What is Apologetics?

Well class is beginning.

Good evening everyone.

This is DS 200 introduction to apologetics.

If you have your course syllabus please take it out and we are going to go over the course syllabus as we begin the class.

If you have been in my classes before then you will notice that the course syllabus has changed somewhat.

Not a lot but there is a few small changes that I have made to the syllabus.

First thing I took it down from three pages to two pages.

That's just to make it a little easier to print and disseminate.

And I also changed some of the grading requirements and I want to go over them with you now.

But let's just start at the beginning.

Course overview and objections.

This course will introduce and compare the various methods of defending the Christian faith.

Students will learn the differences between classical, evidential, and presuppositional apologetics and how each addresses the most common questions from unbelievers.

Your required texts are you should have a Bible and you should have a copy of a apologetics a justification of Christian belief by John Frame.

Your course requirements are first attendance.

This is a major change.

I changed that.

That used to be part of the grade but it's slightly different now because I am offering this course online.

So here's the way attendance will be judged.

If you cannot be in class you can make the class up on video but you have to show me your notes that you actually sat down and watched the video.

I'm not just going to take your word for it now that I don't trust you but for academic rigor I want to see that you listened to the course and took notes.

And that's how I determine whether or not you did the work if you weren't here.

I still would encourage you though to be here as much as possible.

It's so important to be able to ask questions and interact.

If this was just me talking then just get the audio.

You know there's no reason to come and drive all the way over here if you're not going to interact.

You know so we want to interact and we want to have this this personal interaction in class.

So please please keep in mind attendance is still important for those who can't be here and do it online.

I understand there are certain people who have issues but when I was in seminary I can't imagine doing it.

People got people today go through their whole college career online.

They never they never shake the hand of a professor.

They never engage in an intercourse in class where they're going back and forth with another student over a disagreement and that I think that's missing and so much of academics today is the interaction of dealing with other opinions and other thoughts.

So the next thing is academic character.

Using someone's work without proper citation or handling or excuse me handing in another's work as your own is considered plagiarism.

This includes materials taken from books or the Internet and intentional cheating in any form compromises your grade and may jeopardize your continuation in this program.

If I look at your paper and it doesn't look like you did the work it looks like you copied it and you did not cite your sources there will be there will be an issue there and if I find out you cheated then your paper goes in the trash.

There's no call for that especially in Christian and what we're doing.

We're supposed to be believers, supposed to be above board.

It's one thing to make a mistake.

Well I didn't know how to cite it.

Okay we'll talk about that but whole sections of your paper taken from a commentary or something no citation that's a major problem.

All right and both of those don't have a grade attached to them it doesn't say anything about percentages of grades it used to but now the percentages of grades are easy.

Your grades are this way.

Your reading assignment is 25% of your grade and we're going to actually have conversations about the readings this semester so I will know whether or not you read.

The second thing is your notebook assignment that's 25% of your grade you should be taking notes beginning tonight you should have a notebook that has and here's the thing a well organized notebook is not just for the class it's for the future because you can keep that notebook for later and remember some of the things that you I still have notebooks from seminary you know 15 years ago when I was in school I still have some of my notebooks and it's useful even to today and then your research project this is if you don't do the research project you can't pass the course you don't get a certificate if you don't do the research project the research project will be assigned during the final class each student will choose and respond to one specific objection to Christianity this response should include a comparison of the different apologetic methodologies and how each one would respond to the objection you'll understand that as we go along and do not forget to include relevant biblical citations and notable historical references and responses to the objection so for instance if you are dealing with an objection to the to the deity of Christ for instance let's say you know because apologetics isn't just about dealing with atheists right it's about defending the Christian faith from all comers so you might be defending the deity of Christ against the Jehovah Witness that's still apologetics right and so not only would you be able and need to be able to cite relevant biblical citations but you should also know how history has dealt with that question how has history dealt with the question of the deity of Christ and so that would be included in your final paper the research project will be submitted in the following format a title page which includes a title numbers student name and professor name the body of the project should be well organized to be no less than three pages no more than five pages double spaced so it's really not that long I'm not asking for a book I'm really just asking to see that you have gone and researched this subject and be able to describe it succinctly and a properly cited bibliography page if you do not understand how to make a bibliography page I understand that's something that not everybody knows how to do you may ask questions and there is a wonderful resource that is available called the internet which can help you there's no reason to not cite your sources properly and I ask that you use either APA format or MLA format APA format is more is more common in universities now at least it was when I was in school that was several years ago but I don't care what format you use as long as you're consistent don't do half a APA half MLA yes I didn't know that so thank you Janice so it'll do it for you there you go excellent thank you and so so you've got everything does anybody have any questions about page the first page of the syllabus great turn your paper over to the course schedule this is an eight-week course lecture one tonight will be an introduction to apologetics and you should have read page 35 of the introduction to the textbook it really is only one section of the book and we're gonna read that section after the break tonight so we're gonna read the whole thing together it was only half there's only like a page so we're going to read that together if you didn't read it we're all going to read it tonight but by next week you should have read chapter 1 and then by the third week chapter 3 and then chapter 4 chapter 5 there won't be any readings for for week 6 and week 7 you need to read chapter 7 and 8 which means if you are a slow reader maybe use the week off to read chapter 6 and make that your extra week and then of course week week 8 you're gonna read chapter 9 now you may wonder why we're skipping chapter 2 we're actually skipping chapter 2 and chapter 6 because they were just two chapters I felt like we're wasn't really pertinent to what we're dealing with I still I encourage you to read the whole book as always but as far as what you have to read for class the chapters are there and I'm gonna mention this too they're gonna be times where I really tell you to focus on a certain part focus on because because it's a lot these chapters are heavy and so I'm gonna try to give you little helps along the way say as you're reading this chapter look for these things like for instance in chapter 1 I really want you to focus on the transcendental argument because he's going to talk about that and I may even send out an email with a three-page article that was written by dr.

frame on transcendental argumentation and if I get a chance to do that this week I want you to read that as well it's only three pages and it's big type so it's not hard to read so tonight is introduction to apologetics next week is the myth of neutrality week 3 is the noetic effect of sin week 4 is objections and objectors week 5 is the objection to God's existence week 6 it says video presentation now that may change I am working right now on the possibility of having a guest speaker for week 6 I'm not gonna tell you who it is because I'm not certain I'm gonna be able to get him but I'm praying that he'll be he'll be able to come and if he does he will give a very wonderful presentation but if he can't come then we're going to watch a video that night and we're going to discuss the video so I've got that kind of as a placeholder if I can get the guest speaker I will but if not we'll get them we'll watch a video week 7 is the objections why does why does evil exist and then finally the last week we're going to talk about going on the offensive and that's people often think of apologetics as defending the faith but you'll notice in dr.

frames book he discusses the difference between defending and going on the offensive you know storming the gates of hell as it were so we're going to talk about the difference and how we would approach apologetics in a little different way that being said I want to ask you to open your Bibles and we're going to begin with our key text for the entire course which is in 1st Peter chapter 3 I'm going to read verses 13 to 17 our focus is verse 15 but I'm going to read for the context verses 13 to 17 and I'm going to pray for our class 1st Peter chapter 3 verse 17 I'm sorry verse 13 to 17 now who is there to harm you if you are zealous for what is good but even if you should suffer for righteousness sake you will be blessed have no fear of them nor be troubled but in your hearts honor the Lord as holy always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you yet do it with gentleness and respect having a good conscience so that when you are slandered those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame for it is better to suffer for doing good if that should be God's will then for doing evil father in heaven I thank you for your word I pray even now as we begin this course that you would by your grace and in your mercy walk with all of us through this lesson and help us to understand the keys to giving a defense for the hope that is within us Lord help us to always remember that this idea of giving a defense is surrounded by remembering that you are holy and that we have a responsibility for both gentleness and reverence Lord I pray for all the students who are here in class and even for those Lord who are doing this by video pray that you would bless them pray that you would open up their minds to understand what we're learning and I pray most of all Lord that you would sanctify us by your truth knowing that your word is the truth in Jesus name we pray and for his sake I was 19 years old when the Lord saved me and it was because of an interaction with an atheist my first real interaction with an atheist that I was confronted with my own lack of belief I grew up in church I grew up in this church but it wasn't here it was in a different location but it was this church and I grew up being forced to go to church every Sunday and many of you probably have at least have experienced that some way we're didn't really want to go but you're forced to go and I would have said to anyone if they would have asked me that I was a Christian I would have put that on any form I filled out or any survey that I took I would have said that I was a Christian but when I was 19 years old I went to work for America online and while I was there I sat next to a man who was an atheist and I'll remember forever what he said to me when I was talking to him I mentioned to him that I believed in God and he said well I don't because I'm too smart to believe in all that and I'll never forget that statement he said I don't believe because I'm too smart to believe all that which in a way was saying I was stupid you know there was an inference that could be drawn from what he was saying but also it caused me to begin to wonder did I really believe the things that I said I believe and it sent me into a really difficult time of a time of I've told the story before time of depression and anxiety and worry that was I was I trusting in something that wasn't true and then I realized I wasn't really trusting in it and it come to through through several weeks of difficulty finally came to realization that I really didn't believe the things that I said I believe and so I began to look at what the claims of Christianity were and through a process of God's grace he brought me to trusting in what his word says and I remember the day I was in my truck I was driving home and I cried out to the Lord for salvation and he saved me but after that it began to be a driving force in my heart to want to be able to give an answer for why I believe what I believe and so I few years later felt the call to preach preach my first sermon felt the call to seminary went to seminary and while I was in seminary I focused my attention on the subject of apologetics and so this course is really the outworking of not really so much what's in your textbook even though we're going to use that it's really is an outworking of 21 years of being a Christian and defending what I believe and feeling like every day I'm standing on the truth of God's Word and I want to be able to stand on what's right and believe what is true and so when we talk about apologetics there's a lot of different ways you can define apologetics but the word apologetics when we talk about that word it just means in a sense to give a to give a defense for something it is the word that is used in the legal sense especially in Greek it was used in legal sense of someone who was in court and they were providing their apology their apologia their defense of their position and we use the word apology much different today we use the word apology today in the sense of saying I'm sorry and so I remember the time I told my mother I said I'm really I'm really interested in apologetics I'm interested in the study of apologetics and she said what do you mean are you saying you're sorry for being a Christian I said no that's that's not what that means even though I understand where that would why she would think that and why other people might think that but it was the idea of of defending what I believed and doing so in a way that honored God the term apologetics is a biblical term we've already read the text Genesis or excuse me first Peter 3 verse 15 it says in your hearts honor Christ as holy always being prepared to give an apologia a defense to anyone who asks for the hope that is within you and I had you read verses 13 to 17 for a reason oftentimes people hear this passage and they don't understand the context that Peter is writing in and if you've ever taken hermeneutics with me or you've taken any other course on how to study the Bible you know the most important thing about studying the Bible if you really want to know what a passage means is understanding the context of the passage and the context of the passage Peter is writing to those who are being persecuted and so when he writes about giving a defense he's literally writing to people who may have to give that defense for their very lives and oftentimes that doesn't hit us like it should because we're not in that situation at least not yet most of us at best give an apologetic to our neighbor who may tease us about being a Christian or the man next to us at work who says he's too smart to believe in all that or maybe a family member who chides us at Christmastime for believing in the baby Jesus most of us are not facing the tip of a spear or the edge of a sword for our faith but that leads us to an idea of what Peter is saying when he says in this passage that when we do this we need to first honor the Lord as holy and what the text says it says to sanctify Christ in our hearts as holy and what that really gets to the heart of is to be an apologist you have to first be a believer the whole concept of defending what you believe begins with believing what you believe to sanctify the Lord is holy and your heart means that the Lord is in your heart that you trust in him and everything that builds out of this apologetic class must build out of that that you've come here already trusting that the Lord is the Lord if you don't believe that you're already on shifting sand you understand so I must sanctify the Lord is holy believe in him trust in him in our hearts and be ready to give a defense notice it says for those who ask we're going to talk about that in a little later time but he says for those who ask for what for the hope that is within you I would ask you tonight do you have that hope and is it more than just an intellectual hope is it genuine hope in the Lord Jesus Christ that is part of apologetics to that you believe and you live a life consistent with that belief and that you do this with gentleness and reverence the word gentleness and reverence I don't like the word respect ESP says respect the word is phobo what is phobo fear so we get the word phobia means to do so with fear now what how how do we what does it mean gentleness and fear well I think it means in the simplest terms that we ought to understand that we are standing for Christ our Lord who is holy remember we said we sanctify him as holy and anytime we engage in things that are holy then we ought to do so with a certain amount of holy fear you guys remember in a dab in a bayou right Leviticus chapter 10 says they offered up a strange fire before the Lord and what happened fire came out from the temple consumed them and they were killed there before the altar their having watched the whole thing and Moses looks at their father and says for those who approach the Lord he must be considered holy the holiness of God should influence everything that we do not the least of which is our defending his truth yes sir I don't know I'm always I'm always careful just like last Sunday I preached on Noah and his tent being naked and drunk on his bed and I and there's a lot that commentators try to introduce into that story that's not in the text have to be careful not to introduce things into the text that aren't there I mean it's it's is it possible yes I think some people see Nadab and Abihu like two little boys playing with fire they were grown men priests of the Most High God and they were trying to worship God in a way that he did not command them to whether they were drunk or not is really beside the point what the main point is is that they were doing what God had not commanded which should remind us how important worship is so apologetics is giving a defense of what we believe in ancient Athens it referred to a defense made in a courtroom as part of a normal judicial procedure after the accusation the defendant was allowed to refute the charges with an apologia a defense and the accused would attempt to speak away that's what the word apologia means the root of apologia is logos word oppo away remember when we did Greek class we talked about the prepositions oppo away apologia to speak away the charges to speak and put away the accusations we see this in practice where Paul makes a defense of the faith before the Sanhedrin and so did Stephen and what happened to Stephen when he made a defense before the Sanhedrin he was stoned Paul makes a defense before Felix before Festus and before King Agrippa and so we are in a line of great apologists and down through the ages there have been men who have stood for the truth and we're in that same line some people identify themselves as apologists and we're going to talk about some of them throughout the course you guys are probably familiar with dr.

James White dr.

James White is often referred to as an apologist something to say that there is no biblical office of apologist the biblical offices are only two the biblical offices are elder and deacon and one might argue that there is the office of evangelist but that's not a biblical office that's a that's a biblical that's it that's one of the one of the jobs that is done within the church is evangelist and and just like preacher things like that but an apologist is not necessarily a biblical ministry in the technical sense rather it is something that all believers are called to do and some people just happen to have a ministry where they do it as their primary function in ministry but it's not a formal title some of my favorites as I mentioned James White Greg Bonson if you've never heard of Greg Bonson I would encourage you to look up him it's B-A-H-N-S-E-N Bonson Matt Slick is very good these are all men that you can learn from if you go back to the early church if any of you who took church history with me remember we talked about the early church apologists men like Justin Martyr and Tertullian and others they wrote apologies for the faith and oftentimes we can learn a lot about what the the early attacks against Christianity were by reading those men's writings and learning about them and so the first question of tonight tonight we're going to deal with three questions the first question is what is apologetics the second question is why do we study apologetics and the third is are there different ways to study apologetics and the first answer to the first question is what is apologetics it is defending the faith that's what we've been talking about second question why do we study apologetics I'm going to ask that as a conversation question somebody tell me why why do you study apologetics okay Mike you're that's true that's right go ahead there no that's that's right so it's it's not just to give others answers is give ourselves answers part of why we study apologetics is so we know the truth as well yes Frank okay goes with the territory being a disciple anybody else I see hands back there nails we'll let him go first mm-hmm yeah yes mr.

Jones yes you may speak is it's a good thought studying the word that's true I appreciate something that didn't get said at least I don't think it did maybe I forgot but the thing that didn't get said is the most common answer even though it's not the most common answer in this room which just means you guys are smarter than the average Bears most of the time when you ask somebody why do you study apologetics they will say to convert unbelievers but that's not what it's for that's not what it's for and I'm glad that nobody said that but that's often the thought that goes into our mind the reason why I'm doing this is because when that guy at work challenges me I want to not only do I want to give a good answer but I want to give an answer that is so good that he's going to bow the knee right then he's going to fall on his face and he's going to believe in the Lord Jesus and I'm going to lead him through the sinner's prayer and we're going to go to the we're going to go outside to the fountain and we're going to have a baptism right there at at work I mean that's I tell you what if I'm lying I'm dying I think I've met people who treat apologetics that way I want to become an apologist I want to become a better apologist so that I can take somebody from unbelief to belief they might not see it that way I get what you're saying Brian but it's more it's more an issue of this is the method to save people well quit being a Calvinist for a minute no no no no that's my fault yeah great a bunch of you something to write this down this is important no one will ever be argued into the kingdom of God no one will ever be argued into the kingdom of God and here's the reason why if a man can be argued into the kingdom he can be argued out if a good argument convinces him to believe then a equally good argument could convince him to not believe therefore apologetics is really not meant to convert the soul the Holy Spirit converts the soul we are called to give an answer but we are not called to convert the soul that is a key I'll give you a good example one of my favorite evangelists is Ray Comfort now Ray Comfort's not a Calvinist so you know but he's still one of my favorite and if you ask Ray Comfort how do you do apologetics or how do you defend the faith he says I give him the gospel and he says well what if they don't believe it I give him the guy just keep giving him the gospel well what if somebody says and I've seen him do it somebody will come up like a Muslim will come up and begin to challenge him about the historicity of the New Testament or possibly the deity of Christ or something and he'll say yes but you have lied you have stolen you've committed adultery with your eyes and your heart what are you going to do on the day of judgment with your sin you know you go right to the heart of the matter so all that stuff is important but at the end of the day what converts a man is the Holy Spirit of God and the Holy Spirit of God uses the conviction of sin to convert the heart it's very rarely that a man is argued by sheer reason into believing because again if he can be reasoned into it he can be reasoned out of it if you've ever read C.S.

Lewis this is one of the issues that a lot of people have with Lewis as Lewis argues that he really came to the faith because of his intellectual it was an intellectual thing for him he realized it was true and therefore believed and you know I have a lot of good I have a lot of good thoughts about Lewis but I do I wonder if that's really what happened or if that's just what he thinks happened you know there and and but that was you know he the idea of rationalizing yourself into Lee Strobel is a interesting character I remember meeting him he had a well I don't get in that story lately is he does not like Calvinist no no no no I that that actually even said that Lee you know the case for Christ is based on an evidentialist approach to apologetics which we're going to get to in a minute to talk about the different ways people do apologetics he was a journalist well I'm not again I'm not saying that no one has been ever been intellectually moved to Christianity what I'm saying is that if we if we depend upon arguments to save people then what we have to remember is that all it's going to take to unsave them as somebody with a better argument yes like the first passage he read but you know that whole conversion and it was years that he would go constantly back and forth with his roommate you know refuting his position and yeah I don't think that's an intellectual thing I think that's a heart thing God gives you the eyes to see and it jumps off I remember the first time the Bible jumped off the page at me I was raised in a Baptist church and I thought I had a lot of questions that I couldn't answer and so I started to get into the lens of reformed theology and all of a sudden everything just kind of went oh whoa now I see it and I don't think that came from my intellect but I believe it really came from God opening my eyes yeah and and and and and I I think Janice would agree with that I'm sure it's it's I don't want to feel like I'm cutting myself off at the knees when I say you can't argue somebody into the faith because it almost may seem like well everything you're gonna say from now on about talking to believers is unnecessary God uses truth to confront the heart and God uses these truths to confront the heart and it is important that we consider the arguments of the unbeliever so that one as somebody else I don't remember which one of you said it that we are able to be satisfied in our own hearts about that question because there are answers but also there are times when you challenge someone on something and even though that may not be what converts them that may be one of the tools one of the seeds God uses in planting the seed of of the gospel and bringing him to faith so I'm not saying apologetics doesn't have any place in evangelism it does I'm saying that you cannot strictly think that apologetics is for that purpose that's that's the point of what I'm saying what why do we study apologetics I think first and foremost because it helps us to understand better the Word of God and it helps us understand better the world that we live in and it helps us to give an answer in our own heart to the questions that we even have and to be able to give a defense for those who come to us with questions about why we have the hope that we have the main purpose of apologetics then is to demonstrate and defend the truth claims of the Christian faith and that only not only deals with believers but it deals with unbeliever not only deals with unbelievers but it deals with believers as well I'll tell you this I know some people and you may think this is a good thing I know some people who believe and they have no reason for it they believe but they don't know why they believe it they either grew up around it or whatever they don't have a reason for why they believe what they believe that may be true but should is that where we're supposed to stay yeah absolutely so so apologetics has that purpose right of helping us to understand why we believe what we believe so it's not just about others it's also about ourselves it's about justifying what we believe in our own heart well that helped me when I'm questioning my salvation when I was an addict could I be saved if I keep living this way but then I had to examine my heart do I really believe what's in here yes do I believe what God says do I believe this is true yes that's what helped me because I started off I mean everybody has the doubts about that but that's what helped me I went to church as a kid and I took it when the pastor said that Noah built an ark I believed it was true that's just because the pastor said I just in my mind it was like yeah he did it I didn't know why or how but it took years you know growing up yeah and I'm not saying childlike faith is bad but I am saying we are not called to remain children in the faith absolutely that the Bible calls us to believe us at like children but at the same time it says we should move from the milk to the meat and there should be growth brother Frank you want to say something just doing a good work I don't understand I mean it's good for the soul to learn and it's good for the soul to be able to defend what you believe but I don't okay no no yeah certainly yeah right it's like in James where it says basically this is what I don't know why I went there yeah I'm not I'm I'm sorry no you're fine don't be sorry I'm just I'm not sure I quite understand but but maybe we'll come back around at some point apologetics reminds us you may want to write this down apologetics reminds us we are not engaging in blind faith when we follow Jesus Christ but we have a reasonable and defensible faith we are not engaging in blind faith we have a reasonable and defensible faith now we're going to talk about the third question what are the different ways to do apologetics with the different schools if you will of apologetics on your notes I want you to have three main headings the first is the classical model the second is the evidential model and the third is the presuppositional model I always do that that's writing on the board is different than writing on a paper get confused okay so the different schools of thought in the area of apologetics fall into three primary subcategories and that is classical apologetics evidential apologetics and presuppositional apologetics go ahead grab it in your book um Dr.

Frame will describe all three of these but you will find that in the book we will be following more of the presuppositional model of apologetics you may have noted that as of late that has become somewhat popular in reform discussion and you may even see people who get real excited about it and one of the things that I see online is people say I got into an apologetic conversation and I presupp the guy hashtag presupp it's it's honestly I don't like it I'll tell you why most people who hashtag presupp don't understand they are quoting they're quoting Bonson and and and Jeff Durbin and all these guys but they really don't know what they're doing I've listened to the conversations I've heard debates why I presupp the guy and they talked they talked circles and didn't understand what they were doing so before you get excited about a methodology you really should understand what it's saying everything is popular for a time I get worried about the young restless and reformed that they're going to become old heretics very quickly because they're so excited about five points of calvinism but they don't know anything about the bible and I do and I worry the same thing about presuppositional apologetics people get excited they don't know they've never read Van Till they've never read Rush Dooney or Bonson or any of these other guys but they're they're presuppers so be careful bandwagoning anybody it's it's a dangerous uh thing to do because I will tell you this I think all three of them have something to say I think all three schools of apologetics have something to say I am a presuppositionalist by by the scholastic sense I would be a presuppositionalist but um if you read Dr.

Frame's book well you'll note that he he will tell you in the book that all three of these categories of apologetics ends up playing a part in our interactions with people and um we have to understand that so so what so what is what what are the simplest definitions classical apologetics is utilizing rational thought to argue for the existence of God and the truths of the bible so classical apologetics is a rational apologetic yes the laws of logic demand that something cannot be and not be at the same time in the same relationship that is called the law of non-contradiction therefore when I think about existence I think the fact that there is something now my logic dictates that something always must have been because if there was ever nothing then there would still be nothing because if there was ever a time when there was absolute nothing there would still be absolute nothing because nothing comes from nothing and nothing can produce nothing and it would be a contradiction to say nothing produces something because nothing by its nature is nothing and therefore there must always be something and we call this the law of the first cause or the argument of first cause and that is a rational argument for the existence of something that must have always existed and so that is an example of a classical apologetic argument there must be something that is eternal because there is something now does that make sense yeah so that's a classical argument and you might say well I've heard precepts use that yeah they do because they all do they all use they all borrow from each other that argument though would fall under the category of a rational argument I'm making a argument based upon the laws of logic it's not based upon evidence it's based upon logic and they are two different things and that's because evidentialists are empiricists I only believe what I can see smell taste touch and feel well you can't see touch taste touch or feel logic logic is a law but it is not something that you can empirically examine therefore and evidence would be the earth itself is orderly an order demands an orderer therefore the earth itself evidences god because it's an orderly earth so evidentialism is looking at the evidences this is where guys like uh who'd you mention lee lee strobel lee strobel would be an evidence he would say this I didn't come at this with any pre suppositions I just went where the evidence took me which is a lie lie lie but we'll talk about that in a minute that's why I'm a presuppositionalist nobody comes to the facts without certain pre-drawn conclusions that's what a presuppositionalist affirms that everyone has certain axioms what is an axiom an axiom is something that is taken for granted it is not proved it is used to prove something else an axiom is something that is taken for granted it is not something that is proved but rather it is used to prove something else so for instance if I said to you Janice why do you believe that your mind functions correctly you would have to begin by saying that I think and as soon as you say I think I could say but wait you can't use your mind to prove that your mind functions correctly and since you can't think outside of yourself you have to axiomatically assume that your mind thinks correctly to be able to prove that your mind thinks correctly so you have to make a certain presupposition about the the way that your mind works to even be able to have a conversation C.S.

Lewis said this he said if I didn't believe my mind was created for thinking I would have no reason to trust my own thought here it again if I didn't believe my mind was created for thinking that I wouldn't have any reason to believe my thoughts therefore his axiom is my mind was created to do what it does and that's a presupposition that is not proven but assumed how do we how do you know Brian that anybody else is in this room with you how do you know that you're even here I know that sounds silly I know that sounds silly but from the simplest terms how do you know for certain that you yes but you're assuming your axiom is that your eyes can tell you what is true and that's an axiom no it's not a lie it's something you're assuming it I'm not saying whether it's true or not I'm saying that you're assuming that it is you're not proving it no no my you guys are you guys have all heard the brain in a vat theory no okay this is a good one brain in a vat this is the heart of what's called solipsism or the idea that you can't really know anything outside yourself for certain the idea is how do you know that you are not a brain in a vat imagining everything that's going on around you how do you know for certain that you are not simply a brain that's hooked up to a computer and everything that you're experiencing right now is actually not real okay you want to talk about the matrix we can go we can go matrix how about this even even different than the matrix just think about your dreams your dreams happen when you're unconscious they feel very real have you never woken up from a dream and felt like it was real before they come true well let me go there but different class different different conversation the the uh the the point of it is is we presume certain things before we even begin to have a conversation with someone we presume that one they exist that two they have a brain the same way our brain is and our brains work the same way meaning I can logic and I can reason and I can have a conversation with you and I can use words that make sense and you can use words that make sense and all of these things are based upon presuppositions that a lot of people just take for granted here's the example this is in your book but you maybe haven't read it yet I thought it was great dr frame explains this very well I'm not sure he came up with it though he may have been quoting somebody else he said imagine this imagine somebody came to you and they believed that they were a I forget how he says in the book but I'll I'll I'll use my own example imagine somebody comes to you and they say they're the king of England and they believe they are the king of England they believe with all their hearts that they are the king now is it true that they're the king of England but they have presuppositions that they are they believe that they are they are presuming a fact about themselves whether it be true or not they believe it is true now here is how a lot of people say apologetics should be done we should rationalize with them that they're not the king of England we should give them evidences that they're not you're not even in England you're not in the palace you don't have a crown you know kings are glorious and you are a fool I mean whatever but here's where the presuppositionalist changes the whole conversation because the evidentialist says we need to start on neutral ground but you can't start on neutral ground with a person who's crazy you have to automatically start by believing what's true no matter whether or not they believe it so the presuppositionalist says we start with the bible people don't believe the bible I don't care I start with the bible because that's my overarching presupposition that this book is true well the other person doesn't believe it I don't believe that darwinianism is true is that going to keep him from being a darwinist is that going to keep him from citing darwin no you see that you see they are not going to give up their presuppositions therefore why should we the overarching presupposition of the christian is that the bible is true now we can talk about why we believe it's true but before we even get there we are presuming a fact that is the foundation for everything else that's what presuppositionalism is you are presuming the truth of scripture not just that god exists but that god exists as he has been defined in his own writing his word is truth and therefore every conversation I begin presumes that as the axiom of all truth yes okay I'm not reading from my notes I start with the bible as the foundation for all truth I think is what I said as the pre as the grand presupposition the bible is the grand presupposition what's the difference um let me think about that for a minute because I'm I am assuming a truth I'm but I'm presupposing meaning I'm using this prior to the engagement I'm presuming this assuming uh it could could be used I guess in a similar in a similar way um let me give you some thoughts about these things uh when you think about presuppositional thinking consider how a how an unbeliever approaches the scripture the unbeliever approaches the scripture by saying I need proof that god exists what does the bible say well it does say in the beginning the bible says he already has enough evidence Romans 1 says that not only does he have enough evidence for the existence of god but he has enough evidence for the existence of the true god and that he is without excuse he is he is unapologetic the word apology is in that statement he is without a defense one of the most famous atheists of the last century made that statement he said somebody asked him what are you going to do if you die and you find out god is real he said I'm going to look at god in the face and I'm going to say you didn't give me enough evidence my response to that even though he never heard it because he died um no it wasn't Stephen Hawking my response was simply when you face god you won't say anything the bible says your mouth will be closed and you will be without a defense right so the the presuppositional position recognizes our presuppositions as well as theirs the presupposition of most people is naturalism naturalism is the idea that I will only believe what is proven to me by evidence or reason so that is why classical and evidential apologetics are so popular because classical uses rationalism which is reason and evidence uses evidence but here's the problem with both of these without the presuppositional approach if you say to the unbeliever we're going to start on neutral ground there is no such thing because he already knows that god exists and he already knows the true god exists so how do you know that the bible says so that's my presupposition right so my presupposition is one he already knows god exists two already knows the true god who exists and three he's without excuse so when I approach him now I don't go up to him and say you know god exists you dummy I don't say it that way but I don't speak to him assuming that he doesn't either there's a guy actually a guy across the way here um I went to I was going house to house knocking on doors and doing some evangelism one day and I went to his house and he he came to the door and he looked like he was kind of tired maybe just woke up so I kind of maybe roused him and he hey how you doing oh yeah you pastor that church yeah yeah yeah and he said uh yeah well I want you to know I'm an atheist and everybody on this block are atheists I think he was just trying to get rid of me and I and I was kind of just a little off put you know he had him want to talk to me okay I don't want to sit here and argue with the guy he looks like he's half asleep so I thanked him gave him a card and left and a couple days later it just stirred my heart I was like I need to go back so I did and I went back I just wanted knocked on the door and he said uh he said hey this time he was awake and look like he just got home from work and he said hey how you doing I said hey I'm doing good I I said I just couldn't help but I had to come back I said the other day you told me you were an atheist I just want you know I don't believe you I said I'm not calling you a liar but I am going to tell you this the Bible says you know God exists and that you will stand before him one day without an excuse and I just wanted to remind you that and he just stunned I said thank you for opening the door I hope you have a good day well but you understand the point that I was pointing out to him he knows in his heart he's the one who has to lay down at night and close his eyes and and wrestle with his own soul I just wanted to give him something to wrestle with so yeah I'm gonna give you a few quotes to think about and then we're going to have our first break when it comes to classical and evidential apologetics I want to give you just a few quotes to think about classical apologetics according to the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy uses ontological arguments for the conclusion that God exists from premises which are supposed to derive from some source other than observation of the world basically from reason classical argumentation is an argument from reason not necessarily from evidence but reason and what is an ontological argument it's an argument from existence ontology is existence some R.C.

Sproul was the consummate classical apologist atheist illusion yeah yeah classical apologist like Norman Geisler is a classical apologist I mean his stuff is is pretty common among people and you'll hear it I'm not sure about what Ray said I'd have to go back and watch the video just to know if it was and again there's so much crossover R.C.

Sproul debated Greg Bonson on evidentialism or excuse me classical apologetics versus presuppositional R.C.

Sproul was not a presuppositionalist and he actually argued against it yes R.C.

Sproul was not a presuppositionalist he did not agree with Cornelius who was the great presuppositional fountainhead and they disagreed on this R.C.

was a classical apologist that's why we're not using his book as our textbook because if we would use R.C.'s book it would be from a classical perspective and I don't I don't I'm not saying don't read it it's just not the textbook I chose but when we come to evidential versus classical I want to I'm going you a quote from Norman Geisler this is something he said the difference between classical apologists and evidentialists on the use of historical evidences is that classicalists see the need to first establish that the universe is theistic the basic argument of the classical apologist is that it makes no sense to speak about the resurrection as an act of God unless as a prerequisite it is first established that there is a God.