December 22, 2005

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now at 602 9 7 3 4 6 0 2 or toll-free across the United States. It's 1 8 7 7 7 5 3 3 3 4 1 and now with today's topic. Here is James white.

Upcoming Debates, Conferences, and the Pulpit Crimes Theme

And a good afternoon evening to you on a very special edition of the dividing line. The suspense is killing some people. I think poor deo valente is about to blow a gasket. There are a few other people that are about to blow something.

I'm not sure what but we have some some big news for you today on the program I will be joined in just a moment by Michael Fallon who always joins me with big news, especially about upcoming conferences debates cruises and the like but Before then before we even get to the really really big shoe before we get to that we Have an opportunity of a second big announcement just yesterday I received word That in May we're working on the date right now.

Don't worry. We will be giving you a Heads up we will let you know as soon as we have this. The date in May I will be at Biola debating Shabir Ali the same gentleman that we've listened to a number of times on the program a Apologist for the Islamic faith and we will be debating in California at Biola in May.

So that's going to be a tremendous opportunity and we'll be giving you details on the topics. We have three debates. Well at least two debates possibly three debates in April on the doctrines of grace Lord willing at least one on the Somewhere near Auburn University in March Lord willing and now Shabir Ali Biola in May and That means 2006 is going is turning out to be a very very big year very very busy year.

But more so than that Let's go ahead and bring Michael Fallon online. Hi Mike. How you doing? Good evening, James. How are you, sir? I'm doing pretty well. It seems like I saw you just like last weekend.

Actually, I think it was or we were as we can before last.

We did have a chance to have a great time together and worship and and really evangelize together.

Yes, it was very very very enjoyable there in Tampa. But you've been very very busy since then. And before we tell folks about the debate and stuff let's let's let's back up a little bit and let's talk a little bit about The conference and the cruise that we have coming up now.

I cannot take credit for the title of Of our conference and cruise because someone you and I both know came up with this this particular title.

Correct. Chris Arnson came up with this title back a few months ago. Yep, and really had it as an idea of something that we could build around a book that I believe that you're gonna Be starting to work on here in the next few months and it should be out actually.

For the conference right now that we have that that you know when you put deadlines like that on it. You you tend to get stuff done.

Absolutely. Well, it's just it's a great idea and so much has come out of this. It's going to be the basis for basically everything that we do here in the next. I mean, I gosh I guess it's only 10 months now 10 11 months.

We have to go but that's basically the entire Theme of what we have going on both for the cruise for the conference. It's to some extent with the debate as well. Yeah, I'll go too far into that.

But but I think I think it all fits together very very very well now the idea of pulpit crimes. We live in a day where? Unfortunately, the preaching ministry of the word is is mocked by many and and for good reason in light of.

What you see going on behind pulpits. What you see going on in television. What you see Going on even in formerly Orthodox churches things that happen during worship services. What is taken for preaching today?

So there is a wide Variety of subjects and topics that you can get into of course on the subject of pulpit crimes. But aside from myself speaking. Tell us a little bit about who's going to be Lord willing joining us in November of next year.

Well in November of next year, we are going to be on the Holland America bean Dom going out of Playa del Carmen to Grand Cayman and then also stopping at Ocho Rios, Jamaica, and that'll be seven days on the Holland America bean down just a beautiful luxurious ship five-star ship with Holland America line and Included in everything that you get there you get your topics you get your accommodations you get your food you get your drink you get What's your Presbyterian?

You get all your drink and so forth. But it's just going to be an absolutely fantastic time. You can get all that for basically $579 and the gentlemen that we are going to be filthy camp. So I'm just kidding once again, and this is the same team that we had back in 2004.

James would you say that some of our best times that we've had really a fellowship and Getting to know people being able to rub shoulders and so forth and see what's on people's hearts and minds and so forth has been.

On these cruises. Oh, yes. Oh, yes most most definitely. That's a tremendous time of fellowship and ministry and of course that'll be continuing the topics that we developed during the conference. Beforehand.

Now I've you know these areas better than I do. First of all we've never been to any of those places on the cruise. Have we know we have it. Not a ring a bell at all with me as far as places. We've gone now everybody knows that I'm Real big on getting off the ship and doing all sorts of exploring and things like that so.

Yeah, but still these are going to be new places that are not repeating places.

We've gone to before correct. And that's always what we try to do. We try to make sure that we're always giving folks some variety. I know we had close to golly a hundred and sixty hundred seventy folks on the cruise with us two years ago.

This is actually the seventh together believe it or not. Yes. This this one has some itineraries that especially during that time of the year Grand Cayman, it's just gorgeous in November as well as Ochas Rios, Jamaica and Playa del Carmen.

I was just down there with the founders cruise that we did for them are always going to be unique. Your different kinds of destinations for doing a tropical port. It's just going to be wonderful. You know swing palms such or that kind of thing heard about it is really spend together.

I don't think you get to know people like you do on a cruise the time that you end up spending eating together talking together. Relaxing together having fun together. That's what we do and if anybody in channel say yeah, that is the best time that we've ever had.

But certainly it's This year's topics that we have with pulpit crimes. And I don't know if you could maybe shed some light on some of these topics that we have here James topics such as.

Felonious isa Jesus. We actually spent some time in the last cruise coming up with some of these. Actually I came up almost all of them. We had a had a group session where other people came up with stuff.

But it was it was attempting to use the crime metaphor to explain the various things we can address. That is issues regarding what the nature of preaching is the the content of preaching the fact that we Have gone away from viewing preaching as a proclamation of God's truth where you trust the Holy Spirit of God to apply to people's hearts to where we're using all sorts of isms and programs and and Everything to attract the natural man rather than worshiping God.

There's so many different directions you can go. As well as then dealing with issues such as who is To be involved in the proclamation the word hence the qualifications of eldership the issues of female elders the issues of Homosexuality coming up of course and the Episcopalian Church and Bishop Robinson and and all the things that are associated with that.

There's there's a tremendous range of things that you can address which also will allow our speakers to have The ability to address issues as they would like to address them and the things that are really on their hearts.

Orlando Conference, Cruise Logistics, and Speakers

Now there's going to be a little difference between Some I mean the conference itself. Where is it taking place and who's gonna be speaking at. Tell us a little bit about that?

Well sure before we leave on this this great seven-day cruise as we always have done sure that whatever area that we're starting in we're getting a chance to really bless the churches that are in that area and.

The content point of this cruise for years. I think going back even to 1999. James. Yeah, when we did it then it was that was one of the main purposes of having the cruises that we could have a real Great start actually in the Walt Disney World both there in the downtown Disney area.

If you stay with us there at the hotel you get free admission. Well, first of all, if you cruise with us, even if you're not at the hotel, you get free admission into the conference and debate. Guaranteed spot there if you stay at the hotel as well for each day that you Walt Disney World you get admission free free admission into the debate and conference and.

The hotel is actually right there across the street. We've got our great rate there of a hundred and twenty nine dollars that includes your conference fees and everything else. You can basically can come and stay with us there and use the Dwarf to say hey to Mickey or do Epcot or whatever the Other theme parks that you want to go to you can do that gonna be taking place.

Gonna be still starting us on that theme and the speakers the speakers this year. We have a gentleman by the name of dr. James White.

He's always at our conference. Yeah, sadly. We keep trying to get rid of me. Just keep showing up. I'm not sure why. Well, then we also have the great the.

Director of. Grace to you and the gentleman who has the famous pyromaniac the pyromaniac blog. Yes.

Yes, absolutely. The leader the lead the king of the blogosphere.

Yes, Bill Bill Johnson and actually a couple of other guys that have some popular blogs. Dr Tom Askew of the founders ministry, that's right and a very non-controversial gentlemen Steve camp. Yes Yes camp on this also David King.

We have returning again, and it is not have a blog by man.

No, we don't have it is not have a blog. He does not have a blog, but he does have Bible works now. Oh, really? Oh, yeah, I just got by works. He loves it. Excellent.

Well, we love that and he's and he's great. He always does an incredible job at all the conferences that we have and then got the editor of table talk magazine.

Burke Parsons none of your ministries. That's the first time that that we've had that.

That's correct. And Burke has been a friend of the ministry for years. He's been a couple of our debates. I think a lot of the gentleman over at Ligonier is really loved alpha to make a ministries and the stupid doing and.

So kudos to you gentlemen. Thank you for supporting us. That's us.

That's gonna be absolutely wonderful. I mean just simply leaving me out just as far as the other gentleman are concerned. It'd be well worth Traveling to Orlando, which is by the way a very wonderful wonderfully easy place to get in and out of.

As far as that goes it's designed to be that way and Hence is going to be a lot cheaper for people to get in and out of. In fact I I'm wondering if it would have been cheaper to fly people into Orlando than Seattle last time around.

Just just bus them across the u .s. It would have worked out. I mean, it's just that's just the way it's designed. It's it's that they obviously they have to be able to get people in there cheaply to be able to do things.

And so well, and that's true. I mean if you take a look at folks wherever you are in the United States or even internationally that's a places to fly into and then all you have to do is basically get yourself to the hotel there at Hotel Royal Plaza and Everything's taken care of for you.

You really don't need to rent a car or anything else. Anywhere you want within walking distance within five minutes walking distance. You're actually in the middle of a couple of different theme park theme parks like Blizzard Beach, or I believe it's a typhoon.

Oh, I've never been there person. I've only been in Disneyland haven't been in Disney World. No, I've never been to Disney World. Well, we have to go to Epcot 10 and take some cool rides. That you know before the debate that might not be a really good idea.

I think I might be a little focus. We really need to get around this because the people and channel and stuff are starting to get ready to Lynch both of you and I and take over the world if we don't get around to actually James.

You know what? I thought I'd do for some inspiration. I've got disputations on Holy Scripture here. Well, let me say this folks is that this past year, of course, you know that we had the opportunity of debating Dr. John Dominic Crossman, you know in Seattle, and he he was he was very kind like oh very much.

We we have extreme differences, obviously in theology. You know, we don't really know where he stands spiritually and so forth. Well, I think we do. Sorry, I really like the guy but unfortunately there's there's a he did an incredible job in debating.

Dr James White and I think James ought to be quite lacking in several areas. But the there was somebody that we were actually trying to to have debate last year. That we didn't have the opportunity to and and the subject matter that we wanted to tackle.

Was going to be homosexuality, right?

And in fact, I think if we had told folks that the subject this year the thesis will be is homosexuality consistent with authentic Christianity. That would have really given them a fairly decent idea of what the debate was going to be about, huh?

Who's gonna be with. Yes, absolutely. And and actually, you know, I think I talked checked with dr James Dobson and he said if we're gonna have this debate it should be a Disney World. But you know. We we approached this gentleman and his wife a little while ago about two months ago and have been Negotiating and we finally got it done.

They were ready now to announce and yeah, you want to go ahead right? I most certainly do our.

Debate for 2006 is going to be against the retired Bishop of Newark of the Episcopalian Church Reverend Bishop John Shelby spong on the subject is Homosexuality compatible with authentic Christianity that will be taking place November 3rd the night before we embark upon our debate and I am tremendously excited about this.

He has written many many books and in fact to his most recent Book, I am holding in my hand called the sins of Scripture exposing the Bible's texts of hate to reveal the God of love and on page 119 in the chapter on the Bible and homosexuality It says.

But since the defenders the traditional condemnation of homosexuality depends So vehemently on this clear teaching that's in in quotes from the quote Word of God end quote I must enter their battlefield and confront these condemning text.

It is a way of removing from those staunch defenders the righteousness of their claims that the Bible supports their prejudice. That quite frankly is not a very difficult thing to do as I hope to demonstrate in successive Chapters in which I will examine in detail the text found on the opening page of this section.

I'll begin with Leviticus not because it is first because it is the most frequently cited and then he moves on from there. So I certainly One thing's for certain. I have his debate notes and if he does a little research he would have mine because this is not the first time I've debated this subject and There's a little book out there in in publication called the same-sex controversy.

So certainly there shouldn't be much Problem in both sides knowing exactly where the other one's going to be going. Which makes for the best type of debate where you have the both sides fully prepared to be able to engage the subject.

The Spong Debate and Homosexuality in Christianity

Well, and actually that's we always try to do. I think that we always try to make sure that no matter what that the two gentlemen that we have Representing each side are the two strongest Opponents that they have the ability to defend their their side in the best way possible.

And so that's really why we want to try to get Reverend Spong is because I think he has written probably more and has been the most outspoken.

Spokesperson for this cause. Oh, yes very much. So I mean, it's it's throughout all of his books I have a whole stack of his books sitting next to me here. I stand born of a woman new Christianity for a new world living in sin rescuing the Bible from fundamentalism Why Christianity must change or die and I would imagine I think I am correct to say that this issue Comes up in every single one of them every single one of them so It certainly would be a situation where some people may look at the Barry Lynn debate and go well, you know He wasn't really prepared.

He didn't have a Bible with him. He had to borrow yours during the cross-examination blah blah blah blah here you have someone who Obviously has well, I've seen him debating Walter Martin from years and years ago on the John Ankerberg show.

This is not something that he's new to doing. He's been in the forefront of this stuff for a long long time and therefore Makes it makes an excellent debate opponent to have on November 3rd. So not only Can people look forward to a a tremendous conference with Phil Johnson and Tom Askew and Burke Parsons?

Look forward to the cruise, but Right in between the two just as we did this year in Seattle. The debate with John Shelby Spong on the subject of homosexuality fits perfectly with in fact one of the chapter titles in my outline for the book is on the issue of Homosexuality and so it fits exactly with the the entire Overarching theme of the conference and things like that.

And so that's what's been going on, of course. Talking with the man who arranged all of it. I don't do that stuff. I'm not good at that kind of stuff. That's that's what folks like Mike or for doing that kind of stuff.

And so I appreciate the effort that go into it. I know it took a lot of time a lot of effort and I'm very excited that it is is going to take place.

Registration, Value, and Final Logistics

Well, absolutely number again. Here's a couple things to is that if you take a look at this and we'll have the the proper links up here. Probably within the next 15 minutes or so, but that we do try not to ever overcharge for these sort of things.

We we just want to make sure that that we take care of the cost and so forth. The Gospels being proclaimed if you take a look at a lot of other conferences and so forth. Sometimes you you want to go to the the charges are pretty pretty high.

Maybe the average person can't do that. Hey, we're saying you can get in free if you get in now. Into the into your hotel rooms if you get in before February 28th. You get into the to the the conference you get into the debate.

There's there's no. It's a great way for you to be able to bring your family something that they could enjoy. And as well if you're on the cruise if you join us on the cruise you get everything for free.

Whether you stay at the hotel or not. So once again, we're trying to give you the best value possibly to get away with your retreat. In in a time when you can be really immersed in in reformed theology and reformed apologetics.

A great event like this. This is something we've been trying to put together for years really to you. Thank you. Thank you. We're standing for the truth, man.

Well, thanks for being on the program today and letting everybody in channel finally relax so they their their blood pressures can go and I Probably don't need to read out the URL. You said that that's that should be up on the site fairly quickly here.

For some reason it's not going up just yet. So we're trying to work on that right now. Okay blank images and so forth.

Oh, well, that's that's not good. Well, if you want to go immediately, it's not too difficult to find www .sovereigncruises .org. I just fixed it. Oh, you just fixed it. Oh, okay. Well, then you can use that the magical wizard behind the screen.

That's.

Yeah. Well, let me let me say this to you. Let me give kudos both to rich and then to my my niece Kathy who's also my business partner. I'm putting these links and.

Pages together just did a real well great. Yeah, it does. It does really look good get on to the conference website there there's all the information you need. Looks very very professional and You know, I've had a number of people asking me about the cruise because this at this time of year they are lining out their vacation time for next year and so that's why everybody needs to know about this now and so they can get things set up and and jump on it and It's going to be a wonderful time.

Next year is going to be incredible. I mean Shabir Ali and And John Shelby spong all in all in one year talk about covering both ends of the spectrum. We are your equal opportunity apologetics Resource Center right here at Alpha Omega Ministries.

Thank you Mike for being with me today. Absolutely, brother. All righty. God bless my life and I thank him very very much. There you go for all the work that went into this and If you're hitting the website right now You should be able to see the conference page and get all that.

Working out for you and things like that only one person prior to the beginning of the program. Anyways, I now see some other people have jumped on board. But we had a poll going in our channel. The options were Dan Brown NT right Rick Warren John Shelby spong Tony Campola Norman Geisler William Lane Craig Bart Ehrman Brian McLaren and Dave Hunt and The only person who voted for John Shelby spong was Clyde Bowman.

Our good friend Milo Mutato Was the only person and there's been a couple people since then who have thrown their vote in there. I saw I saw Red Go team mentioning spong, but I I'm looking at the page right now.

I don't see a vote there. So, you know if you don't know how to vote properly. What can I say, you know, but anyways Kudos to Mutato for having gotten that one, right? Yes. He's waving to the crowd now.

We should if I can have some sound here on my system, please. Very very well done. Mutato got it, right and so anyway. Excellent website there. I'm excited. We we knew we've been working on this for a long long time.

But we only got word last week that we were able to put it together. So start making your plans now. There are many many people Who have said over and over again? Oh, I wish I had been able to go to such-and-such a bit.

Wish I had been able to do this if I just known earlier. Okay, no excuses not to know earlier at this particular point in time. We've given you 11 months head start on this one almost ten and a half. So now you know and you're gonna want to be there.

You're gonna want to be at the conference you're gonna want to be on the cruise you're gonna want to be at the debate and Obviously, I also know that there are some who have little children. I don't think you're left out on this one.

If you come to the conference stay at the hotel come to the debate the conference. Even if you can't take little kitties on on the cruise. There's lots of stuff to do there in Orlando as well. So don't feel like you're just always left out because well, you know.

It's that time you got the little kids and you don't want to can't really do the cruise thing right now. They're not quite big enough. But you know, there's this there's there's stuff to do. There's lots and lots of ways to make this work out so we are very very excited about this and we will be speaking much more of it in the future, of course and I'll be getting the specific topics that each of the gentleman will be addressing.

Fairly soon here. I wanted to wait till after the holidays because they're probably busy right now but and early next year. Up to about midpoint next year is when I'll be writing the book itself. And I've already got the outlines put together and have done some work on it.

But the actual the actual Writing itself will be coming up at that particular point in time. So there's the big announcement. Thank you for joining it for us. We're not signing off now. However, I still have Something to play for.

Bart Ehrman, Textual Criticism, and Early Christian Diversity

I'm gonna play you a little clip from John Shelby spong and we'll take a break and if you'd like to Comment. I see a Phone line lit up. I don't know what it is, but I see a phone line lit up and I'm not sure if that's call or just just what is if you'd like to comment on that.

Oh, all right. We will take our phone call, but I also like to play for you. I've got some more Bart Ehrman stuff queued up, but I want to play a section from the White Horse Inn. I don't think they would mind if I played just a brief section of an interview that Mike Horton did With John Shelby spong give you some some background a little bit of a of a taste of where we're going to be going.

When we have the opportunity of engaging this debate. So here is John Shelby spong and his own religious background in his own words.

I was raised in the south in the Bible Belt as an evangelical Fundamentalist. I was taught that every word of the Bible was the Word of God. The Bible was used to justify the segregation of my region.

It was used to justify treating women as not fully human. It was justified to enable me to hate other religions and Jews particularly with impunity and it was used to justify Oppression of gay and lesbian people that it defined as either mentally sick or morally depraved.

And it is also, you know If you look back in history The Bible was used to condemn Galileo and to demonstrate that the earth was the center of the universe and so on you go through History. My difficulty with the Bible is not that I don't love it I spend time with it every day of my life, but the Bible particularly the Gospels indeed all of the Bible.

But I'm thinking particularly about the Gospels are written inside the worldview of the first century that is not the worldview that I live in. And If I can't separate the essence of the Bible from the frame of reference in which it is written I find it difficult to ask people to accept the Bible to 21st century people who are put off by its framework.

Well there you have that that is a that particular presentation has been a part of almost everything I've ever heard him say and the idea of divine revelation, you know, he talks about the fact he lives post Darwin.

So he just can't view man the way the Bible does well, you know, I live post the discovery of biochemistry and DNA and The fact that there is such complexity in life that that Darwin wasn't even on the right page so he really does take a very odd view as if the misuse of the scripture is somehow an argument against the scriptures if I were to take his book and Misinterpret what he said and use it as a grounds for mistreating someone.

Does that make him right? Does that make his book to be improper etc, etc. I mean it I'm sure that's all gonna be coming up in the discussion of the various texts of scripture and I can tell you right now the debate will eventually come down to in finality whether there is Whether God has spoken or not and is that not what we always find is the case no matter what which one of these groups?

We engage eventually what you get to is Whether God has spoken and whether God has spoken with clarity. Is that not what it comes down to it? I think that it is. Well, we're gonna take a break. We lost Paul in Chicago.

Paul. Give us a call back. And we'll be listening to Bart Ehrman and taking your phone calls eight seven seven seven five three three three four one. We'll be right back.

Today Many stop strong and true. What is dr. Norman Geisler warning the Christian community about in his book. Chosen, but free a new cult. Secularism. False prophecy scenarios. No, dr. Geisler is sounding the alarm about a system of beliefs commonly called Calvinism.

He insists that this belief system is theologically inconsistent Philosophically insufficient and morally repugnant. In his book the potter's freedom James White replies to dr. Geisler, but the potter's freedom is much more than just a reply.

It is a defense of the very principles upon which the Protestant Reformation was founded. Indeed it is a defense of the very gospel itself in a style that both scholars and laymen alike can appreciate.

James White masterfully counters the evidence against so-called Extreme Calvinism defines what the Reformed faith actually is and concludes that the gospel preached by the reformers is the very one taught in the pages of Scripture.

The potter's freedom a Defense of the Reformation and a rebuttal to Norman Geisler's chosen. But free you'll find it in the Reformed theology section of our bookstore at a omen Org. This portion of the dividing line has been made possible by the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church.

The Apostle Paul spoke of the importance of solemnly testifying of the gospel of the grace of God. The proclamation of God's truth is the most important element of his worship in his church. The elders and people of the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church invite you to worship with them this coming Lord's Day.

The morning Bible study begins at 930 a .m. And the worship service is at 1045. Evening services are at 630 p .m. On Sunday and the Wednesday night prayer meeting is at 7. The Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church is located at 3805 North 12th Street in Phoenix.

You can call for further information at 602 26 grace. If you're unable to attend you can still participate with your computer and real audio at prbc .org. Where the ministry extends around the world through the archives of sermons and Bible study lessons available 24 hours a day.

Under the guise of tolerance modern culture grants alternative lifestyle status to homosexuality. Even more disturbing some within the church attempt to revise and distort Christian teaching on this behavior in their book the same-sex Controversy.

James White and Jeff Neal write for all who want to better understand the Bible's teaching on the subject. Explaining and defending the foundational Bible passages that deal with homosexuality including Genesis Leviticus and Romans.

Expanding on these scriptures they refute the revisionist arguments including the claim that Christians today need not adhere to the law. In a straightforward and loving manner. They appeal to those caught up in a homosexual lifestyle to repent and to return to God's plan for his people.

The same-sex controversy. Defending and clarifying the Bible's message about homosexuality. Get your copy in the bookstore at a omen or how the pilgrims progress. It's not an easy way. It's a journey.

And welcome back to the dividing line we've made the big announcements if you're just now tuning in May of 2006 should be Raleigh Biola. Hey, this is sort of nice when you think about Biola. West Coast Orlando November 3rd 2006 John Shelby Spong East Coast so we're sort of covering everything here and.

And then we're gonna be in the middle in April. I'm gonna be I think it's in Kansas or Missouri Sedalia, Missouri in in April Salt Lake Lord willing the week before that in the middle of April. So we're sort of spreading spreading the coast to coast.

That's not talking about that. We are definitely covering everything here in in the process, so That's very exciting. Yeah, but let me tell you something folks 2006 is gonna be I Want to use term stressful, you know, that's like that's like looking at the Apostle Paul and saying well Nepal.

Do you really want to go toward Rome? It might be stressful. Yeah, that's way too modernist but There's a lot of stuff to do for a little ministry like ours, especially when we're moving our offices as I've mentioned on my blog and Moving is not easy and it's that is very stressful because you know things aren't working the way they're supposed to work and you got to get them set up and you got to build things and install things and you know how that is and moving a library is just stressful just something on your back and.

So we've got that going on and I'm spending half of February in the United Kingdom I'm very much looking forward to that, but I'm gonna be gone during that period of time and we're looking at minimally.

Minimally, let's say a bunch of the debates that haven't been nailed down yet fall through. Minimally, I'm looking at Let's see one two three four five debates absolutely at the at the least five debates in 2006 on a very wide variety of things and possibly as many as seven.

There are two that haven't been or maybe three actually could be as many as eight and I think about it Wow. Lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of stuff going on. So we are we are taking a big a big bite Out of the apologetic task here shall we say because obviously these debates then are mp3.

They are put on CD. They are put on a DVD and That takes a tremendous amount of time and effort on somebody else's part I think it takes longer on somebody else's part than well, I was gonna say than me to prepare for it but that's not true on some of them anyways, and they are going to be Made available for years and years down the line and when I travel people will talk to me about how a debate that I did 12 years ago or a series I did 12 years ago had very much helped them and that's that's that's why we do all this stuff and This will put me if I do five Debates this year that'll put me I think somewhere around 62 or 63 debates that we've done and almost all of those are available in some form from us some of them in lesser full form than another but What a tremendous opportunity since we started as I think about the our first our first tape production machine was a Ghetto blaster is what they used to call them.