over there it means. And they won't answer the question. And I'll say, what does it mean when a man says he kept his fiancee a virgin until their wedding night?

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What does that mean? And they won't answer the question because the simplicity is just right there.

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And they are so hooked on their idolatrous brouhaha that's attached to their goddess icon figure of Mary.

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And that's right. That's what I said. It's a goddess icon. That's what Mary is to them. She's a functioning goddess.

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And it's really bad what they do with Mary. In fact,

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I wrote an article, Is Mary a Functioning Goddess? And I wrote this article in January.

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I released it in January 22nd, actually. And I was recently going through this article with some of the

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Catholics. And I said, look. And I was in this room. I said, go to this

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URL on my website. You'll see. Here, click on this. You'll go to there. And a lot of times

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I don't know what works until I've practiced it with them and see how they react.

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And this is what I did. And it turns out that what really gave them pause was the idea when they say, they just venerate

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Mary. They don't worship Mary. And I said, well, you venerate. You do the exact same thing in veneration you do in worship with God.

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They said, no, we don't. I said, yeah, you do. You bow down. Genesis 24, 26. You bow down to God.

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Prostration before God. Many verses. Kissing, or excuse me, pilgrimages to holy sites.

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They did that in the Old Testament. And praying, too. I said, you do the same thing to Mary.

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How is it not worship? And they say, it's in our attitude. And I said, look, a man goes into the gym.

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He works out for two hours, does everything. On the way out of the gym, somebody says, that was a great workout.

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He says, it wasn't a workout, it was exercise. Yes, it was a workout. Because that's what it is. Just changing the name doesn't change what the reality is.

33:53

Hey, we have wide open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877 -207 -2276.

34:00

Be right back. Give me a call. It's Matt Slick live.

34:10

Taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

34:16

Everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, 877 -207 -2276.

34:24

Let's get to Connie from Utah. Connie, welcome. You're on the air.

34:30

Hi, Matt. Hi. Just listening to you talking about this word, until.

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And something that's been kind of bothering me. I listen to some scriptures at night trying to fall asleep.

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But one that comes on, and I looked it up, it's in Genesis 28, 15.

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And God said, I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised you.

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And that always kind of bothers me. Because then you're going to leave us? So you promised you will never leave us or forsake us.

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So what do you have to say about that? He says, I will not leave you until I have done what

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I have promised you. During that third passage, and context is all what you talk about.

35:15

But I'm not exactly sure, even though I just read through Genesis the other day. What do you think about that?

35:23

Well, oh my goodness. What? So I'm looking at the Hebrew, and normally there's one word.

35:32

Yeah. No, it's three words that are until. So this really is interesting.

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Three separate words. And normally what I would do is look at the word, see how it's used.

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Do a quick search. I have some tricks I can do. And then see the semantic domain. Now I can't because it's three separate words.

35:57

And that is intriguing. Why is it three separate words? I gave you a little bit of a homework.

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I'll get back to you. Yes, you did. Thanks a lot. I don't know if I want to say thank you, but thank you anyway.

36:09

So that's nice. Let's see. So let's see if I can look at a commentary that may have gone into this to look into it.

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This is 2815. Because that's interesting. It really is. And looking for the word until.

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I don't see anything in this. You've never heard anywhere else that scripture says that he will never leave us except for.

36:32

Right. It's like saying that. Yeah. And so.

36:38

OK. Well, what I would on the surface, what I would say is that. Oh, man, look at that over there.

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Is that 2815 again? Interesting. I always think anyway.

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So the word until, at least in the New Testament, can have different meanings.

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That's fine. So it can mean that the Lord will be king until he's put all people under his feet.

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Well, that until means it's like an idiomatic phrase. And it just means until this has happened, it's going to continue on and blah, blah, blah.

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It's probably the same kind of a thing that's going on in here. What makes it difficult for me to find it quickly and easily is because it's three separate words.

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So I would have to. You know, I have to do a search for get those three words and see how

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I could search. I could. There's a way. There's a way to do it, but it takes some concentration and a few minutes of silence.

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I'm putting it in the enter and then it gives me the results. And then I could look at the semantic domain to see if that phrase is what is is is being used.

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See preposition, conjunction and conjunction. So there's two or three words is released.

37:58

This is interesting. It is. I've never seen that before. It's really, really. I like it.

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And it's irritatingly interesting. Now, it makes me want to go find out what's going on. So, well, it is for me.

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I want you to be able to tell me something to make me feel better here about this. I'll never leave you until I've done it.

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Because, you know, we follow follows through the promises. Yeah. And then he's going to leave them. Well, let's see now.

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And how about this? But you said we cannot we cannot until the flocks are gathered.

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And that's two of those three words. Oh, this is getting interesting.

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And let's see another place. He stayed until now. Genesis 32. And that's just one of the words.

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And then it's getting interesting. Wrestled with a man until daybreak. And that's

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Genesis 32. And that's one word. So now it's even more irritatingly interesting.

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Because now it's one word, two words, and three words. That's where we call up a

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Hebrew expert and say, what is it about this? Tell us. And, you know, it's the word Ad, which until he came to his brother.

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So the three words. I'd have to go into a Hebrew lexicon and see what the commentaries say on that particular thing.

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And it's one of those things that I like studying that I have to drill down into.

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And then really look. So that's interesting. Okay. But you think it's probably just one of these words and a continuation of the same or something like that?

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That's what I would say. Because, you know, he says, I'm not leave you until I've done all that I promised you.

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Now, it could be that. Okay. It could be that God is saying, look,

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I'm going to be with you in this particular manner until a certain event happens. And then I won't be with you in that particular manner.

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But I'm always going to be with you. But I'll be working this way until this certain event occurs. And that's more covenantal.

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That's how God works covenantally. So this is the context.

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Yeah, it's Jacob's dream. A ladder up. I've been to that place, too, actually, where that was.

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And the land of which you descend is the sun and the earth. And the dust of the earth.

40:26

Yeah, it's interesting. Behold, I'm with you. I'll keep you wherever you go. I'll bring you back into this land.

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I will not leave you until I've done what I promised you to do. So in the context, bringing you back into the land, it looks like the language is talking about a specific timed event or an event that needs to occur.

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It says, I won't be doing this until this. Or it's like saying, I won't stop working this particular way until this event.

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But he's not going to leave us, because he can never do that. That's what's going on. Right. Okay?

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Then beside you, he walks with you. He's with us in every situation. That's right.

41:07

So, well, thanks a lot, Matt. I don't know what you should say. I should say thanks a lot to you.

41:12

That's what I should be saying, thanks a lot. Well, you like something to work on,

41:18

I'm sure. Yeah, I do. I only have 50 things and 900 questions to answer.

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Nothing big. Not that you ought to put anything more on me. I don't want to make you feel guilty or anything, but I do appreciate it.

41:30

More on. That's right. Good stuff. Well, thanks. I'm glad I heard you talking about that until, because I thought, oh, let me hurry and ask

41:38

Matt about that. That seems like a strange way to word that, for God to say that.

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Yeah. It's often how it is. I'll see if I can remember to do some research on it. Okay. All right.

41:54

Talk to you later, then. Thanks. Okay. Thanks for calling. All right. Bye -bye. God bless.

42:01

All right. That's interesting. That's interesting stuff. It causes me to have to study. Let's get to Kent from Winston -Salem,

42:07

North Carolina. Hi. Welcome. You're on the air. How you doing, Matt? Doing okay.

42:13

Doing okay, man. Hanging in there. What's up? I'm the one that called you about the trumpet.

42:19

Who's going to hear it? But I've got another question. In Leviticus 9 -4, also a bull and a ram as a peace offering, what does a peace offering mean?

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Peace is shalom. So a peace offering would be an offering that is made to make peace.

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I hate to say something so obvious, but that's what it is. It's also called a fellowship offering, an offering of thanksgiving to bring peace.

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The question would be... Peace offering to God? That's the question. I think we could certainly have that.

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Because I've been studying Leviticus 16. There's a peace offering in the sense that it's propitiatory. But I believe there's probably something that could be done between individuals as well.

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I would suspect that that's the case. Because you can have neighbors who are at odds with each other, and one can sit against the other, and they get a peace offering that they would offer as a sacrifice.

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So I think that might apply. But I'd have to do some research. Now, if I were to go in and type in peace offering in my really nifty

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Bible program, and I do that, and see if it comes up with some quick answer, and it doesn't.

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But it looks just like a peace offering. I'm going to have to put that on my list of questions to answer.

43:53

What is a peace offering, and what does it mean? Put it on my list. We had it in Sunday school.

44:02

Good. Okay. And, yeah.

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I get a lot of questions. Oh, yeah, I've got like 900 I've got to get to. Seriously.

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Let's see. Okay. What is a peace offering in the

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Bible? And extend. That's my note. Extend it out. I know it needs to get into it more.

44:30

Okay. All right. Okay. All right. Well, thanks a lot. Thank you.

44:36

Well, people are giving me a home now. Thank you. Bye -bye. That's right. God bless you. Bye -bye. You too. God bless. All right.

44:42

Now, let's get to Marilyn from Ohio. Hey, Marilyn, welcome.

44:48

You are on the air. Thank you, Matt. I appreciate your taking my call.

44:54

I enjoy listening to you, and I have learned a lot. My question is about the apocryphal books.

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I would like for you to spend some time explaining what they are and how they came about.

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And I understand that some people feel they're very important scriptures.

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Other people feel they are not scriptures but are important, valuable books. But I would like to hear more about it, and I will hang up and just listen.

45:22

Sure. No problem. Thank you. Okay. Great. All right. The apocryphal books are the books that are written between Malachi and the first New Testament writing.

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And so, roughly, it's a 400 -year period. And the apocryphal books consist of things like Tobit, Judith, Wisdom of Solomon, Sirach, Baruch, 1

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Maccabees, 2 Maccabees. There's also some apocryphal material that goes into Daniel and I want to say

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Esther. I believe Esther, yes. And so, the question is, are they scripture? No, they're not.

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The Jews, according to Romans 2 .2, were the ones entrusted with the oracles of God. They did not recognize the apocryphal books as being scripture.

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They were not considered scripture. So, the

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Roman Catholic Church added them. I'm going to go through. We have one minute, so I'm going to go through it quickly.

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In 1546, they authenticated and said that they were real. Catholics are typically told the

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Protestant Church took the apocryphal books out of the Bible. That's not the case. They're just wrong. In John 5 .39,

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Jesus said the scriptures were about him. And in Luke 24 .44, he spoke about the law of Moses, the prophets, and the psalms.

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And those are the divisions of the Old Testament excluding the apocryphal books. So, Jesus, when he said the scriptures are about him, excluded the apocryphal books.

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And there's other things we can get into along that. And he also said in Luke 11 .51,

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from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah. And that was the reference to the first and last books of the

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Old Testament at that time as they were arranged at that time. There's no clear citation to the apocryphal used by Jesus or the apostles.

47:12

The Jews didn't accept them as the word of God. The Catholic Church didn't officially recognize them until 1546, probably because they're reacting to the

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Protestant Reformation. And the apocryphal books, particularly in Tobit, have errors.

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There's some actual factual errors in them and some doctrinal problems as well. So, they contain superstition, giving money for the sins of the dead, and burning fish hearts that drive away evil spirits and things like that.

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So, there you go. And a lot of the church fathers rejected apocryphal books as well. May the Lord bless you.

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I'm out of time. Hope that was quick and slick. And by his grace, back on here tomorrow. And we'll talk to you then.

47:51

Have a good evening, everyone. God bless. Another program powered by the