Review of "Heaven is for Real" by Burpo (Part 1) (Rerun)

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Charismatic Bamboozling (Part 2)

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Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.
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No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the
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Apostle Paul said, But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.
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In short, if you like smooth, watered -down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn't for you.
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By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we're called by the divine trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her
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King. Here's our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth. Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry.
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Pastor Steve's been on sabbatical. Pastor Steve, welcome back. Well, thank you. I had a great time on my sabbatical, and I think you were sick for a while, weren't you?
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See, I don't think you had enough faith. Not to heal myself. A physician, heal thyself.
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Well, Steve is back in the studio, and we're glad for that. Before we start on our topic today, Donna Shannon is going to be the featured speaker at the men's conference at BBC.
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Well, she's, you know, if it were biblical, she's good enough. There you go.
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Bethlehem Bible Church Women's Conference 2011, and Donna Shannon is going to be here at Bethlehem Bible Church May 20th and 21st.
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That is a Friday night and Saturday. You can register online at bbcchurch .org, or if you go to No Compromise site,
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I think you can get to the church site from there as well. She's going to talk about principles on adorning ourselves.
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At least it's not adoring ourselves. I was listening to a recent sermon in early
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April from a church locally here in Worcester, and the guy got up,
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Steve, and preached about how there are three great commandments now, I guess. You're to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength.
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Love your neighbor, and you're to love yourself. Oh, yeah. That's right here in Massachusetts. Yeah, that's shades of the
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Crystal Cathedral right there. One of the largest churches in Central Mass, and it was something about the power of choice. Sure.
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Who was the rock singer about the power of love, the power of money or something? We did it all for the power of love.
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I don't know. But anyway, Bethlehem Bible Church, Donna Shannon. Her husband is
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Bill, who's an elder at Grace Church serving alongside John MacArthur. And so if you'd like to register, we'd love to see you because Donna is—do you think
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Donna's a straight shooter? Can I just say—I was just going to say that. She is just very, very down -to -earth, practical.
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You're not going to get a bunch of touchy -feely, you know, how to fluff your way through life.
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She is—she's going to give you the straight scoop. Got great girls, great daughters.
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I know them both. And a great husband and just a wonderful family. All right.
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Well, today on No Compromise Radio, and probably next week as well, we'll see how it goes, we want to talk about Burpo.
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Really? Don't they make seeds? Aren't those kind of, you know, you can order them off the back of catalogs or something?
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Oh, that's Burpee. Yeah, yeah. No, this is Todd Burpo, the pastor in Nebraska, Imperial, Nebraska.
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Crossroads Wesleyan pastor. By the way, my second guess was—do you have to, you know, say, excuse me?
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Burpo, excuse me. Well, now, Pastor Steve, see, we can already tell which way this is going to go.
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It's going to go north. It's very unkind and very unloving. All right. Todd Burpo—here's why it came up,
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Steve. I was just 10 miles from Imperial, Nebraska a couple weeks ago doing the No Compromise Youth Ministry Conference.
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Really? And everyone was asking me— Where's the Tuesday guy? Is that what they were asking? I said he's on sabbatical.
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He's been sick, and he's had a bad cough, and we don't have a cough button here. And so, anyway, they kept asking me because 10 miles down the road—I mean, this was out in the middle of Nowheresville, and I knew it was in Nowheresville, Steve, when next door to the community center there was a veterinarian clinic, and it said,
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Caffeine Season Begins Soon. Get your shots here. And so 10 miles away is
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Imperial, and here's this book, Heaven is for Real, a little boy's astounding story of his trip to heaven and back.
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And it is a New York Times bestseller, and everyone's talking about it. And I thought we should talk about it today.
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That is astounding. That is da -mazing. And so I believe heaven is for real, and I believe you should know it's for real, but I also believe that we don't need this book.
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Why don't we need this book to know heaven is for real? I'm going to take a shot. As a trained theologian,
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I'm going to say because the Bible tells us about heaven. Do you know, I can't tell,
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Steve, if the guy has good motives or not. I can't tell if he had some psychological experience.
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I can't tell if he's a liar or not. I can't tell any of these things. And by the way, if you're going to critique some little 4 -year -old kid who's now 11,
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I think, that's pretty mean of you to do. Yeah, you automatically lose. Who are you? I mean,
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I can already read the emails. I've got a vision of the emails that are going to be coming in. You guys are so judgmental.
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He was only 4 years old. I think I'm fairly nice, but Steve, you're being very uncharitable today.
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So let me play devil's advocate. The devil doesn't need an advocate. That's right.
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And by the way, it's too late for him to have an advocate. That's right. Jesus will never be the devil's advocate.
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Preach it. So today we're going to talk about Heaven is for Real, the book by the Burpos, Todd Burpo.
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And he had Lynn Vincent help write it. She's a best -selling author for The New York Times. And so what we want to do today is ask and answer the question, is
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Heaven for Real and do we need the Burpo book? Now, Thomas Nelson published it, Steve, 192 pages.
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Are you glad that they published it or not glad? I think it's to their shame. I mean, why would they publish a book which is obviously extra biblical, unbiblical?
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Why would they do that and call themselves Christian publishers? We ought not to give any kind of new revelation any kind of room.
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You know, that's just me. Maybe I'm uncharitable. Come on, Steve. Experience validates revelation and truth.
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Does it? Now, we are very glad that Colton Burpo, the young lad, we were very glad that he lived and he survived emergency surgery.
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And by the way, I actually saw the Fox interview. And you can see him interviewed by all kinds of people. I'm glad he's alive and all that.
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I just doubt if this really happened. And by the way, how can anybody prove it?
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You can't. And I mean, that's the great thing about experience. You know, you're joking about experience trumping scripture, but that's what so many people do.
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You know, if they have a vision, if they have a thought, if they have— if something turns out, if they do something completely wrong and it turns out well, well, they know better because experience trumps scripture.
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Let me fast forward, Steve, to Tim Challey's comments, and then we'll back up.
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And we'll let Challey's blast people because you and I are both very charitable. We're kind. Very nice. This is positive, encouraging,
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K -Love Tuesday. And Tim Challey's not so nice. Yeah, if you ever met him, you'd realize. No, just kidding.
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Listen to this. If you struggle believing what the Bible says but learn to find security in the testimony of a toddler.
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Now, there's a comma here. Well, I feel sorry for you. What more can you say?
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The Word of God isn't sufficient for you, and you're going to latch on to the words of a child.
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Really. And, I mean, this is being nice, the presumed words of a child.
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Presuming that nobody put these words in his mouth. If you struggle believing what the Bible says but learn to find security in the testimony of a toddler.
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Well, I feel sorry for you, and I do not mean this in a condescending way. If God's Word is not sufficient for you, if the testimony of the
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Spirit given to believers is not enough for you, you will not find any true hope in the unproven tales of a child.
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Then he goes on to say, reject this book, do not read it, do not believe it, and do not feel guilty doing so.
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Tim Challey's. And, Tim, don't you think Steve is very charitable, very kind? He's not prone to some kind of contendernessly ministries where you're blasting all kinds of people for all kinds of reasons.
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He's a mild -mannered man. Well, he's no fighting Fundy. Fighting Fundy, that's for sure.
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Jean. Jean. We ought to be discerning. I mean, again, this is a seminal passage of Scripture.
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Let me just read 2 Peter 1, verse 16 to the end of the chapter. Now, before you do that, do you know
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God's really big? And in heaven, Burpo said, there's a horse that only Jesus knows how to ride.
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And on its saddle is a name that no man knows. And the Holy Spirit shoots down power from heaven to help us.
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Do you know that? Maybe that would be a good book, Heaven Help Us? You know, I mean, there are so many thoughts that come to my head.
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Unfortunately, most of them seem marginally blasphemous, so I'm not even going to say them. If you are caught up in this book and you're a brand -new
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Christian, I think I'd probably get it. But if you've been around the block, you should immediately reject such pablum, such nonsense.
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And if you try to defend this, I don't know what to do for you. I guess you're not a regular listener of No Compromise Radio.
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Steve, please, Scriptures. 2 Peter 1, verse 16. This is Peter, the
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Apostle Peter, writing. Listen to what he says. Verse 17.
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Now listen to verse 19.
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And we have something more sure, more sure than watching the revealed glory of Christ on the Mount of Transfiguration.
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What is it? The prophetic word, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place.
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On to verse 20. Knowing this, first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man.
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But men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. He says, pay attention to the word, not even the greatest experience in the history of mankind.
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And yet, we're supposed to look at this experience and let it kind of trump Scripture. We don't...
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I like experiences, don't you? Yes, experiences are nice. But I'm not going to base my truth on experience.
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Truth is the trump card here. And when Todd Burpo writes a book regarding his son,
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Heaven is for Real, and then has a bunch of stupid stuff in there, like everybody in Heaven has wings except for Jesus, and his grandpa's got really big wings.
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I didn't know, Steve, that in Heaven, humans who have no bodies yet, because their bodies are still in the grave, right, somehow now have angels' wings.
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They kind of sprout them, you know, it's almost like some metamorphosis. I just read that and I think, this is not true.
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And then immediately people say a bunch of things, Steve. Well, have you talked to Todd Burpo yet before you critique him?
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Yeah, yeah. You can't judge until you've talked to the man. You don't know his motives. You don't know his heart.
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This is a public book, and if you are going to rake in the millions and millions of dollars that this man is,
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I think you could probably stand a little public scrutiny. And this is in the long line of a bunch of fake, faker, fad books.
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23 Minutes in Hell, 25 Seconds in Heaven, 90 Minutes in Heaven.
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I think that was 26 Seconds Over Tokyo, if that was on.
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Oh, maybe. Tora, Tora, Tora. And so this is in a long line of books that basically say,
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Scripture's not enough and I want more. I'm not content. I can't trust it. And, Steve, honestly, the verses that are in the book,
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I'm glad if people would give the book away with bad motives, saying Heaven is for real because if a kid went to Heaven and back, supposedly, and they read the book and there's some
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Bible verses in there, I'll be glad for that, but that's not a reason to buy the book. People are buying these by the cases.
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What can you imagine? We buy a caseload of them and we give them to visitors here. I would be totally, not just embarrassed,
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I'd quit the next day. Did you know born -again Christians in Heaven have halos over their heads because then the children can see that they're pure in heart?
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I have no words for that. I mean, if the Bible came anywhere close to any of these things,
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I would go, oh, that's interesting, but, I mean, this is like, this is a foreign language. This is completely unscriptural.
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Did you know Jesus had his angels sing to the child about the walls of Jericho falling down?
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Now, people, evangelical Christians, and do you know, Steve, maybe the people in Imperial Nebraska know the guy and, therefore, they really like it.
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It's kind of a good, you know, local boy gone, you know, New York Times. And so there are other reasons to like things, but if you just read your
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Bible, there's no way you could put up with this nonsense, gobbledygook, anti -biblical, ungodly stuff.
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This isn't just a book that's gone off the haywire, off the haywire, off the wire. This has gone haywire.
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You know, I'll just, a little insight into our relationship here. Mike used to come over to my house, you know, way back when in L .A.,
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and he used to dog me for having Tom Clancy books on the shelf. I would rather go over to somebody's house and see 20
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Tom Clancy books than this one. I mean, this just says
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I have absolutely minimal scriptural discernment.
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I have no spiritual discernment. I don't know the difference between truth and error because I embrace this. Well, and Tom Clancy is not necessarily bad.
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I just wanted theology books up top and Tom Clancy down kind of lower. And by God's grace, you obeyed, and now you're—
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Tom Clancy is in the basement now. Did you know that Colton Burpo said that there's going to be a big war one day between, quote, bad people, end quote, and demons and monsters, and Jesus is going to win and throw
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Satan into hell? Did you know that? That's a very unique interpretation of the book of Revelation.
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I mean, I know that there's going to be some battles upcoming, and, you know, in the end,
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Jesus, you know, just kind of shows up and wins the day. But I hadn't heard that. Well, you know, I don't—
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Did you say monsters? Yeah, there's special monsters, demons and monsters. And— Sounds like D &D.
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I don't know what— This is D &M. God zaps pastors with power when they preach. Maybe if you'd actually believe in this,
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Steve, your sermons would be more powerful. Well, I mean, you know, certainly if I had some sermons where I thought, boy, that went a lot better than I expected, you know, a lot better than I deserved.
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Yeah, but I never felt like a zap. Do you ever get that? You ever get zapped? A couple times.
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I was working with the electricity, and I didn't really shut the thing off. Yeah, that one time you were doing the baptism, and the thing fell into the water?
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Here we're talking today, Mike Avendroth and Steve Cooley, No Compromise Radio. Why compromise the
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Word of God and believe the experience, our so -called experience of a four -year -old, when I think it's really the memories of the father implanted in the son?
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I can't prove that, but this boy can't prove that he went to heaven either. Well, how do you explain the out -of -body experience where he saw his father in another room?
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How do you explain that, huh? Well, I only have three words, and if you're listening today on No Compromise Radio, get a piece of paper, a pencil, pull over to the side of the road right now if you're driving, and just write down these three words, because these three words are very, very important.
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Yeah. Witch of Endor. Is that from Star Wars?
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Yeah. Remember they walked in that cantina, and there's all those funny music things playing, and the guy walked up and ordered some kind of galactic cocktail from the
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Witch of Endor? Really? I don't remember that. I do remember there's a planet called Endor, but, you know.
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You know what really struck me about the book is when Colton talks about his battles with constipation and how he could get great relief when he'd no longer be constipated because he would have some gas come out of his body.
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Well, that's edifying. Chally said, riveting stuff, eh?
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I mean, that is so edifying. You know,
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I'm just shocked that I haven't read this book. I mean, this should be way…
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Now, there is a possibility that this man's a liar. Yeah, that's a reasonable possibility, yeah.
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There is a possibility that he had some experience in some dream state and then thought that was heaven.
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Is that a possibility? Sure, yeah, that's a possibility. There is a possibility that there's some supernatural issue going on here like Witch of Endor.
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Some kind of deception. That's right. One thing for sure is, would
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God have a boy go to heaven and then bring him back? I don't know if that would really be nice and gracious.
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I think that'd be pretty bad. Well, I mean, if you've been to heaven, would you want to come back?
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See, here's what everybody forgets, Steve, and I know you're not forgetting, but 2 Corinthians 12 tells us the account of somebody who really did go to heaven, and it is my belief that if God brings you to heaven, you don't want to come back because,
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A, who'd want to come back if you're already in heaven? B, who'd want to come back and then get a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to buffet you so that you don't have pride, so that you don't write some lame book about it?
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Well, I mean, when Paul said that it's better to be in heaven, to be in the presence of God, than it is to be here, but he was here for the sake of the church,
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I think he knew what he was talking about. Heaven is better. There's a reason why when we have funerals for believers, we don't just sit around and go, oh, it's so sad that Steve died, that so -and -so died, or whatever.
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We don't think that way. Why? Because we know it's better. We know they're in a better place. Well, I'm looking at Steve right now.
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We try not to look at each other when we talk, but I'm looking at Steve right now, and I actually see some kind of round thing hovering over his head.
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Mm -hmm. Yeah. And it's glistening. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I forgot to shower this morning.
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That's right. Well, listen to 2 Corinthians 12. I must go on boasting, though there is nothing to be gained by it.
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I will go on to visions and revelations of the Lord. By the way, let's just say that Burpo thinks he went to heaven.
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He can't prove it. We can't prove it. But we know Paul went to heaven. Is that true? Yes. Yes, we absolutely know that.
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He says he went to the third heaven, which is where God is. I know a man in Christ 14 years ago was caught up to the third heaven, whether in the body or out of the body,
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I do not know, but God knows. And I know that this man was caught up into paradise, whether in the body or out of the body, I do not know.
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God knows. Right. And he heard such things that cannot be told. Now mark that down. That cannot be told, but could be sold.
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You know, if the price is right, you know. And now with perfect parallelism, which is common in many languages, that you reiterate by saying the same thing a different way.
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It would be like saying bold, italicized, underlined, yellow font or something like that.
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Here's what he says. And he heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter. So you can utter under some circumstances.
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Maybe that's the unutterable. Unutterable trespass. Well, I mean, what part of may not utter, you know, is understandable here?
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You know, may not utter. Even if he had gone to heaven, he would not be permitted to reveal those things, this young boy.
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And we have absolutely no reason to think that he did go to heaven. I think if you have a friend that you want to go to heaven and you have a motive of the glory of Christ and the gospel and you'd like to have them know about Christ's great substance, his wonderful life, how he healed, how he forgave sins, how he has the power, how he's at the right hand of the
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Father now, how he's coming back, how he's been raised from the dead, and you really have that desire, and you say,
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I think I'd like to give them a book. I just want you to give a different book. How about Heaven by John MacArthur?
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Great book. How about The Saints' Everlasting Rest by Baxter? Give them a taste of Heaven by R .C. Sproul. That would be fine, too.
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Johnny Erickson Tata wrote a book about heaven. But it just should be based in Scripture.
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I mean, ultimately, what this is, I'm sure they didn't intend it this way, but it is an attack on the sufficiency of Scripture.
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They say, well, you know, the Bible's all well and good, but let me tell you about some special insight only
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I have because only I've been to heaven. Well, the question is a big question now. Does God give this kind of confirmation to his messengers and to the message that the messengers have?
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Does he give that confirmation any longer? And my point is with Steve, there's no reason to do it because we have a closed canon.
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This denies sola scriptura, sufficiency of Scripture. Right, and it really suggests,
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I mean, if this were true, I think we had to slap, you know, Second Revelation on it and put it at the end of the
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Bible. It's the 67th book. I thought mine is the Book of Maps is 67. Listen to what 2
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Corinthians goes on to say. On behalf of this man I will boast, but on my own behalf I will not boast except of my weaknesses.
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Though if I should wish to boast, I would not be a fool, for I would be speaking the truth. But I refrain from it, so that no one may think more of me than he sees in me or hears from me, so to keep me from becoming conceited.
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Now, the tie -in is still he's been to heaven and back. And, by the way, that's a pretty big claim. Actually, that does sell books.
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I've been to heaven and back. And I've experienced something that you haven't, but that you want to experience. So what does
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God give Paul? Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations about heaven, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan, to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited.
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Well, I mean, can you imagine how often, if you were Paul, I mean, if it were me and I'd been to heaven and seen it and everything like that, every dinner party
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I was at and everything, you know, when people started boasting, I'd want to go, well, you know, that's nice, but I've been to heaven.
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For those of you that don't know that inside scoop here on No Compromise Radio, we like Brian Regan, the comedian, R -E -G -A -N.
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For the most part, he's very clean, and he has that dinner party deal, and I walk the moon, and you can one -up everybody.
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That is so hilarious. Well, I walked on the moon. And, you know, same way. Walked on the moon.
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Yeah. Well, I went to heaven. Speaking of the Audubon, I was in my lunar rover in the
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Sea of Tranquility when I realized there was no speeding signs. Well, and I mean, how do you one -up somebody who says,
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I've been to heaven? You know, I know that everybody rides horses or they all have wings.
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And by the way, when you first said wings, I thought you all meant they had highly developed lats. I didn't know what you were talking about. Well, yeah, you know, some people call biceps guns.
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We just call lats wings. That's a nice set of wings there, guy. Friends, you need to be a discerner.
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Bereans were discerners. The Thessalonians, they received the word of God like it was a powerful thing. They received it, and they received it well.
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But the Bereans were more commended because they studied to see if these things are true. This is not needed. It's not necessary.
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It doesn't give us any other insight for heaven. Why don't you read Revelation 21, 22 and think to yourself, Jesus is going to be there.
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That's all I need. I don't need to know if some wings are there or stories of angels with swords protecting heaven from Satan.
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Or, you know, little insights into constipation. None of those things. I mean, it just could not be more clear that this is just whatever it is.
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It is definitely not from God. We know that much because God has given us everything pertaining to life and godliness.
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There's nothing more that we need. And so, I mean, at best, you could say this book is unnecessary.
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Yes, at best, and at worst, this book is shameful. And that's what I think it is. I think it's shameful. And if you're a pastor and you write this, then that's where the shame comes from.
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Because if you're just a lay person and you say, well, I had some experience near death, keyword near, and then
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I wrote a book about it, that's one thing. But this guy's a pastor. He knows better. Yeah, well, I mean, the whole idea of somewhat dying and then coming back, you know, from heaven, it's just utter rubbish.
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Let's talk about this next week as well. I'm Mike Gabendroth with Steve Cooley at No Compromise Radio. Info us at No Compromise Radio.
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Or email us. Or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.
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The thoughts and opinions expressed on No Compromise Radio do not necessarily reflect those of WVNE, its staff or management.