- 00:00
- Our great God Father it is our privilege and our honor to come before you this morning to gather together to worship the
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- Lord Jesus Christ to Thank you father son and spirit for what you've done
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- In and through the Lord Jesus Christ Father work in us today
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- Refine our thinking help us to better grasp who you are what you've done
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- To just deal with the truth surrounding the
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- Trinity that we might better Understand you and worship you Lord, I pray that you'd bless us and strengthen us in Jesus name.
- 00:44
- Amen And I pray that you were close Jody. Can you get the door since you're coming in?
- 00:51
- You know just reading this week good morning about the Trinity and and listening I listened to credo podcast about it and You know some of the things that they talk about are are very interesting to me
- 01:05
- When we when we're trying to explain something if I tell you how I Love my wife.
- 01:12
- For example, I'm going to talk about her positive qualities right, I will say that Janet is very patient Janet is very kind Janet is very you know, and I just start saying all these positive things about Janet what's interesting is when it comes to the
- 01:30
- Trinity? Sometimes Talking in a positive way isn't the most helpful way to do things
- 01:39
- Why it why would that be or can you think of a reason why? talking About the positive attributes of the
- 01:47
- Trinity might not be all that helpful. I'm gonna help
- 01:57
- One of the reasons why I mean is is it easy when you go home from Sunday school or when you leave this classroom
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- And you're in the hallways. You just think I'm going to tell somebody about the Trinity and you could say yes
- 02:10
- But as soon as you start trying to explain to them you're going to you're going to run into a Problem and that problem is this
- 02:18
- I Don't know how to fully describe the Trinity. I Can't really wrap my arms around the
- 02:24
- Trinity So one of the things that theologians do is they talk in a negative sense
- 02:32
- They say this is what the Trinity is not Okay, so they will say something like The Son is
- 02:43
- Not less than the Father That helps us
- 02:49
- Okay, the Holy Spirit is not less than the Son or the Father I'm trying to think of a really good example where we can understand that you know that that sense of negation but that but that's what they do and and let me just kind of as We're going back to the quiz here this morning by the way anybody not have a copy of the quiz
- 03:08
- I Had a little issue with the printer this morning. I mean
- 03:15
- I don't understand it I That's all right I I don't understand it because I I asked the printer very nicely to print for me
- 03:22
- And then I walk away from the printer. I come back and the printer didn't do it I kind of feel like I was dealing with one of my one of my kids
- 03:31
- Would you do this for me absolutely dad and I come back, and it's not done one more
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- Two four okay anybody else
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- Going going going whoo glad I saved one all right
- 03:56
- So what negation does is it basically puts it puts fences around things it it it
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- Helps us by defining things that you know outside of these parameters
- 04:08
- We can't go So we're at Number seven
- 04:15
- I believe Number six true or false adoptionism means
- 04:21
- Jesus became the Son of God at his carne incarnation that's false True or false,
- 04:29
- I think we did number seven so but I'll just recap that briefly true or false Arius Went to great lengths to keep the nature of the
- 04:37
- Son separate from the Father And that's true And I said
- 04:45
- I said how many have the book here Anybody have their book with them
- 04:51
- If you if you I mean I tried to You know this is where my my computer skills are lacking.
- 04:58
- I tried to pull this diagram out and it was just Funky It helps to see his
- 05:11
- Areas his effort here, and what he essentially did and I'll do it by hand What he essentially did was he said look here's here's the father see
- 05:22
- I'm gonna do it by hand literally He said here's the father Here's all of creation
- 05:29
- And he said here's the Sun over on the side a separate creation
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- Okay, not part of this Above all the rest of creation but not the father and not
- 05:45
- Eternal So yeah, I mean he he tried to separate the two and he went so far as to be wrong and heretical
- 05:57
- And that well, that's one of the problems with the Trinity, right? It's hard to Not be a heretic
- 06:04
- That'd be a good name for the class how not to be a heretic Okay, and Let's see so Barrett says about areas.
- 06:15
- He says for areas the Sun is not begotten from Eternity he has a beginning and That's interesting because if you talk to Jehovah Witnesses if you talk to Mormons if you talk to a number of these other folks did
- 06:29
- I mention the the Jehovah Witness who called my house? Yeah, they called my house
- 06:35
- Okay, so I just I just told Lisa so Lisa's gonna have to bear with me So it's about ten days ago the phone rings and you know, you get a lot of spam calls
- 06:44
- I mean, I could ask who gets spam calls, but everybody gets spam calls Of course, I could say how many of you have a house line and probably that's
- 06:53
- People are like, what do you have that for all you get a spam calls? Well, that's true except that way I don't get as many on my
- 06:59
- Cell phone. I hardly ever get one on my cell phone, and I don't know why but that delights me
- 07:09
- So Phone rings and somebody started he asked me I think, you know, his initial question was, you know
- 07:15
- I I think he was shocked that he got to talk to a person and then he said You know something like are you interested in spiritual things or something like that?
- 07:25
- And I said yes, and we started talking and eventually he asked me and I thought this was funny
- 07:31
- Because I started like rebutting what he was saying knowing that it was a Jehovah Witness I mean it took like two seconds to realize that because frankly no
- 07:39
- Christian would call me Which is kind of sad but anyway He says eventually he goes
- 07:48
- Are you a Mormon? And I said no And he said hmm
- 07:56
- Catholic No He's like, what are you and I and I said,
- 08:02
- I'm I mean not even wanting to narrow things down They're not wanting to give him anything. I just said
- 08:07
- I'm a Protestant Could have said I was a Baptist could have said
- 08:13
- I was a pastor. I didn't do any of that I just said, you know, I'm a Protestant and What was interesting to me is of all the places in the
- 08:22
- Bible where a Jehovah Witness might take you to prove his case Where do you think he went? Colossians is correct
- 08:32
- Colossians 1 Colossians 1 verse And and I just thought
- 08:39
- I mean as soon as he said that I just I started rub my hands together right I was like perfect awesome
- 08:46
- So let's look at Colossians 1 for a minute because I thought this is this is where I wanted to go
- 08:51
- So excellent, you know, I'm I'm going thank you for doing my work for me You know as soon as you're talking to a cultist you think okay, how do
- 09:03
- I give this man the gospel? How do I tell him, you know, he doesn't believe that Jesus is eternally God.
- 09:09
- How do I convince him that he is eternally God? So Colossians 115 he goes, would you read it?
- 09:14
- And I said I've got tears running down my face.
- 09:21
- I'm just so delighted. Yeah, sure he is the image of the invisible
- 09:27
- God the firstborn of all creation and What do you think he does
- 09:34
- First born first born First born how do you answer that?
- 09:42
- He says well, he's the firstborn Which is good right for by him all things were created in heaven and on earth
- 09:54
- Visible and invisible whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities all things were created through him and for him
- 10:01
- And he is before all things and in him all things hold together. Now that pretty much sounds like what? God It's kind of hard to get around that right, but he wants to focus on Firstborn why?
- 10:24
- It makes it sound like he's created because he is an Aryan He is a spiritual descendant of Arius What's the problem with that emphasis on firstborn?
- 10:39
- What's that? It's his position.
- 10:45
- That's very good And let's see what the the non -authorized version says about that the firstborn of all creation
- 10:54
- Paul is not saying that the son was the first created being In in the
- 11:01
- Old Testament firstborn son was the principal heir of an estate and the term is used
- 11:07
- Metaphorically to express the preeminence of David and his dynasty Used of Christ the term firstborn ascribes to him supremacy
- 11:17
- Honor and dignity. He is the greater David and of the father's principal heir Christ is especially loved by his father
- 11:26
- Which is right I said to him you know And this is just something to put in your pocket and save for another day.
- 11:33
- I said well the Greek word there is prototokos Which means preeminent and you're like yeah sure
- 11:38
- I'll just whip that out But if you hear it enough you will Means preeminence and I said just think about it was he the firstborn in history the answer is no
- 11:49
- You know and I said I started going down this road, and then I just realized you know what this is all pointless this guy was obviously
- 11:55
- Now this is gonna sound sad and ageist of me, but he's even older than I am
- 12:00
- I'm listening to him I'm going that's an old man. I'm talking to and if I say that you know he's really old So I thought what does he what does he need?
- 12:12
- He's the gospel so I just go let me just tell you about Jesus And so I just went through the whole thing and and I said
- 12:18
- I said let me ask you this I said If I listen to you, how do
- 12:24
- I get to heaven? What was his answer?
- 12:37
- Yeah, well, it would be do this and do this but instead he was honest and he said Hey lad.
- 12:43
- I mean if he was Irish. He'd say I lied Scott oh
- 12:51
- Patrick he'd go oh oh Patrick heaven is full. Don't you know?
- 12:57
- The best you can do is hope for an aisle seat on earth I mean they they don't believe
- 13:04
- Jehovah Witnesses don't believe that you can get into heaven heaven's full It's 144 ,000 and you didn't make the cut
- 13:11
- Too late for you So the best you could do like I said is you know maybe a good bus ride on earth
- 13:18
- It's just you know sad times But this is this is you know when we when we do this when we walk through kind of church history and what people have
- 13:29
- Done in the past. It's helpful because like my wife often tells me Like three times a day at least
- 13:38
- There's nothing new under the Sun There is nothing new under the Sun so all these heresies
- 13:44
- Just get recycled and you say well, what are we talking about areas for because areas is alive and well
- 13:50
- This is the Jehovah Witnesses. This is Mormons. This is any number of cults that pop up and say
- 13:57
- Jesus isn't God You know how silly can you be to believe in the
- 14:02
- Trinity we need some soundproofing this building
- 14:09
- What is that if those are the ladies? I'm gonna be firing tear gas up there Yeah, I mean even
- 14:30
- Islam has like elements of Arianism because they say Jesus is a prophet he
- 14:36
- God has but they would say he has no son, but he's definitely a created being Now we come to verse 8 now that I've given that all away true or false because of Colossians 115 we can be assured that Jesus is the first created being
- 14:52
- I I hope you got false, and then
- 14:57
- I have in my notes. You know the word prototic us which means pertaining to having special status
- 15:05
- So that's the idea there of and it says of Christ as the firstborn of a new humanity
- 15:12
- Which is to be glorified as it so if you wanted to think about it that way would that be correct yes?
- 15:18
- Um Okay Number nine since we've already covered number eight number nine
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- How do we know that the glory of God was not given to Jesus as a gift? Because that's another areas theory right that That God shares his glory.
- 15:42
- He sees what Jesus has done and therefore he gives Jesus His glory can you think of a scripture that yeah, it's amazing.
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- Did you look at my notes? John John 17 5 and now father listen glorify me in your own presence
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- With the glory that I had with you before the world existed. That's pretty rough.
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- You know to think that Jesus is Created when you hear that kind of language
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- John 17 5 well,
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- I I think so because I think he's pointing to his post Resurrection you know glory and You know in his prayer,
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- I I think it's you know along the lines of I Know it's time for me to go so you know let's let's get this thing on the on the road praying for that So here's what?
- 16:58
- area said via Barrett in his book Jesus is creation's mediator before God He is not from the very being of God, but the effect or product of God's will
- 17:13
- External to God so kind of like the diagram. I was trying to enact. You know I don't think I won any
- 17:18
- Emmys but he's external to God as Privileged as he is as the first of creation the glory of God is bestowed upon him as a gift the one monarch
- 17:31
- God Remains incomprehensible to the Sun for he is not a son by nature, but by grace
- 17:38
- I Mean that's I I've said this before I'll say it again right now.
- 17:49
- Here's what? Heretics like areas do inevitably they try to make
- 17:56
- God Comprehensible they try to make God something we can wrap our arms around and so they also do that with the
- 18:03
- Trinity They say look if you just kind of if you take what the creeds and confessions have always said about God if you take what?
- 18:11
- The theologians have said about God you're never going to understand him, so let me explain what he's like He's really not that different from you and me and so Jesus is just the ultimate
- 18:21
- I mean, this is the road to liberalism to we were talking about it yesterday morning This is a road to liberalism
- 18:26
- Jesus is the ultimate example. He's the ultimate man But that's what he is he's man.
- 18:34
- He's a special man, but that's all he is Yeah, there has to be some kind of special relationship between the father and the son because there's definitely
- 18:45
- You know that that glory that exists only with God that is bestowed upon Jesus in Isaiah 42 verse 8
- 19:02
- Yeah, and and You know I I would have to study this
- 19:08
- But I would I would tend to think because as soon as you said Isaiah 42, what did I think? You're like I have no idea
- 19:15
- Steve. You're your mind is cloudy and Opaque and filled with cobwebs to me.
- 19:21
- I have no idea whatsoever But what I started thinking was in fact This Bible this is not inspired, but it says right above Isaiah 42 the
- 19:32
- Lord's chosen servant Why this is one of those passages in Isaiah along with Isaiah 49
- 19:42
- Isaiah 53 Isaiah 56 they're called Servant songs okay, and they have to do with Christ, so I haven't studied
- 19:51
- Isaiah 42 Verse 8, but there's a there's a possibility That this is actually the pre -incarnate
- 19:59
- Christ that is being that is speaking here But that's speculation don't hold me to it.
- 20:07
- I haven't read a commentary or anything on it recently so I Am the Lord that is my name my glory
- 20:14
- I give to no other nor my praise to carved Idols, so it could be either like what
- 20:20
- Charlie was saying that it's the father saying I won't give my glory to another but the son has the glory so therefore
- 20:27
- Obviously the son and the father are one or this could be the pre -incarnate Christ And it's just a statement of Trinity saying
- 20:36
- The trinity of God saying there's nobody else but me which he says all throughout this whole
- 20:41
- Section not just in Isaiah 42, but Isaiah 43 and on and on and on you'll see these passages
- 20:48
- Isaiah 44 I know it's there too where God says basically There are no other gods all these other things are idols.
- 20:56
- You know I'm I am it Good yeah, Dave. I probably wouldn't
- 21:05
- Give any That's a good question
- 21:16
- What do you think? Okay, and I would agree with that.
- 21:25
- I think it specifically talks is talking about the glory of deity. Yes number 10
- 21:32
- True or false it is insufficient to say merely that the father and son are one in will
- 21:39
- You know how I know it's true the infallible yellow
- 21:47
- Highlighter it never makes a mistake I'll see so question
- 21:58
- This is I believe all out of the book with Arius's emphasis on the subordination of the
- 22:03
- Sun What is what is it then that unites the father and the son?
- 22:12
- Arianism's answer in other words Arius's answer the unity cannot be a unity of being
- 22:18
- But can only be a unity of will so that's what the Arians will say that's what the
- 22:25
- Mormons will say that's what I used to say when I was a Mormon Well, what in what in what sense when
- 22:30
- Jesus says I and the Father are one what did he mean? He meant a unity of will they say not a unity of being the problem is let's look at John 10 verses 27 to 33
- 23:00
- Jesus speaking he says my sheep hear my voice, and I know them and they follow me I Give them eternal life, and they will never perish and no one will snatch them out of my hand
- 23:13
- Now that statement all by itself. I mean does that not sound like God I? Will give them eternal life who can give eternal life
- 23:23
- They will never perish. That's a pretty good promise and No one will snatch them out of my hand again
- 23:30
- That's either a you know a crazed man Delusional man or that's
- 23:35
- God in the flesh Verse 29 my father who has given them to me is
- 23:42
- Greater than all and no one is able to snatch them out of the father's hand nobody can take them out of my hand
- 23:49
- Nobody can take them out of the father's hand then he says in verse 30. I and the father are one
- 23:55
- Now somebody might say well, they're one in will that's the point and As Corey said a moment ago keep reading
- 24:04
- Verse 31 the Jews picked up stones again to stone him Jesus answered them
- 24:09
- I've shown you many good works from the father for which of them are you going to stone me which just reminds me of you know
- 24:15
- Peter and John Going on trial before the Sanhedrin and they say are you putting us on trial for healing that guy that that doesn't seem right?
- 24:23
- You know it's like kind of the same thing here. Are you guys gonna stone me for for the good works? I'm doing verse 33
- 24:30
- The Jews answered him it is not for a good work that we are going to stone you
- 24:35
- But for blasphemy because you being a man make yourself God the original audience
- 24:43
- The Jewish leadership listen to Jesus and what did they conclude? Not you know this
- 24:50
- Jesus. He's a pretty holy man or This Jesus he's kind of a nut they decided he was claiming to Be God Not united in purpose with God, but claiming to be
- 25:07
- God And you know what would be the the easy thing for Jesus to do here what?
- 25:16
- Yeah, verse 34. He ought to just have started and said wait a minute guys power down That's not what
- 25:24
- I'm saying, but he doesn't do that. Well.
- 25:30
- I thought you were gonna ask a question, okay? I mean that you know if he's not God if he's a created being if he is you know
- 25:37
- The firstborn so to speak if he's not God come in the flesh
- 25:44
- Then we would expect him to say whoa hold your horses Take it easy take a breath take a beat.
- 25:53
- He doesn't do that Yes, I'm just a guy
- 26:17
- Yeah, what's the problem with that? Well besides that If we if we look at the psalm isn't it as a
- 26:30
- Psalm 82 is that what it is? Because I think you know even the
- 26:39
- Mormons would say something like that Actually what they do is they use the his citation of Psalm 82 to say what that they can become gods
- 26:51
- Right you know that that was Jesus's point was it really hey Jesus We're gonna stone you for making yourself out to be
- 26:58
- God well You know if I could just be honest with you guys for a second you can be gods, too What's that?
- 27:07
- Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's so easy Psalm 82
- 27:14
- Verse 6 I said you are gods Sons of the Most High all of you, and then you have to keep reading verse 7
- 27:21
- Nevertheless like men you shall die and fail like any prince.
- 27:28
- It's pretty hard to take that and apply that in that sense to Jesus what he was really saying there is even in The Jewish leaders had power over life and death and that was true in the
- 27:44
- Old Testament But that's you know I mean he he's he's making an analogy there, but he's not saying
- 27:53
- You guys can become gods or even I'm not really God. I'm just kind of you know powerful like You guys are
- 28:00
- I? Mean over and over again. He makes this the statements that lead to only one possible conclusion that he is
- 28:09
- God Other thoughts questions comments yes, Andrew The exact imprint of his nature in Hebrews 1 3 and he upholds the universe good excellent
- 28:41
- I mean that you know he is I think the the Greek word is icon. You know he's and And I think it's good not not from a physical
- 28:53
- You know Resemblance obviously that the son Perfectly ident or perfectly represents the father, but it's this kind of spiritual and in power in every way
- 29:06
- The son is exactly like the father Good Yes Yep, yeah, if you've seen me you've seen the father.
- 29:26
- Yes Yeah, I mean now you could use that in what sense I mean I and I have to I'll just skip to the the funny thing
- 29:34
- I think I've mentioned this before, but how many of you have ever dealt with Mormon missionaries have you ever seen their film?
- 29:45
- Because when they show you like a little presentation I guess back in the days when you know
- 29:51
- I was a kid they would even They had like little films, but they also had little presentations.
- 29:58
- They would bring Little boards you know storyboard kind of things but when they would show
- 30:05
- Joseph Smith the founder of Mormonism when he was 14 going and praying and the in the forest and God the
- 30:13
- Father would Appear to him not just speak to him right But actually appear to him this and of course
- 30:21
- God the Father had a body you know was a pure like well actually what he looked like was a very white guy with gray hair and you know a gray beard and all that and Then his son he because he would introduce his son who would then appear and they look like twins
- 30:45
- That's not the sense in which you know In which he
- 30:51
- Jesus is speaking they don't look alike you know that's not that's not the point in fact
- 30:56
- What did Jesus say about the Father in John chapter 4? He's spirit
- 31:04
- He's spirit God is a spirit That's you know if we just think about this way that The great marvel of the incarnation and for whatever reason
- 31:18
- I want to say incantation but incarnation Isn't that You know a baby was born it was the eternal
- 31:29
- Spirit the second person of the Trinity took on human flesh and came into his creation
- 31:36
- I mean if if God the Father is a Glorified man as the
- 31:45
- Mormons would have it and Jesus comes and he's a man. Well the incarnation is not that special The incarnation is not that different.
- 31:54
- What makes it gloriously different and unique Is that Jesus?
- 32:03
- Eternally God without a human body takes on a human body a human nature becomes one person with two natures
- 32:15
- Yeah, yeah, if he looks like anybody he probably looks like Mary. Yep agreed and not a
- 32:23
- European dude with With all that so with it
- 32:29
- With a neatly trimmed white man's beard. I mean it looks like you know he just stepped out of GQ or something
- 32:40
- Okay Number 11 in some ways
- 32:52
- Are we on 11? Yeah, we are okay number 11 true or false in some ways the actions of the
- 32:58
- Sun are inferior to those of the father Sounds pretty false, and let's see let's see what the highlighter says false
- 33:12
- False Bear says don't miss this with such an emphasis on will
- 33:20
- Arianism is Not only an ontological subordination, but a functional subordination.
- 33:26
- I'm gonna go to the judges What does that mean? Okay, so he's a lesser being
- 33:44
- According to Arianism which would be consistent with Jehovah Witnesses consistent with the
- 33:50
- Mormons And I'm sure there are some other cults out there that you know we're not talking about here today, but He's not only in Being lesser, but he has a lesser role
- 34:05
- In other words the Sun is in fear not only as a person but in his actions so Here are some
- 34:16
- Verses that that I came up with that's amazing that would would kind of refute that John 536 but the testimony that I have is
- 34:24
- Greater than that of John for the works that the father has given me to accomplish the very works that I am doing
- 34:31
- Bear witness about me that the father has sent me in other words These works are
- 34:38
- Exactly what the father wanted John 10 37 and 38 if I'm not doing the works of my father
- 34:46
- Then do not believe me the very works of my father then do not believe me But if I do them even though you do not believe me believe the works
- 34:54
- That you may know and understand that the father is in me, and I am in the father I Think that's a pretty clear statement about his essential equality
- 35:07
- Equality in essence equality in action John 14 10 and 11 do not do you not believe that I am in the father and the father is in me
- 35:17
- The words that I say to you do not speak or I do not speak on my own authority, but the father who dwells in me
- 35:24
- Does his works? Believe me that I am in the father and the father is in me or else believe on account of the works themselves
- 35:33
- He wouldn't point to inferior works and say believe in these works I Mean there are so many terms that have to be defined there
- 35:41
- Charlie. You're not helping me with Active obedience
- 35:48
- Active obedience means that Jesus what? Obeyed Yes, perfectly obeyed the law yeah
- 35:58
- Just like no stop So we fully obeyed the law that's active obedience.
- 36:07
- What was the rest of the question I? Like I had to just you know transcribe that as we ever go log, okay stop yes
- 36:21
- Active obedience fully obeying the law we go to heaven why?
- 36:27
- Because Jesus obeyed in our place in other words. It's not enough that it's
- 36:34
- Wonderful don't get me wrong. It's not enough that Jesus died for our sins that does what for us
- 36:42
- Gets us back to zero then we need the righteousness without which no one
- 36:47
- Will see heaven right where does that righteousness come from there are two possible options one is us
- 36:56
- Which is what many people believe and many? false religions teach
- 37:02
- Yes, and I think it is Roman Catholic, right They believe that baptism gets you back to neutral, and then how do you get to heaven you get to heaven by your works?
- 37:12
- Okay, so so we're tracking with Charlie so far. I see
- 37:18
- I hope if I drag this on long enough. He'll forget his question Don't think I'm not trying that okay
- 37:25
- Okay, so his righteousness is You know well it meets this let's put it this way if we just think
- 37:32
- Jesus said Be there for perfect right Matthew 548 you have to be perfect to inherit the kingdom of heaven
- 37:40
- And that's what he does he perfectly obeys so that Yes, those who are in Christ can enter into heaven why?
- 37:51
- because we through Christ have met the standard of perfection
- 37:58
- That is demanded yes Andrew Yeah, he used to believe that he yeah,
- 38:09
- I mean I mean our Our best works are tainted by sin there you know And his having no sin.
- 38:17
- They are really their true righteousness. They're true I don't remember where I saw this, but I'll just oh, you know what it must have been in Machen Just the idea talking about true righteousness just this idea that everything and now
- 38:36
- I just forgot what I was going to say But it's this if the perfections of Christ are
- 38:45
- You know basically I don't want to say they're assigned to us, but they're granted to us.
- 38:50
- They're imputed to us and And that's where you know part of where I was going to forget the rest of it, so it doesn't really matter
- 38:56
- It wasn't it wasn't meant to be It's like you know when when I make a mistake And I'm like well.
- 39:04
- You know that mistake was exactly what the Lord ordained I mean, it's you know it's all of the
- 39:20
- Lord so okay So we read that did that boy number 12
- 39:27
- Let's see. Yeah, let's see if we can do that. Maybe number 12 There is a difference true or false there is a difference between being begotten and being made
- 39:37
- You guys are pretty good today Yeah Yeah, the highlighter says true, so it is true
- 39:48
- Notice in the Nicene Creed the emphasis on the eternal generation of the
- 39:53
- Sun He is begotten and by the way the Nicene Creed was written in response to whom or what?
- 39:59
- Arius You know this is a time of year where we like to celebrate st.
- 40:05
- Nick punching you know arius I've seen so many of those.
- 40:13
- I wish I was doing like overhead projectors because I do the whole you know st. Nick thing But it's okay
- 40:20
- Notice in the Nicene Creed the emphasis on the eternal generation of the Sun. He's eternally generated that means to say that before anything was
- 40:30
- He was generated of the father he is begotten from the father But by begotten the
- 40:36
- Nicene fathers did not mean what the Aryans meant that Jesus is created No, the
- 40:42
- Sun is begotten not made. There's a difference For us creatures to be begotten is to come into existence for the first time
- 40:51
- Arius was so literal in his thinking that he could not understand the biblical metaphor when applied to God Defies any limitations it might have in our world
- 41:01
- Yes, the Sun is begotten. That is the very definition of a Sun But since this is the eternal infinite immutable and impassable
- 41:11
- God We are talking about the Sun's generation is eternal Infinite immutable and impassable meaning he can have no beginning as creation does
- 41:22
- Now here's here's the problem for us We think
- 41:30
- Father means I mean before I had any children was I a father No, and so what do we do?
- 41:38
- We think to ourselves? Well the father in order to be a father had to have a son right a child and Since there are
- 41:51
- Since that's a process then there was a time when God was not the father
- 41:58
- True or false false Okay, because being a son has a beginning
- 42:06
- Then Jesus was not always the son False and and you know, but then we start thinking well, that's impossible.
- 42:15
- Well, what's our problem? We're bound by time We're creatures.
- 42:21
- We're using our own logic and our own reason and our own Understanding of what it is to do this and to do this and to do this, but we're all in time
- 42:33
- Right. Yes, Cory Yeah, like uh -huh
- 42:40
- Words of accommodation. Yes. Yes. Yes. I I like that word because it helps us. It's an accommodation
- 42:46
- Like the Bible says God has an arm, you know, his mighty arm can save Got the
- 42:52
- Bible says that God can you know, his eye is you know on the sparrow whatever it says, you know, they're
- 43:00
- He Hears this and he bends his ear to do this and you know all these kind of things.
- 43:06
- Well are those things True. Well, yes in a sense, but in the big picture
- 43:12
- There are accommodations There there pictures given to us so that we can go. Oh So God hears my prayers in the same way, you know,
- 43:22
- I hear my wife say Steve put that down don't eat it And that's not
- 43:33
- That's not correct Right. I mean that's a because he knows everything and he's everywhere and all these things
- 43:39
- But you know for us to just kind of wrap our arms around it and go, okay I understand that God is omniscient and he's you know, he knows everything.
- 43:49
- He's everywhere Here's everything he did, you know did it those things are overwhelming to us?
- 43:55
- So we have these accommodations of Scripture just like with the Father and the Son so to help us understand
- 44:01
- Dave It's a good question. We'll save it for next week. Ah Okay, I Have to I have to back up after back out for a second because I know there's a word you put in there that I Really don't like What's the word?
- 44:17
- Just I I don't like that Because they're not just terms of accommodation.
- 44:23
- They do help us understand it. But in some way they do describe The relationship between the two of them
- 44:32
- Right, they help us to understand more about the father because he is
- 44:39
- Eternal and in fact theologians would describe him as what? Un -begotten
- 44:46
- Okay and he is kind of the
- 44:54
- See, I don't want to say this without you know about to Steve's about to step into heresy We would we would readily say that the
- 45:07
- Spirit You know is of the same substance as the Son and the Father and the Son is of the same substance as the
- 45:13
- Father But it's a little harder to say for example that the Father is of the same substance as this
- 45:20
- You know because he has that He is ultimately the source
- 45:27
- And you know, well does that mean he was first? No, because again we want we're wanting to put things in at a time and we have to close
- 45:34
- But I just again I want to give you this picture if we just it I think it helps us a lot if we stop thinking about time as necessarily being bigger than the universe
- 45:47
- You know that time is the thing that holds everything together That's false time is a creation and time is
- 45:55
- I think it's fair to say for God. It's not Different much different than a place like, you know, you say why
- 46:06
- I want to go to Aruba We'll then go to Aruba Right God says
- 46:12
- I want to you know do something in time Well, that's something he has to like it because he's outside of time
- 46:20
- And we tend to neglect that and tend to forget that and tend to make our thoughts of God too human
- 46:29
- So we want to constrain him in the same way that we're constrained and we ought not to do that But we have to close we're out of time
- 46:36
- So let's close in prayer and we can pick up Dave's Question here next week father we thank you for some of this is frankly, it's it's kind of mind -bending and and you know, it's awe -inspiring but this is good.
- 46:54
- It's good for us to to look at your word to be reminded of why you have given us these
- 47:02
- These guardrails the the confessions and the creeds throughout the centuries to Understand you better and to keep us from drifting into Wrong thinking about you about your son about the spirits father
- 47:16
- I pray that you would help us to learn it to grow not so that we could become Intellectual Giants, but so that we might know you better that we might love you more that we might be able to look at your word
- 47:28
- And understand it more deeply father. We thank you for this time. We thank you for Salvation full and free in Christ and we pray in Jesus name.