Steve Lawson Interview

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Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

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No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ. Based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the apostle

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Paul said, but we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

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In short, if you like smooth, watered down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn't for you.

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By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we're called by the divine trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her

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King. Here's our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth. Welcome to No Compromise Radio ministry. This is

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Mike Abendroth and I'm your host. Every day of the week, we try to do something a little bit differently. Mondays, sermons from Bethlehem Bible Church, expository preaching in the book of 1

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Corinthians. Tuesdays, we usually talk to Pastor Steve and deal with issues in the local church.

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Wednesdays, those are the days where we talk to authors and writers and those who have an influence in Christian thinking.

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Today, I have my friend and distinguished colleague, Steve Lawson on the line.

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Dr. Steve Lawson, Senior Pastor of Christ Fellowship Baptist Church in Mobile, Alabama.

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Steve, welcome to No Compromise Radio ministry. Mike, it is great to be back with you again. I've had the joy of preaching in your church.

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I've been to your church a couple of times and always enjoy the fellowship with you. Steve, I have in my hand something that you probably don't know that I have because you can't see through the radio, of course, but I have your notes to the sermon you preached here about a year and a half ago,

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Guarding the Gospel, Galatians 1, 6 -10. I have a copy of your notes here in my expository genius of John Calvin book.

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How'd that happen? Wow, maybe you got that manuscript out of the

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Benneke Library there at Yale down in the basement. I should have you probably autograph this for some kind of Chester Beatty manuscript or something.

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Well, we have Steve on the line today. He's an author, written many books, quite a few books on Reformation Trust, an excellent publishing company.

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Many of you might understand or know R .C. Sproul and Ligonier. This is an arm of the ministry of Ligonier.

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Steve, let's talk a little bit about the expository genius of John Calvin book that you wrote in a series entitled,

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A Long Line of Godly Men. Tell me why you decided to write that book and how has it been received?

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Well, I wrote that book on John Calvin. First of all, I think it can be argued that over the last 500 years, the single most influential figure upon Western civilization is

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John Calvin. He is a seminal figure that looms over the centuries and really the founding of America is in large measure the result of the influence of the ideas that were brought by the pilgrims and the early colonists to the

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New England area. And so I think he is an individual that is very worthy of our thought.

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And when we think of John Calvin, we easily think of his Institute to the

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Christian Religion and his lengthy commentary series. But what is often lost in the shuffle is the fact that John Calvin was a prolific expositor of scripture.

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He preached every Sunday twice and then every day of the week, every other week.

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And so he would preach some 10 times in the course of two weeks and preach some 4 ,000 verse -by -verse expository biblical sermons while pastoring in Geneva.

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And all of the Reformers were strong preachers, strong biblical preachers, and most of them committed to a verse -by -verse style of explaining and applying the word of God.

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So I chose to take a look at Calvin's preaching, which has not been as studied as his theology and his writings.

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And what I discovered, Mike, is that Calvin really is an example worth emulating today.

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Very relevant, very practical. And so in writing this book,

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I have been amazed, really, at the response that this book has received in encouraging this present generation to be sequential expositors, verse -by -verse, through books in the

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Bible. Well, Steve, that's a great explanation. And what I like about the book, Expository Genius of John Calvin, I like it that it would be good for laypeople as well.

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This is not just a book to give to your pastor, although that would be good, but it helps the laypeople to understand what kind of ministry they should demand and expect from the pulpit while they learn about John Calvin the preacher.

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Oh, absolutely. Those who are in the pew should require and really desire the highest form of biblical teaching.

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They cannot live their Christian lives apart from strong biblical preaching that flows from the pulpit.

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And so reading this book, really, especially for church leaders, elders, and deacons, and Sunday school teachers, and the like, but as well as just the average

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Christian, I think it would have a great impact as they would pray for their pastor and even seek out a church where the

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Word of God is truly honored, not simply in its doctrinal statement, but in its daily practice in ministering the

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Word of God. Well, in your book, Steve, on page 49, you're talking about Calvin and his adversaries.

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And we hear about how many times he preached and all the times he gave the lectures and what he did with his pen, but this was all in the middle of people hating him, insulting him.

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You'd say in the book, they nicknamed Calvin Cain, they gave his name to the dogs of the street, and they fired one night 50 shots before his bedchamber, threatened him in the pulpit, and he still, by the grace of God, was a very, very faithful writer.

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I mean, does that happen to you? Well, I think that for virtually every man who preaches the

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Word of God, and by that, I really mean the full counsel of God, not just picking and choosing certain truths, but putting your arms around the entire body of Scripture and bringing that to bear upon the life of a congregation, that will always expose in the minds and in the hearts of the listener certain areas in which they have not truly been either well -taught in Scripture or their lifestyle yielded to Scripture.

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And so it will be provocative to preach the Word of God verse by verse.

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And controversial truths taught in Scripture cannot be avoided. And there is really an altering of the listener's thoughts about God and salvation.

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And so it will always evoke a response, and it did with Calvin, and it certainly has with me as well, but that's just par for the course for any man who preaches the

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Word of God. And so there really has to be a counting of the cost to pay a high price for preaching high truth.

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And if we want to escape any resistance in our ministries, then we would just preach soft truth, but the

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Word of God is living and active and sharper than any two -edged sword, and it cuts both ways.

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And it's been well said, it both comforts the afflicted, but it afflicts the comfortable. And so as you minister the

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Word of God, you're like Nehemiah on the wall with a sword in one hand and a trowel in the other.

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And with the sword, you're fending off the enemies of God, and with the trowel, you're building up the wall and building up the people of God and the work of God.

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And so it really requires both. And yes, I have faced that, but that's just a badge of honor.

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We stand in a long line of godly men who have suffered down through the centuries, and while we do not go looking for it, it certainly will find us as we minister the

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Word of God. Well, this is Mike Ebendroth talking to Steve Lawson here on No Compromise Radio. Steve, when

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I get a new dog, I'll give you a promise. I will not name my dog Lawson. How's that? You know,

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I really kind of wish you would. I think it would be very endearing. Steve, if you could talk to some young preachers today, those who maybe want to go to seminary, are in seminary, just recently graduated from seminary, and you had to give them some advice, advice that you maybe had to learn the hard way, or advice that you think these new young bucks, this new generation needs to know, what would you tell them?

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I know it's going to have to do with preaching, but how would you exhort a young man today who's an up -and -comer?

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Well, I would exhort him to find a church in which he could preach the

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Word of God and to preach regularly, Sunday morning, and if possible,

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Sunday night, and perhaps even Wednesday night, and just immerse himself in the study and in the proclamation of the

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Word of God. I know when I graduated from seminary as a young man, I'd gone to seminary for five years and was well -taught and trained, but it really was not until I had to dig into the

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Scripture for myself and be in my study by myself and walk into a pulpit by myself and teach the

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Word of God that I really began to plow up the soil of Scripture and to extract the great truths of Scripture.

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And so I would really urge anyone to really fasten themselves to the pulpit and to preach, and to preach much, and to preach regularly.

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And the Reformers and the Puritans and those leaders of the

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Great Awakening, they were all vigorous preachers.

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They were relentless preachers. And the more you preach, the more it drives you deeper and deeper into the

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Word, and it really has to flow through you. And there's a sense of ownership of the truth as you dig it out and preach it.

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That would be one thing. And the second thing that I would really urge would be a continual study of church history to really be abreast of the great men and movements and epochs and times in which

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God moved mightily here upon the earth. I think of the Reformation. I think of the

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Golden Puritan Age. I think of the Great Awakening. I think of the modern missions movement to really understand those leading figures, the issues of the day, the doctrinal truths that they upheld, the price that they paid.

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I would urge men to be very familiar with those men and those issues.

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And I think historical theology and church history has a very strong effect upon men.

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And to read Christian biographies of these great men, I think it really elevates our game and it causes us to rise and to reach higher, to be more prolific and to be more profound and to be more precise in the pulpit.

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So that would be my second encouragement. Of course, there are many other things that could be mentioned, a life of prayer, godly living, loving your family, discipleship, pouring your life into men in the church, being a loving pastor, et cetera, et cetera.

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All those things are certainly implied, but to pour yourself into the preaching of the word and then to, on the side, study church history,

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I think is a powerful one -two combination. Well, thank you, Steve. You know, when I think of church history, especially as you and I went to Princeton and visited

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Princeton Seminary and looked around at some kind of Protestant icons and little things that we saw there to remind us of the faithfulness of God in the lives of these men, often,

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Steve, I think of B .B. Warfield. When someone comes along in the emergent church movement and they tell me about scripture and it's not really that inerrant and it's not clear and we can't know,

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I think of Warfield, for instance, and his view of scripture, and that helps me be reminded of this anchor that I hold and how

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Warfield fended off those critics and I try to stand in his backwash, in his wake, so I can do the same thing.

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So I think that's an excellent point you brought up. Yes, I agree totally with you and thank you again for taking me.

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Oh, Steve and I went to Princeton together. We've been to Yale together and that is how, basically, we get him out here because Steve Lawson has traveled the world and now speaking at the

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Shepherds Conference, Resolve Ministry, Ligonier Ministry, and so we have to make sure he understands his roots here in New England and George Whitefield and David Brainerd and Jonathan Edwards, speaking of which, you've written another book,

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The Unwavering Resolve of Jonathan Edwards. This is another book in the

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Long Line of Godly Men profile series on Reformation Trust. Let's just talk a little bit about Edwards.

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I hate to leave Calvin because he's so intriguing, but tell the listeners a little bit about this book regarding Edwards and why it would be good for laypeople and listeners of the radio station to read the book.

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Certainly. Well, first of all, Jonathan Edwards is a seminal figure as well. I mean, he's regarded as the greatest pastor

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America has ever known, the greatest preacher, the greatest theologian, the greatest philosopher, the greatest author

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America has ever known. So statements like that really underscore the importance of Edwards and his influence in colonial

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New England was really the leading influence of all the life that shone in that era.

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And Edwards, when he was a young man, 18 and 19 years old, wrote what he called his resolutions.

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They were 70 resolutions written over a period of about a year and a half, almost two years, in which he would review this document once a week for the rest of his life that would be like a moral compass for his life.

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And they really are just drawn from truths of scripture and restated as resolutions.

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Most of them begin with the word resolved, which speaks to how intentional and purposeful

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Edwards sought to live his life. He thought to be very disciplined and to be a straight arrow pointed at a designated target, which was the glory of God.

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And so as Edwards wrote these, they really have been a source of great inspiration for others who have studied the life of Edwards and have drawn from these resolutions really inspiration and motivation to live a godly and holy life.

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So that's why I wrote this book. And really to this point, other than a pamphlet by Stephen Nichols, there really has not been just a book written on these resolutions.

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So I wanted to give specific focus to these resolutions, try to put my arms around them, organize them by topics, and make them accessible to the modern day reader and easy to apply to our

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Christian lives. So that's just a little bit of why I wrote this, and I'm very glad that I have.

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Well, Steve, it's an excellent book, and my only critique is I'm the one that took you down to the Yale Beinecke Library and handed you those resolutions.

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You held them in your hand, and in the book, it says it's dedicated to two elders, Tom Gibson and Danny Chanson.

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I'm not mentioned at all. Well, great will be your reward in heaven, Mike, so on that last day.

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All right. Steve, tell me a little bit about this conception people have about his resolutions that you make mention of in the book.

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They could drive a typical person, especially a person who's in the process of maturing.

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They know they haven't arrived. They could almost make you depressed because Edward's rigorous approach to Christianity would almost destroy a typical person in an evangelical church today, and you said this.

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Edward said, how deceitful is my heart. I take up strong resolution, but how soon doth it weaken?

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And then you, Steve Lawson, said, Edward's was becoming an expert in his own inability.

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Tell our listeners a little bit about why it's important to understand our inability so that we, even as Christians, can learn to rest in, trust in Christ's perfect life and his righteousness and not in our own.

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Sure. Well, when we come to understand our own inability, the effect that it should have upon us is to drive us to greater dependence upon the grace of God.

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So the keeping of these resolutions was not a legalistic attempt by Edwards by his own sheer willpower to muster up the strength within himself to keep these resolutions, like someone today going on a diet or beginning a workout regimentation.

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Rather, he understood that he could not, in his own strength, keep these resolutions.

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The spirit is willing, the flesh is weak. And so it drove him to continually be casting himself upon the mercy of God and abiding in Christ and resting in the power of God in his life and trying to really trust in God's enabling grace through his humble submission to keep these resolutions.

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And so all of that is spelled out in a chapter that I have in the book called Prerequisite of Faith, in which

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I overview the preamble to the 70 resolutions, which is two sentences that sits on top of the 70 resolutions in which

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Edwards speaks some words that we need to hear today of the necessity of abiding in Christ and relying upon his grace that Jesus said, apart from me, you can do nothing.

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And Edwards took that to heart. And he knew that the resolutions were what

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God desired of him and that God requires extraordinary discipline and effort on our part.

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But he also understood that the keeping of those resolutions must be empowered by the empowering of the

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Lord in our own spiritual lives. So he brought up a very important part, Mike, and I would urge our readers, if they have a copy of the book, to be sure and read this chapter on the preamble to the resolutions.

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That's excellent advice. It almost reminds me, Steve, of the Ten Commandments. I ask people, what are the most important part of the

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Ten Commandments? Well, the most important part would be the preamble that talks about who

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God is and how he brought them out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery, and in light of this great king, here's what we do.

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And so I think the preamble serves the same purpose there. If you'd like to listen to Steve Lawson's preaching,

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I'd encourage you to go to Christ Fellowship Baptist Church's website, that is www .christfellowship

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.cc. Is that right, Steve? Christfellowship .cc? Yes, Christfellowship .cc,

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and we are on Sermon Audio, and that provides the connecting link to Sermon Audio, where not only can you listen free to all of my sermons and download them, but you can also watch them on video as well.

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Well, that will be an excellent resource for those who would like to understand what is expository preaching, sequentially telling people about the greatness of Christ Jesus.

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Steve, we've got about three minutes left. I know you love John MacArthur. I remember sitting in the car, we're listening to him preach

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Matthew 7 in a rainstorm in New Jersey, and both of us were just fired up listening to John.

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Tell me John's influence in your life, and tell us maybe a story that people don't know about John MacArthur, but would be insightful.

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Yeah, well, I was just with John a couple days ago out in Los Angeles, and he is not only an example to me in all things, but has become a close friend, and I cherish that friendship.

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And John has really been the gold standard for biblical exposition in this generation.

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And so his influence is upon my life in every way. It's really as if he sits on my shoulder, and his influence whispering in my ear.

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But maybe one story or incident or insight is just what a compassionate, loving man

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John is. And when I was put out of a previous church, my previous church, for preaching expository and preaching the doctrines of grace and many other truths,

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John called me, and really it's one of the kindest things anyone has ever expressed to me.

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He said, just come move in with me, live with me, until we can sort out the direction for your life.

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And John really became a safety net for me. And although I was unable to take him up on his offer, because the

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Lord had me stay here and start a new church, nevertheless, just his

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Christian love extended to me in a time of dire need, really when

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I had nowhere to go and virtually no one to turn to. He gave more than just counsel and direction.

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He opened up his very home, his life, his heart to me. I know

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John in the pulpit is very strong and very aggressive and rightly he should be. But out of the pulpit, he has been an example of Christian love, compassion, generosity, hospitality, the likes of which

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I have not seen. My wife continually is telling me when

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I am faced with certain decisions and ways that I need to reach out to others, she reminds me of John MacArthur and how he has loved me.

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And therefore I need to demonstrate the same kind of love to others. So Mike, just to answer your question, that's what pops to my mind.

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And I think that should be true of all of us. We should be strong in the pulpit, but tender towards people and towards the sheep.

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And that there should be this, it's almost like we have two arms and there should be this two sides of our

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Christian love. We're strong and dogmatic in the truth, and yet we are tender and soft -hearted towards people.

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Amen. Almost makes me want to get kicked out of my church. You'd make a good company because Calvin and Edwards were both kicked out of their churches.

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That's exactly right. Someday, Steve, I want to talk to you more about how in typical churches, when they kick out the pastor, the bad people, the fleshly people, the carnal people, they keep the building, but that'll be another show.

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Yeah. This is Mike Ebendroff. I look forward to that. We've been talking to Dr. Steve Lawson. I encourage you to pick up some of his books,

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Reformation Trust and other publishing companies. He's written books, commentaries on the Old Testament.

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I'd encourage you to get Foundations of Grace, Pillars of Grace, and a couple of the books we talked about today in The Long Line of Godly Men.

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Steve, I really appreciate your time. God bless you and your ministry. Thank you, Mike.

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Great to talk with you as always. No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Ebendroff is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

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Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible -teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life -transforming power of God's word through verse -by -verse exposition of the sacred text.

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Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at six. We're right on Route 110 in West Boylston.

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You can check us out online at bbchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.

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The thoughts and opinions expressed on No Compromise Radio do not necessarily reflect those of WVNE, its staff or management.