Presenting the Gospel to People of the Muslim Faith, Part 6

I'd like to say I taught him everything he knows but that would be a bald -faced lie so we won't go there.

Well it's good to be with you this last evening together. I'm sure some of you are going yes it is the last evening together yay.

We'll be able to have a night to ourselves. You got something going on tomorrow night? No that's good that's that's a good thing for everyone involved

I'm sure. I know it takes a lot of work and we're finally getting down to the the last portion of time we have together and finally getting to the normal material that I normally present when

I only have like an hour or maybe an hour and a half to talk with folks. So you've gotten a lot of information in fact sadly if you've listened carefully taken notes and maybe even pick up the recordings and you know listen to them again.

You're now amongst some of the best educated evangelicals in the world on the subject of Mormonism. Isn't that a frightening thought?

It really is a frightening thought when you think about it because there is such a huge gap that exists between our two communities and it makes it very very difficult for there to be really good communication between those two groups and the results

I think we see in the world around us today. Now I've been mentioning I keep saying over and over again now we're eventually to get to looking at what the

Quran says about this. We're eventually to get to that. Well now is the eventual part. This is what we've been working toward and so we have just really literally only a few specific texts but I want to look at them very carefully to look at about what the

Quran teaches about Jesus in specific but we need to start with a sort of wider topic and here in Surah 112 and I've mentioned

Surah 112 a couple of times. Hopefully you remember that in the Quran there are 114

Surahs and they get progressively shorter in essence. So if you're at Surah 112 this isn't a very long chapter and you see the entirety of it on the screen in front of you right now.

It's called Al -Iklas and the titles of the Surahs in the Quran are normally derived from a word or incident or story in the chapter itself.

So for example Surah Al -Baqarah, the cow, there is a mention in that long

Surah of an incident regarding a cow so that's why it's called the cow. Surah Al -Iklas is one of the very few

Surahs in the Quran that is named by a means other than a word that actually appears in its text and it means the purity or the sincerity.

Surah 112 is about as close as you're going to get to a creedal statement in the

Quran. It's about as close as you're going to get to sort of a summary statement of what is believed about God in Islam but most

Muslims know Surah 112 very very well. It says, say he is

Allah the one and only, Allah the eternal absolute, he begetteth not nor is he begotten and there is none like unto him.

Pretty short, pretty straightforward and three of the four statements we wouldn't have really any disagreement with at all.

In fact if you have considered again this church in specific does missions work up in Utah and therefore there's a there's a whole list of verses that you probably have become rather familiar with because if you could talk to Mormons you have to defend the fact there's only one true

God that he's unique that he's not a man the gospel is not that men can become gods but God became a man the person of Jesus Christ and there are verses that just anybody who has ever gone to Salt Lake City you just sort of memorize them you have to Isaiah 43 10 before me there was no

God formed and there shall be none after me Isaiah 44 6 & 8 45 there's just so many in between 40 and 48 the trial of the false gods but over in Jeremiah chapter 10 any

God that is not created the heavens the earth shall perish from under the heavens and the earth there's all these texts that we go to God's not a man he shall

I know the son of man he should repent and Hosea 11 9 numbers 23 19 all these texts we go to that demonstrate there's only one true

God and in all of those texts we have the emphasis upon the fact of the uniqueness of God that there are certain things that set

God apart from all the gods of the people's one of the key elements of biblical revelation is that God is the creator of all things and that unlike the gods the people around Israel who came out of the creation

God actually made everything he is independent from his creation he is the eternal creator of all things and so we look at this and and there is only one and only

God he is the eternal absolute there's none like unto him these are phrases that are very similar to what we would have in the

Old Testament text and we need to emphasize to our Muslim friends we believe these things we believe them implicitly explicitly and firmly and we confess them and unfortunately they frequently don't believe us because they've been taught that we're polytheists they've been taught that we believe in three gods and that we've we've compromised on this this one particular issue the central aspect if you were to ask for example if you were to ask a

Mormon what the central aspect of their theological system is most well -trained

Mormons would say it is the concept of exaltation to Godhood for Joseph Smith himself said in the

King Follett funeral discourse we have imagined supposed that God was God from all eternity I refute that idea and take away the veils that you might see in fact he said it is the first principle of the gospel to know for certainty the character of God that we may make we may converse with him as one man converses with another yea that God himself the father of us all was once a man who dwelt on another planet and so that's the that's the essence of Mormonism if you were talked to a

Roman Catholic what is the heart and soul of the Roman Catholic affirmation but it's that of the propitiatory sacrifice of the mass it is the central sacramental affirmation of Christ's presence with his people through the sacramental presence that is brought about by the miracle of transubstantiation in the mass and if you talk to the

Muslim the central thing they will identify as the thing that defines everything else is a word called tauheed tauheed and tauheed means oneness and so from their perspective it's oneness of certainly one

God over against all the pagan idols of the days of Muhammad and of course this is imprinted upon the religion by those first 12 years when

Muhammad is a persecuted minority prophet in Mecca and much of the

Quran that comes at that time is focused upon this idea of tauheed and the fact there's only one true

God and there's many of the things made the arguments that Muhammad would make at this time that we would agree with because we believe that there is only one true

God and he is amongst polytheists and he is persecuted there would be times that he would be bowing in prayer and they would come along and they would dump the entrails of an animal upon him while he's while he's praying and mock him and and and spit upon him and so on and so forth and and this has left its mark upon the later development of Islamic theology obviously and so when you listen to the the best

Islamic scholars and speakers they will start with tauheed one

God unfortunately in most Muslims thinking we reject that and so what do you need to do if you're going to have a conversation

I mean one that people keep saying well how can I open up the door and I've suggested some ways you can open up the door of conversation one way that will really get a lot of people's interest is to start off with quoting of you know you already know some of the verses

I mean I don't know if you've ever seen it but on my on my website I have a hundred verse memorization system for dealing with Mormons so you've seen it start off with Isaiah 43 10 or 44 you know

I understand that we agree in believing that you know

God said before me there was no God formed and there shall be none after me really yeah isn't it isn't it isn't that really important thing to recognize that that there's only one true

God he's the creator of all things that's a foundation of law and morality and and it really helps us to see what who we are is his creatures and you're talking about something you're speaking their language at that point but you're speaking your language at that point and you believe in that that truth of monotheism now you might want to then be prepared to recognize that Isaiah 43 10

Jesus quotes of himself in John 13 19 and identifies in fact you all know that Isaiah 43 10 is where Jehovah's Witnesses get their name you are my servants saith

Jehovah and you you're my service whom I have chosen says Jehovah so they're

Jehovah's Witnesses that's where the name comes from but then Jesus quotes those words of himself and identifies himself as Yahweh it's rather intriguing that that's that's the case but be that as it may you can start from that and you need to affirm to the

Muslim we believe there's only one true God we agree with three of the four about 75 % of Surat Ali Klaus but then there's that one ayah the third ayah lem yellid wa lem yulid now the term yellid as I've mentioned to you before Arabic is a is a

Semitic language just like Hebrew and the root for child or birth is the same in Arabic as it is in Hebrew and so it occurs twice in the third ayah there he begetteth not nor is he begotten lem yellid wa lem yulid you can hear the term that is used there that's also found the

Old Testament in fact it's found that Isaiah 9 6 unto us a child a yalad is born unto us a son is given exact same root just in a different language but it comes from the same source and as I mentioned to you before I when

I took my my class to the mosque at ASU just a few years ago I asked the imam

I said would you agree that the third ayah of Surat Ali Klaus is specifically written to refute

Christian belief in the doctrine of the Trinity he said oh yes certainly there's there's no question that's the background and that certainly has been the opinion of the vast majority not all but the vast majority of Muslims with whom

I was spoken he begetteth not there he has no son now what does what does the author the

Quran understand that to mean I think we need to be fair here there Muslims that say that that you know this this doesn't have anything to do with Christianity they're in the minority but they're there and I think we need to be fair with the text just because I can give you example after example after example when

Muslims are not fair with my text doesn't mean I can then turn around be unfair with theirs we don't get to do that we have to bend over backwards if we're going to demand that they handle our text right well we need to do the same thing so keep in mind this this idea he beget if not nor is he begotten because we're going to be able to sort of flesh that out a little bit as we move along now you may recall that yesterday morning in the in our time together

I introduced you to the concept of shirk and it is the concept of idolatry now we get to look at a couple of verses that actually define that for us sir 3113 says oh my son do not associate anything with a law indeed association with him is great injustice that's shirk the association of any created thing a law is so transcendent he is so other that to associate him with anything is to drag him down from his lofty height and to make him like his own creation and so you can imagine for example that the

Muslims found and continue to find today in Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy a tremendous amount of reason to find those face to cause them to stumble because of their use of icons and images and certainly the veneration of Saints and Mary and things like that and you need to realize for most

Muslims we're all just one group they don't make a differentiation just like be honest most of us don't negotiate between Muslims either and so they just they hold us accountable for prayers to Mary and Saints and everything else even if we don't believe in any of that in fact would identify that as idolatry ourselves but that still is what happens and you have to make those differentiations surah 6 1 all praise is due to Allah who created the heavens and the earth and made the darkness and the light then those who disbelieve equate others with their

Lord so there's the concept of shirk and and to be a disbeliever is a coffer a coffer again it's the same root what's what's the what's the great

Jewish holiday Yom Kippur Kippur Kaffar means to cover over and so in Arabic a disbeliever is a coffer a person who's covering over the truth and so very frequently

Muslims will just refer to us in just a bland rather insulting well there's coffers they're just coffers they don't believe and technically as they don't believe in Allah but much more specifically it's normally in their mind they don't believe in the claims of Muhammad that becomes the real object of what the disbelief is is aimed at but there you have the concept of of shirk equation of others with their

Lord now if you're let's say you didn't just didn't feel like you had time to read all of the

Quran but you asked me what sections should I read that would really be the most helpful to me

I would suggest you surahs four and five surahs four and five because as you're gonna see we're gonna be primarily focused in those two surahs because these really contain most of not all but most of the key texts that are relevant to our understanding of what the

Quran says to us and where the Quran gives testimony that quite simply it is not from God because it does not understand what it's saying so here in surah four oh you who were given the scripture specifically it's it's al -kitab the people of the book which again like I said before is

Jews or Christians sometimes the context will differentiate sometimes it does not but this is going to be more specifically about Christians here because there's oh you who were given the scripture believe in what we have sent down to Muhammad that is believe in the

Quran confirming that which is with you and just stop right there that which is with you yeah the

Torah and the Angeal the the Quran the author of the Quran really believes that the Quran confirms what's in the

Torah and the Angeal even though the Quran only once quotes from the Bible and we mentioned that yesterday remember it was the lex talionis eye for an eye tooth for a tooth before we obliterate faces and turn them toward their backs or curse them as we curse the

Sabbath breakers and ever is the decree of Allah accomplished indeed Allah does not forgive association with him that's the sin of shirk once again but he forgives what is less than that for whom he wills and he who associates others with the law has certainly fabricated a tremendous sin then the same surah surah 4

Oh people the scripture do not commit excess in your religion or say about a law except the truth this really

I think is one of the key phrases in the Quran directed at you and I the idea that the

Quran at places says some rather positive things about Christians and in fact there is a text in the

Quran that says the ones who are closest to you in faith are Christians because there are sincere

Christians according to the Quran and there's argument amongst Muslims your your

Salafi or Wahhabi Muslims which are the ones you see in Egypt in in Saudi Arabia these are what simply might call fundamentalist

Muslims most of the radicals come from their ranks though to be a Salafi or Wahhabi does not necessarily mean that you believe it's appropriate to engage in jihad today one of the men that I respect a lot that I've learned a lot from in Islam is

Sheikh Abu Amr Yasser Qadhi and he is a Salafi Muslim that means he's very very conservative and yet he speaks out against jihad now what scares me to be honest with you just a little bit is that in listening to him talk about jihad he says it's it's wrong to engage in jihad but there's only one reason why it's wrong to engage in jihad and that's because there is not a caliph today a leader of the entire

Islamic world that can declare a state of jihad if there was I'm toast it seems to me to be a rather thin line of you know little that's why so many from that perspective cross over because the people on the other side are saying there's clearly a state of jihad these people have invaded our lands they've enslaved our people blah blah blah and it's very easy for them to get people across that line so it's it's something to be concerned about but there are

Salafi Wahhabi type Muslims that argue against jihad because there is no caliph to say that to make those types of perspective but they will be very they're the ones who can be very straightforward they're gonna say your coffers your worship of Jesus is an act of shirk therefore hellfire is your is is where you're gonna go but then there are people like Hamza Yusuf who is in the in the

White House on the 13th of September 2001 a very very intelligent well -spoken

American born Islamic scholar who will say Christians can't be mushriks we cannot convict

Christians of shirk they might be forgiven in the afterlife but why interestingly enough his argument is that the reason that we can't be convicted as idolaters is because the

Quran allows Muslim men to marry Christian women and a mushrik is negus an abomination unclean defiled in Allah's sight so if a

Christian woman is a mushrik she would be negus and therefore could not be married to a Muslim man therefore

Christians must not be negus and hence must not be mushriks that doesn't really answer the question that the

Salafis raised and that is but what about what Christians believe now now Hamza Yusuf recognizes that we believe in monotheism that we confess there's only one true

God he would he would disagree that we are consistent at that point but it at least recognizes that it's first and foremost a part of our very definition of our faith that we believe there's only one true and eternal

God and so there are those that understand that unfortunately they primarily tend to be all in the

West that's very rare to encounter a Muslim in an Islamic country that is aware of those types of things and that's where a lot of the problems come from but here you have

I think a very important statement do not commit excess to aloo is the

Arabic word to go beyond the bounds to transgress a border to step over the line and so the idea is we've been given the truth we had been given the gospel if we had just a lot of the early

Muslims believed if we had just believed everything we had been given then we wouldn't believe that Jesus was

God we wouldn't believe in the doctrine of the Trinity and it's other people who've led us beyond these things some of them like today they like to they like to blame

Paul for this Paul is the one who's led us astray but of course Paul wrote 13 books in the

New Testament maybe 14 depending on what you do with Hebrews and so sort of hard to come up with exactly how that works but the early generations weren't aware of that they didn't know anything about the

New Testament it wasn't until after that Islamic expansion stops and they start establishing schools of higher learning and have to start interacting with Christians and doing debates and things like that which has there's a long line of long history of doing debates in between Christians and early early

Muslims that's when they start having to deal with these things and so we're told do not commit excess in your religion or say about a law except the truth so what the

Quran really is saying is when we confess what we confessed in our music this evening in our statement of faith the

Apostles Creed the Nicene Creed whatever else it might be we are not speaking the truth about a law because we are engaging in excess the

Messiah and that's Moshiach it's same same word the Messiah Jesus Risa Ibn Maryam the son of Mary was but a messenger a rasool of a law means he was sent by a law with a message and what unites

I mean let me let me let me test y 'all because I've mentioned this a number of times now and if y 'all don't come with the right answer then

I will I'll ask Drew who of course listens very carefully and and has all of this down and he said that that doesn't work then we go back to the pastor so so what unites all the messengers what's the one message that they bring what's the one message that unites all the messengers according to Islam because because Islam says

God has sent many prophets many messengers to many different people in many different languages but they always had one message which was what's that one

God specifically la ilaha illallah that is what has bound all of them together that was Jesus's main message if you're gonna be a rasool a messenger of Allah that is the message that you have delivered and so he was a messenger of Allah and then you have this very interesting phraseology and his word which he directed to Mary and a soul created a command from him so believe in Allah and his messengers that's not

I'm gonna change this slide I'm gonna I'm gonna change the translation of this slide because literally what the

Arabic says is that he that the Jesus was his word and spirit and a lot of folks detect some influence possibly of the

New Testament at that point in this particular description but I'm not really certain the way that Muslims interpret this text is that his word which he directed to Mary and a soul created a command from him was that elsewhere in the

Quran what is said was that Allah simply said be and Jesus came into existence so they believe in the virgin birth

Jesus did not have a human father Allah said be and he came into existence they don't do all the

Holy Spirit overshadowing and things like that they find that to be unnecessary Allah just simply said come into existence and Jesus came into existence and there's nothing too hard for Allah etc etc is the phraseology it's used so believe in Allah and his messengers which would be

Jesus but messengers is plural and also Muhammad who is the final messenger and his message really overrules anything else at that point in time it continues on and do not say three desist it is better for you indeed

Allah is but one God exalted as he above having a son now here's where the

Quran is specifically beginning to try to deal with what you and I believe and like I said and now hopefully you've got a little more background to understand this but I said the very first evening

I said even if the Trinity was wrong didn't Allah know what it was by 632

AD I mean even if it was a wrong concept God would know it well enough to refute it right and so when

I look to the Quran and I've done two debates on this now I've done one with the odd non

Rashid and one with the Psalms awadi both at different places in London England this has been the subject does the

Quran misrepresent the Trinity does the Quran even show and and even semi accurate knowledge of the doctrine of the

Trinity well let's let's let's ask ourselves the question do not say three now some translations will say do not say

Trinity the most popular English translation of the Quran that is distributed United States days by Yusuf Ali the

Saudi Arabians just crank these things out and pass them out all over the place and it says

Trinity do not say Trinity now I would agree that the Quran is trying to address the

Trinity here but there is an Arabic word for Trinity and this isn't it the

Arabic word in the Quran is the word for three not for Trinity so this is an accurate translation and so the

Quran is saying do not say three desist stop it will be better for you but then notice what the very next phrase is indeed

Allah is but one God now reason with me for just a moment if I if I say okay oh this is this could be easy

I was asking drew about family dress amongst he and his his siblings and parents and stuff and and I was asking do you have regular shirts you know you know without markings on them without embroidery things like that and it's like why so as I understand it there are three teams represented amongst the boys right

Nebraska USC and Oregon right who is the Oregon one

I mean come on what's what's this what's this all about but anyway talk about breaking at least the color trend at least you had a red thing going for a while and well green and yellow or something what happened there but anyways if I said do not say three there is only one team and dad it would be didn't even say it out loud just so just so doesn't even need to be said does it it's imprinted on every man's heart isn't it just sort of the

Imago Dei just witnesses the truth of this isn't it yeah sure okay if I say do not say three there is only one team do you understand what

I meant when I said three three what teams do not say three a lot is but one

God what is the Quran thinking we're saying three gods polytheism more than one

God we don't believe in more than one God the Council of Nicaea was 300 years before this and it start off we believe in one

God and so every just just sort of track as we read these over and over it's the same same thing over and over again do not say three one

God God doesn't have a son one God it's just constant repetition over and over and over again what does that tell you about the author of the

Quran exalted is he above having a son now the most popular

Islamic speaker in the past 40 years is a man who died back in 1990 no 2005 and this man from South Africa did a number of debates in fact he he did one debate that he lost rather badly that almost no one's ever seen against Josh McDowell and this particular man his videotapes go all over the place and if you ever want to listen to a horrible horrible horrible a debate that is as enjoyable as chewing on aluminum foil listen to the debate that he did with Jimmy Swaggart oh it's on YouTube it's it's on YouTube it is it's it's really really bad but he would always he would repeat over and over and over again that the

Christian view of God cannot be true because because to have a son refers to the lower animal sexual instincts and most

Muslims around the world they take what he has to say at face value and they take the idea that the

Quran is saying that we believe that they're the God had a son that he took a wife and had a son there are many many people who believe that that is the case so to him belongs whatever's in the heavens and whatever is on the earth and sufficient as the law is disposed of affairs and never would the

Messiah disdain to be a servant of a law nor would the angels near to him and whoever disdains his worship and is arrogant he will gather them to himself all together then we go to surah 5 and we could have gone to earlier did this is the brief version because even as it is

I'm running up against time they have certainly disbelieved coffers they're disbelievers who say

Allah is the Messiah the Son of Mary now that's really not how we speak we don't say

God is the Messiah we say the Messiah is

God but when we say that we're not saying the Messiah is all of God we're not excluding the father we're not excluding the spirit so it's an unusual way of putting it but leave that aside for the moment

Allah is the Messiah the Son of Mary while the Messiah has said

Oh children of Israel worship Allah my Lord and your Lord now before you go looking in your concordance to find those particular words of Jesus don't bother they're not there this is one of those times where the

Quran inserts into the mouth of Jesus words that historically there is absolutely no basis for believing that Jesus ever uttered any of these words and that's what's just so amazing to me when when

Muslims will come along and they'll start quoting the Jesus seminar in questioning the reality of the book of John and yet they'll accept this kind of thing as if it is relevant to historically what is actually going on what is it about this time

I just I just want you all to know that you

I know you can hear me out there in the foyer and I'm really hurt

I'm saddened and we're gonna have a little meeting with all of you afterwards and I'm gonna finish what

I was saying but they must be hungry they must say it's those young folks they need that they need those brownies before all the rest of us do

I guess so anyways I have no idea what was saying we were at the Battle of Yamama right okay so we're at the

Battle Yamama and it's always a good place to go back to is the Battle of Yamama what were we saying all right they have certainly disbelieved who has said

Allah is the Messiah the Son of Mary while the Messiah has said okay I was saying you'll not find that anywhere in the Bible indeed he who associates others with Allah Allah has forbidden him paradise and his refuge is the fire you hear about halal and haram hear about halal meat in a lot of cities now like in prison prisons they're especially in Europe so like that they'll only serve halal meat it's basically the the the

Muslim version of kosher well interesting enough here it says Allah has forbidden him paradise he's made paradise haram to him haram is forbidden and so paradise is now haram to the person who says who basically makes confession of faith in the deity of Christ Allah has forbidden him paradise and his refuge is the fire and there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers they have certainly disbelieved who say

Allah is the third of three now that's a literal that's a good literal translation not the first of three the third of three three what hmm look at the next phrase and there is no

God except one God every time you find the word three what's the next phrase gonna be there's only one

God so what does three mean accusation of polytheism not a recognition that we believe there's one

God exists in three persons or anything along those lines there is only one God and if they do not desist from what they are saying so if you will not stop being a

Christian there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment so will they not repent to Allah and seek his forgiveness you need to seek forgiveness for being an idolater and Allah is forgiving and merciful the

Messiah son of Mary was not but a messenger other messengers have passed on before him and his mother was a supporter of truth they both used to eat food look how we make clear to them the signs then look how they are deluded so hellfire deluded led astray and and people say we're the ones that attack

Islam I'm not really sure that's that's the case but you've heard this argument before you heard this argument before it well of course you might be singer going this is the first night

I've been here I have no idea what you're talking about but if you've been here all along you've heard this argument before where'd you hear it big tree

Jesus is walking by the fig tree and he wants to eat fig they both used to eat food the argument of the

Quran is Jesus can't be God because he ate food and God doesn't eat food he doesn't get hungry assuming there can be no such thing as the incarnation assuming that the

God who made man cannot enter into his own creation cannot join to himself a perfect human nature but there's where it comes from you just eat food but you notice something else there it doesn't say he says they who's the they his mother was a supporter of the truth they both used to eat why say why say they want to say he well keep that in mind because it goes on say do you worship besides a law that which holds for you no power of harm or benefit while it is a law who is the hearing the knowing say

O people the scripture do not exceed limits in your religion beyond the truth that's just like surah 5 you're committing excess you're going beyond the limits say only the truth of a law

O people of scripture do not exceed limits in your religion beyond the truth and do not follow the inclinations of a people who had gone astray before and misled many and have strayed from the soundness of the way remember what

I told you about sir at al -fatiha the opening prayer that they have in all it's the opening prayer the

Quran and they say it in all of their prayers and it says lead us in the path of those who've earned thy favor

Muslims now those who've earned thy wrath the Jews or of those who what go astray

Christians if you ever heard hear them they will lengthen the vow while a da lean the lean led astray that's you and me that's you and me we have been led astray misled many gone astray before and have strayed from the soundness of the way we have been given the truth but we've gone beyond the limits and the limits are

Unitarianism not monotheism we're monotheists but Unitarianism the being of God can only be shared by one person that is what they're saying that's what they're emphasizing here now let me go one or two more minutes we got a little late little late start had a law wished this is now let me jump out of here and mention just a couple sections about the issue of sonship in the

Quran then we'll take our break don't forget what I'm saying then come back and we'll make the application to I think the key text which

I've mentioned to you a number of times before already surah 5 116 had a law wished to take to himself a son he could have chosen whom he pleased out of those whom he doth create but glory be to him he is above such things he is a law the one the irresistible now some

Muslims will argue that some of these texts about sons only has to do with the fact that in the

Kaaba you had all these gods and they would be married and they'd have kids and and there were a lot of family relationships between the various pagan idols and things like that and you see that in Greek religion and Roman religion and Egyptian religion there would be these incestuous relationships and all the rest this stuff

I don't know if you know much about and I've ever seen one of our tracks I'll have to give to you sometime I don't know if you've seen on the website called men is not

God and it's about men in the book of Abraham who was this incestuous

God and he's in the book of Abraham you can show it so you can open up the the Pearl of Great Price to say look right there that's what this guy actually is well there's all sorts of pagan deities like that and they'll say well that's what this is about is if you wish take to himself a son it's just talking about marrying and having that kind of sonship doesn't have anything to do with Christianity the problem is they can't really make a strong distinction they can't really determine where these divisions come in the text of the

Quran itself the Quran does is not clear enough but notice when it talks about sonship he could have chosen whom he pleased of those whom he doth create in other words he could have found a mate but that's below him that's not something he would do and that is continued in surah 6 101 to him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth how can he have a son when he hath no consort he created all things and he hath full knowledge of all things

I asked my Arabic tutor this term consort how do you understand that he says well in in modern usage in modern

Arabic use is just sort of a that's the woman on the side that's that's you know sort of the the woman that you keep secret from your wife type thing it didn't necessarily have that same kind of meaning at this time but it's it's if he's if he's how can he have a son we don't have a wife there's no one like him by which to have a child and so what is the idea of sonship that we can establish exists within the

Quran itself it's the concept of Allah as a male deity with some type of a female having an offspring that's the concept of sonship that we saw there in surah 39 we see it in surah 6 101 we saw something similar to it in surah