Spiritual Gifts 101 (Part 4)
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On today's NoCo - Pastor Mike continues in part 4 of the series on Spiritual Gifts from 1 Cor 12. Continuing on the topic of sign gifts and cessasionism - some questions are asked of our charismatic friends:
won't you admit to some cessationism?
Is the canon closed? Yes - so the writing of scripture has ceased
Are there apostles today? No
why does the church appoint deacons and elders and not apostles?
are the sign gifts that happen today really the same things that happened in NT?
No - so you are a cessationist
since we have the completed canon, what is the purpose of sign gifts?
since the Bible is the final authority why do you point to your experience to validate the gifts?
what does it say about sign gifts if for 1800 yrs God did not soverignty see fit to use them ?
Who was? Cultists, Mormons, heretics, etc
why do you regularly use Heb 13:8?
God does not change
Remember Heb 13:7 - your leaders change but Christ does not change
- 00:02
- Thanks for tuning in to No Compromise Radio with pastor and author, Dr. Mike Abendroth.
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- Today on No Compromise Radio, we'll be hearing Pastor Mike open the Word of God in a recent message he preached at Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston, Massachusetts.
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- Now let's join Pastor Mike in progress as he preaches through the Scriptures verse by verse with No Compromise.
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- Acts chapter 9, I'll just pick it up in verse 39.
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- Peter rose and went with them, and when he arrived, they took him to the upper room. All the widows stood beside him, weeping, and showing tunics and other garments that Dorcas made while she was still with them.
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- Can't you just picture it? But Peter put them all outside and knelt down and prayed and turned to the body.
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- He said, Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes, and when she saw Peter, she sat up, and he gave her his hand and raised her up.
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- Then calling the saints and widows, he presented her alive. There's a reason for the sign gift to be used.
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- Here's the reason, verse 42, besides the compassion of God through Peter. Here's the reason, to confirm and authenticate and validate the message and the messenger.
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- And it became known throughout all Joppa, and many believed in the Lord. Back to chapter 12, verse 10, the next revelatory gift is found in verse 10, it's prophecy.
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- Paul is trying to say, big picture to the church of Corinth, tongues isn't the end all, there are other gifts.
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- When you hear the word prophecy, what do you think about? I would tend to think this way, a prediction.
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- Jesus is coming back in 2014. But prophecy isn't just prediction, prophecy is speaking the words for God.
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- That's what prophecy is. Speaking the words for God, which could include a prophecy for the future, but could include anything else.
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- So Moses is going to be God's spokesperson. He sins because he says, I don't really, I can't really talk that well.
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- So God said, all right, I'm going to give you Aaron, he'll speak for you, he'll be your prophet. He'll be the prophet for the people.
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- You're my spokesperson. The prophet was to God, so Aaron was to Moses. And so if God uses a prophet to speak his words, here's my main question for you regarding this.
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- Should we expect 100 % truth from the word of the prophet? In other words, if I'm speaking for God and I tell you, thus sayeth the
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- Lord, don't you expect me to give you 100 % truth? The answer is yes, because God is 100 % true.
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- But today we have people who say there's some prophecies going on today that have a little error. They're not all infallible.
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- Well, that's not prophecy. Prophets were 100 % accurate because God is 100 % accurate and the prophet is the mouthpiece of God.
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- Perfect, infallible revelation coming from a man's mouth. It scares me when
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- I read Jack Deere, who used to teach at Dallas Seminary. In order to fulfill God's highest purposes for our lives, we must be able to hear his voice both in written word and in a word freshly spoken from heaven.
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- Satan understands the strategic importance of Christians hearing God's voice, so he has launched various attacks against us in this area.
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- One of his most successful attacks has been to develop a doctrine that teaches God no longer speaks to us except through the written word.
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- Ultimately, this doctrine is demonic. The error in that thinking is multiplied in many ways, but the question is this, what
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- God has done in the past, should we expect him to do it in the present? The scripture doesn't need new revelation because revelation is complete.
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- Here's what I want to tell you, cessationist or not, charismatic or not, even if you're a charismatic,
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- I want you to be able to say, you know what, the kind and type of New Testament miracles and healings and wonders aren't going on today.
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- That's the only thing I'm after. And then I'll tell you back, and I do think God heals today, but no one has the gift of healing.
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- God does miracles today, but no one has the gift of miracles. I'm not saying you shouldn't pray for a healing,
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- I'm saying you don't need to call a healer. Because if you call him, you'll be disappointed because he won't match up to the
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- New Testament description. Chapter 12, verse 10, distinguishing of spirits. This is the seventh gift
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- Paul listed, and the reason in context is because he's trying to say there's more to Christian life with sign gifts than tongues.
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- What I'm trying to say is, we don't hardly know what these even are today because they're not around. Not the same manner and kind, that's for sure.
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- And to another, the distinguishing of spirits. That's interesting. Somebody was given the gift to hear somebody preach, and they could say, yep, that's right, that's wrong.
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- 1 John 4 now tells us that we're to discern the spirits and test them. How do you test them?
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- Can you test somebody to tell if they're teaching the truth or not? How? By the chapter and verse. But they didn't have all the chapters and verses then, so God gave someone the ability to discern and to examine to see what was really true.
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- Weighing and evaluating the origin, authority, and application of a prophetic message, one commentator said, to judge these things.
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- Satan is a deceiver, so God was protecting his church. Now the next one, tongues. This is what we've all been waiting for, haven't we?
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- The gift of tongues, chapter 12, verse 10. This is the eighth in the list, and again, eight and nine are tongues, interpretation of tongues, put at the bottom of the list to deemphasize what they were emphasizing.
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- This was a real gift back then, as all these were, to confirm the messenger, to confirm the message before the canon was closed.
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- It says here, to another various kinds of tongues. That word means languages. The Greek word for tongues is languages, and you can go to Revelation chapter 7,
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- God has saved people from all kinds of different backgrounds and languages, from different tribes, tongues, languages.
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- Philo knew this was language. That's what the word meant. Josephus knew this word meant language.
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- This is a verifiable foreign language that you don't learn. Now if this was just some gibberish, then what's so miraculous about that?
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- But how about if I've never spoken German before, never learned German, I go to Germany and I preach in German?
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- And the next gift, the ninth gift is the interpretation, and someone who's never taken Rosetta Stone German listens and says, by the way, this is what he's saying to you non -German listeners out there.
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- I would probably listen to that. Have you ever met anyone who has preached, who spoke in a language they never learned?
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- Even charismatic missionaries know, we better go learn this language before we go some place. Now just after this service this morning, someone came to me and said,
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- I know someone who heard someone go to another part of the country, they didn't know this language, they preached to these people for three days in that language and then left and then couldn't remember the language anymore.
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- Well, A, experience doesn't validate anything, and B, if you had the New Testament gift of languages, it wouldn't just disappear.
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- Foreign languages, that would be a gift given by God. Notice in chapter 12, verses 7, verses 10, verses 11.
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- This isn't something you come up with. So when somebody tells you today, you're a
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- Christian, you need the gift of tongues, here's what you should do. It's like riding a big Indian motorcycle or a
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- Triumph or a BMW or even a Harley, and it's like, I just, okay, just try, just try. What they like to do is say, just start talking and just let something out.
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- Don't speak English. Well, if it's given by the Spirit, you can't get it unless it's given to you.
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- If you want the gift of teaching and you don't have the gift of teaching, you can study more, you could probably teach better and evangelize better by learning doctrines.
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- But to have the spiritual gift of teaching, you can't get it, because God sovereignly, before time began, decided not to give it to you.
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- So now when people say, for instance, just speak, don't speak English, that's right, don't speak
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- English, but speak out, let the words flow, that's it, you've got it. That's not New Testament tongues. That's not a miracle.
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- That doesn't make me go, what that guy says is true. You know what that makes me say? Why should I listen to this guy about the atonement and how it's the intent of atonement when he thinks speaking in tongues is gibberish?
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- It makes me do the opposite. There's one person here in our church, and I think he's told me, I can tell the story, but I'll keep him nameless.
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- He was taught to speak in tongues, alleged tongues. And they said to this particular man who didn't have a background of all kinds of grammar and English and everything, and they said, we want you to just start saying a bunch of consonants, just get the stuff coming out of your mouth, just let the consonants flow.
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- And so this man started up. He didn't know what a consonant was, but he had a little grammar background. So he started A -E -I -O -U,
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- A -E -I -O -U, A -E -I -O -U. Does that work, buddy? I don't think it worked.
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- Determine not to speak a word of English at this time. Lift your sound of your voice and the Holy Spirit will give you utterance in a new language supernaturally.
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- Do not be concerned about what to say as the language is spoken supernaturally. It does not come through the mind or intellect, but through your spirit.
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- That's scary. The tongue speaker in the New Testament was given by the sovereign spirit, the ability to speak a language he had never learned.
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- It was revelational, it was a foreign language. It wasn't gibberish. William Samarin, who was a professor of linguistics at University of Toronto said, over a period of five years,
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- I have taken part in meetings in Italy, Holland, Jamaica, Canada, in the United States. I've observed old fashioned
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- Pentecostals, Neo -Pentecostals. I've been in small meetings in private homes, as well in its mammoth public meetings.
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- I've seen it said in different cultural settings, Puerto Ricans of the Bronx, snake handlers of the
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- Appalachians, and Russians of Los Angeles. I've interviewed tongue speakers and tape recorded and analyzed countless samples of tongues.
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- In every case, tongues turns out to be linguistic nonsense. In spite of superficial similarities, glossolalia is fundamentally not language.
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- Turn if you would to Matthew chapter 6 for a moment. For those of you that think tongues isn't a language, but think it's an utterance and it's repeating things and it's a private prayer language, let me just remind you of Matthew chapter 6.
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- Matthew chapter 6 would speak against that, our Lord teaching the Lord's prayer, technically the disciples' prayer.
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- Matthew chapter 6, before he teaches us how to pray, our Father who art in heaven, he tells his readers this.
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- Matthew chapter 6 verse 7, and when you are praying, I'm going to put this in the context of the private prayer language in just a moment, do not use meaningless repetition as the
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- Gentiles do, for they suppose that they would be heard for their many words. What is
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- Jesus trying to tell them? Well, it's in the context of the Father listening, look at verse 8, so do not be like them, for your
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- Father knows what you need before you ask him. So if you have a dad today on earth, and you have something that you need, wouldn't you be able to just go to him and say, dad,
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- I'm really hurting, could you help me in this area? Wouldn't that just be enough? Or do you think you kind of got to get him going a little bit, and you got to talk a lot so he'll finally listen to you?
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- And that's what they used to think. Coming out of paganism, if I talk to this God long enough, then he'll listen to me, but I kind of have to butter him up, and I have to have all this extra stuff here, and this starter fluid type of thing, and maybe he'll talk to me, and you just start running your mouth.
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- What is Jesus saying here? Don't use meaningless repetition. The Greek word is batalogosete, theology, logos, it means to say something, logos, word, in the beginning was the word.
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- And bata is just a word we put on the front, it's just a nonsense word, it's like murmur, it is onomatopoetic, and so here's what
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- Jesus says. When you pray to God your father, don't repeat bata all the time. Don't pray like this, bata, bata, bata, bata, bata, bata, bata, bata, bata, bata, bata, bata, bata, bata, bata, bata.
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- What does that sound like to you? That's how pagans pray. They don't use their mind, they're not engaged, go to your dad today, if you're young, maybe
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- Luke should come up to me today afterwards. Dad, I got a favor for you That I'd like to ask of you. Yes, son.
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- Bada -bada -bada -bada -bada -bada -bada. Knock it off What are you doing?
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- I've heard people say here's what you say say shaman a shaman a pop pop pop I'm not kidding.
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- I've heard people say to just start saying this Chickamauga high -low Just repeat it over and over Chickamauga high -low shoulda bought a
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- Honda bada -bada -bada -bada. I'm not kidding. That's not this gift Because it's no gift, you know for the last 1 ,800 years.
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- Nobody spoke in any language, but Eskimos pagans Mormons The gift of New Testament tongues was
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- I spoke in a language I didn't learn you'll pay attention to what I say if you start doing bada -bada.
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- I'm just like bada bada bing It's like got out of here. I don't want to talk to you Well, I do want to talk to you But I don't want to learn from you this gibberish this jabber shows that you don't know the father
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- Now back to first Corinthians chapter 12 the last gift is a translation of these things interpretation This person could interpret a language.
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- They never learned now. That is a miracle I don't mean it's like when I sit in Germany and listen to someone preach in German I kind of can pick it up because I know some words or I've been to Chinese speaking churches
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- And I think you know what? I think they're in in first John and then they'll give the Greek word koinonia and I'm like yes fellowship
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- I understood one thing today. I kind of get the context of what they're saying. No, this is the real language definite articles verbs
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- Participles gerunds never learned and what does Paul say verse 11? Spiritual gifts are sovereignly given can't desire them can't ask for them
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- Can't get them by the way, if you think you've got some gifts and other people are less than you are
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- Corinthians These are given to you by God all these are empowered by one in the same spirit who apportions to each one individually as He wills can you imagine your spiritual gift was picked by God in eternity past?
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- How about that? He knew exactly what would be happening in the church and what they would need the sovereign spirit individually as he wills
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- Originating with him. So here's what I'd like to do with the rest of the time that we have today I have some questions for my charismatic friends.
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- I'd like to ask them. Maybe some of you are here Maybe some of you are listening online questions for my charismatic friends,
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- I Want you to know the truth and I think it will help you in maturity and I'm willing to preach on this topic
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- Even at the risk of being labeled as unloving rationalistic head knowledge only
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- We are to examine all things and hold fast to what is good So I have some questions that I'd like to ask you but before I ask you the questions, let's define the terms cessationism continuationism
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- Cessationism the root word cease Revelation gifts like tongues miracles healings ceased
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- Why because the canon was closed nothing to point to anymore. They were signed gifts Continuation is a means they continue what was normal in the
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- New Testament and Bible should be normal now What was expected then should be expected now cessationism cease continuationism
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- Continues so I have some questions for my continuationist friends question one
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- Why don't you admit to some cessationism or I could put it this way? Since you already admit to some cessationism, why don't you admit to more?
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- What do I mean by that? most Charismatics today believe that the canon of Scripture is closed
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- And if you believe that you're partly a cessationist No new revelation.
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- No new data. Nothing to insert between Revelation 22 in the book of Maps Right nothing in there
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- You're a cessationist because cessationists believe God is no longer giving revelation Furthermore, won't you admit to some cessationism because you don't really believe
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- Apostles are for today. Do you? most charismatics don't
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- The true office of an Apostle they realize isn't for today because the Apostles could do these kind of miracles and signs and wonders
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- They say well, you know what the real Apostle capital a Apostle isn't for today Do you know what friends can be charismatic friends?
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- You're a cessationist if you believe the canons close sufficient authoritative
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- Sola scriptura and Apostles are no longer today. You're a cessationist you say well
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- You know what show me one verse in the Bible where it says that signs cease and I'll believe you now Really is that is that your argument show me one verse in the
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- Bible that it says that the Bible is complete and and I'll Believe we have a closed canon See how that works that's not the way to argue show me one verse that teaches that the
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- Apostles are gone and I'll believe it Is that how we get our theology? Show me one verse that states tongues signs and wonders continue through the church age and I'll believe it
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- Now that doesn't work out How about the Bible teaches the doctrine of the Trinity even though it doesn't say
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- God is triune and explains it We put it together Systematically doesn't the
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- Bible do that as well Can't we see the three times where there were signed gifts were Joshua and Moses Elijah and Elisha Jesus the
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- Apostle and towards the end of the canon Miracles are few and far between trophimus is left sick.
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- Timothy's got stomach problems Paphroditus is almost dead. It's just different.
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- Why because the canons getting put together question two for my charismatic friends Are the signed gifts that happened are allegedly happening today?
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- Are they of the same kind and type of those that happened in the New Testament do missionaries blind opponents like Paul did today?
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- Are people beamed up and moved ten miles over to Azotophs today like in Acts chapter 8
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- Is there a rushing mighty wind like the Spirit of God coming on the day of Pentecost today?
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- Are multitudes healed by just being on in the shadow of a healer today?
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- No different kinds and types and therefore I respect Wayne Grudem a continuationist who at least has the
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- Temerity to say with all I and I admire him for that. So maybe not temerity.
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- Maybe that's not a good word He says that God still acts today, but in different ways than what the New Testament So there's prophecies today, but they're not as prophetic as then in the
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- New Testament And so what I would say is then dr. Wayne Grudem You're a cessationist you've conceded the argument the canons closed.
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- There's no Apostles different miracles than today You're conceding cessationism If you'd like to read a book on this topic satisfied by the promise of the
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- Spirit by Thomas Edgar is a great book Question three since we have a completed canon.
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- What is the purpose of the alleged sign gifts today? What do they point to the purpose of sign gifts have been exhausted?
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- Establishing the gospel message in the gospel messenger, but we have that established in Scripture next question for my charismatic friends
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- Since the Bible is our final and only authority. Why do you true try to prove your point via experience?
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- So I had someone come to me at the end of the service today and they told me that they disagreed with me Thankfully, they did it nicely and didn't call me a liar or anything, but they said
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- I disagree with you I know somebody who had this experience this other country.
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- Therefore it must be true Well the answer to that if I was going to argue in kind I would say well,
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- I haven't had that experience Therefore it's not true. But neither one of those does adequate justice to the text.
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- What does the text say? You can't prove something happened because you know a friend and a missionary down in Swahili someplace and again,
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- I'm not saying God doesn't do miracles and Wonders and healings
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- Directly. I'm saying he doesn't do them through people. They don't have the gift question 5 What does it say about sign gifts if for 1 ,800 years
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- God sovereignly saw fit not to use them? Clement of Rome writes to Corinth in 95
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- AD No mention of tongues origin 185 AD Signs of the
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- Apostolic Age were temporary no recorded evidence Chrysostom the whole place of sign gifts
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- He said is very obscure, but the obscurity is produced by our ignorance of the facts referred to in other words
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- We don't know these things don't happen today Augustine Speaking in tongues was a miracle suitable for the only church outside fringe groups and cults
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- Cessationism is the Orthodox position for 1 ,800 years until the Azusa Street revival in 1906
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- Shakers They did crazy things not a Christian sect Mormons shamans voodoo practitioners
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- Buddhist Shinto priest those were the kinds of people doing the tongues and issues like that until 1906 so my question is for 1 ,900 years
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- Let's say 1 ,800 years God isn't using those things and now he does why my last question
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- I think for today we better stop Why doesn't the Bible speak of appointing Apostles and prophets and healers today
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- Friends think about this at Crete Paul says in Titus appoint elders in every city, right?
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- First Timothy chapter 3 you've got a church in Ephesus Paul writes to Timothy you need elders and deacons
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- Why would he not say you need healers you need Apostles and you need prophets?
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- What's the answer? Would you like to have one of those of this church? Why doesn't the text say appoint healers
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- Because healers are gone The canons closed. There's no reason for a healer today. God can heal directly.
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- Don't misunderstand me But through the person who has the gift of healing they're not around today So he doesn't say appoint healers matter of fact, why is it in the gospel a gospel of James?
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- Why is it in the book of James? When people are sick, what do you do in chapter 5? Who do you call?
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- If everything is for the same and everything that happened then happens now if you were sick and you needed to call someone
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- Who would you call? the healer the Apostle the prophet and who are you supposed to call now when you're spiritually weak?
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- Sick who do you call the elders? Why because healers don't exist today prophets don't exist today
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- Apostles don't exist today question eight Why do you regularly use
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- Hebrews 13 8 to prove tongues today, by the way? You can go to a church and if they have this up here, you know, what kind of church pretty much it is
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- Now I love the verse. It's a great verse to put up but it has nothing to do with charismatic theology
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- Listen to the verse Jesus Christ is the same yesterday today and forever. Aren't you glad he's the same?
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- He's a great God man Now does that mean Jesus Christ what he did back in those days?
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- He'll do now and then he'll do in heaven Well, there's no healing in heaven. No tongues in heaven. No miracles in heaven.
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- No anything like that in heaven So it can't mean that how do you determine the meaning of a Bible verse any
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- Bible verse? Context and the context of Hebrews chapter 13 verse 8 can be found in Hebrews 13 7
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- Remember those who led you who spoke the Word of God to you consider the result of their conduct
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- Imitate their faith. I would like to be faithful to you to preach to you to talk about sovereign grace to you
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- To have a faith that you can imitate but I am frail. I am weak. I'm sinful and I'm mortal
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- Now what I do that points you to Christ follow me But the next verse says, do you know what
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- Mike may change but there's somebody who isn't and you need to look past me And you need to remember
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- Jesus Christ the same yesterday today and forever That's not a charismatic verse
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- That's a verse to say remember your leaders and look past to the leader if you're a cessationist and you have charismatic friends
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- Then you need to lovingly tell them the truth But if we are right and I think we are
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- Then the only reason we're right is because God has let us see this by his spirit Illuminating our minds and if the charismatics come across as we've got something you don't
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- Then we should not respond in kind saying we know something that you don't we should love the brother
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- No compromise radio with pastor. Mike Avendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston Bethlehem Bible Church is a
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- Bible teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life -transforming power of God's Word through verse -by -verse exposition of the sacred text
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