August 30, 2023 Show with Jon Harris, Andrew Rappaport, AND Tom Rush on “The Importance of Masculinity”

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Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer

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George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend

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Jim Thorpe. It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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And now, here's your host, Chris Arnson. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 30th day of August, 2023.

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And we have one of those rare programs today when we have three guests on simultaneously, and they are all involved in an upcoming conference,

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Overcoming Evil, in Speculator, New York, that we will be describing in more detail.

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And my guests today are, first of all, let me introduce back to the program a returning guest,

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John Harris, who is an author and conference speaker, and it's great to have you back on the program,

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John Harris. Thank you, Chris. It's good to hear from you and looking forward to the discussion.

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And I also want to welcome back to the program another returning guest, my old friend,

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Andrew Rappaport, who is the founder of Striving for Eternity Ministries.

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It's great to have you back on the program. Did you just call me old? I know

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I hate overstating the obvious on my program, but it's great to have you back.

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And we also have a first time guest on the program who is one of the speakers at this conference that I just mentioned that is coming up in Speculator, New York.

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And this is Pastor Rush, who is an interim pastor at Bethlehem Baptist Church in Fairburn, Georgia.

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And he is also the founder of Tread Ministries. And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to the program,

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Pastor Rush. Hey, glad to be here, Chris. Thanks for the invitation. Looking forward to it.

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And I'm going to give our listeners our email address right away in case they have questions.

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Our theme, by the way, is not only to promote the conference coming up, but the specific theme is the importance of masculinity.

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And if you have a question for our guest today, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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chrisarnson at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside of the

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USA. And please only remain anonymous if your questions involve a personal and private matter.

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Well, first of all, since you are the only first time guest on the program, Pastor Tom Rush, I would like you, as our tradition compels us to do here on Iron Trip and Zion Radio, whenever we have a first time guest, we have that guest give a summary of their salvation testimony that would include any kind of religious atmosphere in which you were raised and what kind of providential circumstances our sovereign

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Lord raised up in your life that drew you to himself and saved you. So let's hear an abbreviation of your story today, brother.

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Well, I'll try to be brief with it. I was very fortunate to grow up in a

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Christian home. My parents were faithful members of the First Baptist Church in the town here in Georgia where I grew up, and they shared the gospel with me.

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My tradition goes back, as far as I can trace it, at least back to the war between the states where my great, great grandfather was a

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Baptist pastor and a chaplain to the Confederate troops. And so, you know, that has been passed down the line.

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My dad was a deacon and Sunday school teacher. My grandfather was also a deacon,

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Sunday school teacher. His dad was a pastor. So it's kind of been in the family for a while.

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But, you know, my mom and dad, you know, shared the plan of salvation with me. And I've always been grateful that our sovereign

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God, you know, put me in that kind of environment and gave my life to the

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Lord just before turning eight years old. And then when

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I was in college, God began to deal with me about a call to the ministry. I was already committed to the

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Navy through the ROTC program. So I served in the military, but did my first tour of duty and got out, went to seminary and been pastoring ever since.

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Well, tell us something about Tread Ministries. Well, Tread Ministries, after being a senior pastor for 32 years.

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You're very muffled now for some reason. I don't know why. Yeah, I'm not sure. Now you're fine.

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Is that good? Yes. You know, several years ago, about seven years ago, after pastoring for 34 years,

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I felt the Lord's call to try to expand my ministry, do some writing, Bible conferences, that sort of thing.

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The Lord's been very good to me in that regard. I've had a lot of opportunities to do that. And so just wanted to raise up Tread Ministries as sort of a standard against the tide of secularism that seemed to be invading the church.

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You know, the judgment of God is a real thing. And I think that God's people need to be prepared for the coming judgment of the

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Lord. And so that's kind of why we started TREAD. It stands for Tom Rush Evangelism and Discipleship.

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I think evangelism and discipleship go right together. And so that's the reason for Tread Ministries.

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Great. And the website is treadministries .org, treadministries .org. That's correct,

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Chris. And my friend, Andrew Rappaport, why don't you tell our listeners briefly about Striving for Eternity Ministries?

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Sure. Thanks. It's a discipling ministry. We do discipleship a lot of different ways. We have an online academy.

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We have books. We have a podcast community. We have seminars where we come into churches and train people.

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What makes our ministry maybe a little bit different than others is we actually target the smaller churches where most people don't go.

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Most parachurch ministries where the church can't afford to have us and we'll come into them anyway.

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And we just trust our monthly supporters to help us do that. But we go into churches that can't afford to fly us out and pay an honorarium.

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And we go to them and we'll do a seminar, try and train people up in those churches to help that church grow.

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So that's one of the things we do maybe a little different than others. My podcast that Chris, you're aware of is

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I have two main ones I do. Andrew Rappaport's Rappaport that's wrapped with two P's where we do biblical interpretations, applications to all things

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Christian life. And then we have Apologetics Live, which is a live stream Thursday nights, 8 to 10 Eastern Time, New York Time.

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And we answer any questions people have about God and the Bible. And I say

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I can answer any question because I don't know is a perfectly good answer.

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And the website for that ministry is strivingforeternity .org, right? That is correct.

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And now, John Speed, it's great to have you on the program again.

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You're a returning guest. And tell us about this conference that you have coming up in Speculator, New York, September 21st through the 24th.

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I, unfortunately, cannot be there because I'll be in Atlanta at the G3 conference. But tell us about this conference that you are spearheading and speaking at.

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Yeah, thank you, Chris. And for those who aren't going to G3 and are in the area, the

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New York area, Northeast or mid -Atlantic states, it is a good opportunity to really get to know other guys who are like minded in their values and share some of the same concerns and the same joys and the same love for Christ that you do.

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And so, I mean, it really starts there. I wanted speakers who were bold, unapologetic, masculine, willing to take hard stands no matter what the consequences were, not company men.

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And so, that's really the main metric I used when determining which speakers we were going to have come.

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So, we actually have six speakers. So, another speaker is

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Lance Nidihara, who is a world -renowned, at this point, chef. He's won the show Chops twice, but he has an affiliation with Living Waters Ministries.

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He's written some materials for them. And actually, my father, who's also my pastor right now, is going to be there,

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Scott Harris. And I have him doing a session. And then, A .D. Robles, who's a popular

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YouTube podcast guy, he's going to be there as well. So, there's a bunch of us.

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And Tom Rush is the main speaker. Tom has a vast military experience and pastoral experience.

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And I asked him, because we're all talking about some different topics, but him specifically,

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I said, could you just talk to us about being men? Because right now, that is such a controversial thing.

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But it's also just, I think, a hard thing, especially for younger men who don't have a role model and haven't seen it.

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They don't know really what being a man is. And that's probably the most vital, important thing we need right now, are some bold Christian men to stand up, take charge, be willing to take shots if need be, and do the right thing.

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And so, that's what we're hoping to do, is inspire people, forge relationships, because we're not just individual men, but we're men as a corporate body.

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And we want to overcome the evil that's around us. And there's a whole lot of it. And the specific theme of the conference is overcoming evil.

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That's right. And what specific aspects are you speaking about in regard to overcoming evil?

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Yeah. So, it's going to focus on a number of different areas. Like Chef Nitihara, who's not here on the podcast, but he runs a campus ministry at the

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Culinary Institute of America. And so, he's going to talk about being on a college campus and being a light in a very evil environment, where it's obviously secular, but it's really just pagan.

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I mean, there's a lot of debauchery. There's a lot of opposition. And he has a very encouraging group. So, that's going to be inspirational,

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I think, for the men who come, who are used to getting a lot of bad news. They're going to get some good news about what God's doing and what

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He can do and how He can use us. And then, of course, conquering personal evils. I think that's going to be kind of wrapped up throughout the conference.

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I know I'm going to talk about that some. My dad's going to talk about spiritual discipline. So, overcoming vices that we might have, reoccurring sins.

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I know for men, pornography is a big one. And it's probably more prevalent than any of us know.

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And so, I think talking about that, getting it out in the open in an environment where men can actually not feel like they're in a mixed audience.

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They're going to say something that is inappropriate. They can actually bear each other's burdens.

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That's going to be happening. And then Andrew is going to be talking about just overcoming evil in ministry because there are people coming.

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There's actually a number of pastors who—my sense right now is that a lot of pastors feel like they're beaten down after 2020.

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There's been splits in churches. There's been all kinds of fracturing. And how do you overcome the evil that the devil puts up against us in ministry?

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And so, yeah, these are just a few of the areas, but it's going to be pretty comprehensive, I think. Now, is

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Lance Nittahara, the chef, is he the same chef that I saw years ago on Chopped?

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He was a contestant who won, and he shocked everyone, including the judges and the host, by sharing, by splitting in half his winnings with a rival contestant, a woman who was heartbroken that she didn't win because she was going to use the money to visit her—either visit her mother in Italy or take her mother to Italy, where they're from or where she is from, before she passed on or something like that.

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Was that the same— Yes, yes. Wow. That was a landmark episode because it was the only time—I haven't seen every episode of Chopped.

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But I remember everyone, the host and the judges, were crying when he did that.

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And I remember thinking to myself, wow, did he just make a profound statement for the love of Christ?

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Because initially, if you saw the episode yourself, there was a little teasing going on once in a while because of his old -fashionedness.

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And he used something—he used a term about being a chef in the secular world.

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And when they were asking him some of the challenges that he faced, he said something like, well, when you work in a kitchen in a secular restaurant, there's a lot of potty mouth going on.

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And they just thought that was hilarious, the host and the judges. But he wound up wowing all of them.

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And I always wondered especially what kind of impact that may have made on the host, who was openly homosexual.

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So that was quite an episode that obviously I remembered vividly. And as soon as you mentioned his name and his profession, my memory clicked there.

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Yeah, you have a good memory. Well, that was just a remarkable episode. It really stood out because I don't think

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I ever saw, and perhaps there never was, a contestant that shared his winnings with the runner -up.

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So that was pretty remarkable. Well, as I said before, how do our listeners register for this conference in Speculator New York?

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You can go to overcomingevilconference .com, overcomingevilconference .com, and it's pretty straightforward.

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Great, and hopefully I will remember to have you repeat that later on. Just out of curiosity, we are talking about the importance of masculinity today.

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And I was just wondering, don't judge me for being judgmental or something, but I'm just wondering why

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Andrew Rappaport has hoop earrings and eye makeup on. What? I think

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Andrew missed that. Unless his photograph is frozen, I think his photograph might be frozen.

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I don't have that that I know of. I know. I'm just kidding, Andrew. Obviously. Obviously.

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But maybe that'll be how I'll dress for the conference, just for you, Chris, if you come.

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No, I'm going to be in Atlanta, remember? That was that was a safe bet that I didn't have to.

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That was kind of like making a bet where, you know, you're winning. Well, this area of our discussion, this area of life, the importance of masculinity, that is something that is attacked, mocked.

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It is even the concept of masculinity, which has become automatically coupled with the word toxic in our day and age.

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It is viewed as something completely out of place with our culture.

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And perhaps it is out of place with our culture, but something that should be considered out of place, should be considered prehistoric and even evil.

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John Harris, if you could tell us from your understanding of history, when did masculinity become an enemy of many in our population?

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And it may have been going on for a longer time than I even imagined. Yeah, I think it's been a gradual slide.

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I think it's a result inevitably, actually, of a classical liberal mindset that says we should emancipate ourselves from the constraints of tradition and family and even now created norms.

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And so you have women in the 1840s in the United States who started, they call it first wave feminism, started.

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It wasn't just agitating for wanting the right to vote, but it was more than that.

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They wanted to be in professions that had normally been reserved for men. They wanted to change some of them, actually, like Elizabeth Cady Stanton, I believe it was.

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She changed the words in the Bible to take out verses that she felt were against women.

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And they were doing seances at their annual convention in 1848. So there was a wickedness to this whole thing.

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And I mean, I kind of think the only toxic masculinity belongs to feminists.

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You know, they're the only ones that try to be masculine. And it's a super toxic thing because God did not create them to be that way.

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God created them as women to have a certain role, and women are more nurturing. And it's a beautiful thing.

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The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world, in a sense. So they do have a lot of influence. But they are not supposed to be taking the responsibility, the hard responsibilities, of doing things like going to war and law enforcement and taking the lead in the home and the church.

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And this is the way God wired creation. So you look at the end of 1 Corinthians and Paul says, act like men.

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This has been ingrained in Christianity for a long time. David's charge to his son Solomon is to play the man.

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And there was this understanding they had that there was this thing called masculinity.

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They didn't even have to give you a 10 -point bullet list of what it was. We all kind of knew what it was.

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It's being courageous and it's being loyal and it's doing hard work and believing in something and striving for that thing and taking dominion.

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And so that's what I think it is. And I just think that we're pacified now because we want to emancipate ourselves from God's created order.

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And it's a sad thing. It leaves people hurt. Families are in ruin. Boys that are growing up don't know how to act.

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They don't know how to approach things like even dating and finding a mate. And so this is something

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I really, you know, I'll pitch it to Tom. I don't know if you're going to him next. But I think that he's someone with just extensive experience with men, with leading men in the military under very hard situations that they're in where they're stressed out and reminding them you have a mission.

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You are a man and you need to complete that mission even if it's tough. And so, you know, that's what we're trying to do.

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And you just reminded me of when you mentioned the citation, Play the Man.

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You immediately transported me within a split second to the

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Oxford Martyrs back in the 17th, actually the 16th century, 1555, who are included in the

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Fox's Book of Martyrs, Hugh Latimer and Nicola Ridley.

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And while they were tied to the stake and moments away from being burned alive,

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Hugh Latimer said, Be of good comfort, Master Ridley, and play the man.

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We shall this day light such a candle by God's grace in England as shall never be put out is uncertain.

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Amen. Something that is forever indelibly etched in my mind because you wonder the kind of men that are being raised up in the church today and for possibly the last decade or more.

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Would such men ever die for their faith if that day may come?

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You know, we sit typically in our easy chairs of comfort and we scoff at the notion that we live in a nation that would ever do that to us.

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But as time progresses and we see what's going on in the media every day,

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I do not think it would be shocking that within our lifetime, all four of us, that the

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Christian church might be persecuted with the severity of Rome and Islam.

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That may sound like a crazy exaggeration, but I don't think that we can immediately scoff that off.

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I don't know what your opinions are, Pastor Rush. Want to comment on that? Yeah. You know,

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Chris, the problem in the church today is that so many pulpits have weak pastors in them.

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Weak pastors don't create strong men. And, you know, it's almost like we have sissified the pastorate.

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And we have men that are scared to preach the truth, scared to stand for the truth.

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And I think the problem in the pulpit today is that men fear other men.

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They fear the loss of their reputation from other people more than they fear

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God. And we need to teach our men that what is critical is we've got to fear

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God. When Paul wrote to the Corinthians, he had a very, very interesting statement.

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You know, therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

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And we've got to get back to understanding what the fear of God is, that it's more important to be concerned about what

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God thinks than what men think. Yes, and I wanted to read a meme to all of you that was posted on the

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Facebook page of a woman who I am going to be interviewing soon,

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Tuesday, September 12th. If you want to mark your calendars, brothers and sisters.

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I have for the first time on my program, Patty Height, who was freed from her bondage to gender confusion and same sex attraction by the power of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

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And she founded Out of Egypt Ministries. She's also going to be a guest speaker at a local church here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, Tree of Life Church.

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And I intend to attend that event. But Patty had a really excellent meme that she posted.

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Woke culture celebrates boys becoming girls, but not boys becoming men.

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It will be our unraveling. I don't think that is an overstatement.

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Do you, Andrew Rappaport? No, I mean,

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I think that, you know, we live in a culture where men have been taught to act like women.

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Right. Even if it's unconsciously. Yeah. I don't think that most people specifically, consciously, openly have that as their mission.

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But it just happens to be something that is unconsciously happening. I mean, obviously, there are some completely insane and demon possessed leftists who have that as their goal openly.

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But this is something that has just become like a frog in the kettle situation because people don't even realize what distinct gender roles and behaviors should be anymore, even in the church.

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Yeah, you know, it's quite interesting. You mentioned the quote earlier about play the man, Master Ridley.

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What you may not know is why they burned those two men where they did.

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I've been to that location. Wow. And what right above where they were burned was where a bishop who signed to not allow the queen to have

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Roman Catholicism and he was adamantly fighting her. And they wanted to watch him make him watch his two friends burn to death right outside the window where they had him imprisoned.

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And that's why he did what he had done. Now, he he actually, you know, when you look at the history, he caved.

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He caved to the pressure and signed, ended up signing to to basically renounce the

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Reformation. And he was supposed to go at the church with the queen present to, you know, announce his, you know, his recantation of the

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Catholic Church and whatnot. And he ended up announcing that he was wrong for signing it and that with his that he knew he would be burned.

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And he said, with the right hand in which I I signed that letter, that will be the first thing to burn.

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And they literally dragged him right from the pulpit down about a mile to the same spot where his two friends were burned in front of his eyes.

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And they lit him on fire right there. And he he led he basically bent down to make sure that his right hand, the thing that signed that confession would be the first thing to burn.

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That's a man who stands on for the word of God. That's a man who's going to say, you know what? Even when

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I make a mistake, I'm going to in front of the queen, knowing the consequences,

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I will stand up for the truth. And the problem we have today is people don't even know what the truth is.

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You have your truth. I have my truth. It means whatever it means to you. No, there is truth.

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And we had a generation before that understood that. We have a generation now that's losing that. And that's why they're so powerful and able to be molded in the way that the culture wants them to be.

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Amen. We have to go to our first commercial break right now. If any of you have a question for any of our guests or all three of them, submit it to Chris Arnzen at Gmail dot com.

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C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at Gmail dot com. Give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence.

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If you live outside the USA and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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Let's say you have a son who is not behaving in what would be considered a masculine manner and you have some questions about that.

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Perhaps you just have a difference of opinion with your own pastors or church in perhaps ignoring this issue.

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Or perhaps you're even a pastor and you're disagreeing with your own elders over something that we're saying today.

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We understand that those would be compelling factors to remain anonymous. But if you're asking a general question, please give us your first name, at least city and state and country of residence.

29:37

We'll be right back. Please do not go away. The Mid -Atlantic Reformation Society presents the future of Christendom.

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Twenty twenty three. The gospel at war. September 15th to the 16th in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania.

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Featuring Dr. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries. We are excited to be including a formal debate in this year's conference.

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Dr. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries will be debating Dr. Gregory Coles, author of Single Gay Christian, a personal journey of faith and sexual identity.

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The debate topic is gay Christian, a biblically acceptable identity for a member of Christ's church.

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So come join us for the sixth future of Christendom conference. The event will take place at Spooky Nook Sports in Mannheim, Pennsylvania, and will run from Friday evening through all day

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Saturday with an invitation to the Sunday morning worship service of the Independence Reformed Bible Church. This will be a weekend packed with practical teaching with a theme of the gospel at war in many areas of our culture, including government schools, the

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Supreme Court, missions, feminism and even the church pulpits. Head to future of Christendom dot org.

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James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries here. I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the

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G3 National Conference. That's Thursday, September 21st through Saturday, the 23rd on a theme that I've been preaching, teaching, writing about and defending in live public debates for most of my life.

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The sovereignty of God. I'll be joined on the speaking roster by Steve Lawson, Voti Baucom, Paul Washer, Virgil Walker, Scott Anuel and Josh Bice, founder of G3 Ministries.

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And there's more great news. Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio can get you a 30 percent discount off the registration fee.

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Chris Arnzen and I look forward to seeing you all Thursday, September 21st through Saturday, the 23rd. The G3 National Conference in Atlanta, Georgia on the sovereignty of God.

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Go to G3 Min dot org and enter promo code G3 I S I R for your 30 percent discount off the registration fee.

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Go to RoyalDiadem .com and mention Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. We are now back with my guests today, which include

38:54

John Harris, Andrew Rappaport and Pastor Tom Rush.

39:00

If you have a question on the importance of masculinity, our email address is

39:05

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. Give us a first name at least, city and state and country of residence. We have a listener question already from Ted in Moundville, Alabama.

39:17

And Ted says, I'm a longtime viewer of John's YouTube videos, and I appreciate the balanced approach he brings to controversial issues within the

39:27

Christian community. I find myself taken aback sometimes, however, when

39:33

John throws out phrases such as some of these young guys today or, you know, it wasn't like this when

39:42

I was a young guy coming up in the ranks because no offense intended.

39:48

He looks like he's barely into his 20s. I have a feeling he simply looks young for his age or maybe

39:54

I'm just getting too old and cranky. But my question is, John Harris, how old are you exactly?

40:04

John, did you hear the question? I don't know why John is muted right now.

40:11

We can't hear he is. He is speaking. I see him. It's saying he's trying to speak.

40:16

But, well, I would say that I refer to John as the young man. Well, why don't you answer the question, Andrew?

40:22

Do you know how young John is? I don't. Well, I just know he's way younger than me.

40:29

Well, Ted, you're going to have to hear your answer at some point later on, because for some reason, John Harris is 34.

40:37

Oh, there he goes. He's 34. Just three years younger than me.

40:42

I'm just kidding. Chris, you know, listen, John and I both have the same problem.

40:50

And that is, is that we look a lot younger than we actually are. So I identify with John's problem.

41:00

In the case for Chris and I, we just act a lot younger than we are. Yes. And perhaps immature would be a better way of putting it.

41:09

But anyway, well, thank you. My dad was born old. I was born old.

41:14

So, I mean, I'm about, you know, it's kind of like I was born in 1912. That's how I view it. Well, thank you,

41:21

Ted. And next time, please use up our time with a more important question. The going back to the very important theme of the importance of masculinity.

41:39

Why is it? I mean, there are some obvious answers that any

41:45

Bible believing Christian could begin to rattle off. But why is it? Let's go back to Pastor Rush.

41:53

Why this issue is such a vitally important issue in the 21st century and cannot be looked upon as some kind of exaggerated complaint by more conservative people.

42:10

And I have another question in mind that I will follow up with that. But Pastor Rush, can you tell us what's the big deal about this?

42:19

Well, of course, it's a big deal. Look, God has a design for how he wants both the family and the church to operate.

42:27

And in God's design, the family and the church are to be led by men. And they should be godly men, manly men.

42:36

You know, I mentioned earlier, Chris, that we have weak pastors. Weak pastors are not going to create strong men.

42:43

And I was thinking of a story that my mentor, an evangelist who's gone on to be with the

42:50

Lord, Dr. Sam Cathy. And by the way, Dr. Cathy's birthday would be today. He had been 89 years old.

42:56

Wow. I remember having a conversation with him years ago, and I may have interviewed him. I may have interviewed him on the old program,

43:04

Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio, which was broadcasting out of WNYG in Babylon, Long Island back then.

43:09

I have a feeling I did interview Brother Cathy. Yeah, Dr. Cathy was a tremendous. I referred to him as Papa Sam, and he was my mentor since the mid 80s.

43:19

And he was with a pastor doing a Bible conference. And the pastor admitted that he had a problem with his 17 -year -old son.

43:30

And so he took Dr. Cathy over to his house and showed him his son's bedroom. And there were, you know, pornographic pictures and demonic pictures and stuff up on the wall.

43:41

And the pastor said, I just he said, I just don't know what to do with my son.

43:47

Dr. Cathy said, we'll meet him at the door when he comes home from school today and bring him up to his room and say, you've got five minutes to get all this stuff out of my house.

43:55

And he said, well, I'm afraid if I do that, he'll leave. And Dr. Cathy said, help him pack.

44:03

Help him pack. And that's the kind of leadership. Listen, you got a 17 -year -old that's operating that way.

44:09

You have failed to teach him how to be a godly man well before that event comes along.

44:17

And we've got to teach our men how to lead their families, how to lead their churches. And this is where we're failing.

44:23

And it's absolutely critical today because society around us is going to get worse.

44:29

We've got to have men who are willing to stand up for the truth and who are more concerned about what

44:36

God thinks about what they're doing than what the world thinks. Just out of curiosity, I'm wondering if Pastor Cathy wrote a book called

44:45

Restoring the Fallen. Was that something that he wrote? I don't recall that.

44:51

He did write a book on spiritual warfare. I think he was probably the resident expert back in the 70s and 80s for a true and correct biblical perspective on warfare.

45:06

And you mentioned soft or actually you mentioned weak pastors.

45:14

What, in your opinion, would require a pastor being placed in that category?

45:22

And let me first mention something. I think that you could have a pastor who is as macho as macho could be.

45:31

He could look like he just wandered out of the forests of the

45:37

Yukon after a hunting trip. And he could be big and burly with a beard.

45:43

And he could be strong and even loud and imposing in his voice.

45:49

But he may not ever preach a word from that pulpit that offends anyone in that congregation.

45:59

He may know his congregation well enough that he knows what subjects to avoid because he's frightened about how they may react, that he may get kicked out of his position.

46:13

In fact, you even have some of our fundamentalist brethren.

46:18

And by the way, I'm not an anti -fundamentalist. I have dear friends for decades who are in that camp of Christianity, even independent fundamentalist

46:28

Baptists, King James only, and so on. But some of them, when you hear them preach, and I've heard many sermons by them,

46:38

I actually was a part of establishing a radio program in the 1990s when I worked for WMCA Radio, a

46:45

Salem affiliate, a Salem media affiliate in New York City, called the

46:50

Fundamental Baptist Forum. And you would very often hear sermons, very loud and bold, but they were obviously constantly on issues that would likely very rarely be taking place in their own churches.

47:06

They would only be on women dressing provocatively, and they would only be on protesting homosexuality, and you could go on and on and on with things like that.

47:21

But, you know, you very rarely hear them preach against pride. You very rarely hear them preach against other things that may be inherent to their own churches.

47:30

So am I making sense here, Pastor Rush? Yeah, Chris, I think you are.

47:36

And look, here's the problem. We're to preach, as Paul told the Ephesian elders, the whole counsel of God.

47:43

And we don't skip around, and I call it cheerleading preaching, where we only preach about stuff that we know our own congregation is going to say amen to.

47:54

We've got to hit it all, and you do that if you preach expositorily, if you take the

48:00

Bible and preach it verse by verse, line by line, word by word. It requires that you not skip the hard stuff, and that's why we have weak preaching.

48:11

One example of weak preaching today, I think, would be some of our evangelical brethren that are now referring to themselves as soft complementarians.

48:24

Now, soft complementarian is a euphemism for egalitarian. They're just trying to—well, we're really complementarians, but, you know, we don't want to be too strong about it.

48:38

Complementarian being the view that the Bible teaches exclusive male headship in the church and in the home.

48:47

Obviously, husband and wives rule together, but the husband has authority over the wife.

48:52

That's basically—and the egalitarian would be that there are no gender roles, if you take the extremist form, most extreme form.

49:03

There are no gender roles, and men and women can do anything that the other does. Well, yeah, and Chris, sometimes the egalitarians have been correct in their accusations against so -called complementarians because what many have done in the church, while they would not allow a female to serve as the pastor, they allow women to teach men.

49:26

In almost every Baptist church that I have pastored through my ministry, I have had to remove women from teaching men.

49:33

And you've got to have consistency, and I think that's the one thing that we oftentimes miss in the life of the church.

49:41

You know, we do the easy part, but we don't do the hard part. Now, can you give us an example of what soft complementarianism is?

49:51

Well, an example of that would be what happened at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, where the president,

49:59

Danny Akin, says that he is a soft complementarian. It was his poem that he used, and he says, you know, we believe that men are supposed to lead the church, men are supposed to lead the family, but they are giving pastoral ministry degrees to women and bragging about it on social media.

50:20

I teach with Russell's Theology Classroom. By the way, you're getting muffled again, brother.

50:26

I don't know what's happening. I don't know what's going on there because nothing's changed on this end. Can you hear me now,

50:32

Chris? Yes, better. Yeah. So anyway, you know,

50:37

I taught a class on pastoral ministry. It was for men only. I didn't allow any women in the class.

50:44

Pastoral ministry is similar to Christian ministry. It's similar to church ministry.

50:51

But the focus of the class was specifically on how do we as pastors do the ministry that God has called us to.

50:59

That is for men, and it should be godly, manly men. As a pastor, and Pastor Andrew might want to jump in on this, but, you know,

51:10

I'd love to have ten men in my church that were so godly, so manly, that I could issue them water pistols and we could storm hell and take the place over.

51:19

By the way, you reminded me of something that a dear, dear friend of mine, now in heaven,

51:26

Dr. Robert J. Cameron, who was a black

51:31

Orthodox Presbyterian pastor in New Jersey, Mount Carmel Church in Somerset, New Jersey, and he was a professor at a

51:43

New York City Bible College, and his class was the homiletics class.

51:49

On his very first day of walking into the classroom, there were women in there. Not all women, but there were some women in there.

51:57

And he said to the class, My name is Dr. Robert J. Cameron, and number one, the very first thing that you should know about Dr.

52:08

Robert J. Cameron is that he does not teach women how to preach. Yeah, amen.

52:16

But we have to go to our midway break, and perhaps Andrew, as you said, can pick up where we left off when we return from the midway break.

52:23

Please be patient with us, folks. The midway break is a little longer than the other breaks because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

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FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because the

52:36

FCC requires of them to localize this program geographically to their physical location, which is

52:44

Lake City, Florida. They do so with their own public service announcements and other things, while we air our globally heard commercials.

52:50

Please use this time wisely. Write down as much of the contact information as you possibly can for as many of our advertisers as you can so that you can more frequently and successfully respond to our advertisers because we absolutely positively depend on our advertisers to exist.

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And when you can't spend money with our advertisers, there's one thing that everybody listening can do.

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If you really love this show, you can thank them for sharing their wealth with us and supporting us financially so that we can remain on the air.

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That's one thing that anybody can do. So please do that and send in your questions to our panel, chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

53:29

chrisarnsen at gmail .com. We'll be right back. Please don't go away. The Mid -Atlantic

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Reformation Society presents The Future of Christendom 2023, The Gospel at War, September 15th to the 16th in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, featuring

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Dr. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries. We are excited to be including a formal debate in this year's conference.

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Dr. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries will be debating Dr. Gregory Coles, author of Single Gay Christian, A Personal Journey of Faith and Sexual Identity.

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The debate topic, Is Gay Christian a Biblically Acceptable Identity for a Member of Christ's Church?

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So come join us for the sixth Future of Christendom conference. The event will take place at Spooky Nook Sports in Mannheim, Pennsylvania, and will run from Friday evening through all day

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Head to futureofchristendom .org. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries here.

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I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnsen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the

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Joseph Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sends you. When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

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01:12:57

and we are discussing the importance of masculinity. Andrew Rappaport, if you would like to pick up where Pastor Tom Rush left off, he wanted to pass the baton to you to pick up on the subject that we've been addressing.

01:13:14

What I'd actually like to do is pick up something that Pastor Rush mentioned earlier, if I could. Go ahead.

01:13:20

Because we're talking about masculinity. Maybe many in the audience are not familiar with the name

01:13:25

Kate Mullet. So who is Kate Mullet? In the late 1960s, she wrote a book called

01:13:31

Sexual Politics. This was the start of what you heard John Harris refer to as the first wave of feminism.

01:13:39

This was the start of the second wave of feminism. Pastor Rush mentioned the issue of pornography.

01:13:45

So here's the thing. Let's take it from the horse's mouth what their agenda was and still is.

01:13:52

Kate Mullet had written back then to get prostitution and pornography into the culture for the one purpose that it would destroy the family and destroy male prominence.

01:14:06

The reality is that they laid out and, you know, John Harris will probably have a lot to say on this, but what you end up seeing is that when you look at the second wave of feminism, you look at what our culture is today where you see just a prominence of where they're trying to legalize and make prostitution now be a legitimate type of career.

01:14:32

And what we end up seeing is that this is now prevalent. But have no fear of this or have no mistake of this.

01:14:43

They knew, the feminists knew that the goal all along with pornography and prostitution was that in the end it would remove masculinity, which is a sharp way of thinking because most people don't think that that's what it would do.

01:14:59

There's a lot of men that would say, oh, no, no, I could be masculine and look at pornography. This is why they wanted it prevalent.

01:15:07

They wanted it prevalent because they knew that this would end up removing masculinity. And this is really what

01:15:13

I think we have and why this conference that John is putting together, Overcoming Evil, is to get men together to discuss the issues that men are dealing with, that we need men, real men, to stand up and be willing to go against the culture and say, we're going to act like biblical men.

01:15:34

Now, did Kate Mullet invent the mullet haircut as well?

01:15:40

All business up front and party in the back? I think that we have to give

01:15:46

Kirk Cameron that one. I think he owned the mullet. By the way, a listener, in fact, it was once again our friend

01:15:54

Ted in Moundville, Pennsylvania, said her name is actually Millet with an I. That is correct.

01:16:01

Yeah. Sorry. Now, let me. John Harris. And by the way, whenever I ask a question of any specific member of the panel, any of you that would like to chime in may do so.

01:16:14

I don't have to call upon you to respond. But, John, sometimes well -meaning brothers in Christ who are lamenting the feminizing, if that's even a phrase or maybe a feminizing of men in an increasingly and an alarmingly disturbing rate.

01:16:43

I mean, it's just absolutely amazing how often on a daily basis, whether eating in a restaurant or shopping at any kind of a store, the men that are working there are very often over the top effeminate.

01:17:04

It's just strange the percentages of this being a routine and regular phenomenon.

01:17:11

But having said that, John, we'll start with you.

01:17:17

Don't we have to be very careful about inventing unbiblical litmus tests for what should be defined as masculinity?

01:17:28

I know I have heard some folks that have, I think, gone way overboard with ridiculous expectations on what a true man should be.

01:17:43

In their minds, there should never be a soft -spoken man. There should never be a man that wears clothing that includes the colors purple and pink in it.

01:17:54

I mean, you could go on and on with some restrictions that they have in their mind that have nothing to do with Scripture.

01:18:01

Don't we have to be careful about becoming caricatures ourselves when we start discussing this issue?

01:18:14

Sure. Yeah. I mean, I don't think masculinity is so much taught in an itemized way of like, here's an ideology, here's 10 things that make you a man.

01:18:26

I think it's more exemplified. Of course, as Christians, we have the person of Jesus Christ to look to.

01:18:33

When Paul said to act like men, he meant something by it, right? And of course, that word malakoi or malakos,

01:18:40

I suppose, it can be translated as soft. It is translated as soft in the only other time in the

01:18:46

New Testament it's used. And in pagan literature from the time period, it's also translated that way.

01:18:53

Sometimes it can refer to homosexuality, but it also can just refer to general passivity and effeminacy and this kind of lazy, taking it easy kind of life.

01:19:10

So Paul didn't see the need to go on a long passage about it and tell us all what he meant by it because everyone knew.

01:19:19

And I think that's the same today. We all know, I think, deep down what a man is supposed to do, what a man is.

01:19:26

And the modern world, the project of the modern world has been to suppress that. So I look to examples.

01:19:33

I look to the example of Christ. I see in Christ a man who was very bold and obviously did took took more pain and more suffering than any human in history to accomplish the mission from his father.

01:19:46

He went into the temple with a bullwhip. He was aggressive against the Pharisees. He also, though, protected the weak and he also cared for his own mother and obeyed his father.

01:20:00

And, you know, the same man that said he did not come to bring peace, but a sword also said, suffer, not the children.

01:20:09

Let the children come to me. So there was a gentleness that he had as well. My yoke is is easy.

01:20:15

My burden is light. So so I see in Jesus, you have the perfect balance, if you will.

01:20:22

You have the aggression, but it's restrained. And the word we often use for that is meekness, power under control.

01:20:28

And that's what a true man is, is someone who's meek. They have the power to do great things and mighty things and actually inflict a lot of damage if they want to do that in their sinful state.

01:20:39

But yet they restrain that and they channel that towards godly ends toward towards the ends that God has put into them from creation.

01:20:48

And then if they're Christians, of course, in addition to that, it's the ends that God has given them with their spiritual gifts and the mission that's specific to Christians and spreading the gospel and making disciples.

01:20:59

And Pastor Rush, wouldn't you agree that there are dear brethren in Christ who are truly masculine men who boldly speak the truth from pulpits?

01:21:14

Or even if they're not pastors, they evangelize fearlessly. And in our day and age,

01:21:20

Christians are many of them are simply afraid of being made fun of, let alone being burned at the stake like our forefathers were.

01:21:32

Right. And even as some are tortured and murdered today in Islamic countries and so on.

01:21:40

But they may be soft spoken. I mean, when I say soft spoken, I'm not talking about somebody who speaks in a way that you would immediately have the indication that it was an effeminate voice.

01:21:53

I don't mean that. But somebody that doesn't have a loud voice, for instance. Don't you think that we have to drive home that this is not the masculinity that we're promoting as far as you have to be loud and gruff?

01:22:10

And even an example will be, I don't know how many of you saw the movie, a remarkable true story called

01:22:20

Hacksaw Ridge, where a true figure from history in World War II.

01:22:31

He was a Seventh -day Adventist. I'm not here to defend Seventh -day Adventist doctrine by mentioning this, but he was a pacifist but insisted on enlisting so he could help soldiers and even save their lives.

01:22:47

He just didn't want to kill anybody. And one of the individuals in boot camp that was giving him a hard time was a guy that was outwardly powerful looking.

01:22:58

He was a weightlifter and so on, but he was the first to cower in fear on the battlefield. Correct. So we have to be careful when we speak about this issue again, because we're really talking about men who are fearless, as fearless as fearless can humanly be accomplished.

01:23:19

Or should I say moving forward and obeying God, even though we have fear. Courageous men who are more fearful of God than of men.

01:23:30

That's what we're really trying to drive home here, isn't it? Yeah, I think so, Chris. And what we're really talking about here more is demeanor.

01:23:38

You can have a quiet demeanor. And you're referring to Desmond Doss.

01:23:44

He was the only noncombatant in World War II to receive the

01:23:51

Medal of Honor. Yes. And he if you haven't seen Hacksaw Ridge, it's graphic.

01:23:57

But if you're a man and you want an example of manliness, Desmond Doss is your guy.

01:24:03

I mean, I was just in New Orleans. My wife and I were on vacation celebrating our anniversary.

01:24:10

And we did some really exciting things like visit the World War II Museum. And if you get to New Orleans, you've got to see the

01:24:18

World War II Museum. And I thought as I was going through there, where do we find such men today?

01:24:25

You know, one of our biggest problems is, is that we feminized the military. Where do you where do you find men that will storm a beach after being told, gentlemen, seven out of 10 of you will die storming this beach?

01:24:42

And sadly, that was Omaha Beach. They were wrong. Nine out of 10 died storming that beach.

01:24:49

The second wave used the bodies of the first wave to fend off the machine gun fire coming from the

01:24:56

Germans. Where do you find such men? And and so Desmond Doss was one of those guys.

01:25:01

And Hacksaw Ridge is also a great story about the significance and importance of religious liberty, which all of us in this group,

01:25:11

John, Andrew and Chris, we all stand for religious liberty. I'm not in favor of Seventh -day

01:25:18

Adventist doctrine, but I am in favor of them being able to worship God the way that they believe is correct.

01:25:26

And Doss wouldn't wouldn't take a weapon and shoot anybody. But what a tremendous war hero he was.

01:25:34

Yes. And that's the example that we are looking for. Those are the kind of men that we need in our churches.

01:25:41

You know, Paul said that we're to watch, stand fast in the faith, be brave, be strong.

01:25:47

Let me let me share this one last thing. Unfortunately, I've got a meeting that I've got to get to. So I'm going to have to step aside.

01:25:53

But sure. When I was in college, I read a book by Norm Evans.

01:25:58

Norm Evans was an offensive tackle on the Miami Dolphins team that, you know, had the unblemished record, won the

01:26:06

Super Bowl there. And he wrote the book On God's Squad. And he was talking about the

01:26:13

Lord being a manly man. And his definition of Jesus, he said, I know we can't describe him, but he said,

01:26:20

I could imagine Jesus as being a 260 pound defensive tackle that would be in our backfield the entire game.

01:26:27

And that's the kind of man that I believe that Jesus was. He was strong. He was powerful.

01:26:33

And yet he had a great heart and love for the downcast, as we say throughout

01:26:39

Scripture. A very strong man, yet with a great loving heart. That's what we have to try to develop in men.

01:26:47

And I think, John, that's what we're hoping to do in our upcoming conference. And I just want to repeat your website for our listeners, since you have to leave at this point, treadministries .org,

01:26:59

T -R -E -A -D, ministries .org. Thank you so much for being a valuable part of this panel today,

01:27:06

Pastor Rush. Thank you, Chris. It's been a joy to be with you and John and Andrew and look forward to being with you again in the near future.

01:27:14

Amen. Well, God bless you, brother. God bless you. And John Harris, care to add anything?

01:27:21

I say amen to everything Pastor Rush just said. I agree 100 percent. And Desmond Doss is a good example.

01:27:30

I lived in Lynchburg, Virginia for three years, which is actually where Desmond Doss is from. Yes, that's right. They have a memorial to him there and a highway named after him.

01:27:40

He's a local legend. And he gained the respect of everyone because even though he was a pacifist, he still put himself at great personal risk.

01:27:49

And as Christ said, greater love is no man than to lay down his life for his friends. And that's what Christ did.

01:27:55

And so I would say that he probably is out of step with a lot of the pacifists out there because pacifism tends to lead towards you're not going to put yourself in those situations.

01:28:06

Or if you're in those situations, you don't really find necessarily a positive channel to use the strength

01:28:14

God has given you. And that's what Desmond Doss did. And it's a remarkable story. I appreciate that example very much.

01:28:22

Now, Andrew Rappaport, although we have been driving home some atypical understandings of masculinity, perhaps, or one or aspects of masculinity that are in our culture, even amongst conservatives, perhaps not brought to the forefront often enough.

01:28:47

There are elements of appearance and voice and dress that do involve our discussion today.

01:28:58

To give you an example, I remember hearing a Christian pastor preaching.

01:29:06

I can't remember if it was on YouTube or what have you, but I remember being in the presence of some brothers and sisters, and I was disturbed by the man's very effeminate voice.

01:29:21

It wasn't just a soft -spoken man. He sounded effeminate. And I made the comment, this guy needs to go to voice coaching lessons to get rid of that.

01:29:35

And I was mocked by at least a couple of the people that were in my presence, saying, hey, that's just the natural way he speaks.

01:29:43

You shouldn't be getting on his case for that. Was I wrong on that,

01:29:49

Andrew? Yeah, and I'm reiterating, he wasn't just soft -spoken. He sounded like a stereotypical male homosexual, if you follow what

01:29:59

I'm saying. And I'm not saying that a Christian, a genuine, regenerate, born -again man may not have that unfortunate aspect of his mannerisms.

01:30:11

But don't things like that and even stance and the way of walking and so on, having a haircut that is not confusing as to what your gender is, if you see somebody from a distance, and clothing, even though those tend to be overemphasized by many of our conservative brethren, they are important to a degree, aren't they?

01:30:36

Yeah, John, you see how he asks me these more difficult, challenging, we're put -on -the -spot questions, huh?

01:30:42

Okay. No, there is – I mean, look, there are people that are born with voice levels that maybe they would have to work at to change.

01:30:55

However, what you're really bringing up is the fact that, yeah, you have a lot of people who purposely use a high -pitched voice, dress a certain way.

01:31:06

It's kind of interesting because in a day of where everyone wants to argue for transgenderism, that anyone could be fluid on their gender, but you know what?

01:31:14

I always notice that guys who are biologically male, when they say they're transgender, what do they do?

01:31:20

They have a high -pitched voice to mimic who? They dress in a certain way to mimic who?

01:31:27

Women. So they know there's only two genders by the fact that when they say they're transgender, they act opposite, complete opposite to the stereotype of their biological gender.

01:31:40

That's the proof that they know there's only two genders. In fact, they often mimic a cartoon of women.

01:31:49

I mean, like, for instance, it has been said – I actually thought that I was the originator of this phrase, but I've heard other people say it after.

01:31:58

Drag queens, for instance, they are basically the LGBTQ sister of the minstrel show.

01:32:10

They are acting and behaving in a way that is not the way normal, average women behave or dress or look with their makeup and hairstyles.

01:32:22

They're like clowns. Well, they're overemphasizing it is what they're doing.

01:32:28

Right. They're going to speak in a higher -pitched voice than women typically speak. They're going to put on more makeup than women will typically wear.

01:32:37

They will try to – because what are they doing? They are trying to pretend that they're something they're not.

01:32:46

And so what they do is they go with the stereotype is and they go there and beyond. But the reality is that's the proof that they know there's only two genders because if they really believed in transgenderism, if they really believed that gender is fluid, they wouldn't change the way they look at all.

01:33:04

They wouldn't change the way they speak at all. They would just say, hey, I – this is who

01:33:10

I am because that's what they claim, that this is who they are and we shouldn't judge them. And yet they're not trying to act who they are.

01:33:16

They're trying to act like someone who they aren't. So when we have someone that maybe they naturally have a high -pitched voice, there are things that people may not be able to control.

01:33:28

You think – not to get into politics, but RFK Jr., who's running for democrat for president, if you hear him speak, he has a condition where he struggles with his speech where if you listen to him, you might be like, hey, something's wrong here.

01:33:48

I'll give a different for instance. A friend of mine, Matt Slick, he had a caller. He used to call in another friend of mine, and my friend

01:33:57

Ed has cerebral palsy. So he would call Matt's show, and Matt actually said to him once, you're going to have to stop calling into the show drunk because he didn't know.

01:34:10

And Ed's like, well, I'm sorry, Matt. I have cerebral palsy. And this is the way I speak.

01:34:15

So he has a condition. Yeah. So but – and if you know anything about Ed Romine, that's who

01:34:24

I'm referring to, Ed is – Ed may have cerebral palsy and be in a wheelchair, but let's talk masculinity.

01:34:32

Ed in New York City, one of the things where I just valued Ed, he's sitting there in the middle of this area with a headset on that was going wirelessly to these two speakers.

01:34:44

He's preaching the gospel, and this big guy is getting angry. He can't figure out who's doing the preaching, but he's getting upset and angry at the preaching of the word of God.

01:34:53

And he just screams at the speaker that was standing there. These are two big speakers, and he just yells at it.

01:34:59

Whoever you are, when I see you, I'm going to punch you in the face. And Ed just looks because Ed was watching the guy, and he goes, you're going to hit a handicapped man?

01:35:09

And the guy just turned and looked, immediately saw it was Ed. And he starts walking over to Ed, and I made a beeline.

01:35:16

I mean I tried to cut him off. He walks right up to Ed and fist bumps him and goes, keep up the good work, man, and walked off.

01:35:23

There's nothing Ed would have been able to do in his wheelchair if that guy decided to do something.

01:35:29

But Ed was not going to back down at the preaching of the word of God even though he had a man who was – the guy was bigger than me.

01:35:37

And Ed's like, no, I'm going to preach the word of God to you, sir, because you need it. That's a man.

01:35:44

You reminded me of an incident that years ago

01:35:49

Lou Ferrigno had mentioned in some talk show, I think, where he was sitting in a booth in a restaurant.

01:35:57

And Lou has a lisp, and it's because he is almost completely deaf.

01:36:03

And his voice isn't really the most masculine voice that you might want to hear, but it's not because of an intentional way of speaking.

01:36:12

It's because of his disability. And there was some guy in the booth behind him who was making fun of the way he was speaking, and Lou got up and approached him.

01:36:22

I can't remember what he said he told the man, but the man was terrified and apologetic because he didn't realize the hulk –

01:36:30

What is that phrase? Pun intended.

01:36:36

No, pun intended. The hulk of a man standing there. He was immediately terrified and apologetic because he never would have dreamed a voice like that would be coming out of him.

01:36:45

But to drive my point home, though, Andrew, if a brother in Christ, especially if he is intending to go into ministry and preach, but not exclusively.

01:36:59

If he has an effeminate voice unintentionally, and I'm not talking about physical handicaps or disabilities that create that.

01:37:09

Doesn't he need to really do his best to change that way of speaking? That may sound harsh, but to just avoid misunderstandings from people?

01:37:21

I mean, am I out of my mind by saying this? There are things we could do with our voice. Look, you know,

01:37:27

Chris, I'm known for doing a lot of open air evangelism. I stand up in the streets wherever, New York to the

01:37:33

Philippines, and I just stand up on street corners and preach the gospel. And there, you know,

01:37:39

I knew a guy who struggled because of some physical ailments. He just did not have a strong voice.

01:37:47

But, you know, one of the things is he worked at it. He would do sit -ups, which will help with it.

01:37:54

And he would do things that would help improve his voice so he could have a more voice that would carry a little bit more and wouldn't be such.

01:38:03

And if you're going to be preaching, whether at a pulpit or on the street, I think, yes, it is good to have a voice that is more commanding, shall we say.

01:38:15

But especially if someone's going to be a pastor, I would say this. I when

01:38:20

I was pastoring, I did everything I could to not be a distraction. I mean, I I'm not color coordinated,

01:38:26

OK? I'll just say that for the record. But I had to learn to wear solid colors because I would just wear like a striped shirt with a paisley tie.

01:38:33

And that distracted people. I could not tell the difference because I didn't care. But the fact is, is that we need

01:38:41

I think my my thinking, my preference would be that as pastors or preachers, we would do whatever it takes to not be that we are not a distraction or cause confusion to the message.

01:38:55

And so I wouldn't want to be if I had a high pitched voice, I probably would try to work at that to avoid confusion.

01:39:03

Now, is it necessary? I don't know that I'd say it's it's necessary. But I think that there's things we could do to present ourselves more as as masculine men.

01:39:13

I'm saying this is someone whose name, Andrew, is Greek for manly, and I clearly don't live up to it. But, hey, you know,

01:39:20

I try to work at it. By the way, we're going to our final break now. And I share some of your dilemma,

01:39:26

Andrew, in that I am colorblind as far as mixing and matching. And I wrote a book.

01:39:34

It's not to be confused with James White's book about homosexuality called The Same Sex Controversy.

01:39:40

My book is called The Same Socks Controversy. So it's a very important book. I'm only kidding.

01:39:47

Anyway, we're going to our final break here. Go get that book on Amazon. Going to our final break.

01:39:54

If you have a question, send it immediately because we're running out of time. We'll be right back. The Mid -Atlantic

01:40:01

Reformation Society presents The Future of Christendom 2023, The Gospel at War.

01:40:07

September 15th to the 16th in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. Featuring Dr. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

01:40:14

We are excited to be including a formal debate in this year's conference. Dr. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries will be debating

01:40:21

Dr. Gregory Coles, author of Single Gay Christian, a personal journey of faith and sexual identity.

01:40:27

The debate topic. Is gay Christian a biblically acceptable identity for a member of Christ's Church?

01:40:33

So come join us for the 6th Future of Christendom Conference. The event will take place at Spooky Nook Sports in Mannheim, Pennsylvania.

01:40:39

And will run from Friday evening through all day Saturday. With an invitation to the Sunday morning worship service of the

01:40:45

Independence Reform Bible Church. This will be a weekend packed with practical teaching. With a theme of the

01:40:50

Gospel at War in many areas of our culture. Including government schools. The Supreme Court. Missions.

01:40:55

Feminism. And even the church pulpits. Head to futureofchristendom .org. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries here.

01:41:16

I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. And I are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the

01:41:25

G3 National Conference. That's Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd.

01:41:30

On a theme that I've been preaching, teaching, writing about, and defending in live public debates for most of my life.

01:41:36

The sovereignty of God. I'll be joined on the speaking roster by Steve Lawson.

01:41:41

Vody Baucom. Paul Washer. Virgil Walker. Scott Anuel. And Josh Bice. Founder of G3 Ministries.

01:41:50

And there's more great news. Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio can get you a 30 % discount off the registration fee.

01:41:58

Go to g3min .org. That's g3min .org. And enter promo code

01:42:04

G3ISIR. That's G -3 -I -S -I -R for the 30 % discount.

01:42:12

Chris Arnzen, I look forward to seeing you all Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd. The G3 National Conference in Atlanta, Georgia on the sovereignty of God.

01:42:21

Make sure you stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnzen while you're there.

01:42:28

Go to g3min .org and enter promo code G3ISIR for your 30 % discount off the registration fee.

01:42:37

Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor.

01:42:53

Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio has had a long -time partnership with our friends at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

01:43:03

They specialize in supplying Reformed and Puritan books and Bibles at discount prices that make them affordable for everyone.

01:43:10

CVBBS has been a family -owned book service since 1987, operating out of Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

01:43:16

They seek to bring you the best available Christian books and Bibles at the best possible prices.

01:43:22

Unlike other book sites, they make no effort to provide every book that is available or popular because, frankly, much of what is being printed is not worth your time.

01:43:32

That means you can get to the good stuff faster. It also means you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic, heretical, and otherwise faith -insulting materials promoted by the secular book vendors.

01:43:44

Browse the pages at ease, shop at your leisure, and purchase with confidence at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

01:43:51

Order online at CVBBS .com. That's CVBBS .com.

01:43:57

Or you can order by phone at 1 -800 -656 -0231.

01:44:03

That's 1 -800 -656 -0231. Please let our friends at CVBBS know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

01:44:14

Getting a driver's license, running a cash register, flipping burgers, passing sixth grade.

01:44:21

Do you know what they all have in common? They all require training, assessments, and certifications. But do you know what requires no training at all?

01:44:29

Becoming a parent. My name is A .M. Brewster. I'm the president of Truth, Love, Parent and host of its award -winning podcast.

01:44:37

I've been a biblical family counselor since the early 2000s. And what I've discovered is that the majority of Christian parents have never been biblically equipped to do the work of the ministry in their homes.

01:44:48

That's why Truth, Love, Parent exists. We serve God by equipping dads and moms to be the ambassador parents

01:44:53

God called and created them to be. We produce free parenting resources, train church leaders, and offer biblical counseling so that the next generation of dads and moms can use the scriptures to parent their children for life and godliness.

01:45:06

Please visit us at TruthLoveParent .com. I'm Brian McLaughlin, president of the

01:45:27

SecureComm Group, and an enthusiastic supporter of Chris Arnson's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Program.

01:45:33

The SecureComm Group provides the highest level of security, closed -circuit television, access control, and communication systems for Manhattan's top residential buildings, as well as churches, commercial properties, municipalities, and more.

01:45:48

We custom -install exactly what you need to protect yourself, including digital recording, off -site viewing, and connectivity from most smart devices.

01:45:57

From simple code -activated systems to the latest technology using facial recognition, the

01:46:03

SecureComm Group has it. We also provide the latest in intercom and IP telephone systems.

01:46:10

In addition, we provide superior networking platforms. We'll create, maintain, and secure your local network.

01:46:17

Whether it's a Wi -Fi or hardwire network, we'll implement the latest secured firewall, endpoint solutions, and cloud backup.

01:46:25

I would love to have the honor and privilege of helping protect the lives and property of Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners and their associates.

01:46:33

For more details on how the SecureComm Group may be of service to you with the very latest in security innovations, call 718 -353 -3355.

01:46:45

That's 718 -353 -3355. Or visit securecommgroup .com.

01:46:53

That's securecommgroup .com. This is Brian McLaughlin of the SecureComm Group, joining

01:46:59

Chris Armstrong's family of advertisers to keep Iron Sharpens Iron radio on the air.

01:47:07

Puritan Reformed is a Bible -believing, kingdom -building, devil -fighting church. We are devoted to upholding the apostolic doctrine and practice preserved in Scripture alone.

01:47:18

Puritan Reformed teaches men to rule and lead as image -bearing prophets, priests, and kings.

01:47:25

We teach families to worship together as families. Puritan is committed to teaching the whole counsel of God so that the earth will be filled with the knowledge of God as the waters cover the sea.

01:47:38

We sing the Psalms, teach the law, proclaim the gospel, make disciples, maintain discipline, and exalt

01:47:44

Christ. This is Pastor David Reese of Puritan Reformed in Phoenix, Arizona.

01:47:50

Join us in the glorious cause of advancing Christ's crown and covenant over the kings of the earth.

01:47:57

Puritan Reformed Church. Believe. Build. Fight. puritanphx .com

01:48:17

It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners from all over the world.

01:48:23

Here's Joe Riley, a listener in Ireland, who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed,

01:48:32

Dr. Joe Moorcraft. I'm Joe Riley, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener here in Attoye in County Kildare, Ireland, going back to 2005.

01:48:42

One of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is Dr. Joe Moorcraft. If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron radio,

01:48:49

Dr. Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, are largely to thank since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.

01:48:58

Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.

01:49:04

Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards, and Dr.

01:49:10

Joe Moorcraft is the author of an eight -volume commentary on the larger catechism. Heritage is a member of the

01:49:15

Hanover Presbytery, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone, and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great

01:49:25

Protestant Reformation of the 16th century. Heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the reformers,

01:49:33

Scripture alone, grace alone, faith alone, Christ alone, and God's glory alone. Their primary goal is the worship of the

01:49:40

Triune God that continues in eternity. For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com.

01:49:48

That's heritagepresbyterianchurch .com, or call 678 -954 -7831.

01:49:56

That's 678 -954 -7831. If you visit, tell them

01:50:01

Joe O 'Reilly, an Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener, from Mattai, in County Kildare, Ireland, sends you.

01:50:15

I'm Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

01:50:20

I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,

01:50:27

Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.

01:50:34

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God, like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word, and to enthusiastically proclaim

01:50:51

Christ Jesus the King and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.

01:50:58

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love, as I have.

01:51:07

For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

01:51:14

That's hopereformedli .net. Or call 631 -696 -5711.

01:51:23

That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

01:51:40

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

01:51:46

New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the

01:51:54

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the

01:51:59

NASB. I'm Dr. Joe Moorcraft, pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia, and the

01:52:07

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Anthony Uvino, founder of thereformrookie .com

01:52:14

and co -founder of New York Apologetics, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

01:52:20

I'm Pastor Tim Bushong of Syracuse Baptist Church in Syracuse, Indiana, and the NASB is my

01:52:26

Bible of choice. I'm Eli Ayala, founder of Revealed Apologetics and staff member with the

01:52:31

Historical Bible Society, and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Josh Miller of Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, and the

01:52:40

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Joe Bianchi, president of Calvi Press Publishing in Greenville, South Carolina, and the

01:52:50

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Jake Korn of Switzerland Community Church in Switzerland, Florida, and the

01:53:00

NASB is my Bible of choice. Here's a great way for your church to help keep

01:53:05

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew bibles tattered and falling apart?

01:53:11

Consider restocking your pews with the NASB, and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:53:20

Go to nasbible .com, that's nasbible .com to place your order.

01:53:33

Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona. Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnzen and the

01:53:42

Iron Sharpens Iron podcast. I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions, while always defending the key doctrines of the

01:53:54

Christian faith. I've always been happy to point people to this podcast, knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet where folk won't be led astray.

01:54:02

I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide. This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised

01:54:09

Chris up for just such a time. Knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.

01:54:19

I'm pleased to do so, and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting

01:54:24

Iron Sharpens Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

01:54:33

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com,

01:54:40

where you can click support. That's ironsharpensironradio .com. Getting a driver's license, running a cash register, flipping burgers, passing 6th grade.

01:54:53

Do you know what they all have in common? They all require training, assessments, and certifications. But do you know what requires no training at all?

01:55:02

Becoming a parent. My name is A .M. Brewster. I'm the president of Truth, Love, Parent, and host of its award -winning podcast.

01:55:10

I've been a biblical family counselor since the early 2000s, and what I've discovered is that the majority of Christian parents have never been biblically equipped to do the work of the ministry in their homes.

01:55:20

That's why Truth, Love, Parent exists. We serve God by equipping dads and moms to be the ambassador parents

01:55:26

God called and created them to be. We produce free parenting resources, train church leaders, and offer biblical counseling so that the next generation of dads and moms can use the

01:55:35

Scriptures to parent their children for life and godliness. Please visit us at truthloveparent .com.

01:55:42

And I want to also remind our listeners, you've been hearing ads every day for the Historical Bible Society.

01:55:48

Please don't forget that this fine ministry is founded, or was founded, by Daniel P.

01:55:54

Buttafuoco, attorney at law. If anybody in our audience is the victim of a serious injury or medical malpractice, no matter where in the

01:56:02

United States you live, please call Dan at 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, or visit his website, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT .com.

01:56:11

Please mention that you heard about Dan's law firm at Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:56:16

And we are now back, and John Harris, I'd like you to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today before we go off the air.

01:56:27

Well, first is come to conference. If you're a man and you can make it, overcomingevilconference .com,

01:56:34

September 21st through 24th. For those who can't make it, though, and really for everyone,

01:56:39

I would just say that, you know, look around and see, look at the men that are in your life, and this really applies to everyone.

01:56:48

If you're an older man, you should be seeking to teach younger men. If you're a younger man, you should be looking for examples of older men.

01:56:56

If you're a woman, whether, you know, you're a father or you have a father or you have a husband, or even if you just have, you know, church leaders that are over you, seek to help them in their endeavors to be men.

01:57:09

Don't inhibit that, and women can inhibit that sometimes. They can make it hard for men to be men.

01:57:16

So really cultivate that masculine spirit because that's, there's multiple reasons, but I think for our moment right now, it's really important because we have so much evil being foisted on us and jammed down our throats every minute.

01:57:30

And the only thing that's really going to stave it back and protect our families, our churches, our communities, is men who are willing to actually be the kind of men that God called them to be.

01:57:41

And Andrew, any final words? I guess Andrew's gone.

01:57:47

No, I'm here. I don't have any final words other than what John said. I mean, it'd be great to see guys come to this men's retreat.

01:57:55

It's going to be a little bit different than a conference because there's a lot of time just to be sitting, and with the speakers as well, and just pick their brains and really have manly discussions sitting around a campfire.

01:58:07

So a lot of this is going to be the fellowship and not just the teaching. So it's something you really want to participate in.

01:58:13

Great. Well, don't forget the website to register for this free event.

01:58:19

And if you could, John Harris, repeat that for us. OvercomingEvilConference .com

01:58:27

OvercomingEvilConference .com And don't forget about Andrew Rappaport's ministry, StrivingForEternity .org

01:58:35

StrivingForEternity .org I want to conclude with another plea to our listeners.

01:58:41

If you really love this show, folks, we really need your help financially in a big way. Please go to IronSharpensIronRadio .com,

01:58:49

click Support, then click Click to Donate Now. You could donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion.

01:58:54

And if you would like to advertise with us, whether it's your church, parachurch, ministry, business, or private practice, like a law firm or medical firm, or just a special event, please send me an e -mail to ChrisArnsin at gmail .com

01:59:07

and put advertising in the subject line. We are in urgent need of your help. And if you really love this show and you really don't want it to disappear and you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to provide for your church and family because we never want to take away from any of those financial needs of yours, well, please, if you are blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands of God, please help us.

01:59:32

We really need your help. IronSharpensIronRadio .com, click Support, and then click Click to Donate Now.

01:59:38

I want to remind all of you that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater