September 2, 2016 Show with Tim Challies on “The Discipline of Spiritual Discernment”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania it's iron sharpens iron a radio platform on which pastors Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron. So one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage quote we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and Directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour. And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions. Now, here's our host. Good.

Afternoon. Cumberland County, Pennsylvania. And the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming. This is Chris Arns and your host of iron sharpens iron wishing you all a happy Friday on This first day of Labor Day weekend, and I am so delighted that on this second day of September 2016 I've got two New guests who have never been on the program before and I am eagerly looking forward to our interviews.

For the first hour We're gonna have Tim Challies on the program. He is an author blogger book reviewer for world magazine Which is one of our sponsors of iron sharpens iron and he's co-founder of cruciform press.

He's addressing the theme the discipline of spiritual discernment, which is also a book by crossway Publishing and we always thank crossway for producing some very solid literature. And the second hour We have Isaac Evans who is pastor of Glastonbury Baptist Church in Connecticut.

And he is one of the speakers at the conference coming up in Pittsburgh Indiana on the centrality of Christ throughout redemptive history. He's gonna be speaking along with Russell Fuller who is an Old Testament professor at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky and some other speakers and We will have him as our guest for the second hour.

God willing but first let me let me welcome for the very first time to honors iron sharpens iron Tim Challies. Hey Tim, it's great to have you on the program and as I typically do especially with guests that I'm Interviewing for the first time if you could let our listeners know something about Your own upbringing in regard to religion when and how you came to faith in Christ and Where you are at now in regard to your own Theological positions of obviously in summary form if you could tell us about that.

Sure. Yeah, I was raising a Christian. Oh, yeah. Came back praise God.

Well, I happen to be very pleased with the the shift in your view on baptism because I also happen to be a Reformed Baptist and actually have been since shortly after my conversion in the mid 1980s I was raised Roman Catholic and The very first church.

Thanks be to God according to his providence. The very first evangelical church that I began to Regularly attend and which I eventually was baptized in and joined was a Reformed Baptist Church so very soon after Going to that church.

I did come to embrace those distinctives and praise God for them. Yeah, and.

You.

Also are a prolific writer and you've got this Book that Crossway has published titled the discipline of spiritual discernment. I have been in Christian radio For over 30 years and that seems to be a very seriously lacking discipline in the lives of many people in broadcasting and obviously in those who run operate and work for and own Christian publishing houses, unfortunately I remember Hank Hanegraaff of the Bible Answer Man once saying that most Christian bookstores should have a sign over the door that says enter at your own risk and I know that those local Christian bookstores are a dying breed because of the internet, but that certainly should be true with Internet Christian bookstore or book warehouses and.

So tell us what was the motivation behind the discipline of spiritual discernment?

Yeah, and.

Then let me give the email address if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own. Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. At CHRISARNZEN at gmail .com please give us your first name at least your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA and Obviously you may remain anonymous if it makes you feel more comfortable.

Especially if we're discussing something like this on occasion we have listeners who are members of churches that they are noticing something that is giving them Hesitation to agree with the leadership there and obviously they may feel uncomfortable about identifying that church.

We would actually prefer you do that. Not identify this church or religion or what have you unless it's of course a major False religion or cult or something like that, but if you feel More comfortable remaining anonymous you may do so and by the way, I also want to make sure I announce before I forget the upcoming G3 conference where our guest Tim Challies is one of many speakers.

This is going to be held January 19th through the 21st in 2017. I am so delighted that I will be there. God willing With an exhibitors booth. Thanks to Josh Bice and the folks at Praise Meal Baptist Church and also getting out there to Atlanta, Georgia, thanks to one of my sponsors Linbrook Baptist Church on Long Island, New York and I just really want to thank everybody who converged together to make it possible for Iron Trip and Zion to be there and This is one of the most phenomenal lineups of Speakers I've ever seen at a conference and one of the lengthiest if not the lengthiest Paul Washer, Stephen J. Lawson, DA Carson, Voti Baucom, my dear friend of nearly 27 or 8 years Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries our guests today Tim Challies.

Conrad M. Bayway who's been a friend of mine since 1995 one of the most powerful preachers on the planet Earth if not the most powerful preacher from a Kibwata Baptist Church of Lusaka, Zambia, Africa.

Phil Johnson who has been on Iron Sharpens Iron I think more than any other guest that we've ever interviewed. Phil Johnson is the executive director of Grace to You the ministry of John MacArthur and We have Rosaria Butterfield who we've had on this program twice.

Who is a former lesbian and leftist professor a tenured professor at Syracuse University in New York and she by the grace of God was rescued from that damning and deadly lifestyle and Transformed by the grace of God.

She is now married to a Presbyterian pastor and Has written a number of books. I'm looking forward to meeting her in person after having interviewed her twice. Todd Friel who's been on this program a number of times from wretched radio and wretched TV.

And that's just about half of the speakers. So if you'd like to go to that conference go to g3 conference comm. G3 conference comm that's G the number three conference Comm and please if you register tell them that you heard about the conference from Chris Arnzen at Iron Sharpens Iron radio.

Well, you know Tim I remember as I was just Recalling earlier of my my all the years I've worked in Christian radio. I Remember chuckling when the one of the stations I worked for for 15 years Would have surveys for their listeners On who their favorite program hosts were and sometimes you would have people picking things that had nothing to do with one of the It was 180 degrees polar opposites.

You'd have people like saying something like my favorite programs are John MacArthur and Kenneth Copeland or something like that. You know people who are in direct opposition to each other. This is obviously a reflection of poor discernment or not even really listening to what people are Saying or seeing what they are writing.

If you could Tell us because this is obviously Cultivating a discipline. It's not just telling people they must have spiritual discernment and then leaving them On their own you are actually giving a blueprint of some kind for Cultivating or developing the discipline of spiritual discernment.

What would be some of the initial things that people should start doing? When they are trying to achieve that goal of being.

Biblically sound in their spiritual discernment. Well, you know in Acts 8 31 we have that.

Classic verse. How could I? Understand unless someone guides me. Philip was being asked that question by the Ethiopian eunuch and Obviously Reading the Bible and studying the Bible is vital and perhaps the most important thing along with praying about what you're studying, but obviously There is some kind of a need for a guide to those who are teaching us.

And unfortunately, we live in a fallen world. We are surrounded by in the church by sinners and just other fallible men. And we don't have a in the in the True genuine church that Jesus Christ founded.

We don't have a Pope and even the Roman Catholic Pope Does not really settle all issues because the Roman Catholic Church is splintered and probably in more directions than Bible-believing evangelicals are which is why it's somewhat comical when when the Roman Catholic apologists accuse us of having a blueprint for anarchy in our understanding of sola scriptura when they are Probably more divided than we are just under the same umbrella of Roman Catholicism.

But how do you answer to that question when? We do need teachers and we need the right kind of teachers.

Well, we all need teachers and and of course you have to be.

Berean you have to test everything that your Teachers are saying to see if they are in accordance with the Word of God just as Paul Commended the Bereans for doing he did not get insulted and say who are you questioning?

I'm an apostle. You know, he actually applauded them. He commended them for making sure everything he was saying was accurate. We have to Cannot elevate our leaders and pastors to the point where they are such.

Heroes, I mean, I'm not. I don't think there's anything wrong with having heroes. I think it's a very right thing to have yours, but when they be when we become blind to their faults and inconsistency inconsistencies and their fallibility.

We can erect idols in our lives with these teachers. Can't we?

Sure and Right, we do have a listener from Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York CJ.

Who asks in your opinion? What would be the three best books to give to a brand new convert in Jesus Christ? Yeah, well we got to have you back on the program to discuss that book and who publishes that.

That's from Zondervan. Oh great. Well, well, by the way CJ You're gonna get free of charge as our gift to you the discipline of spiritual discernment thanks to our friends at crossway books and That's going to be shipped to you by our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CV BBS comm that's CV for Cumberland Valley BBS for Bible book service comm and we thank CV BBS comm for being a faithful sponsor of iron sharpens iron.

So keep your eye open for that in the mail CJ and we hope you enjoy that and feel free to pass it on to a new convert if that's Why you're asking that question, perhaps, you know somebody who's just came come to Christ and you want to give them some good books.

Well, Tim Chalies is a very faithful resource. So We hope you enjoy that. What do you think are the the most prevalent and.

Harmful.

Things being taught in the church today that seem to be even causing those who were known for theological soundness to Start to drift into aberrant thinking, you know some of the what are the areas that are perhaps even shocking to you that coming out of even some of the circles that you and I are in or theologically reformed or Calvinistic circles or having influence over them.

Well, it's interesting that that young in fact all of these encounters seem to be Getting a wide audience even in Roman Catholic circles and that strikes me as being odd because you would think that these people would be in purgatory Not in heaven or immediately.

So you and in some ways they sound remarkably the same the other funny. Amen.

We have.

Yeah. Inevitably every time. Eventually removes the focus from the Word of God and you know through our sin We don't have the kind of access to go into sin now God is greatly going back to God's word.

Think about we have Tyler in Mastic Beach, Long Island, New York.

Who asks why is it that many professing modern? Evangelicals say the doctrine does not matter when it divides correctly between heresy and orthodoxy.

Well, I think that's been a key. Well.

Guess what. Tyler you're getting a free copy of the book that we are discussing today the discipline of spiritual discernment by Tim Challey's. So keep an eye out for that and thanks again to crossway books for providing those Copies of the discipline of spiritual discernment and also thanks to CVB BS comm For shipping those out to our winners.

And in fact, we are going to our first break right now, and if you'd like to join us on the air as well. Our email address again is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Don't go away.

We're gonna be right back after these messages with Tim Challey's and more of our discussion on the discipline of spiritual discernment, so don't go away. I Am Chris Arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio here to tell you about an exciting offer from world magazine My trusted source for news from a Christian perspective.

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Call them at 6 3 1 9 2 9 35 12 for service times 6 3 1 9 2 9 35 12 or check out their website at wrbc .us. That's wrbc .us. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnsin. If you just tuned us in our guest for the first hour is Tim Challey's author blogger book reviewer for world magazine Whose ad you just heard moments ago and co-founder of cruciform press.

He's addressing the theme of his book the discipline of spiritual discernment. And the second hour. We're going to be joined by Isaac Evans of Glastonbury Baptist Church in Connecticut. Who will address the centrality of Christ throughout redemptive history.

Our email address is Chris Arnsin at gmail .com. Chris Arnsin at gmail .com. And we have BB in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania. Who wants to know it seems that most of the ministries with enough financial resources to be on?

Television are theologically bankrupt and dangerous. Can you list at least a few that you would highly recommend televangelists, yeah, yeah. I'm assuming that. Well, I definitely. John MacArthur's program grace to you is on.

Television networks throughout perhaps. I'm I'd be shocked if they weren't in Canada as well. Run stations in Canada and also RC Sproul's program Renewing your mind, which is an excellent program. He is on radio stations and television networks all over the country and.

I.

Can't think of another one right off the top of my head but I'm sure that I will before the end of the program and I'll let you know. And I apologize to those who have TV programs that I'm overlooking right now.

But there are a number of them but they are in the minority. I would agree with our listener BB. And by the way, BB you're also getting a free copy of the discipline of spiritual discernment by our guest Tim Chalice.

One of the chapters in your book Discusses the will and discernment if you could comment further on that. The will and discernment.

Yeah, well, obviously.

When I read that title, I'm thinking that That this is not something that even though we're Calvinists both you and I it's not something that is going to zap us and we're automatically going to be having a brain like a computer that can spit out anything that is unbiblical and absorb everything that is we've got to be willingly involved with.

Disciplining ourselves. I'm assuming that's what you may be talking about. Yeah.

We have Jeff from Clinton Township, Michigan.

Who says John Stott was an annihilationist. Tim Keller is an evolutionist? How does a Christian determine what teaching is acceptable and what isn't and what's allowed? I guess he's speaking about What teaching from each of these individuals and others who may have some things that are very solid that they teach and they have some things that surprise us that they That we might consider to be aberrant the the reformed faith.

There are many in the reformed faith that you and I embrace that would uphold both of these men as as Trustworthy leaders and yet what our listener is saying is true. John Stott, although I don't know if he was a committed an annihilationist.

He certainly believed it was an acceptable understanding of eternal eschatology and Tim Keller is on the record for being a believer in theistic evolution and Both of these men also have been praised by some of my heroes.

Like I know Sinclair Ferguson who's one of my modern-day heroes had Tim Keller write the forward for his latest book. So if you could comment on that Yeah, and another Name like like John Stott would be J. I Packer who has written things that have been such an Enormous blessing to the body of Christ and yet many have their eyebrows raised over the extreme ecumenism embraced by him and even Dr. Martin Lloyd-Jones had problems with his ecumenism.

So I just like what you said earlier the best of men are men at best and although we are to glean all we can from Men who have a reputation for biblical soundness. We cannot be blind to their their failings and faults and Errors and look upon them as infallible in any way.

Right and just have to. In fact, I've had a couple of guests on.

Recently who are very strong Calvinists the theologically reformed brethren and yet they Were on my show talking about the great need for especially seasoned Christians to be willing to Learn from and read the writings of some great men of God who are not Calvinists.

Would you agree with that? Well, Jeff You are also getting a free copy of the discipline of spiritual discernment by our guest in Charlie's so thank you very much for the question and One of the chapters in your book, I hope that you remember something about this chapter, but it has such a Striking title.

I'm thinking it may jog your memory the dangers of discernment that almost seems oxymoronic.

I.

Couldn't help but immediately think when you were starting to describe that chapter. I couldn't help but think of AW pink who has been such a tremendous blessing to the body of Christ and so theologically sound So right on the money.

I even know Anti-calvinists who love a lot of what a W pink wrote. And yet he wound up didn't he become somewhat like a hermit? He just kind of withdrew himself From the church. He just thought everybody was going to hell in a handbasket and it was Hardly a remnant to be found anywhere.

Yeah, that's my understanding anyway, right. And by the way, I do not want anybody to hesitate.

Buying and reading books by a W pink because he certainly was a phenomenally gifted brother in Christ prolific writer and He is definitely somebody that every one should include in their library shelves.

Because he Just he has he has been used of God to open up the eyes of Countless individuals to not only the gospel, but even some of the finer points of theology like the doctrines of grace. So.

But and what specifically are you going to be addressing? I don't even know if you are fully.

Have it nailed down yet, but do you know what you're specifically speaking on at the g3 conference?

Then just to remind our listeners again.

That website for more details on the g3 conference is. G the number three conference comm. G the number three conference comm and I really hope to see as many of you as possible at that conference.

Put a little pitch out. Put a little pitch out for it. Amen, and I have had.

Most of the speakers there on this program and I am eagerly and Enthusiastically trying to get all of the speakers. I possibly can to be interviewed before The conference itself and I can tell you that Josh Bice the organizer Of the event is returning.

God willing to iron sharpens iron once again on Monday September 26th 4 to 6 p .m. Eastern Time and he did a wonderful job the last time he was with us and I'm hoping to as I said get all of these speakers on the program and I just Thoroughly excited about this.

Now going back to the the discipline of discernment Can You Basically give some more as we conclude the program some practical advice regarding Prayer and and reading and not only scripture reading but any other kind of study that you would Recommend to help cultivate this kind of discernment in the life of a Christian.

Yeah, I think we see the value that's considered. His is probably his magnum opus isn't it. Or his at least is one of his Greatest and highly recommend works. Yeah, the cross of Christ. I think. And why not plug.

Cruciform press since it's something that you helped found. The website is cruciform press. Comment that actually that the title has Something near and dear to my heart because I have an ad agency that I operate.

That is cruciform media. So, I love that term cross-shaped cruciform, yeah.

Yeah, in fact, I don't even know if you're aware of this but someone over at crucifix.

Someone over at cruciform press was kind enough to ship us Books for all of the pastors that attended my last iron sharpens iron Pastors luncheon. In fact, I believe it was do more better now that I think about it.

Yellow cover. Yeah, we had nearly a hundred men there at the iron sharpens iron pastors luncheon recently a few months ago and We were very happy to give those out to each and every pastor that attended the event.

So we think we thank cruciform precedent. Of course, I can't forget solid ground Christian books who sponsors this program. Solid-ground-books .com. Solid-ground-books .com if you have a book that you want to buy it for a loved one or yourself.

It's a very faithful and trustworthy resource as well. From with the authors from the past and the present. The best of the authors from the past and the present.

We.

Have a listener who wants to know in this day and age of rampant homosexuality There seems to be two extremes in the Christian Church. On one polar opposite end you have those who demonstrate hate and or even unconcerned towards those Involved in that activity and then you have on the other extreme even evangelicals who seem to have become very soft on that sin and View it as being no more serious than an occasional losing of the temper or something.

What is your guests advice for having biblical discernment on how to address this issue?

Well, I would like you to.

Basically summarize in the next three minutes of what You would most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners before they leave the program today. Amen. Anything other than what you've mentioned on the the drawing board for.

Upcoming books that you plan on on writing and publishing. Yeah, we're talking about. Wow. Well.

Definitely I know that your website is chalice .com Ch a LL is calm and people can go to that for more details and please if you could tell dr Sproul, we would love to have him back on Iron sharpens iron.

He was a guest once on the program and I know it's harder and harder to get him interviewed But I would love to get him back on this program again. Well, you know, it's been an honor privilege to have you on Tim and I really look forward to God-willing having you return as a guest on a number of occasions in the future if you are willing and if God opens the door For that, that would be great.

Thanks for having me. Hey my pleasure. And once again, Tim Chalice website is chalice .com ch a LL is calm and His website for his publishing ministry that he co-founded is cruciform press calm Cruc if as in Frank or M as in Mary press calm god bless you Tim thank you and Coming up in our second hour of the program.

We have a pastor Isaac Evans joining us he is the pastor of Glastonbury Baptist Church in Glastonbury, Connecticut and He is going to be talking about a conference That he is going to be speaking at along with Russell Fuller of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and a number of other folks and if you stay tuned, we're gonna be joined by Pastor Evans after this state.

Don't don't go away. We're going to be right back after these messages.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said.

Give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read. He who never quotes will never be quoted. He will not use the thoughts of other men's brains. Pruessley has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid ground Christian books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart. The mission of solid ground Christian books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and future and To publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001 solid ground has been committed to publish God-centered Christ exalting books for all ages. We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid-ground-books .com That's solid-ground-books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past or present You can unearth from solid ground.

Solid ground Christian books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of iron sharpens iron radio.

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Linbrook Baptist org. That's Linbrook Baptist org. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen and our second guest for this evening is Pastor Isaac Evans. He is pastor of Glastonbury Baptist Church in Glastonbury, Connecticut.

And he is one of the featured speakers at the Christ our Redeemer Conference to be held next weekend Friday and Saturday of next week at the Pittsburgh Baptist Church in Pittsburgh, Indiana. That's Friday September 9th and Saturday September 10th.

Among the other speakers include my very dear friend pastor Josh Fryman of Community Baptist Church in Riverhead, Long Island, New York Pastor John peoples of Grace Presbyterian Church in Indianapolis, Indiana and dr Russell Fuller who is the plenary speaker?

He is a professor of Old Testament at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky and We are honored and privileged to have for the very first time one of the other speakers Pastor Isaac Evans.

Welcome to iron sharpens iron.

Hey.

Yeah, it's my pleasure brother. And. As I always do when I have a first-time guest if you could especially if they are a pastor. Let us know something about Glastonbury Baptist Church and and forgive me if I am mispronouncing that.

Oh.

Sure, it's a it's glass and berry. But anyway, it was a church plant in 2008 and the pastor left in May of 2015 and so on. The second pastor, I guess we did have. I've been there since November of 2015 and Glastonbury is small and growing we.

Great. And as you know, I also happen to be a Baptist. I am a member of Grace Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, which is a reformed Baptist Church Adhering to the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, but as you know being a Baptist as well.

There are all kinds of Baptist. Can you kind of summarize? What kind of Baptist Church Glastonbury Baptist Church is the best kind?

We work convention and.

I.

Kind of I can and just try to you know, teach what the Bible says, which is what everybody says.

Well, even Charles said Well, you answered it as best as you wanted to and Charles Haddon Spurgeon is In the same company of those who was called a hyper Calvinist on one side and another Arminian on the other.

So sure, and now I typically ask especially with first-time guests a summarized version of their testimony of what kind of religious atmosphere you were raised in and How you came to know the Jesus Christ of the Bible and trust in his gospel?

Well, I was elect before the foundation of the Off and on the Baptist Church off and on when I was nine, my dad took me to a real rural Baptist Church in Indiana and Central, Indiana and I service and got saved and then was baptized and I've always kind of felt like I can be a thing.

In In.

Growing up until I was about 19. I That's kind of my testimony in a nutshell say when I was nine was praying for me and I was Resisting and didn't want to go and then now would that be?

Would that be pastor Brock Evans?

Yes, he is my brother. Pretty sure. That's the only reason he's having me speak.