February 6, 2019 Show with Jon Speed on “A Christian Response to the New Boldness of Baby Killers”

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Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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Now here's our host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this sixth day of February 2019, and I am so delighted to have for the very first time ever on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, John Speed.

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You may have recently seen or heard John on Sean Hannity's radio program and also on Fox television, on Fox and Friends, or somewhere else.

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John Speed is a bivocational church planting pastor in postmodern

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Syracuse, New York since 2011, and you could check out Christ is

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King Baptist Church in Syracuse, New York at Sermon Audio. He is a used and rare bookseller operating

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John Speed the Book Scout since 1994, owner of a brick -and - mortar bookshop on the south side of Syracuse.

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JohnSpeedBooks .com is where you could find out more information about that brick -and -mortar store. He's the author of Evangelism in the

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New Testament and co -producer of the pro -life documentary, Babies Are Murdered Here.

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He's also currently assisting with the filming of the sequel to that documentary, Babies Are Still Murdered Here, which is being produced through endabortionnow .com.

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That's endabortionnow .com, a website that I want you all to memorize and become very familiar with.

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Today we are going to be addressing the theme, A Christian Response to the New Boldness of Baby Killers, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever,

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The Alliance for Urban Design Radio, John Speed. Thank you so much, it's great to be here. And the pleasure is all mine, brother, and before we go into a summary of your testimony of salvation, which is something that I have, typically anyway,

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I have first -time guests do on this show, I'd like to have you describe, at least in a summary fashion, something about Christ is

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King Baptist Church. Okay, well Christ is King Baptist Church is a church plant from First Baptist Church of Brier in Azle, Texas, and you know we've been here since, like you said, 2011.

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And this is in Syracuse, New York. Right, Syracuse, New York, and it's been a challenge, you know, it's not easy plowing.

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We've done a lot of evangelism here in the area, a lot of different forms of evangelism, and just faithfully trying to preach and teach the

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Word of God to the people that God would bring us. Our confession would be the 1689

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Second London Baptist Confession. The church is maybe like 25 -30 people on Sunday morning, and right now

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I'm preaching through the book of John, and about chapter 4. We're taking a break right now because of recent events to go through nine marks of a healthy church, and mainly just to kind of explain to people if they're coming to visit because of the recent media to understand what we really are aiming to be.

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So that's the church. And you wanted to hear my testimony? Yeah, what we normally do on this show is we have first -time guests give a summary of the salvation testimony that they have, something about your religious upbringing, if any, and the

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Sovereign Lord's providence that he brought into your life, providential occurrences that he raised up that drew you to himself and saved you.

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Right. So I was brought up in a Christian home, but I did not,

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I was not regenerated until, well actually I went up through a youth group and church and everything, and I was kind of a leader in the youth group.

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And what kind of a flavor of Christianity was this?

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That would be typical, like, non -denominational, evangelical background is the way

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I would describe it. So yeah, I was just a leader in the youth group, and they said we ought to go to Bible College.

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It would be dispensational, for sure. And then I went to Bible College and I was a leader there, so they said we ought to go into ministry.

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And I did all that, but I had never been regenerate until I was in the ministry for about 12 years.

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And then what happened was I heard a preacher of the gospel from South Africa, his name was

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Keith Daniel, I think he's still preaching, and in the process of hearing him preach,

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I just was confronted with the fact that God really hadn't done a work in my life. There was never any repentance.

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The faith that I professed did not really have any fruit of salvation evident there.

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It was fruit, but it was all things that just are basically religious in the evangelical world and not true character change or true repentance, and I was faced with my lost state.

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And so I God was very gracious and opened my eyes. He gave me that gift of repentance and gave me what saving faith is.

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He gave me that, and yeah, things changed radically. That's when

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I began getting concerned about evangelism and started street preaching.

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And that's when I ended up about a year later resigning from the ministry that I was pastoring to go do some evangelism training with a ministry that was affiliated with Ray Comfort's Living Waters.

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So yeah, so I did some evangelism training with those folks after that, and that was kind of my seminary, and I was in a couple of good churches in Texas that really did a great job discipling me.

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And yeah, then we came back here to plant. And why Syracuse?

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Why is it that this church in Texas has such a burden on their heart for the lost and also believers who need to be discipled in Syracuse?

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Well, I would come up here about once a year when I was doing evangelism ministry to visit churches that I knew up here.

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I would do some evangelism training, and I would often come through Syracuse. And I've always been fascinated by it.

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I grew up near Buffalo, and I didn't know much about it. So I started jumping off a highway and exploring the area a little bit, and when

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I got back to Texas, I would start looking up information on Syracuse to see what was going on here.

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And I started sharing that with a senior pastor at First Baptist Briar, that's

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Randall Easter, and we prayed over that, and I put together a proposal, and we put it before the church.

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They ordained me for the ministry, and yeah, they sent us up here to do it.

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They just caught a vision for it based on the research that I'd done, what I was able to find out. And tell us a little bit about johnspeedbooks .com.

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I've been selling used and rare books for about 25 years, and I've done it mostly on the internet.

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About four years ago, almost five years ago, we opened up a brick and mortar.

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I bought a couple of collections that were just sitting in storage, and the church was, at the time, was meeting in a house, and we really felt we needed a place to meet other than a house.

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And so the store essentially does double duty. We built the kiosks in the center of the store so they could roll out of the way, and we set up Saturday night for Sunday morning.

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And we also have services here Wednesday night, prayer meetings in the mornings, and you know, so it does double duty as a bookstore and place for the church to meet.

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Great. Well now, let's hear about the pro -life documentary that you co -produced with Marcus Pittman, Babies Are Murdered Here.

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And by the way, if anybody, after this live show is over, if you ever want to revisit www .IronTrippinsIronRadio

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.com and go into the archive where it says past shows, podcast, you can type in the name

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P as in Peter, I, T as in Thomas, T as in Thomas, MAN, and the interview with Marcus Pittman will come up on Babies Are Murdered Here and the sequel that is being created now,

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Babies Are Still Murdered Here. But for those of our listeners who have not had the privilege of hearing

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Marcus's interview with me on Iron Trippins Iron Radio, tell us about this documentary.

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Yeah, Babies Are Murdered Here essentially started by accident. I asked

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Marcus to come out to film our church so we would sort of have a video overviewing our ministry, but what ended up happening was

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I booked the ticket to return before church started on Sunday, so it's kind of hard to do something like that if you're sending him back before church.

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And so he's like, well what are we going to do? And I knew of an abortion clinic, well an OBGYN office that does abortions near us that advertises on their website that they don't have protesters there, or at least they did advertise that, that they didn't have protesters.

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And so I said, well why don't we go out there? And a friend of mine named Robert had always had the idea of taking a sign that just said

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Babies Are Murdered Here, just in letters, no graphics, nothing, just in black and red. And that's what we did the night before.

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We got some poster board and just started sketching out these letters and we went out there to film the result.

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And the result of it was so powerful that Marcus made a trailer, like a minute and a half trailer, and he dropped that on the internet.

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And that thing went crazy, and people all around the country just started sketching out Babies Are Murdered Here signs and going out in front of abortion clinics and standing there, not just to stand there to protest, but to actually preach the gospel while you're out there, which is sort of a foreign concept unfortunately in the pro -life movement these days.

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And so for that year we just went around the country filming the results of what people were doing with the idea.

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And what we ended up with was a 52 -minute documentary that really is meant to mobilize local churches to go to the abortion clinics to preach the gospel and also to offer real help to the abortive moms and dads that are going there, to reach out to them to try to intervene for the life of the baby, but also to preach the gospel to that situation.

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And if anybody wants to see the entire film absolutely free of charge, you can go to BabiesAreMurderedHere .com.

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That's BabiesAreMurderedHere .com. Right now I'm going to play the interview that you recently had with Sean Hannity.

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It's not very long so I can play the entire interview. This is not to beat up Sean.

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This is not to take away from all the good that Sean has done and continues to do.

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I'm very glad that he is out there very often providing a voice of reason and truth that you don't hear elsewhere.

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But there is a difference of opinion and approach and strategy and ideology when it comes to the rescue of unborn children and even born children, children born quote -quote accidentally through, during an attempt at murdering that child, during an attempt at aborting that child, there have been children born alive.

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In fact there was an Infant Born Alive Act proposed a number of years ago in order to save children such as that.

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They were being put in storage closets and other places in hospitals where they were just left to die of dehydration and starvation and that tragically still happens.

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Very little different from what Dr. Gosnell was doing, for which he received a life sentence, which he is still serving.

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The only difference is that he actually took a pair of scissors and ended the child's or the children's lives more quickly than letting them slowly die of dehydration in a shoebox somewhere in a closet.

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But I'm gonna play this interview that Sean had with my guest today,

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Jon Speed, and then I'm gonna have Jon further react or respond to his own interview and add my own commentary and questions to that.

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So I hope that you all listen carefully and we will be back with the live portion of the interview momentarily.

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Jon Speed closed his bookstore in protest of the signing of this bill. Placed a sign in the storefront it read, today is a day of mourning in New York State.

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We will not be collecting sales taxes today for a tyrannical government that murders babies.

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We will resume regular business tomorrow, collecting sales tax under duress. He is a pastor at Christ the

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King Baptist Church, I assume in Syracuse also. He joins us now. How are you?

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I'm well. Thanks for having me on the show. Let's go to the heart of this. Now, apparently this is now the big cause for the left in the country, and I don't think it's even about abortion.

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This is about legalizing infanticide. Well, you know, whenever a woman has an abortion after 24 weeks, they're essentially giving birth.

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It's either by c -section or natural birth, even when they're doing an abortion. They are having birth, they're having a birth process, and this baby that they're giving birth to is going to be murdered.

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It's no more, no less than that. Well, the child at this point is viable on its own, and when you really think about it,

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I mean, it is the ultimate in innocence. If anyone needs protections of government in the sense that, you know, at that point, if it's a living human being on its own, to allow this to happen is unconscionable to me.

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It's gruesome in many ways. Anyway, so you made this statement about New York taxes.

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What's the result? What has been the consequences and results of your stand? What happened? Well, the consequences, we've had a few people in the immediate neighborhood who weren't really happy about us talking about it at all, but other than that, it's been overwhelmingly positive.

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We've had, I was talking to my wife here a minute ago, I think we're around 650 orders in that neighborhood.

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We've come in for multiple titles. It's just been an incredible... Is that a lot for you?

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650 is a big day. That is, you know, we might do on a big day 10.

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Wow. What's your website? We can plug away. So people can buy any book from you, or do you find hard -to -find books?

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Yeah, we do out -of -print, hard -to -find. Our website is johnspeedbooks .com,

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and yeah, so the support's been overwhelming. Actually, it's ironic, because now we're probably gonna have to shut the store down for two weeks while we fill these orders.

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We've got volunteers in here that we're training today. No, no, no, no, no. Don't stop taking the orders.

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Just say, we'll get to it as quickly as possible. Let me help you out as a businessman. That's what we're doing. Don't shut down for two weeks.

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We're taking all your orders. What's the website again? johnspeedbooks .com.

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Exactly. It's funny, because I just, now that I know you exist, I just bought a whole bunch of Taylor Caldwell original hardback novels.

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I got the whole collection, and I could have just gone to you, and you could have gotten it for me. She happens to be my favorite novelist, and over Christmas.

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Yeah, well, you know, I don't even know what else to say, except that I really have a hard time understanding how this has become the big cause of state after state.

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We know New York's liberal, California's liberal, but I don't even know anybody that I know that's pro -choice, that supports abortion in the first trimester, that would support this.

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A few years ago, we did a documentary called Babies Are Murdered Here. I know there's debates about when the baby's viable, but I think it's pretty clear at conception.

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You've got human life. It's not a giraffe. Yeah, it's not a goldfish or something.

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This is human life, and I think when we start to really get a sense that this is really murder, we might actually rise up and do something about it.

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Well, a lot of people think, I mean, there's a lot of hyperbole, especially when there's a Supreme Court opening.

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You know, if you remember infamously, Ted Kennedy going out there, Robert Bork's America, you know, segregation and back alley abortions.

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No, if Roe v. Wade were somehow overturned, not likely by the way, whether people want to hear that or not, it would go back to the states, and states like, you're always going to have states that are having legal abortion.

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The question is, you know, at what point, when the child's viable, at what point do you say, you have to make a decision?

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You can't wait till you're giving birth to say, you know what, I'm not having a good feeling about this.

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Yeah, right. Yeah, and really, really, there's a time before that, and that's when they decide to have sex.

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Well, there's a lot of choices there, too. I mean, if you want to prevent pregnancy, it's very easy to do, isn't it?

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Yeah, abstain. Well, that's the short fire way, but I'm talking about, there's plenty of birth control.

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If you decide you're gonna have sex, you can prevent pregnancy, and we should be, you know, if you're not ready, whatever, but even that said, there is, you know, this is not even, to me, abortion.

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This is just infanticide, pure and simple, and how it's become the big cause of the left,

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I don't know what's happened to this party, but all right, Pastor, listen, I wish you the best in your bookstore, and it's johnspeed, what is it, books .com?

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That's correct. Okay. And we also have endabortionnow .com. It's a great resource if people want to get involved in that.

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Okay, thank you, and you know, there's other groups out there like Live Action, Lila Rose, and you know, other people.

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I did, you know, just search your own conscience on something like this, and we'll talk more about it at the top of the hour. Well, that was the interview that Sean recently had with my guest today,

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John Speed, and I'm not a mind reader, of course, but there seems to be an attempt by fellow conservatives, fellow citizens who believe in a child's right to live, both inside the womb and out.

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There seems to be a strategy of pragmatism, where to soften the blow or soften the rhetoric with pro -choice quote, quote, individuals or family, friends, neighbors, and so on, perhaps to make ourselves look less extreme.

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There seems to be a compartmentalism going on where, well, we can understand why somebody would believe in abortion, but this is totally different.

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Now, obviously, the death by neglect that is happening with babies that are actually born, it's more shocking because it clearly rips the mask off of the pro -abortion movement.

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There is no excuse here of ignorance that could be made. For instance, you know, for years, it's not so much the rhetoric today, but when

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I was growing up, for years, the rhetoric was, well, nobody really knows when life begins, and it's a blob of tissue, etc.,

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etc., etc., but when you have a baby who's born and perhaps even crying in a little bassinet or a shoebox, whatever they put those babies in, just lying there, perhaps on a surgical table of some kind, there is something more shocking about it.

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But if you could basically state in your own words where you're coming from, where the difference might be in your personal agenda, your strategy, your approach, your ideology, than those pro -life folks around us, and perhaps even including

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Sean Hannity, who have a different approach. Yeah, I mean, my approach is to call a spade a spade, as they used to say.

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I tried to do that in the interview. You know, abortion is murder, and that's part of the problem in the pro -life movement.

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When we did that movie five years ago, we caught all kinds of flak from the pro -life movement.

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You can't, you know, they're like trying to educate us, us upstarts, on how this is supposed to really be fought, and they would say, well, you can't call abortion murder.

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That's just psychologically damaging. Really? Yeah, it was so extreme that one of the really leading people in the pro -life movement called the

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FBI on me. Wow. They were like, well, yeah, we're convinced that you're gonna end up creating, you know, like abortion clinic bombers or, you know, murders of abortion clinic doctors because you're saying that this is murder.

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And, you know, I'm saying, look, I was being very clear. We don't believe that. Romans 13 says it's the government's role to bear the sword against the evildoer.

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That's not a vigilante's role. That's the government's role. What I'm trying to do is help people understand that this is serious.

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You use direct words to wake people up. And then they would start, you know, lecturing us about calling abortion sin, which really shocked me because most of the pro -life movement's

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Roman Catholic, and even in their own catechism it's described as sin. Wow.

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And then it became clear, as time went on, that they didn't want the gospel being preached.

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Well, obviously I could understand a Roman Catholic organization that is dedicated to the pro -life movement.

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I can understand them not wanting the gospel preached because they have a different one. Sure, and yeah, and what was funny was they would send this email out and say, okay, so whenever you see these people show up with these signs, just make sure that you get away from them, as far away from them as you can, because you don't want to be associated with them.

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And I replied to that and I said, don't worry about that. You know, when we come out there with the Bible and we preach the gospel, they scatter when we come out there like cockroaches.

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You don't have to tell them that, and it's because they don't want to hear the truth, like you just said.

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So we found out it was a real education. I didn't know anything, really, about the pro -life movement when

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I got started in this thing. We just did this because we wanted to do something about abortion, and the gospel seems like the best way to do something about it.

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Yeah, well, there is a reason that I titled today's show,

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A Christian Response to the New Boldness of Baby Killers. As we have already established, you and myself agree on the fact that all abortion is the murder of a child, or children if someone is carrying twins or triplets or quadruplets, etc.

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But so nothing has really changed, other than the boldness.

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The in -your -face, yeah, we know it's a child, but it's still the right of a mother whether or not this child lives.

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This is still a private discussion, as Governor Northam recently said very calmly in a cool, common, collected manner, describing how the baby after it's delivered would be kept comfortable while the mother and her physician discuss this.

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They have a little chat on what are we going to do with this thing that just made life more uncomfortable for you.

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So there is something that is more grotesquely shocking because, as I was saying earlier, the veil of alleged ignorance or alleged mystery that for centuries people have disagreed on when life begins and all this kind of talk, that's that's all flushed down the toilet.

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You're talking about people supporting the kind of rhetoric or the kind of ideology or activity, actual deeds of someone like Governor Northam and those so -called physicians that are in abortion mills letting babies who have actually been born die through neglect.

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And so there is something more shocking about the level of hatred for God and his word that the left has stooped to, if you if you care to comment on what

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I'm saying. Yeah, I think it might go along with what the Apostle Paul says in Romans about being turned over to a depraved mind.

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You know, the wrath of God is revealed in this. People are saying right now, well, this judgment's going to come because we're doing this, you know, judgment's coming.

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I've been contending for a long time now, and I'm not the only one, that this is judgment, that this is the manifest display of the wrath of God.

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Same -sex marriage and all these things that many of us never believed would would occur here in the

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United States, and it's just shocking to see these things. And you're absolutely right. In fact, my my dear friend

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Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, when the marriage of two people of the same gender became legal, he was saying, we are not waiting for the judgment of God, this is the judgment of God.

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Yeah, exactly. And so, you know, I try to point that out, I've even pointed that out in personal evangelism encounters out in front of these places.

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And also, when I've had opportunities to speak to it in the church, we just have to correct our thinking.

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We are a culture under judgment, and what we're praying for at this point is not the removal of...

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we have to pray that God and his wrath will remember mercy. You know, just cry out to God and say,

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God, would you have mercy on our culture in spite of the fact that it's deserved? Would you allow us to save some babies?

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Would you allow us to save some souls, you know, and to pluck them from the fire?

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Because it's clear, it's just so evident, it's undeniable. And we are going to our first station break right now.

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If you'd like to join us on the air with a question for John Speed, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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chrisarnson at gmail .com. Please, as always, give us at least your first name, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA. I obviously understand full well that a subject like this will lend itself, possibly, to people having personal and intimately private questions that they want to ask, so I will give you permission to send in your question anonymously if indeed it is about a personal and private matter.

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But if it's just a general question involving this topic, please at least give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence.

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So that's chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away, we'll be right back with John Speed and more of a

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.nyc. Have a great day. Welcome back, this is Chris Zarnes, and if you just tuned in to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, our guest today for the full two hours, with a little less than 90 minutes to go, is

39:26

John Speed, pastor at Christ is King Baptist Church in Syracuse, New York.

39:32

He is the owner of a bookstore where details can be found at johnspeedbooks .com,

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New Testament, and he is also the co - producer of the documentary Babies Are Murdered Here, and is currently assisting on the creation of the sequel,

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Babies Are Still Murdered Here, which is being produced through endabortionnow .com.

40:00

That's endabortionnow .com. We are discussing a Christian response to the new boldness of baby killers, and if you have a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

40:11

c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com. Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

40:22

USA, and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. We do have a listener in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, Ted, and Ted has two questions for you, and I'm going to enlarge the font on Ted's email because it's very small, and I'm going blind, and this is a reminder to all of my listeners, if you could, no matter how ridiculous it may look to you when you're sending an email, put it on giant font as big as you can so I can see what

40:56

I'm reading here, and if you want to join Ted in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, with a question of your own, it's chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

41:05

chrisarnsen at gmail .com. Okay, here we have a first question.

41:14

Do you share the theonomist commitments of your partner Marcus Pittman, and if so, what do you think the appropriate punishment should be for a woman who has had an abortion?

41:25

That's the first question, and we'll have you deal with that first. Okay, yeah, I do believe that the law of God is just, and if we lived in a just society that we would use the law of God as a standard.

41:44

I do believe that we would, like every other theonomist that I know of says, we would also take into consideration the

41:53

New Testament in regards to the Old Testament, but in this case when we're talking about abortion, then

41:58

I would say yeah, a just law in this case would include the execution of the abortionist for sure, if we had a just law, and I believe it would also include the same for the abortive mom.

42:19

I know that sounds harsh to people. We don't have a just law. I do not believe that it's our job to, as I said earlier regarding Romans 13,

42:30

I don't believe it's our job to bear the sword. I think that those who are in power will answer to God for not, you know, using

42:39

His laws as a rule of thumb for our laws, but yeah,

42:45

I mean, I'm not ashamed to say that. In other words, you're not supporting vigilantism, you're not supporting people doing things on their own accord as private citizens, like blowing up abortion clinics, or murdering abortionists in the street or in their home, or the women who have voluntarily had their abortions.

43:06

Yeah, and I, you know, for those who would hold to the death penalty, which I would, at least it used to be most evangelicals, believe that the death penalty is just,

43:18

I think you'd have a hard time explaining why you don't believe that in the case of abortion.

43:27

A just law would be this way. You know, so yeah,

43:33

I guess that answers the question. Now, obviously, as you said, there will be case -by -case things in your view.

43:42

If this were, if we were ever to reach a point in our society where these things were put into place, and obviously you would have to be a post -millennialist to believe that they could.

43:54

I'm assuming you would not believe that every single woman who has had or is going to have an abortion, well obviously if she hadn't had it yet, she wouldn't be guilty of the crime, but but for instance, there are women who are girls, young girls, teenage girls, perhaps even those girls who are not even teenagers yet, who have developed biologically early, who have become pregnant, and they are being forced against their own wills by their parents.

44:28

Yeah. Because their parents want to be spared embarrassment or whatever the case is.

44:34

Perhaps the race of the child is not what the parents want. You could go on and on and on.

44:40

Or perhaps the girl is a victim of child molestation, rape, and so on.

44:46

But the girl is not one of these women who has a flippant attitude. Hey, this is going to cramp my style.

44:53

This is going to interrupt my sex life. This is just inconvenient. I'm gonna have to take time off of work.

44:58

You know, this is a, you know, there is a different situation. You're not talking about an adult making a conscious decision.

45:05

Yeah, and obviously in that situation, it's like any other trial, right?

45:12

I mean, if it's in a perfect world, or a better world, we would look at it like, let's look at the details of this.

45:20

Let's examine this and make a just decision based on the facts. And when it comes to these cases that you mentioned, obviously there are cases where there's coercion.

45:30

Sex trafficking is another example. A lot of times these women who are involved in sex trafficking, you know, they are going to the clinics because their pimp or whatever is making them have the abortion.

45:46

I think in those cases you have to look at who's the guilty party here in that sense. At the same time, we also have to recognize that most of the women that go to the clinics, and you'll see it in our film, the first film,

46:00

Babies Are Murdered Here, the vast majority of the women that are going to the clinics are not victims.

46:08

The vast majority of them that are going to the clinics know exactly what they're doing. They're well aware that it's a baby.

46:15

Yeah, that was a shocking thing that was... I was unaware of, until I interviewed

46:24

Jeff Durbin of Apologia Church, Apologia Studios, I was unaware of the fact, at least in his personal experience, evangelizing in abortion mills, that the majority of women that he has encountered going into those places know full well that they are having a baby murdered.

46:42

That was a surprise to me. Yeah, and that's what we exposed in that film, and that has been my experience every time

46:49

I've been out there. I don't think, I did another interview where I said this, I do not think that I've met the woman yet who is a victim.

46:59

I mean, I'm sure they're out there. I know that they're out there, but I have not met that one yet, and I've been doing this, you know, since 2011.

47:09

So, you know, I don't know. You got to allow for it, you know, so I don't know.

47:17

It's one of those things that these women... part of the problem is we think that everybody's still arguing clumps of cells, right?

47:26

That the abortionists are telling them that these are clumps of cells. Well, the prenatal science is so advanced at this stage, even the abortionists aren't calling it clumps of cells anymore.

47:37

They're just saying, this is better for you, and in a lot of cases they're saying this is better for your baby.

47:43

Wow. It's better for your baby to die than to come into the world that you can offer it. Wow. It's sick.

47:49

It's sick. Now, before I go on to Ted's second question, how do you respond to what would no doubt be the reaction,

47:59

I'm assuming that maybe even many in my listening audience are reacting in this fashion, if you are going to kill any hope of the advance of the movement to protect the life of the unborn?

48:15

It's rhetoric like Chris Arnzen's guest today, who are saying that this crime of murdering an unborn child should be a crime punishable by death, not only for the so -called physician, but also for the mother.

48:31

How do you respond to that kind of a response who think, you know, and in pragmatic terms, they might even be horrified by that notion themselves.

48:40

Sure. How on earth could you view the women as an inclusion in this punishment when they are victims of society because they've been brainwashed, that this is a completely acceptable thing, it's been legal for years, and so on and so on?

48:57

I tend to look at these things really simplistically, and maybe it's a fault of mine,

49:03

I don't think so. I believe in the sufficiency of the Word of God, and I believe that the

49:10

Word of God is true, and I believe God is true and every man is a liar. And so those who would say that there's a better way of doing this other than saying what

49:21

God has said, I think, you know, especially with your audience, right, they're theologically astute.

49:30

You know, we all believe that. Why does it suddenly change when it comes to this issue? Because of the emotions, because of pragmatism.

49:40

I'm afraid that right now in the evangelical world, and it's not just limited to the, you know, what we call the evangelical church,

49:48

I think it's definitely in the Reformed world, we have adopted a pragmatism that I think, you know, is rebuke -worthy.

49:58

I think we need to get back to what God has said, and when somebody disagrees with what

50:07

God says, just repeat it and say, no, this is what God has said. And, you know, again, the reality is

50:15

I can't make any of those things happen. I can preach the gospel, I can understand the sovereignty of God and His judgment and why it is that we are in the position that we're in, but I'm not gonna change what

50:30

God has said just to make it sound easier to people. We wouldn't accept that from a Joel Steen.

50:37

Right. I mean, we wouldn't accept that. When I went on Fox & Friends the other day, I shared the gospel on there, and the reason

50:46

I did it is because I believe the gospel is the power of God in salvation. I believe God's Word is powerful.

50:51

We just have to unleash it, like Dr. MacArthur has said so many times. In this instance, we need to trust

50:57

God and not our, you know, our psychological leanings or whatever.

51:03

We need to speak boldly about this and not hide over it, not hide and cower behind,

51:09

I don't know, pragmatic thinking. Now, one other thing to clear up. If your post -millennial vision were to actually begin occurring quite earlier than you might expect and the laws of our nation were being governed according to the scriptures, as you would see logically consistent,

51:34

I'm assuming that you would not envision as something desirable the rounding up of women who had these abortions, who had murdered their children, during a point of time when this was a legal thing.

51:51

You're talking about as soon as the laws were established, that that would be, that should be a warning enough, do not do this or be afraid, be very afraid.

52:03

Right, yeah, I mean, you can't go retroactive and say, okay, we're going to round everybody up.

52:09

I don't see that as, maybe somebody would say, oh, you're inconsistent. Well, I could be, but I think that just practically speaking, you have to sort of play the hand that you're dealt, you got to deal with the reality that you're in, and I think it's the right way to do it is going forward from there, not going retroactively.

52:31

In fact, I have seen, even recently on television, liberals, or should

52:40

I say leftist totalitarians, who are very astute about this issue because they know that pro -life people are being inconsistent when they are viewing the murder of an unborn baby in a different way than the murder of an adult or even a child that has been already born and breathing free air outside of the mother's womb.

53:02

Like Chris Matthews, for instance, I have seen him try to trap people into admitting that a woman who murders her baby should be guilty of the death penalty, should be a proper recipient if the laws were on the books.

53:20

Right. And because he knows that's a that is something that will make even pro -life people recoil in horror and disgust and shock and awe.

53:32

So if you could respond to that, because I think that they are very wise in an evil way, these leftists are very wise to try to bring that up in conversations.

53:44

In fact, you may remember when Donald Trump was running for president before he was elected, he,

53:50

I think it was prior to his election, where he was during a discussion with a reporter revealing that he thought that the women who have these abortions should be punished, and everyone went berserk in the media over that.

54:05

But if you could comment. Yeah, two things I'd say about that. First of all, yeah, they are wise to do it because they actually listen to what the pro -life people are saying more than most evangelicals do, and they're willing to equivocate on their language to try to win the battle all day long.

54:24

It's about, you know, first they do it with the gospel, but they they do it with a lot of their incremental legislation as well.

54:32

So that's no surprise that they are willing to equivocate. So Chris Matthews is just, it's just good debating style to do that kind of thing to make you look stupid.

54:44

Or evil, or heartless, or hypocritical, whatever they want to do with that.

54:51

Misogynists, you could go on and on. Right, right. And so, you know,

54:56

I'd take the, and I learned this just preaching on college campuses when I did more of that.

55:03

I have found that when people say, I bet you believe that, you know, in the death penalty.

55:09

Well, yeah, I do. You don't? Why don't you? You know, when you take that tack, it throws them for a loop to begin with.

55:18

They've never heard it. And yeah, that's, it's a better position to argue from to begin with.

55:26

And I'm just going to hold on to the authority of God's Word, not people's opinions about it.

55:32

And, of course, the goal in this, even for the most ardent theonomist and reconstructionist, and by the way, to my listeners,

55:44

I just want to clarify that I have not yet come to this position. I do listen very carefully to my brothers and friends who are theonomists.

55:55

I haven't been convinced of that position yet, but I don't think it's something outside of biblical soundness and orthodoxy.

56:04

But the most adamant theonomist and reconstructionist, it's not his joy thinking about the execution of people who disobey

56:19

God's law, especially when it comes to those crimes that warranted a death penalty.

56:25

It's to prevent those crimes from occurring to begin with, right? Right, right. Yeah, I mean, that's the goal.

56:33

I mean, it starts with loving God. You love

56:38

Him, you love His law, you love His truth, all of it, and you want to see Him glorified, and you want what's best for your neighbor.

56:46

You know, I'll love your neighbor as yourself. The best thing for our unborn neighbors would be for abortion to be criminalized.

56:55

Life becomes infinitely safer. Now, do I think that it will end abortion in the sense that there'll never ever be another abortion?

57:04

Well, I wasn't born yesterday. You know, there will be back alley abortions if that sort of thing happens.

57:10

But, you know, murders ought to happen in the back alleys. If they're going to happen anywhere, that's where they ought to happen.

57:18

They shouldn't happen under sanction of government. They shouldn't happen with our New York State Governor Cuomo, you know, and all of his cronies there in Albany just yucking it up and laughing while they're signing the bill.

57:32

That's wicked, and it's a far better alternative than it would be criminalized.

57:38

So, yeah, that's my thoughts on that, I guess. Yeah, it's amazing whenever I hear leftists use those analogies.

57:48

Oh, you're going to bring back an increase in women who are mutilated or killed in back alley abortions.

57:58

Well, if a woman is going to break the law through the attempts of murdering her own child, why should we be overly compassionate about something like that?

58:09

We wouldn't do it in any other time. Right, and Ted's second question, in fact, what

58:15

I'll do is I'll ask you Ted's second question, and you could respond to it when we return from the break.

58:21

Okay. Could you comment on the conflict you had with the organization known as Abolish Human Abortion a few years ago, and what opinions do you hold of their strategies and tactics?

58:35

And we will have you respond to that second question by Ted when we come back from our break. This is an elongated break.

58:42

This is the break that Grace Life Radio in Lake City, Florida, who airs our program, requires of us because of the fact that they air their own commercials and public service announcements during this program, and so therefore we have to take a longer period of time during this midway section.

59:04

And if you would please use this time wisely by not only writing down questions for our guest

59:10

John Speed about abortion, but also writing down the information provided by our advertisers, because the more frequently and successfully you patronize our advertisers, the more likely they are going to remain in existence, and the more likely they are going to continue supporting

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Iron Trip and Zion Radio with their advertising dollars, which means the more likely we are going to exist or remain in existence.

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So please patronize our advertisers as much as you can and further ensure that will occur by writing down the information that they provide.

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Don't go away, God willing, we're gonna be right back after these messages from our sponsors with more of John Speed.

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In 1st Peter chapter 2 verse 9 the Apostle Peter describes Christ's church as comprising a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who has called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

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I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

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It's called New Covenant Church, NYC. They are a Reformed Baptist church that meets in midtown

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Manhattan. You can find their service times and location on their website which is www .ncc

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If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching, in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit

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Let them know that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio. I just have a brief plea that I want you to hear in regard to helping

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Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio remain on the air. If you love this program, you listen to it every day, you love the guests and topics that we offer here that very often are rarely heard anywhere else, sometimes they're never heard anywhere else, then please consider donating as often as you can and as heavily as you can to Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio by going to ironsharpensironradio .com,

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click support, then click click to donate now. You could donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that way, and if you prefer snail mail, when you click support at ironsharpensironradio .com,

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Those two things are commands of God in the God -breathed pages of the scriptures providing for your church and providing for your family.

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Providing for Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio is obviously not a command in scripture, but if you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to provide for your church and home, then please consider adding

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We need your donations and the advertising dollars of our sponsors to exist. So go to ironsharpensironradio .com,

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click support, then click click to donate now or mail in a check being payable to Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio to the address that you will see on your screen after clicking support on ironsharpensironradio .com.

01:18:07

Also, if you are not a member of a local Bible -believing church and you're not prayerfully seeking for one, you are living in rebellion against God.

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So please rectify that situation. If you need a church home, then send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com,

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chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put in the subject line something like, I need a church home and I have lists of churches that are biblically faithful all over the world.

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I've helped a number of people in the Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio audience find churches that they have actually joined as a result of sending me an email requesting help.

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So please send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and request help in finding a church.

01:18:50

We are now back with our guest today, John Speed. If you've just tuned us in,

01:18:56

John Speed is the pastor of Christ is King Baptist Church in Syracuse, New York.

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You can find out more information on Christ is King Baptist Church at Sermon Audio's website.

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He also is the owner of a bookstore, and you can find out more details at johnspeedbooks .com,

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and John is spelled J -O -N, johnspeedbooks .com. He's the author of Evangelism in the

01:19:19

New Testament and the co -producer of the documentary Babies Are Murdered Here, and currently working on the sequel to that,

01:19:29

Babies Are Still Murdered Here, produced through endabortionnow .com,

01:19:35

endabortionnow .com. We are addressing a Christian response to the new boldness of baby killers, and I just want to not to belabor this point, but I want to give my listeners something to think about.

01:19:47

I have a good feeling that there are people in the listening audience of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio who are saying, wow, these theonomists, these reconstructionists are nut jobs.

01:20:01

They're actually advocating the execution of doctors, so -called, and women who have had abortions.

01:20:09

Well, I just want you all to think deeply and carefully and prayerfully about this.

01:20:16

Most conservative Bible -believing Christians, I know, are in favor of the death penalty, and if you are, you have to really think about why you are.

01:20:27

What authority do you look to to have that view, and why would you want to exempt anyone who murders babies from the category of the guilt and deservedness of a death penalty?

01:20:46

And I'm saying this as someone who is not a reconstructionist or a theonomist, and so therefore even those outside of that camp or those camps, they have to grapple with that.

01:20:58

And do you have anything further to say about that, John? Yeah, I mean, I think if you believe any differently than that, what you are admitting to inadvertently is that you have a lesser view of the life in the womb than you do life outside of it, and you've fallen for the pro -choice lie.

01:21:19

Right. One thing I want you to address before I go to any more listener questions is incrementalism.

01:21:29

There are many in the pro -life movement, those who share our love for the unborn, our passion to see them rescued from being murdered, who, unlike you, believe in something that is called incrementalism.

01:21:47

It's a pragmatic approach to seeing the toppling of laws that are providing a legal license for people to murder unborn children, and as we are now seeing in the light of day, letting children who are already born die of dehydration and starvation in a shoebox in a closet.

01:22:15

So if you could, tell us about why you think incrementalism and the more pragmatic approach to this issue is harmful.

01:22:26

Well, it does go back to the issue of what this is. This is murder, and so once you see it through that lens, then incrementalism is preposterous.

01:22:42

No one would advocate during World War II that we slowly phase out the

01:22:47

Holocaust. Let's regulate this thing. We need to put some regulations, make it more difficult for the concentration camps to operate, and that's how we'll win this battle.

01:22:59

It's murder, and it should end right away. So just from that moral presupposition in mind,

01:23:08

I don't think you can operate any other way. And I understand the pragmatic reasoning, but part of the thing that's happened over the last 46 years with incrementalism is that they've essentially created sort of a cottage industry of abortion, and what

01:23:25

I mean by that is they've been able to reduce the number of surgical abortions.

01:23:31

But much like the taxi cab industry, my friend Marcus Pittman kind of clued me in on this, the taxi cab industry is highly regulated, and so then

01:23:41

Uber and Lyft get started, and taxi cab company owners complain because people aren't taking the taxi anymore.

01:23:49

Well, that's not true. They're just taking Uber and Lyft. And so, in the same way, that's what's happened in the pro -life world.

01:23:56

We've regulated surgical abortion, whether you're talking about attempts at pain -capable acts or you're talking about heartbeat bills, these different things.

01:24:06

Well, in the meantime, the morning -after pill and other chemical, you know, do -it -yourself -at -home abortions, those sales, you can't even track.

01:24:17

The statistics on them are, you know, they're very high. They've created, you know, sort of the

01:24:23

Uber and Lyft of the abortion industry, and by regulation, slow incremental regulation, there's really no proof that there's been a decrease.

01:24:34

You know, with the chemical abortions, yes, surgical has decreased, but, you know, maybe

01:24:42

Planned Parenthood's numbers are down by, like, 20 ,000 from last year, and we all, at the

01:24:48

March for Life, they'll rejoice over that and say, we're winning. Well, they don't talk about the abortifacients. Yeah, one thing that disturbed me,

01:24:56

I recently saw a guest on Fox News who was being interviewed on the cold -blooded, calm, cool, and collected description of death by neglect that was provided on camera by Governor Northam of Virginia.

01:25:20

This was being discussed with a woman whose name I can't remember right now, but it's not important right now, an

01:25:27

African -American woman who was saying to her interviewer, oh,

01:25:33

I just want to make it clear, I am pro -choice, but late -term abortion, now this is where we got to draw the line, this is where it really gets disgusting, sinister, this is clearly murder, and the interviewer, you know, was very gracious and almost seemingly agreeing with the guest that, well, we can have coffee table discussions about abortion with our friends, family, and loved ones, that's no real emergency or horror story, but when we have the babies who are born being put in a shoebox and put in a closet to die, now that's where it's really a horror show.

01:26:24

What kind of damage is being done by that kind of discourse, where we have pro -abortionists who are having friendly chats with Christians or with conservatives about how abortion's okay, but just not late -term?

01:26:43

Well, I think what we're doing is we're just moving the bar. You know, you say, okay, well, it's third trimester, or you say it's going to be the heartbeat, or it's going to be pain capability at 20 weeks, right?

01:26:57

So it's, all of it's a move away from life at conception, which is what we,

01:27:03

I mean, as far as, as long as I can remember, that's always been the statement of the pro -life movement.

01:27:11

Well, you're, what you're doing is you're reinventing when life begins, and what they'll do is they'll think they get a victory if they can get any one of these measures passed in these friendly chats, and, you know, get people to vote in that direction, but at the end of the day, babies are still being murdered, and lots of them, you know, human life, and we're just not nearly as outraged about that as we ought to be.

01:27:44

And one more thing before I go on to a listener question. When interviewing my friend,

01:27:53

Pastor Jeff Durbin of Apologia Church, who is obviously one of the key individuals who launched endabortionnow .com,

01:28:05

he is not only a theonomist and a reconstructionist, but he's also politically a libertarian, which to many seems like an odd combination of things, but I know that there are quite a number of reconstructionists and theonomists who are libertarian politically.

01:28:22

That would be right -leaning and pro -life libertarians, not the kind of libertarians that we have seen running for political office who believe in the murder of unborn children as a legal right and all those kinds of things.

01:28:35

But there are many among the Christian pro -life libertarians who believe strongly in states' rights, and therefore they defer the issue of whether the murder of unborn children should be made legal or illegal to the states.

01:28:59

And there are pro -life people who are saying that is just another kind of pragmatism, and that should be avoided as well.

01:29:07

That's another kind of incrementalism, because it should be a federal crime across the board.

01:29:12

It shouldn't be leapt up the states to say, well, we think this is okay, so if you want to have an abortion, you can move here or you can just visit here and have your abortion.

01:29:22

So how do you respond to that kind of reaction to the states' rights issue?

01:29:29

My response to that is just go ask any pro -life leader you care to name what the court case is that's going to throw out

01:29:37

Roe. Ask him what that court case is going to look like. I've asked that question of many pro -life leaders, and I've not yet once been given a straight answer.

01:29:52

So they don't, after 46 years and lots and lots of money being collected for these folks, they don't have a plan.

01:30:01

And not only do they not have a plan, they don't have an idea of what that court case will look like.

01:30:08

I tend to lean in the direction of the libertarian thing. Politically, I'm kind of a mess.

01:30:18

I'm very conservative, but I do believe that states have the rights to do that. In fact, here in New York, I believe the issue now at hand is what rights the counties have and what rights the cities have to declare themselves sanctuary cities for the unborn.

01:30:36

So what I'm getting at is, I think the answer is that I agree that it ought to be done away with on a federal level.

01:30:46

But when you ask every Supreme Court justice that gets examined before they're approved, what do you think about Roe?

01:30:53

What do they say? They always say this is settled law. And unless they're lying under oath,

01:30:59

I believe them. I believe they really believe that. That's all we have to go on.

01:31:05

And so far, that's been the case. So if we're going to try to oppose it at all politically, we have to look at it on a local level.

01:31:15

States are great ways to do it if you're in a conservative state. But here in New York State, the best way to do it is to address it on the county level, on the city level.

01:31:24

In fact, on February 11th, I'll be addressing the Batavia City Council that is considering becoming a sanctuary city for the unborn, which is kind of a breaking development over the last week.

01:31:39

But they're considering doing that. And we're going to go to our last station break.

01:31:48

It's going to be a lot more brief than the last one. And I will get to those who are patiently waiting.

01:31:54

Well, at least I hope you're waiting patiently to have their questions asked and answered. I will get to you as soon as possible.

01:32:00

I am sorry for the delay there. But if you have any other questions, if anybody else has any questions, you'd like to join those already in line, do so now because we're rapidly running out of time.

01:32:13

It's chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com. Please give us your city and state and country of residence.

01:32:21

If you live outside the USA and only remain anonymous, if your question involves a personal and private matter, don't go away.

01:32:27

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That's lynbrookbaptist .org. Chris Sorensen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here.

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I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years. His name is Dan Buttafuoco.

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Dan also has a master's degree in theology. Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states.

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He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy and currently his firm has over 100 cases that have settled for $1 million or more and in approximately 10 different states.

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1 -800 -669 -4878. Or email me for Dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. My name is

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Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries.

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I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

01:37:46

I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

01:37:51

It's called New Covenant Church, NYC. They are a Reformed Baptist church that meets in Midtown Manhattan.

01:37:58

You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc .nyc.

01:38:06

They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

01:38:12

If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching, in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit

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New Covenant Church, NYC. Again, their information can be found at www .ncc

01:38:29

.nyc. Have a great day. Hi, I'm Stephan Lindblad, assistant professor of systematic theology at IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas.

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I accepted this call to teach at the seminary because I'm firmly convinced that the people of God in the churches of our

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Lord Jesus Christ need to be firmly grounded in the truth of Holy Scripture. I'm excited to be teaching such subjects as the nature of theology and the doctrine of Scripture, and even the doctrine of the person and work of Jesus Christ.

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Our churches and our people need to be well grounded in these truths. Indeed, future ministers of the gospel need to understand these truths in order to proclaim them to all of God's people.

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If you want to learn more about our program, visit us online at irbsseminary .org.

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01:43:05

We are now back with our guest today, John Speed, and more of our discussion.

01:43:11

This is the final segment of our discussion on a Christian response to the new boldness of baby killers.

01:43:17

And if you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:43:23

Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania asks, I believe

01:43:28

Sean Hannity said that basically we should not be unrealistic and think that Roe vs.

01:43:36

Wade is going to be toppled and taken off the books, and therefore we should live with the notion that abortion will always be legal.

01:43:44

But is that really the proper way a Christian who has confidence in the power of God should be approaching this issue?

01:43:52

Well, we at the same time have to be realistic and understand what's going on there.

01:43:59

I believe that Roe is probably not going to be overturned.

01:44:05

It could be. There's been attempts to try. Hey, you're a post -millennialist.

01:44:10

What are you talking about? Well, right, yeah. Death will end, right?

01:44:16

So, whether or not your eschatology is, you can agree on that, right? Jesus Christ conquered death and he will win.

01:44:23

But when we're talking about the realities of Roe and where we are right now,

01:44:29

I think the better way of thinking about how we can overturn Roe is at a local level.

01:44:35

And yeah, I think it could be, if you want to challenge, you can challenge it that way from the local level on up.

01:44:42

But when it comes to, we need to also understand that these Democrats, like we've just seen here in New York and all the states following suit with New York's lead, they probably, the

01:44:52

Democrats probably already have a legislation written for the states.

01:45:01

Democrats in various states already have it written. That's part of what happened in New York. They claimed that they wanted to codify

01:45:07

Roe so that if it is overturned, it'll still be legal in New York state.

01:45:13

That was part of at least what they said their motivation was. You can bet that in these other states, and I would include even pro -life states, that there are people that already have that legislation written.

01:45:25

And if it is thrown out, they're going to introduce it the next day. I mean, so, you know, we need to do something on the state and local levels and stop just believing this pipe dream that everything happens on a federal level.

01:45:40

It's just not true. By the way, Ted from Tuscaloosa, Alabama has chimed in again and he says, what happened to my second question?

01:45:48

Ted, I don't know if you fell asleep or if you left the room or whatever happened.

01:45:54

We did address your second question. Wait a minute, maybe we didn't. Oh no, that was the question on...

01:46:01

Oh yeah, that's right. I asked it and then I forgot to bring it up again. Yeah, I wasn't going to remind you either.

01:46:10

Well, if you could, sorry Ted, I spoke to you soon. Well, tell us about that organization and right now

01:46:18

I can't remember the name of it. What's the name of the organization that he is speaking of? He's speaking of Abolish Human Abortion.

01:46:25

That's right, that's right. And I think his question was, what did I refresh my memory?

01:46:31

How do you disagree with their strategy, their ideology, and their agenda, etc., etc.? Some of their tactics, basically.

01:46:37

A couple of reasons. First of all, it's largely based on 19th century American abolition, much of which is problematic because of the fact that it came from a lot of it.

01:46:50

Now, not all of it, and they'll be quick to say this, but a lot of it came from people who do not have, did not have a high view of the gospel or the word of God.

01:47:03

It was mainly pragmatic and so they're trying to revisit those principles.

01:47:10

I prefer just to look at it from a scriptural viewpoint alone and not try to lay a template over it.

01:47:17

There's that. The other thing is they have a project that they call the Church Repent Project and I've done a video on that.

01:47:23

If you search my name and type in Abolish Human Abortion, that video will come up.

01:47:28

And the Church Repent Project basically advocates people that are frustrated with a lack of activity on the part of local churches to go through a process of addressing those local churches with the issue of abortion.

01:47:43

And if they don't, after a series of approaches, if they do not do what they think they should do, then they will show up with basically what amounts to a picket.

01:47:55

They wouldn't call it picketing or protesting. They would call it maybe agitating, to use the abolitionist term.

01:48:07

But they would go out there with signs and really give the false impression in some cases, in many cases, that the church that they're protesting is actually pro -choice.

01:48:18

Right. Yeah, in fact, they even showed up in a small number, at least I think it was small, at the

01:48:24

G3 Conference two years ago, I think it was. Right. Yeah, they've done it at, I think they've also done it at the

01:48:33

Shepherds Conference and some other good churches that not only preach the gospel, but in one case in Texas, a guy that I used to go with people from his church to the abortion clinics to administer, and they were really aggressively outside of this individual's church in Plano, Texas.

01:48:56

So it's really, I think it's counterproductive. I mean, a lot of the things they do,

01:49:02

I want to be clear here, a lot of the things they do are good. They've got good ideas on legislation for the state and local level.

01:49:10

They've got great, I kind of like what they do with the high schools when they go out in front of the high schools handing out their literature.

01:49:18

I think that's helpful and good. A lot of what they do is great, but that Church Repent Project, I think is calculated to fail.

01:49:27

Not only because it's something biblical, which I lay out in that video, but also just from the standpoint that what we did with Babies Are Murdered here, that ended up, you know,

01:49:38

Jeff Durbin saw that video, he showed it to his church, and that essentially, Jeff told me, is what the impetus for End Abortion Now.

01:49:47

And now there are over 300 churches, they've been signing up two or three churches a day since I hung up my sign on my bookstore.

01:49:57

And hanging up that sign has done more to get churches mobilized on this thing than Church Repent could ever hope to do, and has done.

01:50:08

It's just a failed strategy. Now let me ask you a question. I mean, Jeff Durbin, a main portion of his life, and the life of Apologia Church, is to be out there in the front lines, in front of abortion mills, evangelizing the women and sometimes the biological fathers of these unborn children, so that they will hopefully repent and reconsider murdering their children.

01:50:41

What would the church repent aspect of abolish human abortion, what would they have against someone like Jeff, who has spent so much of his time and energy doing this?

01:50:56

Really, I don't think anything other than, you know, what they would have with me, is that we just don't agree with them.

01:51:15

They would say that we should do more like they do with the

01:51:20

Church Repent Project, basically. We should go out to the churches and do all that. You know,

01:51:26

I saw a screenshot recently of somebody approaching

01:51:34

R .C. Sproul's former church there. St. Andrews. So apparently somebody from AHA reached out to St.

01:51:44

Andrews and was trying to call them out for a lack of involvement.

01:51:49

Well, John Burroughs is a member of St. Andrews. R .C. Sproul used to go with him and his family, and people from that church go with them out to the clinics, and they adopt babies that are rescued at the clinics.

01:52:06

You can go to that church and see babies, you know, children running around who were rescued at the clinics. You're going to go there and threaten them?

01:52:15

I mean, it's just pathetic. It's beyond ludicrous at this point, and it's part of what happens when you have a bad ecclesiology.

01:52:23

And it also involves, from what you're saying, very often bearing false witness against your neighbor, and in this case, even your brothers and sisters in Christ, because you're making assumptions about an entire congregation that may be completely false.

01:52:40

Right, right, completely false. And I've mentioned two cases of that now, and if you watch the video,

01:52:46

I issued that, right, I think around the time we were filming Babies Are Murdered Here, and I said, this is where they're going to end up.

01:52:52

They didn't, at the beginning, they said, well, no, that's not going to happen. We wouldn't do that. We wouldn't go to a good church and do that where they're doing stuff.

01:52:59

No. But I said in the video, look, if you don't have proper ecclesiology, and you just got a bunch of people running around out there who are following an ideology, but they don't have any guidance in their lives, that's exactly what's going to happen.

01:53:16

And that's what's happened. Essentially, they're making me look like a prophet. I'm not, you know, but it's just common sense.

01:53:24

And that's what's happened. We have Christopher in Canton, Georgia, who says, how can we minister to someone that has been raped to not have an abortion?

01:53:39

Well, we can reason with them and say, when do you execute a child for the crime of the father? Right. Believe it or not, that line,

01:53:47

I don't know if you're aware of this, that line was in the movie Rob Roy, Liam Neeson playing that historic figure from Scotland, Rob Roy.

01:53:58

I can't remember if it was the 17th or 18th century that Rob Roy lived, but his wife in the film was raped and then became pregnant.

01:54:10

And when she confessed this to her husband, Rob Roy, she said that she wanted to go out into the river and root it out with a stick.

01:54:18

And Rob Roy replied, why punish the child for the sins or the crimes of the father or something very much like that.

01:54:26

But anyway, I was shocked that a Hollywood movie included that. Yeah. And that's just the thing.

01:54:33

And the other thing I like to say to people is, look, you had a horrific experience if that's the case, but think about what you're doing.

01:54:42

You're denying the love and the joy of that baby in just a pragmatic way in your life.

01:54:49

I mean, we could talk about the murder aspect and all that, but and I've got a two -year -old at home and her birth was unexpected and has been such a source of joy for us.

01:55:01

I just can't imagine people saying, yeah, I was hurt and I'm terribly, terribly affected by this. I think the thing to do is to go out and kill the baby.

01:55:10

It just defies all logic. Any parent knows it's foolishness.

01:55:17

And the second part of Christopher's question, how do we minister to an unbeliever that doesn't have biblical convictions about abortion?

01:55:27

We believe what God says about the unbeliever and not what the unbeliever says about his belief or lack of it.

01:55:35

You know, much like what Sytenberg and Kate, good friend of mine. Yes, good friend of mine, too. In fact, I interviewed him at the last

01:55:41

G3 conference. Yeah. You know, you just remind them that in what Ray Comfort would say as well, you know, the law of God is written on their hearts.

01:55:50

They know what's wrong to commit murder. You know, whether they believe it or not, we have to believe what

01:55:58

God's word says about them and just trust that. And Christopher wants to know what resources and literature you can recommend about this issue.

01:56:09

And abortionnow .com is loaded with resources. Jeff Durbin's ministry, with apology, has a lot of great videos on this.

01:56:20

Of course, the 180 movie that Ray Comfort did. And you know, I really would recommend my book,

01:56:26

Evangelism in the New Testament. I think this is really one of the key issues. One of the reasons why we don't go out to the clinics is because we just generally don't care about the lost like we should.

01:56:39

And Evangelism in the New Testament deals with that. You can get that at 1milliontracks .com. The best edition is available there, the revised edition at 1milliontracks .com.

01:56:49

And that has been helpful for a lot of people, you know, just to get equipped and understand that it's okay for you to go out and share the gospel with people, even people that you don't know.

01:57:01

Well, in about three minutes or less, if you could just summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today.

01:57:09

Well, what I want etched in their minds is the reality that the life in the womb, whether it's at conception or third trimester, it's equally murder across the board.

01:57:20

And the way that we address this matters, and we need to address it biblically.

01:57:26

We have a lot of pressure being exerted from people in the pro -life movement who are not committed to the

01:57:32

Word of God, and they're not committed to the gospel. And I think we need to turn a deaf ear to that, and we need to hold on to what

01:57:40

God says. You know, His Word is powerful. You know, I've often said, you know, you don't add any oomph to a nuclear weapon by strapping a

01:57:51

BB gun on the tip of it. So, you know,

01:57:57

I think what a lot of what's going on is everybody's trying to help God out a little bit by strapping a BB gun on the nuclear bomb.

01:58:02

We need to just let it rip. And so that's what I think we need to do here.

01:58:09

Yeah, and of course there is also the same softened approach that many evangelicals have taken against homosexuality, where they will even refer to people as gay

01:58:20

Christians and think that they're completely fine as long as they don't act out on their desires physically.

01:58:28

There's no biblical support for this kind of thing. Exactly, yeah, same thing. Well, I want to make sure that our listeners have all of the contact information that you care to provide for them, so please repeat all of the websites and any email addresses or anything else that you would like our listeners to know about.

01:58:46

Okay, the endabortionnow .com is important.

01:58:52

You can see babies are murdered here at babysaremurderedhere .com. If you want to contact me, the email is jspeed1971 at gmail .com.

01:59:05

It might take a little time to respond to that because I'm swamped right now, but I will respond.

01:59:12

And what else? Like I said, onemilliontracks .com for the evangelism in the

01:59:17

New Testament book. Fantastic. Well, I want to thank you so much, John, for being my guest today.

01:59:22

I look forward to your return to the program. I want to thank everybody who listened, especially those who took the time to write in questions.

01:59:28

And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives, and this includes women who have had abortions, please remember this.

01:59:36

Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner. Amen. And we look forward to hearing from you and your questions next time on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.