Apologia Radio: LIVE From The FLF Conference

Because you did YOLO. He's a big cab.

In 5, 4, 3... Non -rockabotas must stop! I don't wanna rock the boat,

I wanna sink it! Are you gonna bark all day, little doggie?

Or are you gonna bite? We're being delusional. Delusional, yeah. Delusional's okay in your worldview.

I'm an animal. You don't chastise chickens for being delusional. You don't chastise pigs for being delusional. So you calling me delusional using your worldview is perfectly okay.

It doesn't really hurt. What? What? Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men.

The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men, lauding them for their courage.

Going to all the world to make disciples. Not going to the world to make buddies. Not to make broses. Right. Don't go in the world to make homies.

Right. Disciples. I got a bit of a jiggle neck. That's a joke, pastor.

When we have the real message of truth, we cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not.

Woe to those who decree iniquitous decrees, and the writers who keep writing oppression to turn aside the needy from justice and to rob the poor of my people of their right, that widows may be their spoil, and that they make the fatherless their prey.

What will you do on the day of punishment in the ruin that will come from afar? To whom will you flee for help, and where will you leave your wealth?

What's up, guys? Welcome back to another episode of Apologia Radio. This is Apologia Radio, the gospel heard around the world.

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He's in the background right now. That's David Bonson right now. Hey, this is like, it's deep. We're such good friends.

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Bonson family. We have that for you, for free, at ApologiaStudios .com. Go there to get it as soon as you can.

Sign up for all access, make everything we do possible. So, here we go. I'm the ninja, that's the bear.

What up? That's the girl. Hello. And that's Darren Doan. Right here. Doan it. Let's go.

Did you know I actually went to the Bonson Theological Seminary? Did you go to Bonson too? Did you? Yeah, me too. Back in the day.

Back in the day, baby. That's right. The SCCCCCCCCS something. There were so many

C's in the Southern California something. Yeah, Southern California Christian Center for Southern Studies. You know it.

Yeah, that's right. There's a lot of C's in the middle. It was Bonson Theological Seminary, and then it was Christ Theological Seminary, and then it sort of disappeared.

And now it's basically, you have it. We're bringing it back, baby. Which is so cool. We're bringing it back. And so, yeah.

And you came to Christ because of David Bonson. I came to Christ because of David Bonson. That man behind us, man. Full circle. That Bonson family.

Crazy. That Bonson family. Through punk rock, Christian punk rock subculture, and here we are at the

Fight, Laugh, Feast event, which is basically just the next level punk rock, Christian type periodism as David Bonson.

It actually really is a really weird full circle thing that's happening. That's right. So, we're here at the

Fight, Laugh, Feast conference. It is called the Politics of Sex Conference.

You can still say sex on YouTube and Facebook and Twitter and everything else because they really enjoy that.

For now. For now. There's a lot of other things that you can't say right now, like Iver. And just know that as we do this, literally

YouTube is reading and Facebook reads or listens to what you're saying. I'm waiting for it to read our shirt and just shut us down.

Woke is broke. Woke is broke. Maybe they'll see me in a collared shirt and think something's wrong. Yeah, they'll be like, something's up.

Something's up. I bought two collared shirts, and I've worn them at this event. I was in Costco, and I was just walking by, and I saw these

Greg Norman. I thought, I wonder if I could pull those off. And so I just bought them. You do it quite well.

Thank you, appreciate that. So I have not worn a collared shirt in probably, I don't know when the last time I wore it.

Maybe my wedding. I knew there was something different. My wife tried to get me to buy a shirt just like that. No way.

Just two days ago, and I said, babe, I'm not old enough yet. You said, babe, I'm not Darren Doan. Yeah. Again.

I'm not doing that. I'm not de -wanding that. De -wanding that. So here we are,

Fight, Laugh, Feast conference. And you're not speaking. I'm not speaking. I'm going to have to talk about our amicus brief before the

Supreme Court, which, by the way, if, hey, actually, let me see here. Carmen, can you grab my bag right there for me real fast?

I want to show everybody something. If you haven't heard, we participated in filing an amicus brief at the

Supreme Court. Thank you. This is Isaac, everyone. You know Isaac. You know his voice. What's that word,

Jeff, you're saying? Is it amicus? It's amicus. He was asking. I hear everyone saying it differently.

I know. I'm not an attorney. Amicus sounds more Latin, kind of Christian -y, homeschooling. Yeah. You guys got that amicus?

That's right. I think amicus has a table here at Fight, Laugh, Feast. Yes. So amicus.

Good people. There you go. I don't know what it stands for. Amicus. Amicus brief filed at the

Supreme Court. If you don't know about this yet, you should get to know it and let everybody know. This is wholly unique.

It has not been done yet. So this is in reference to Roe v. Wade. We're trying to criminalize and abolish abortion at the state level.

We're trying to do that, of course, establish justice, oppose iniquitous decrees like Isaiah 10 says.

But this was filed by our attorney friend, Bradley Pierce, and a number of other ministries and organizations.

Abolish abortion, abolish abortion taxes, action for life, free the states, rescue those, Operation Save America, end abortion now.

This is – I treasure this. I really, really do. I'm going to put this actually in a frame for us in the studio.

This is a brief sent to the Supreme Court calling the Supreme Court to repentance of sin, calling them to obey

Jesus Christ. And it's amazing. This is my favorite part of the whole thing here.

When it lists at the beginning the, let's see here, the authority.

See, table of authorities. So this is the amicus brief at the Supreme Court right now. Again, sent in by a number of organizations and ministries.

Bradley Pierce did this for us. Table of authorities. The very first thing you see under table of authorities is the

Holy Bible, the Word of God. And so there's a number of different verses listed there, some constitutional provisions, some cases.

And if you read this amicus brief, you will see that this is done in a very different way than, say, the pro -life industry would typically do it.

It is acknowledging the kingship, the lordship of Jesus Christ, and it is confronting the

Supreme Court for their wicked decree. And it tells them to immediately, of course, do away with their decision of Roe.

Here's the thing. We could care less if the Supreme Court ultimately does away with Roe v. Wade. Roe does not create law in our country.

We don't believe in judicial supremacy. We believe in the Constitution of the United States of America. Thank you, Puritans. Thank you, Christians who gave us all of that.

Lex Rex. Not the other way around. It's not the king who has law. It's the law that is king.

Can I ruin the whole show? Yeah, yeah. Ruin it. Because obviously I just barged in on the show. No, it's okay.

And we haven't talked about anything. So I'm not trying to throw like a, you know, I really have a question.

Yeah. And I'd love to have something kind of maybe articulated if you guys are comfortable with that. Mm -hmm. I don't.

I'm so in the dark on what the argument is over the incremental and the abolitionist.

Can someone educate me on where this seems to be a division amongst Christians right now? I'm so glad you asked that.

No, I'm serious. I have no idea what's going on. So we just did a two -hour at least podcast.

Help me out. What are you guys? We are Christians. Christians fighting for abolition. We're just fighting this as the church with the word of God as the foundation.

And so we do want to see the criminalization or the end or the abolition of abortion. Our contention is that the pro -life industry, not pro -life people who are typically like you and I, Christians who say that's our team, right?

We're for life. Sure. They're for death. We're for life. Our contention is that the pro -life industry is neutral.

They specifically say that they are not Christian. They specifically say that they do not want this to be about the word of God as the authority.

They specifically do not want to call it murder. And this is the dirty little secret of the pro -life industry. And this is really, really important.

This is probably one of the key issues is the pro -life industry does not, does not want abortion to be seen as a criminal act by the mother or the father.

They are not fighting for that. They do not want that. They don't want you to say that she's guilty of murder. They believe that mother and baby are both equally victims in the issue of abortion.

And so when you see the pro -life industry fighting against abortion over the last 50 years, they're doing it from a neutral perspective without allegiance to Christ.

And they're doing it in a way where they say, well, we'll do this incrementally.

Now, here's the problem. They believe that Roe versus Wade, they act as though Roe versus Wade is law. Okay. It's not.

And one of the things that's really a treasure for us over the last week and a half, Darren, is that Saki in the last week and a half, when the issue of the

Texas law came up, the White House briefing, she said that when she was saying, this is

Biden's answer to Texas, that we want to, as he said in the campaign, we want to codify

Roe as law because Roe is not law. They want to make Roe law. What is it?

It's a court opinion. It's a court opinion. It's a court opinion. It's a fallacious court opinion. When it says things like, for example, what's in the womb is potential human life.

Knock down. Drag out. You're done. You're over. So what is a law versus an opinion?

Congress creates laws. Congress creates laws. So as an example, these are great questions. I feel like we could insert that school rock.

No, I'm learning. The Supreme Court gives an opinion, right? Okay. This is what we think.

Right. Now, the Supreme Court has been rejected by states throughout our history. They give an opinion, and the states say, go pound sand.

Right. We reject your opinion. It's not constitutional. So Roe v. Wade is not law.

It's not law. It's a court opinion, and here's what's important. States like Idaho, your state, and my state,

Arizona, until fairly recently because the pro -life industry decriminalized abortion in my state this year, we had laws that called abortion homicide, that said it was a crime.

And when the Supreme Court gave their opinion, if the states were going to agree with Roe, they were supposed to adjust their legislation, their books, to come into conformity with Roe.

Would that then be a states' rights issue? If the state then decides to agree with the opinion, then it becomes law at a state level.

At a state level. So Arizona has had a criminal sanction against abortion for both the mother and the doctor throughout the duration of Roe v.

Wade, and it wasn't until this year when we tried to criminalize abortion that the pro -life industry in my state actually removed the law criminalizing abortion for the mother.

Are they incrementalists? Who? The pro -life movement you're talking about? When we talk about incrementalists, we mean in terms of what they say.

These are good questions, Darren. What they say is that we are going to chunk away at the issue of abortion incrementally because the assumption is

Roe did something. Roe is law. Right. Psaki doesn't think so, Biden doesn't think so, but the pro -life industry thinks so.

Okay. And what they say is, well, let's just sort of chip away at it. So I'll give you an example.

We put in a bill for equal protection to criminalize abortion this year in January. The pro -life industry told the legislators in my state, don't vote for that bill.

Got it. And what they did was they said, vote for this bill. And in their bill, their incremental steps were, number one, you are not allowed to kill your child on abortion for the express reason of it having a genetic abnormality.

Right. Now, there's a way around that. It's a piece of cake, and they know this. I brought it to their attention. All a mother has to say in Arizona with that ridiculous law is,

I'm not killing it because it has Down syndrome. I'm killing it because I hate it. And you can still kill your baby in my state. Okay.

So they also said you have to give your baby a proper burial. It's not that you have to attend a funeral. It means you got to pay

Planned Parenthood a fee to do away with the remains of the baby you've killed. Right. Which for them would be double dipping.

Yeah. I mean, in a way, right? Yeah. So incrementalism, they will celebrate that.

They'll say, I'll give you another one. Just last year, one of the states said pro -life industry groups celebrated a victory, and they said, well, check out this victorious bill we wrote.

You can no longer kill your baby in our state with sharp instruments. So imagine fighting during the time of, say, slavery, and you said, well, this is an unjust thing.

God calls it wicked. He says you deserve to die for it, man stealing and enslaving somebody. So let's do away with maiming your slaves with anything sharp.

You can still use any clubs or fists that you like, but no more maiming them with anything sharp.

I don't think any Christian would be on board with that, but that's the kind of thing that they do incrementally. What we say is this is a foundational issue.

The word of God is authoritative. It defines what's in the womb. So in terms of a heartbeat bill, number one, it's ineffective because they can easily get around it.

Ultrasound techs that work for the killer have a hard time finding heartbeats. The next thing is it takes away the role of the state, according to God's word, to do the punishing of the criminal, and it puts it into the hands of the citizens to file lawsuits.

It's a $10 ,000 lawsuit penalty for killing your child. So you don't like this bill?

No, because it forces me as a Christian to abandon my commitments to the word of God, which says that God forms life and you are a human from conception.

What makes you human is the unique creation of God by God formed in the womb, not a heartbeat.

But is this the distinction? Because what was the whole flare -up with, like, you know, I'm trying to think where you had.

I mean, because weren't people calling Doug Wilson an incrementalist? Yeah, he calls himself a smash -mouth incrementalist.

I'd love to talk to Doug. What does that mean to you, though? He's right over there. We should grab him. What does that mean? Well, what he means is he's fully committed to what we are in terms of God defining.

Sure, I would know that. We're exactly the same page. But he thinks that it's okay to accept some of these incremental steps to get to the end.

I think it's an abandonment of a lot of biblical principles. It's an abandonment, ultimately, of how the law works in our country.

And, you know, Doug thinks I'm wrong on things. I think this is a blind spot or a gap in his thinking just a bit.

Because if we were sitting down, Doug and I, over a bourbon, we would be 100 % on the same page.

Sure, the definition, what's at stake, all that. Exactly, exactly. And so I think that there's some areas where Christians who are fully consistent just don't know this world as well as someone who has sort of stepped into it and talked to them and listened to them reason.

Like, for example, the key issue. The key issue is that dirty little secret of the pro -life industry.

Sure. Where they say, she's not a murderer, she's not guilty of anything, she's a victim. Right. That now robs us of the ability to preach the gospel to the woman.

Is that category potentially there, though? Which category? I mean, clearly, you do have people who, for lack of a better word, have been brainwashed in regards to what all this is.

Well, I would say that there are some women that I would call a victim in this.

Right. And that is few and far between, less than. But you would make a category for, there's got to be those people.

Like the sex trafficking victim. 100%. The pimp forces her to kill her baby. She's trying to fight against it, and he forces her into it.

In that category. And continues doing it. She's been trained. Right. That's an exception to the rule. Right.

But the thing, too, that people forget is, just like any other crime, especially if it's murder, it would have to go to trial.

So that woman would have, if she's truly innocent, she'd have an opportunity to prove herself to be innocent. Right. Because wouldn't we say from just a cultural standpoint, a public standpoint, the way kids have been raised from an evolutionary standpoint, what they're told, what their body is, what's in their body.

I mean, it makes perfect sense, just get rid of the cyst. I mean, I would think from just the majority of how people are thinking, not do they know something in their heart, do they know what's wrong, is it stamped in their soul and their

DNA. I'm not saying that, but it would seem like at some level, though, there's got to be that category. Again, I've never talked to you guys about this.

No, no, it's good. No, it's a good question. So one of the things that was a shock to us, Darren, because we're not the experts in this field.

I haven't been doing this. Scott Klusendorf is, right? No. That's twice this weekend that names come up.

Well, you guys were the first people I ever heard bag on Scott, and I was, as a Christian, I used to go around following Scott, following Gray Kulkal, J .P.

Moore, all these guys, and Scott was like a beast. Yeah, Scott Klusendorf has got some really fantastic – Back in the day, the dude was a beast.

He's got some fantastic arguments, like the sled argument. Oh, unbelievable, yeah. It's phenomenal. Right. Scott has some great arguments.

I have no problem with that. But in terms of his fundamental commitments as to what's really wrong and how we actually face this down as a church,

I think that he's compromised in ways that do damage to our witness. Right. When I heard you say that,

I was like, ooh. Now, obviously, I like when someone challenges everything you thought you knew. You're like, oh, well,

I've had that plenty of times, and it's usually pretty cool when someone does that. We love Scott. He's not fond of us.

Right. Let's put it that way. Well, are things worse right now? Because let's say that Scott Klusendorf and the incrementalists, let's say they've had the majority of the influence thus far on the pro -life movement.

Are we better today than we were 40 years ago in regards to the progress? That's a great question.

I think that we are so much better in the last 10 years. And do you think that's because of the quote -unquote incrementalists, or do you think because of what

I would call in a rough conversation here kind of the hardcore, no, we don't give up any room here?

I would say, I would define it this way. It's because the church particularly, now there's giants around here that deserve to be called heroes in God's hall of fame.

They've been doing this much longer than us and are much better people to be doing this, if you ask me, than us. However, I think they've been working for the last generation, but the last 10 years specifically, you've had a move of the church approaching this issue with the gospel at the front, saying no compromise, the

Word of God defines us. And then, check this out, Darren, in just 2021, we have

Arizona, Oklahoma, Texas, South Carolina, Pennsylvania, and we're working on Louisiana and Florida right now.

Bills of equal protection, criminalization, abolition in the legislature submitted.

Wow. Right? That's one year. Right. That is unheard of in all the time since Roe, and that's not because we've invented some new, cool, really neat strategy.

Fancy way. Things are really working out for us. We have the most limited budget compared to the pro -life industry. This is because Christians have literally been going to the legislators saying,

God commands you to establish justice. You need to repent of this. You need to be consistent. And they're doing it because Christians are literally going to them saying, do this to honor

Jesus. Well, you really flipped me on that when I saw that video years ago, whenever you said that.

It wasn't that long. I don't know, maybe two or three years ago, maybe four years max when I heard you say, here's why

I'm not down with Klusendorf. And I was like, what's he talking about? But what hit me was I remember I hadn't had this conversation with somebody in a long time, but a few years before that moment,

I remember going through SLED argument, all that stuff. And then someone said to me, I know, and I'm fine with killing it.

Right. And that's actually the new argument. And that was like five, six years ago.

And I was like, well, this must be an anomaly because no one's really going to say that.

And then now it really has become, and I think you were really prophetic in seeing that, much like you look at the

Vantillas of the world who are looking at even just a simple apologetic method saying, if you keep being an evidentialist, it's going to end up with X, Y, and you're like, come on, dude, stop it.

You're talking about someone being an evidentialist is going to somehow end with the reformed churches.

And then it did. Right. Right. So you pointed out that I thought was really prophetic because that is the argument now.

And then where do you go? Like, Oh, I guess we're back to the law. You need to repent of your sin. God. Yeah.

This is now we're back to murder. Oh yeah. Well you, and that really, I was like, well, I didn't know we were here.

I'm thankful for you guys really being, you know, you sort of go through your apologetic cycles of where you're at in your life, what you're doing, all that.

And you can be kind of up to up to date on certain things. Right. And I was really not up to date.

I'd seen a little moment of that, but I thought I just met someone mean who was like, well,

I don't get it. Yeah. This is now the dialogue. Well, that's, that's my answer to your question. Long way around, but that's it.

That's the thing that was shocking to us when we got into this was we would go to the abortion mills and engage with them.

And these mothers are going in saying that they know it's a baby. They have a right to kill their baby. No one's going in there.

And sled goes out. You're like, yeah, but let's talk about the size. And let's start. And they're like, no, I've already get, I've already granted you all that.

I already know it's my baby and I have the right to kill my baby. I'm going to do it anyway. I can't get my baby up for adoption.

And they walk inside and kill their baby. One of the things I say often is that every mother who goes into a planned parenthood knows what she's about to do.

And the irrefutable proof is that she's going into planned parenthood. If she doesn't know what it is and leave it alone.

Right. Don't touch it. What happens? You know what happens. Right. It's a baby. Right. And these mothers know it.

And the deepest part of their being, of course there's always self -deception and there's suppressing of the truth of God and unrighteousness, but they know.

And our role is not to go in with arguments around the edges, but try to make this about the gospel so that she can come to Christ.

Right. So we're doing just that. Bring the law of God to bear on the person who's in front of us so we can call them to Christ.

Do you know, Darren, I'll say this one thing. This issue for me. Yeah. If you want to say like, bring it down to the brass tacks.

This issue for me, if you're a presuppositional apologist. Right. You have to be a quote -unquote abolitionist to be consistent.

Right. Because the same arguments we use to demonstrate the necessity of presuppositional apologetics philosophically and methodologically are the same things necessary when you talk about the issue of this debate, this fight with abortion.

Am I going to yield and grant neutral ground? Right. Am I going to pretend neutrality or am

I going to stay consistent with the foundation of the revelation of God the whole way through? And that's why

I'll say if Texas passes a heartbeat bill, which National Rights and Life didn't want to do years ago, and they resisted our bill for equal protection, if they pass that bill,

I will say, hey, praise God that he strikes straight blows with a crooked stick. This is my question because let's bring this back to Trump.

I remember talking to Doug before the election, you know, and Doug was not going to vote for Trump, right, you know.

And I said, so when you wake up tomorrow morning and Trump is president, are you going to be happy?

And he said, well, yeah. So you're not going to vote for him. But when you wake up tomorrow and it's not

Hillary Clinton, are you going to be pumped up? He's like, I'm going to be, yeah. Seems like, so you beat me to the punch because if they pass that, you didn't vote for it.

But I got a feeling you're going to be pretty stoked. And once people start suing people over this and causing a little fire over this,

I would imagine you'd be a little happy. I'll be thankful for, in God's perfect knowledge, what he knows of any child that's been saved as a result of something like this.

Sure. But that's God striking a straight blow with a crooked stick. So, for example, same situation, if William Lane Craig says he's not certain

God exists with Lawrence Krauss, and if he says, I'm not here to defend the biblical God.

Which, by the way, I think Sproul technically said, too, in that debate with Bonson. Because, yeah, he had to be inconsistent.

Sproul, in the debate with Bonson, he went back and forth between 99 .9999999 % of certainty of something.

He went back and forth between a Reformed theologian to a skeptic. It was really interesting to see. And that's how you see the wheels fall off.

When I'm being inconsistent, the wheels are going to fall off and you'll spot it. But if William Lane Craig says,

I'm not here to defend the God of the Bible at all, just general theism, and someone down the line says, hey,

I actually came to Christ because I was listening to Dr. William Lane Craig give an historical defense of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

So I really appreciate that. I'll say, hey, God strikes straight blows with crooked sticks, but William Lane Craig is a crooked stick.

Right. Because he specifically tells people, I'm not trying to defend

Jesus. And he's kind of an awkward dude. He's kind of cute in one sense, but he's kind of an awkward dude.

I remember I was somewhere and I could not figure out his outfit. He had the wackiest outfit with cowboy boots on, and one pant was tucked in and one was out of the cowboy boots.

I just didn't think William Lane Craig was going to walk around wearing cowboy boots. Talk about an inconsistency.

Talk about an inconsistency. It's your show, though, so I'm just here.

As opposed to Costco. All right, let's do something fun for everyone who's watching right now. Again, everybody, we are at the

Fight, Laugh, Feast conference. We are at the Politics of Sex conference. We've got Doug Wilson here. We've got Darren Doan.

We've got Gary DeMar. David Bonson. We've got Vody Balcom. And it's great.

It's great to be here. Don't forget to go to apologiastudios .com to get more content. Sign up for all access.

Make everything we do possible. Fun time now. Darren, tell us a story. You guys may have seen, and make sure you do,

Collision. Through New Eyes in the new series. I love it. Through New Eyes.

I pretty much made it for you guys. I made Through New Eyes for you guys. Thank you. So, go to get the Canon app to see

Collision Through New Eyes. If you haven't seen the movie Collision, go tonight and watch it on Prime.

Is it on Prime? No, it's off Prime now. It's only on the Canon app. Or, if you go to Facebook, on the

Post Mill Studios, I left it there as a little secret spot. Sweet. So, if you don't want to go to the Canon app, and if you don't want to watch the exclusive piece, we did drop over on Apology as well, find

Post Mill Studios on Facebook, and you can watch the whole movie. Okay. So, you guys may know

Darren Doan is a filmmaker. He's excellent. We love his stuff. You have some stories.

I do. I do, and I was listening to the intro, because I think it's like, what? Have you cut it down from 19 minutes yet on that intro, the

Apology intro? I mean. It's a long way. It's a long way. I always catch myself, like, really getting into it, like halfway through.

Then I'm like, wait, is this the end? I feel like I'm watching a movie. I'm like, and then Joy shows up, and I know we're almost done.

I'm like, oh, Joy's. Okay. Okay. Yeah. But you've got Michael Madsen in there, and you've got Mr. Blonde.

He's doing his quote from Mr. Blonde. You're going to bark all day, little doggy. You're going to bite. And I was making a movie at one point, and one of the investors said, hey, why don't you put

Michael Madsen in this movie? I know Michael. That would be amazing to put Michael in this movie.

And he said, well, we're making another movie up in the desert. Why don't you drive out and meet him? So I went with my dad. Me and my dad drove out there, and there was this big

Airstream, you know, thing, and walked to the Airstream, opened up the

Airstream. It was all leather zebra -like print all within the Airstream, and walked in.

And I was supposed to hang out with Madsen and kind of give him the pitch on why he should be in this movie.

And I introduced my dad to him, and then he said to my dad, you know, Bill, are you in the industry?

And my dad goes, oh, yeah. I started telling his story, and they kind of went and sat down, and I went and sat in the corner. And they talked for like two hours in the corner about John Wayne and Sam Peckinpah and all these great movies and David Fincher and all the stuff my dad had worked on, doing special effects, and like two hours,

I'm in the corner. And they talked for two hours. And they get done talking like, oh, Bill.

They get done, and he looks over at me, and Madsen is Madsen.

And he goes, I don't know much about this movie, but you know what, kid? I like your dad, so I'll do it.

That's amazing. That was it. And then we made a movie. That's awesome. That's amazing.

That's my Michael Madsen story. I love it. Does he live in a zebra Airstream in the middle of nowhere? When he does movies, that's his trailer.

So he has that brought out, and then he hangs out. I was going to say, it's not much different than Kill Bill, then, when he played Bud. Well, and I'm trying to line up on the

Kill Bill thing when the movie was made because I'm pretty sure. So the movie we made, he showed up on the first day.

This gets a little funnier story. But first day, and you get these sides on a movie set. So they're about this size, and it's the script, and it's just the actors' lines, right?

So they can put it in their back pocket. They can pull it out. They can look. And it was like a four, five, I don't know why

I wrote some crazy monologue. And it was like seven, eight pages of monologuing. And he was going to give this story about he knew the guy behind the grassy knoll who took the shot,

Carcano, the gun, and it was just a crazy scene. And so I walk onto his trailer on the first day, and it smelled like he'd been drinking.

It's in the morning, and it's a little boozy, right? And I said, Hey, Michael, did you get the sides?

He goes, Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I go, Because, you know, it's like we can break it up. I know it's like a six -page monologue.

Oh, no, I'm good. Do I have the sides? I go, Yeah, they're in your back pocket.

Oh, yeah. Okay. I'm like,

There's no way we're doing this. And so we get on the set, round table, a bunch of assassins, kind of pre -John

Wick. It's a bunch of assassins that are coming to kill an assassin. And he sits down.

Everyone gets all the cameras ready. And I'm like, Okay, Michael, here we go. And action. And he goes,

Hold on. And he goes out, and he brings a white hat back. And I think the white hat is the one he carried on over into kill. Billy goes, I found this hat on the way out.

I think my character should have this hat. He puts the white cowboy hat on. He's like, All right. Set the cameras up.

And action. And he starts. And he starts, and he blows through seven pages of monologue.

And doesn't miss a beat. Nails every word. And it ends.

And I go, Cut. I go, Michael. And he goes,

Shh, shh, shh. Okay. And I look at him.

He goes, Okay. And he just starts busting up. And he goes,

Let me tell you a story. My first film with Harvey Keitel, we do this scene.

I'm so excited to work with Harvey. And we do this scene. And we do it in one take. And it ends. And I can't believe how good it is.

And I looked at Harvey. And I went, Harvey. Dude, it was like a dream come true. It was amazing. And he just put his hand on my shoulder.

And he said, Okay. Okay. That's my Michael Madsen story.

I love that. That's fantastic. That's got to be our thing. That's all I got. Yeah, that's great. I love it. That's a great story.

Gary was around here. Yeah. I wonder if all his Quentin Tarantino movies prepared him for a monologue.

I thought I was moving into like an end scene, end segment. I was feeling like it was an end segment. And then you guys looked around like we're just live streaming for the next nine hours.

And I'm like, Is this an EDM event? I thought, Why are we still talking? I gave you the end. Jeff Wishes it was.

We're supposed to have. Gary was right there. He came over here. We're supposed to have dinner at 5. Is this running over, though?

They're behind, I think. It's running over. Okay. It's 4 .53. Okay. It's 4 .53. So let's do this. Let's pull

Dennis over. Dennis is behind me. He'll take my spot. He'll take my spot. He'll switch. Love you guys. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much, man, for joining us. All right, everyone. We're just getting here. We're pulling over Dennis Sarfate.

Sarfate, son. Back team. Back team. I said this at the beginning. Be in prayer for the amicus brief we filed at the

Supreme Court using the word of God as the authority against the issue of abortion and calling the

Supreme Court to repent of the injustice that they've upheld in their opinion in Roe versus Wade.

We are at the Fight Laugh Feast conference right now, this Apologia Radio, Gospel Heart around the world. Get more at ApologiaStudios .com.

Sign up for all access. Partner with us in all we do. And by the way, just to give you a quick encouraging word as Dennis gets settled here, was in Salt Lake City.

We're planning a church in Salt Lake City, Apologia, Utah. We're there for the open house. There's like 130 people present.

We're doing our first day of worship October 3rd. ApologiaUtah .com.

Is that what it is? Yep. Yeah. ApologiaUtah .com is where you go to get more information on that. While I was there, it was so encouraging to see the people who were

Mormons that came to Christ watching just one piece of content that we filmed without a plan.

We were in Salt Lake City in the province of God by accident, and we shot this thing at 1 or 1 .30

in the morning. No plan. We just went up and just shot something in the freezing cold. It's been used like a tract.

People just share it across the world. It literally is a tract now. It is. It is. It is literally a tract. That's exactly right.

Thanks to Summer, right? She put that together for us. Didn't she pull it? I think we paid somebody in the foreign country.

She definitely just spell -checked it, for sure. Yeah, for sure. Anyway, so I had a former Latter -day

Saint that is now a believer in Jesus Christ who came up to me and said that he was part of the FLDS church his whole life, so this is real

Mormonism, guys, and devout, and he saw that video. God used it to open his eyes to the truth.

He turned to Christ just watching that video that we filmed by accident with no plan, and he led his ten brothers to Christ who are also

FLDS, and he shares it all the time. So I want to let you guys know, thank you everybody who partners with us on All Access because the truth is, you did that with us because none of that actually happens without you.

So thank you guys for partnering with us. This is Dennis Sarfante -san. Hey. Dennis Sarfante.

He is... Stop right there. I can't... Now I can't stop. Say it that way. Konnichiwa. Konnichiwa. You've seen

Dennis before on Apologia Radio. Dennis is the head of Action for Life, and he is working...

I mean, this right here is as a result of Dennis's work, and the guys are working together with Dennis, and Dennis, welcome to Apologia Radio.

Thank you for having me, Jeff. Absolutely. What is on your mind right now? What do people need to do to get connected to you right now?

What is happening with Action for Life? Yeah. Takeactionforlife .org. We are working in 25 states right now.

We have bills in nine going in Pennsylvania. You'll be there with me. That's right. September 25th, we have a rally at Harrisburg Capitol.

Representative Zimmerman went ahead and put our bill in for us. He's going to represent that. We're hopefully getting into Florida soon, right?

That's right. Florida and Louisiana. Just so everyone knows, as Dennis is talking about this, we're going to be in Pennsylvania, Harrisburg September 25th, 10 .30

a .m. is the rally at the state capitol. What he's talking about going in is significant. It's not a heartbeat bill.

It's not stop using sharp tools, use chemicals. It is a bill of equal protection.

You are human from conception. All humans need to be protected equally. It's a bill of criminalization and abolition of abortion straight away.

It's better than anything you've seen in Texas that's been passed by the pro -life industry. The pro -life industry tried to kill our bill of equal protection in Texas.

They weren't interested in criminalizing abortion. They're interested in regulating it. But we're going to be in Pennsylvania 25th of this month.

Come and join us. If you are anywhere near Pennsylvania, make the drive. Come join us. We need numbers there to speak to the legislators.

Yeah. Stephanie Click, who is being heralded as the goddess right now of pro -life for getting that bill, voted no on our bill.

So she's clearly not pro -life. You have a lot of inconsistencies that are devastating.

They're devastating inconsistencies because the pro -life industry will often say, we believe that you're human from conception.

But they don't fight like that's true. They'll fight with an assumption of, well, you're human when there's a heartbeat.

How do you kill some babies and save others? Well, you know, you can ask the pro -life industry leader who gets behind a heartbeat bill like it's in Texas.

You can say, do you believe that it's human from conception, that all humans need to be protected from conception? And they'll, of course, acknowledge, yes, that's our position.

We believe you're human from conception. So you don't really believe the heartbeat bill, do you? But you passed it, didn't you?

Yeah. Why? Well, because Roe versus Wade. Well, Psaki doesn't believe that Roe versus Wade is a law. That's right.

Neither does Joe Biden. That's right. That's why they want to codify it as law. So why is the pro -life industry acting as though Roe versus Wade is a law of the land when

Joe Biden says it's not? That's right. I mean, look at it. Take marijuana. Right.

We have 38 states. I don't do that anymore. We have 38 states saying pound sand federal government.

That's exactly right. We're going to do what we want in our state. Right. Well, and it'll shortly be all 50 states. That's just what's happening.

Of course. And a nation. Like, it won't be, obviously, it'll be a state by state. But like once every single state in the country, doesn't that kind of make it a national federal type thing?

Yeah. Before you know it, that's just going to be what everyone's doing. Why not? That's right.

And the 14th Amendment in our Constitution says to protect all human life. Those are babies.

They're human lives. Why are we not protecting those in the world? Irrefutably. Irrefutably. You can't fight that anymore.

You can't fight it. Which is why the pro -aborts, we know this. They all say, I know it's a baby. I know it's human life. Don't care.

I want to be able to kill my baby. That's right. I'm sorry. Wait. Health care. I want women's health care. Yeah. Women's health care.

Except for the women that are in the womb. Except the little women in the womb. Exactly. Man, these cameras look great.

They do look good. We got some new cameras, everybody. Look at them. It's a new lighting package. It's great.

And the lighting in this place is really horrible and it still looks delicious. You know what? It's nice.

You know what lighting won't look horrible? What? ReformCon 22. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. Hey, Dennis, you want to talk to everyone about ReformCon?

ReformCon 2022. Man, is it going to be epic? Yes. We're going to have laser shows. We're going to have...

Yeah. I noticed there's a sign for a laser show. Is that... I don't know if that's part of this or not.

I don't know. I'm not sure. Well, so, okay. We want to set a standard for a

Christian conference in terms of something that's beautiful and amazing. This isn't a church service. Yeah. It's a

Christian conference. That's right. So we want to have great speakers. We want the venue to be great. and beautiful. We want the lighting to be amazing.

Why do we allow today unbelievers to take concepts from the

Christian worldview, like do everything you do to the glory of God. You want to do artistry, the most effective, most beautiful way.

Why are we letting the Egyptians steal gold from us? Yeah. I agree. God had the

Israelites leave Egypt and they were packing with them the gold from the Egyptians. Now it's the reverse.

The Egyptians are taking our stuff. Why are we going to put together media, movies, music, conferences at a lower level than the world does?

We should do better. So ReformCon, we're going to do our best to make this something that is really enjoyable for everybody. We're going to have lots of time for fellowship, lots of time for feasting.

We're going to have great, great speakers. The title of the conference is By This Standard. I'm going to check baseballs at Luke.

Yes. Well, I was talking about... By the way, you don't know this. No, no. This is the first time you've heard of this. He's unaware. I pulled you aside.

I pulled Dennis aside yesterday. I said, we want to try to address the fact that all of life is worship.

One of the things the Reformation did is it opposed Rome and what it had done is it said worship takes place over there in that church.

Right. And that priesthood, that's the guy that directs worship. He's in charge. That's the highest spiritual place.

The Reformation said, no, that's not what the word of God says. It was a priesthood of all believers and everything is worship.

All of life is worship. So we should do arts to the glory of God. We should do architecture to the glory of God.

Everything's to the glory of God. And so one thing Sandlin said in one of the videos he did for us, he said, you need to play basketball as worship to the glory of God as a

Christian. Take over that realm for the glory of Jesus. Are you saying we're going to have basketball at ReformCon? Well, so what

I said was, we were going to add elements to say, when we say by what standard, we're saying by this standard, where?

In media, in government, in school, in education, in arts, all of that.

We want to have by this standard. The word of God sets that, sets our faith out into the world and that gives us a basis to say that things should be good and true and beautiful and lovely.

So what I suggested was that Dennis should come up, because he's a baseball superstar, and Dennis should come up and Dennis should talk about his life and his witness in the area of his field.

And when this man throws a baseball, let me just say, I've said this before, I went to see him once while he was just practicing barely with the kids and teaching them and just helping out and throwing some balls.

And I'd never heard a baseball scream before. I'm going to say right now.

It's intimidating. It's very intimidating. It's very intimidating to see him throw a baseball. What I said is he should talk about that and we should have you taped to the back wall and he should throw things as hard as he can.

Why me? Things called baseballs. Yeah. Why me? Because you could do it where it's real close, right?

I could get really close. Yeah, yeah. I like, right? You should put a little match. How fast though? Like you said to me a minute ago.

Put little matchsticks in your ears and he just lights them on fire. I virtually hit some foul balls off you.

Yeah. Yeah. You did virtually hit off me. Yeah. That was awesome. That was awesome.

Not for real though. Aren't, like how fast do you, can you throw a baseball? When I was good? A hundred.

Okay, yeah. That's what I thought. So, um, I don't know if it's because I'm a woman, but I feel like someone needs to step in and say it's not great.

Just for reference, he helped me, he's like a, he's like a master at that. What would I throw a baseball at?

Like 20 miles? I don't know. 15. In what direction? They don't, they don't even measure.

They don't even measure our. Can you throw cheese balls at me? Cheese balls? I'll catch them.

Cheese balls. You could kick a baseball probably really hard. Yeah. Yeah. I, yeah. I'd like to see that off a tee.

Yeah. How far you can kick it. And see how fast it goes. If you threw the ball though, it'd break my foot for sure.

Yeah. You don't have to, I won't throw it. You just kick it off a tee. Oh, okay. So it'll break your foot, but we're still going to have them thrown at Luke.

Yeah. I don't like this game. Okay. So real fast. Now back to the conversation. Let's let's do this. And I don't know where Gary is.

A really important thing. Everybody knows it's been going on the last couple of days. Let me just say, I woke up last night at four in the morning and I woke up and instantly kind of was like into prayer mode and thinking about what happened yesterday with the

Biden regime and a resident Biden going before the country and now mandating vaccines with private employers.

Praise God. You even had a Ben Shapiro coming on today and Fox news and he talked about the fact that they're going to be suing and fighting and resisting because he has more than a hundred employees with his business.

And this, this got real serious real quick. It's been serious for the last year and a half, but this got real serious real quick because it almost seems as if the

Biden regime is focused upon the destruction of the

United States economy because making a move like this with 80 million, 80 million

American citizens who are unvaccinated, most of those people probably have already gotten a

Corona virus. And all the data shows that if you already had Corona virus, your antibodies and your ability to fight against even the variants is far

X exceeds Pfizer's vaccine. So why would you take it in the first place?

Maybe these people are like me and they're like, I've already had Corona virus. No, thank you. I beat it and I'm good. But the data is showing even that there could be some significant danger to having had

Corona virus and beat it. And then you take the vaccine itself at any rates.

80 million American citizens have said no to the vaccine or not taken it yet. And Biden is saying that he wants that we're essentially if you did you watch this thing?

Yeah. It vilified, it vilified the unvaccinated. We're the danger.

We're the reason. Yeah. We're the reason that this is all going on. And so he's essentially pitting neighbor versus neighbor, which is, of course, a clever little

Marxist tool. I've been doing that since the beginning. These are the enemies and these are the guys that are the problem.

I was shocked just to listen to it. I had to eventually turn it off like five minutes ago. I was like getting ill watching it.

But he essentially said that because of the 80 million American citizens who have been vaccinated, we're going to now mandate it.

If you've got an employer with over 100 or more employees, you're going to have to mandate vaccines or take weekly tests or whatever the case may be.

This is dangerous, dangerous territory. This is dangerous territory. This is not a discussion about the vaccine and a debate about the vaccine.

It's dangerous territory for the government to say we can stick something in you against your own will.

And we used to have a name for that. It was called rape. And we're opposed to that in some areas, but apparently not when the

Biden regime wants you to get the vaccine. The American citizens have, because of the

Christian worldview, the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. If an

American citizen constitutionally says, no, thank you, already had it, beat it, don't want the vaccine.

We have the right before God to resist. Christ is King, not Biden. Christ is

King and he rules over all and his law is supreme. And so if a Christian says, no,

I'm concerned about my family. I'm concerned about my life. I'm concerned about my health.

I am going to say no for now. I'll say no. The government has no right to tell me that you have to put this in your body, especially with something that has all the data is consistent in terms of what coronavirus does and who's in danger, 99 .9,

whatever the percentage is, survival rates, a person should be able to say, I'm concerned about future fertility.

I'm concerned about my life. I'm concerned about my children. And so I'm going to say, no, God allows me to have this realm of jurisdiction and authority.

So all that to say, if you go to Apology of Church dot com, Apology of Church dot com, one of the drop down menus has our church's response to the vaccine mandates.

And it's under resources in there. Also, you're going to have a little thing that pastors can sign.

We want to encourage you, pastors, if you don't have something written up, feel free to copy ours.

If you if you need a template, use ours. We put it up there for our church body, the protection of our church body as pastors.

But we want to welcome any pastors or churches across the country to adopt ours, pull from ours.

You don't have to cite us. None of that. Just we want to make sure the church is protected and blessed in this vitally important area.

So if you have questions about it, go to Apology of Church Church dot com. I was also going to say, if you look at it, it's actually two pages.

The second page is basically a waiver. Please have your own pastor do that and fill it out for you.

We cannot fill it out for you if you're not a member of our church. I've gotten a few of those requests. I can't vouch for you.

So if you're a member of our church, we're glad to fill it out for you individually and sign it. But please take that to your own pastor to get that signed.

That's right. Gary DeMar. Uncle Gary. American Vision. If you guys have been watching

Apologia Radio for any length of time, you know about Uncle Gary. Even the last week.

Even very recently. This is one of our favorite people in the world. I was saying to Gary yesterday, it's amazing.

Uncle Gary was our term. It was our word for Gary because he's like...

I'm the old guy. Well, not just the old guy. You're sort of like family. You brought us into this. It was your books and your teaching that changed my mind and challenged me.

And it's like family. This is sort of... We're, in a way, it's a very close connection. So Uncle Gary.

Now everybody calls him... The good uncle though. Yeah, the good uncle. Not the crazy uncle. He's the fun uncle. Depends who you talk to.

He's the fun uncle. The fun uncle. But now everybody calls him Uncle Gary, which I kind of like that. Because, yeah, he's... I don't know.

He's kind of like the godfather. He's like, you know... Yeah. Now I'm Italian too. I could pull that off.

That's right. So, Uncle Gary, how are you? What's going on? Doing well. Yeah. I'm just happy to be here, running into people whose lives have been changed by what you guys are doing.

Some of the stuff I've been doing as well. Reconnecting with some friends I haven't seen in 15 or 20 years.

So that's a good thing too as well. So what's in the front of your mind right now? Help us articulate your perspective.

What's going on even with the most recent news of Biden mandating the vaccines for employers? I'd love to hear you just talk about that.

Okay. What I see happening is it's forcing people at the political level who've talked and talked and talked to finally do something.

We're seeing... We're going to see who's on the right side of all these issues. Who are the people who are going to make a difference in the future?

The issue of what's the proper response to governmental tyranny has been debated since the time of Calvin and Luther and Rutherford and John Knox and many, many, many others.

All the literature has been written on all this. In fact, I had a three -part interview with Gary North a couple weeks ago and Gary, a little frustrated, said, it's all been written.

There's nothing else that really has to be written about all this stuff. It's all on the table. The question is, what are you going to do?

What's the action at this point? Right now, we're putting into effect,

I think, the doctrine of the lesser magistrate, which is what those people dealing with what's the proper response.

That was the solution. It wasn't a revolution. It was not pulling out your guns. You think you're going to go and kill, shoot people? We're going to win this war because we have all the guns.

It's absolute nonsense. It's dangerous. What the reformers and the people who wrote on this topic believed, that anarchy was worse than tyranny.

What we have, we have a very unique political system because built into our constitution, our

Caesar, if you will, we have the right to, number one, petition the government for a redress of grievances,

First Amendment. Number two, those powers and authority not enumerated in the constitution reside with the states, the

Tenth Amendment. What we're seeing is governors saying, nope, we're not going to go along with this federal mandate.

That's what we want to hear. What typically happens is we're picked off one at a time.

It's like the whole bundle of sticks. Take one stick and you break it, take two sticks, maybe you can break it.

You have five to 10 sticks together and you try to break that bundle, you can't do it. If these states stick together, these governors stick together, we put the national government on notice that we're following the constitution.

We're not revolutionaries. We're not secessionists. We're saying this, you've gone outside the bounds of your federal power.

And if we don't push against this, there's going to be a new mandate down the road. And it has nothing to do with COVID and people are going to get used to it.

It's time that we have to give them a legitimate reason to do it. And we have to be consistent about doing it and operate in terms of a call on the constitution.

The constitution is our guide in all of this. It's right there, right all in front of us. These governors just need to take the initiative.

Let's hope they do. Yeah, I feel like we were just talking about everyone sort of abiding by something that's not a law.

It's not a law that Roe versus Wade is a Supreme Court decision. It's not a law, but everyone just kind of went along with it.

And now we're arguing over abolition versus incrementalism. And it's like, why didn't we just stop it when it happened?

Incrementalism is not an issue if we just stand up and say, this is wrong. Stay consistent. And it's not a law.

So like, I don't know, like we've just been pretending. Let's not pretend that all this stuff is a law for another 50 years like we did with abortion.

Exactly the point. Good point, Joy. Let's not pretend that Biden has the authority to do this. Yeah. And this is one of the books that we published with Greg Bonds, it's called

Pushing the Antithesis. Forcing them to live consistently with their operating assumptions while you are giving the other side of the issue, we're living consistently with ours.

We want to see where these politicians and churches and pastors are going to fall down on these issues.

Unfortunately, pastors, they don't have the slightest idea about any of these things.

And that's a good point. They haven't been trained in the way that many pastors and theologians have for centuries in terms of like a full -orbed, comprehensive

Christian worldview, areas of justice, areas of law and history, all the historical exegesis.

Our seminaries have been so dumbed down that the average pastor in the pulpit can't even tell you what this particular text in the

Old Testament in terms of the law of God meant. That's all foreign stuff to even me.

So when you say like when COVID broke and the government was saying, no, we'll tell you when you can go back to worship, we'll do this, we'll do that,

I think many pastors across North America and, of course, globally, many pastors had never even thought through like, well, what are the limits of government according to God's Word?

And it's amazing because you made the great point. This stuff's already been written. Yeah. Like we've already hashed this out and it is so comprehensive and so wonderful and so rigorous and so biblical, and many of these men had never even touched it.

They're not even aware that it exists. We've already had these debates. There's been a historical Christian tradition that's already actually brought this out in beautiful, beautiful terms consistently.

And I think I love your point, Uncle Gary, and that's just that enough's been written on this. I don't think you can improve upon it.

Let's just get to work applying it. Yeah. But here's the rub with all of this.

A lot of these pastors say, that's not our place. We're not supposed to do that. Romans 13 says there are no exceptions to authority.

And look, a lot of this has to do with, I was talking with Dennis earlier about pastors are afraid they're going to lose members.

And I always ask the question of somebody who's in a church like that, is there a mortgage on your church?

If there's a mortgage on your church, you're going to find that pastors are skittish to talk about these things because they're head counters.

They know where every dollar is coming from. And it's on the abortion issue as well. One of the reasons why a lot of pastors won't talk about abortion is there's your elders or deacons, there's probably a daughter in there who's either contemplating having an abortion or had an abortion, and this may be a pretty big business guy in town and he's got lots of money.

He sends a lot of money to the church. So this idea of follow the money, that's an aspect of this.

But there are a lot of pastors have discapitulated to the idea, you know, oh, we're not supposed

I wrote that book, Myths, Lies, and Half -Truths. Right. Jesus didn't get mixed up in politics.

Jesus said his kingdom is none of this world. Politics is dirty. The separation between church and state. You can't impose your morality on other people.

You're not supposed to judge. You go down the list with all of this and that's the system that we're living in the last days.

This has all been predicted in the Bible. I mean, COVID right now is the mark of the mark of the beast. And that's not to minimize what's taking place here because there's a principal application to Romans, to Revelation 13.

There certainly is. We don't want to dismiss that. But there's all kinds of seemingly biblical reasons why not to take this on.

Right. And this is the time to do it. So this is Gary DeMar with American Vision. If you don't know him, get to know him.

Great book, Myths, Lies, and Half -Truths. Gary's written extensively on a number of subjects that will truly bless your life.

So AmericanVision .org, AmericanVision .org, go there, get connected, support his organization, the ministry, and buy some books.

They got lots of them. God and Government, Last Days of Madness. But the most recent one was with Dr.

Bonson. Against All Oppositions. Oh, The Impossibility of the Contrary. The Impossibility of the Contrary. There you go.

Oh, yeah, yeah. It's got my tongue. Impossibility of the Contrary. Get that book, guys. You can get it at AmericanVision .org.

Yes. .org. Yeah, .org. And so go there, pick up some books. Listen, if you appreciate what you've gotten from Apologia Church and Apologia Studios over the years in terms of theology, you know,

I stand on the shoulders of giants, the men I consider heroes and the men that really shape my thinking.

It's a limited group. Dr. Bonson, of course, everyone knows that. Dr. James White, my mentor, my spiritual father in the faith, my teacher, my friend.

But Gary DeMar, I can't tell you how many countless, countless hours of my life I've been spent listening to Gary and reading his books and how many times,

Gary, you've helped me. It's funny. I don't know if anybody knows this, but oftentimes I'll get something from Luke, some text or from you and say, hey, do you have anything on this topic?

He's usually on it, too. I usually have it. Right away. And I appreciate you guys coming to me and I always tell people, look, if you ever have any questions about anything,

I'll either steer you to the place where there's an answer for it and after reading and studying that, if you still have some questions,

I'll answer them for you. I'm open. A lot of guys, you know, they're not a public figure.

I'm out there. You have any questions, come to me. If I don't know the answer, I'll find the answer for you. That's right. Such a blessing.

We love Gary. And truly, you know, it's important, I think people recognize, like God is growing his kingdom.

It's like a seed that grows into a tree. And you know, when you think about all the great blessings and benefits of what's happening here at Apologia Studios, whether it's an abortion now or against the cults or atheism, whatever the case may be, or even

I'll be honest with you, even our resistance over the last year and a half to government tyranny. I learned those biblical principles and that wisdom 20 years ago, reading and listening to Gary.

And so if you say, well, I like the fruit of this ministry and how they've responded to the government and the things that they're saying that are consistent and biblical.

I didn't make that up. I didn't get that on my own. I'm not that special. I got it from Gary. And I got it from other people.

Yeah, exactly. And so I want to encourage you guys, if you want to go to the teacher, go to Gary, get some books.

I'm going to just especially commend to you the work he's done in areas of eschatology that are actually in supreme focus at the moment.

When you think about the fact that like you're talking about, so many evangelicals today are looking at the situation around us and they're saying, well, this must be the end of the world.

It can't fall apart worse than this. This must mean that that's the beast. This is the mark of the beast. They're trying to find a way to make connections.

You need to get help on that. You need to get biblical on that. And you need to get a healthy perspective of the future that I got from Uncle Gary.

So go to AmericanVision .org and get some books, get some stuff. Gary, thank you, brother. Thanks for having me. Love you.

Thank you so much. Thank you. All right. So I think we're good. All right, everyone. Thank you for watching everyone across them internets.

This is Joy the Girl. See ya. This is Luke the Bear. Peace out. Don't forget to get your free

Bonson You account at Apologyistudios .com. Don't forget to go sign up for all access at Apologyistudios .com.

Grateful for all of you. Next thing to meet us at is September 25th, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, 1030 a .m.

at the state capitol. We're doing a rally for a bill of equal protection and criminalization at the capitol.

September 25th. Anything else going on this year? There's more stuff that we have going on. But I know we're not public.

Well, you're going to be in Dallas November, right? Yeehaw. Yes. Or six or something like that.

Somewhere around there. Beginning November. It's the pro -life is not enough conference. And we'll announce that as we get closer to the day.

Christine's over here. She's got it. Yes. It's happening sometime in November. We'll let you guys know as we get closer. We also...

Oh no, we will be in... Sorry, Louisiana. Pastor Teresa right over there. Louisiana. Our first End Abortion Now weekend,

December 5th, I believe. Right on. Well, that'll be up on our

End Abortion Now page. We'll be there. You'll be able to go get details for that. We will be in Louisiana. Alright. First week in December.