Matt Slick Live: July 3, 2024

CARM

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:00

The following program is recorded content created by The Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live!

00:07

Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at karm .org.

00:14

When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live! For answers, take in your calls and respond to your questions at 877 -207 -2276.

00:24

Here's Matt Slick. Hi everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick. You're listening to Matt Slick Live!

00:30

Hey, if you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877 -207 -2276.

00:39

Easy to do, and we have nobody waiting right now, so we will not be on the air, or I will not be on the air, live,

00:46

Friday, excuse me, tomorrow, and Friday, Thursday, Friday, taking the rest of the week off. So if you want to call, now is the time, hopefully we'll have some good discussions.

00:55

And I know a lot of you out there take breaks on these things called holidays. I've heard of the concept, and so I've looked it up, and I may have to write a whole article on the concept of resting and vacation, it's a weird concept people have, where they actually sit around and do nothing, especially after they retire.

01:15

So I'm not used to that concept, and I'll undoubtedly be working tomorrow and Friday.

01:23

I just do, because otherwise, sit around, do what? Watch TV. Now a lot of people like to watch sports games, and I'm not knocking you if you like doing that, okay, good for you, sports games are great.

01:35

But for me, oh man, I just can't think of too many more things that are boring.

01:43

But my wife, she grew up with four brothers, and she's used to having the sports games on all the time, she said when she grew up, and then she married me, and she goes, you don't watch any sports?

01:53

I go, nope. So she had to kind of go through withdrawals a little bit, you know, so she has some fond memories of that, which is good for her, you know, like okay, that's good.

02:07

So anyway, you know, worthless info. Hey look, if you want to give me a call, like I said, 877 -207 -2276, you can also email me at info at karm .org,

02:20

and just put in the subject line, radio comment, radio question, and so sometimes, you know, on Fridays, I'll do hate mail, and wacko mail, and stuff like that, and do

02:32

Q &A in the emails, so we don't have, you know, because this week is whacked, because it's a holiday weekend, and our accounts go down, everything goes down, because that's just how it works, that's fine.

02:44

So the calls aren't as many either, but maybe you never know what'll happen, you never know. That reminds me,

02:50

I was working out at the gym today, and I was listening to the Mariolatrists.

02:57

Oh man, you know, how's, Mary's the mother, no, no, he goes, Mary's the mother, no, oh man, messed up again,

03:05

Mary's the spouse of the Holy Spirit. I'm like, oh man, what, did he get married?

03:11

What, she has two husbands now, the Holy Spirit and Joseph? I mean, how does this work?

03:18

I'm gonna do some research on it, you know, it's like, it's just, it's so dumb.

03:24

I'm sorry, but it is. You know, he's the spouse of the Holy Spirit, the mother of God, hears millions of prayers simultaneously spoken and thought all over the world, and can answer them.

03:35

I mean, just, who is this Mary, it's not the Mary of the Scriptures. So I had fun listening to that.

03:40

I always do, you know, most people, I got issues, most people, when they want to relax, they turn on a sports game, me, hey, can

03:49

I listen to heresy? My wife just stares at me like I'm a moron, something's wrong with me.

03:57

And she, I'm very good at distinguishing between the different levels of disbelief combined with levels of what she thinks

04:07

I'm a moron at different times, you know, because, you know, we've talked,

04:13

I said, hey, how do you describe your husband when you go to these girl meetings? You know, what's your husband like?

04:18

She just kind of stares, well, he, well, still,

04:27

I get a kick out of it. Well, did you tell him I like to listen to heretics? She goes, no,

04:32

I don't say that. Because they might not want to be my friends if I'm married to someone like you.

04:39

So I get a kick out of all of this stuff, you know, because some people think I got a screw loose.

04:45

I got probably a couple of gaskets that are blown too, but that's okay. I don't mind.

04:51

It's a lot of fun. It's so, but you know what? I like it. I like listening to heresy.

04:56

Me, I am so put together differently. And I like science fiction. So aliens and heresy are my two, that's the go -to places for having a good time.

05:08

So how many people do you know when they want to have a good time, it's, it's aliens, movies, and heresies.

05:15

Probably nobody. So I was thinking, you know, I was ever single and dating, you know, and she was questioning me.

05:24

He said, what are your strengths? Well, I chased people going into churches, stand out in front of them and hold up signs and you know, witnessed anybody

05:37

I can, anytime, those are strengths. Was this something I said, where are you going?

05:43

You know? So at any rate, that's what it is. I'm having fun. All right. All right.

05:49

All right. Let's get on the calls. We have three open lines or two open lines, actually, 877 -207 -2276.

05:58

Let's get to Eli from Wisconsin. Eli, welcome. You are on the air.

06:04

Hey Matt, this is actually Eli from North Carolina. I happen to be in Wisconsin, so it's

06:11

Eli Ayala, just in case you don't remember. Your voice is different on the radio.

06:17

My voice is different. Oh man. Okay. Yeah. So now it's me. It's been a while since I called the show because I usually just give you a buzz on your cell.

06:24

Hey man. I was just thinking of you about calling you today about doing a little bit of video work together.

06:30

So maybe we'll talk. Yeah. Hey, well, let's definitely do that. I would love to do that. I have a quick question.

06:37

So I was listening to an attempted refutation of Calvinism, much specifically Lend of Atonement by Sam Shmoop, and he used the story of the

06:48

Last Supper where Jesus says, this cup is the blood I pour out, right? The new covenant.

06:54

And he says that he pours this out for you all, and Judas was present, which entails that Judas was part of that, that he died for Judas, but of course

07:05

Judas rejects Christ and so on and so forth. So how would you respond to the idea that Jesus, the cup poured out is the covenant

07:12

I make with you, he's talking to his disciples, Judas is present, and so that would entail that Judas is included because he's talking specifically to those that are with him at the

07:23

Last Supper. Well, let's just say that Sam, the stitches in his garments are coming loose, okay, and his bearings need to be re -greased.

07:34

So he's gone off a deep end in a lot of areas. But, so I would ask, well, what exact verse is he talking to, of talking about?

07:43

I always like to know what the exact verse is, do you know which one he said? I don't remember the specific one, but I know for a fact that it was a reference to the

07:53

Last Supper. So when Jesus says, this cup is the blood of the new covenant that I pour out for you all or something along those lines, and Judas is there, and so it would be weird to say that he's not referring to Judas when he's clearly referring to his disciples and Judas is at the table there and present.

08:11

Well, let's see, he said after the supper, this is in, let me go over here, let me do this.

08:18

I want to check it out. So I'm going to just see if what he's saying is true, okay, so the new covenant, go to Matthew and do my search by Bible program, the same way he took the cup after saying, after they eat and saying, this is the cup is poured out for you, is the new covenant.

08:35

So he's saying that that's the case poured out for you, is the new covenant in my blood and behold, the one betraying me is with me.

08:44

Okay. So he's saying that Jesus, then the cup, the blood was shed for, for Judas.

08:49

Well, I would say, well, the covenantally speaking, this is the issue.

08:57

A covenant is a pact or agreement between two or more parties. And Judas was obviously under the covenantal direction of God and within the

09:05

Abrahamic covenant and the basic a Judaistic covenant that God had instituted with Israel.

09:11

So when Jesus instituted the supper and the covenant work, he was just doing a covenant thing.

09:17

It doesn't mean that all people in the covenant are saved because it says in John six that he knew those who were, you know, faulty or were unbelievers from the beginning talking about Judas was included in that.

09:31

So I would just say it's a covenant aspect he's talking about. It doesn't necessitate that Jesus bore the sins of the elect,

09:37

I mean, excuse me, of the elect of Judas, particularly when you go to first Samuel three, 14, it says where God says,

09:43

I, I, I've sworn to the house of Eli that the iniquities of Eli's house shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever.

09:53

So if he wants to say that this, that Luke and first Corinthians necessitate that the he bored the sin of, of Judas, that he has to find a verse where it says he bore the sin when it said is the blood of the new covenant.

10:11

It doesn't mean that he actually physically bore the sin of Judas because people covenant mentally can follow what

10:20

God has, but not have their sins atoned for, uh, in the ultimate sense.

10:26

That's certainly possible. Okay. Okay. So, but when he talks about being pouring out the blood of the new covenant, isn't he referring to the atonement to the death that he's about to suffer soon after?

10:39

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the thing about the covenant is, um, he says a new covenant, a new covenant

10:46

I pour I make with you. And he says this new covenant when I've done research on what the new covenant is.

10:54

It's really interesting because if you go to Hebrews and I still have to finish my study on this, so the new covenant and you go to Hebrews eight and it says, this is where I get, this is where I'm not so sure that what

11:15

I've been told about the new covenant is accurate because it says, behold, the days are coming, says the

11:21

Lord, when I will affect a new covenant with the house of Israel, with the house of Judah, not like the covenant which

11:27

I made with their fathers. And he says, for this is the covenant I'll make with the house of Israel, but my laws in their hearts.

11:33

So he's talking about a new covenant. Now the question I have here is the new covenant designated for Israel because when

11:42

Jesus instituted the new covenant with his disciples, it was under the law and had to be a type of fulfillment of the new covenant of the

11:50

Jeremiah 31. So this is what I'm trying to research. So when we go to first Corinthians 11 and it talks about the blood, okay, and he says this cup is the new covenant in my blood, do this as often as you drink it in remembrance of me.

12:09

I don't have the answers yet to this. I have to think through it. Yeah. Sorry for throwing a monkey wrench in there.

12:16

I was just thinking, I was listening to a critique and I was like, oh,

12:22

I know what I appreciate about the question that he had brought up. It's that it's not from a common passage that people who reject limited atonement often bring up.

12:32

It's kind of like, oh, okay. He's going here. That's interesting. Um, and so I wanted to see, you know, what your thoughts were on that because it seems to me that if he's specifically talking about the blood that's going to be poured out, you know, contextually,

12:46

I mean, he's about to be crucified shortly after. So it seems as though he's talking specifically about establishing the covenant through his blood that involves the atonement.

12:54

And he says it's being poured out for you now, logically, I suppose, and I'm thinking out loud here, Matt, logically, you can say you in the plural, but that doesn't necessarily mean that when he says that he's specifically entailing

13:08

Judas, since we're told in the text that he's the son of perdition. So it doesn't logically entail, although contextually, it seems as though that is somewhat of a good,

13:19

I'm going to say a data point in favor of what he's saying, but not an absolute proof against limited atonement, if that makes sense.

13:26

Right. Well, the issue here is going to raise is that new covenant is prophesied in the Old Testament. And what exactly is the new covenant and the parameters of the new covenant?

13:34

Because people can be entered into a covenant, but it doesn't mean they're saved. However, it says he'll write the laws on your hearts that implies are saved.

13:42

So if that's a new covenant with them, does that mean Judas had his laws of God written on his heart, which were deemed?

13:48

And the answer is no. It becomes problematic. Hold on. We've got a break. Okay. Hey, folks, be right back after these messages.

13:53

Please stay tuned. And I'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276.

14:12

Here's Matt Slick. All right. Welcome back to the show. Let's get back on the air with Eli.

14:19

How are you doing, man? I'm doing good. So the thing

14:28

I would want to know is what are the boundaries, restrictions, and requirements of the new covenant?

14:37

That's one of the things that I'd need to know to see, because this is one of the issues I've been thinking about studying.

14:43

I haven't maybe this column motivate me to do a study. The term new covenant occurs 17 times in the

14:49

Bible. And so what I'd like to do is go through and see what parameters, what are the boundaries of the covenant requirements?

15:00

Now, what do you mean by boundaries? Because I'm trying to put my head in the shoes of some of the users of this argument.

15:08

So I understand that within covenant, you have people who are associated with the covenant visibly.

15:15

Visibly, but of course, internally, there are people who have not been given a heart of flesh.

15:21

They still have a heart of stone, right? So we have people who are circumcised in Israel, but that doesn't mean they're saved.

15:27

But in the context of the Last Supper, it seems that it's specifically, it's what

15:33

Christ is doing, not so much focusing on how we enter it, but that Christ is establishing it in his blood for you.

15:42

The you is plural. So that would at least, that would minimally entail more than one disciple, and then of course, all those who would then be placed in the covenant.

15:51

So I think logically, I don't think his interpretation, Sam's interpretation entails that includes

15:56

Judas, because we've been constantly given the qualifier that Judas is the son of perdition. So you could safely assume that while he says this is being poured out for you, we could in our mind, so to speak, exclude

16:07

Judas because we kind of know the, you know, what's up with Judas. But just linguistically and contextually, it seems as though, yeah, it would include

16:16

Judas because he's there. And he says you in the plural, and so Judas would not have been there thinking he would not have been included in there because he's present.

16:24

You know what I mean? Yes. And there's different senses in which the word you could be understood. There's you as a representation, you as a specific limited group.

16:35

The reason I want to talk about or study the new covenant aspect is the boundaries. For example, a covenant in marriage is till death do you part.

16:42

You know, you're to be faithful one to another, and the covenant can be broken. So there are different kinds of covenants.

16:48

Some are unilateral and some are not. Some are monolithic. So in the issue of the new covenant, I want to know if it's like the propitiatory work, which was, which the, well,

17:01

I'll put it this way. When the high priest would go in on Yom Kippur once a year, and he would fulfill the covenant requirements that God had to Israel.

17:11

He'd go in and behind the veil, and he sprinkled the blood on the mercy seat, and the sins of the nation of Israel were propitiated.

17:21

And so this did not mean, though, that every individual had all their sins removed.

17:29

And so because there are many there who were unbelievers, you know, in the ultimate sense, even though they may have been practicing

17:38

Jews, they rejected God, and there were ungodly people within that. But the nation of Israel was propitiated. So this is what

17:44

I'm talking about, is what's going on in the nature of that covenant. Because if we can find out the boundaries of it, we'll know, like the propitiatory sacrifice that occurred on Yom Kippur, did it necessitate that such individuals included in the covenant were saved?

17:59

No, it did not. How do we know this is the same kind of a thing in the covenant? That's what I'm saying. Right. Okay, that's a great point.

18:06

I didn't think of it that way. So the high priest would atone for all of Israel, but that doesn't mean all of Israel was saved and literally forgiven.

18:14

There's an individual aspect there that needs to be fulfilled on the part of an individual Israelite, but of course working in tandem with God's grace and what it's essentially regenerating.

18:24

Okay. That's actually very helpful. Plus, there are unilateral covenants where God binds himself by his word that cannot be broken when he passes himself through the torn animals.

18:36

And then there's the type of covenant that God gives with Israel. If you remain, then you'll be fine.

18:43

If you don't, you're going to have these things happen. So there are conditional covenants. And then there's covenants that terminate.

18:49

So I'm not saying let's put all this into this verse. It's just that when you say the new covenant, it automatically opens up the door of what the nature of that new covenant is.

18:59

And if we can find out the boundaries of it, the expectations of it, then we could make a better assessment.

19:05

For example, if we're to say that the new covenant, which seems to include forgiveness of sin, spiritual transformation, et cetera, then does it mean then that the disciples obtained forgiveness of sins by the supper?

19:23

Well, of course not. So then in what sense is the covenant for them all?

19:29

It's for them all if all of them participate in the boundaries, but it's not if they don't.

19:37

You see, right? And it's important to understand that if they participate in the boundaries,

19:43

I imagine Sam would say, yes, Christ died for Judas, but it was dependent upon Judas to participate in the boundaries via faith.

19:52

Now, even if that's true, that doesn't speak to where faith comes from. In other words, it doesn't vitiate against the

19:59

Reformed perspective that, yes, you can't be saved without faith, but if you do have faith, that is also a gift of God's grace, and you get into the whole issue of whether it is resistible or irresistible, which is a different but connected discussion.

20:12

And that passage alone, considering the nuance of the nature of atonement, doesn't do it.

20:17

And I think just as you're speaking, it's making me think of the dangers of proof texting. Because when you use a verse like this, there's so much packed into the notion of new covenant or atonement and all those other related issues.

20:30

So that's very helpful. Yes. And furthermore, he says in John 6, 54 and 55, he says, whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life.

20:44

Okay. So if we're to take this and work with it and we're to, we could take this different directions and we're to say, okay, so whoever eats his, drinks his blood and eats his flesh has eternal life.

20:57

Did Jesus eat his blood and drink his, take the body and blood? Okay. Did he do that?

21:03

Well, we would assume yes. Does that mean he had eternal life? Of course not. The only way to have eternal life is if your sins are taken care of.

21:10

But they weren't taken care of because we know from John 6, 64, Jesus knew from the beginning those who, who did not believe in him and who would betray him.

21:20

So this is not, I need to use those qualifiers to help us govern how we interpret what's being said in individual instances where it talks about the application of the covenant because constantly we're told that Jude, like he knew who was with him, but he knew

21:33

Judas was, you know, the son of perdition or that gives. So keeping that in mind, we have to interpret these passages in light of the divine commentary on the nature of Judas's status.

21:43

That's right. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. And furthermore, one of the things I ask people is if Jesus paid for their people's sins, this is just another issue of logic and scripture because in Colossians 2, 14, he canceled out the certificate of debt, the chirographon, which

22:01

I believe and most everybody else I've ever seen and heard talk to believe that's the sin debt that was dealt with, that was canceled at the cross.

22:09

Okay. Well, it says Jesus equated sin with legal debt. You know, my, our father in heaven, forgive us our debts, forgive us our sins in Matthew 12, four and Luke 11, uh, 12, six, 11, four, respectively.

22:20

Okay. So then the question is, did Jesus cancel the sin debt for Judas? And if he did, then why would you just go to hell?

22:30

Because when there is no law, there is no sin. There's no sin is not imputed. So if it's can't, uh, sin that is canceled in this sense, that how can you go to hell?

22:41

It's a whole nother problem that this, this attack brings. Okay. It had to be solved.

22:46

Anyway. Okay. All right. Thanks a lot, man. I appreciate it. All right, buddy. Talk to you later, man.

22:52

God bless. All right. God bless brother. God bless. Hey folks. We'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned.

22:58

We'll get to Bob from Louisiana. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276.

23:14

Here's Matt Slick. Hey everybody. Welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, it is easy.

23:19

All I have to do is dial 877 -207 -2276.

23:26

Let's get to Bob. Whoops. Wrong thing. I keep doing that. Bob from Louisiana.

23:32

Bob, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt. How are you today? Uh huh.

23:37

It's you. I'm doing okay. How are you doing? I'm fine. You remember talking to me

23:45

Monday? Yeah, I remember talking to you and saying that you couldn't argue your way out of a wet paper bag if it was greased and it was at a 45 degree angle downhill with a neon light pointing the way and a chain pulling you out with a compass saying go that way.

24:01

Yeah, I remember that. Yes, pretty close to what you said. But I was looking at John, you know, 14 .6.

24:14

Yeah. And it says no one comes to the Father but through me. Yeah.

24:21

You familiar with that? Oh, yes. Very familiar. Uh huh. But the gospel

24:26

I preach, I preach it to get you to the Father so you can come to the

24:32

Father through me. Through you personally? Yeah, by the gospel.

24:39

The gospel being the power of God unto salvation to them that believe. Yeah. Since I'm a preacher, then you can come to the

24:49

Father through me. No, you're not a preacher of the true God or the true gospel. No, you're a false convert. You're a false teacher. I've told you this before.

24:56

Because you deny the Trinity and you deny that Jesus Christ is God in flesh. So you're not a true Christian.

25:01

I'm not being offensive. I'm just telling you. No, Jesus was anointed by God.

25:08

By God the Father. And the Holy Spirit, actually, yeah. By the Holy Spirit, actually, yeah. Well, the father of the baby that Mary gave birth to was the

25:18

Holy Spirit, according to Luke. I'm sure of that.

25:25

What? Yeah, but if Jesus, and you hear

25:32

Jesus say the words, I am the way, the truth, and the life, is that not the

25:37

Father himself speaking? No, because Jesus is not the

25:43

Father. But he said the Father in me does the works.

25:49

See, you just caught yourself. You said Jesus is the Father, but then you said Jesus and the Father. No. I said the

25:56

Father is in him speaking, but it's not

26:02

Jesus. Those are not Jesus's words. What I'm saying is, I am the way, the truth, and the life are words that God says himself.

26:14

So did Jesus actually say the words? I don't have any clue. I wasn't there. Well, it says, you do not believe that I am in the

26:23

Father, the Father is in me. The words that I say to you. So Jesus said he was speaking. He spoke words.

26:29

So do you believe Jesus spoke words? Yeah, but the Father could have been speaking through him.

26:36

I mean, he said it might be the Father. Okay, hold on, hold on. So Jesus and the

26:41

Father, according to you, are different entities, different beings, right?

26:48

Yeah, Jesus is the Son of God. Okay, so Jesus is not

26:53

God to you. So now when Jesus speaks, he is speaking. He's actually doing it.

26:59

When he sweats, he's the one sweating. It's not God the Father sweating. When he would go to the bathroom, it was

27:08

Jesus going to the bathroom, not God the Father. When Jesus is speaking, he is speaking, not

27:14

God the Father. It could be the Father speaking through him. Well, can you show me a verse where it's actually the

27:21

Father's words in him? Well, he's told in Luke, don't worry about what you say or what you're going to speak because your

27:31

Father will speak through you at that hour what he won't say it or something like that.

27:37

Well, if you don't have a specific verse, then we can't examine it because very often what people do is they just kind of quote something that's not really accurate.

27:49

They just make it up as they go. I can look it up.

27:55

I'm sure it's in Luke chapter 10 or verse 11 somewhere.

28:01

Okay, Luke 10. Don't worry about it. Okay. And in Luke 10, 21, he says,

28:11

Jesus rejoiced greatly in the Holy Spirit and said, I praise you, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise.

28:18

Yes, Father, for this is well -pleasing in your sight. And then all things went handed over to me by my

28:26

Father, and no one knows the Father except the

28:31

Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills reveal him. Okay. So I'm trying to find a verse that says what you said.

28:41

I'm not seeing it. I can find it. I got the

28:46

Bible here. Look, you've heard me talk so many times with people in chat rooms, and you know

28:53

I always say to them, what verse is that? I'm always doing that. You should know better. You should know.

28:58

You're right. You're right. Okay. But I wasn't really planning to go here.

29:06

I was going to talk about what Jesus, the Father speaking through him, that the

29:13

Father is the way, the truth, and the life. No, Jesus says I'm the way, the truth, and the life.

29:18

Nobody comes to the Father but through him. So then he says he's the way.

29:25

Yeah, but I preach the gospel. That's the purpose of preaching the gospel.

29:32

Now, Bob, you're not a true Christian. You're a false convert. If you died right now, you'd be eternally damned, but I don't want you to die right now.

29:39

I don't want you to be damned. You need to come to Christ. Let me run something by you, okay? Let's see if you can answer this according to your theology, okay?

29:47

It's really simple. It's John 14, 23. Jesus answered.

29:52

He says if anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my

29:59

Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our abode with him.

30:06

So the Father and Jesus are going to come to the person and live in them, okay?

30:13

That's what it says, right? Live in them or to be with them, which is?

30:20

To make their abode with them, okay? Well, with them.

30:25

I mean, Jesus could come and his Father could come also, right? No, it says make your abode with him.

30:34

He's going to live with them, and it means to be in dwelling because 2

30:40

Corinthians 6, 16 says, I dwell in them and walk among them. Ephesians 3, 17 says,

30:47

Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. So Jesus is talking about living in a person.

30:55

So here's my question. How does Jesus, according to you who's not God, how does he live literally in millions of people, literally, simultaneously with God the

31:05

Father? How does he do that if he's not God? The Spirit that raised

31:12

Jesus from the dead is the Holy Spirit. And if I have the

31:18

Holy Spirit, I have the Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead in me, so therefore that case would be true.

31:28

So you didn't answer the question. How is Jesus himself living in millions of people simultaneously,

31:34

Jesus? How's he doing that if he's not God? It's the Spirit that raised

31:40

Jesus from the dead, the Holy Spirit. Jesus prophesied that he would raise himself from the dead.

31:46

That's John 2, 19 -21. So the Father raised

31:51

Jesus, Jesus raised himself, and the Holy Spirit raised him. That's Trinitarian theology right there. Now I'm asking you, how does

31:58

Jesus himself... No, I don't agree with that. Well, that's what it says. No, I don't agree with Trinitarian theology.

32:05

I know, I know, because you don't know who the true God is. You don't know who the true

32:10

God is. The Father of Jesus has to be the true God, doesn't he? No, Jesus claims to be

32:16

God, and he's called God. Okay? He said his

32:21

Father was greater than me. Yeah, John 14, 28. Yes, because he was made under the law,

32:27

Galatians 4, 4, and for a little while lower than the angels, Hebrews 2, 6. He did not say that the

32:33

Father is of a different nature. But in a greater position. That's all that is. Okay?

32:39

Yeah, and Jesus is in a high priest position now, right? So, you say that Jesus is the

32:47

Son of God, right? The term Son of God to you means he's not God, right? Yeah, it means he's not

32:54

God. Okay, so if the term Son of God means he's not God, then what does the term

33:01

Son of Man mean? Born of a woman, to me, is what it means.

33:07

All right. Well, let's look at John 5, 18. This is what John the Apostle says. For this reason, therefore, the

33:13

Jews were seeking to kill him. Because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was calling

33:19

God his own Father, making himself equal with God. John the

33:25

Apostle gives us the commentary. He's calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

33:32

So, do you agree with John that Jesus was calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God?

33:39

He was calling God his own Father, but I don't think he was making himself equal with God. So, you deny what

33:45

John the Apostle said in John 5, 18. We've got a break, so hold on. We'll get back to you and take a look at John 5, 18 and see what it says because you have to agree with it or you're making

33:56

God a liar. We'll be right back, folks, after these messages. Please stay tuned.

34:09

It's Matt Slick Live! Taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276.

34:15

Here's Matt Slick. All right, buddy, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Bob.

34:21

Are you still there? Yes, sir. And I found that scripture in Luke.

34:27

It's in chapter 12, verses 11 and 12. It says, when they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers and the authorities, do not worry about what you're to speak.

34:40

The Holy Spirit will teach you. Yep, uh -huh. Okay. I think that's the case.

34:46

If Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life, I believe it was the

34:52

Holy Spirit had told him or taught him what to say. So he was really talking about himself.

34:59

But anyway, what he says there is that the Holy Spirit will teach them.

35:05

So don't change it, okay, to make it say something it doesn't say. But John 5, 18, so according to John the

35:13

Apostle, Jesus was calling God his own Father, making himself equal to God. Do you agree with John the

35:19

Apostle? I agree it says that, but I don't think seeing God as my

35:25

Father makes me equal with God. Jesus was calling

35:30

God his own Father, making himself equal to God. Well, I call God my own Father. Then what's the difference here?

35:38

I wasn't born in Bethlehem. I wasn't the Savior of the world, maybe. Well, the context is very simple, okay?

35:47

He is healing people. Pick up your pallet and walk in John 5, 12.

35:52

And Jesus found him in the temple and said, Behold, you have become well. Do not sin anymore. The Jews were persecuting

35:59

Jesus because of this. He answered, My Father is working until now, and I myself am working for this reason that the

36:05

Jews were seeking to kill him. Well, one was because he broke the

36:10

Sabbath, but not really. He said, You can't do any work. You can't do any work on the

36:15

Sabbath. He said, Well, I am working. He's doing the will of the Father. Now, John the Apostle then makes this commentary because he says he was calling

36:24

God his own Father, making himself equal to God. That's the commentary that John the

36:31

Apostle is giving us. So, do you believe

36:36

John the Apostle was wrong at this point? I'm not sure a scribe or somebody didn't add that on,

36:43

Matt. So, in other words, it speaks to the contrary of what you believe, and now all of a sudden it's a scribal error or something like that.

36:53

So, what it means is you get what it actually says and you deny it. That's what you do.

37:04

That's what John the Apostle says, John 5, 18. Well, John could have been wrong.

37:11

Oh, okay. So, John the Apostle could be wrong, but you're right, and John the

37:16

Apostle was with him and knew him and was inspired by God to write this, and yet somehow he's wrong and you are in Louisiana.

37:25

You're the one who's right. I could be, yeah. Okay. You see, when someone says something like that, there's no arguing, there's no reasoning anymore because it doesn't matter what

37:39

I present to you. Now all you have to do is say your understanding of God's Word is better than the

37:45

Apostle who wrote it. I mean, okay. But now what do we do with your incredible arrogance and your pride?

37:52

See, God hides himself in the crowd, and here what you're doing is judging God's Word based on your personal feelings and expectations, and so he's going to hide himself to you, and he is going to let you have the judgment upon yourself and the hardening of your mind.

38:07

That's what you're doing. And go to Romans 1, it talks about this. The judgment of God is upon you because you're denying the truth of who

38:14

God is. And this is proof, because when I read this to you and show it to you and tell you where to find this, where the commentary of John the

38:22

Apostle himself is that Jesus was calling God his own Father, making himself equal to God. Right there is what it says.

38:29

You just deny it. This means you are abiding in your sin and your rebellion against God.

38:38

That's your opinion, right? Well, you deny that it's true. You deny it's truth.

38:44

John the Apostle wrote this. He's calling God his own Father, making himself equal to God. So you disagree with John the

38:49

Apostle, who clearly says that Jesus is calling God his own Father, making himself equal to God. You deny it.

38:56

So, who's wrong? God's Word, or you? Their understanding is what's wrong, because Jesus would never claim to be

39:07

God, man. So, yes, he did. In John 8 .24, unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins.

39:13

John 8 .58, before Abraham was, I am. And Paul the Apostle called him God. John called him

39:18

God. Hebrews, right? Author of Hebrews calls him God. Titus, Paul, right?

39:25

Titus calls him God. It's all kinds of stuff. But here, John the Apostle, who knew Jesus personally, knew the culture, said he was calling

39:34

God his own Father, making himself equal with God. So you deny that.

39:41

This is why you're under judgment. You don't believe God's Word. That's essentially calling God a liar.

39:48

I'm not, I would not, why would I be calling God a liar? I would never call God a liar.

39:53

Oh, is John the Apostle a liar? I don't know. I didn't know

39:58

John. But Jesus isn't calling himself equal to God. Yes, well,

40:04

John the Apostle says he was. Because he was calling God his own Father, making himself equal to God.

40:10

So John the Apostle is saying, yeah, he is calling himself equal to God. Because that's what the phrase means. That's how

40:15

John sees it. So John's when John sees it. Okay, well, who was it that told

40:22

Moses to go to Pharaoh? We're talking about this, the issue of Jesus, okay?

40:29

And typically what people will do who are stuck like you, they'll do just what you did, go someplace else in the scripture, find another pattern in scripture, then take it out of the context of someplace else and put it here, and then say, see, that's why it doesn't mean what it says right here.

40:43

That's what you're going to do. And I just hold your feet to the fire instead of that. But you just said something about I am was before Abraham, didn't you?

40:54

Yes, before Abraham was, I am, and they want to kill him for that. John in 58. Why do they want to kill him?

41:01

But Jesus knew that I am had talked to Moses, see? Exactly.

41:07

He says before Abraham was, I am. Why do they want to kill him for saying that? I have no idea.

41:15

I don't think they should have wanted to. Did they tell why they want to kill him? Two chapters later.

41:23

Can they tell? I can read it to you. Two chapters later. Yes. Because in John 8, 58 and 59, before Abraham was,

41:32

I am. They picked up stone to throw at him, but Jesus hit himself. And went out of the temple.

41:37

But Jesus knew that. Interesting. He said this while he was in the temple of God. He says,

41:44

I am. Makes it all the more powerful. There's no more mentioning of stoning of any kind until John 10, 32.

41:56

Because he says, I am the father of one. The Jews picked up stones again to stone him.

42:02

Okay. Now Jesus is going to ask him. I showed many good works from the Father. For which of them are you stoning me?

42:08

Jesus, the Jews answered, for a good work we don't stone you, but for blasphemy. Because you being a man, make yourself out to be

42:15

God. That would have been blasphemy if he had done that though, man. Well, where did he say whatever it was he said to make him think that?

42:26

What did he say that made him think that? I don't know.

42:32

He cast the devil out of the guy. If you don't know, if you don't know, then you don't understand the text.

42:40

You don't understand what's going on. This is the question I ask people. When they go to John 8, 58 and 59, they want to kill him for saying, before Abraham was,

42:48

I am. John 10, 30, I and the Father are one. They want to kill him again. I ask people who deny that he's

42:54

God, I say, why did they want to kill him? They tell you why. Because he's claiming to be God. And I ask you and others, where was it?

43:02

Show me the exact verse where they were thinking he was claiming to be

43:08

God. And if you say you don't know, then you don't understand what the text is saying. You don't even understand it.

43:13

And if you don't understand it, you don't have the right to interpret it and say he's not God. You have to be able to show us.

43:18

I can tell you. I can tell you where they are. John 10, 30, John 8, 58. I can tell you why.

43:25

He just said, before Abraham was, I am. He wasn't talking about himself. Yes, he says, before Abraham was,

43:33

I am. It's present active indicative, first person singular in the Greek, ego, a me. This is a translation out of the

43:40

Septuagint when God says, I am that I am, in Exodus 3, 14 and 15. So the

43:46

Septuagint, the Greek equivalent. So Jesus is using the same tense and the same form to designate the very name of God because Yahweh, Jehovah, means

43:57

I am. That's what it means. Jesus had to claim to be a man because he talked about his mother and his brothers.

44:07

He couldn't be claiming to be God. We know that he's a man. But he also said,

44:12

I will be with you always, even to the end of the earth, Matthew 28, 20. He says he will indwell us, John 14, 23.

44:19

He's called God. No, he himself will dwell. That's right, he himself will.

44:26

John 5, 18. John the Apostle says he was calling God his own father, making himself equal to God.

44:33

And you just flat out deny it. I'd show you where they want to kill him and why they want to kill him because he's claiming to be

44:39

God. So let me ask you a question. Did the Jews believe that Jesus was actually

44:46

God? Did these Jews, these people who killed him, did they actually believe he was

44:51

God in flesh? I hope not. The answer is no. So you agree with them, don't you?

44:57

I hope not. You agree with them. They want to kill him because he's claiming to be

45:03

God. They deny that he was God. And so you agree with the Jews who killed, who murdered

45:08

Jesus. He's not God. See how bad it is?

45:14

You are in such trouble. Look, I don't hate you. I'm not trying to mock you. I'm just telling you, if you die believing what you do, you will suffer eternal damnation because you do not have the true

45:25

God, you do not have the true Christ, and because of it, you don't have the true gospel. You're lost.

45:31

I'm not being mean. I'm not name -calling. I'm informing you. I just prove to you from Scripture where he's called

45:37

God. By the apostle John, all you do is say, well, John was wrong, calling

45:43

God his own father, making himself equal to God. Well, he wasn't, you say. So you judge God's word.

45:49

You go to it when it suits you. When you talk about the Holy Spirit will speak through them or give them the remembrance in Matthew 12, or Luke 12, you have no problem going there because it suits you.

46:02

But when it doesn't suit you, then all of a sudden God's word is wrong. This is why you're under judgment.

46:10

The scribes have scrambled it a little bit,

46:16

Matt. There's no textual variant there. Jesus can't claim to be

46:23

God being born of a woman, though, Matt. That's what you say. But see, what you're doing is you're making a philosophical assumption and you're submitting

46:31

God's word to it. That's what you're doing. When the Bible clearly tells us that he was calling

46:38

God his own father, making himself equal to God. We also know that the phrase in the

46:44

Greek, and I've got to say this quickly because we've got 45 seconds, the phrase in the

46:49

Hebrew, call upon the name of Yahweh, is a prayer to Yahweh, God Almighty.

46:55

That phrase is translated in the Greek Septuagint by the Jews into the phrase in Greek, call upon the name of the

47:02

Lord. That phrase, the whole phrase, is applied to Jesus in 1

47:07

Corinthians 1 -2. Everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord, Jesus. The phrase, call upon the name of the

47:13

Lord, is a reference to God Almighty, and it's applied to Christ. You go to Hebrews 1 -8 where it says,

47:19

God his father speaking, he says, of the son, he says, thy throne, O God, is forever and ever. He's clearly called

47:25

God everywhere, and you continue to deny it. And Jesus says, unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins.

47:33

This is why you're in your judgment. Got to go, there's the music. All right.

47:38

All right, thank you, Matt. I'll catch you later. Hope you have a good weekend. Okay. There you go.

47:44

Hope you all have a great weekend. Hope that was informative. And may the Lord bless you. Pray for Bob.

47:49

He certainly needs to be awakened from his stupor of damnation. Have a great weekend. Talk to you