Targeting Jews for Conversion

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And good afternoon welcome to the dividing line yes, you can unfortunately ignore those numbers yet again this week we

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Continue to work toward hopefully being live again someday in the future but at the moment we do not have the ability to live webcast and Pray toward the end that that we will eventually be able to do that Today on the program possibly a little bit shorter than the normal 90 minutes

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We were a little bit shorter last week as well because without Interaction from you folks.

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Well. It's just a little bit difficult to go for 90 minutes Because that interaction is very very important even the interaction in the in the channel is very very useful along those lines

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Just pretty much one topic this week. We'll see how long we need to go on it to cover it and then

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Move on from there, and that is the release of an article not an article a statement

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By the United States Conference of Catholic bishops this can be found at www .usccb

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.org www .usccb .org This of course is the body of Roman Catholic bishops in the

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United States and It is not in that sense the

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Vatican in Rome of course But I would argue that if the bishops of a particular church gathered together in a particular nation put out a statement and The leadership of that church which may be someplace else for example in Rome does not refute that statement that obviously the result of that is that the

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Perspective enunciated therein would be acceptable to the leadership of the church It is very very common for Roman Catholic apologists to attempt to minimize the target

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Shall we say and say well, you know that's not official doctrine. That's just simply what a Pope taught or something like that And the problem with that of course is that if this is allegedly

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Christ Church these are Christ's shepherds That they would not allow

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Boldly false doctrine to be promulgated while they sit upon their hands and say nothing and I've used that argument in pointing out for example the fact that the

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Roman Catholic Church having elevated Alphonsus de Liguri to The position of a doctor of the church having allowed 800 editions of his book the glories of Mary to be published has by allowing that A Promulgated the teachings contained therein maybe not on the level of dogma as they would like to argue

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But if Rome does not correct that kind of false teaching Then how can these people be considered to be bishops in any biblical sense that term at all?

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And so here when you have them as a group putting out a statement from the United States Conference of Catholic bishops

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And the fact that Certainly nothing has been said by Rome thus far and in fact

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I think anyone who is aware of the actual situation within Roman Catholicism knows that the

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Activity that is represented in the Statement that has been made is

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Not just in the United States. It is it is really common for the entirety of the of the

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Catholic Church in the world today and so this is really nothing new at all and It is really representative of the theology that is found within Roman Catholic institutions in the

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United States Europe all over the place Now I'm referring to it the title here on the website article reflections on covenant and mission is the official name of the statement reflections on covenant and mission

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Issued by bishops ecumenical and inter -religious Affairs Committee and the National Council of Synagogues says targeting

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Jews for conversion is not acceptable and this was released

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August 12th 2002 just a few days ago five days ago in fact and So I read from the the actual website itself and the communication

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Leaders the Jewish Roman Catholic communities in the United States who have been meeting to discuss topics affecting

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Catholic Jewish relations Twice a year for more than two decades made public today August 12th a document entitled reflections on covenant and mission citing the growing respect for the

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Jewish tradition that has unfolded since Vatican the second Vatican Council and the deepening

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Catholic Appreciation of the eternal covenant between God and the Jewish people the Catholic portion of the reflections says that quote campaigns that target

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Jews for conversion to Christianity are no longer Theologically acceptable in the

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Catholic Church and quote. Let me stop for just a moment. I think it is significant That it specifically says no longer

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Theologically acceptable in the Catholic Church. I think most people are aware of the historical relationship between Rome and the

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Jewish people and the forced conversions that are a part of Roman history and that is why

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I think the terminology no longer is found here. I Continue on quote this joint reflection marks a significant step forward in the dialogue between the

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Catholic Church and the Jewish community in this country Said Cardinal William Keillor the US bishops moderator for Catholic Jewish relations

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Here one can see perhaps more clearly than ever before an essential compatibility

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Along with equally significant Differences between the Christian and Jewish understanding of God's call to both our peoples to witness to the name of the one

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God To the world in harmony. I hope you're listening carefully to them

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This echoes the words of Pope John Paul the second praying that as Christians and Jews We may be a blessing to one another so that together

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We may be a blessing to the world Pope John Paul the second on the 50th anniversary of the

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Warsaw Ghetto Uprising April 6 1993 Rabbi Gilbert Rosenthal executive director of the

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National Council Synagogue said the point Jewish the joint excuse me I've outlined all this in yellow and sometimes

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P and J disappear there The joint Catholic Jewish statement on missions is yet another step in Turning a new page in the often stormy relationship between the

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Jewish people in the Roman Catholic Church Neither faith group believes that we should be that we should mission eyes among the other in order to save souls via Conversion quite the contrary.

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We believe both faith groups are beloved of God and assured of his grace the joint mission statement has articulated a new goal namely the healing of a sick world and The imperative to repair the damage we humans have caused to God's creations

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We believe we are partners in bringing blessings to all humankind for this is

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God's will I Continue on a little bit down below that the

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Roman Catholic Reflections described the growing respect for the Jewish tradition that has unfolded since the

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Second Vatican Council a deepening Catholic Appreciation of the eternal covenant between God and the

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Jewish people Together with a recognition of a divinely given mission to Jews to witness to God's faithful love lead to the conclusion that campaigns that target

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Jews for conversion to Christianity are No longer theologically acceptable in the

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Catholic Church. They state The Jewish reflections describe the mission of the Jews and the perfection of the world

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This mission is seen to have three aspects first There are the obligations that arise the result of the loving election of the

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Jewish people into a covenant with God Second there is a mission of witness to God's redeeming power in the world third

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The Jewish people have a mission that is addressed to all human beings the Jewish reflections conclude by urging

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Jews and Christians to articulate a Common agenda to do what to heal the world?

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To Heal the world not sure how you heal the world outside of Jesus Christ, but that seemingly is

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What is going on here? And so going to the actual document itself? That was just a summary provided by the

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USCCB in the Document itself we've already seen the the statement concerning the the fact that Targeting Jews for conversion to Christianity is no longer theologically acceptable in the

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Catholic Church I Of course would immediately have to ask the question.

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Well, what were the Apostles doing in the book of Acts? and so That that of course is is a question that I would immediately want to ask but I don't get to ask questions like that Anyways under the

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Roman Catholic reflections, this is very very important. I think this really for for people who find the

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Whole debate the the constant debate on solo scriptura Somewhat, I don't know less than passion creating

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This is I think vitally important to hear what happens when you abandon solo scriptura.

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You've got the Marian dogmas that's what happens when you abandon solo scriptura, but even more so Listen to this under the introduction from the

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Roman Catholic reflections. They're part of this document The gifts brought by the

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Holy Spirit to the church through the Second Vatican Council's declaration. Nostra aetate aetate

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Continued to unfold. Why don't they just you know, put that anyways the decades since its proclamation 1965 have witnessed a steady rapprochement between the

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Roman Catholic Church and the Jewish people Although controversies and misunderstandings continue to occur.

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There has nonetheless been a gradual deepening of mutual understanding common purpose. So Nostra aetate is a document of the

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Second Vatican Council similar to Dei verbum and so on and so forth and Notice how it's described

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The gifts brought by the Holy Spirit to the church through this document

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Now, I don't know about anybody else But when Catholic apologists are so quick to say, oh wait

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We don't believe in continuing revelation and we don't believe in nervousness stuff but you know It sounds to me like this document is being viewed as a a gift to the church now

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I suppose someone might see maybe a confession of faith as a gift to the church in one in one context

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But remember in in Rome in the Roman Catholic context, you don't have sola scriptura. You don't have that fundamental differentiation of that which is the anus toss that which is

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God breathes from the tradition of the church in fact that which is God breathes is is made a portion of the overall

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Tradition of the church the written portion over against the oral portion so on and so forth and so This document then is seen as being the the the the baseline the ground from which this new perspective has come and it is

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Attributed to the Holy Spirit of God Now I think most of us can realize that we're gonna look at a couple passages of scripture

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But I think most of us can realize that to say that you can be saved by being

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Jewish but while rejecting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior is as unbiblical and un -christian a perspective as a person could possibly hold and yet because of the denial of sola scriptura and the elevation of these conciliar documents to a position where they're seen as being gifts

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Brought by the Holy Spirit to the church because of the elevation of the church to an infallible oracle you can have in essence the entire negation of the gospel and Say that it comes from the

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Holy Spirit of God So keep this in mind when you hear the the arguments that Roman Catholic apologists throughout against sola scriptura the whole reason they argue the way that they argue is to make room for this kind of Unbiblical thing you would never come

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To this type of conclusions the exegesis of the writings of the Apostles No one exegeting the entirety of what we know to be the

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Anustos in scripture would ever come to the conclusion that The Apostles were wrong to be evangelizing the

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Jews in Judea and in Jerusalem He wouldn't come to that conclusion.

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And yet that's exactly what you have being presented here as if it is a

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Revelation not a revelation but a gift of the Holy Spirit of the church. Let's read some more from this document

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They go through a number of Catholic statements and documents that have come out since Vatican to based upon Vatican to statements and a survey of these

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Catholic statements over the past few decades shows that they have Progressively been considering more and more aspects of the complex relationship between Jews and Catholics Together with their impact on the practice of the

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Catholic faith this work inspired by Nostra aetate Has involved interfaith dialogue

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Excuse me collaborative educational ventures and joint theological and historical research by Catholics and Jews It will continue into the new century

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At The present moment in this process of renewal the subjects of covenant and mission have come to the forefront

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Nostra aetate, that's let's stick with one pronunciation here James Nostra aetate

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My word processor doesn't like this word. So it has it all underlined and everything else initiated this thinking by citing

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Romans 11 28 to 29 and Describing the Jewish people as very dear to God for the sake of the

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Patriarch since God does not take back the gifts He bestowed or the choice he made John Paul II has explicitly taught that Jews are the people of God of the

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Old Covenant never revoked by God the present -day people the covenant concluded with Moses and Partners in a covenant of eternal love which was never revoked.

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Now. Let me stop for just a moment if If I were to cite

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Pope John Paul in this way if I were to go to this section in that section in that section Even if I was fair to the context how many

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Roman Catholic apologists would immediately? Have a cow those are not official. That's that's not dogma and yet the

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US Council of Catholic bishops Can pull these little sections out of what

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Pope John Paul II has said and no one bats an eye Well because that's their their

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Catholics and you're not I think there's a great inconsistency that has been That is promulgated by that particular particular activity and I am

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NOT saying that they have misrepresented Pope John Paul II I think Pope John Paul II is a closet universalist.

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I have talked about this before he has made many statements in his homilies and things like that That refer to people of all religious faith living the light that God gives them and becoming heirs of eternal life and all the rest

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That stuff so I I don't have any question of any of that kind of activity in that kind of thing but certainly

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I do find it interesting that these citations would be just thrown together like that and That the

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Pope John Paul II would actually teach that the Old Covenant The Covenant described in the book of Hebrews as having passed away

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Is actually still in force well anyways I continue on with the document here the post

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Nostra a to take Catholic recognition of the permanence of the Jewish people's covenant relationship to God Has led to a new positive regard for the post biblical or rabbinic

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Jewish tradition that is unprecedented in Christian history the Vatican's 1974 guidelines insisted that Christians must strive to learn by what essential traits

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Jews to find themselves in light of their own religious experience The 1985 Vatican notes praised post biblical

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Judaism for carrying to the whole world a witness often heroic of its Fidelity the one

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God and to exalt him in the presence of all the living Tobit 13 for the notes went on to refer to John Paul II in urging

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Christians to remember how the Permanence of Israel is accompanied by a continuous spiritual fecundity in the rabbinical period in the

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Middle Ages and in modern times Taking its start from a patrimony Which we long shared so much so that the faith and religious life of the

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Jewish people as they are professed and practiced still today Can greatly help us to understand better certain aspects of the life of the church

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Pope John Paul II 6th of March 1982 This theme has been taken up in statements by the

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United States Catholic bishops such as God's mercy endures forever Which advised preachers to be free to draw on Jewish sources?

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Rabbinic medieval and modern in expounding the meaning of the Hebrew scriptures and apostolic writings

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Well, that's fascinating. I have to stop just there for a moment. Certainly. There's nothing wrong with that in the sense of It's the

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Protestants that took the lead in Recovering an understanding of Jewish backgrounds and things like that I wonder if it would also be okay to use those same sources to throw out the apocryphal books which the

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Jews never accepted as canon and I wonder if it's also right to then to point out that it's the

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Roman Catholic Church That was primarily responsible for the denigration of the study of the

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Hebrew scriptures Because the elevation of the infallible Vulgate in the Latin language I just wonder if that sort of flows along with any of the rest of these things that are being mentioned here

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Well, anyways, there are different sections of this document It goes on to talk about the mission of the church evangelization of course the problem is

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How do you evangelize? The Second Vatican Council summed up the church's mission as follows quote while helping the world and receiving many benefits from it

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The church has a single intention that God's kingdom may come that the salvation of the whole human race may come to pass

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The whole human race does that sound? Had bit universalistic for every benefit which the people of God during its earthly pilgrimage can offer to the human family stems from the fact that the church is the universal sacrament of salvation simultaneously manifesting and Exercising the mystery of God's love for humanity

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Did someone miss somewhere in there such things as the substitutionary atonement of Christ repentance of sin things like that?

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I sort of missed that myself. It's not really there and of course Liberals like to focus upon the lack of having those things there isolate statements so on so forth and that's basically what's what's going on, but anyhow

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That's right Jews don't pray to Mary Well, I guess you don't need to pray to Mary to get into heaven.

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Believe me. I realize a lot of Conservative Roman Catholics just find documents like this enough to pull their hair out.

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But hey, it's your church not mine You get to deal with it. Not me Anyways, so it talks about evangelization.

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And of course in the context of a document like this you then have to deal with evangelization and the

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Jewish people Christianity has an utterly unique relationship with Judaism because our two religious communities are connected and closely related to the very level of their respective

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Religious identities. Well true and false Christianity and Judaism are connected in the sense that the oracles of God were entrusted to the

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Jewish people, but didn't Paul say that We are the true circumcision

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Who worship God in the spirit? Of course, there's there's a lot of folks today that don't don't like what

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Paul had to say and and are rejecting what Paul had to say in regards to that particular thing, but anyways

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In the wake of Nostra Aetate there has been a deepening

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Catholic appreciation of many aspects of our unique spiritual linkage with Jews Specifically the

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Catholic Church has come to recognize that its mission of preparing for the coming of the kingdom of God is one that is shared with the Jewish people

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Now stop just saying it. It's shared with the Jewish people. They reject the king, but it's shared with the

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Jewish people I'm sorry. It's just difficult to take this kind of thing seriously, but this is the

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United States Conference of Catholic bishops This tells you a little bit something about the role of the scripture in in Roman Catholic theology or the lack thereof

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Even if Jews do not conceive of this task Christologically as the church does well, then how are we working for the same kingdom?

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Thus the 1985 Vatican notes observed Attentive attentive to the same

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God who has spoken Hang on the same word We have to witness to one same memory and one common hope in him who is the master of history now

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Let me stop again What is the Christian hope? How can you say that the

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Christian whose hope is the coming of Jesus Christ? Has a common hope with the

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Jewish person who knowing about Jesus Christ Rejects him as the

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Messiah I thought words had meaning But not in documents like this

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We must also accept our responsibility to prepare the world for the coming of the Messiah By working together for social justice respect for the rights of the persons and nations of her social and international reconciliation

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To this we are driven Jews and Christians by the command to love our neighbor by a common hope for the kingdom of God And by the great heritage of the prophets

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Good Waiting Preparing the world the coming of the

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Messiah by working together for social justice. I Thought that you prepared the world for the coming of the

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Messiah the second coming of the Messiah by the proclamation of the gospel of Jesus Christ which of course the

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Roman Catholic the Jew cannot do and Sadly Neither can throw him a

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Catholic because they don't have that gospel either for that matter. So I guess it makes sense that This really wouldn't make much sense if the church therefore shares a central and defining task with the

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Jewish people What are the implications for the Christian proclamation of the good news of Jesus Christ ought

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Christians to invite Jews to baptism? See what happens when you have a false gospel

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See, I don't invite Jews to baptism. I invite Jews to Jesus Christ and The baptism comes later

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This is a complex question Not only in terms of Christian theological self -definition, but also because the history of Christians forcibly baptizing

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Jews No, it is not a complex question for the person who believes in Sola Scriptura Because the scriptures are very plain on the matter and those who held the

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Sola Scriptura were not forcibly baptizing Jews Now were they no they were not Well, anyways in a remarkable and still most pertinent study paper presented the sixth meeting of the

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International Catholic Jewish Liaison Committee in Venice 25 years ago Professor Tommaso Federici examined the missy illogical implications of Nostra a tete

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He argued on historical theological grounds that there should be in the church. No organizations of any kind dedicated to the conversion of Jews This has over the ensuing years been the de facto practice of the

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Catholic Church and That is true that has become the de facto practice of the

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Catholic Church More recently Cardinal Walter Casper president the

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Pontifical Commission for the religious relations of Jews Explained this practice in a formal statement made first the 17th meeting the

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International Catholic Jewish Liaison Committee in May 2001 And repeated later in the year in Jerusalem Cardinal Casper spoke of mission in a narrow sense to mean

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Proclamation or the invitation to baptism and catechesis. He showed why such

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Initiatives are not Appropriately directed at Jews and here's the quote

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The term mission in its proper sense refers to conversion from false gods and idols to the true and one

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God Who revealed himself in the salvation history with his elected people? Thus mission in this strict sense cannot be used with regard to Jews who believe in the true and one

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God therefore and this is characteristic there exists dialogue, but there does not exist any

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Catholic missionary organization for Jews as We said previously dialogue is not mere objective information dialogue involves the whole person

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So in dialogue Jews gives witness of their faith Witness of what supported them in the dark periods of their history in their life and Christians give a cow the hope they have in Jesus Christ in doing so both are far away from any kind of proselytism

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But both can learn from each other and enrich each other We both want to share our deepest concerns to an often disoriented world that needs such witness and searches

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For it folks. The world is not looking for that kind of doublespeak The world is not looking for that kind of of inane liberal babble

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Those words don't mean anything. Well, the Christians give account of the hope they have in Jesus Christ.

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What hope The same hope that Jews have in following the law

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I'm sorry but I just keep having these strange feelings where I compare this stuff to what the

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Word of God says and I have to wonder if any of these folks have ever seriously considered the text of the book of Hebrews.

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Has it been decanonized? You really have to wonder well, anyways, we're going to continue on here in looking at this particular document and we're gonna

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Contrast it with what the Council of Florence had to say long ago and also look at some biblical passages

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We're gonna take our break first and be right back here on the dividing Death it's all works righteousness, you know

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Can I manufacture grace Some religious place by weeping hard on your face

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Saying prayers And welcome back the dividing line we are looking at the statement released

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August 12th by the u .s Conference of Catholic bishops on the subject of the evangelization of Jews or the lack of need thereof

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Obviously the whole point of this whole thing is that you can be saved outside of Jesus Christ You can be saved in the

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Old Covenant Anyone who has read the New Testament is scratching their head going. Excuse me. This is the continuation of apostolic teaching and theology and doctrine

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This is the continuation of the of the teaching of the Apostle Paul that that the

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Jews are worshiping the true and one God While rejecting

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Jesus Christ, I guess that means the Jehovah's Witnesses due to I bet you Catholic answers Will be very happy to read this daughter have to worry about Jehovah's Witnesses anymore because Jehovah's Witnesses a worship

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Jehovah God just like the Jews do So I guess that means they're okay. And and the

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Mormons say they worship the one Everything's wonderful folks. If the next Pope is not at least as conservative as or more conservative

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And then the current Pope The Roman Catholic Church will be teaching universalism openly and officially in no time

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Most of her theologians already believe it and if you're a Roman Catholic just get used to it

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That's many Roman Catholics already believe it Now, what are you conservative Roman Catholic apologists gonna do when your church officially says you've misunderstood them all along Or you could do what

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Cardinal Newman did just bow your head and go. Okay. Well, whatever you say Is that what you're gonna do that's what Sola Ecclesia demands that you do

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Because history and scripture are irrelevant Once the church says this is it you got to believe it.

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That's it. That's what you keep telling us, isn't it? Well, anyway, it's just a few more quotations from the document from the point of view of the

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Catholic Church Judaism is a religion that springs from divine revelation as Cardinal Casper noted

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God's grace Which is the grace of Jesus Christ according to our faith is available to all See what happens when you don't have a biblical doctrine of grace

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Therefore the church believes that Judaism ie the faithful response of the Jewish people to God's irrevocable

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Covenant is salvific for them Because God is faithful to his promises.

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Do you hear that? Irrevocable I thought there was something in the book of Hebrews about covenant passing away and Imperfections and no perfection comes through it and Someone just asked will

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Jews go to purgatory who knows? I think if these Catholic bishops had their way to get rid of purgatory, too

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It's just it it's a mass of error upon error upon error be getting more error and Once you have an allegedly infallible church, there's nothing you can do about it.

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There's nothing you can do about it This statement about God's saving covenant is quite specific to Judaism though The Catholic Church respects all religious traditions and through dialogue with them can discern the workings of the

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Holy Spirit Did you hear that I'm sorry, but I have dialogued with all sorts of religious traditions and I thought the

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Holy Spirit was a spirit of truth. I don't find the Holy Spirit in Mormonism. I guess Rome does The Holy Spirit is is working in the truth in in Buddhism in Islam Hi, yeah, and though we believe

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God's infinite grace is surely available to believers of other faiths There you go false grace again

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It is only about Israel's covenant that the church can speak with the certainty of the biblical witness

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Well only part of the biblical witness. Let's exclude Hebrews while we're at it this is because Israel's scriptures form part of our own biblical canon and they have a perpetual value that has not been canceled by the later interpretation of the

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New Testament Oh Did most folks just don't read this stuff most of the

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Catholic apologists that I know of don't read this stuff They don't go on to the Vatican website and read the left -wing liberal stuff.

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That is just pouring out of the Vatican According to Roman Catholic teaching both the church and the

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Jewish people abide in covenant with God We both therefore have missions before God to undertake in the world the church believes that the mission of the

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Jewish people is not restricted to their historical role as the People whom Jesus was born according to the flesh and from whom the church's

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Apostles came as Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger recently noted God's providence has obviously given Israel a particular mission in this time of the

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Gentiles However, only the Jewish people themselves can articulate their mission in the light of their own religious experience

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Thus while the Catholic Church regards the saving act of Christ as central to the process of human salvation for all

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Notice once you don't have a perfect Savior. It's a Process of human salvation.

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It also acknowledges that Jews already dwell in a saving covenant with God The Catholic Church must always evangelize and will always witness to its faith in the presence of God's kingdom in Jesus Christ to Jews and All of the people in so doing the

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Catholic Church respects fully the principles of religious freedom and freedom of conscience So that sincere individual converts from any tradition or people including the

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Jewish people will be welcomed and accepted I'm gonna stop right there and I'm gonna pick up the sources of Catholic dogma by Denzinger and I'm going to read from you.

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This is the English Compendium page 230 section 714 Denzinger 714 and I want you to think about what you just heard from the

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United States Council of Catholic bishops. I Want you to hear about how Jews worship the same God that we do even though they reject

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Jesus Christ and that they are in a saving covenant the Old Covenant which passed away according to book of Hebrews and all that type of stuff

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That we're not to evangelize Jews keep all of that in mind and then add to it the constant refrain of Roman Catholic Apologists about how there is one church.

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It's existed for 2 ,000 years and never changes its teachings We heard that over and over again the debate with Patrick Madrid just a few weeks ago.

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Oh, yes That was the Catholic Church back there same church. No, we don't change our teachings. Keep that all in mind

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Well, I read from the Council of Florence The Council of Florence which met between 1438 and 1445

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Denzinger 714 page 230 for those of you have this little red hardback book that I have and let's

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Hear what the Catholic Church used to say It firmly believes professes and proclaims that those not living within the

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Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics

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Cannot become participants in eternal life But will depart into everlasting fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels

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Matthew 25 41 unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock and that the unity of the

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Ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments the

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Church of benefit for salvation and Do fastings almsgiving and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward and that No one

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Whatever almsgiving giving he has practiced even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ can be saved unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the

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Catholic Church and Quote 17th

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Ecumenical Council of the Roman Catholic Church believes professes and proclaims and those of you who are

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Catholics know what that means that is the language that is used within Roman Catholicism to define a solemn dogma an infallible allegedly infallible

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Council of the allegedly infallible Church says what Not only pagans but also

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Jews and heretics and schismatics can not become participants in eternal life ah

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But the church has never changed. Oh They didn't really mean it the way you're taking it

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They didn't Can you show me something from their context that would say they did not understand it in that way?

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No you cannot and you know you cannot the church has never changed its teachings

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I Don't think so It's pretty obvious that the church in fact has

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Well you know we looked at passages, you know we kept mentioning

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Hebrews the whole book of Hebrews stands as a not so silent testimony to the

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Unbiblical nature of the USCCB statement, but I would like to point out also acts 1338

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Therefore let it be known to you brethren that through him Is through Christ forgiveness of sins have proclaimed you and through him everyone who believes is freed from all things from which you could

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Not be freed through the law of Moses Now what does that mean?

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How does a Jew receive forgiveness of sins? How did the Old Covenant provide forgiveness of sins

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There's no sacrifices in the temple today And even if there weren't does not the scripture say that the blood of goats and bulls cannot bring about forgiveness of sin

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How can a person who rejects Jesus Christ? rejects the cross of Calvary Have forgiveness of sins

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Therefore let it be known to you brethren that through him Not through the Old Covenant Forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you and through him

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Everyone who believes is freed from all things from which you could not be freed through the law of Moses Isn't that fairly clear?

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Isn't that pretty obvious? Seems so to me we got to realize folks.

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What lies behind this whole Liberal move and it's not just in Roman Catholicism It's not just in Roman Catholicism, I mean we're addressing

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Roman Catholicism because of the fact that we are a reformed ministry that works in evangelizing

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Roman Catholics and We deal with those issues very regularly and Here's another example of the truthfulness.

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So we've said all along about them the need and necessity of The need and necessity of Of the

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I'm sorry someone just completely derailed me at that point in time

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What I was trying to say I guess somewhere along the lines is we we recognize the necessity of the work of Christ in and amongst the

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Roman Catholic people and so We need to understand that liberalism is not limited to Roman Catholics and liberalism has as its foundational fundamental

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Concept Something other than the authority of the Word of God and As a result we can cite passages all day long liberals don't care

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The liberal perspective is informed by the attitude of the world as most Roman Catholics are as well that I've talked to anyways, they're not under the authority of Scripture that I'm sorry the

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Word of God and Therefore liberalism is even coming into evangelicalism in the concept of inclusivism and You'll see and it was even in the document this idea of well people making positive responses to God Does the

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Bible say men outside of Jesus Christ make positive responses to God? Of course not in no way shape or form

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But you see once you deny total depravity as Dave Hunt does and that's

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Norm Geisler does and as Arminians do Once you deny total depravity

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Then you can have men making positive responses. They the Arminian will not respond to this the way that every foreign person will

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In fact, I was just thinking 1st Corinthians 121 for sense in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to Know God God as well pleased the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe

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You see if you don't believe in total depravity, then why can't? The world through its wisdom comes to know its creator

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You see in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God God saves the foolishness of the message preached.

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He saves the preaching of the gospel Not through allegedly positive moves of unregenerate men

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This whole concept is completely foreign to the text of Scripture Well, I hope this has been of some interest to you some help to you in regards to This particular document.

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There are many people who are asking about it. It's a sort of a current event. I truly truly hope

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That Next week Lord willing we will be able to actually have you folks involved have calls again

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Have a live webcast but that's all in Lord's hands and I certainly hope to see that happen because it's much more difficult for me to do something like this and to have interaction and of course and Get to hear from you folks is a very important aspect of the program

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So that's the discussion we have for the dividing line this week shorter than normal. I realize but Lord willing we'll be back on our regular

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Schedule sometime in the not -too -distant future and hope to hear from you when we do so.