Thanksgiving, Physiognomy, & Wheaton College on Political Polarization

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All right, welcome to the podcast. You can go to equippingthepersecuted .org if you want to support

Nigerian brothers and sisters in Christ under persecution from Islamic terrorists.

And equipping the persecuted is purchasing cows to give to villages.

And one cow given to a village can go a long way. And so they're doing it in honor of Christmas.

And it's $600 for one cow, $300 for half a cow, $150 for a quarter of a cow.

And their intention is to give 50 cows. So I would assume that means 50 villages. But you can go to ChristmasCow .org

if you want to be part of that. With that, we're going to get into some topics today.

And I hope everyone is has comfort and joy and is listening to Christmas carols.

I've decided now that the day after Thanksgiving, it is permissible. I used to say it's December. I think because I have a kid now,

I actually was pushing it a few days early. I was on I think Monday, Sunday, no

Sunday, I was starting to play him. So anyway, today is permissible, though you can go and listen to Christmas carols now.

And I had a good Thanksgiving. I had family over, it was actually a little small, some people weren't able to come, we had snow in our area, not directly where I am, but north of me, and west of me.

And we get rain the last two times we've had a dusting or snow, other places have gotten it.

And we've gotten rain for some weird reason. I don't know if it's because we're in a microclimate or what but but we needed the rain.

So I'm glad we had it. I smoked six racks of ribs. I said, get me some meat.

I was thinking brisket would be good. It's expensive. But you know, it's Thanksgiving.

It's the one time of year, either that or Christmas when you can justify it somehow.

So I told her to check out the brisket prices and stuff. And she calls me and says so I already left the store and I have six racks of ribs.

So I did it in two parts. I actually smoked four of the racks. And then I did the two more along with a turkey.

I've never smoked a turkey. I was very impressed with how it came out. I was very surprised. And I just did what

I did for the ribs. Actually, I use pecan. And I don't know what I say pecan, pecan, whatever you want to call that nut, that bark from the tree that produces that nut.

That's what I use for the turkey because I just read online somewhere that that was a good wood to use. And I had some.

And I'll be honest, I don't, I didn't really like taste maybe it's it's subtle, but I didn't sense like, overwhelming pecan taste.

But there was still flavorful. And I did I sprayed a lot of apple cider on it.

I didn't read that anywhere. That's just something I started doing to kind of caramelize some sweetness on my ribs.

And it seemed to work well for the turkey. So overall success on the food. And of course, we went around talked about what we were thankful for, and all the rest, but I was up most of the night the night before smoking stuff.

So I didn't get a lot of sleep, but I just conked out. I was hoping to go hunting this morning didn't happen, didn't happen.

So this afternoon, we'll see if there's any deer out there, which this is my first serious time out, which is not good.

Usually I'm out a few times. And usually I have a deer by now. But life is busy.

And that's just how it goes. So anyway, I hope you all had a good Thanksgiving. Some people were asking because I was posting on on x about it at least and wondering how it came out.

Oh, and I also I did make the last video I showed you kind of some of the seasonings. I'll say this about those seasonings

I showed you the all purpose seasoning from was it called barbecue church or something like that they they're the ones in the store with the cow who's got a choir robe on and meet church

I think is the name of the brand. So they're all purpose was actually pretty good on the turkey. And I think if I had to do it over again,

I would have went with that on the ribs I used there. I think it's a mesquite kind of spicy flavor for four of the racks.

And in my opinion, now some people really liked it, in my opinion, it's a bit strong on the pepper. Now again, I like sweet, and they're sweet seasoning, which

I used on two racks was really good. And I smoked, smoked for the racks, the two sweet ones and two of the spicy ones on some hickory.

And to me, that was very flavorful. And I didn't wrap them. I just sprayed the apple cider, the other ones

I wrapped the two other racks. And it is a very different experience wrapping versus unwrapping.

And it's hard to tell, you know, when you wrap just for those who aren't initiated into barbecue, for the last two or three hours, it'll it kind of cooks it in its own juices, and you have a very tender, soft exterior to your rib.

So with the butter and the sugar, you could even add more seasoning, I don't do that. But it'll kind of, it all melds together.

And you pick it up, and it just melts in your mouth. That's the kind of rib people say they like because it melts in your mouth.

If you don't wrap it, though, in the longer it goes, the harder that shell gets.

So it becomes like a, it changes the texture somewhat, right? So you're biting through.

First, this caramelized if you spray like I do the apple cider is caramelized layer into the skin, which is a little, little bit tougher, it's a little bit more of a barrier, and then the smoke ring hits you.

And I think I'm gonna I like that a little more. But my not everyone does. My wife likes it wrap.

So there's my barbecue lesson. And yeah, someone asked if we'll do a podcast where I'll be out in the smoke or showing you stuff.

And I don't feel like I'm at the level. I mean, there's shows where, you know, people are competitive with this kind of thing.

I think I think I'm learning still. But if that's what the people want, that's what I'll do. Leave a comment.

Let me know if that's what you want. If the people have spoken, we'll go out to the smoker, and I'll show you what

I do. And it'll be fun. So all right, seven minutes in and all I've talked about is barbecue.

And of course, we've also talked about equipping the persecuted a little bit in there. So I need to get moving here.

We have a lot to cover. And I don't know how much I'm gonna so so here's my thought process before I even commence on this.

There is this Wheaton College for lack of what would you call it a summit?

It ends in a panel, but it's a presentation, two presentations followed by a panel.

It's an event, okay. And this event is called the polar is what's next.

That's the event. That's what it's called. And it was on the 18th. So it was right after the election. They held this nine days ago.

And it so I'll back up a little

Wheaton College has some issues. I've talked a little bit a very little bit. And it's the kind of issues you would expect because a lot of Christian institutions of higher learning have gone pretty varying extents, but pretty hard woke more than you'd expect, you know, part on the social justice stuff, pushing left, we'll put it that way.

And because I think so much of my focus has been with the SBC and SBC schools, to a lesser extent, the

PCA, and then just in general organizations that have a lot of influence like crew.

I'm not saying Wheaton gets a pass, but I haven't focused as heavily on Wheaton, I've talked about them. Behind the scenes,

I've known of some, in my opinion, pretty crazy stuff that that has gone on there, like, can really concerning stuff, and I haven't talked about it.

And I want to talk about it. I want to expose some of this stuff. And I want to start with this.

This is I just felt like this was the this was the place to start. It's recent. There's all of Wheaton University, I mean, this is gonna be the comeback you always hear, right?

Like there's Wheaton University endorse everything these speakers you're about to hear, they said, there's Wheaton University, have professors that might have different views,

I'm sure they do, right? The thing you got to realize about the event I'm about to show you, though, is it's presented as a neutral thing, like it's not partisan.

It's about polarization as a problem. But both speakers and the panel that follows and everything about it are completely coming from a leftist vantage point.

And there's really no exception. There is no concern about polarization coming from the left.

It's all the fault of the right. It's all the fault of, quote, unquote, Christian nationalists. It's all the fault of the MAGA crowd, that and they're believing conspiracies, and they're not trusting the official sources.

And they're, it's everything you would hear on MSNBC with a Christian veneer. And it's very frustrating, to be honest, and because the people who are propagating this, and you'll see as I play it, they don't seem to understand that they're not self aware.

We'll put it that way. They're not self aware. They think that they're unbiased, that they're objective, that they transcend this political divide.

And they're here to tell you what God would expect how Christians should navigate it. They're not unbiased.

They're not, they have a team they've chosen. And I have a piece coming out in the

Federalist soon, that makes this point, I don't talk about Wheaton, but I make this point more with the

Christians who try to present themselves as transcending the political polarization are sometimes the most polarized.

And they're pulling for one side, and it's the left. And how did our institutions get this way when 81 % of evangelicals are voting for Donald Trump?

It's a question worth asking and exploring. And I think I've come up with some answers to it.

But it's still something I keep asking myself, because it is an odd phenomenon, you have to admit that is an odd phenomenon.

So we're gonna talk about that a little bit. And I'm going to give you my answer, my response to these, this panel, this presentation that is going out to in some part to people who are training for pastoral ministry or training to be

Christian leaders. So I will take by the way any questions today, this is kind of a loose, not a free for all, but it's,

I got my ball cap on, I'm not being that serious today. I'm not, I didn't put the collared shirt on either.

I got a t shirt. I'm just, I'm just hanging out with you the day after Thanksgiving. Some of you are probably streaming this as you're trying to find deals.

That's what my wife is doing that right now. She's out there trying to find well, I don't know how much of it is trying to find the deals and how much of it is having coffee with her friends.

It's kind of like a tradition. Now she goes out, she goes to the store, she has coffee. Sometimes she doesn't come back with anything other times she does.

But maybe you're out there doing that. All right, we already have a question. Wheaton has been evangelical left for a long time.

Are Trump voters still out on the premises? As far as I know, there are Trump voters, especially students who are on the premises.

So, Oh, Jake, man, my smoker broke last week and I was forced to go back to using the oven.

I don't even, I don't want to see comments like that, that those are the comments that break my heart and you don't want to break my heart.

Drop that smoke video. All right. All right. Well, we got some requests for the smoke video. You know what

I'd love is if meat church sponsored the podcast, that would give me more incentive to really show you how

I'm using their product. So, uh, maybe I'll, maybe I'll put a post out there. Maybe I'll do it right now. How about I do it right now?

You can all go since you're live streaming. Some of you, at least some of you will listen to this on the re record.

We'll find meat church on X and there it is.

I found it already. It's just at meat church. That's the most simple handle. And I'm going to put a tweet out there.

Meat church. I would like to sponsor your products or your seasonings or your we'll say rubs.

Let's talk. PM me. All right. Now, if you want me to do more barbecue content, you can go to my ex account right now.

It's the last tweet. I just put it out there and read, reshare that. And if it gets some traction, maybe, maybe we can get something going.

All right. Have you talked about the Antioch declaration? I'm confused about the racial animus that people like James White talk about.

Yeah, I did. I did a podcast is long, about two hours, 20 minutes, one of my longest podcasts.

And I am very frustrated in it. I'm, it's, I don't have any notes.

I don't write anything down or put a show to get like a slideshow. I just kind of talk from where I'm at and I read through it and I express a lot of frustration with it.

So if you want to go watch that, that will hopefully help you understand where I'm coming from on it.

I have told people that I don't plan to talk more about this. And now I may, but I don't plan to after yesterday.

And I think this, you can't really separate these things. I know there is somewhat of a separation, but the reaction is tied together.

The reaction is to this, the aversion to signing it, especially is partially because there's an outstanding issue has been between Pastor Joel Webb and Tobias Raymond Schneider.

And, and then the guys who shared the video that Pastor Raymond Schneider put out that was attacking

Joel. And, and of course, you know, from the other side,

I suppose, you know, Joel, I guess some are framing it this way that he initiated an attack on Pastor Raymond Schneider.

However you want to frame that, Pastor Raymond Schneider actually put out a video yesterday.

I was very glad that I put out mine hours beforehand, not knowing he was going to put out after a month, a clarification or a second video.

And all I have to say to that at this point is it makes me very sad to see, to see where the attitudes are at and where the, the discourses, where this should be something.

I agree with Aaron McIntyre who put out a podcast about this whole thing. And this really should have been all of it.

I think should, could have been handled much better in my humble opinion. And I'm just, yeah,

I see when there's division like this and it's Christians, I can't help but wonder whether this is the devil also at work.

I mean, that's, that's what he wants. I mean, what did Christ want? He wanted unity. And this seems like some of the most unnecessary unity, disunity that they're, that I've seen in a while.

And and so I'm not really want to talk about it much anymore. I think, I feel like I've said my piece. I don't really, I don't have anything that I want to retract that I, someone could show me something, but I, I've no regrets in how

I've interacted with it. And I think had I put the video I put out yesterday, today or tomorrow about the situation,

I probably would have been, uh, much harder on pastor Tobias, to be quite honest with you.

And, uh, and I don't want to be harder on him. I don't want to talk about it. And there's a lot of people in the audience who are frankly sick of this.

And I realized some of you that you've heard this for the first time, and it's very complicated. I was telling my dad last night,

I was like, it's to understand this entire issue. It's like, you have to listen to all these podcasts and they're two hours and, and they build off each other.

And there's, and it's become one of those things where it's, it's gotten to the point, things are, are becoming complicated enough that it's just like their sides and there's bad blood.

And some people probably don't even remember exactly what all the reasons are for why that's there.

I mean, that's, that's the typical, uh, clan clannish, uh, warfare of like the

Hatfields and McCoys, right? Why did we start fighting? I don't know. Some of, some people don't even remember, but I do remember enough to know the working issues.

It just takes a long time to get through it and to do a fair job talking about it. So go watch what I've already put out there.

That's my last thing I want to say about it. I don't really want to say anymore and just pray for peace and, uh, let's enjoy the holiday season and Christmas as much as we can.

All right. Thoughts about euthanasia. Okay. David Carlson for $10, uh, being legalized in the United Kingdom.

Is it the forthcoming culture war? How do you Christians respond to this? Thank you for your Antioch coverage. Very helpful. Uh, wow.

Yeah. Oof. Yeah, of course it is. Of course it's a very serious problem and it's legal in some of the

United States as well. So they call it death with dignity.

There's now, um, some of you have probably seen online in Europe. There's these, uh, pods that you can in some countries.

I don't know if it's in the United States yet, but you can enter these pods and it's a suicide pod. It'll kill you, but in a way that's supposedly peaceful, it doesn't cause you pain and you can exit this planet.

I think it's bad for a number of reasons. Obviously this is self murder, suicide, breaking

God's law on a fundamental level. Secondly, it also, I think it only comes from a very bad place.

And when you have those kinds of laws that allow that, uh, you're also coming from, you're encouraging and you're, what you're doing is you're saying that morally speaking, this is not a problem.

Now some people have mocked laws that are against suicide or like, or just cause like, what are you going to do?

You're going to punish the guy you did. Um, I think the issue more comes down to this.

You have doctors and companies making money off of it. So it's the monetization of this.

So that's the working issue. It's not, you know, the mockery about like, Oh, are we going to make laws against it?

Like that, that misses the point. Like this is, are we as a society going to encourage this kind of thing?

And if you feel depressed one day, like where I live, I, there's a bridge not far away. There's all these signs.

Life is worth living called the hotline, right? Are we going to, as a society say, you know what, we're not going to do that anymore.

Or at least we're going to send mixed signals. Well, maybe we'll still have that, but we're also going to start giving the impression that actually this is a perfectly permissible moral and fine thing to do.

And the cost of this, I think, I mean, it's hard to quantify because I don't know of any studies, maybe there are, but in all the situations

I know where there's been a suicide, it has left absolute devastation for those who are still alive. Absolute devastation, a devastation that lasts years, the last lifetimes, when it's a father, a brother, a cousin, a nephew.

I mean, it's, you know, if you feel like you have no connection to anyone, maybe the impact is a little less minimal on society.

But even then, I mean, someone has to take care of your body after you make that decision. Someone has to come to terms with the fact that there, there are people out there who think that the life, life that they've been given this gift is not worth living.

And they should all go watch. It's a wonderful life this Christmas. That's my opinion. So yeah, it's, it's bad. It shows further degradation, further an attack on the creator and his plan, and that he made a mistake in creating you or creating another person.

And it's an attack on the created order, just like transgenderism is an attack on the gender binary, just like abortion is an attack on frankly, motherhood and fatherhood and parenting and the baby that's in the womb and the whole structure.

It's bigger than just the one person. It's, this is a social, socially wide problem.

John, I would love to have you in AD on to talk about how the internet has changed brother wars.

And if it's brought any useful and helpful tools to bear or merely complicated everything, that's a good question, man.

I don't know. I don't know. It's something I'd have to reflect on. I think it has probably produced conflicts that you would never have heard of.

It wouldn't have been a conflict. I think overall it's bad, but again, you're listening to this podcast online.

It's like any technology. You can use it for good. You can use it for evil. But I think that Kruptos has made a good point on technology because, you know, he says that once you have the technology, it changes you in ways.

Sometimes you're not always expecting. And sometimes the net there's a net negative, even if it's like good content, even if you're listening to this podcast, there can be a net negative in that.

How does he explain it? That it shapes the way that you, you approach things and think about things and attention spans and that sort of thing.

So, um, I mean, I'm of the opinion, I wouldn't be doing the podcast if I thought that all technology was bad and all podcasts talking about issues are bad.

I think there's potential for learning and probably being confronted with information and solutions even to problems that you never would have heard of if we didn't have technology at the same time, though.

I think overall there is a negative net effect and it's hard. I I'm in this position of being in a spot where I'm using technology.

And at the same time, I want to go back in so many ways to a pre -modern ways of understanding, thinking and living.

And some of those ways cannot be brought back. They're not compatible with a technological society.

And I'm someone who's grappling with that and, uh, very aware of that and probably, uh, in some areas blind to it.

But I'm, I'm, I'm thinking through the creative ways that, uh, because, because it's not slowing down and it'll get probably even more ramped up with AI.

I'm thinking of creative ways of trying to, um, get away from some of the media impact we have in the short attention spans in the new cycles, the last two seconds, while also, um, engaging at it in a minimal way with, uh, with the useful and helpful things that all of that can bring you, how do you cope with the smoker cleanup?

You know, I probably am doing it wrong. Uh, I don't like the sprays, so I just use a power washer.

So I will, I just kind of like clean it off with the brush, the racks. And then, uh, after the,

I don't know, a month, a few months usually, uh, cause it depends how often you're smoking, but I'll just like get a power washer and really clean it out.

Uh, all right, we're going to get into a physiognomy. I hope I'm saying that right. Or, or, uh, fizzy fizzy.

Am I saying that right? Physiognomy. Yeah. I think I'm saying that right. Physiognomy. Uh, so is physiognomy inherently sinful people like James White or Chris say yes.

Do they? I didn't know that. I knew there was a big debate. I didn't know that they were on that side. Um, I'm going to get into that in just a moment.

We're going to get into that before we get into the wheat and stuff, even though we're 24 minutes in a lot of questions coming in. I'm surprised how many people are online right now.

Um, have you watched Wolfers Gordon talk? I've watched clips. I haven't watched the whole thing because I've been,

I've been listening to hours and hours of people trying to talk through the

Antioch and the Tobias Joel thing. And I'm so sick of it. So sick of it. I kind of want to listen to the

Wolfers Gordon thing. All right. Um, let's yeah, we're going to get there.

Trouble. All right, let's, where do we want to start? Let's start here. Let's, let's do the physiognomy. I can say the word.

Um, I don't ever say that word in normal circumstances. It's something I only read online. So I've never actually had to pronounce it.

I don't think physiognomy. There we go. I'm just going to go with that. Let's talk about it a little bit.

So there is a debate. I'm not going to talk about sides. I guess apparently James White and a guy named

Chris are on one side of it, but here's, here's what's happening. What I broadly see.

So you have people, um, people on the right wing people who are,

I think there's a correlation here. Guys who are getting into the gym who are powerlifting, who are really inspired to live in a more healthy way.

They're rejecting the seed oils and they seem to be the ones who are making this point more so that there is this element to your physical body that is also connected to your, um, your spirit, your more moral direction, the way that you live and the way you come across in your character, character, uh, and physical aptitude are somewhat similar or not similar, but they're somewhat connected.

I think actually there's some truth to this. I think you could take it way too far. There are some very good looking people who go to the gym, right?

Obviously who have a deficient character in some ways. Now, I think going to the gym and that kind of thing, there's, there's already an element of that, that you have discipline.

That doesn't mean you have discipline in all areas, but there is at least some discipline somewhere.

And that is something you can build off of. And this is the kind of thing I think Jordan Peterson talks about and other like self -help guys.

There's like obviously a benefit when the first thing you do is make your bed in home morning and you complete tasks and you get in the habit of doing things that are productive because it will like dominoes, it will land you into other productive things and you'll have a productive life.

Right? So a, a habit, uh, is formed by small actions over time that are consistent and then that makes a pattern.

It makes a lifestyle and then you can be more healthy. And if you're more healthy, frankly, you're going to be more happy in general.

That's just, those are general proverbial truths. I think physiognomy is like that.

I think it's, it is a general proverbial truth that has exceptions. There are people who are physically appealing who do not have good character.

There are people who are not physically appealing who have stellar character.

I think a lot of this though comes down to, it's not like someone who got burned up in a plane crash, right?

That's not what they're talking about. They're talking about usually like a character and life decisions, moral decisions that correlate to or associated with or have an impact on your physical appearance.

Let me give you an example of that. So you are someone without self control because you're someone without self control.

You don't eat healthy, you eat sugar, you eat the things that are tastes good to you.

And because of that, you'll do it in front of the television and you don't actually have an active lifestyle and you're constantly being entertained.

Right? And because of that, your mind turns to jello because you don't use it and you outsource your thinking to other people and your intention span decreases.

And because of that, you start to look a certain way, right? You get soft. It's not just a matter of having weight, but you're soft in that way.

That weight isn't coming, you know, you're not out there doing work on the farm and you're burly, you know, that's different.

Uh, no, you actually, you're soft, you're, and you become useless for physical activities. You can't actually go help someone move because you don't have the strength and you can't hardly help yourself move cause your body's in a particular state.

And this is going to have an impact on you if you're someone who is, and it also make you unhappy to be quite honest with you.

Uh, you're probably not going to be smiling as much as you think cause you're, you're involved in these distracting activities that are the devil's substitute for joy.

They're not real joy. There's not going to give you that. And you just, when you turn off the television, you just feel like your life's a waste.

Why did I engage in that? Why did I waste hours? Why did I waste days? Why did I waste years of my life on stupidity, on foolishness?

And I got nowhere. I made no progress. Uh, and that's going to have an impact on the way you look.

And this is something, let me just give you an example before I get into some scripture for my own life. I lived in North Carolina and I lived in Virginia for a little bit.

And of course I've traveled extensively too. And in different parts of the country there are people from different ethnic backgrounds.

So they look differently. You have people from in the Midwest that are German more so and different kind of center central

European countries who've been immigrated there. Right. And you have Scots Irish in the Appalachian part of the country and much of the

South. You have Cavalier types. Now you have a lot of Yankees who have moved down. So you have Puritan types as well in the low country in the

South. Uh, in, in the Northeast, there's a lot of like old kind of wasp stock.

And so I, I get that there are different features that these different people are going to have just as a matter of the genetics they carry.

Right. But there is something else that I think is also very determinative and I don't know to what extent it is.

I just know I sense it more than I can probably articulate it, but I'm going to try.

When I lived in Virginia, people were generally happier. Now admittedly it's a little more heavier

Scots Irish type people. And it's a mixture of people for people in the very, I lived actually, there's a lot of people from the

Midwest and even from the North and other places that have moved in. But, uh, even the people who came from New York that had a rough exterior, they kind of lightened up and they acclimated.

They became a little more happy because everyone around you is happy. People are saying hello to you in the store.

They're opening doors and smiling and it makes you smile back. And they're saying,

I like that hat. I like that dress. I, what do you think about this? It, you have connections with the humans around you.

You're not so isolated. And the metric for living life is not so much your bank account and how successful you are, what position you have.

It's more, who are your people? Where are you from? I mean, some, someone in Virginia asked me that, well, you know, who are your people?

And, and I think it just, there's a happier lifestyle. Uh, Hey, it gets dirty on the farm, but we can slop around with the pigs and have fun.

Like, you know, not everything has to be perfect and not everything is about impressing other people.

So in the North, and especially New York has a reputation for this.

It's the rat race. You are judged by your car that you drive and your account, your bank account and these kinds of things more.

So, uh, there is more stress. There is more pressure. There is a higher cost of living. That's hard to meet. So you have two breadwinners in the home, right?

There's a whole host of things in the culture around you is not helping. If they're not there, they tend to pull you down more.

So I'm telling you this as someone who's lived with the experience of it, not someone who's speculating on any of this is just true.

It doesn't mean there's happy, there's happy people, but, uh, there's, there's less of them, at least publicly.

The look on people's faces is different. And my wife and I have talked about this a little bit, that it almost seems sometimes like if you're used to smiling, the wrinkles on your face will land in a certain way.

They will, uh, they will, when you're, you're resting face may be different. If you smile a lot, then someone who frowns a lot, who's not used to smiling, who's on constantly under pressure, who's right.

And so what is that? Is that physiognomy or whatever that word is?

Well, your appearance does seem to indicate something deeper about you. And it does over the course of life, over years of things like not eating right, and having a depressing lifestyle, it'll catch up to you.

You'll look at you'll look haggard. You'll look beaten, you'll look weathered and you'll be the kind of person that's consistent with that.

Look, now this is general. This isn't specific to every situation. This is just in general, you sense it.

You feel it. When you go, when you go from the South to the North, I'm telling you, you start to feel it. And, and I have,

I remember one time I came up for a visit and I said, I smiled and said hello to someone.

Cause that's just what you do in Virginia. And this person gave me a scowl and it kind of took the wind out of my sails.

I realized, oh yeah, you don't do that here. People think that you want something from them. If you do that, you just be careful with that.

Right. And that's not good because we need to, we need to encourage that. We should be friendly, but it's so different.

Uh, the way the lifestyle is so different. I remember when I was looking for colleges, I visited Liberty university.

This was an undergrad. And then I was at, I'll just say it. I was at Western Connecticut state university, like the next day.

And I remember on campus looking around and I was a young man at the time. And I, uh, you know, obviously wanted to find a wife and I'm looking at the way that the girls dressed and presented themselves and looked at Liberty.

And I'm looking at the way the girls dressed and presented themselves and looked at West con. It was a huge, huge contrast.

And it wasn't just the way they were dressed. That was like, you know, at West con, it was like, kind of like in the morning, it was like, who cares what

I look like? Or is it Liberty? There's a lot more effort into how they look, but it was also just the looks on their faces.

You could tell, you could just cut it with a knife, the depression, the sadness, uh, at West con.

And, uh, and so I think those things exist that we, we all know this. We all know this, that those things exist, that life's on an individual level, lifestyle matters on a social level, those kinds of things matter.

And, and so let's get into the biblical stuff real quick, and then we'll move on to the Wheaton stuff. Um, I think it would be foolish to think appearance does not factor into things like leadership, right?

But it is certainly not the most important factor. So King Saul was tall and handsome, right? People praised

Absalom for his looks. Uh, King Nebuchadnezzar chose to educate young Jewish men who were not only intelligent, but good looking.

It's all in scripture and it seems to be just in our experience.

And scripture is no exception to this, that there is a natural human tendency to gravitate towards people who appear healthy, strong, and beautiful yet appearance as we know can be deceiving.

So the Lord chose David who was ruddy, who was, uh, had beautiful eyes and a handsome appearance.

That's what scripture says to proceed. King Saul, King Saul was good looking. So was David. People often will try to say, well, you know, looks is deceiving.

God looks at the heart. Cause look at King Saul. He was a head taller and yet, well, look who God exchanged him for someone who scripture described and it describes this for a reason that he was ruddy.

He was beautiful eyes and handsome appearance. That's who God chose. He also told the prophet Samuel not to consider appearance or height because God sees not as man sees for man looks at the outward appearance of the

Lord's looks at the heart. So what do you do with all this? I think this is a difficult problem for institutions that are trying to produce leaders because what we've seen in Christianity and in other institutions is the production of an image, uh, and they're cheap to manufacture.

So you have fashionable optics, uh, and you, you know, this is,

I think one of the hamper thing, hampering us from understanding this is we do live in a digital age again, technology where you can very cheaply kind of mimic, copy, uh, produce someone who looks like they're all these things.

Cause it's a big show, but internally they're not, they're not really all of those things.

And so you, you have stylists and you have a video editing and you,

I mean, even you have airbrushing on magazines at the store and that kind of thing. And so we're part of us, we're, we're suspicious when we see someone who's, uh, almost too perfect.

Cause we think that there's a problem that they're like, they must have some problem somewhere. Right. And this wasn't always the case.

So technology I think has made this a little more difficult in some ways. Um, but I think these two things are not in conflict.

God sees not as man sees God looks at the heart. You can have a heart that is rotten and have good looks at the same time.

We see a pattern of generally speaking leaders. And even when

God chooses leaders tend to be good looking people. And I think often the examples brought up to prove that this isn't a factor, actually prove it's a factor.

For example, I see people online saying that, what about Jesus? He wasn't a man of appearance that we would be attracted to him.

He, I mean, it's really, I think that's talking about the crucifixion. I mean, he was beaten, he was marred and that this is somehow an argument against the idea of a physiognomy, uh, agnomy.

And I don't think that that actually proves what they're trying to prove.

If anything, I mean, I think that's actually a separate issue to be quite honest, that someone who has been from an external source, they've beaten him.

I think some of the other things that have been said, like, uh, you know, like, like a good military leader, we'll put it this like Napoleon, right?

Like someone will pick an example out like, Hey, there's someone who, who didn't, he wasn't tall. Well, that's just the point though.

He wasn't, that's the thing that's exceptional about him. It's when people try to like, when people say adoption proves that there's no such thing as genetics or something like lineage or whatever, like, because you can adopt, right?

It's like, well, you actually, you're proving the opposite point of what you think you're proving that the reason adoption is so, uh, like.

Exceptional and people praise it. And it's seen as such a sacrifice and so forth is because you have a wonderful couple, hopefully who they love these children and they're choosing to, uh, treat them as heirs is what

God did with us, right? Choosing to treat us in a way that we're not deserving of, we're not naturally deserving of.

So it actually reinforces the fact that there is this natural spot that a child would be in.

Uh, and you're choosing to put someone in that spot who normally wouldn't be there. Isn't that a great thing it is.

And it's because there is this natural family unit without a natural family union, it would be meaningless.

It's the same thing here. Yeah. Napoleon was a good leader. Uh, and he was short and P but, and you can be a short leader.

That's absolutely true. Some of the best leaders can be short people. They can be people who are, uh, you know, maybe we're, they, they had a, an appearance that wasn't necessarily, um, the most appealing and they can be, have great character.

But oftentimes what's impressive about someone like Napoleon is the fact that they were able to be good leaders when the natural proclivities of most people is they're going to choose someone who's tall.

I didn't make that rule. That's just, I mean, you see that, like I said, even in scripture, that's why people chose tall

Saul, this just seems to be a human nature kind of thing. Right. So I don't make a big deal about this stuff, but some people seem to, and I think there's some of you guys who are just like, think that a physiognomy is everything you need to like cool it.

Like it's just, just admit there's patterns here and, and yeah.

And you can recognize someone who looks a certain way and be like, look, man, the way you look like you're not taking care of yourself, you know, why should we listen to you when you talk about an issue like self -control when it's like, it's obvious you don't really have it.

I mean, it just seems that way. And there's all sorts of reasons for people gaining weight and that kind of thing.

So I don't want to make a broad brush on this, but like, there's obviously general, uh, general impressions that we have.

Um, so, um, yeah. And I, I'd say people who say that this isn't a factor at all. It's like, you should never look at someone's appearance.

Like, come on, come on. If I came in here and I was just like, my, my beard was going all over the place.

My care was all disheveled. You know, I look like I just woke up. I had a, I don't know, like a dirty shirt on, you know, what would you think?

Right. Like, come on, come on. Like that's important. And, uh, yeah, more could be said, but that's, that's, that's my piece for now.

So, um, all right. Questions real quick. And then we'll get into, uh, some more, this is going to be a longer one today.

We'll get into the wheat and stuff. Uh, thank you for talking positively about adoption.

Yeah, no problem. I don't usually hear it. Um, yeah, I hear it all the time. I think Christians tend to be positive about it, but I don't,

I don't know where you're listening. Um, um, principled living leaves a mark drugs, alcohol, junk food,

STDs, lack of exercise, laziness, and overdoing the plastic Botox. Absolutely. Hollywood's filled with these people.

They enter Hollywood and they look nice and it doesn't take long, the lifestyle they live.

And you're like, man, it's supposed to be the beautiful people. It's supposed to be the cream of the crop and the lifestyle has an effect.

There's no doubt about it. Okay. Um, we're going to, we're going to keep going here.

Oh, I want to John, thank you for having Doug Robinson as a guest. I listened to both your interviews and as a mom of a married lesbian,

I agree with his observations wholeheartedly. Well, thank you for saying that, Tina. Uh, all right.

I think that's it for now. We have the freedom to get into another topic. Let's talk about this

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All right. We're getting into it. Wheaton college. This is the polarization and peacemaking.

What's next event from nine days ago with Elizabeth Newman and Caleb Campbell. Let's start down all of.

All right. Let's let's, should we start, man? This is how long is this? This is one hour and a half. We're not getting through this today. I think we'll be lucky if we get through 10 minutes.

Man, I don't even know. We'll skip around a little bit. Let's just start at the beginning and go from there.

Good evening and welcome. My name is Amy black. I teach in the department of politics and international relations, and it is my delight to welcome you all here this evening on behalf of the center for applied

Christian ethics, the department of politics and international relations and the American values coalition.

We are happy to introduce you to the American values coalition. Introduce our event, election 2024 polarization and peacemaking what's next.

And just in case you're curious, we planned this event months of go months ago. We did not know who would win the election, but we knew that we would be polarized and we knew as always that Christians would be well -placed to serve as agents of peace.

And so tonight I, I think you're in for a real. It's funny. She says it's at the beginning, cause you listen to the whole thing and you get the impression

Christians are some of the worst, uh, examples of peacemaking.

Treat to hear from our guests tonight, before we hear from our guests though, I first would like to introduce nap

Nazareth, who is the executive director of the American values coalition. He earned his PhD in political science from the university of Florida, and he's worked in academia as well as in journalism.

He served for eight and a half years at the Christian post and now has been in his position for a while at ABC.

So join me in welcoming nap Nazareth. Thank you.

Uh, let me see. I think I have a slide here. If I can, there we go.

All right. So just to tell you a little bit about American values coalition, we started in 2021, uh, out of a concern about the amount of misinformation and political extremism that was taking place, especially in conservative communities and, and, uh, conservative churches and evangelical churches.

And, but we wanted to approach this problem as people who are ourselves, evangelicals and conservative.

This is a conservative speaking to conservatives situation. As I often say, sort of a clean our own house situation.

Um, and so we, we use trusted voices to reach people who have been, who are being radicalized and who are being misinformed based upon oftentimes their media sources.

Um, and we also, we have a particular concern about the broken relationships that have occurred because of the radicalization, the extremism and the misinformation that's taking place.

We've heard tons of stories over and over again about families being torn apart, churches being torn apart, friendships being torn apart, uh, because of what's been taking place.

Okay. So here's what he's talking about. This is the, uh, American values coalition. I just looked it up real quick and you can see that their mission is growing a community of Americans empowered to lead with truth, reject extremism and misinformation and defend democracy.

And he just told you he's concerned with it coming from conservatives. And, uh, this is all the buzzwords are there, right?

It just sounds like, I mean, he works for ABC, so that wouldn't surprise me, but he sounds like he's coming at this, uh, with an eye to blame, uh,

Christian, more conservative types. But, you know, let's give him, I guess, as much of a benefit of the doubt as we possibly can.

Keep listening here. So I would love for you, if you, if that sounds interesting to you, uh, there's a

QR code here. It'll take you directly to a site where you can sign up just to get more information.

It's just to sign up for our email list. Uh, also we have, uh, some cards on.

Okay. I don't care about his advertisement here. Let's just skip ahead. Um, the, the important thing is if you have kids and you're thinking of sending them to Wheaton, what are they going to hear?

What's the kind of thing that Wheaton presents to them. And, you know, I, I would expect,

I wouldn't expect because of what I've done, but if I was just a normal Christian family, I would expect

Christians to veer more conservative. Cause that's who they are evangelicals.

And at the very least that they're going to do an event like this for it to be balanced. Right. If it's going to,

I would expect them either to be, or conservative or how both sides presented. Right. Uh, desert

Springs, Bible church and. Okay. He's introducing the speakers. We're going to get past that. All right.

So here's the first speaker. This is Elizabeth Newman. And, uh, she is a former

Homeland security official. So they have her come in to talk about this. Once.

Cause we're going to talk, talk about some dark stuff. Um, but hopefully you'll stick through it to the end because I did.

I am not one that, uh, likes to wallow in the dark, but looks for the light.

Um, but I want to, I want to start a little bit about my background and why I'm standing on this stage in front of you today.

Um, I, uh, came into the Homeland security space because of 9 11.

I was working in Washington, DC at that time, and I can still palpably remember the fear and the hyper vigilance that was coursing through my body that morning.

And for all of the chaos and the panic that was happening around us, we were moving painfully slow down independence

Avenue and my hatchback. And I had a bunch of friends that were crammed in there because nobody wanted to be on the Metro. And I could see the smoke from the

Pentagon off up ahead of me to my left. And at some point there was a, there was a gap in the buildings on the national wall.

And in my rear view mirror, I could see the Capitol. It was still there.

You see, at that time, there were lots of reports that there were still planes in the air. We didn't know about the bravery of flight 93 yet.

And we do now know that that plane was most likely destined for the Capitol. This is a, uh, a very heavy intro.

I would say this is, uh, we're starting off like you want to talk about polarization.

Let's bring up probably in the minds of most people, one of the biggest, most defining national moments that we've had since world war two.

I mean, let's bring up nine 11. So at the time we were expecting much, much worse that morning, like so many of my generation, nine 11 changed my career path.

And I swore to do whatever I could answer phones, get coffee, whatever. To make sure that terrorists never struck the homeland again.

And for the next 20 years, it was my honor to be a small part of the counterterrorism community.

But then it did happen. Terrorists did attack the Capitol. They killed five law enforcement officers.

They injured nearly 150 others and caused $2 .8 million in damage to the

Capitol. But this time they had invoked my faith to justify their actions.

Instead of Allahu Akbar, God is greatest, which was the phrase Mohammed Adda instructed the nine 11 attackers to use.

It was a weirdly dressed man known as a QAnon shaman shouting, thank you heavenly father for gracing us with this opportunity and invoking the name of Jesus Christ to close the prayer in the

United States Senate. That dark afternoon in January, I was watching people from my community complete their rage fueled metamorphosis into violent extremists.

And I mean my community quite literally of the 1 ,561 people that have been arrested so far, 121 came from my home state of Texas and about 40 of them came from the

North Texas counties I lived in or attended high school in, but it's broader than just geography.

They were people who like me grew up listening to Rush Limbaugh, cheering on the advent of Fox news.

They were Christians who like me were told that a real Christian could only vote Republican, of course.

There were Christians who like me had been told America's rejection of God and the loosening morals would lead to a country in decline.

God will remove his blessing from America just like he did Old Testament Israel. And this will be catastrophic.

This is what I was raised on. This is what I believed until about 10 years ago. All right, realize what's going on here.

She's taking, she's making a few jumps, but she's tying a number of things together to try to make this argument.

She's starting with 9 -11, which everyone universally agrees was an attack. Then she compares it to the attack on the

Capitol. That's how she frames it, at least on January 6th. And so these are, and so that's the first thing that I would examine and say,

I would laugh that out of the room to be honest, she should be laughed out of the room, frankly, because that's a ridiculous comparison.

And the only way to try to make it work is she's got to try to upplay how much damage and how many lives were lost.

So she says five law enforcement officers lost their lives. Okay. And I've heard, obviously this is

MSNBC type spinning going on. This is what the MSM was doing. I don't even know if the whole

MSM was doing it. MSNBC and the radical left outlets were doing this, where they were saying that five people were killed.

Yeah. There were some people who died afterward who they've categorized as their deaths were related to this, which, you know, it's really at the very least you'd have to say disputed.

But the there's only one person who died in that entire thing that day, uh, during the actual event.

Right. And that was not someone in law enforcement. That was Ashley Babbitt, uh, who apparently,

I don't, I guess her life doesn't count in this. I don't know. Uh, and if they were really attacking, I mean, there's so many,

I've talked about January six. We're not going to go into that anymore, but it's laughable, laughable that she tries to make this comparison.

Uh, and then, then to try to talk about this extremism, which is, she's going to go on to talk about with, with skipping over all the left's actual attacks, actual property destruction, the largest insurance payout this country's ever had.

It wasn't a hurricane. It was a 2020 protests. There is no acknowledgement of any of that. The left is by nature.

Uh, they, they, they have, uh, at least a wing that is by nature, violent.

The people who went in on January sex, if, if they were by nature of violence, there would have been a whole lot more deaths there would have actually been weapons there.

Right. Uh, why, what, why weren't there? How come these people who went in there didn't have firearms? They weren't, uh, there to kill people.

They, and the only one killed is one of their own. That's really curious, a lot different than nine 11, but she has to try to make this tie.

And the second tie she makes, and she wants to tie what happened on January 6th to normal everyday

Christians who listened to Rush Limbaugh. Who are going about their life thinking

Republican party's the only option for a Christian to vote for, obviously on issues like abortion. That's been quite the, the, uh, the take, uh, for a long time in the religious right circles.

She wants to blame them. Wants to blame red state America people that she's lives with in Texas.

And then, and so she's got this, uh, she's like whistleblowing on her own group. And then, so that gives her somewhat of a legitimacy.

Like these are my people. I understand the thinking behind this because I guess a huge part of the country thinks this way.

And that would make you scared. Wouldn't it? If you really thought that Rush Limbaugh listeners who live in red states who are

Christians, which is a fairly large group, could any moment do a nine 11, right?

And you have someone on the inside saying, this is how they are. Frankly, it's disgusting. The event should have been ended right then.

This is an insult to the people who sacrifice so much and paid for their children and paid to build up Wheaton college.

Uh, it's an insult. Like are Christians the only ones who, uh, who like to pay for people to come in and insult them?

Because it seems that way sometimes to me. Like we, uh, well, not me, but these institutions that claim to be

Christian that had some Christian roots, they seem to really enjoy it when someone comes in and tells them how terrible they are.

Very interesting to me that this kind of thing is acceptable. Would it be acceptable anywhere else in any other institution?

Uh, this, this stuff has to end obviously, but it's seems like it's just being ramped up and the

Trump win is not, uh, promoting any kind of self -reflection here.

This is my community. How do a follower, how do followers of a religion based on radical love, the kind of love that says, if someone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them, the other as well, the kind of love that says, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.

A love so otherworldly that Christian teaching says it's actually impossible to live out without the indwelling of the

Holy Spirit. How do people claiming a faith premised on radical love become so angry and violent?

These were my outrage cries and burning questions after January 6th. How did

Christians embrace extremism? The field that I had worked in for 20 years.

I spent the next three years researching and writing a book to better understand how this happened and more importantly,

Kingdom of Rage talks about what we can do about it, how we find that path back to peace. So to answer these questions, there are a couple of things that are important to understand first, fear of the other, hatred of the other by itself is not extremism, though it is a primary gateway drug and science tells us it's unhealthy for you and me, so I would not suggest it.

But. She's not suggesting fearing or hating the other.

And she's saying that she's asking why Christians are angry. I ask you though, to apply the same standard to her as she's speaking.

Is she making any kind of separation here between herself and the good

Christians who don't have that hate and fear and then the bad Christians who do, are they the other now?

And is it OK to demonize them or to be angry at them? If that's the gateway drug, then

I would submit to you, she seems to be on her way to to to at least

I'd say she's just taking the gateway drug. She's on her way to more than just the gateway drug here. So apply the standards that these lefties have to themselves.

And you'll see that it's very discrediting. Extremism is something darker.

It's the belief that your success or survival requires hostile action against the other hostile action.

It's not the belief that I've got to go vote or pray, run for office myself.

The answer, the only answer is hostile action. Now, what is hostile action? Hostile action is on a spectrum.

The lower end includes non -criminal behavior like bullying, harassment, threats, intimidation, discrimination, and the upper end includes criminal activities, vandalism, destruction of property, hate crimes, terrorism and genocide.

And people don't just jump to becoming a terrorist. They always start on the lower end of the spectrum and then they advance up.

Not everybody. Smaller and smaller percentages advance up, usually asking themselves some sort of question.

Am I doing enough for the cause? Or having a leader suggest you're not doing enough for the cause.

And if the answer is no, I'm not, they might progress to that next level of hostile action.

Elizabeth, are you doing enough for the cause? Are you doing enough for this cause against extremism and Christian nationalism and the horrible people that are calling themselves

Christians out there? Are you doing enough, Elizabeth? Oh, I just lost my place.

I got to go find it now. We might enter at a different point here, but you can pick up where this is going.

America's rejection of God. OK, I think we already heard that. Let's go forward a little bit. And includes criminal activities, vandalism, destruction.

OK, we just heard that. Let's go forward a little bit more. Now, I'm going to oversimplify here. Radicalization is not linear.

It is rather complex. But when you boil down all of the academic research into the causes behind various people that have joined terrorist groups or committed terrorist attacks, the most common unmet needs are belonging.

And significance. So when these basic human needs go unmet, we become vulnerable, more cognitively open to the narratives of extremism.

And often this occurs activated by some sort of crisis or event, an experience of humiliation, a loss of control, uncertainty, a sense of unaddressed injustice.

Now, have any of you experienced uncertainty in the last four years? How about loss of control, maybe a loss of a loved one?

Covid was really hard. We like to forget it because it was so hard.

It challenged our ability not only to have community created that great uncertainty, it definitely. She's creating uncertainty.

She's this is the funny thing to me, like everything she says. I'm thinking, right, like you guys are stoking the flames of this and you're giving the impression that there's this huge group of Rush Limbaugh listening

Christians in red states that would just go attack the Capitol and kill people and do a 9 -11 because they're uncertain and they're trying to find a way to cope with the uncertainties and insecurities of their life.

That's obviously crazy. There's no reason to think that's a real threat out there that's of any significance, but now you're creating uncertainty in the minds of people sitting in that room and you're making them worried and concerned for things.

Frankly, they shouldn't be. And there's much, much bigger threats out there that are being completely ignored.

I'm going to skip ahead a bit. I know many of you are like, my ears are bleeding. Let me just let me skip ahead like 10 minutes in this talk and we'll see where she's at.

Black Americans at a top grocery store in May of 2022 wrote in his manifesto that he was not a

Christian but believed in needing to restore a Christian culture. I really think it's critical for us as Christians to be aware of this fact that we actually have extremists who are intentionally walking a fine line.

They are savvy about this. All right. I know what she's talking about. That was in Buffalo.

And so I'm going to tell you something about this that I don't think I've shared. I might know more about this in some parts of this than she does.

So there was a few years ago a guy and this was one of those very it's a rare case, but it actually did happen where it was a white guy, a white kid who went into a grocery store and started shooting people who were black.

And it was kind of like the Dylann Roof scenario, right, where he did have an axe to grind some kind of like a racial, racially charged hatred that led to murder.

It was evil was wrong. I happen to know, though, from a connection,

I have a personal connection, someone who I don't know how I don't know how close to say someone close to the situation who knew about this kid beforehand.

And let me just tell you something where there was a breakdown. This kid was and I think a few of his buddies were saying outrageous things.

They were writing papers in high school, submitting papers for homework that had plans to murder, plans to do horrible things.

They were violent and this was known and it went that this is what

I was told, at least from someone who I trust is very close to the situation. This went unreported.

This and it had to do with the dynamics today in schools and New York schools,

I think are, from what I understand, particularly bad for this, where basically the teachers can't hardly do anything.

They can't touch the kid. They can't discipline the kid, obviously. But if they ever critique the kid, then you have the parents jumping down their throat and there's this environment where you just kind of let things happen and you don't take them seriously.

So I happen to know this about that particular incident, the one she's talking about, and she admits here the guy wasn't a

Christian. The guy is not a Christian. He has a by a pattern that I know about that demonstrates he wasn't a

Christian. And now who's to blame for this? Christians. She says she wanted to restore a

Christian culture. I don't remember that in the manifesto. I'm going to look it up here real quick.

What, what is she talking about? I mean, she already tried to make like the Q Anon shaman was a Christian, which he's not either.

So she's like, in order to make her, her argument work, that Christians are just like ready to do this.

She's brought up two examples that are not Christian. Um, okay.

So I have the manifesto now pulled up and let me see if the word

Christian comes up. Are you a Christian? This is from the manifesto. No, I do not ask

God for salvation by faith, nor do I confess my sins to him. I personally believe there is no afterlife. I do, however, believe in and practice many

Christian values. So that must be what she is. That's it. That's it. Oh my goodness.

Right. Yeah. That's a Christian's fault. Um, man, it sounds like a real Bible belief.

I'm mocking of course, but yeah, it sounds like a real Bible, even Bible believing Christian there, Elizabeth, maybe if he had some

Christianity, this wouldn't have happened. Maybe that's the solution and not the cause of the problem, man.

This is insane. These people, I don't know how we share, uh, platforms with people who think this about us.

They co -opt our symbols, our texts, our Bible verses, and our Christian culture to cover their dark intentions.

The ultimate goal of a white supremacist and an anti -government extremist is to destroy the current U S and set up a new vision of the country that aligns with their values.

So for a white supremacist, they want a white nation state. If you're an anti -government extremist, you want to go back to what you perceived to be the founder's intent, but it does not look like a pluralistic society.

That's the key. That's the key to all of this does not look like a pluralistic pluralistic society.

Elizabeth Newman wants a pluralistic society. This is about presenting liberalism as the default, the normal, and anything that deviates from that as the weird, as the potentially harmful, we're going to like spin off into outer space.

If you have someone that wants a society, that's not pluralistic. Now, the question for Elizabeth Newman is so how far are you willing to go to preserve your pluralistic society?

And, you know, quote unquote democracy in these kinds of things. Does, what if the majority of people vote against democracy as is hypothetical, of course, and want a

Christian nation state that's explicitly Christian, are you going to contradict democracy at that point?

Are you going to say that the will of the people doesn't count in that case? That is what, where is the line?

That's what I'd like to know. Like, what, what is the Christian position here? Because what's being presented to a

Christian university is that the dangerous thing, the thing that's going to kill us all, right, is getting away from pluralism of some kind.

And even if you're not a Christian and you want to get away from pluralism, somehow that signals you kind of like you're, you're in league with, with the

Christians, you're attached to them somehow. Today. And for some of those, they want to go back to male, white, only land, landowner votes, so very different picture of what you might think conservative culture teaches about limited government.

So George Washington lived in a time when it was just assumed landowners got to vote.

Is he, you know, is, is George Washington now in the ideas that he had, are they now connected to, or in league with someone who wants to go shoot up a grocery store or fly a plane into a building?

I would submit to, you know, but for people like Elizabeth Newman, she makes these connections and these are the connections that are holding the liberal order together because people are so deathly afraid that if we step out of it a little bit, we're going to go into violence.

I'm going to skip ahead a little bit. I would like to get through this, Elizabeth Newman, at least.

It's impossible to know though, which ones at the top of the funnel are the ones that are going to make it down to the bottom.

That's a huge problem. Further, we have multiple modern case studies of populism and political violence around the globe, and we know that public support for political violence actually encourages volatile people to move to violence.

I believe we saw some of that this week, this year with the assassination attempts on, uh, now the president elect

Trump. That's why we find ourselves in a precarious moment.

Thank you. Now I've listened to this before, by the way. So I know what she's saying and stuff.

That's the one time that she doesn't like it. Notice how she leaves it kind of out there.

She doesn't blame a group. There's no actual group responsible for the assassination attempts on Trump.

It's this abstract thing. It's political violence. That's just in the, the world of the,

I don't know, like the world of ideas and everything else is rooted.

Everything from the right is rooted in it's the Christians. It's like this group of people, but not that that's just, that's the, it's a, it's like whenever a violent act happens with a gun and it doesn't fit the left's narrative, it's the gun's fault, right?

2 % 32 % of Americans believe violence is usually or always justified to advance a political objective.

That's 84 million people. 3 % of Americans believe political violence is justified now.

I wonder how many of them are on the left. I really wonder what the breakdown of that is. I don't think she'll tell us.

We'll see. That's 8 million people. There are 800 ,000 sworn law enforcement officers in this country.

We simply do not have enough security forces or protective capability to guard against 8 million, let alone 84 million potentially violent people.

The only way to solve this problem is not through security. This is insane.

This is absolutely. So 8 million people answered a poll supposedly that I haven't seen that said there's times at which violence is acceptable, right?

And the left, you always hear this cause literally Hitler is in office. And if literally Hitler's there, then what do you think is going to happen?

Right? So these 8 million people, they can't be stopped by 800 that, or whatever she said, 80 ,000 law enforcement officers.

Um, yeah, they're all gonna arise at once. They're, they're all organized. They all have goals and objectives and they all somehow can get on the same page and, uh, decide collectively that they're going to push for violence.

This is ridiculous. This is, this is fear mongering. This is like textbook fear mongering.

Some people on a poll said that there's times in which violence is justified equals there's eight, what'd she say?

8 million people that are ready to rise up and kill all the police officers that you have in your country. Yeah.

If I was taking this woman seriously, I would be probably becoming neurotic.

I would be afraid to leave my house. That's what this, and that's apparently the basis for the extremism in the first place is this fear.

She's the one stoking it. It's rather that we have to reduce the pool of people who have embraced extremism and are cognitively open to violence.

Sounds like you need a final solution there. Elizabeth Newman, you gotta reduce the, uh, the, the, the amount of people who have embraced this.

Now, of course there are, you'll hear her solutions for this. And that's okay. Sure. Fine.

Let's reduce the amount of people who want to appeal to violence, but under her own logic, not my logic, her logic.

How is that not some kind of a dog whistle to really deal with this matter?

Thankfully, mass violence remains a pretty rare event. And yet the number of mass shootings in the

U S doubled in a span of seven years. Were you tracking that?

Yeah. How many of them were in 2020? I would, I wonder a little bit. I wonder a little bit, just a little bit. I don't know.

I don't know. But, uh, this, and I haven't read that stat by the way, my understanding was, uh, they were going down a little bit.

So, um, could this be the Ferguson effect? Hmm. I wonder if that has something to do with it.

Probably not. And what communities? I wanted to know that too. That would be like a good solution, right? If we're going to solve this problem, what communities is it?

The Christians that you've talked about so much, are they the ones that are going and shooting people so often now? Is it them?

You haven't been able to give one example of Christians. Uh, where is this happening? What geographic locations?

Oh, it's inner cities where they backed off their police force. Wow. That's interesting. Domestic terrorism incidents increased by 357 % between 2013 and 2021.

Threats to federal officials. So this is legislative executive and judicial officials increased by 400 % from 2017 to 2023 we've.

What are we cataloging as a terrorist event? Is this 2020 we're talking about? And also I would wonder, you know, is there like, is there any correlation between more people are on the internet now, more people have access to social media now, what constitutes a threat?

Is it someone saying something dumb online? Because yeah, that happens all the time. That doesn't mean there's a rise in people that have those sentiments necessarily.

It could be that, you know, about them more now. Grown numb. We've also bought into this lie that there's nothing to do.

We've let the political tribes tell us. There are just bad people out there. There's nothing we can do about it.

And oh, we just need gun control. And those are our only two options. And so what do we do when we feel powerless?

We just kind of check out. Meanwhile, we have kids dying. We have families being threatened in the womb or outside the womb.

And it didn't use to be this way. And I want to challenge you that it doesn't have to be this way.

I personally believe we can change this in the next generation. 10, 15 years is what we need.

So there's good news. The first part of the good news is that people can change. We can prevent and disrupt radicalization and we can help those that are radicalized to disengage from it.

With an understanding of those underlying drivers I mentioned, we now know better how to help people that are vulnerable.

Now, think about what she's saying. We're going to reprogram people. We're going to we're going to do the whole, you know,

I don't know if it's going to be Soviet style, but we're going to do some kind of like a reeducation. But if the extremists are eight million people.

If the extremists are Christian red state Rush Limbaugh listeners. You realize the scope and scale of such a reeducation program, don't you?

Like this would be, this is massive. This means like, like, like to me, this is a narrative that would ultimately play into like the national, the general government must do something.

Cause this is such a big threat. That's how she's presenting it. Like, this is, this is big.

This is like ominous. And the good news is we have the technology.

We can reprogram these people. There are absolutely governmental responsibilities here.

Congress is woefully underfunding a public health approach to violence prevention. We are currently funding.

There it is. Congress. 3 % of the annual recommended amount. And we are a decade behind Europe, the

UK and Canada, but perhaps the work that really needs to be done.

It's not necessarily something government can do. The Europe, the UK and Canada, really the, those are, those are the places where you just don't see any extremism, right?

They're the models. We're just behind them. If we were just more like Canada, Europe, and the UK. It really is at the community and individual level.

When you ask a former extremist, why they left extremism, why they left that path of violence.

They will often tell you because they had an unexpected encounter with empathy.

When you, I was walking down the street the other day, getting a slice of pizza and, you know, thinking about how extreme

I am, you know, like missing Rush Limbaugh. Cause I used to listen to him on the radio and thinking like, you know, he used to encourage me to go do terrorist stuff and, uh, you know,

I'm just walking down the street and then all of a sudden empathy came. Empathy came in and brushed up aside, beside me.

And I've never been the same. You just, that encounter has changed me forever. Ask the counselors that work with them.

They will say, yes, that's true. And also they experienced accountability. Maybe they lost a job because the business owner saw the white supremacist tattoo.

Oh, so part of the re -education means we start canceling people. We start firing people.

That that'll do it. Yeah. They have a, a tattoo that we consider white supremacist. Maybe what would those be?

I guess, Emma, what is the national security or, uh, what, what, what organization was it?

The department of Homeland security. What was the list that they put out a few years ago? The three percenters, right?

The, uh, I think the don't tread on me thing was part of that. And, and like, it was like all these like patriotic

American revolution type symbols were on the white supremacy hate list. Uh, I'm sure any

Southern Confederate type stuff would be on that. So we just fire those people that are probably legitimate patriots, many of them.

We just, if we just fired them, we can avoid the catastrophe of another nine 11 because of 8 million angry people.

Yeah. Great. Maybe their marriage disintegrated because they were so focused on this ideology and it was making them more hateful and difficult to love.

So there's usually, yeah, I know some feminists like that, to be quite honest, like they were, uh,

I mean, does this happen on the left at all? Is it like it's no, it's the people with the tattoos of the hate, uh, symbols.

That's, those are the people that marriages are failing. There is some type of accountability, but there's also, it's also matched with empathy.

Nothing says empathy, like firing someone to put it in biblical terms.

It's truth combined with love. I believe much of this needs to be led by us.

I think Christians and those who consider themselves part of that conservative or center right community have a responsibility here.

We need to see the damage that has been done. We need to repent of our role in it.

And I would challenge you not to brush that aside. So she's telling

Wheaton college, we, as in collectively Christians and this institution are somehow responsible for the extremism or everything.

She's talked about. There's a responsibility. Christians have, they need to repent of it's a sin. They are in sin somehow.

So I don't know how to make any sense of this other than to say, uh, if it's people on the center, right?

So it's your normies, it's your moderate red state Rush Limbaugh, listening Christians and the people at Wheaton college who are responsible somehow for this, then read between the lines guys.

Who she's talking about. This is also in the context of the election that's just happened. Who is she talking about?

What is she talking about? We need to fire people. We need to reeducate people.

Uh, the government needs to fund this. Who did what? Who elected who? Think about it.

We'll get to why in a second. And we need to be ministers of reconciliation within the church and the broader community.

Now this, this really is a mission for anybody. You don't have to be a former Republican like me or a Christian to bring healing to our country.

A former Republican. The epidemic of violence is actually driven by many other factors that have nothing to do with the

Christian community. It's directly tied to our individualistic and isolated culture. It's stripped us of deep community and our hyper achievement culture sends these signals that you don't value unless you accomplish something that matters.

So it's not just the fact that you're a Christian, that you're guilty and need to repent. It's also, you're an

American. It's your culture because we already heard that Canada, Europe, England, so far ahead of us.

Uh, you're it's this hyper individualistic culture, which oftentimes when, when people on the left talk, they're talking about that's, this is

American individualism, man. So, uh, man, it's just, we gotta be reprogrammed on such a fundamental mental level, the

Christianity, the individualism. It's just, ah, man, how do we not cascade into outer space?

Or at least you can make yourself appear like you matter on Instagram for a variety of complex reasons.

Despite the unprecedented amount of individual freedom we now have, it is actually harder to meet our needs of belonging and significance.

She's right about that. She is right about that. And the question

I guess would be, so how do you restore those communal bonds that have been broken? Is it by firing people and reeducating them?

Is it, what is it? What is it exactly? That's going to do that. And I would submit to you, and it's what

I've been pushing is you got to think local. You got to restore voluntary organizations. You need to solve your problems in house.

Don't run to the government for them, but her solutions are run to the government. She wants more of what is, uh, damaging those communal bonds.

The message of this American dream, the message that the world has sent us, told us it's failing us.

And our kids, especially young men are feeling it the worst. So there it is.

The American dream is to blame. It's all the things you guys like, uh, are to blame.

She's going to say barbecues to blame next, and I'm going to lose it. Each of you in this room is very, very unlikely to go out and commit an act of violence.

But here's my challenge. And here's where I want us to reflect and be open to repentance. I think that we have unwittingly contributed to the milieu that breeds extremism and incites violence.

There are the maybe outward ways, the way we treat our fellow human beings, particularly if we disagree with them, particularly if they're from a different political tribe.

It's also like what you're doing now. So when we harbor contempt in our hearts towards others, that contempt finds its way out in our actions.

But here's the thing that I think most of us are probably guilty of. It's our inaction.

When we prioritize our own accomplishment, our success, our kids' success, our kids' accomplishments, over relationships, over deep community, over caring for those in need, because doing all of those things takes a lot of time.

It's our lack of active love for our neighbors. It's our lack of being invested in our local community.

And I'm looking around this room and I know that there are people that came from this local community. And I thank you for being invested in this community.

You guys all want your kids to do well in life. Shame on you. Shame on you. Got to stop investing yourself in your progeny and start investing in your community.

What does that sound like to you? I mean, I just can't get away from the fact that this sounds like almost every 20th century totalitarian.

So here's something. This is cool, right? Cool to think about. Jesus said, if you love family more than me, you're not worthy of me.

Right. And what's the interpretation of that? Was Jesus saying, don't love your family? No, because that would contradict so many other things in scripture.

Jesus is saying that your love for him supersedes your love for those who you are most closely attached to.

That's why there's a significant thing that Jesus, like that's why it was powerful when Jesus said it.

Uh, I'm the God who made you. I am allegiance to me is the fundamental, most important thing.

Every totalitarian government. Okay. And I don't care if you're talking about, uh, ones that are framed as rights, don't ones that are framed as left, whether you're national socialists, international socialists, totalitarian governments, 20th century totalitarian governments.

Now, 21st century totalitarian governments, the thing that they want from you more than anything else.

And now, and I would have to say liberal governments in the West, just read, uh, the demon in democracy, right?

We're by Legutko. It's the same thing. Um, arrived at, I think through a different path, it's more, it's more gradual, but the thing they want from you is ultimate allegiance.

It's veneration. It's. It's basically worship though. They are not going to use that word because they believe in a separation of church and state and liberal democracies, at least, but they want you to, uh, elevate their principles of democracy and pluralism.

And then in the case of other totalitarian governments that don't have that, whatever principle, whatever, whatever enchanting principle they have, the bulk, the, um, and the, the will of the bulk, the, the party and what the party wants.

Like they want you to put that in the position that Jesus put himself. You must hate father and mother, turn them into the

Stasi for the sake of loving the state for the sake of loving this organizing principle that we knuckleheads with our abstract ideas that we thought up that don't even have good precedent half the time in any kind of traditional or experimental sense, but we figured out the key to organizing a society.

You got to love those things and the people who give you those things beyond your family. I'm getting,

I'm hearing echoes of that here with Elizabeth Newman, right? She would say, she's probably arguing against the extremism that comes with totalitarianism and so forth.

Uh, and to her credit, she did say get involved locally, but what she's saying though, her solutions are, we were not funding this on the national level enough, this where we're, uh, we need to spend less time on our children and more time in our, our communities with, with loving other people, and that means even attending the event that she's speaking at.

This is, this is our big problem is we're just loving the, the proximate people to us.

We're spending more time on the, on our own betterment, on our children's betterment, on the things proximate to us.

And we need to be more focused on the things that are a little more distant from us. And if we do that, then we'll avoid all this stuff.

You need to love those things above what your, your children. I mean, you know, your children's success is what she's talking about, but who, what parent does not want their children to be successful and isn't willing to sacrifice everything for it.

So their children can be successful. I'm sorry if, if you know, and everything with the exception of what the one organizing principle that we, or it's not even a principle to person,

Jesus Christ. Right. That's what Christians understand that Jesus takes preeminence, but every parent worth their salt has a natural instinct.

And frankly, as on the level of providing a God -given command to make their children successful on a certain level, you should be concerned with that stuff.

And frankly, I'm more concerned about my kid's success than I am the success of my next door neighbor.

And I'm not apologizing for it. And you know, these people, Elizabeth Newman, these people that have these, these fancy ideas, they think that are going to just solve their problems.

They ended up making more problems. So your kid grows up and what dad didn't want my success. Dad was too busy with other people.

Now, what is the kid going to be like? Oh, I don't know. Maybe a target demographic group for violence.

Oh, these people, I cannot stand. They're supposedly experts and experts at our Christian institutions, and they're insane.

They're absolutely insane with the, I'm not saying that she like should be committed, but I'm saying like what her ideas are fit for the laboratory and not fit for the, sorry, their ideas are fit for the classroom where not the lab,

I will tell you, I find it extremely hard in my professional career.

And I think it's extremely hard for young people, college students about to enter the professional careers.

To prioritize this over their professional success. All right.

We're going to end this thing. Uh, I want to play for you though. This is the last sponsor.

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If you want to change the world, that's how you do it. I'm not saying don't pursue your career goals or what

God has called you to. But our lack of active love for our neighbors, that's what creates.

Okay. You, you Christians need to repent. You don't love your neighbors. Let's skip ahead to the end here. Okay, here we go.

How does she end this? To seek the welfare of the city where we have been sent into exile and to pray to the

Lord on its behalf. This group probably knows this already, but it's worth reminding ourselves that that term welfare in Jeremiah 29, seven, it's the

Hebrew word shalom, which elsewhere is translated peace, but it's a deeper peace.

It's a wholeness. It's an integrity. Okay. So she ends this by just appealing to things, things that Christians found find familiar that sound nice.

And, uh, and we'll, I think, put a veneer over the insane things that she's said.

Now there is a, uh, another speech that I have listened to and it's a doozy.

Uh, and there's also a panel at the end, which I haven't listened to all of it, but a little bit of it. So what

I'm thinking is we've been going an hour and a half, a little over an hour and a half. Uh, we are not going to, uh, dive into that.

I will save that perhaps. I, I hope I don't, I mean, it depends on the news cycle.

Maybe we'll lose it, but, uh, if we have time, I'll go over the next speech and I'll just tell you a preview.

Yes, it's, it's about as bad in my opinion. And it's different, but it's pretty bad. This is what

Wheaton's putting out there. I don't know. I don't know if there's any pressure that can be applied except from the outside at this point.

I wouldn't send your kid to Wheaton. That's just me. I think you got to be careful wherever you send your kids. I wouldn't send them to Wheaton.

If you're looking for a Christian school to be quite frank, not just because of this, because of other things I know as well, but that's my opinion.

Uh, maybe you can go there and navigate it, but at this point, what are you funding? And there's other, there's better options out there for your kid.

I mean, honestly, Liberty university would even be a better option than Wheaton, uh, to send your kid.

So, uh, let's, let's end this. Oh, someone said, someone said insert. I apologizing gift.

You know what? I haven't played it on the podcast, but maybe I should just play it. I know I released this video on the channel.

So some of you already saw it, but, uh, I haven't, haven't played on the podcast. And for those who don't know, yes, I recorded 10 songs in Tim Bush, young studio, and I'm going to release the rest of them.

We're hoping for a January 1st date for the whole album. But, uh, I did release one song early just cause it was before the election.

And actually William Wolfe told me you got to release it. Come on. He heard me play it. And he's like, you got to release that, uh, before the election.

So, um, if I can find it in my folder, we'll play the song I released now.

It is appropriate for, uh, what we just listened to. And then, uh, I will just say,

I hope you're having a great kickoff to the Christmas season. Uh, God bless.

Well, a man told me on the internet, at least that's what I think he was.

And my views were too offensive. He said I should lose my job, but he promised not to report me.

If I would do this one thing, give up my opinions and my faith and liberty.

And this is what I told him. I ain't apologizing for what

I didn't do wrong. The Bible on my dashboard, the flag out on my lawn.

And you can bet I'll dig my boots in, cause my daddy didn't raise no son.

Who'd disrespect his country or turn his tail and run.

They say the country's filled with haters and only they know how to love.

Folks like me are trouble cause we just don't go along.

So they want to take our children and teach them how to hate.

The families they grew up in and how to love the state.

And beheading when doctors can't do their jobs. Monuments keep falling.

Police surrender to the mob. And parents can't trust teachers and teachers can't trust kids.

And kids can't tell their parents what bathroom they went in.

I ain't apologizing for what I didn't do wrong.

The Bible on my dashboard, the flag out on my lawn.

And you can bet I'll dig my boots in, cause my daddy didn't raise no son. Who'd disrespect his country or turn his tail and run.

Would think if they could see us here, fighting wars a world away.

While our own borders disappear. Well I bet they'd have opinions and I bet they'd state their case.

Which would likely get them canceled in today's United States.

I ain't apologizing for what I didn't do wrong.

I'll dig my boots in, cause my daddy didn't raise no son. Who'd disrespect his country or turn his tail and run.

For what I didn't do wrong. I'll dig my boots in, cause my daddy didn't raise no son.

Who'd disrespect his country or turn his tail and run.

Cause my daddy didn't raise no son Who disrespect his country, or turn his tail and run.