The Laborers' Podcast- Exodus

Welcome to the laborers podcast. Thank you for joining us tonight. Tonight will be a laborers overview of Exodus.

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Now, let's join our laborers for tonight's broadcast.

Welcome back to the laborers podcast. We are joined by the laborers that we have tonight are big John real talk with big John called Ramsey here I stand. Theology podcast. Jeremy and faith faith reformed right yeah reformed Baptist Church and.

And Tyler no, we bread of the word podcast and joining us now is The Chicano nuts. Yo, yo, what's going on. Bible Theory podcast? Going on y 'all. What's that? What's up? Before we get started. I like to get this out of the way, but it's so so important to me to partner and show unity.

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So it's really really cool. It's good resource. Exodus a laborers overview of exodus and we hope this is helpful for you guys. The comment line is open. If you have a question critique prayer, we'd love to hear from you.

Let us know that you're watching. How you guys doing?

I'm doing good. I'm doing good being blessed. Y 'all being blessed as what can you guys hear me? All right. Oh, yes. All right.

So this is not a typical overview of the books I'm trying to pull out. It's so it's so hard to get through many questions. But we do a good job of the questions that we do get into. We we have a good conversation about them.

So this is not a typical overview of the books the Bible where we talk about the author or the date. I'm trying to pull out some Some of the questions that we may have or would be good discussion questions.

And so I hope I hope it's edifying for everybody that listens or watches.

As opposed to having a two-hour debate on whether or not Adam and Eve had belly buttons. That's right.

Where did Kane's wife come from.

The contemplation of the navel.

Oh.

Freedom From Slavery to God in Exodus

All right, so we're gonna jump into the first question and I'm gonna put this on the resource page, but Tyler has written an article related to this first question and We'll put it on the resource page on the website.

So so go check it out. Truth in love network. Calm. Some claim that Submitting to God is bondage. You know, it's gonna it's gonna ruin my life. Ruin my freedom. So God led the Hebrew people out of slavery just to be in bondage to him.

Wow, and I say no. I say no. So explain why submitting to God is not slavery But true freedom for Israel and for us.

Well to start the I think the key phrase in the opening Narrative of the book of Exodus is let my people go so that they may worship me. That is Exodus 4 23 7 16 8 1 8 20 9 1 9 13 and 10 3 that is that is the key phrase that God keeps using time and time again in that narrative is Let my people go why so that they may worship me.

And while that may sound like a demand Some have said that's bondage or slavery. I guess it depends on how you want to define those terms. But the reality is they were called out of slavery to a wicked person and called into a familial relationship with God.

They were called into What's the word of covenants. And they were called into covenant with God You will be my people and I will be your God. And that may sound I'm restricting sometimes. But it's restricting because it restricts the flesh.

It restricts those sinful things we want to do, but it also frees us to do. The things spirit wants to do that. It's not just freedom from something but it's freedom to something. Mm-hmm that it's not just emancipation, but it's Repatriation it is bringing back that father-son dynamic.

God even calls Israel his son in the opening portion of Exodus.

Amen.

Yeah, it's impossible. It's impossible to worship God like Tyler accentuated that Outside of being delivered by God. Why. Because one of the many verses that Tyler Referenced right? We are slaves to our sin.

Let me quote a worthy author. He said this. The term slave is an appropriate rendering of the Greek word do loss in the New Testament. I know we're Old Testament still we're talking.

There was a whole testament then Greek to.

Yeah.

This word was understood by the first century Greek as Way while ancient Greek slavery was vastly different from the American slave trade. There are some transferable element the author. Waves often were subjected to hardship.

Their rights were defined differently than other members of society. But perhaps the most significant factor is the sovereignty of the slave holder.

Yes.

We Are or humanity? You're either gonna be a slave to sin or you're gonna be a slave to righteousness. Being made a slave to righteousness.

Is.

An act of God in and of itself, however, like Tyler said it's a oh goodness. What would be the term I'm looking for here? Somebody help me? It's a I mean it's to use two words that are totally opposite.

It's a liberating slavery.

I'm gonna say there's there's an aspect that is Totally valid to say that we're slaves to Christ. Yeah, we were purchased. That's right. There was there was a there was a debt. That was required in order to grant us our freedom and in order to have this freedom It has to be you had to be purchased by Christ.

Which means that you are really not your own. So in more than one way you are a slave. Here's the you know, here's it. Here's a unique thing about it now obviously. In a culture we live in especially slavery has nothing but negative connotations to it.

Absolutely, nothing but negative connotations to it and man for good reason however You're never given an option as Claude said to not be a slave The morning you were born There was a time when he was going to die and there's no way around that.

There's absolutely no way around that and either you're going to worship and serve and be a slave to the God of this world to sin and Go to hell whenever you perish. Or you're gonna be a slave to Christ and in that's in that slavery have freedom the same way that Dying in Christ is living.

Hey, man exactly the same. What would you call that? Turn a phrase or usage of the word. It sounds like an oxymoron. It really does but it it's a paradox. Yeah I told you this man knows some stuff. Heard that if we could get him to like, I don't know play a small bongo drum like like one in coffee shop poets and then say paradox and then If I can talk to somebody get me one of those drums in here and figure out a way to.

Add some look. I'll try to have you a drum sound effect.

And.

Into I mean, I mean in Exodus itself, I mean We are all Understood here that description that we are to let the scripture interpret scripture, right? I mean even in the book of Exodus is itself the Lord addresses, you know.

The law concerning servants. I mean so in Exodus chapter 21. These are the judgments which you shall set before them. This is after the Lord gives the Commandments on Sinai. He said if you buy a Hebrew servant, he shall serve six years in the seventh year.

He should go out and free and pay nothing if he comes in by himself. He should go out by himself and he comes in married. Then his wife will go out with him if his master has given him a wife and she has born him sons or daughters.

The wife and her children shall be our masters and she and he shall go out by himself. But this if the servant plainly says I love my master my wife and my children I will not go out free then his master shall bring him to the judges.

He shall also bring him to the door to the doorpost and his master shall pierce his ear with an all and he shall serve Him forever. So it goes on to talk more about this, but another Liberating feature of being a slave to Christ is that we have our needs met in him that You know again Jonathan our big big John mentioned there that there's such a negative connotation on slavery when we look at it Realistically in the Old Testament my goodness.

It was a provision For a man and his family. It wasn't like what we think of the negative connotations of the slave trade. You know from what? History tells us and so on and so forth. Certainly there was evils that took place.

Certainly will before should this was absolutely right and standing up in the abolition of slavery. But when we look at this from the biblical context there are great many and great truths that we can draw in and take comfort in the fact that that the Servant was housed the fact that the servant was clothed.

My goodness, I'm pretty sure that's what Jesus, you know talked about in the sermon on the mail, right?

Well.

There's also the thought that You're the the care how you to treat this person. That's right now if you Use Egypt. If you were to use Egypt as an example of the world like scripture does all the times an example of sin.

Yep, they were treated poorly and they groaned because of the treatment of the taskmasters. God delivered them. That's right.

So.

You're not. I mean, it would be it would be absolutely unacceptable for God to Liberate them from Egypt and then turn around and allow his people to be treated the same way that the taskmasters in Egypt treated them.

Like you said, there was no chapter 11 bankruptcy. That's right. Welfare state where. That these people were supposed to take care of one another. We talked a little bit about this in that episode we did on tithing.

Where the church should be taking care of the church, right? And this is this is some of the same I guess. Foundational principles of brotherly love of keeping at watching after those among you who can't take care of themselves.

That's right.

So and that's further Complemented by the fact that God called them out of Egypt to worship and where in the wilderness. Yeah, he didn't call them into a mansion. He called them into Essentially a desert.

Yeah. And that that idea of go let my people go that they may worship me. We see that that kind of literary arc Completed in chapter 12 when Pharaoh says the same things of Moses and he says go And worship the Lord your God as you have said, yeah.

Take everything and go we can also see I think big John kind of brought it up, but that the the idea that the Israelites were slaves to Egypt. They could do nothing but what Pharaoh commanded? That's it.

Like they couldn't they couldn't leave they had to make bricks. They had to make idols for him. They created idols for a pagan nation and when God took them out of there now they were free to serve God, but you you also see they Unfortunately, I guess if that's the word I should use that they could still make idols.

They could still go back and they did when they made a golden calf. I think they still created an idol for themselves, which we can see kind of some of that in our in our Current New Covenant in a sense that you know God has saved me and taken me out of the slavery of sin and Brought me in and made me his child and a slave of righteousness but at the same time Sometimes I still create those old idols and go back to Egypt if you will.

Where I have that freedom. I pulled up a verse on Everybody's mind priority thought of this but no first John 5 3 it says for this is a love of God that we keep his Commandments and his commandments and are grievous, you know, Jesus said that To take up his yoke and it's not burdensome to it.

It's his yoke is easy. It's light. But we still do have as Believers still in the flesh still have the ability to go back Egypt if you will and create those idols, even though God won't allow his people to stay there.

He will obviously bring us back out of that. But as an unbeliever you have no ability there like that's all you're going to do is create idols, that's it. That's all Israel could have did in Egypt. And that's all the unbeliever can do in his unregenerate state is create idols and as a believer now of the one true God We have the freedom to worship God, but even in that, you know Sometimes our flesh is weak and we go back into Egypt and create that idol again.

I think it's interesting that you guys brought up Egypt Egypt and I Was thinking about going in a similar direction that you were going Jeremy because even though Israel was liberated physically from slavery in Egypt They remained in bondage spiritually and it made me think of Revelation because I think Revelation compares.

Israel.

To Egypt and Because they remained in that bonded spiritually they remain under the bondage of the law and They and the they're they're out of worship, you know want to do their own thing. And so that's why they got compared to Egypt and Sodom.

Yeah, and some other cities that they were going to be judged him and punished because they rejected Messiah and wanted to remain in that. Yeah, it's that of Celebrating and rejoicing in the freedom that they could find in in the Savior.

Which we know the writer of Hebrews. Pretty much. Don't go back. Like it's not better. Don't go back. Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith look unto him. Don't go back, right?

And also to something else I was thinking about this question. I I think we really need a good biblical Anthropology to answer this question. Anthropology just meaning the study of man. But if we have a good biblical definition of anthropology or understanding of ourselves then we realize that we are not functioning in the way that we were created and.

So and we're blinded to that. We want to function in a certain way because we're blinded and We don't realize that we're trying to function. We're trying to live in a way that we were not created to live in.

Yes.

So true freedom comes when the veil is lifted and then when and we're in Christ and then we're able to live. The way we were created to live. Yeah, that's period. That's right. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Who is God that I should hear his voice?

Right sounds like total inability and perseverance of the Saints and if you some of y 'all I know know this old hymn, right? Egypt was once my home. Come on, big John. I know you got to know this. No, I don't know this.

How about you Jesse? I know but I like it. Keep going. I like bluegrass once my home.

I was a slave and it's sung man when you get in a country church and all the parts are sung Oh, man, the women come in and they'll say helpless and send it Rome. Lovelight did crave that's what the men will say and then when I looked up to heaven's dome Christ came to save.

I'm living in Canaan now Living on Canaan side Egypt behind Lost over Jordan wide gladness to find My soul is satisfied. No longer. I am blind Living with Jesus up in Canaan right now. That's the picture that's given so many in so many of them old songs too.

It's beautiful. We need to sell that.

Record that little spot right there and sell it.

Look, I can't I can't sing a lick but here's the here's the beauty of it. I ain't singing to nobody but the Lord.

Hallelujah, you can't if you can't if you can't sing shout amen. I always said you can't sing good sing laugh. Hey, man.

Yeah, nobody can't hear you.

Just want to remind everybody that the comment line is open. Let us know that you're watching. At least say hello. We'd love to know that you're watching. Anybody else want to touch on? The freedom. That Israel could have had freedom true freedom in Christ.

I do a little bit before we move on so something that I was talking to that to a guy at work today about was there were guys today. So I think that oftentimes If we're not careful we'll fall into the same trap that Israel has fell on into here.

We become a people. That become so fixated on what we see. And we're not really walking by faith. We're not really listening to see what God's wanting us to hear. We we walk out of. God's delivers us supernaturally out of sin and.

Then the very first thing that happens that just doesn't go our way. We get in the mulligrabs and we kick up sand and we cry and pout and say well I life was easier Whenever I was in the world. It might have been something you you felt more comfortable with because it was something you was in your whole life.

If we don't have. If we don't have a mind and I to see the gospel and everything and see the spiritual implications behind every area every area of the exodus. Then we do run into problems where people say well, what's the matter?

You're just gonna be a slave to somebody. You're gonna be a slave to Pharaoh or a slave to Jesus, right? But but you fail to understand that in in.

Whom.

We find ourself in servitude now. He carries the burden. That's right. He carries us. This is not something that we are Burdened by this is something that we're we're carried into. We can't. We truthfully can't even really be a good servant.

The Bible calls an unjust servant an unworthy servant or what is the term? Claude what is it? Not a useless but not a profitable one either. The profitable servant. That's a little. 17 is just doing what is necessary.

The Bible says that we're to live a holy and to be a living sacrifice under God, which is a reasonable service. So when you consider the fact that the Christian is supposed to be.

Bought.

Ruled by God governed by God in every area of his life. But not working to do that rather. He's carried in that. I've often thought about it like In order to go to heaven you have to be what brother Robert.

Saved by grace through faith. All right, that's it because the all the other alternative is to be absolutely perfect Is to be sinless, right? Right and we understand that that's impossible, right? We understand that that is impossible and I believe that the reason it is so impossible To to live to God's standard is because if it wasn't this impossible There might be a chance somebody else would even dare to believe they've done it.

But someone who's truly saved Understands that this is absolutely Impossible apart from God. You can't walk this you can't start this in the spirit and finish it in the flesh. This is something that is continually worked by God day in and day out.

The Egyptians were supernaturally kept 40 years day in and day out and If they fail to realize that all around them is a miracle of God in every single moment Instead they see the things they don't have.

They see what the world has or they see where they haven't attained and they've yet to realize the blessing and the miracle in the.

Every day.

That's right. He's saying truth.

Big John I've got an English dictionary. I've got a Greek dictionary and a Hebrew dictionary. But I don't yet have a Western North Carolina dictionary. I apologize so I just. It may help me understand Some of what you're saying if you if you define mulligrub for us.

Have you ever just been tore up from the floor up about something. Yes, you're just being upset to the point to where nothing you can't get right you. You'd be upset if somebody give you $100 folded the wrong way, right?

That's mulligrubs. And you know a good example is you've seen a toddler that you just can't appease. Yeah, a toddler. There's just screaming about something and you give them a lollipop and they throw it.

You know, I mean you say, okay fine I'm not going to get that lollipop. And then next thing you know, they're on the ground slobbering. They want that old lollipop, but it's in the dirt and they put it there.

You know, I mean, that's a mulligrub. That's what that is.

That was great.

Christians in Government and Christ's Authority Over the Nations

All right, let's let's jump to the next question. Joseph and Moses were both placed by God in very high places of government in order to bless his chosen people. Do you think this that this strategy is a plan for God's people today.

God's sovereign or he ain't so right here. I'm going to interject. I know I should shut up, but I should I can't. So here's the thing I think there's a there's a very fine line That we need to toe when we talk about Moses Joseph so on and so forth being placed in positions of government because they are set forth in the Old Testament as Pointing us to Christ types of Christ.

Right, and it's very easy for us to conflate their positions of authority with positions of authority today when their positions of authority were very particular and specific to Demonstrate the sovereignty of God and to demonstrate the reality of the Messiah that was to come in Jesus Christ.

Good answer. I would like to go ahead and peek it back and say to answer your question sharply. Rob I would say no. It's not God's plan. To use you know use people primarily in the government. To to affect his change.

Or a change now that doesn't mean God calls people into office. God does call people into office. And if you are that person living a unique lifestyle studying putting in that work to become a lawyer or judge a politician per se Then I would say then do your vocation.

That.

Vocation specifically to the glory of God. Use that platform. To you know glorify God to glorify God, right? Not everybody's called in that position. But there are some in the modern day who are called.

Obviously. Claude mentioned William Wilberforce. Mm-hmm. He was a politician in Parliament. I think he was in the house I'm not sure. I forgot which one but he affected change. He was a Christian who practiced his beliefs out loud.

And imagine where the world would be without William Wilberforce in that political position, right? So Christians have I would say Christians who were politicians throughout history after the resurrection Have effective a big deal of good change in the world some better than others.

But the world has become a better place because there are there have been brave Christians who have stepped up in different episodes of time and Done the right thing and it was at the right time and we benefit from that.

And there's definitely balance there. The power of God into salvation is the gospel. First and foremost that is that is how God works in people is with the gospel is with the conviction of sin. Do use another historical example here in America.

We know Frederick Douglass. He's very influential in the Reconstruction era, but there was a time when Frederick Douglass went overseas to UK for a time and sat under the preaching of Charles Spurgeon.

And.

They don't talk about that part in history class, but that was part of the the catalyst for him. He came back to the States after sitting under Spurgeon's preaching for I don't know how many months and So he comes back.

I'm talking about God's man. No, I don't want to say mandate. I'm sorry about about liberating people as It being part of their Christian duty.

Sure.

And so I think there's balance. Yeah, we're our focus is not just to take political power. But yes, there is time there are times where God uses people in that way. But it's only as an outworking of the gospel and hearts.

Yeah, I would say probably we can't have a both either or on that. It's both and like God Obviously God the gospel goes forth and through God regenerating his elect and giving them faith and repentance.

That's how the kingdom spread. But let me. Well on the other hand of that we also need to be. Not every single one of us. I don't think I'm called to be a politician at all I'm not politically correct at all.

Get thrown out very fast but let me let me bring up these two texts because I Didn't see this till a few years back when I saw it. It just kind of It was it was kind of outstanding to me, but in Psalm 2, I'm sure you guys are familiar with it.

It says to the Sun It says ask of me and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance. I'm using KJV by the way and The uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. So this is the father speaking to his son saying ask of me I'll give you the heathen and uttermost parts of the earth for that possession and then in verse 9 of the same Psalm He says thou the father to the son thou shalt break them with a rod of iron and Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Now.

The Apostle John quotes that verse in Revelation chapter 2 and He says in Revelation 2 26. It says Revelation 2 26 the Apostle John he says he that overcomes who's that.

Jesus.

Well, that's the believers there and keeps my work unto the end to him while I give powers over the nations. And He shall rule them with a rod of iron as the vessels of a potter. Shall They be broken to shivers even as I received of my father Jesus speaking, but he's saying to the to the one that overcomes it keeps my work to the end to him Will I give power over the nations?

So what he's saying is he's given the power to the church Over the nations and he says. And he shall rule them with a rod of iron as a vessel of potters. Shall they be broken to shivers even as I have?

Received of my father so Jesus as obviously John's writing the book of Revelation. But Jesus is speaking there and he's quoting Psalm 2 and saying that was given to me. I'm giving it to you church.

So.

We do as the church have power over the nations, but I believe that power to be the gospel.

Right. Well, I Want to bring it back to Joseph and then and then Moses like the question is I don't disagree with everything obviously. But I think that as questions posed Joseph Joseph isn't isn't a proclaimer of the gospel.

The Bible calls Joseph a dreamer. He's a Favorite son. He's a lot of things. What I see is I see that every position that he's put in he's he's faithful to be upright and in right standing with with the Lord and his practice with men and There really isn't anything that can happen that will stop Joseph from being in the position that he's supposed to be in.

I See all of creation come to try to make that. All of creation trying to war against. What is a what is ultimately a plan that God has orchestrated way ahead of everybody's figuring. Joseph would say in Genesis 50 verse 20 What you meant for evil God meant for good you.

You can't you can't circumvent God's sovereignty. Nobody here would nobody here. I think you with that, right? When you see Moses similarly, I see the same exact thing. I see someone who's supposed to be dead, right?

Who is in a position to be raised in the house? Who would who would eventually exile himself and Then God would use to come and take the people out of Egypt and they would go into the wilderness.

Now.

Obviously, there's there's. I. Guess you'd call him. What'd you call. That point of people pointing to Christ and the likeness of Christ, you know.

Agree, I.

See that likeness of Christ more in Joshua than I see it in Moses. If you want to be if you want the prophets and the law representative in Moses and Joshua being more the representative of Christ in the wilderness.

But what I can see is is more more than any of those points or similarities that they share. I see where God regardless of what anybody else wants to do Completely orchestrates everything up to up to harden Pharaoh's heart to make sure that the outcome is exactly the way that he wants it to be.

If you take that and look at that in every area Romans 13, I think it's Romans 13. I got pulled up somewhere here on one of these windows. Let it won't be subject to the government authority so that the no authority except that which God has established the authorities that exist have Established by God.

Whoever rebels against the authorities are building against against what God has instituted now. I got some hot water for putting the podcast up saying that there's a time whenever we can be rebellious against the government and that's whenever the government asked us to do Things that are clearly contrary to Scripture, right?

But I think that Paul's understanding of of God's sovereignty is that I Don't care how many votes? Go towards one particular politician. God will establish in the White House. Whoever he wants to.

And.

Like him love it. Hate it. Try to stop it. You can do whatever you want to but so long as if I'm under if I'm right and I not submit this to the council every word in here. There's a lot of times I think in our American this in our Western attitude.

We feel entitled to argue with him about things and it didn't really make no difference. We can get upset about it. It is going to be the same as if we hadn't got upset about it. My daddy used to say you can get glad in the same britches.

You got mad and it don't really make no difference. That's right.

Hey Rob, there's a you know, amen to that. So Yeah, so, you know, I would like to play some experiments. So for there are Christians who are out there, you know that are in these Type of groups and they promote, you know a passive, you know a passive Lifestyle when it comes to engagement in culture in politics and what I mean by passive lifestyle.

I mean an aggressive Dichotomy between the physical and the spiritual. And they you know, I Believe they're sincere. But what what you know, if you you know follow that, you know path of theology to its conclusion.

You see exactly where it goes when the church totally totally Steps back from the public life from the political sphere. You see what happens and you don't have to go too far away from the Reformation period to see what happened.

Especially when it comes to when it came to England and when it comes to Germany. You could look at those two as historical playgrounds of the ideas of for example Calvinism and Lutheranism. You will look at what the count with what the Calvinist did in England was far better.

For the public life for the civil magistrate and for government then what happened in Germany? What happened in Germany was a total setback. What was a total step back from Christians? Saying we don't need to get engaged in politics.

They use verses like this is not our home. They use verses like God's kingdom is not of this world. So let the King Do whatever they want in God's law, right and then way over here. We'll do whatever we want.

Now you fast forward with that idea 500 years later almost 500 years later. And you get you get a fascism you get you get a Hitler. Because you get the church not Active not not being active in any public sphere if the church was don't get me wrong.

Not every Lutheran was like you got Bonhoeffer stepping up Right, so but imagine if you had 20. Imagine if but imagine if you had 20 ,000 Bonhoeffer's Right. Imagine if you have a hundred thousand Bonhoeffer's instead of like ten or five or one Right in Germany, you know chances are Luther I mean chances are a Nazi Germany to that level would have never reached that climax.

And it never does it never does in England, right? The worst you get is, you know, King Henry taking away the property rights. That's the worst you get. But you have the Hundred Years War you didn't you did have wars you you did have the Civil War too in England but you don't have a Nazi figure coming over and Swallowing up the church.