News Roundup: Kelly Loving Act, Hindu Idol, Defending Woke Leaders with Same Ole' Tricks, & More

Sponsorship and Book Promotion

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In an age of moral drift and cultural upheaval, against the waves, Christian order in a liberal age by John Harris stands as a resolute call to return to God's divine order. John Harris confronts the challenges of our time, disorientation, secularism, and the erosion of virtue with a compelling case for reviving the Christian principles that once anchored Western civilization.

There is a vision of hope rooted in the timeless truths of scripture and an overcoming spirit. Against the waves is more than a critique of our modern world. It equips the believer, the patriot, and the survivor with practical guidance to restore meaning, build resilient communities, and live with unwavering conviction.

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I know of at least one church that's doing this as a Bible study, or I should say a book study, really, and I hadn't really thought of that. I haven't done a lot of book studies in group settings. I've done Bible studies.

I have done a few book studies, I guess, but it's been a while, and I'm thinking of maybe doing a study guide because this really is a book you could do that with. Each chapter is pretty self-contained, and if you wanted to, you could even go through and skip some chapters and use others because there's such a variety of topics.

Anyway, that's the book. Two other announcements I have real quick before we jump into things. I do want to let everyone know I will be in Selinsgrove, Pennsylvania, which is not far, I don't think, from Lancaster.

A lot of people recognize Lancaster, Pennsylvania, but Selinsgrove isn't far from there. At the Christianity and the Founding Conference, Christianityandthefounding .com, that is April 25th through 27th, and this is what the website looks like.

You can go sign up. It's a steal, guys. We have really great speakers. It's only $30 to register, and there's a VIP dinner for $50 if you choose to come to the VIP dinner. That's coming up. We also have, and I don't have a website for this, but a conference the following weekend, May 2nd through 4th, in Mount Laurel, New Jersey.

That is the Truth Conference. They got some really great things. I know on Saturday, there's a tour of Philadelphia that you can take part in, a Christian tour, which I'm hoping to do. There is not a website, though.

I asked the pastor, Pastor Jeff Klier, is there a website? I think he was thinking of getting one, but the thing is, I guess he doesn't need a lot of extra people because he's got a lot of people coming.

That's a great problem not to have, I suppose. You have people already coming to your conference, but I know there's people in this audience who would want to come. I asked him if I could at least make his email address available for people, and he said yes.

If you want to email Jeff .Klier at CornerstoneSJ .org, and Klier is K-L-I-E-W-E-R. If you're watching, obviously, it's there. If you want to go to JohnHarrisMedia .com, you can go to Speaking Engagements and find that email address.

You can get more details. If you're in the Mount Laurel, New Jersey area, the Philadelphia area, then would love to see you there. Of course, there's other stuff coming up, too. I got the Operation Joshua conference, or I think it's an event more so in Melbourne, Florida on May 17th.

I'll be there and would love to see you. Okay. With that, oh, and I should also let you know, yes, my album, it's still relatively new. I came out in February. Driving Down a Mountain Road is also out.

You can get it on iTunes or wherever you stream. If you're a CD person, you can get a signed CD, and you can go to JohnHarrisTunes .com. Okay. Now we can get into stuff. Let's do that. Let's get into some things here.

Transgenderism, Britain, and the Kelly Loving Act

I want to talk today about a number of topics. This is a news roundup, so I think we're going to start here real quick. Let's actually take one step back. Let me just give you a little bit of a transgender news update here on the sexual degeneracy front, but the transgender front in particular.

Just a few headlines for you or stories there. Amber Duke from The Federalist, exclusive, more than three dozen children's hospitals continue to provide sex changes for minors as Donald Trump's executive order moving to defund gender-affirming care is under preliminary injunction.

Some hospitals confirmed to The Daily Caller that they are still offering sex change surgeries to children as young as 14. Did I say she was with The Federalist? Daily Caller, sorry, as young as 14 years old.

For the top surgery, it looks like we are seeing patients 14 years of age and older. A receptionist at the University of Minnesota Health told The Caller that was on March 19th, so almost a month ago.

This is something that's still ongoing. This is something that is a big moneymaker, and the left does not want to give this issue up. There's other good news and bad news headlines. Good news, the United Kingdom Supreme Court, this was surprising, ruled that men are not women in a For Women Scotland victory, saying trans women are women was never true.

I saw that the author of the Harry Potter series, who's been pretty big on this, was involved in, I think, advocating for this particular ruling. I don't know how you advocate for a ruling, but she was very happy with all of this.

The story goes on, it says that the vibe shift is real, quoting a former barrister in Great Britain. I don't think this decision would have been made two or three years ago. I think this is reflective of the continuing shift in our culture towards things like reality, a shift towards things like reality, that kind of thing.

Well, the interesting thing to me on this whole thing is, I mean, I'm keeping my eye on Great Britain, but from all the headlines I've been seeing, it seems like Great Britain's toast on the immigration front.

They've allowed so many people with different faiths, both Muslims and Hindus, into the country. It's just changed the demographics to the extent that the birth rate will... And we're not even talking about Christians.

We're just talking about people that have lineage going back a few generations or more in Great Britain, and they will be minorities in their own country before too long with the way things are going.

That's kind of a scary thought. I mean, Christianity, of course, was once the prevalent, dominant religion, and the trappings of it are still there in some ways in Great Britain, but it's a different place.

Immigration is certainly a big part of that. But I did see, and I haven't looked into it, that I think it was Jamie Bainbrick put out something. Now, he's in, I think, Scotland or Ireland. Sorry, Jamie.

I'm trying to... Now, I know those two places are very different, but now I'm trying to remember. I think it's Ireland or Orland, as they say. Anyway, he put out something about a revival going on potentially in England.

I don't know if that's true. I don't know what that looks like. That's the only place I've heard about that kind of a thing happening, and I haven't looked at any polls. You have to ask yourself, is a ruling like this reflective of a greater Christian impulse, or is it because there are liberals who are maybe not as insane?

Maybe they are a little more grounded in some common sense and reality, like Elon Musk, or even, dare I say, even someone like a Bill Maher in the United States. Are there people like that who are making this kind of a thing possible?

I think if it is that, I'm not going to poo-poo it and say that that's wrong or bad or a development that we should just cast away and ignore. It's still good. I just think that if it's not due to a Christian impulse of some kind, and if this is a secular-grounded kind of thing, I don't know that we've solved the problem completely.

I remember a professor of mine in seminary warning that there is, and at the time, I wasn't even sure I agreed with him. I thought it was a little weird, but he said that we would get a modernistic kind of scientific enthusiasm coming in the next few years.

Of course, now we see AI and transhumanism, and let's put chips in people's brains and solve Alzheimer's. There is, I think, a faith now, an increasing faith in technology and science. Not that that ever went away, but it's increasing.

Anyway, there is a scientism that is, frankly, religious, but it is hard to, I think, navigate or embrace some of that without marauding yourself in some kind of a reality that at least takes into account biological difference.

These are incomplete thoughts on my part, because I'm thinking through it in real time myself. I'm openly optimistic but cautious about this kind of a thing going on in Great Britain. Great development, but I'm still cautious.

Maybe I'm afraid to rejoice too much because I've been disappointed. That could be it, right? I do think that there's a class of people, at least in the United States, I see, and I don't know if it's the same in Great Britain, but who want to be involved in right-wing politics who have anything but Christian interests in mind.

They are bolstering the ranks of conservative Christianity, but as they do so, Christians have a real seat at the table, but that seat is getting smaller. I don't know if that's something that's happening in Great Britain.

Interesting, though, and keep your eye on those kinds of things. That's a very good development. Another development in our own country here in the United States, I assume most of my listeners are Americans, Maine Attorney General Wildley claims no concern of safety with men and women's sports after the U .S. Department of Justice sued Maine for putting women and girls at risk by allowing males to compete in their sports.

The state's Attorney General claimed with zero evidence that Maine's ideology poses no concerns of safety. That's interesting, and there's a whole article about it here. This is a real fight. This is an ongoing thing, and that brings us to what's happening now.

What's happening now is there is a bill called the Kelly Loving Act that has gone through, I believe there's two assemblies, right? That's a bicameral kind of setup in Colorado like it is in most states.

I think it's the House has already passed this full Democrat approval, Republicans opposed, but there's not enough Republicans to do anything now in Colorado. It will be going to the Senate to vote on this.

It's called the Kelly Loving Act, and it's a radical gender ideology bill. You'll notice this is a headline from the ERLC. I wanted to say something about this. This is from April 14th. The ERLC was pretty late on this.

There had already been momentum. In fact, you can go listen to, I listened to a half of it, an American Reformer podcast episode with Chase Davis and William Wolfe. It's the last episode. In fact, I was the guest on the one before that.

Tymon was interviewing me on my book against the waves. The very last one, though, the most recent one is Chase and William. Chase is just talking about the fact that there were very few organizations that were willing to partner with him and actually stand against this bill in a concerted effort.

In fact, he was instrumental in planning a rally at the Capitol building there in Denver. It happened today as I'm recording this. This is late at night, but it happened this morning, I believe. He reached out to all kinds of Christian organizations in that particular state, including the ERLC.

The ERLC is not based in that state, but he reached out to also national Christian organizations. Very little support. That's a surprising thing because Colorado is actually known for having headquarters of a lot of different Christian organizations, including Focus and the Family.

I think the Coulson Center is there and Crew is there. I think Navigators or Crew, they're probably both there. There's just a lot of Christian ministries in that area. To sidestep this issue, I think that's a good barometer of where these organizations, especially if they have a slightly political bent or a fully political bent already, that is a good indicator that they are probably not doing their job.

Even if they're slow on this one, to be quite honest with you, there's really no excuse because the Kelly Loving Act would make it illegal to... We'll put it this way. If you do not use preferred pronouns, if you use someone's birth name, you are now in violation of hate crimes legislation and you will be prosecuted.

It turns everyone in the state into a Jack Phillips. Remember Jack Phillips who didn't want to bake the cake for a homosexual wedding? That's the kind of thing that they're going to be doing. It is a draconian measure.

This is the kind of also, there's many elements to the bill, but one of them is parents cannot interfere in minors who want to transition, that kind of thing as I understand it. There's a lot of bad things in this bill that are just very basic fundamental issues that Christians should be concerned with.

To see a lackluster response is disappointing. Now, the ERLC may have been a little late on this and they may not have been at the rally or anything today, but I'm going to give a little credit here. They at least did put something out.

Now, this could be because of pressure. If it is though, good. It is good. I'm willing to give credit where credit is due here. I wanted to highlight that. I do think pressure works and I do think that we need to keep that pressure up on Christian organizations to actually be part of the fights that count, because this is a fight that counts.

That's a little bit on that whole front, the transgenderism and sexual revolution front. Like I said, it's a mixed bag. There's some good things like what happened just recently in Great Britain. There's also some things to be concerned with.

On the state level, I think in the next few years, as the Trump administration is in charge at the national level or the general level, we are going to find out that blue states want to be the resistance and they will start doing things like this as it suits them, as they think that they can contrast themselves with Donald Trump and the administration and that kind of thing.

Hindu Idolatry, Immigration, and Religious Liberty

All right. Well, one of the other things I wanted to mention along the lines of social issues is this Texas statue issue. Now, some of you may not be familiar. You can see this little video playing here.

This is the fourth tallest statue in the US and it is the tallest statue in the state of Texas. That's right. It is taller than the cowboy at the Texas State Fair, which I have been to. If you've never been to the Texas State Fair, it's incredible.

Well, this is larger. It's the Hindu god Hanuman and it's in Sugarland, Texas. Now, Sugarland, Texas, I associate Sugarland with more traditional Texas. Well, there's apparently a large population of Hindus there and they have erected a statue.

I'm assuming this is on private land of this god of theirs, small g god. I mean, it's a demon. Okay. And apparently at the end of this video, there's a advertisement for immigration to the United States.

Wouldn't you know? Isn't that great? These are the kinds of people, I guess, in state statue of union, that's what they're calling it. So union with what? These are the kinds of people that have come into great Britain, people of very different understandings and religions and have changed the very character of many of Britain's cities.

And now it's happening in our country and it's not happening perhaps at the same rate it has happened in Canada. We have, of course, people coming across the Southern border by and large have a Roman Catholic backgrounds.

And even though there's a different language, at least there is some kind of Christian, there is a compatibility that doesn't exist with stuff like this, frankly. And this is the kind of thing that really changes the character of a place.

And so what's the normal Christian reaction to this? I mean, this is obviously an affront to the Christian faith. This is obviously a false religion in a very egregious sense. I mean, it is totally, it's polytheistic.

It is dark, evil. There's elements of sexual perversion in this particular religion. There's a whole social structure that isn't in conformity at all and is not incompatible at all with what Americans have typically been used to.

It is just a foreign element in every way. And to have that be the tallest statue in Texas, I mean, that says something, right? Especially at a time when you have just recently had and are still having in some places, statues, hundreds of statues writ down of our own ancestors.

I think R .A. McIntyre was the one who said, look, if you are living at a time when your own ancestor statues are being ripped down and you have something like this erected, normally that's the sign that you lost a war.

It does feel that way a little bit, like we lost a war. And I think the battle is, one of the battles, at least politically, socially, is for our very identity. Who are we? And of course, under liberalism, this is all permissible because you can have a pluralistic public square and that's supposed to be fine because no one's going to inhibit anyone else.

If you don't like it, you go build a bigger statue on your private property, right? That's the answer, I think, from liberals. But as Christians, we know that the character of a country also should be reflected in the laws and preferences.

So what do you do about something like this? Well, legally, I don't know. This is not the kind of thing I think people in Texas, especially, were expecting to have to navigate. Even 10 years ago, would you have thought, would people in Texas have thought they would have to navigate something like this?

I mean, it's not hurting anyone. It's a statue, all that. But look, it's a landmark. It's more than a statue. It's a big statue. It's a landmark and it's an idol. It's not even a statue to, it's not like a George Washington or a Robert E. Lee statue.

This is not to a person. This is to a false demon god that is in conflict with the majority, at least up until recently. And still, it's the majority, at least of Texans. So anyway, does this mean that Hindu, you know, clerics are going to be doing the invocations at the Sugar Land Town Hall?

I mean, what does this mean? City Hall? Where are things going? Because obviously, a statue doesn't just pop out of nowhere. This is something that had broad support and a lot of resources. And that means you have a heavy population and a heavy investment of people who have a very different agenda and vision for a common life than people who have typically traditionally lived in Texas.

So the reactions to this from Christians you would think would be disgust, would be alarm, would be what do we do about this kind of development? And there wasn't a lot. I mean, there was some reaction to some of this.

But, you know, from people with authority, most people that I could tell that I saw online at least sidestepped the issue. But there were some guys who actually were somewhat, were not just reluctant, they actually seemed like they support something like this.

So Malcolm Yarnell at, where is he at now? He was at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. I want to say he's at Midwestern now. He's a Southern Baptist professor. But he said, one of the worst changes this generation of Southern Baptists could make is to undermine the lordship of Jesus Christ even further by diminishing our commitment to religious liberty.

Now you could say, well, that seems vague in general. Well, it was inserted into this kind of environment. And yes, a lot of people, including myself, knew how he was, knew what he was talking about when he said this.

Now, the curious thing to me is that using the lordship of Christ, the lordship of Christ would obviously be the thing that would, I think, preclude something like a false idol, right? Normally idols don't jive with the lordship of Christ.

But the lordship of Christ apparently is associated most strongly with our commitment to religious liberty, which includes now the erection and justification and allowance of idols. Very odd to me, very odd take from a Baptist professor.

But just be warned that if you have a pastor who's a Southern Baptist, they're going to have professors who thinks like this, and they're going to be influenced by those professors. So I think it's worth highlighting that you have guys like this saying these things.

Actually, Malcolm Yarnell has a history though of saying kind of woke stuff. He once talked about how wouldn't it be great if white people would just stand aside to let minorities have positions of influence in the Southern Baptist convention.

And I actually put out a few tweets of his and just reminded people of who Malcolm was. But another reaction to this, Matthew Millsat. Now, Matthew Millsat, let's see, Matthew's at, he's a professor. He's a Baptist professor.

Oh, I thought it said which, yeah, okay, Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. Okay. And here is the reaction he has to Joe Rigney. Okay, Joe Rigney said, anyone know if Michael Cassidy has anything going on these days?

Meaning Michael Cassidy toppled the Satan statue in Iowa. Maybe he could topple this, the Baphomet statue, right? Matthew Millsat, professor at Midwestern Baptist said, a couple of questions, Joe, are you encouraging trespassing and destruction of private property?

Are you suggesting that in America, Christians have the right to free and unhindered religious expression, but Hindus should not? Megan Basham got into it and said, oh my gosh, Matthew, this is so lame.

That's great. She doesn't even, I just, I love it. This is just lame. So Matthew says, oh, hi, Megan. While you're here, would it be morally permissible for a Christian to trespass onto the private property to destroy another religious statues to their false gods?

Should adherents of non-Christian religions have the right to free religious expression? Now, the assumption here is again, the liberal order. It's that, I guess there's no limitations on both private property and what you can do in private property and then religious expression.

And of course, we all know that there are limits to these things. You can't go and commit certain crimes, right? Even if it's on private property, if you are kidnapping people, if you are molesting people, you're murdering people, right?

Attacks on the image of God on private property, certain ones, you don't get a pass because it's on private property, right? Should non-Christian religions have the right to free religious expression?

Is that an absolute rule? Are there certain religions that should be precluded? I think there are, Matthew Millsap would even admit, well, what about religions that believe in human sacrifice? Should we grant them an exception because it's a religious reason that they're doing these things?

Of course not. And I think ultimately, everyone is going to have their own barriers. They're going to have a stopping point where they say, this far and no farther. And typically, traditionally in the West and in our country in particular, the United States, these restrictions have been loosened and loosened and loosened over time.

So yes, there was a time in many states, there were maybe some tolerated religious minorities. The situation was different. They didn't have Hindus, but they were, if they were tolerated, they were certainly not privileged and they didn't hold influence.

You couldn't be an elected official. They would have been completely appalled at a display like this. This would have been completely outside their wheelhouse. They would not have allowed it. These are states that still had things like blasphemy laws.

So we've just had a loosening ever since the time of our original founding. And you have to ask, I think, more principled questions here. You have to ask for a Christian, where should, where ought the lines, where ought they, where should they be, where ought we draw them?

And some of this is going to be suited to the kind of population that you have, knowing that you can't enforce necessarily every kind of restriction that you would want to enforce in a Christian society, knowing that you have to make laws that suit the people, knowing that even Moses allowed for divorce because of hardness of heart.

There's an element of prudence that I think comes into these things, but you can certainly, and this is the issue here, when you have new frontiers being exploited, new challenges to the Christian hegemony that are being now, Christianity is being transgressed in ways it has not before, that is the time to put your foot down.

That is the time to say, no, we need a fence here. That is the time to say, to remind yourself, who are we again? And I think the goal for Christians should be to try to reverse course on these things.

And that includes personal and social or political involvement. That means evangelizing. That means you want to see these people who are worshiping this false God. You want to see them saved, right? But it also means you want to see public policies that suppress this kind of blatant idolatry.

And there's nothing out of step with Christianity. And that's the thing that I think I'm most concerned about is people who think that somehow this is out of step with the Lordship of Christ or out of step with some Christian principles to be opposed to the largest statue in the state of Texas and the fourth largest in the country being to a demon God.

Yeah, I think we should oppose to that. There's no question. All right. Let's move on a little bit here and talk about some other things. I wanted to mention this. This is just briefly, I don't really want to get into the weeds on this, but Brian Autin, okay.

Brian Autin, for those who don't know, he took the lead on the whole steel dossier, the Russia collusion thing, right? If you remember, I've talked about it on the podcast before, but I noticed that this came up again.

And I want to share something real quick about Brian Autin. So Brian Autin wrote a blog. This was in like 2019 or so called Notes. It was called Notes on the Evangelical Dark Web at Mirror Orthodoxy. And he envisions a campaign against that, that Christians in more institutions and pastors can wage against folks like myself, that they can try to discredit people like myself.

Now he was at the time, an associate professor at Patrick Henry University. And I didn't know him from Adam, but I knew that this was someone works for the FBI and this is, this was subversive stuff. And so I just, I never talked to him.

I didn't want to talk to him. And I had, there were some people, there was two people in particular that if I mentioned their names, you know who they are, who were reaching out to me and saying, Brian Autin wants to talk to you.

Can you just talk to him? One of them reached out to me multiple times and said, no, no, I'm not talking to Brian Autin. Did you not see the article that he put out there? Did you, like, he does not have your best interest in mind.

If you're talking to him, he's getting information from you. I think I saw that he was leading a, if I was, if I'm not mistaken, a color of compromise, Jamar Tisby study at his church. Bright guy from what I understand, but interested in evangelical history and those kinds of things.

I'm probably doing myself no favors bringing up this guy. He probably has all kinds of tools to try to, you know, discredit me or whatever. I don't, I don't know what they do at the FBI, but, but here's the thing with, with someone like Brian Autin, you, I'm very careful.

Someone who works for the, the administrative state, someone who now has national stories about him pushing through the steel dossier, the Russia collusion hoax. No way. Am I going near that? Right. And there's some guys who still want to stake their reputations on this.

And you've got to ask yourself why. Now, some cynical people out there might think that there's dirt that maybe people have on each other. I'm not going to assume that. I think there may be just genuine friendship going on here, to be honest with you, birds of a feather here.

So Brad Littlejohn at David Institute and Brad Littlejohn, by the way, has written, wrote a great book on the two kingdoms, but Brad Littlejohn says that, all right, he goes after Molly Hemingway and Molly Hemingway, who's at the Federalist, did a story on, on Brian Auden, I guess.

And Brad Littlejohn comes in and says that, he says in an age of funhouse mirrors and disinformation overload, we're all doomed if we can't stay anchored to the personal knowledge that counts most. And then Josh Avatoy responds to him.

And then he says, I very clear, he goes, there's an epistemic environment we inhabit these days where it is often so hard to disentangle truth from falsehood. In the tweet quoted above, which I think I'm going to show you in a minute, I emphasize that I'm not addressing any of Molly's factual claims.

So he doesn't like Molly's reporting, but her facts, I guess are okay. It's just the way she frames it. This I believe is the tweet he's responding to. This is from Miles Smith. He is a professor. I think he's actually at Hillsdale College, but he says, I've gone back and forth on whether to say something about this or not.

No, I know I'm kind of entering the middle here, but it'll make sense in a minute. Knowing what the reaction will be at some point, I have to ask myself what type of person I am. Brian Auden is a friend and a good man and a good Christian.

That's Miles Smith, endorsement of Brian Auden. Brad Littlejohn also saying that the people who make claims, I guess, Molly, who makes claims about Russiagate know very little about Brian Auden. So they're circling the wagons around Brian Auden right now.

I don't know why right now. Molly must've said something more recently that's calling this. And Molly's saying, hey, I would love to compare my exhaustive reporting on the Russia collusion hoax with yours, Brad.

So this became a little spat, and then you had Sean Davis from The Federalist get involved and wrote this whole thing. The reason I bring it up, though, is mostly because Brad Littlejohn is associated with an evangelical institution, the David Institute.

They have done some good work on recovery of reformed thinking and teachings from the past. They have a history bent to them. It's just a sad thing to me to see who they are associated with and who they're willing to publicly defend.

I'm already someone who doesn't have faith in most evangelical institutions. I just don't see a lot of good men make it to the top. It seems like once you get to the top, you've got to compromise somewhere.

You either lost your virtue in order to get there from the beginning, or in the process of getting there, you end up losing some of your virtue. The relationships start meaning a lot. It's a dangerous place to be.

I've thought this of myself. If I was in those positions, would I have the strength to withstand that kind of a pressure? I hope the answer is yes, but it's hard. These people start becoming your friends, and you do get intertwined.

I've said this many times before. The elites in every institution want to be known, recognized, and respected by elites in other institutions. It's revolving door theory. If you are an elite in a Christian circle, you want desperately to make inroads into other elite circles.

It's why people like Brian Auden are defended. What's his name? The guy who headed up the Human Genome Project. I don't know why I'm forgetting his name all of a sudden. I'm going to look it up. Francis Collins.

There he is. I don't know why that talked about him enough. Anyway, it's why Francis Collins. Same thing. Why he's platformed in Christianity today. You can't disentangle these relationships. It doesn't matter what bad things Francis Collins has done because people who are at the top, that's who they respect.

That's who they want to get in the good graces of. They don't really care about someone like myself or someone like you and what you happen to think of them. They care much more about someone who's coming from a more elite institution.

Sad, really. I wanted to highlight that for all of you. There's actually a story in the Federalist by Sean Fleetwood. I don't know if this is what caused it. Unsealed crossfire hurricane docks further prove Russiagate was a hoax all along.

I'm not going to read that. Then some other sundry things that I want. Oh, you know what? I have a video I want to play, and this would actually be a good time to play it. We will talk about it because it actually goes right along with what I was just talking about.

This is on Sean DeMar's show. He's a TGC guy. Room for nuance. I can't make this up. That literally is the name of the podcast, Room for Nuance. He hosts this, and he has Nate Aiken, who is Danny Aiken's son.

I think Nate Aiken heads up the Killer Network, which is an influential church planning organization within the Southern Baptist Convention. Maybe they're separate, but it's a lot of overlap if it is separate.

Anyway, Nate Aiken here on the Sean DeMar show. Here's what he had to say about his Danny Aiken, who's the president of Southeastern and the law amendment, which would have authorized the Credentials Committee to put more teeth into the Credentials Committee to disfellowship from churches that had women pastors.

This is what Nate Aiken had to say.

Justin Perdue. Most important question, your dad has gone woke. How does that affect you?

Oh, my gosh. I'll just say this. If you had told me when I was growing up that my dad would be considered a liberal and woke, I would have laughed in your face. It's unbelievable. My dad, he's a grown man.

He can fight his own battles, but I think the accusations against my dad are just from people who don't know him. Again, I'm one of four sons. We think very, very highly of our dad. He's our hero. I think it says a lot when people who know him best think more highly of him than.

People who don't know him at all. I think it says a lot. It's a weird thing about the internet. I'm pretty close with Mark Dever, and we had a family leave the church saying that we're pretty closely aligned with Don Marks, and they've gone woke.

They had specific examples about Mark and Jonathan. I sat down with them, and I'm like, hey, these guys are actually my friends. I know them very well. I just had lunch with Mark two weeks ago, and we actually talked about woke stuff.

You're one person separated from him, and I'm telling you.

They don't want to listen.

I've done my research, which means I've read whole pin and pin on the internet.

Something on Facebook came across. It's crazy to me. Here's what baffles me, because I know you just did an interview with Moeller. My dad was at Southeastern when he got turned around and was at Southern when he got turned around.