The Laborers' Podcast- Exodus

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Welcome to the laborers podcast. Thank you for joining us tonight Tonight will be a laborers overview of Exodus Welcome to the laborers podcast which is a part of the truth in love

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Network Join us as together We strive to grow up together in all things into Christ Subscribe and follow the truth in love

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Network on Facebook YouTube rumble Spotify and iTunes now, let's join our laborers for tonight's broadcast

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Welcome back to the laborers podcast we are Joined by the laborers that we have tonight our big

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John real talk with big John called Ramsey here. I stand theology podcast Jeremy and faith faith reformed right.

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Yeah reformed Baptist Church and Tyler no, we bread of the word podcast and joining us now is

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The Chicano nuts. Yo, yo, what's going on Bible Theory podcast?

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Going on y 'all. What's that? What's up? Before we get started. I like to get this out of the way, but it's so so important to me to partner and show unity

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It's good resource Exodus a Laborer's overview of Exodus and we hope this is helpful for you guys.

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The comment line is open If you have a question critique prayer, we'd love to hear from you.

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Let us know that you're watching How you guys doing? I'm doing good.

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I'm doing good being blessed y 'all being blessed as well. Can you guys hear me? All right? Oh, yes All right, just double -check

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So this is not a typical overview of the books. I'm trying to pull out It's so it's so hard to get through many questions

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But we do a good job of the questions that we do get into We we have a good conversation about them

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But so this is not a typical overview of the books of the Bible where we talk about the author or the date

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I'm trying to pull out some Some of the questions that we may have or would be good discussion questions

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And so I hope I hope it's edifying for everybody that listens or watches As opposed to having a two -hour debate on whether or not

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Adam and Eve had belly buttons. That's right Where did

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Kane's wife come from the contemplation of the naval

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All right, so we're gonna jump into the first question and I'm gonna put this on the resource page, but Tyler has written an article related to this first question and We'll put it on the resource page on the website.

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So so go check it out truth and love network calm some claim that Submitting to God is bondage.

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You know, it's gonna it's gonna ruin my life Ruin my freedom. So God led the

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Hebrew people out of slavery just to be in bondage to him Wow, and I say no

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I say no so explain why submitting to God is not slavery But true freedom for Israel and for us

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Well to start the I think the key phrase in the opening Narrative of the book of Exodus is let my people go so that they may worship me.

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That is Exodus 4 23 7 16 8 1 8 20 9 1 9 13 and 10 3 that is that is the key phrase that God keeps using time and time again in that narrative is

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Let my people go why so that they may worship me and while that may sound like a demand

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Some have said that's bondage or slavery. I guess it depends on how you want to define those terms but the reality is they were called out of slavery to a wicked person and called into a familial relationship with God they were called into What's the word of covenants and they were called into covenant with God You will be my people and I will be your

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God and that may sound I'm restricting sometimes But it's restricting because it restricts the flesh

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It restricts those sinful things we want to do but it also frees us to do

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The things spirit wants to do that. It's not just freedom from something but it's freedom to something.

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Mm -hmm That is not just emancipation, but it's Repatriation it is bringing back that father -son dynamic

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God even calls Israel his son in the opening portion of Exodus Amen Yeah, it's impossible it's impossible to worship

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God like Tyler accentuated that outside of being delivered by God why

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Because one of the many verses that Tyler Referenced right we are slaves to our sin

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Let me quote a worthy author He said this the term slave is an appropriate rendering of the

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Greek word Doulas in the New Testament I know we're Old Testament still we're talking There was a whole testament then

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Greek to This word was understood by the first century

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Greek as Slave while ancient Greek slavery was vastly different from the American slave trade.

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There are some transferable element We often think Waves often were subjected to hardship their rights were defined differently than other members of society

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But perhaps the most significant factor is the sovereignty of the slave holder

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We are or humanity You're either going to be a slave to sin or you're gonna be a slave to righteousness being made a slave to righteousness is an act of God in and of itself, however, like Tyler said it's a oh

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Goodness What would be the term? I'm looking for here. Somebody help me It's a

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I mean, it's to use two words that are totally opposite It's a liberating slavery

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I'm gonna say there's there's an aspect that is Totally valid to say that we're slaves to Christ.

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Yeah, we were purchased. That's right There was there was there was a debt That was required in order to grant us our freedom and in order to have this freedom

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It has to be you had to be purchased by Christ Which means that you are really not your own

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So in more than one way you are slave. Here's the unit. Here's it. Here's a unique thing about it

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Obviously And the culture we live in especially slavery has nothing but negative connotations to it

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Absolutely, nothing but negative connotations to it and ran for good reason however You're never given an option as Claude said to not be a slave

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The morning you were born There was a time when you was going to die and there's no way around that.

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There's absolutely no way around that and either you're going to Worship and serve and be a slave to the

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God of this world to sin and Go to hell whenever you perish

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Or you're gonna be a slave to Christ and in that in that slavery have freedom the same way

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That dying in Christ is living. Hey, man exactly the same What would you call that?

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Turn a phrase or usage of the word. It sounds like an oxymoron. It really does but it it's a paradox.

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Yeah I told you this man knows some stuff Paradox If we could get him to like,

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I don't know play a small bongo drum like like one in coffee shop poets and then say paradox and then

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If I can talk to somebody get me one of those drums in here and figure out a way to Add some look.

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I'll try to have you a drum sound effect In into I mean,

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I mean in Exodus itself, I mean We are all

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Understood here that description with it. We are to let the scripture interpret scripture, right? I mean even in the book of Exodus is itself the

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Lord Addresses, you know the law concerning servants. I mean so in Exodus chapter 21

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These are the judgments which you shall set before them This is after the Lord gives the commandments on Sinai He said if you buy a

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Hebrew servant, he shall serve six years in the seventh year He should go out and free and pay nothing if he comes in by himself

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He should go out by himself and he comes in married Then his wife will go out with him if his master has given him a wife and she has born him sons or daughters the wife

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And her children shall be her masters and she and he shall go out by himself But this if the servant plainly says

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I love my master my wife and my children I will not go out free then his master shall bring him to the judges

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He shall also bring him to the door to the doorpost and his master shall pierce his ear with an awl

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And he shall serve him forever So it goes on to talk more about this but another

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Liberating feature of being a slave to Christ is that we have our needs met in him that You know again

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Jonathan our big big John mentioned there that there's such a negative connotation on slavery when we look at it

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Realistically in the Old Testament my goodness. It was a provision Yeah for a man and his family

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It wasn't like what we think of the negative connotations of the slave trade, you know from what?

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History tells us and so on and so forth. Certainly there was evils that took place Certainly will before should this was absolutely right and standing up in the abolition of slavery

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But when we look at this from the biblical context there are great many and great truths that we can draw in and take comfort in the fact that that the

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Servant was housed the fact that the servant was clothed my goodness

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I'm pretty sure that's what Jesus, you know talked about in the sermon on the mail, right?

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well There's also the thought that You're the the care how you to treat this person.

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That's right now if you Use Egypt if you were to use Egypt as an example of the world like scripture does all the times an example of sin

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Yeah, they were treated poorly and they groaned because of the treatment of their taskmasters

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God delivered them. That's right so You're not I mean it would be it would be absolutely unacceptable for God to Liberate them from Egypt and then turn around and allow his people to be treated the same way that the taskmasters in Egypt treating them

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Like you said there was no chapter 11 bankruptcy. There was no welfare state where That these people were supposed to take care of one another we talked a little bit about this in that episode

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We did on tithing where the church should be taking care of the church Right, this is this is some of the same

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I guess Foundational principles of brotherly love of keeping at watching after those among you who can't take care of themselves.

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That's right So and that's further complemented by the fact that God called them out of Egypt to worship and where in the wilderness

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Yeah, he didn't call them into a mansion. He called them into Essentially a desert

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And that that idea of go let my people go that they may worship me We see that that kind of literary arc

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Completed in chapter 12 when Pharaoh says the same things of Moses and he says go

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And worship the the Lord your God as you have said. Yeah Take everything and go we can also see

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I think big John kind of brought it up, but that the the idea that the

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Israelites were slaves to Egypt they could do nothing But what Pharaoh commanded that's it like they couldn't they couldn't leave they had to make bricks

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They had to make idols for him. They created idols for a pagan nation and when God took them out of there now they were free to serve

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God, but you you also see they Unfortunately, I guess if that's the word

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I should use that they could still make idols They could still go back and they did when they made a golden calf

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I think they still created an idol for themselves, which we can see kind of some of that in our in our current new covenant in a sense that you know

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God has saved me and taken me out of the slavery of sin and Brought me in and made me his child and a slave of righteousness

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But at the same time Sometimes I still create those old idols and go back to Egypt if you will

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Where I have that freedom I pulled up a verse on Everybody's mind priority thought of this but no first John 5 3 it says for this is a love of God that we keep his

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Commandments and his commandments and are grievous, you know, Jesus said that To take up his yoke and it's not burdensome to it.

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His yoke is easy. It's light But we still do have as Believers still in the flesh still have the ability to go back

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Egypt if you will and create those idols, even though God won't allow his people to stay there He will obviously bring us back out of that But as an unbeliever you have no ability there like that's all you're going to do is create idols, that's it

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That's all Israel could have did in Egypt And that's all the unbeliever can do in his unregenerate state is create idols and as a believer now of the one true

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God We have the freedom to worship God, but even in that, you know Sometimes our flesh is weak and we go back into Egypt and create that idol again

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I think it's interesting that you guys brought up Egypt Egypt and I Was thinking about going in a similar direction that you were going

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Jeremy because even though Israel was liberated physically from slavery in Egypt They remained in bondage spiritually and it made me think of Revelation because I would think

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Revelation compares Israel to Egypt and Because they remained in that bonded spiritually they remain under the bondage of the law and They and the they're they're out of worship, you know want to do their own thing

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And so that's why they got compared to Egypt and Sodom Yeah and some other cities

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That they were going to be judged him and punished because they rejected Messiah and wanted to remain in that bondage.

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Yeah, it's that of Celebrating and rejoicing in the freedom that they could find in in the

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Savior Exactly, and with all but which we know the writer of Hebrews Pretty much don't go back.

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Like it's not better. Don't go back Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith look unto him.

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Don't go back And also to something else I was thinking about this question,

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I think we really need a good biblical Anthropology to answer this question

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Anthropology just meaning the study of man But if we have a good biblical definition of anthropology or understanding of ourselves then

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We realize that we are not functioning in the way that we were created And so and we're blinded to that.

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We we want to function in a certain way because we're blinded and We don't realize that we're trying to function

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We're trying to live in a way that we were not created to live in And so true freedom comes when the veil is lifted and then when we're in Christ And then we're able to live the way we were created to live

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Period that's right. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely Who is God that I should hear his voice?

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Right. Sounds like total inability and perseverance of the Saints and if you some of y 'all

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I know know this old hymn, right? Egypt was once my home Come on, big

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John. I know you got to know this. No, I don't know this How about you Jesse? I know but I like it keep going.

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I like bluegrass was once my home I was a slave and it's sung man when you get in a country church and all the parts are sung

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Oh, man, the women will come in and they'll say helpless and send it Rome Lovelight did crave that's what the men will say and then when

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I looked up to heaven's dome Christ came to save I'm living in Canaan now living on Canaan side

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Egypt behind Lost over Jordan wide gladness to find my soul is satisfied

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No longer. I am blind Living with Jesus up in Canaan right now

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That's the picture that's given so many in so many of them old songs to it's beautiful. We need to sell that Record that little spot right there

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I Can't I can't sing a lick but here's the here's the beauty of it.

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I ain't singing to nobody but the Lord Hallelujah. Hallelujah. Okay, if you can't if you can't sing shout a man

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Can't sing good sing laugh. Hey, man Yeah, nobody can't hear you

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I Just want to remind everybody that the comment line is open. Let us know that you're watching at least say hello

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We'd love to know that you're watching Anybody else want to touch on? the freedom That Israel could have had freedom true freedom in Christ I do a little bit before I move on so something that I was talking to that to a guy at work today about was there were guys today

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So I think that oftentimes If We're not careful. We'll fall into the same trap that Israel has fell on into here

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We become a people That become so fixated on what we see And we're not really walking by faith.

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We're not really listening to see what God's wanting us to hear we we walk out of we

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God delivers us supernaturally out of sin and Then the very first thing that happens that just doesn't go our way

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We get in the mully grubs and we kick up sand and we and we cry and pout and say well I life was easier whenever I was in the world

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It was it might have been something you you felt more comfortable with because it was something you was in your whole life if we don't have if we don't have a mind and I To see the gospel and everything and see the spiritual implications behind every area every area of the exodus

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Then we do run into problems where people say well, what's the matter you're just gonna be a slave to somebody

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You're gonna be a slave to Pharaoh or a slave to Jesus, right? But but you fail to understand that in in whom

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We find ourself in servitude now. He carries the burden. That's right

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He carries us. This is not something that we are Are burdened by this is something that we're we're carried into We can't

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We truthfully can't even really be a good servant the Bible calls an unjust servant an unworthy servant or what is the term?

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Claude what is it? Not a useless but not a profitable one either the unprofitable servant

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That's little 17 is just doing what is necessary The Bible says that we're to live a holy and to be a living sacrifice under God, which is a reasonable service

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So when you consider the fact that the Christian is supposed to be bought

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Ruled by God governed by God in every area of his life But not working to do that rather.

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He's carried in that I've often thought about it like In order to go to heaven you have to be what brother

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Robert I'm saved by grace through faith. All right, that's it because the all the other alternative is to be absolutely perfect Is to be sinless, right, right and we understand that that's impossible, right?

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We understand that that is impossible and I believe that the reason it is so impossible

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To to live to God's standard is because if it wasn't this impossible There might be a chance somebody else would even dare to believe they've done it

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But someone who's truly saved Understands that this is absolutely

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Impossible apart from God. You can't walk this you can't start this in the spirit and finish it in the flesh

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This is something that is continually worked by God day in and day out the Egyptians were supernaturally kept for years day in and day out and If they fail to realize that all around them is a miracle of God in every single moment

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Mm -hmm instead they see the things they don't have But they see what the world has or they see where they haven't attained and they've yet to realize the blessing and the miracle in the every day

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That's right. He's saying truth Big John I've got an

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English dictionary. I've got a Greek dictionary and a Hebrew dictionary But I don't yet have a

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Western, North Carolina dictionary And so I just It may help me understand

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Some of what you're saying if you if you define mulligrub for us Have you ever just been tore up from the floor up about something

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You're just being upset to the point to where nothing you can't get right You'd be upset if somebody give you $100 folded the wrong way, right?

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That's mulligrubs And you know a good example is you've seen a toddler that you just can't appease

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Yeah, a toddler. There's just screaming about something and you give them a lollipop and they throw it, you know

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I mean, you say okay fine I'm not going to get that lollipop and then next thing you know, they're on the ground slobbering

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They want that old lollipop, but it's in the dirt and they put it there. You know, I mean, that's a mulligrub. That's what that is

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That was great All right, let's let's jump to the next question

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Joseph and Moses were both placed by God in very high places of government in order to bless his chosen people

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Do you think this that this strategy is a plan for God's people today? God's sovereign or he ain't

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So right here I'm going to interject I know I should shut up but I should

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I can't So here's the thing I think there's a there's a very fine line

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That we need to toe when we talk about Moses Joseph so on and so forth being placed in positions of government because they are set forth in the

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Old Testament as Pointing us to Christ types of Christ Right, and it's very easy for us to conflate their positions of authority with positions of authority today when their positions of authority were very particular and specific to Demonstrate the sovereignty of God and to demonstrate the reality of the

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Messiah that was to come in Jesus Christ Good answer I would like to go ahead and peek it back and say to answer your question sharply

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Rob. I would say no It's not God's plan to use you know use people primarily in the government to to affect his change

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Or a change now that doesn't mean God calls people into office

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God does call people into office and if you are that person

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Living a unique lifestyle studying putting in that work to become a lawyer or judge a politician per se

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Then I would say then do your vocation that vocation specifically to the glory of God use that platform to You know glorify

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God to glorify God, right? Not everybody's called in that position But there are some in the modern day who are called

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Obviously Claude mentioned William Wilberforce. Mm -hmm. He was a politician in Parliament.

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I think he was in the house I'm not sure. I forgot which one but he affected change. He was a Christian who practiced his beliefs out loud

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And imagine where the world would be without William Wilberforce in that political position, right?

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So Christians have I would say Christians who were politicians throughout history after the resurrection

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Have effective a big deal of good change in the world some better than others But the world has become a better place because there are there have been brave Christians who have stepped up in different episodes of time and Done the right thing and it was at the right time and we benefit from that And there's definitely balance there

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The power of God into salvation is the gospel First and foremost and that is that is how

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God works in people is with the gospel is with the conviction of sin Do you use another historical example here in America?

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We know Frederick Douglass. It was very influential in the Reconstruction era but there was a time when

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Frederick Douglass went overseas to UK for a time and sat under the preaching of Charles Spurgeon and They don't talk about that part in history class, but that was part of the the catalyst for him he came back to the

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States after sitting under Spurgeon's preaching for I don't know how many months and So he comes back.

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I'm talking about God's man. No, I don't want to say mandate. I'm sorry about about liberating people

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As it being part of their Christian duty sure And so I think there's balance.

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Yep, where our focus is not just to take political power But yes, there is time there are times where God uses people in that way

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But it's only as an outworking of the gospel and hearts Yeah, I would say probably we can't have a both either or on that.

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It's both and like God Obviously God the gospel goes forth and through God regenerating his elect and giving them faith and repentance

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That's how the kingdom spread. But let me Well on the other hand of that we also need to be

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Not every single one of us. I don't think I'm called to be a politician at all. I'm not politically correct at all But let me let me bring up these two texts because I didn't see this till a few years back when

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I saw it. It just kind of It was it was kind of outstanding to me, but in Psalm 2,

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I'm sure you guys are familiar with it It says to the son It says ask of me and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance.

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I'm using KJV by the way and The uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. So this is the father speaking to his son saying ask of me

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I'll give you the heathen and uttermost parts of the earth for that possession and then in verse 9 Of the same psalm.

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He says thou the father to the son thou shalt break them with a rod of iron and Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel now the

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Apostle John quotes that verse in Revelation chapter 2 and He says in Revelation 2 26

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Revelation 2 26 the Apostle John he says he that overcomes who's that?

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Well, that's the believers there and keeps my work unto the end to him while I give powers over the nations and he shall rule them with a rod of iron as the vessels of a potter shall

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They be broken to shivers even as I received of my father Jesus speaking, but he's saying to the to the one that overcomes it keeps my work to the end to him

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Well, I give power over the nations. So what he's saying is he's given the power to the church over the nations and he says and he shall rule them with a rod of iron as a vessel of potters shall they be broken to shivers even as I have received of my father so Jesus as obviously

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John's writing the book of Revelation But Jesus is speaking there and he's quoting Psalm 2 and saying that was given to me.

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I'm giving it to you church so We do as the church have power over the nations, but I believe that power to be the gospel

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Well, I Want to bring it back to Joseph and then and then

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Moses like the question is I don't disagree with everything obviously But I think that as questions posed

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Joseph Joseph Joseph isn't isn't a proclaimer of the gospel.

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The Bible calls Joseph a dreamer. He's a Favorite son. He's a lot of things

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What I see is I see that Every position that he's put in he's he's faithful to be upright and in right standing with with the

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Lord and his practice with men and There really isn't anything that can happen that will stop

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Joseph from being in the position that he's supposed to be in I See all of creation come to try to make that all of creation trying to war against What is a what is ultimately a plan that God has orchestrated way ahead of everybody's figuring

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Joseph would say in Genesis 50 verse 20 What you meant for evil

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God meant for good you you can't you can't circumvent God's sovereignty nobody here

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Would nobody here I thank you with that, right? When you see Moses similarly,

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I see the same exact thing. I see someone who's supposed to be dead, right? Who is in a position to be raised in the house?

35:08

who would who would eventually exile himself and Then God would use to come and take the people out of Egypt and they would go into the wilderness now obviously, there's there's

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I Guess you'd call him. What'd you call that? Pointing at people pointing to Christ and the likeness of Christ, you know degree

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I See that likeness of Christ more in Joshua than I see it in Moses If you want to be if you know

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I see the prophets and the law representative in Moses and Joshua being more the representative of Christ in the wilderness

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But what I can see is is more more than any of those points or or similarities that they share.

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I see where God regardless of what anybody else wants to do completely orchestrates everything up to Up to heart and Pharaoh's heart to make sure that the outcome is exactly the way that he wants it to be

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If you take that and look at that in every area Romans 13,

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I think it's Romans 13 I got pulled up somewhere here on one of these windows Let it won't be subject to the government authority so that the no authority except that which

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God has established the authorities that exist have been Established by God possibly whoever rebels against the authorities are building against against what

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God has instituted now I got some hot water for Putting the podcast up saying that there's a time whenever we can be rebellious against the government and that's whenever the government asked us to do

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Things that are clearly contrary to Scripture, right? but I think that Paul's understanding of of God's sovereignty is that I Don't care how many votes go towards one particular politician.

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God will establish in the White House whoever he wants to Mm -hmm and Like him love it.

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Hate it try to stop it You can do whatever you want to But so long as if I'm under if I'm right and I submit this to the council every word in here

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There's a lot of times I think in our Americanness and our Western attitude We feel entitled to argue with him about things and it didn't really make no difference.

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We get upset about it Get mulligraves and It is going to be the same as if we hadn't got upset about it

37:27

My daddy used to say you can get glad in the same britches. You got mad and it don't really make no difference. That's right

37:34

Hey Rob, there's a you know, amen to that. So Yeah, so, you know, I would like to play some experiments so for there are

37:42

Christians who are out there, you know that are in these Type of groups and they promote, you know a passive, you know a passive Lifestyle when it comes to engagement in culture in politics and what

37:57

I mean by passive lifestyle. I mean an aggressive Dichotomy between the physical and the spiritual

38:06

And and they you know, I Believe they're sincere but what what you know, if you you know follow that, you know path of theology to its conclusion

38:19

You see exactly where it goes when the church totally totally Steps back from the public life from the political sphere

38:28

You see what happens and you don't have to go too far away from the

38:34

Reformation period to see what happened Especially when it comes to when it came to England and when it comes to Germany You could look at those two as historical playgrounds of the ideas of for example

38:51

Calvinism and Lutheranism you will look at what the cow with what the Calvinist did in England was far better For the public life for the civil magistrate and for government then what happened in Germany What happened in Germany was a total setback.

39:08

What was a total step back from Christians? Saying we don't need to get engaged in politics

39:15

They use verses like this is not our home They use verses like God's kingdom is not of this world.

39:22

So let the King Do whatever they want in God's law, right and then way over here.

39:29

We'll do whatever we want now you fast -forward with that idea 500 years later almost 500 years later

39:38

And you get you get a fascism you get you get a Hitler Because you get the church not

39:46

Active not not being active in any public spirit if the church was don't get me wrong

39:52

Now every Lutheran was like you got Bonhoeffer stepping up Right, so but imagine if you had 20

39:58

Imagine if but imagine if you had 20 ,000 Bonhoeffer's Right imagine if you have a hundred thousand

40:05

Bonhoeffer's instead of like ten or five or one Right in Germany, you know chances are

40:11

Luther I mean chances are a Nazi Germany to that level would have never reached that climax

40:16

And it never does it never does in England, right? The worst you get is, you know,

40:22

King Henry taking away the property rights That's the worst you get but you have the hundred years war you didn't you didn't have wars

40:30

You did have the Civil War too in England But you don't have a

40:36

Nazi figure coming over and swallowing up the church You don't have that Now what we've gotten out of something or something like ten times the amount of murder of the unborn

40:48

We have something Hitler would have never even imagined in his day. We have True genocide on this world on the scale.

40:54

I can't wrap my mind around Yeah, and that's what happens when you get Christians not active and participating in civil government

41:01

Or when you get fake Christians up in there, you know compromising So I would encourage more

41:07

Christians to you know, get their act together be mature get that law degree and get those votes and Participate at the very minimum participate as Christians because yes, we you know, we see in history

41:21

What happens when when good Christian generals? Become leaders of armies

41:27

You know, they said no. No, we're not gonna kill all these guys. We're gonna take them as prisoners We're gonna treat them, right?

41:33

We're gonna give them food, right? And what happens when the fascists take prisoners the generals they put them against the wall and they shoot them all

41:43

Right, and the Protestants didn't do that, right Americans didn't do that when the general

41:49

Patton and all them guys they didn't do that. Yeah. Yeah from what

41:55

I'm seeing What you're talking about? Jesse to me is explaining what

42:01

Jeremy was saying in the verses that he was reading because he was Jeremy was talking about Jesus and Revelation speaking to the church that he's giving to them what

42:10

God was giving to him kind of like His conversation with the disciples. Yeah earlier, but We can misunderstand that to where When we say

42:22

God is giving The nation's to the church or the church is to be an influence to the nations are over the nations

42:30

That doesn't mean that We take up an offering and we raise money and we buy this new

42:35

Digital sign out front to where we are, you know speaking to the world, you know from our four walls

42:43

No, we are the church. The people are the church So what you're saying

42:49

Jesse is we we the people we individuals need to be involved in being

42:56

Christ influencers Christ ambassadors to use biblical language in those realms

43:04

And so I think that was a beautiful explanation of that text. Yeah, exactly The state is nothing but a deacon in God's kingdom the state the state serves the church in a weird way

43:18

Yeah, the the the state has a relationship a Very healthy one with the church right where there's distinctions.

43:27

There's a little separation But there's there's not too far separation where we like, what did the state go?

43:34

You know and there's not enough involvement where the government comes in and does you know shuts the churches down for example

43:42

But there is a healthy relationship there and we work in league in concert We are servants

43:49

God give the church his officers right and God gave the state their officers

43:56

But yeah, they're supposed to put on the bad guys, you know, I mean, they're supposed to put on the bad guys protect You know in chapter 23 of the

44:03

West West it says it is the duty of civil magistrates to protect the persons and good name of all their people so the government has a

44:14

Like a like a very big important duty to do And this idea where you know the libertarian idea where the government is supposed to be so small so we don't do nothing

44:29

It makes a very poor Anemic deacon imagine having a deacon at church.

44:35

That's so skinny and weak and sick all the time doesn't show up. That's answer phone calls Like what kind of deacon at church would that be?

44:44

Maybe you need to replace that deacon Well, you have to be careful now if you if you run if you start running that that logic to its natural conclusion then you wind up with a

44:55

Government that is so large that it thinks it's God and it starts to dictate what is right and what is wrong

45:00

You said a very perfectly adequate statement when you said that they're supposed to punish the bad guys

45:08

There's by that statement Which we all know to be perfectly valid I mean somebody has to say what's bad you have to have a defining characteristic of what is bad so that we know what to punish and what not to punish and You cannot look to society to dictate what is right and what is wrong.

45:28

Otherwise you get a fascist Germany It's all right because they've got law says it's all right.

45:34

Just cause something's lawful. Don't make it right in this country It's all right at a certain age to butcher the child, right?

45:42

You're right to do so and the idea of a giant government is not biblical as the same idea as a tiny government

45:52

Anemic it cannot even protect its people, right? So you do wanna Like a like a healthy balance there.

45:59

That's why you need Christians That's why you need powerful Christians in place to to preach that kind of message

46:06

I think too. I want to interject a an important distinction here because I think it's it's necessary Yes, I would say

46:18

I would say yes, we do need Christians in government But at and at the same time we need to keep in the forefront of our minds the understanding that Government like John just said

46:34

John just said Government is not the fix for it and and our focus

46:40

I think a lot of times the focus drifts when we start talking about Christians in politics We start thinking this is the way that will fix the world

46:48

We'll just get Christians in politics, but that's not the way the world is fixed So I think the distinction always needs to be there needs to be a stick in the mud like what

46:57

I'm being right now that says Understand that's good. And that's great.

47:03

However Politics ain't gonna fix anything The chief goal the chief aim is the proclamation of the gospel and that is done by the church

47:16

Amen. Yeah, I was gonna I was going to add to that that I think those Christians in government should be preaching the gospel

47:23

It's not just that you're there Doing this stuff. They should be preaching the gospel That's you know, actually,

47:30

I mean Few times will before so I mean that's what drove him was the gospel.

47:37

Mm -hmm Can I just I want to add one more thing to this discussion before we go move on I don't it's once again a scripture because but I think it's it's a pretty cool little thing right here

47:50

You know in Daniel 2 There's a prophecy and it says in verse 44 and then the days of these kings shall the

47:59

God of heaven set up his kingdom when we Historically, we know that this kingdom that God set up was set up during the the

48:07

Roman rule, right? The Roman Kingdom that was the the last kingdom that was there that God during that Roman rule

48:15

God will set up his kingdom Which shall never be destroyed and the kingdom shall not be left to other people

48:23

But it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms and it shall stand forever so the picture that's given there is during the

48:32

Roman Kingdom God's going to set up a kingdom this happened in the first century and and then he says that that in that that the

48:41

God's kingdom is going to break into pieces and consume all those other kingdoms and This is one things.

48:47

I was reading just about a month ago. I kind of made me chuckle a little bit It was almost like Paul gave a little

48:54

Slap in the face to Nero before Nero killed him but in Philippians chapter 4

49:01

Paul says Paul closes the the book by saying all the Saints salute you

49:08

Chiefly they that are of Caesar's household It was almost like a slap in the face to Nero and it's a fulfillment of Daniel chapter 2

49:16

He said Daniel chapter 2 tells us while Rome is set up as a kingdom. God was gonna set up his kingdom

49:21

It was gonna consume them and then Paul goes. Yep Nero even in your household we got

49:27

Saints And that's what that's what we're supposed to do The emphasis there

49:32

I think would be the Saints that they're actually Saints. They're holy ones of God. They're there. They're preaching the gospel

49:39

They're not just they're taking up a space saying they're a politician getting paid for it. They're actually they're preaching the gospel

49:48

Claude I appreciate what you said and you you were two things for me and what you were saying

49:54

First of all, I think you were you were our gutter guards And I think you're I think you're exactly right because and this can happen with any conversation or or any topic

50:03

I mean we we can solely focus on that topic or that issue and just you know

50:10

Go way out of bounds and and forget everything else and and we can do the same thing with with politics

50:16

We can get so focused on politics that we think it's gonna be our Savior and so I appreciate you being our gutter guards there and I think that's one of the

50:25

To me anyway One of the purposes of starting these podcasts is that we want to help people to have a biblical

50:34

Worldview a biblical understanding of all aspects of life, you know, he's just 415 we are to grow up in in all aspects into Christ who was the head and so not just be

50:46

Consumed in in one area and the other thing is

50:52

Is you set up a good advertisement for the laborers conference 2023 That's at the end of April because that's what we're gonna be talking about.

51:00

We're gonna be talking about Christ authority in all of heaven and all of earth in all aspects of life

51:08

Not all of them because we don't have enough time But but a lot of them a lot of aspects of our lives

51:14

We're gonna be talking about Christ authority and submitting to that authority. I mean these different aspects of our lives so that we're not

51:22

Under balanced in in our world view or over balanced So I appreciate that really really do

51:31

Oh We're running out of time. So yeah, oh my goodness in this question. Next question is gonna get into a lot

51:42

They they could be they could be So I do want to We'll skip that one we'll go to the next one this one could be its own episode as well

51:53

But we do have represented here different denominational perspectives. So I know it can't be lengthy but Throw out a perspective on this question

52:05

From from your perspective so we can everybody can study be a Berena and study for yourself and hear the different perspectives

52:12

So six days you shall do your work on the seventh day. You shall cease your work And then you have remember this out of the day.

52:19

Keep it. Holy What's the Christians view on the Sabbath? I Know my my grandparents my great -grandparents as Baptist I would say that they held more of the

52:36

Presbyterian view where You you don't mow grass You don't do anything

52:43

You you physically rest on Sunday Sunday was the Christian Sabbath and then now

52:53

More Baptist have drifted away from that. But I think the Presbyterian view is is still more we honor the

53:00

Sabbath day spiritually and physically so Jesse Tyler, do you want you want to go first and kind of give us the

53:09

More accurate than I can give perspective on Well, to be honest

53:14

I've been wrestling with Sabbatarianism for a while. I've not been sold on that one, but I'm finding it really hard to Throw it out the window.

53:24

So I'd be very interested in what brother Jesse has to say on the Sabbath Yeah, so the

53:31

Sabbath is a sacred day that began at and creation

53:36

Where God created the world and everything in it and then on the sixth day rested

53:46

Created everything and then rested and then he separated that day I mean on the seventh day my back on the seventh day.

53:53

He rested and then he hollowed it so even from the beginning of time you see a concept a

54:02

You know like a set -apart day that God creates in it

54:07

And that's before the law of Moses. That's before the Decalogue We see that And that tells us many things about God's character that tells us of many things about God's You know nature and how he views days and all these things and then you fast -forward to you know

54:26

Moses and you still see it Only this time you see it set in stone.

54:32

You see it You know memorialize sort of say and then you go to the time of Jesus and You still see it.

54:45

You still see it Jesus honors the Sabbath because if he broke the

54:50

Sabbath Then he's a sinner and if he's a sinner Then he's not a savior

54:56

So if he's a total perfect Savior Jesus kept the Sabbath 100 % just like he didn't lie

55:04

Like he never stole like he never murdered anybody in his thoughts those type of things so in the

55:11

Gospels You see the the Sabbath being upheld perfectly at all times by Jesus and it is who?

55:19

Breaking it it is actually those supposedly keeping it. That's breaking it the

55:25

Pharisees You see the Pharisees breaking it and Jesus correcting them time and time again like you guys are making traditions on the

55:33

Sabbath You guys are putting smaller things and you guys are killing ants with hammers kind of thing

55:40

And he's basically saying I'm the Lord of the Sabbath I created Sabbath is is directed for me my worship my people my communion with them and you guys are breaking it and Then you still see the

55:54

Sabbath After Jesus ascends into heaven So even after you see

55:59

Jesus go up into heaven You still see the brothers the church meeting meeting on the

56:06

Lord's Day And you sweet you you see that switch from Saturday to Sunday When is the beginning day of the

56:12

Lord on the beginning day of the week? and then they say they met together on the Lord's Day the day when the day on when the

56:18

Lord died and that and You still see the Lord's Sabbath Being honored even after the

56:26

Apostles so you from from from Genesis all the way Until today you still you still see the concept before the law

56:38

After Moses when Jesus Jesus kept the Sabbath During the Apostles kept the

56:43

Sabbath. We kept the Sabbath To this day because of that pattern now the differences would be

56:51

Sure, I should I throw a volleyball, you know, should I should I feed my pigs?

56:58

that the The tradition I mean the the idea behind the Sabbath is is rest

57:04

That that's the kind of rest like stop It should rest doesn't mean you get tired rest doesn't mean the biblical idea of rest

57:14

Is that you stop what you're doing? You just stop that doesn't mean you're tired. It just means you didn't stop

57:20

So if you need to feed your pigs and feed your cattle you need to feed them on on the day before the

57:26

Sabbath before Sunday because if you're working on the Sabbath Many Christians believe this and you're not resting.

57:36

You're not giving you're not dedicating an entire day to the Lord You're you're you're still economically consume in your work

57:45

Even though if you don't make money, you know, so And Jesus brought this to mind to the

57:52

Pharisees. He's like sure should I not save my cattle if they're dying and Like no,

57:57

I'm gonna go save my cattle and the Pharisees are like, no, you can't do that. That's work. It's like no, it's not so That that's where we get, you know at our traditions on top of that and I would say that the

58:11

Sabbath to the historical reform position is It still is still is here and that you still need to honor the

58:20

Lord and rest From all your work and by you keeping it doesn't mean you keep the law but you rest and honor today because the

58:28

Lord created it way before the law of Moses and is an eternal law and Heaven gives you the idea of Eden of an eternal

58:36

Sabbath. That's what heaven is is an eternal Sabbath I appreciate that. You said that Perpetual perpetual rest.

58:43

Yeah, you're right. I mean because when the Genesis account I mean we we we think that because the scriptures are written in Anthropomorphic terms right terms in language and under in a way that we can understand it

58:58

That this is what God does that he just began which starts the cycle over at the beginning of the next week

59:04

But the scripture says six days in six days the Lord created the heavens in the earth and on the sixth day

59:11

He rested Boom done. That's a that's the perpetual statute.

59:16

Jesse was talking about right Jesse. No, absolutely Because what once you start playing with the you know

59:24

You know all that that's God's law and I don't need to do it Then you really do have a lot to answer for because God's laws

59:31

God's law and there's a lot of laws So it's like should I not kill like oh, well duh

59:39

Well, I'm gonna rest I'm gonna rest and I think the idea of the

59:45

Sabbath comes back to what we were talking about with question one about Freedom and bondage of it's not a cultural norm.

59:53

It is strange to us It is it's often it's foreign to us and it feels like a restriction

59:59

But I think what Knox is articulating quite well is that this idea of resting in God is actually more freeing than the alternative

01:00:09

And of course, I'm going to come from a more Baptistic interpretation but in an agreement with what you guys are saying,

01:00:16

I will I will say this resting physically is spiritually honoring to God Because if you're continuously working you're not you're not trusting in a sovereignty

01:00:33

You know, you're trying to accomplish something and if it's if that's your heart motivation, of course but if you're continually trying to work trying to Advance and do stuff on your own and you're not trusting in the sovereignty of God then, you know, you're in the wrong place but when you can physically stop and rest and say

01:00:57

God's in control. I want to trust in him. Then we're honoring him spiritually if that makes sense right, because you got to understand the

01:01:07

Like the whole purpose for the Sabbath like why is the Sabbath like what's the goal?

01:01:13

Right. It's not just a rest in that direction, right? It's not just a rest from your mechanics right like fixing your your engine.

01:01:20

That's not resting like oh, well, it's therapeutic No, it's not you're still working with your hands.

01:01:26

You're still out there Changing the oil on a Sunday. That's not restful. Like well, I'm not at work.

01:01:32

I'm resting. That's not restful the whole purpose for the Sabbath is

01:01:38

To to you know to keep it about God, you know to make God holy You know to it's all about him basically and whenever we're not about him on that one particular day

01:01:50

We're not making it about him we're not talking about him We're not like going home and talking about the sermon reading family worship singing.

01:01:58

You're not continuing that That joyful attitude of man.

01:02:03

Look what God did for me Let me remember that one time when I was 13, I got busted blah blah blah man

01:02:11

I could have died whatever blah blah blah, but look at me now Because of God right those kind of conversations is supposed to be like perpetual throughout the whole day

01:02:21

You know, I mean just read I think there's a certain sections in the book of Psalms called the

01:02:26

Psalms of ascent Do you know what those were used for On the way up on the way up baby on the way up and there's a bunch of them

01:02:38

And on the way up your whole family The whole caravan is singing because it's preparing your heart for worship and in traditional reform

01:02:46

Presbyterian churches we like to order the the you know, the worship as As you know part of your day to get you going, you know, there's a call to worship

01:02:57

There's a confession time like if you look up the liturgy the structure of worship You'll notice very clearly that you'll see that preparedness like hey

01:03:07

This is the time that we're gonna this is the call to worship. This is an official calling That now church is going to begin right and then when when you get the benediction

01:03:19

Go in God's blessing or for your work week, right? so Yeah Chapter 22 paragraph 8 of the 1689 which is going to say virtually the same thing as the 1646

01:03:35

I'm sorry, not that I'm the Westminster, but the Sabbath is kept Holy to the

01:03:42

Lord when people first prepared their hearts just like what Jesse's saying and arranged their everyday affairs in advance

01:03:48

Then they observe a holy rest all day from their own words from their own words their own thoughts about their secular employment employment recreation and not only that but they also feel the whole time with public and private acts of worship and the duties of necessity and mercy

01:04:07

That's one thing I hate about capitalism bro, if I hit anything about capitalism is that they don't care about the

01:04:13

Sabbath man I get it money for Chick -fil -a Chick -fil -a Chick -fil -a honors

01:04:20

Capitalism and they honor the Lord and there's many businesses that do so don't give me don't give me on that But what

01:04:26

I mean, I work for a company that's closed on Sundays. I'm talking about mainstream capitalism like the NFL McDonald's, you know those kind of companies and it's like they cannot rest because the moment they arrest they lose money

01:04:39

Like that kind of capitalism and that's like I'm all for capitalism, but that kind of stuff

01:04:46

Like that's dishonoring to the Lord's like to the max, bro Like if anything wants to upset the

01:04:52

Lord is his is his day And playing football like imagine that the

01:04:58

NFL shut down on a Sunday Like I wonder how many guys would would lose it like like lose their mind and then get over it

01:05:08

Right, but like they should just move the games to like a Friday night and Thursday night

01:05:13

Monday night Whatever and just honor the Lord, you know, there's a time in this country where a lot, you know, largely we we honor the

01:05:20

Lord at least on the surface, but yeah, so that's my my little pet peeve against capitalism if I have any critiques on it is

01:05:29

They just you know, a lot of the people who want to make money. They don't really don't care about Sunday Sunday is another day, you know,

01:05:37

I just another money day. I Think the secular theologians Iron Maiden put it this way.

01:05:44

There's no rest for the weak Iron Maiden is

01:05:51

Yeah, my older brother's favorite band growing up Yeah, but there is further for for those who repent and trust in Jesus Yes, because if you are wicked which we are and you live that blues cocaine lifestyle

01:06:12

There is no rest for you There is no rest. There's no rest in cocaine. There's no rest for you and singing the blues all day long

01:06:20

What there is rest in Jesus? There is rest in the Sabbath day as well when you rest in Jesus and rest on his day

01:06:29

Change your life You'll change your life. Once you start taking the Sabbath day. Seriously remember we're whole

01:06:35

Bible Christians That's all you know read it holy and you and you will you know eventually

01:06:41

Become more like it. So Jesse and I will be sitting down to talk about that this coming Tuesday on the bread of the word podcast

01:06:50

Nice plug there. I like that So Jeremy called

01:06:55

John from a Baptist or church of God perspective Would you tweak that as you were teaching that to your congregation?

01:07:02

Oh, yeah. Okay. I would do For sure, I believe that well,

01:07:08

I understand at least I think I understand everything that brother Jesse's saying I believe that the

01:07:16

Sabbath and then Jesus is teaching on it as well as Hebrews chapter 4

01:07:23

For his free said somewhere concerning the Sabbath day I'm reading four and four and God rested on the seventh day from all his works and again the passage

01:07:30

They shall enter my rest therefore since there remains for some to enter it Those formerly had good news preached to them fail because of this disobedience

01:07:39

He again fixes a certain day today saying that through David after so long the time just as it has been said before today

01:07:46

If you hear his voice, do not harden his hearts for Joshua had given them rest He would have not spoken of another day after that.

01:07:54

So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people For the people of God for the one who has entered in his rest

01:08:01

He is with a capital H mind you has himself also rested from his works as God did from his

01:08:08

So I really believe that a New Testament filtering of this scripture is one where the

01:08:16

Sabbath as it's being taught especially being taught in the Old Testament is really just a

01:08:22

Hearkening to the miracle of salvation and how salvation is only wrought in faith alone and especially not from any of our own works and I think that that's why we don't see any more of the feasts that the

01:08:40

Jews That were supposed to keep forever like in the Passover or the New Moons or any of these others

01:08:45

They were all answered in and lived out in the personal work of Jesus Christ and he is the one that all these things were just things that point to him and ultimately a

01:08:59

While there's nothing wrong. I don't don't give me wrong brother Jesse. There's nothing wrong. I think with all with with taking a day and Setting aside the whole day to worship

01:09:08

God and do nothing else. I'm all about that I ain't a problem with that one. So whatsoever. I do think though that that the proper reading of Scripture is one

01:09:16

Interpreted spiritually, I believe that that entire the entire portion of that is so that we

01:09:21

I mean this whole book is pointing to Christ And I Think that the majesty of the gospel is spelled out by God making sure that we understand that this

01:09:33

Sabbath He's talking about is the rest He said he's the Lord of the Sabbath that he didn't make the Sabbath for people or how is he worded?

01:09:40

Oh God made the Sabbath But yeah, so He saves men

01:09:50

And this is a work of God purely of God And I think that if you're gonna adhere to these this more confessional form that brother

01:09:58

Jesse and brother Tyler are here to I think that the heart of that or the motivation of that ought to be

01:10:05

That in honor of the gospel in honor of the saving work of Christ on the lost and on the wicked

01:10:11

We set this time aside, but just like we've rested from our works and rested in his salvation

01:10:16

I don't think that the adherence to that in the physical sense alone is going to give you any more righteousness than any other kind Of adherence to any other mosaic law or custom.

01:10:27

I would say that's why I started with creation And not with the mosaic law. I understand.

01:10:33

That's why I use this Why use a Hebrews 4 when I said he has said concerning the seventh day God rested from all his works now

01:10:39

He's quoting from Psalm 95 there, but also he's quoting from Genesis. This has been the promise of God from day six

01:10:46

Right, which was my point proves that it's the natural law of God So by the nation of the world has been accomplished by by natural by the law of nature though God is setting the the

01:10:59

God is putting his his holy day into the very law of nature

01:11:06

Outside of the mosaic law outside of the customs of Israel outside Listen to my gravity, you know, listen what you're saying, bro.

01:11:18

Listen how you worded that Outside of the mosaic law. That's not the custom the salvation is

01:11:26

Wrought in Christ alone. There's there's right, but I'm not talking about salvation I'm talking about the

01:11:31

Lord's Day when he hollows it and makes it holy and he says this is my day We'll take more time to talk about this another time

01:11:41

Because I'm not saying that you keep the Sabbath therefore you go to heaven or you'd be saying I didn't

01:11:46

I don't want to say That that's what you were saying. What I'm saying is that the Sabbath by my understanding is

01:11:55

Is God making sure you understand the gospel from Genesis chapter 1 That this is that this is the point of it.

01:12:04

I think that the most important thing that we understand or what we that governs our life in terms of scriptures our motivations and and while you know

01:12:15

Even down to why we read the Bible we read in the Bible because we love the Lord and want to learn from it or We're reading the Bible to gain to gain talking points

01:12:22

You know, there's there's motivation is important by what we what we do and and respectfully I disagree with you

01:12:28

Although I do value your opinion Right. That's why in the beginning

01:12:33

God sets he sets he sets up the thing called time that that goals and ticks kind of like gravity and he says that in this time and Space I have a day for me

01:12:45

And it's tattooed in the very fabric of the universe and it's my day and you shall keep it

01:12:53

Perpetually for all time it's binding just like gravity and God is saying that it doesn't save you and he knows our hearts his ways are not our ways and He's basically saying that if you love me you will keep my commandments and like you said earlier one of you said that his commandments are light and That's why our hearts are filled with busyness and and and the heaviness of life and that's why he calls us to repent because he knows that his yolks are light and he says that His burdens are light and when we rest that's why he says rest on that day because he knows

01:13:35

He knows people he knows that we're gonna be busy All kinds of busyness.

01:13:41

So that's why he says that that day of rest is not just like a recreational rest or like like You know a vacation

01:13:47

But it's a rest in me Just that one day that is perpetual

01:13:54

Until the end of time until that time stops Well, let me go let me

01:14:01

I haven't said much on this I just kind of been listening to it But I'm somewhat of a maybe a hybrid between those two views

01:14:10

Our church holds to the 1646 London Baptist and that's one of the reasons why we hold to it because we're not

01:14:18

Sabbatarians, but I do see a day of rest in a natural law

01:14:25

As Jesse is Jesse, right? Yes As he said that but I don't see it as a

01:14:32

Sabbath. I don't see that the Sabbath brought out until the Mosaic law and and One of the things that even going back when back 2004 2005 when

01:14:44

I really began to dig into the word I'd hear people speak about the Sabbath and I never see anybody prove the

01:14:49

Sabbath from the New Covenant Now one of the one of the texts that I would

01:14:56

Go to is Colossians 2 16 and 17 It says let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink or in respect of any holy day

01:15:05

Or the new moon or of the Sabbath which are shadow of things to come but the body is

01:15:12

Christ so what I would see is the the the Sabbath in and of itself was established in a

01:15:19

Mosaic The Sabbath the term Sabbath was established in the Mosaic now there was a day of rest in the beginning and I still would say as Christians and you you did this and it's funny because A lot of people that say they hold to the

01:15:34

Sabbath say the Lord's Day now and I'd say the Lord's Day But I say the

01:15:39

Lord's Day because the New Covenant I believe establishes a Lord's Day not a Sabbath The Sabbath was

01:15:44

Saturday. And as you quoted the verse he said it was it was to be set up Forever the

01:15:50

Sabbath wasn't to be set up forever. So if it's always The Sabbath is a Saturday Then you should be worshiping on Saturday And you should have that day of rest on a

01:16:00

Saturday where when we come to the New Covenant We do see the believers coming together on the first day of the week on the

01:16:07

Lord's Day in worshiping I don't believe we're under a law in the

01:16:12

New Covenant to like to Establish the

01:16:18

Sabbath like they had under the the old but I read in a day of worship a day of But I wouldn't

01:16:27

I personally would never call it the Sabbath. I just called the Lord's Day If you look at our YouTube thing,

01:16:32

I mean it says Lord's Day sermons. That's what that's what we would hold to and I would see

01:16:38

I mean, this is a discussion that would that could take two hours and there's a lot of text we could go to and I mean we could take two hours and I could talk for an hour of it, but You know that text it says which these things are a shadow

01:16:55

The writer Hebrews uses the same language in Hebrews 10 when he's speaking about the law

01:17:00

Which is where the Sabbath was brought up through and he says the exact same thing He says it's a shadow and Christ is a fulfillment.

01:17:07

That's why I'd say would like big John I would say no Christ is my Sabbath. I would say personally if you'd ask me

01:17:14

I would say Christ is my justification my righteousness my sanctification. He's my risk Yes, yes.

01:17:20

Yeah. Yeah, right But those spiritual things though, I would challenge you those spiritual things has embodiments

01:17:29

So that's why we do like for example Embodiment things so that's why the invisible word.

01:17:37

I mean, that's why the visible word becomes invisible At the Lord's table.

01:17:42

So you both you have both you have invisible things Right, that means things that are shadows that are types that are representatives

01:17:50

Right. The Lord's blood is not real blood is wine represents things but the embodiment of those

01:17:58

We have those clear commands in Scripture, right? But but the embodiments of those spiritual the spiritualization of Christianity is

01:18:07

You you do need to take it and you do need to show up to take it so I would caution the hermeneutic there of spiritualizing the

01:18:19

Sabbath because you get a memorialization only of like this is just me memorizing the

01:18:26

Lord's table has nothing to do for me doesn't do anything and You know the Sabbath doesn't mean anything.

01:18:32

It's just me Remembering the Lord thing means a whole lot. I think it means Christ and my rest is in Christ, right?

01:18:41

But I like I said, I'm still somewhat like on the Lord's Day Pretty much what

01:18:47

I do is obviously we have church and I'm a pastor there So I'd we we partake in that and we're not

01:18:53

I don't go to work or anything on those days I those days are go to church fellowship with believers have lunch together fellowship with believers, you know, so I'm in practice mean you probably do this about the same thing, but I Would say

01:19:08

I wouldn't call the Sabbath and so that's because the Sabbath was a Saturday I'm I looked at from More probably spiritual.

01:19:17

But one of the things that I would can I would always Can always say do at least

01:19:23

I think I have brother Robert if I'm telling wrong you stop me you this is your outfit, right? Live out your convictions, right

01:19:33

Live out your convictions All I say is that if if you're going to be a man who says on Sunday We're gonna rest then

01:19:41

I pray that you live out your convictions and that you don't go anywhere where you make someone else work

01:19:48

And that you you know, and if you want to take it to the nth level, I work for the electric company Basically guys guys have to work to keep the lights on while people sit at the house and read their

01:19:56

Bibles by lights There's people who look at hospitals who I I worked I worked weekends for years with no choice whatsoever

01:20:03

I mean, I could quit. I mean effectively I could quit But then if I'm not providing for my family

01:20:10

I'm worse than unbeliever and part of this podcast point is to talk to people and work through relevant scriptures, right?

01:20:17

Brother Robert, that's right that we can use how do we apply this to our life? And I think that if if we lead people to believe that Not not taking

01:20:28

Sunday and Separating Sunday from the rest of the days and calling it the Lord's Day, which I'm fine with live out your conviction

01:20:34

We just got to make sure that you temper that With the spiritual implications of it because if we're going to say the seventh day is a natural day

01:20:43

Then what is the eighth day? Brother called hit on it We never see any other indication after after Genesis 7 when

01:20:51

God rested from all his works The greatest work that the Christ has ever wrought is salvation

01:20:59

Period Period salvation has been established since the foundation of the earth Jesus wasn't reeling and wringing his hands whenever Adam dropped the ball.

01:21:08

He wasn't fretting about The garden this has all been well firmly established as a predetermined council according to Scripture from from eternities past That this salvation would be perfect that it would be complete in the personal work of Christ and that rest is holy absolutely, holy both whole with a

01:21:30

W and whole with a capital H and and leave So That's why

01:21:38

I say that if you don't Stop right there. I'm gonna respectfully Agree with you brother disagree with your brother

01:21:46

Jason. Yeah, I want to clear up the rhetoric like I'm not disagreeing on calling it That's fine.

01:21:52

You want to call it the Christian Sabbath? That's fine in the New Testament They do call it the Sabbath the

01:21:58

Lord's Day. So I'm not agreeing with that That's totally fine If you want to call it the Lord's Day because that language is used in the

01:22:06

New Testament You want to call it the Christian Sabbath? That's totally fine if you want to do calculations on Jesus died on the

01:22:13

Thursday night and he was dead Friday And then he resurrected on honors on like the

01:22:19

Saturday midnight whatever Yeah, it's the fourth commandment.

01:22:24

The fourth commandment still stands and we still hold it until the end of time And the truth that like you you use the term clearing up the rhetoric.

01:22:33

I think that was key right there I think this could be summed up with saying this that It is synonymous what we're talking about, right?

01:22:42

Whatever term we're using here We are talking about a synonymous synonymous terms words that point to the same thing

01:22:50

It is the day in which we as believers worship God Yeah That goes without saying of course, we do it every day.

01:23:00

But still we're talking about a set -aside day. Yeah But and I was kind of going in that Direction as well and I wanted to say

01:23:08

John I appreciated the point that you made because yes that is one of the one of the points and the aims of us getting together is

01:23:16

Is to show unity in disagreement and still loving one another and honoring one another's conscience

01:23:24

Yeah, because we because we all believe that each other's is orthodox here We hold to the core foundations of the faith.

01:23:30

And so we love each other. We trust each other and We honor each other's conscience as we show unity in disagreement and talking through these things.

01:23:38

So, you know That's why I love you guys so much and I appreciate how you handle yourselves in these

01:23:45

Disagreements, it's beautiful. It's wonderful. I think it honors Christ We're being

01:23:50

Christ ambassadors by doing that showing that unity in him Exampling him in that and you know,

01:23:57

Dan and I have had this conversation about the Sabbath a few times not too many Because you know, he's coming from the

01:24:03

Presbyterian perspective I'm coming from the Baptist perspective and he he brings out Hebrews to prove his point and Before you know,

01:24:11

I turned to Hebrews Before I even knew that you were going there John and I would kind of combine both of both of what you guys were saying

01:24:20

We got one side on the spiritual side and one side All the Presbyterians still believe in resting in Jesus Absolutely, but they also want to speak to honoring it physically

01:24:33

So bringing those two together, you know, I see in verse 7 of Hebrews 4 God is has the ability to Establish and I think he does that in verse 7 of the spiritual and physical.

01:24:48

He says he again he again Fixes a certain day.

01:24:55

So there's the physical And what day is that? It's the day and that's what Claude was saying every day.

01:25:01

That's right. Today is the day So we honor Christ every day And so there's the fear physical and then you have the spiritual as well and so and I think

01:25:16

Ultimately, like Claude was trying to summarize there. We both are we both are coming together

01:25:21

But we believe in rest and how rest honors physical rest honors God Um Spiritual rest in Christ honors

01:25:29

God and so there's so much unity there right in both sides it's very important to to You know to not be 100 % spiritual and not to be 100 % physical

01:25:44

Right because once you do either or there's ditches You want to embody like you said you want to be you want to have both you want to embody the spiritual?

01:25:53

You love the Lord, okay, great. What what do you do now? We'll go home pick up your mat and go home

01:26:01

Go go and send no more. Otherwise Pick up your man. Go home the way. What are you doing here?

01:26:06

Go? So embody what you believe right? Don't don't be like James the book of James, you know Don't look at yourself and be like, oh,

01:26:13

I'm a Christian alone Then you walk away and you live your life and you forget that you're a Christian, right?

01:26:18

Like the book of James says, you know We are called to practice what we believe and and and practice it

01:26:26

Well to the glory of God and whatever you do eat or drink to the glory of God, right?

01:26:31

I saw the day of Gloria and in resting in your Christ right in resting in Jesus do it all to the glory of God but You need to do it for God, you know and Yeah, so Embodiment of what we believe is super important, right?

01:26:50

let's let's end with the gospel again a gospel in prayer and instead of calling on one specific person if anybody is itching right now because the the last question was and I want to try to do this with with every book the the tabernacle is such a large portion of Exodus and So if anybody's itching if you studied up on this and you're wanting to share the gospel tonight

01:27:16

Take take your turn share the gospel From if you just finished preaching on the tabernacle and how the tabernacle points to Christ So I know we're all polite here want to give everybody else a turn

01:27:32

But if you're just itching to share if you've been thinking about it I tell you brother Jeremy didn't get to speak much tonight.

01:27:38

I'd like to hear him do it I would I Did study up a little bit on this before before we hopped in here, but You know, it says

01:27:51

I put a couple verses on here John chapter 1 which I don't even

01:27:56

I don't really need to turn to him because I know him and I'm sure you guys know Him but John chapter 1 in verse 1

01:28:01

He says in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was

01:28:07

God obviously, we are I'm sure we all know that that it actually means God was the or God is the

01:28:13

Word that They are saying halagas is God is the Word. So and then you drop down to verse 14 and He says and the

01:28:21

Word became flesh And dwelt among us. Yes but the the so the the

01:28:28

Word was God in the beginning was the Word and the Word was God and He came down and took on flesh

01:28:35

We can clearly see that the gospel is starting to be played out right there that God the

01:28:41

Son came down took on flesh was born of a virgin He took on flesh and it says he dwelt among us that that word means tabernacled among us

01:28:49

So he tabernacled among us just like the the the tabernacle in the Old Covenant where they went to worship

01:28:55

He came down and tabernacled among us God tabernacled with his people as it

01:29:00

John 114 and He fulfilled that law like we never got into the

01:29:06

Covenant of Works and stuff that we had on here But but I personally believe that he fulfilled that covenant. He fulfilled all those those laws and By doing that he earned

01:29:17

Righteousness for his people without if you just say and I've heard people do this. They preach the gospel

01:29:23

They preach about the death of Jesus Christ, and sometimes they stop right there and it's like that's not the gospel

01:29:28

It's not that the death of Jesus Christ is not the gospel The gospel is that Christ came down born of a virgin fulfilled the law for us and earned righteousness for us

01:29:38

Then went to the cross and died for us. He tabernacled among his people. He fulfilled the law for his people

01:29:44

He died on a Roman cross for his people three days later. He rose from the grave

01:29:52

To the right hand of the father and then Though that word tabernacle is only used by John and in the

01:29:59

New Covenant And it's only used there in John chapter 1 and verse 14 And it's used a few times in the book of Revelation without going through all the like I think four times in Revelation I'm gonna go to one of them and It's Revelation 21 3 and he says and I heard a loud voice from the throne saying behold

01:30:16

The tabernacle of God is among men and he shall dwell among them and they shall be his people and God himself

01:30:25

Shall be among them man That is that is the blessing that of the the New Covenant that I don't know how many of us here are pastors

01:30:32

But that's what we ought to be bringing forth on Sunday mornings is that God is in our midst

01:30:37

He's he's dwelling among his people. He's here now with us. He's not a distant God.

01:30:42

He's here with us That's right here to worship him right now. Amen. I'm a man.

01:30:47

Hmm Tyler would you mind to close us in prayer? Father God we come to you having been fed

01:30:58

Having been sharpened having been challenged having fellowshipped with each other around your word as Diverse brothers who are united in the gospel of God That you have tabernacled with us

01:31:14

And we are grateful for that gospel that you have so Graciously reminded of us of in this last hour

01:31:22

God may you burn that anew in our hearts tonight And we may take it out with us into the world

01:31:29

Into the world you made To the world you've put us in and have called us to walk in In Christ's name.

01:31:37

Amen Thank you brothers for your contributions I love you, and I appreciate you and we thank you guys for watching and listening and supporting the labors podcast and the truth

01:31:49

I love network. We hope to see you real soon You Thank you for joining the laborers podcast

01:31:57

Remember Jesus is King live in the victory of Christ Speak with the authority of Christ and go share the gospel of Christ.