September 17, 2018 Show with Dr. Robert W. Carter on “Creation & the Authority of the Bible”

Creation, the Authority of Scripture, and the Program Introduction

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27, verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. Now here's our host, Chris Arnson.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth, who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this 17th day of September 2018.

I'm delighted to not only have a first-time guest today here on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, but I'm also delighted to have a returning co-host who's also been a guest himself. First I'd like to let you know that we have Dr. Robert W. Carter on the program for the first time.

He is a senior scientist and speaker for Creation Ministries International, also known as CMI USA in Atlanta, Georgia, and he is researching human genetics and other issues related to biblical creation.

Today he is addressing creation and the authority of the Bible, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. Robert W. Carter.

Well, thank you. It's a privilege to be here.

And we have returning as a co-host, someone who is no stranger to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience. He has also been a guest on a number of occasions, going way back to the old program broadcasting out of Long Island, New York, from WNYG and WGBB radio.

I'm speaking of Pastor Bruce Bennett, who is the pastor of Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island, New York, and he is my co-host today, and he's also the host of an upcoming conference that's being held this weekend at the Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island, New York, featuring our guest today, Dr. Robert W. Carter, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Bruce Bennett.

Oh, Chris, always a pleasure. Thanks for having me.

And before we go back to Dr. Carter, Pastor Bruce, why don't you tell our listeners something about Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island.

We're a... sent out of...

WOTChurch .com is the website. I just had to repeat that because you broke up a little bit there. I'm not sure why. But WOTChurch .com, and WOT stands for Word of Truth, and we'll be repeating that, God willing, a little later.

Now Dr. Carter, tell us something about Creation Ministries International. We have had at least one of your team members on the program before, all the way from Australia. We had Taz Walker on, actually he was on for two days in a row, in a discussion slash debate with an old earth creationist.

But tell us about Creation Ministries International.

Oh boy, you mentioned Australia. We are an international organization, countries, and probably about 30 speakers who are traveling the world every year speaking at different churches.

Wow. Well, and I know that one of those churches is Word of Truth Church, so I'm looking forward.

To that.

God willing, I will be there. I have another important, a lot less pleasant task to attend to on Long Island that weekend, this weekend, as a matter of fact. But hopefully I will be able to leave that early enough to be there at Word of Truth Church, planning on it and praying for that opportunity, and I would love to meet you in person.

Well, very often on Iron Trip and Zion Radio, most of the time when we have a first time guest, Dr. Carter, we have that guest give a summary of their salvation testimony. What kind of religious atmosphere, if any, you were raised in, and what were the circumstances that our Sovereign Lord providentially brought up in your life that drew you to Himself and eventually saved you?

Wow.

Well, I tell you, I was raised in a Christian home in Long Island.

Oh wow, I didn't know that. Oh wow, that's very close to where the debate, I mean, the conference is.

Yeah, I grew up in Hampton Bays, though. And...

You know how many salvation stories start with, there was this girl?

That's right, she's still a good friend of mine, too, and I thanked her for this. But after about three months of going there, that's what it all means, and boom! It's like I had no idea before.

Well, where were you in your life when you finally absolutely fell to your knees and said, Lord, I need a Savior, please save me, I am headed for hell, I need to be rescued? And then you put your total faith in the person and work of Jesus Christ for your salvation.

Well, I was 19 years old.

And so from there, you obviously started to become interested in science. I don't know if that was actually before you got saved, but tell us about the whole journey in your life where you became a scientist for Christian Ministries International.

Yeah, I've always been a bit of an engineering college, studying biology, but I wasn't a solution to people. I had no idea that I was going to be, and it took years. It took, in my, probably I was about 28 or 29 years old, or finally.

And how did you actually physically start working for Creation Ministries International? Sorry, folks, I've made a little error before. I said Christian Ministries International. I meant to say Creation.

But how did you get a hold of them, or how did they get a hold of you, and how did that partnership begin?

I moved back to Atlanta. All their faces, I knew all these people. There's Taz Walker on the list and a lot of other people that I knew. I said, oh, they have an office in Atlanta? How come I didn't know about that?

Well, they didn't. They had a PO box in Atlanta. They were setting up a new office in Atlanta, and I sent them an email, and it went to Australia, and I got a phone call at 9 o 'clock the next night, which is 8 o 'clock in their morning, and they wanted to talk to me for their new U .S. office.

Wow, praise God.

Unbelievable. It's just, yeah, total, completely...

So tell us specifically on what you are researching in regard to human genetics and other issues related to biblical creation over there at CMI.

Okay. My special... I don't do DNA extraction and DNA sequencing. As long as I have a computer... Humanity is, did we really come from Adam and Eve? Was there a thing called... And it's actually really amazing, because the evolutionary community has discovered Adam and Eve, Noah's Flood, and the Tower of...

The evolutionary community has discovered this. Are they remaining silent about their discovery?

Yes, and when they do run up against the obvious implications, they tend to muddle the terms a little bit. Like they had this Angel Eve, a random woman who lived to be the only woman who passed on her DNA to everyone else after.

But the alternate is, no, there really was only one woman.

Now, in summary form, how do you connect genetics to any kind of proof for these phenomenal history-making events that you listed, that are actually historical events from the Holy Scriptures? Like Noah's Ark, etc.

Yeah, that's hard, because in science there's nothing called proof. You can only build a case for something. And some cases are weak, and some are strong. So you can't... Because it's in all the people across the world.

You have about 3 million places where the DNA you got from your mother disagrees. So you have about one-third of the world's genetic diversity within just you. People, and you've got about 99 of the world's genetic...

Wow.

And that's amazing, because it shows Europeans are Europeans and Asians. Differently, we came from one population in one population area. If that happened, we would expect people across the world...

I just want to remind our listeners that if you'd like to join us on the air with your own question for Dr. Robert W. Carter, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

And please give us, as always, your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

And the only way I could conceive of a personal and private question being relative to what we're talking about is if perhaps you disagree with your own pastor. Perhaps your own pastor is a brother in Christ, but he is an old earth creationist.

Or perhaps you have a more liberal pastor or church that adheres to full-blown evolution and denies the Genesis account of the origins of man and the origins of everything, for that matter. Or perhaps you disagree with your spouse on these issues, or some other reason why the question would be personal and private.

Other than that, though, please at least give your first name, city and state, and country of residence. And Pastor Bruce Bennett, keep in mind that being a co-host on the phone, you're going to have to be counter-intuitive in regards to rudeness.

You're going to have to realize that you could barge in with a question. I can't see you waving your hand or facial expressions or body postures or anything like that. So whenever you feel there is an opening, if you have a question, just ask it.

Don't worry about being rude or anything like that. Of course, try not to just interrupt mid-sentence, but other than that. But Pastor Bruce, I know that you are an apologist yourself. You have personally been involved in a number of debates, I think, predominantly, if not exclusively, on Long Island.

You're a school teacher in a public school. Tell us about why specifically you orchestrated this conference that you're having.

I actually had a real ability to teach myself on the creation versus evolution area. Creation, to the head knowledge of God that I had, it was just as teachers. Apologetic taught me to teach it as fact, unmitigated fact.

Well, if you don't have a question of your own yet for Dr. Carter, we do have a listener question. Do you have a question, or should I move forward to a listener question? Bruce, I'm speaking.

I'm just wondering, Dr. Carter, if you could tell us how you came into the apologetics ministry. I was teaching at a big private school, maybe some doors. My ultimate goal, actually, was to be a small Christian college.

Do you want this full-ride PhD fellowship? I said, what?

Wow.

I've been working with these people for 12 or 13 years now.

Why the Old Testament Cannot Be Unhitched from Christianity

Yeah, praise God. We do have BB in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, who says, this question is actually for both your guest and your co-host. I would love to hear how both of you would have responded directly to Andy Stanley, who was challenging Christians to unhitch the Old Testament from Christianity.

Dr. Carter, why don't you start?

All right. Andy Stanley is even more popular. He has sadly come out to believe, and if you go to creation .com, you'll come up with a contention is that no, you can't. The history there is what everything in the New Testament is.

Jesus, or when the Apostles talks about Abraham, they have to be treating this person as if he really existed, and as if this person is really important in history, or being used to make a spiritual point, a very important theological point.

If that stuff is not real, then a huge portion of what we think about Christianity—.

And Pastor Bruce?

Jesus is actually called the son of God at the Old Covenant, and the essence of the revelation of who God—. It's very unfortunate what he's done. Foundation, if you will. If you negotiate one through six, you know, the creation, the fall, the flood, you really dispatch core to the very foundation of the gospel.

You know, we end up with all kinds of—.

Well, thank you, B .B., for the excellent question. Keep listening to Iron Sheriff and Zion Radio. We have C .J. in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York. And C .J. says, I'm a believer, and I'm even a young earth creationist, but I was just curious how you two would answer this question to either the evolutionist or the person who's indifferent and really doesn't care about the matter one way or another.

They may say that whether one believes in evolution or not doesn't really have any effect on the gospel and on what the important things in the New Covenant that are commanded of us. If we have a theory about evolution that is Darwinian, even if it's very wrong, it's really not going to affect our Christian life or our status before God.

How do you respond to people such as these?

It's death and rebellion against God at the very beginning. His death and suffering is answered. The man Jesus Christ came, and he died on the cross to pay the penalty, which is death and the penalty of sin.

Billions of years, a human being, he would have died. Any story of death being removed is explained. And Pastor Bruce, the question seemed to be for both of you again. To take away from the, and if you dispatch an era where there wasn't, and you just can't use the creation, or you can't, you just simply...

Now, a question for both of you, for myself. Christians, I'm sure that both of you know, having spoken with, no doubt, thousands of them, thousands of our brethren in Christ, who we truly are, who we truly are confident are saved.

Christians say at sometimes, say and believe the stupidest things. They believe sometimes very moronic things, things that like startle you when you hear them come out of their mouths. I'm assuming that you two would believe that there are truly regenerate, born-again Christians who, out of ignorance, believe in evolution in some way, shape, or form.

And that they're not damned because they believe in evolution. But at the same time, I think that God holds a greater accountability for those who are actually enthusiastic evangelists, for lack of a better term, for the case of evolution.

People who are trying to cast a cloud of suspicion over the Genesis account, over the inerrancy of Scripture, and so on. I consider those people in one category, just as I believe Paul did with the Judaizers.

He seemed to be very clear that he put the Judaizers, who had a false gospel, who were teaching a false gospel and deceiving others, in a far greater category of apostasy than he did with the average Christian in the Church of Galatia, because he even calls the Galatians brothers.

So, but going back to the evolution issue, don't you believe that there are going to be many Christians who are going to be in heaven who are very wrong on that issue?

You know, just last week we had a front... No. The requirements for the... We might, you know, nuance that a little bit, or maybe the requirements to be called a Christian is not a very long list, and the age of the earth is not.

When we're talking about the Bible, when we're talking about understanding why we're fallen, why we're in need of salvation, when we're looking at what was believed, you know, 1 ,800 years of Christian history and things like that, we realize that the account of creation is a very important theological proposition that underlies so much other things that we believe.

It's not something that's going to get you into heaven or keep you from heaven. That deal with...

Anything to add, Pastor Bruce?

Yes, again, another excellent response. You know, Jesus is Lord. Well, even a paramedic... Jesus's lordship as the creator. I would just simply challenge the person... You say he's Lord, but you realize because he's the creator...

Jews take usually a very... Right, that they don't even know is not right yet. That's happened to me many times. Reviewed by an anonymous reviewer, he said, who is this guy? He's talking like an evolutionist.

And I looked at the paper.

I said, wow, he's right.

I did this thing in my mind that I hadn't worked through yet, and it was, God save you, and put you on the conveyor belt and said, okay, I'll see you at the end, figure everything out. That maybe we weren't right people.

I know how long it took me. Even years later after I said, okay, yeah, there's not millions of years old in Jesus's creation. I even struggled falling backwards into the evolutionary position. I take a deep breath, say, no, it's not true, and then proceed.

It's not easy.

Amen. And just because something is not going to bar somebody from heaven, it is serious enough very often, like these issues that we're discussing, that it could morph into something and perpetually become something that does bar somebody from heaven as far as...

I mean, heresies seem to beget heresies, and they just multiply until you're eventually not even believing in the God of the scriptures. So that is not any kind of reassurance that there will be evolutionists in heaven should not be taken as a license or a liberty or a freedom to believe in these things and spread these things because they can have dangerous consequences.

But we are going to our first break right now. If anybody would like to join us on the air, if anybody else would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com. Please give us your first name, at least your city and state, and your country of residence. If you live outside the USA, don't go away. God willing, we'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

The Case for Creation, Adam and Eve, and Human Genetics

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Hi, Phil Johnson here. I'm executive director of John MacArthur's media ministry, Grace to You. And I'm also an occasional guest on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio. So I'm delighted that my friend, Chris Arnzen and I will be heading down to Atlanta for the G3 conference, where I'll be joining James White, Steve Lawson, Vodie Baucom, Mark Dever, Conrad Mbewe, Todd Friel, Josh Bice, and a host of other speakers to address the topic of biblical understanding of missions.

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Hi, Phil Johnson here. I'm executive director of John MacArthur's media ministry, Grace to You. And I'm also an occasional guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. So I'm delighted that from January 17th through the 19th, my friend Chris Arnzen and I will be heading down to Atlanta for the G3 Conference, where I'll be joining James White, Steve Lawson, Votie Baucom, Mark Dever, Conrad Mbewe, Todd Friel, Josh Bice, and a host of other speakers to address the topic of biblical understanding of missions.

Chris Arnzen and I hope to see you all at this very important conference. Make sure you stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron exhibitors booth to say hi to Chris. For more details, go to g3conference .com. That's g3conference .com.

See you there.

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So please use this opportunity to bless Mike and the folks at Solid Ground Christian Books with an order today at solid-ground-books .com. Solid-ground-books .com. Now we are back to our guest, Dr. Robert W. Carter of Creation Ministries International, CMI USA, and also our co-host today, Pastor Bruce Bennett of the Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island, who is the host of a conference this weekend hosted, I'm sorry, where the guest speaker is Dr. Robert W. Carter.

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Now we are back with our guest, Dr. Robert W. Carter and our co-host pastor, Bruce Bennett. If you would like to join us on the air with a question of your own in regard to creation and the authority of the Bible, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com. We have, let's see, we have Joey in Clifton, New Jersey, who says, Dr. Robert, I ask this question as a young earth creationist. I have heard arguments on two sides from the secular evolution community.

One side seems to favor common single ancestry of life and mankind because of what they perceive to be the extreme unlikelihood of evolution happening in multiple places independently. Yet others seem to have moved forward toward favoring the idea that evolution has occurred separately in different places and populations.

I believe some of this is genetics driven. Can you comment on where that trend stands and why and where the mainstream lies? And what do you think is driving them?

That's a long question.

It's a series of questions, actually.

Yeah, I'm a little confused about the terminology.

Well, I assume what he is saying is that instead of one a couple of apes who have mated or primates that were not human having a human offspring, that this was happening all over the world sporadically.

Okay, okay. So this is the out-of-Africa theory versus the multi if that's what's all from the ape-like population and Homo sapiens, you know, started about 200 ,000 years ago in Africa. A lot of new arguments from the evolutionary community say, no, that's not true.

We are a much more pan-myctic population around the world and we evolved from Homo erectus over time as a large population, not a small population. A piece in, I think it was Greece, that were modern human teeth that predate this.

We have tools and artifacts and a skull in Israel in an evolutionary dating frame that predates, supposedly, most people have been. But now, really, before that, modern humans must have

Okay, Joey, thank you. And if I or Dr. Carter misunderstood your question, you can feel free to send a follow-up email that further clarifies what you meant. I have a feeling we understood you correctly.

And I don't know if you answered this. I don't think you did. He said, can you comment on where that trend, meaning the genetics-driven trend where there were multiple cases of primates, non-human primates, giving birth to humans globally, where that trend stands and why and where why and where the mainstream lies?

I mean, is that a mainstream view or is it more the one parent of apes view?

Well, the change happening right now in evolutionary science argument against the biblical Adam and Eve is actually not the arguments are not coming from genetics so much as they're coming from archaeology.

And the archaeologists and the geneticists for many years, because when genetics comes up, it's challenging the artifacts. It's like, you can say whatever you want about evolution, but the DNA here is not saying that.

My biblical answer to that is that, yeah, we did actually come from a single population, but that population wasn't in Africa. It was in the Middle East around. And modern humans today do not necessarily look like our ancient forebears.

The oldest people in the fossil record, our heads didn't really have much of a forehead and they didn't have much of a chin either. And they were definitely their bones are thicker and they're bigger and stronger.

You realize

So basically what you're saying is that we have to be careful with our terminology, I'm assuming, that we are not saying as young Earth creationists that humans did not evolve into different physical descriptions of humans.

We're just saying that they didn't evolve from a different species or a different animal life form.

Yeah, yeah. I'm going to change a genetic landscape. Yeah, it's not really controversial, but it's not evolution either.

Well, I mean, we use the term evolve in different ways in the English language. That doesn't have to involve Darwinian concepts. But it's interesting that even I live in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. It's a very historic area.

Some of the homes and buildings date back to the 1700s and earlier. And sometimes when you see these buildings that go back that far to the 1700s, the doorways are extremely small. And it's interesting that I'm assuming that, you know, people typically were just shorter and narrower and thinner than they are today as far as a typical or average person.

And that's just a couple of hundred years.

Yeah, but that's also almost all nutrition.

Huh, really?

In the late 1700s, people were noticing how because of nutrition, they had a lot of

Even taller than the Norwegians and Scandinavians?

Yeah, yeah. But even the Norwegians and Scandinavians are a hundred years. And that's not genetics. It's nutrition. We are better fed than we used to be.

Therefore

And that much change in pansies or the common

Well, we have to go to our midway break now. The midway break, as many of you know, is a longer than normal break. That is because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, that airs this program twice a day in a rerun format and morning drive and also 8 to 10 p .m. at night.

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