In what ways is Progressive Christianity hijacking Jesus? with Jason Jimenez - Podcast Episode 172

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Welcome to the Got Questions podcast. Occasionally we like to have a guest on, either with a new book that's coming out, a new ministry activity that's going on, something we'd like our audience to be aware of.

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Joining me today is Jason Jimenez. He's the author of Hijacking Jesus and the president and founder of Standing Strong Ministries.

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So Jason, welcome to the Got Questions podcast. Thank you for having me. So Jason, tell us, our audience, for those who may not be familiar with you, a little bit about you and your background, and what is

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Standing Strong Ministries? Well, really, my background, I come from Tucson, Arizona, originally, and that's where I started my ministry as a young junior high director, and it was shortly after I lost my mom.

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She was suddenly taken in a car accident, and as anyone could imagine, when something like that just really hits you, it caused me to, instead of run away from God, it caused me to run to God, and it was there that I started to have a lot more questions, a lot more questions surrounding what next, you know, suffering.

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Never blamed God for the tragedy in my family's life, but leaned on Him to ask

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Him, what are you going to do through this tragedy? And then that's when

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I started to pursue deeper questions, essentially, kind of like the platform of GotQuestions.

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You know, I had a lot of them. I wish I had your ministry. When I was young, struggling at the time, but the internet, you know, wasn't really in existence at all.

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And it was through there I started to find my passion to study God's Word, the validity, credibility of Scripture, started to investigate the resurrection, you know, had faith in Jesus Christ as a young man, but really started to grow.

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And then now through the years, I've been blessed to be a pastor working with children, students, families, different churches, moved out here to Charlotte, North Carolina, went to seminary under Dr.

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Norman Geisler at the time. And that's when I started to add to my background from philosophy to theology to apologetics.

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And then the last 11 years has been traveling the country, helping Christians to stand strong in their faith, as the

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Scripture says, because a lot of us have a defeated attitude. A lot of us are not emboldened. We feel very intimidated about issues of today.

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So my passion is really to try to take a lot of complicated issues and to not just simplify them, but to make them make better sense to the family dynamic and also to come alongside the church and help do three things, essentially, embolden

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Christians to stand strong no matter the cost, equip them to know what they believe and why they believe it so they can defend in the culture and ultimately engage the culture for Christ.

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So that's what we've been doing now. And we've been blessed to do it the last 25 years. So that's excellent.

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It fits very well. And with questions, we're not exclusively in apologetics or worldview -related ministry, but obviously a ton of questions we receive have an apologetics component, have a defense of the faith or help people to understand where and how their thinking is off in relation to how they're approaching

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God's Word, how they're viewing the culture around them, how they're viewing what's going on in the world. Your ministry is very helpful.

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I can wholeheartedly, highly recommend it. So it's a privilege to have you on today.

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I know you've written several books, and when we publish this episode, we'll have links to your books and Standing Strong Ministries in the show notes, in the description on YouTube and at podcast .gotquestions

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.org. But your new book that's coming out, Hijacking Jesus, what led you to write this book in particular?

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Yeah, I mean, that's actually a simple question, but it's a really difficult one to answer because to be honest, it was like,

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Shea, I was thinking, I mean, seeing internally, even just in my own existence as a father of four

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Gen Zers, and seeing a lot of the conversations that my kids were having with their friends who are quote -unquote

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Christian, and then you add this level of wokeness, and to what degree is that unbiblical, right?

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You know, not just social justice issues, and then you start seeing a altered or a fabricated

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Jesus that starts becoming centered within the preaching of particular pastors. And then you're looking at it and you're thinking, and this is even pre -COVID, you're looking at a lot of these people who are teaching things that run contrary to what we would say as a historic

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Orthodox Christian or a biblical Christian, I refer to us as in the book, to distinguish us from progressive

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Christians, seeing how many people were taking issue with Jesus being the

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Son of God, the second person of the Trinity, saying, Oh, we need to follow the example of Jesus, right?

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He was a beautiful person who had this self -manifestation of this God consciousness, whatever that is, whether they take a new age leaning or more of an inclusive woke leaning towards that interpretation, or again, some of your listeners probably are aware of the pan -antheism, you know,

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God is in the world as the world is in God, and the more I started to investigate this in looking at quote -unquote credible conservative churches,

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I'm seeing this buy into a progressive movement and really hijacking

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Jesus in a church that many people believe if they go on their website and say, Oh, well, their statement of faith is

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Orthodox, it's biblically sound, but they're really not preaching it from the pulpit, and that started to disturb me.

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And when I look at Scripture, I see that most of the New Testament is dealing with false doctrine, and sadly, as you and I know in the day we're living with, a lot of people are biblically illiterate, and again, no fault to their own sometimes, right, but there's just this massive population of ignorance to what the

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Bible teaches and who Jesus Christ really is. I felt I needed to do something, not just for my kids' generation, but also as a pastor and an apologist, saying we have to defend the person and the two natures of who

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Jesus Christ is, fully God and fully man, because progressive Christianity, of course, then I started to read a bunch of books on this for the last few years, and nothing's new under the sun, it's just like, you know, kind of a new way of introducing these issues, new faces, but seeing how prevalent it's becoming in these conservative denominations where liberalism at the time, right, they were going mainline, so they were starting their own churches where progressive

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Christianity, they're trying to take over the existing congregations and churches that have, however long they've been in existence, have been teaching that the

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Trinity is, right, is an essential doctrine, and that Jesus Christ is the second person, is only through Him, through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ that one can be saved, and they put their faith and trust in that, and seeing how people are hijacking that very message.

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So that's why I wanted to write this book, to help people who are now being caught up in this elusiveness of progressive

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Christianity to understand the false teaching behind it, but then also,

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Shay, recognizing the people that are confused or have family members and are having these debates, because in all my travels that's what we're now talking about, and I wanted to give them material of how to properly, historically, biblically, theologically, and spiritually respond to certain things where they're hijacking

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Jesus. So you described progressive Christianity as elusive, and I think that's an excellent way of putting it, but so if I'm going to try to nail you down here, give me a definition for what is progressive

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Christianity. Yeah, so this is another thing that is very difficult, and I've talked to a lot of people who've been investigating progressive

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Christianity for quite some time. Obviously, bear in mind when you're going to give a definition, a lot of it's going to be in line with liberal theology, liberal beliefs, to some extent, but they really have other essentials that they hold on to, but as we do kind of give a working definition, we have to understand that when you're dealing with postmodern thought that is grounded within progressivism and Christianity, you can't nail them absolutely, if you will.

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They don't like these particular beliefs, in air quotes. They try to stay away from them.

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So I want the audience to understand that because I don't want to speak for progressive

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Christians, but in giving a working definition, as I do, I call a new theology on the block is in the chapter when

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I talk about what progressive Christianity really is. But before I do that, I want to say this.

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I have an image in the book. I want people to visualize if they can, if they're watching or listening, and what

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I first show is this is biblical Christianity. So let's understand this first. This will help.

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We have six doctrines, if you will, centered on Jesus, the person of who Jesus is. We believe absolutely, without compromise, that Jesus Christ is fully

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God and fully man. We believe, number two, that Jesus Christ was virgin born, God incarnate, was virgin born through the

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Holy Spirit. Number three, a doctrine according to the teachings of Jesus we see in Scripture that makes the foundation of what historic

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Orthodox Christianity is. We believe that he performed miracles that not only were fulfilled with prophecy, but also confirming that he was the

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Son of God. Number four, we believe in the atonement of Jesus, that he died on the cross for our sins, according to the

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Scriptures, 1 Corinthians 15, 3. Number five, we believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and ultimately his second return.

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Now progressive Christianity, not all progressive Christians, but progressive Christianity denies, they reject all six of those.

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I think that's important, Shea, for us to understand that first and foremost so that when we then start defining, okay, well, if they deny and reject those, it isn't

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Christianity. So we can't be fooled with this term progressive to make it seem like they have something new, because that's what they try to, that was the other thing why

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I wrote this book. The nuances, the way they play the game, how they fool and deceive people, which again,

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Satan is the father of lies. He's the great deceiver. And they're pretending like we've removed all the lacquer, right?

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All of the veneer, you know, with lacquer that we've removed from Jesus, the rigidity of all these doctrines and literalism has damaged us, right?

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And all this orthodoxy stuff, you know, we need to be about orthopraxy. So when progressive Christianity starts defining themselves, they say that truth is not relative.

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The Bible is to be taken metaphorical. We don't hold to a God who is imminent or transcendent, but a

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God who is within. That's where that panentheism comes in. Roger Wosley has a book,

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Kissing Fish, and he probably has the best description where most progressive

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Christians hold to at least 80 to 100 % of what he says in his book about what progressive Christianity really is.

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And that's what he teaches. He teaches that truth is relative, that Jesus was inclusive, that same -sex marriage is not a sin, that they hold to LGBT movements as they believe

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Jesus did. People who hold to the Bible to be literal are actually presenting

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Jesus in a falsehood. So we're actually, you know, they would say that Paul was the original hijacker.

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Jesus never intended for us to worship him as God. So that, in a sense, is progressive

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Christianity. They really want to make sure they tie in the social justice as the kingdom of God, i .e.

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as the gospel. And so that's how they will refer to themselves.

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And if you go to progressivechristianity .org, they have more or less what they would refer to as like an eight -fold path, tenets that they subscribe to for the majority to kind of give guidance to somebody who would say they're a progressive

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Christian. But then at the end of the day, in his book, The Shift, by Colby Martin, he's saying how he left conservativism to progressivism.

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He says, I'm not trying to give you a roadmap because everyone's journey is their own.

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And so, again, at the heart of progressive Christianity, though they deny those fundamental teachings about Jesus, right, and then they affirm inclusivity,

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LGBT, truth is relative, the Bible is to be taken metaphorical, they're anti -supernaturalists, they will say all of our experiences of God, self -consciousness or self -manifestation is a collective that we're all merging to the oneness.

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And that's a huge belief system that's advanced through social justice that progressive Christianity teaches.

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Kind of how I introduced that question, trying to define progressive Christianity is kind of like trying to nail

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Jell -O to the wall, and that there's no so much freedom within the umbrella of progressive

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Christianity that you can perfectly understand what one progressive Christian believes, and the next one will,

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I don't believe any of that stuff, I believe this. So it's not something you can universally define.

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Like if you say someone, this person is a Calvinist, well, okay, then you definitely know some things that person believes.

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Not so with this. In my experience, the type of questions we receive, the whole concept of, like, well, my

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Jesus, in air quotes, would never say something like that or never do something, I would never want something like that.

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That's sort of how I defined it when describing to people, because it's very subjective.

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It is, you basically get to determine which teachings of Jesus or the Bible that you accept. You become

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Lord over the Bible rather than God's Word being something you submit yourself to.

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It's essentially making yourself God, because you're the one who gets to determine what is true for you and to varying degrees to others, even though they would deny that.

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And yet they're very quick to deny certain things that people say, while also saying that all truth is relative. So it's a big, subjective, postmodern mess that when you really try to dig into it, it becomes confusing and distracting and can definitely lead people astray.

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And once you're there, you don't even really know, how did I even get on this road? And so that's what makes it so hard to nail down.

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And that's, and to your point, this is devastating to a lot of families, because I can't tell you how many times now, even when

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I was writing the book, I would teach on hijacking Jesus as I was writing it to get people's responses.

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And that's the whole thing, is you can't nail down some of these things. That's why I start with what they reject first, to distinguish between what we as biblical

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Christians believe that holds to the historical nature, right, and evolution of Christianity without compromise from the beginning.

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And I think that's so important, Shea, because part of the blindness or the ignorance that takes place or lack of defense is people's inability, not just to the elusiveness of progressive

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Christianity, but also their inability to articulate certain doctrines that is

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Christianity. And you and I know from guys like Dr. Michael Green, Alistair McGrath, when he studied their theology, they would say, when we articulate the historic

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Christian faith, it's the person of Jesus Christ. So for me, because there's so much confusion on other issues,

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I said, no, if you reject those six doctrines, the divinity of Jesus, His virgin birth,

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His miracles, you think about this, and His death, resurrection, and second coming, that's not

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Christianity. And so often when you have these conversations, because like you said, it's trying to nail jelly on the wall, people give them a pass and say, well, they feel more free to this inclusive

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Jesus, this all -loving Jesus. And that's where a lot of the debate is headed.

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And so you have a lot of these people who have surfaced in the church for quite some time and people have not really addressed it. And that's why, even though you can't, like you said, 100 % say this is what progressive

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Christians believe, and I respect that, I'm not trying to speak for them or speak down to them, but I am defending what the

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Bible teaches. And that's where we need to start. And then through that, like you said, through this relativistic, post -modernistic, panentheistic understanding through progressive

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Christianity, through that lens, you will see that this is a false religion. Yes, it's not

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Christianity at all. It's the only thing about Christ that's in it is essentially, most would say,

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I love the teachings of Christ. I love the Sermon on the Mount. I love the

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Gospels, once you get past the birth narrative and before you get to the death and resurrection, everything in between, that's the

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Jesus I know and love. But they're rejecting His person, who

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He says He is, and only embracing His teachings, which is not the definition of Christianity for sure.

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It's not historical biblical Christianity. It doesn't save by any stretch of the definition, doesn't fit the rest of the

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New Testament. And in the parts of your book that probably impacted me the most that I've had the opportunity to read and really think through, it's their whole view of the

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Bible that impacts it. But it's obviously the only place we—there's—supernatural revelation is only available in inerrant form in God's Word.

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And once you deny the inerrancy of Scripture or the authority of Scripture or the inspiration of Scripture, everything else becomes subjective.

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You can choose to accept parts of the Old Testament, parts of the New. You get to pick and choose what you believe, and that's what they're doing with Jesus and only accepting

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His Word, sort of like a red -letter Bible. It's like, I only believe in the words that Jesus said, minus these, could go a whole

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Jesus seminar. I don't really believe Jesus even said this and this. I only think He said this. You become the judge of Scripture.

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You're the one who determines which books belong in the Bible, which words belong in the Bible, which ones you can submit to.

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And your understanding can be completely different from the next guy. And that's what's most frustrating in conversations

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I've had with progressive Christians is there's no objective standard by which to have a conversation with them.

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If they're making themselves the judge of Scripture, it's like, I don't even know where to go.

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So with that said, in your experience, someone is seeking to point a progressive

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Christian towards the Lord Jesus Christ in His deity, His death,

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His resurrection, His second coming, who He truly is, what He truly did, what He truly taught.

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What is the best way to point them towards the one true Christ? Yeah, that's a powerful question, and I really appreciate it because I do think what's happened is that people, they get into arguments, and they're really not pointing people to the real

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Jesus, if you will. One of the best things, and it comes from a previous book

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I wrote called Challenging Conversations, and trying to teach people to be an advocator of God's truth.

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Typically, sadly, what we've seen in our culture today is we have the aggressor, and that gets all the noise and all the press.

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And again, it's a small majority within the Christian faith, right? But unfortunately, that small number becomes the majority voice in the tactics and the attitude.

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Well, it's unchristian. We're to speak the truth and love, Ephesians 4 .15. And so we don't want to be the avoider.

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So when it does come up, when you have a progressive Christian who's giving pushback and denying the very divinity of Jesus and rejecting the gospel of John completely and metaphorically interpreting everything else, because they haven't answered everything,

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I want people to understand that. So when you are talking to a progressive Christian, like you said, it will vary.

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It depends on their views. Depends if their influence comes from David Gushy or if it comes from Brian Zahn, you know, somebody maybe is lighter toned in the progressive

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Christian faith versus somebody who's a lot more engaged, like Peter Eanes or Brian McLaren.

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So people got to keep that in mind. But at the heart of it, when somebody is saying, hey, Jesus to me, so for example, and this will be helpful,

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I didn't feel like it was enough to help Christians. Here's what we believe, you know, historically, biblically, theologically and spiritually about those six doctrines that we mentioned centered on Jesus, the person of Jesus.

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But I also didn't say, OK, well, if progressive Christians for the most part reject those, then who is

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Jesus to them? Well, it really is three false portrayals.

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So let's say you're talking to a progressive Christian who believes that Jesus was more of a mystic. Well, one of the biggest things you want to do in that case to point them back to the real

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Jesus is where did Jesus ever talk about this self -consciousness, this self -awareness? Where do you interpret that in Scripture?

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Right. And if they're saying, well, you know, we have that in the Gospel of Thomas, he said, well, Gospel of Thomas was clearly written after the canonical

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Gospels. And if you're going to look at a reliable source and you're going to reject the canonical Gospels, that's being inconsistent historically.

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So it's OK for people to make mention of that to show that the source that we have actually drawn is a lot more credible than looking at the

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Gospel of Thomas that contradicts the majority of what we see in the synoptic Gospels.

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So when you do that, you want to show them that the language that a mystic tries to use does not align to the actual teachings of a monotheistic

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Jew who is fulfilling prophecy. Now, the other false narrative that you will see quite often now from a progressive

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Christian is a second category. And in that second category, let's say you're talking to a progressive Christian who believes that he was a woke teacher.

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What they don't like to do is they don't like to actually look at the teachings of Jesus. They like the Sermon on the

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Mount Jesus, but they don't like the Mark 7 Jesus who's actually calling out sin that defiles the heart.

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And so that's what I actually do with these progressive Christians, because I want to—it's not just catching them in a lie.

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This is not a game. This is about someone's soul and somebody's advancing a false view or narrative of Jesus.

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And it is our responsibility and duty to love that person, speak the truth and love, but defend the

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Gospel like what we see Paul the Apostle do. So when somebody's using Jesus as a woke teacher,

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I then consistently show them actual teachings of Jesus. And then when they're picking and choosing, that's where you can start narrowing in saying, it's interesting how you pick and choose

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Jesus. And that becomes the bobblehead Jesus. And you actually are, again, you're falsely interpreting what you're seeing in Scripture, right?

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You're downplaying or downgrading certain passages, and you're uplifting in your improper hermeneutics, the eisegesis.

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So when they use the Sermon on the Mount, I say, okay, let's use Matthew 5 through 7, and let's actually go through Matthew 5 through 7 instead of just judge not least you be judged and love your enemies kind of thing, right?

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So that's a helpful thing to do is just all they have to do is stick to the actual teaching of Jesus canonically.

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And then the last one is the revolutionist. And this is the biggest false betrayal,

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I should say, of Jesus in academia. You know, he was just an insurrectionist, right? He was trying to reform

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Judaism. It failed. He was captured. He was publicly humiliated.

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It left the disciples absolutely defeated. And so they felt like they had to do something about this. Hence, they started a religion known as Christianity.

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And so those are the original hijackers, you know, people like James to Paul and the rest of the disciples.

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That's what the progressive Christians say today. You know, the Paula Fredrickson's of the world, the

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Brian McLaren's of the world, you know, people I mentioned before, Brian Zahn's. And that one, then, is if you actually look at the teachings of Jesus, you don't see

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Jesus advancing a revolution. In John 6, when they're trying to force him to become king, what does

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Jesus do? He doesn't receive the power. He runs from it, right?

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When James and John want to strike lightning and judge, induce, Jesus said no. And he says he who fights with the sword will die by the sword.

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When a man came to him and says, tell my brother to divide the portion, right? You know, my fair share.

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I want my fair share. That's socialistic. Jesus denied that. He did not accept that. And on and on we go.

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Give to Caesar what is Caesar's. Render to God what is God's. So they try to make Jesus out to be this insurrectionist, this rebel, this revolutionist, this guy with socialistic leanings.

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And that is a false betrayal. And we as Christians have enough evidence in the canonical gospels that are reliable sources that are early and abundant in their coherence, that in the cooperation of them and with eyewitnesses' accounts, that we can defend those things with great fervor.

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And that, I think, is the biggest thing, Shea, is that a lot of Christians don't know that. When they say, oh, you can't interpret that that way, it's just metaphorically speaking.

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And then that's it. It's the end of the debate. So I encourage Christians to study the actual teachings of Jesus because clearly the progressive

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Christians who have read Jesus take him out of context. And if we let them, this now becomes the interpretation now of the text.

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And so if you take all three of those false portrayals of Jesus, the mystic, the inclusive teacher, and the insurrectionist or the revolutionist, that is the majority view combined now in America.

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And so if Christians just clearly look at the teachings of Jesus and somebody saying, oh, this is what

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Jesus meant or Jesus never said that, we can challenge them with multiple attestation that that is not the case.

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So again, it just depends on the progressive Christian and what their specific view of Jesus is to help really direct them to have that discussion.

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That's well said. Pointing people towards Jesus rather than focusing on hypocrisy.

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Like what you said earlier, people's souls are at stake in this conversation. Winning an argument is not the goal.

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And winning the argument will turn people away more than it will attract people.

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And most people in apologetics love 1 Peter 3 .15, always be ready to give an answer for the reason that you hope that you have.

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But they forget the second part, to do this with gentleness and respect. That if you win a battle but lose the war, and the war is for people's souls.

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So detect that heart throughout your book. And even hearing you today, you can tell your passion is to actually reach people, not just to win arguments.

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So I commend you wholeheartedly for that. For again, this is the Got Questions podcast with Jason Jimenez, the author of Hijacking Jesus.

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Highly recommend the book for anyone who's curious about what progressive Christianity is or has a friend or loved one who's in that movement that they want to try to understand and reach.

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Excellent book. I'm highly recommended. But Jason, before we close, this last question, what is the best way for someone to learn more about you and your ministry based on what they've heard from you today?

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Well one, thank you for this opportunity. Love Got Questions. Love the ministry. I've used it for years as a pastor, apologist, as many people have.

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And my family enjoys it. So thank you for that work and what an opportunity it is to partner together to help equip

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Christians to know not just what our faith believes and to defend it at all costs in love and grace and truth, but also to help those people, like you said, who are misguided and are falling prey to progressive

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Christianity. So yeah, if people are interested to know more about what we do to come alongside the family and the church, they can go to our main website, which is

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StandStrongMinistries .org or they can look me up, Jason Hyman as apologist, and they can get all the various different books that we have put out.

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But we're excited about this book, Shea, that's coming out that is really addressing an issue that is, and again, when you think of the greatest hijacking that took place in September 11th of 2001, and again,

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I'm not equating progressive Christians as those terrorists. What I'm saying is when you have a property or a territory, and it's under a certain rule or influence, and you have a movement or an ideology that is intentionally trying to infiltrate itself, that is a hijacking, especially if it's threatening the very existence and sustainability of something.

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And so this is ruining families. And there's a lot of arguing that is going on in homes.

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And I could not stand idly by and not do anything about this. And one is I love

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Jesus. I love our Christian faith, the hope that you and I have, which is a living hope, the blessed hope that we have one day

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He will return. And we have a responsibility. And when I had so many people come and say, where's a good resource?

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Obviously, there's great resources out there. But I didn't see a resource like hijacking

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Jesus that put it in perspective of number one, how did we get here?

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How did this all start, right? And see the movement of Satan through the years.

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That is number two led to these hijackings of Jesus and denying from His divinity to His second coming.

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But then thirdly, let's look at the false portrayals of who they make Jesus out to be as though it's like the liberating one.

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And I wanted to address those things in those three areas. And so the book will be out soon and people can get the book anywhere where they get books anywhere they're sold.

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And I encourage people to do that and to share it and get the word out. So thank you for your support and helping us do just that.

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Again, the book is Hijacking Jesus. It's an excellent book. I enjoyed it.

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I highly recommend it. And I learned some things from it in the sense of understanding the movement, its origins and what they're really going for.

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What's their end game in the sense of what they're even trying to do, whether intentionally or unintentionally, is they're attempting to hijack the

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Christian faith, creating both Jesus and the faith in their own image rather than in the image of Christ.

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So Jason, thank you for joining me today. I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation. Again, we'll include links to where you can learn more about Stan Strong Ministries, Jason Jimenez, and Hijacking Jesus in the show notes, in the description on YouTube, and also at podcast .gotquestions

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.org. This has been the Got Questions podcast with Jason Jimenez, author of Hijacking Jesus.