WWUTT 1955 Q&A Southern Baptist Meeting Recap, He Became Sin, Christian Comedians

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What happened at the Southern Baptist Convention Annual Meeting? What does 2 Corinthians 521 mean when it says that Jesus became sin?

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And can we listen to Christian comedians? The answers when we understand the text. Many of the

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Bible stories and verses we think we know, we don't. When we understand the text is committed to teaching sound doctrine and rebuking those who contradict it.

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Visit our website at www .utt .com. Here once again is

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Pastor Gabe. Thank you Becky who is not with me in studio. I'm flying solo for this episode of the

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Q &A. Typically on Friday we take questions from the listeners. And you can submit those questions too when we understand the text at gmail .com.

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Becky and I just got back from the Southern Baptist Convention Annual Meeting in New Orleans this past week.

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And originally the plan was we would get back on Thursday. We would spend time with the kids.

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We'd give them the presents we got. We would chat with Becky's mom and dad who were here watching the kids for us so we could go to New Orleans.

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And then once everybody was in bed, we would pop in the studio. And we would do a quick recap of the things that happened in New Orleans.

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Well, that didn't happen. We spent time with the kids. We talked to Becky's mom and dad. And then we were just too tired.

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We went to bed. I thought maybe something would happen at some point in the weekend where we would still find time to be able to do a recap of the week.

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And yeah, nothing ever came about. So now I'm throwing this episode together real quick.

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I'm just going to do a brief recap and then get to some questions. As Becky and I have shared in previous episodes, even if you are not

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Southern Baptist, this is still relevant. Because the Southern Baptists are considered to be the largest

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Protestant denomination in North America. So what you see happening among Southern Baptists is going to have an effect on the rest of evangelicalism.

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Also going on this past week was the PCA's annual meeting. The Protestant—sorry, Protestant—the Presbyterian Church of America also had their annual meeting in Memphis.

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So while the Southern Baptists were meeting in New Orleans, the Presbyterians were meeting in Memphis. I have not caught up on everything that happened at the

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PCA, so I might give an update on that at another time once I get kind of caught up on some of the big events that happened for them there.

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Now, with regards to the Southern Baptists, last year was in Anaheim. And after that annual meeting in Anaheim, you would have thought the

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Southern Baptists were going liberal. But if you know what happened in New Orleans, you would have had the opinion that, no, the

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Southern Baptists are really holding on to their conservative principles. The conservatives accomplished everything they came to accomplish, for the most part, in New Orleans.

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Not everything went the conservatives' way. For example, the conservatives wanted to have Mike Stone installed as president in place of Bart Barber, but Bart held on another year.

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The vote was like 70 -30, so Stone didn't even come anywhere close to unseating Bart Barber.

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But most everything else, with motions and amendments and things like that, went the conservatives' way.

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There was the Mike Law amendment, which was going to change the

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Constitution, the Southern Baptist Constitution, not the Baptist Faith and Message 2000, but the Constitution, to say that if a church had a woman as a pastor, then that church is not considered in friendly cooperation with the

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Southern Baptist Convention. And Mike Law's amendment passed. There was another amendment to the

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Baptist Faith and Message 2000. And it wasn't a big change, but it was just clarifying some language.

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So under Article 6, where it talks about the church, and it clarifies there about the officers of the church being pastors and deacons, and it says that a pastor must be a biblically qualified man.

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And only pastor and deacon are used there. So the language was changed to clarify that pastor also means elder or overseer.

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So now when you go to Article 6 of the BFM 2000, it says that the church's two scriptural offices are that of pastor -elder -overseer and deacon.

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While both men and women are gifted for service in the church, the office of pastor -elder -overseer is limited to men as qualified by scripture.

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Now, why is that relevant? Why that change to the BFM 2000? Because the argument was being made that as long as the senior pastor is a man, then you can have women pastors that are serving in other areas.

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The senior pastor has to be a man, but you can have a children's pastor, a women's pastor. You can even have an associate pastor who's a woman, as long as the senior pastor is a man.

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But with this language change to the BFM 2000, it's to clearly state that when we're talking about a pastor, we're talking about a person who's qualified as an elder or an overseer.

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It is not a word that you can twist to say senior pastor. And this is the original intent of those authors of the

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BFM 2000 when this was passed by the convention, what is that now, 23 years ago.

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So this is what they intended. But there's some people who've come along since then, and they're trying to say, well, see, pastor there is only senior pastor.

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So as long as the senior pastor is a man, then we can have all these other women pastors as well. So there was that change that happened to the

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BFM 2000. There was also the change to the Constitution in which it would be said in the

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SBC Constitution that a church that has a woman pastor would not be in friendly cooperation with the

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SBC. And so such a church with women pastors on staff would be removed.

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Mike Law's amendment passed. However, in order for the change to take place in the

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Constitution, it has to pass two years in a row. So it gained the two thirds majority at New Orleans.

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It must also have a two thirds majority in Indianapolis. And I'm skeptical as to whether it will.

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And I'll explain that here in just a moment. So there were some churches that were deemed not in friendly cooperation with the

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SBC because they were ordaining women as pastors. Three of those churches took to the microphones.

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Well, one of those churches was actually had a pastor who had been accused of of sexual abuse.

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And so that's why that church was removed. But the two that were removed because of having a woman as pastor, they made their appeals at the microphones.

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The most notorious of those church, the most famous, the most well -known of those churches was

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Saddleback Church, the church that was founded by Rick Warren in California. Warren, though he is retired,

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I think he still holds the title of like pastor emeritus or something like that at Saddleback. He made the appeal on behalf of Saddleback Church and then responding to him was

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Dr. Albert Moeller. I'm going to go ahead and play that exchange. So Warren got three minutes at a microphone and he went over time.

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So his microphone got cut off. They were strict about that this year. And I'm very thankful for that. This was satisfying to a lot of us in the room who were really frustrated with the fact that Warren got so much time at a microphone last year to bloviate and just carry on about himself.

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Dr. Moeller had three minutes to respond and he managed to keep his response under time. Therefore, his microphone does not get cut off.

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And the messengers that were there at the convention voted 88 percent to 12 to uphold

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Saddleback being removed from friendly cooperation with the

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Southern Baptist Convention. Like that vote wasn't even close. But here's the debate leading up to that vote between Rick Warren and Albert Moeller.

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And you're also going to hear President Bart Barber in this. I know you can see that we're over time, but our bylaw requires us to finish this action.

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So we're going to continue until we're done. The Credentials Committee recommended that Saddleback Church be found not in friendly cooperation with the

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Southern Baptist Convention. The Executive Committee adopted the recommendation and found that Saddleback Church is not in friendly cooperation with the

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Southern Baptist Convention. Saddleback Church has filed an appeal with the convention within the required 30 days prior to the annual meeting of the

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Southern Baptist Convention. The question is, shall the decision of the Credentials Committee and the

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Executive Committee that Saddleback Church is not in cooperation with the Southern Baptist Convention be sustained?

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Our rules apply a limitation of debate on this matter to one representative of the church question and one representative of the

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Credentials Committee or the Executive Committee. The chair recognizes Rick Warren for three minutes.

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And following his conclusion, the chair will recognize the Executive Committee and Credentials Committee for three minutes to respond.

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For 178 years, the SBC has been a blend of at least a dozen different tribes of Baptists.

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If you think every Baptist thinks like you, you're mistaken. What we share in common is a mutual commitment to the inerrancy and the infallibility of God's Word and to the

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Great Commission of Jesus Christ. No one is asking any Southern Baptist to change their theology.

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I'm not asking you to agree with my church. I am asking you to act like a

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Southern Baptist who have historically agreed to disagree on dozens of doctrines in order to share a common mission.

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Since Southern Baptists have always allowed disagreement on doctrines, including the essential doctrines of salvation, why should this one issue cancel our fellowship?

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In 2013, when the Calvinists were under fire, Baptists agreed to disagree and the split was averted.

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Now, ten years later, will we treat egalitarian Baptists with the same grace we showed the

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Calvinists? We should remove churches for all kinds of sexual sin, racial sin, financial sin, leadership sin, sins that harm the testimony of our convention.

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But the 1 ,928 churches with women on pastoral staff have not sinned.

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If doctrinal disagreements between Baptists are considered sin, we all get kicked out. You'll never get 100 % of Baptists to agree 100 % on 100 % of doctrine.

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That's why our Constitution says that churches must closely identify, not completely identify, with our confession.

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Now, the Baptist faith and message is 4 ,032 words. Saddleback disagrees with one word.

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That's 99 .999999999 in agreement. Isn't that close enough?

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Al Mohler, who for some reason gets to speak twice and do the rebuttals, claims the phrase, the office of the pastor is limited to men, that that also includes every staff position too, and somehow it also prevents any woman from teaching.

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But I was able to contact about half, over half, of the original drafting committee of the

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Baptist faith and message 2000, and seven of them told me Al was wrong. In fact, before the vote on the 2000

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Baptist faith and message, even Al in his hometown newspaper said it didn't limit women from being assistant pastors.

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Go read it in the Courier -Journal. If this precedent is set, Southern Seminary will have to change the name of the

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Billy Graham School, since Billy Graham trained women pastors at our global training events, and he endorsed the preaching ministry of his daughter, saying

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Ann is the best preacher in the Graham family. Vote no. If this precedent is set, we'll have to rename our two offices.

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I'm very sorry, but the time has expired. The chair now recognizes the executive committee, credentials committee, for a response.

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Thank you, Mr. President. As the chairman of the executive committee, I would like to again recognize

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Dr. Albert Moeller as the representative of the executive committee to respond to the appeal. Thank you,

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Mr. Chairman. I just want to say that my position was there misrepresented, but nonetheless, it is important to state for the record that Albert Moeller does not say what the

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Baptist faith and message means. The Southern Baptist Convention says what the Baptist faith and message means, and is quite competent to accomplish that task.

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In the year 2000, the words, the office of pastor is limited to men as qualified by Scripture, was inserted because 30 years ago, this issue threatened to tear this denomination apart.

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The definition of friendly cooperation came down to the fact that that was an issue that would endanger the cooperative cohesion and faithfulness of the church.

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of the Southern Baptist Convention. And in particular, we look to this issue because Southern Baptist decided this is not just a matter of church polity.

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It is not just a matter of hermeneutics. It's a matter of biblical commitment. A commitment to the

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Scripture that unequivocally, we believe, limits the office of pastor to men. It is an issue of biblical authority.

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It is one that has actually led to the unity of the Southern Baptist Convention as Southern Baptists have gone forward with an issue of clarity here, which has greatly made our doctrine and order a matter of unity and harmony.

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It is the unity and harmony of the Southern Baptist Convention that is now at stake. And we're in an unusual situation.

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Once again, this is not a convention responsibility to offer a comprehensive verdict on the ministry of Rick Warren or Saddleback Community Church.

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We can thank God for every good gospel thing that is represented by that church and its ministry.

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It is a question about the Southern Baptist Convention and what it means for a church to be in friendly cooperation in doctrine and in order with this convention.

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And here we face the unusual situation in which Dr. Warren himself has made repeated statements and the church has taken repeated actions that make very clear that it rejects the confessional understanding of the

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Southern Baptist Convention on this issue. This isn't a question of misunderstanding. The Credentials Committee and the

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Executive Committee took action based upon the actions of Saddleback Community Church in establishing a woman as a campus pastor and having women with the title of pastor to teach in the teaching role on Sunday morning.

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And then Pastor Warren going on to say more expansively that the church basically and he endorses and calls for a more comprehensive egalitarianism.

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I'm confident that's not where the Southern Baptist Convention is going to go. I believe that it is a statement without rancor and without personal attack, without making a comprehensive verdict on a congregation that is no longer among us.

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We simply say that our Credentials Committee and Executive Committee have done the right thing.

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We need to do that. So the messengers after that voted to uphold or affirm the decision that was made by the

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Executive Committee and by the Credentials Committee saying that they were in the right to remove

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Saddleback Church from friendly cooperation with the SBC. Saddleback was ousted, like I said, at a ratio of 88 to 12.

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It wasn't even close. I think Warren could have had more sympathizers than he did if he had just let his reputation speak for itself because there were a lot of pastors in that room who no doubt had used purpose -driven church and purpose -driven life in their churches.

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And so the vote probably could have been a lot closer just from Warren's sympathizers saying like,

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Hey, why are we getting rid of Rick Warren? He's done so many good things for our churches. I don't agree.

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I think those books are trash and no church should be using them. But there are a lot of churches that have.

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So I thought that Warren would have a lot more supporters. However, he opened his big fat mouth.

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And Becky and I had played even the interview that he had with Russell Moore here on this program and responded to some of the things that he said.

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All the stuff that Warren said leading up to the convention was horrible. Some of the things that he was saying, twisting

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Baptist history and even Baptist doctrine and things like that to try to say that he's in friendly cooperation with the

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SBC for having women pastors at his church. The senior pastors at Saddleback now are a husband and wife duo.

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They're the senior pastors of Saddleback. It's Andy and Stacey Wood. So it was decided

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Saddleback was not in friendly cooperation with our Statement of Faith. They were outside of the

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Baptist Faith and Message 2000. Now that debate that you just heard was on Tuesday.

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That was when the messengers voted. And we voted by ballot. So it wasn't holding up the ballots like we do with most measures.

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This one was a written ballot. So the ballots had to be counted. And then we wouldn't hear the results until Wednesday morning.

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When those results were announced that all three churches were going to be removed from SBC fellowship, there was applause in the room.

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And President Bart Barber stopped the applause and said we're not going to throw divorce parties. I didn't really agree with that because you're trying to read the hearts of the people who are applauding and thinking that they have something malicious in there is the reason why they're clapping.

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We can applaud because the biblical Statement of Faith that we have was upheld.

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That's a good reason to applause. Now what I would have liked to have seen was if Bart Barber had led the convention in prayer and asked that those churches that had to be removed would be repentant.

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That they would repent of their sin. Because they were sinning. Contrary to what

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Rick Warren said, they were going against what scripture says about how the role of pastor is limited to biblically qualified men.

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And so that we as a convention would pray for those churches that had been removed that they would come to repentance.

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As a pastor I have had to oversee, I've had to shepherd the removal of members in the past because of sin.

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And they were unwilling to be repentant. And so the church voted to remove them from our fellowship and then we prayed for their repentance.

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I would have liked to have seen Dr. Barber lead us in something like that instead of giving the rebuke that he did.

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So like I said, everything kind of went a very conservative direction for the most part in New Orleans.

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However, there was a motion that was made and the results of this motion could actually undo.

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There could be something in this motion that could undo all of the conservative accomplishments that were made in New Orleans.

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This was a motion that was made on Wednesday and it involved three former presidents of the

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Southern Baptist Convention. James Merritt, J .D. Greer, and Ed Litton. They all came to a microphone.

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It was James Merritt speaking and he wanted a study committee to be formed to determine what does it mean to be in friendly cooperation with the

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Southern Baptist Convention. I'll go ahead and play his motion for you here. This is James Merritt.

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Mr. President, I am a complementarian to the core. I am fully committed to every jot and tittle of the

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Baptist faith and message. But it's become apparent to me we are in desperate need going forward of two things, clarity and consistency.

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So I move that the convention authorize the SBC president to appoint a broadly representative task force from across our convention to study the issue of how this convention should deem churches to be in friendly cooperation on questions of faith and practice as laid out in Article 3 .1

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of the Constitution referencing our adopted statement of faith and to bring back recommendations to the 2024

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SBC Emanuel meeting in Indianapolis for how we can move forward together in biblical fidelity, missional clarity, and cooperative unity.

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So the results of that could end up going against everything that was accomplished in New Orleans.

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We don't know. There's some foreshadowing, though, of the drama that you can expect in Indianapolis with the

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Southern Baptist Convention annual meeting next year. So after Anaheim, you would have walked out of the

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Southern Baptist Convention annual meeting in Anaheim and thought that the convention had just accepted women pastors and any church with a woman pastor would be in friendly cooperation with the

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SBC. You would have thought that with the way debate went at Anaheim. That was my conclusion after the annual meeting at Anaheim.

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But after New Orleans, you would have walked out of that convention thinking, well, a church can't have a woman as a pastor and still be in friendly cooperation with the

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SBC. It's an interesting battleground, and we're not done yet. Mike Law's amendment passed in New Orleans, but in order for that amendment to officially change the

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Constitution, it has to pass two years in a row. So it has to pass next year at Indianapolis, which could be a little more liberal ground.

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You could have some more liberal churches at Indianapolis than we ended up having in a very conservative

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New Orleans. Now, the city itself is not conservative, but because we were in the

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Deep South, you had mostly staunch conservative churches showing up in the membership for the annual meeting in New Orleans.

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Like I said, it could be a little bit different in Indianapolis. Now, when the vote was taken for the change to the

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Constitution, it had to be a two -thirds majority vote. Becky and I were sitting nearly at the back of the room.

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We were at the very back of the room at the time that we were voting for Mike Law's amendment.

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And so from my vantage point, I had a hard time believing that that was actually two -thirds of the room.

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But the president, by eye, you know, he's just looking out, determined that was a two -thirds majority.

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So he gave it to the conservatives. Hard to say if it's going to come out that way in Indianapolis, but we'll have to wait and see.

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Will two -thirds of the convention accept Mike Law's amendment changing the Constitution and what it means to be in friendly cooperation with the

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SBC? The change that happened to the BFM 2000 with the clarifying language concerning pastor, that's already taken effect, and you can see the changes already online.

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But with regards to the change to the Constitution, that's something that has to happen two years in a row, so this drama continues.

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And we'll wait to see what happens at the annual meeting in 2024. This is a serious issue, and Dr.

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Moeller had kind of laid it out there for us because this is over a matter of biblical obedience.

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Are we going to be in obedience to what the Bible says about the biblical qualifications of a pastor?

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Or are we going to go the way that many of these mainline churches have and some of these other liberal denominations that have accepted women in the role of pastor?

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And then what happens shortly after that? Within a few decades, that very denomination ends up accepting

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LGBTQ issues as well. It's a pretty important battleground in the

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Southern Baptist Convention, so continue to pray for the SBC, even if you are not

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Southern Baptist. There you go. There's my brief recap of things that happened in New Orleans.

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Now let's get to a few of your questions. I've got three of them here. The first one is from Anthony in Chicago.

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He says, Hello, Gabe. If you're going to church that has a different hermeneutic and eschatology than what you believed, would you become a member?

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The church that I'm going to has a premill dispensationalism view with a similar statement of faith as John MacArthur's church,

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Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California. Anthony goes on, In fact, if you were asked to become an elder, you would have to affirm premill dispensationalism to become an elder, which

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I do not see in Scripture as a prerequisite for the office. You brought up two weeks ago in the

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Q &A that your church has elders with different views of the end times, which got me thinking about this.

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I would view myself as a reformed postmill that affirms covenantal theology. We need a church to call home, and there's not much available in my area.

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I know there is no perfect church, but I would like a better understanding of how to maturely and lovingly move forward.

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I appreciate your question, Anthony. So the question really is this, do you aspire to become an elder or an overseer in the church?

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If the requirement of that church in order to be an overseer is that you have to have a dispensational view, and you aspire to become an elder or overseer, then don't go to that church, because that's not going to happen there.

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Unless, you know, for whatever reason, maybe they just copied and pasted the statement of faith from John MacArthur's church.

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I've actually seen that before. And they don't hold that with a strong conviction, that dispensational viewpoint of the end times.

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So you can have some conversations about that and see just how married to the view they are. But if this church really is dedicated to that, and you want to become an elder, then

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I would say to you, as a matter of peacefulness, that you don't become a member of that church.

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You don't try to upend and bring division into that church over this particular doctrine, even though we might consider it to be a secondary or even tertiary disagreement.

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This is what the church has stated in their statement of faith, so let that be their statement of faith.

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You're not declaring them anathema. You're not saying that the Spirit is not here in this church.

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You're just saying that, I can't agree with your end times view. As I aspire to become an elder,

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I would not be accepted at this particular church. But if it is not your aspiration to become an elder, you're not trying to become a pastor or something like that, you're just looking for a good church to bring your family to, and hear the

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Word of God preached, and sit under the authority of the Word. Then I don't see why their view on eschatology would prevent you from becoming a member of that church.

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I think it's good to be open and honest about that. When you sit down with somebody and you have an interview about becoming a member of the church, it's good to say,

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I'm post -millennial, and I notice that in your statement of faith, you're pre -millennial. And ask them, are you okay with where I sit in my post -millennialism?

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And they're probably going to say that they are. They're just going to say, you know, you're not going to be able to assume a position of teaching leadership here, and you have to be willing to accept that.

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But if you still think these are brothers and sisters in the Lord with whom I would be willing to grow, I'm sitting under the authority of God's Word, I'm hearing the gospel proclaimed,

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I'm hearing sin called out, I'm being sanctified together with these brothers and sisters, if you can do that with a clear conscience, even though you disagree on eschatology, then

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I would encourage you to become a member of that church. It's good to have these conversations. Don't try to do things in darkness.

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Don't try to keep things concealed. Make sure everything's out there in the open, but have good, friendly conversations about these things.

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And may God be glorified, even though we have our differing opinions over the end times.

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As the Apostle Paul said, discussing the end times in 1 Thessalonians chapters 4 and 5, encourage one another with these words.

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So may we be encouraged, knowing Christ is going to return. He is going to gather his church to himself.

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He will judge the living and the dead. But all who are in Christ Jesus will live with him forever in his eternal kingdom.

29:30

Amen, Anthony. Thank you for your question. This next one comes from Grover in Salt Lake City, Utah.

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He says, Gabe and babe, I'll pass on your greeting to her. Just a thank you for your biblical podcast.

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I have the honor of driving to work an hour one way, just so I get to hear the what podcast.

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Here's my question. I have heard too many people say that Jesus became sin.

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Jesus was the perfect lamb of God. Jesus had no sin. He paid the price for all sin with his holy blood.

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If Jesus had any sin within him, he would have not qualified to pay the price for our sins.

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So what is meant by Jesus became sin? P .S. I've gone to the oldest podcast that you have done.

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I get to hear at least two to five episodes per day. Thank you. Well, that is quite an honor,

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Grover, and I appreciate that you would want to go all the way back to the very first episodes we did. I believe it was

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Philippians was the very first book that I did exposition through on this podcast.

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So you're listening to the Philippians episodes. That's pretty amazing. I kind of wonder now, going back to some of those episodes, would

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I say things a little different? I don't think my doctrines changed that much. I know one thing that's changed is

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I was a continuous in the very beginning when I started the broadcast, and I've since become more cessationist.

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That's one change that certainly happened. I'm not sure about some of the other doctrines. I'd be curious.

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I've not gone back and listened to some of those earliest episodes, even back to Philippians. If you hang on tight, we're going to get to our 2 ,000th episode.

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If my calculations hold true, and God willing, we'll get to our 2 ,000th episode this

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August. Eight years on the podcast. 2 ,000 episodes in eight years, and I am determined that Becky is going to be with me on that episode.

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I will not let her get out of that one.

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She has to be with me on that particular episode. That's coming up this August. Anyway, so in response to your question,

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Grover, what does it mean when we say Jesus became sin? This comes from 2

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Corinthians 5 .21. For our sake, he became sin who knew no sin, that we might become the righteousness of God in him.

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To help me answer this question, I'm going to turn this over to Dr. John MacArthur. I actually used a portion of an interview that Dr.

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MacArthur did with Kirk Cameron, and his response that he gave to Cameron became the script to this particular what video.

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Let me play it for you here. The greatest gospel verse in the

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Bible, 2 Corinthians 5 .21, he made him who knew no sin, sin for us, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

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Let me unpack those 15 Greek words. He, God, made Jesus sin. What do you mean he made

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Jesus sin? Only in one sense. He treated him as if he had committed every sin ever committed by every person who would ever believe, though in fact he committed none of them.

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Hanging on the cross, he was holy, harmless, undefiled. Hanging on the cross, he was a spotless lamb. He was never for a split second a sinner.

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He is holy God on the cross. But God is treating him, I'll put it more practically, as if he lived my life.

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God punished Jesus for my sin, turns right around and treats me as if I lived his life.

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That's the great doctrine of substitution, and on that doctrine turned the whole reformation of the church.

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That is the heart of the gospel. And what you get is complete forgiveness, covered by the righteousness of Jesus Christ.

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When he looks at the cross, he sees you. When he looks at you, he sees Christ. Isaiah 53, 5 -6

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He was wounded for our transgressions. He was crushed for our iniquities.

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Upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed.

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All we like sheep have gone astray. We have turned every one of us to his own way. And the

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Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all, when we understand the text.

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So there you go, Grover. I hope that short video gave you the answer that you were looking for.

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And don't forget, you can find hundreds of videos on numerous Bible topics when you go to our

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YouTube page. Go to YouTube .com slash WWUTT Or if you just go to YouTube and you type in, in the search bar,

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WWUTT and any Bible topic, we've probably done a video on it. And you might be able to find a quick, short, 90 -second answer to your question.

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I've got a couple of other videos coming out here this summer. One that I'm trying to finish this month, in the month of June, concerning Sodom and Gomorrah.

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The true story of Sodom and Gomorrah, as we have the account written for us in the book of Genesis. That's going to be a much longer video.

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In fact, it may turn out to be the longest what video I've done. That one's going to be somewhere around 25 minutes.

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Be looking for that one through the YouTube channel WWUTT God willing, it's coming soon.

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One last question to get to here. This is from Andrew. Dear Pastor Gabe, my name is Andrew and I'm from Jacksonville, Florida.

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I'm 24 years old and I've been married to my lovely wife, Rachel, for eight months now.

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He sent me this email last month. So, about nine months now. Congratulations to you, Andrew. Ever since I have been born again, the

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Lord has made discernment a huge desire of mine. Knowing that true discernment always brings us back to the word of God.

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And by God's grace, your videos have helped me with this for years. I was introduced to your videos through Wretched with Todd Friel.

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I'm so glad to hear that, Andrew. And I'm very, very appreciative of Wretched for playing our videos.

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Still have a great relationship with Todd and some of the other guys that work there with Wretched Radio. I'm very appreciative of them using my stuff.

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I don't think what would have accomplished the kind of outreach that we have if it wasn't for having those videos played on Wretched.

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Andrew goes on, that being said, what are your thoughts on Christian comedians? Because Todd Friel used to be a

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Christian comedian. Isn't that right? I think it was a stand -up comic before he became the evangelist that he is now.

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Anyway, Andrew says, I have heard many in the church today making a big deal out of John Crist and Trey Kennedy.

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However, something seems off to me about these guys. Like maybe they are the product of lukewarm

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Christianity. 2 Corinthians 11, 16 -33 showed us that Paul had his time devoted to serving

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Christ and the church with such a high reverence. Of course, in context, I know he was showing the congregation that he was a true apostle.

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Of course, God gives us laughter as a way to show us his grace, but are

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Christian comedians a waste of the body of Christ knowing that we have such a high calling?

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And then he mentioned Ephesians 2 -10, where it says that you are God's workmanship created for good works, which

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God prepared for you beforehand that we should walk in them. Andrew says, thank you for your time and ministry.

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I appreciate your email, Andrew. Well, Christian comedians are just like any kind of entertainment that you would consume.

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Do you feel guilty? Do you feel like you're wasting your time by listening to Christian comedians?

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Then, by all means, don't listen to them. But if you can watch a Christian comedian and be entertained by it, just like you would be watching a film, the latest action movie that's out.

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I guess there's a Spider -Man movie in theaters right now. Could you go watch that with a clear conscience?

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You don't feel like you've wasted your time and money? Then I don't see that being any different than listening to a Christian comedian.

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Now, some of these comedians that claim to be Christian, I'm not really totally convinced by that.

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For example, Trey Kennedy, one of the names that you brought up. I've watched some of his stuff on YouTube. I don't find him funny.

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I really don't. I've never cared for Trey Kennedy's brand of comedy. His videos just don't make me laugh.

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There was something that he came out with earlier this year. It was either early this year or end of last year.

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He came up with a comedy special. I watched about 15 or 20 minutes of it, and I just didn't find him funny.

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I don't even think he's all that talented. In some of his YouTube videos, he swears or makes sexual euphemisms, so I'm surprised to hear that he even considers himself in the category of Christian comedians.

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I didn't know that until your email, Andrew. Another one that you mentioned is

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John Crist. I wrote an article about Crist back in 2019, and here's what I wrote.

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On November 6th, Charisma News posted a story revealing that famous Christian comedian

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John Crist was guilty of sexting, harassing, and manipulating women. More astonishing still, many knew about Crist's sexual immorality, even prominent persons, and did not say anything about it.

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Evidence suggests Christian leaders have been aware of Crist's behavior and, through inaction, let it continue unchecked, said reporter

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Taylor Berglin of Charisma News, adding that Crist womanizing had become kind of an open secret among certain

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Christian circles. Crist had almost no accountability. This is why

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Charisma believed it necessary to warn the body of Christ about what Crist has been doing behind the scenes.

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That's a quote from their article. Crist was an online comedy sensation. His videos have been viewed hundreds of millions of times.

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In 2018, he was part of the second best -selling tour in the country after Disney on Ice. He was about to drop his first Netflix special, headline his second tour, and release a new book until Charisma broke their story.

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Now all of that has been put on hold. Again, this was an article I wrote three, four years ago.

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Over the past number of years, various women have accused me of behavior that has been hurtful to them,

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Crist said in an online apology. My behavior has been destructive and sinful. I've sinned against God, against women, and the people who

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I love the most. I have violated my own Christian beliefs, convictions, and values, and I have hurt many people in the process.

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I have also hurt the name of Jesus, and I have sought his forgiveness. Galatians 6 .1

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says, Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness.

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Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. Now that was all at the end of 2019.

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Crist has since come out of his funk. This was sometime last year. He's trying to get back on the Christian comedy circuit again.

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Well, Christian comedy. It might just be comedy circuit. I don't know exactly what he's doing. He's usually made fun of cultural

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Christianity. So I wouldn't be so surprised to find out that Crist just kind of decides he's going to shed the

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Christian label and just do his comedy thing without branding himself a Christian comedian. I don't know.

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I've not been keeping track of the guy. I don't know what he's been doing for the past year. Maybe you don't care for John Crist either.

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Then don't be entertained by him. But just like with Trey Kennedy, John Crist doesn't sound too much like a

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Christian either. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Crist just decides he's going to shed the Christian label altogether and just try to do his funny stuff without branding himself a

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Christian comedian. Now, there are comedians out there that call themselves Christians that I do find kind of funny.

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Tim Hawkins? I think his stuff's hilarious. I love his stand -up, and I love the parody songs that he does.

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He can be a little goofy and over -the -top, but that's his brand. That's the stuff he does. So I find

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Hawkins funny. There's another guy who was just introduced to. His name is Nate Bargozzi.

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I think I'm pronouncing his last name right. And I've seen a couple of his things, and it's pretty funny. He doesn't really call himself a

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Christian comedian, but he does come from a Christian background. And his comedy is clean. And that's what

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I like to see in my comedy. Clean comedy. For the most part, I don't watch stand -up comedians because they tend to be really filthy.

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And you know, the women can be worse than the guys. I don't want to hear women talk about some of the stuff they so crudely talk about in stand -up comedy.

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So I stay away from it for the most part because it's so bad.

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If I ever pull up a comedian and listen to them, it's because somebody else has told me they were funny.

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But most of them are so foul that I just can't stand to listen to it, so I avoid the whole genre of stand -up comedy altogether.

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If somebody tells me, hey, so -and -so's pretty funny and it's clean, then I'll pull it up and listen to it. But I'm not really out there looking to be entertained by most stand -up comedians.

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When it comes to our entertainment and the things that we want to be entertained by, we need to be honoring of Christ even in those things that we let get into our heads.

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And I think, Andrew, you made that point in your email. Philippians 4 .8 says,

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Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is dignified, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, consider these things.

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We should set our minds on things that are honoring of Christ, not letting our minds get filled up with all kinds of trash.

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No matter how entertained we might be with it, that stuff does have an effect on you.

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It shapes your thinking, and it darkens your heart. If you let too much of it get in there.

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So we need to be careful with even what we allow ourselves to be entertained by. You know the old

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Sunday school song, Be careful, little eyes, what you see. Be careful, little ears, what you hear.

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For the Father up above is looking down in love. Oh, be careful, little eyes, what you see.

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It's just a Sunday school song, but that's still good, wise counsel. We teach our kids that.

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We need to take that counsel to heart as well. Thank you for your question,

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Andrew. And for everybody who submitted questions this week, if you want to send a question into the broadcast, maybe you got a question about what happened at the

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Southern Baptist Convention annual meeting. Send those questions to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com.

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God willing, we'll be back on next week, and Becky will be with me. Let's finish up with prayer.

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Heavenly Father, we thank you for your goodness and your grace that you show us every day. As said in Lamentations 3, your mercies are new every morning.

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Great is your faithfulness. I pray for God -fearing churches, that there would be pastors in the pulpits of those churches that preach the word of God boldly, without shame, without nuance.

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They would proclaim clear, bold truths so that the people of God would be edified, that we would grow in holiness and righteousness, and those who are not believers would be convicted of their sin and come to faith in the

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Lord Jesus Christ. Those who are believers who have gone wayward, they would be convicted of their sin, and they would come to repentance and come back into fellowship with the body of Christ and be grown together with those believers.

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May we seek all things according to your word. May we devote ourselves to things that are pleasing and honoring of you, filling our minds and hearts with that which is pleasing to the

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Lord. Guide us in these things today. Lead us in paths of righteousness for your namesake.

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As said in Psalm 23, it's these things we pray in Jesus' name. Amen. This is

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When We Understand the Text with Pastor Gabe Hughes. There are lots of great Bible teaching programs on the web, and we thank you for selecting ours.

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But this is no replacement for regular fellowship with a church family. Find a good, gospel -teaching,

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Christ -centered church to worship with this weekend, and join us again Monday for more Bible study when we understand the text.