Trevor Loudon Cut Off at Culture Engagement Summit

The Conference Setting and the Alleged Mic Cutoff

Hey everyone, welcome to the Conversations That Matter podcast, I'm your host John Harris. Situation developing right now that I wanted to let you know about. It's sad to me, it just grieves my heart to see this a bit, but it's telling in some ways.

I'm hoping we're gonna get more details here soon, I'm hoping next week maybe we can get more details on this, but I was listening to a speech that my friend Trevor Loudon was giving at, the name of the conference is the Cultural Engagement Summit, Cultural Engagement Summit in Memphis, Tennessee, April 30th, today, as I'm recording this.

This all went down within like the last 20 minutes, and it's a conference for Christians, for Christians to be politically engaged, I guess, the organization putting it on is called Citizens for America, Conservative Christian Political Advocacy is their tagline, and they hosted it at Mid-America Baptist Seminary, which is not, their relationship with the Southern Baptist Convention isn't as direct as somewhere like Southern or Southeastern, but they still do have somewhat of an affiliation, kind of like I think Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary does for Liberty University.

So, there is a connection, but they don't have the same kinds of oversight and boards and stuff that like a Midwestern or a New Orleans or Southeastern, Southwestern, Southern, or Golden Gate have. Anyway, Trevor Loudon was giving a great speech, and in fact, I posted it at Conversations That Matter, this is a great speech, you know, check it out.

He was arguing that Christians who don't push back on sin, when they have the ability to stop something evil from happening and they choose not to act, that's sinful, and so he develops this point, and he starts talking about the movie, and then he starts going after Mid-America Theological Seminary, and I'll give you a little bit more background, but I want you to just hear it from him first.

This is what he said, and then I have confirmed now that his camera, the camera filming him was cut off, and so I'm getting messages actually as we speak about this, and so I'm hoping that maybe we can talk about this a little more next week, but the reason I think this is important and significant is because what we need right now is exactly what Trevor Loudon is talking about.

We need brave men, men who are not afraid, that's what he was talking about, and to specifically to call out the Marxists among them and to challenge the Marxism in their midst, even if it gets them called names and disparaged and all the rest, they need to do that because if they don't do it and they let this continue, and he says it more eloquently than I do, but this is not fair to our children, it's not, it's actually shirking the responsibility that we have to them, and it's not taking good responsibility, but it's the end of so many of the things that we love and value, and so it was just a wonderful speech in so many ways, talking about how we want to restore Christianity, and even those who aren't Christians should want that because it's a basis for really, he doesn't use this term, but public trust and treating each other with kindness, and it was, he was saying stuff, he was daring to go where so many Christians that are speaking on these topics don't go, because so many Christians don't, either they don't have the faith that that could happen or that we should strive for that goal, or they just don't think that that's what God intends, I don't know, or they just, they lack the bravery, and Trevor was really doing a good job, so this is, here's the last part of it, I'll let you hear some of what Trevor was saying until his microphone got cut off, unfortunately, or his, the camera got cut off, and then I'll give you a little bit more background as I'm even still getting updates about this, but I think what he has to say is worth hearing, and I think the fact that this message was cut short, it says something, I'm not even 100 sure about what it says yet, but there's some, something's wrong, something's wrong with this, that this would be, well, I'll let Trevor speak and then you can make a determination, and I'll give you some more thoughts on it, let's do that, so here is, here's Trevor, and here's what he was in the middle of saying.

The Testimony of Those Hurt by Church Compromise

...from my knowledge of communism, but I learned, you know, Kerry Gordon, the narrator of our movie, he has a church in Iowa, he lost his church, he lost, almost lost his church, he declared bankruptcy, because he opposed gay marriage, and the con, and the bank pulled his loan, his $3 million loan for his church, unless he apologized, well, he refused to apologize, and he rebuilt his church, the money came from other sources, Judd Saul, my director, every, he is out there, built, making these movies to get the church back on track, and the rest of the time he's over in Nigeria, with Christians in Nigeria, building self-defense units against the Muslim marauders who are slaughtering them, I, I tremble every time he goes over there, he's going to one of the most dangerous areas of the world, John Harris, wanted, just wanted to be a good Christian academic, loves the Lord, loves academia, now he's a bastion, he's out there speaking, because he's getting hundreds of people coming to him, from, from Baptist seminaries, from Campus Crusade for Christ for Crew, saying what are we going to do about this Marxism we're being taught, this is crazy stuff, we're not learning the Bible, we're learning socialism, he's out there standing against this, Bobby Lopez is in our movie, a former homosexual, transformed through Christ, saved from a homosexual lifestyle and he wants to tell his story to other Baptists, he wants to preach about this and say you can be saved too, but the Baptists now, many of them are so on board with the LGBTQ agenda and wanting to become gay friendly, that he was fired, fired, fired, fired, fired for standing up for real Christianity, this is going on folks right now, right now, we got to be honest about what is happening here folks, the churches are going to the left which is dragging society to the left and it is just a downward spiral, we cannot take back society when we're a divided house, we cannot take back those, those, the command post of, of our culture when we are divided and we're preaching Marxism in our own churches, can't be done people, we have to look at that and be very brave and courageous and call this out, now we were going to show a movie tonight folks, enemies within the church, we spent years putting this together, we raised all sorts of money, we interviewed a hundred people, many whistle blowers from churches and seminaries and bible colleges across this country, many of them were too scared to put their name to it, they would tell us information but many came on camera and many of them have suffered greatly for doing that, but they were willing to do it because they wanted to do what was right, not what was popular, so we put it out there folks and it's gone like crazy and a year ago, a few months ago we showed it in this venue and we were going to show it again tonight, a lot of people came here to see it, it's a great movie, we're very, very proud of it, it lays out the Marxism in the church, it talks about a return to real Christianity, it identifies what is fake Christianity, what's counterfeit Christianity, every church in the country needs to see this folks and we were going to see that here tonight and we paid money and we sponsored the event and a week ago we were told by the president of this institution we could no longer show it, not at all, not at all, this is a conference about taking back the culture, about freedom of speech and we were told we could not show a movie here which is about exactly those things because there are people in that movie who might be offended by this and everybody we named and we name a lot of names in this movie folks, every single one of them we went to and asked for their comment, every single one, we don't criticise anybody that we didn't come to first and not one of them would defend their position and so I went to the president of this seminary here today and asked why was this movie not allowed to be shown and I shook his hand and I was as polite as I could possibly be and all I got was well we showed it a few months ago, we don't need to show it again, that's it, that was it and then after that I parted on a handshake and after that we were told we can't show the trailer here now either, so this is what I am saying folks, we need to be very discerning and we need to realise there's a crisis in the church and that is leading to a crisis.

The Response from the Platform and the Dispute Over the Film

That's where it ended, that's where the whole thing ended right there, so I'm not even sure what to say, this is a video, someone there sent this and I'll just show you, this is I guess right after the camera got turned off, I'm not even clear on what exactly happened, whether he left the stage or they, what I'm hearing is that the audience was saying let him finish but there were I guess, I don't know if people went up there and tried to get him to go off but it was clear that he wasn't allowed to finish, so they must have cut his mic, so this is the individual who gets up there after Trevor Loudon finishes and this is what, the clip I guess of what they had to say, so I'll play this for you.

I have no connection with this institution, I'm a pastor in Southwest Florida, but I'm going to tell you something, we are brothers in Christ and when things are wrong, we do call it out and we will show charity to those who stand upon the word of God and Dr. Mike Spratlin stands upon scripture.

This is a sacred place, so I thank you for your time.

So that's what happened today and I'll give you a little background, I talked to Judd Saul the director of Enemies Within the Church a few days ago, he told me that they were told that they couldn't show Enemies Within the Church and you got to think about this, there's a lot of money spent, I mean they have to spend money on plane tickets and whoever they have staffing the table and you got to get the books there and the whole idea was they wanted to show the film and then they were told by Mid-America they can't show the film and so I said to him, have you talked to the president and he said no, but I guess he tried to call him and left a message, so I actually called the president of Mid-America and I left a message and just tried to, in a very nice way, just encourage him to reach out to the director, from what I understand that did not happen, the president hadn't done that yet and so it led to a situation in which they were told essentially that they couldn't show the film but they were never given an explanation for it and that was frustrating because you have an event that's, it's not even, the organization putting it on isn't the seminary but the seminary's hosting it and it's because the host organization doesn't want it shown, without any explanation you can't show it and that was the whole assumption behind even showing up to do this event.

You wouldn't have, in other words, I don't think they would have gone and, Judd wouldn't have had the money, he wouldn't have spent the money and sent the people there like Trevor to go to this event if they weren't able to show the movie but the other thing going on here is I guess they had a bunch of people coming to their booth today because I talked to Judd today and I said hey, by the way, any update, did you get any explanation or were you able to show the film and he said actually no, we have people coming to our booth and they're saying that they want to see the film, they're looking forward to it and they were never notified by the conference that the film wasn't going to be shown.

So not only is it the enemies within the church guys who are now going to the conference to show the film and they can't show the film so they're disappointed but now you have people coming out because they wanted to see the film and now they're disappointed.

And so it's in this context that you have Trevor say what he did and then you have this guy, I think that's Pastor Timothy Pig who got up there and defended Mid-America but his whole thing seems to be that and he looks angry about it, they're very upset, very forceful that vouching for Mid-America, vouching for the president there and then basically chiding enemies within the church, chiding Trevor, how disrespectful to come where you're a guest and to bad mouth the host.

Well, at the same time, how bad is it when you agree and you pay, it's not like you're just a guest, you're paying to go to an event where you can promote your film only to be told you can't even show the trailer for your film, let alone the film, without any explanation whatsoever.

I mean that's frustrating. So I don't know the full ins and outs of this whole thing, I don't. The reason I want to share this with you and there's a few reasons. Oh, and I should mention if I didn't before that yes, apparently people were, it was a spectacle and this is public, this is public.

People were shouting, you know, let him finish his speech and that kind of thing and I don't know how it went down but I guess Trevor was asked to leave or he left and it was clear that he had to leave because they cut off his mic or something, I don't know, I guess I'll find out.

Christian Peacemaking, Human Weakness, and Trusting the Lord

But the thing that made me want to show you this is, and it's public, so this isn't something private, it's something public that's out there at a public event, is this kind of thing happens more often than I wish it did among allegedly conservative groups, Orthodox Christian groups that see the problem with what's the direction of the SBC and evangelicalism and CRT and all that.

And oftentimes though you'll never hear about it because it doesn't go public. It stays behind closed doors, people don't say anything and this is a time when Trevor just said no, I'm gonna say something and I'm kind of glad he did, to be honest with you.

I'm kind of glad he said something at least because it is an opportunity for me to let you guys know that this kind of stuff does happen. In fact, I know about some situations even right now that they're not public but it's with people that from the outside perspective you all think that they're all on the same side, they're against CRT and stuff, but just the way that people are treated is frankly, it's shameful in my mind.

It's sad to me. I'm not gonna give details beyond that but I think it's important for those who do have a platform. Some people who listen to this podcast do have platforms apparently. I'm always reminded of that.

I forget about it sometimes then I'm reminded when someone messages me that I'm like, oh wow, you listen to this podcast. If you catch whiff of this stuff among brothers in Christ, especially, please be part of the solution.

I know the tendency is to want to, you don't want to get involved and I know there's even proverbs about that, right? Don't get involved in a conflict that's not your own. It just causes more grief and it does and sometimes that's the right move.

But in general, we do need to have more people willing to be mediators, to be voices of reason because frankly, there's a lot of immaturity out there and it is very disappointing on our side. Our side, if you can be against social justice, understanding some of the issues with that, there's a lot of problems.

And I don't say that to discourage everyone, but I say that to just encourage those who do have somewhat of a say, who can prevent some of these things, who do have relationships, please be a peacemaker in these things.

We have some real enemies. Our enemy is ultimately not even against flesh and blood, but there's some people that are flesh and blood that work for the enemy and to be all the energy wasted on quibbling with each other.

And oftentimes, I'll tell you this, especially the larger your organization gets, the bigger your platform is, the more kinds of social pressures you have on you that don't exist and some people can't handle it.

But some of those pressures bring out kind of who people are. And unfortunately, sometimes it's jealousy, it's cowardice, it's things like compromise and wanting to project an image, wanting to play to optics and fashion.

And that's one of the things that I am so, I'll be honest with you guys, you can pray for me because this is just, this is human nature, in a way to want to have the approval of men and to want to please the big donor or please the person that has the power.

These are just normal things that we've seen throughout. We have a whole Bible full of stories of this. This is what happens throughout human history. These are who people are. And I have learned a very hard lesson in the last three years.

And that is even some of the people who are heroes of mine, I realized they're men, they're men, and I'm a man. And I'm gonna disappoint you at some point too. And so, so, so keep, keep, you know, if you're a layman listening to this and you're like, well, I, this is just discouraging.

I don't know what I can do, which you can pray. And the other thing you can do is don't put your trust in horses and chariots, put your trust in the Lord. This is incredibly disappointing for me to see this.

This is mid America, like it's a seminary that I recommend it. I thought that, you know, this is a good seminary to go look at. And I didn't have a lot of knowledge, but there was some people I trusted and maybe it still is a seminary that all other things, you know, comparing it to like Southeastern or something you should look into, but I just didn't expect this.

And, and so I'm hoping to get more details. I'm hoping that more comes out that I can report good news to you next week about how things have been made right, or things have been rectified in some way, but as it stands now, this is a mess.

And in fact, as I've been recording this, I've been getting messages. And one of the messages actually from, because I immediately, I called Judd Saul just to make sure that when it was cut off, because I was like, did, did they cut that off?

Were you watching today? What happened? And then I heard that, yes, but Judd Saul apparently said that, I guess there's an effort. I think it's underway right now as I'm recording this to boot enemies within the church from the event, to get them out of the hall there where their table is, which man, that's, that's sad to me.

That's very sad to me. Such a small event too. Like it's not like it's a huge event with just, it's, you know, I don't know. I didn't, you know, from what I saw with that little camera video, it didn't seem like there were a lot of people there, but it's sad to me to see this kind of happening.

This, this shouldn't happen. And so I would just encourage you pray and, and, and know this about God that oftentimes throughout history, we see this, he uses the weak things to shame the strong. And I've seen in my opinion, where I've seen positive change, it's on the local level.

It's, it's small time pastors who are faithful, who are, you know, getting all the people fleeing the compromised churches in their areas. This has happened all over the country where I've been speaking and traveling.

I mean, I'm an example of this. I mean, I never thought that I was going to be doing this kind of thing. And this kind of organically just happened and the Lord's using me a weak person to shame the strong.

And I know that because there's people that had platform and resources and should have known better and said something and they didn't. And so the Lord's is pleased to use the weak things. And, and there's some people, you know, that you shouldn't think from this, by the way, the takeaway, isn't that there's just compromise at the higher levels in every case.

I don't think that's the case either. I'm not like cynical. I'm trying not to be there. In fact, I just got a message earlier today, Votie Bauckham is one of these guys that, I mean, look at that guy over the course of a few years, you know, recently could have run for president of the Southern Baptist Convention, but didn't want to violate his convictions on church membership.

I'm sure he's had many political offers here in the United States, but he felt like the Lord wanted him in Africa. So he, he's going, he's doing what he thinks the Lord wants him to do instead of climbing the social ranking ladder, the ladder of power.

And I respect that greatly. And there are people like him who do have big platforms, but again, you know, the Lord's, the Lord's using someone who's not even in this country to, to do so much of the work, his book and his speaking to, to shine a light on these things.

And, and I just see that that's the way the Lord gets more glory. He uses the things and the people you would not expect him to use often. And so it's, it's good for us not to trust in horses and chariots, but to trust in the Lord, our God.

And so that's one of the things I wanted to leave with you as well. So I'm hoping that I can report some good news, but this isn't looking good from where I sit right here. And it makes me, it makes me sad.

It does make me sad. And I think that's an okay emotion to have about these kinds of things. So I hate to leave it on that note, but that, that is a note I'm going to leave it on. It's it's late here.

It's Saturday night. It's well getting later, I guess. And I need to run anyway, but I just want to leave you with a quick announcement. I am going to be traveling next week. I'm actually going to do some, some filming for some last day in studio project stuff and seeing a friend graduate and looking forward to that.

So I might not have as many podcasts, but I am going to try to get a few out there for you. So more is coming soon and I have a long list of things. In fact, I've been reading a book on the history of the Southern Baptists and also a book by Greg Johnson called Still Time to Care.

So that's, I'm going to do Lord willing a full report on that book for you all, because that's, that was recently tweeted out by Tim Keller. He really liked that book. So I'm, I'm about a third into it and yeah, it's about what I expected.

So I will have a report for you, hopefully, hopefully next week, maybe the week after on that we'll see. And I still, there's an episode I've been meaning to record on how to evaluate leaders and with discernment, but also not, not being overly critical.

And I was going to use John MacArthur as my example. It may surprise some of you, but I, there are disagreements I have with John MacArthur. Imagine that. And, and with the way things, you know, the way things run at Grace Community Church and stuff, which I'm sure if I was running that church, I would be doing about a thousand times worse than John MacArthur.

So it's not, it's not a, an unfair criticism at all, but I think one of the things I've been thinking about is how to evaluate someone that you respect a lot, but also taking into account the fact that they're human, just like you are.

And, and not, so, so not delving into the hero worship on one end, which some people can get into and not also going into the other ditch with this sort of cynicism that like everything they do must be completely bad and motivated by bad motivations.

And I mean, there's some people I've met that are kind of like that, but not everyone's like that. And, and so since I have done a lot of evaluations of different Christian ministries, leaders, books, I thought this would be a very helpful episode to just walk you through my thought process and to use one of my, one of my heroes in the faith, John MacArthur, as an example of that, just because I do have some deep disagreements.

I do have some frustrations. I do, you know, I know he's human, but at the same time I can respect him. And I, and I just think it would be good. I think it'd be good for, for everyone to hear, hopefully.

But yeah, and I have a bunch of other stuff in the works that we'll get to, but God bless everyone. And I hope you have a good Lord's day tomorrow.