Deceptive & Lying Mormons | Collision w/Jeff Durbin

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What's up, everybody? Welcome to another episode of Collision. This one's gonna be exciting because we're gonna be talking about the new facelift of Mormonism and lying, deceiving

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Mormons. Here we go. All right, so if you have been watching us for some time, you know that a big part of our ministry is to engage with a community that we deeply love and care for, and that is our

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Mormon friends and family, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints, which has undergone quite a facelift in this last generation.

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It's happened many times in their history, but the facelift recently, you know they've gone from mormon .org

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to the Come Unto Christ. The new website is, of course, the churchofjesuschrist .org,

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and they've tried at times to get away from the title Mormon. Made a lot of old school Mormons kind of upset, and so it's a facelift.

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It's a marketing scheme. Much is being done today to sort of get away from a lot of the history and the classic teachings of the

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Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints, from the transformation occurring in terms of blacks being able to hold the priesthood, blacks being cursed with black skin, a terrible, ugly, evil doctrine, and of course the issue of polygamy.

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Early on in Mormonism, it was taught by Mormon prophets and apostles that you had to become a polygamist to become a god or goddess of your own planet one day.

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The prophet Brigham Young taught that if you denied polygamy, he promised that you would be damned, and he taught that they would essentially not even be allowed into the union without denying the practice of polygamy, and it would never happen, and of course it ultimately did.

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And so a lot of transformations have happened in Mormon history, but what is so fascinating is to view the modern

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Mormon or the modern Mormon apologist in light of the actual teachings of the

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Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints and what Mormon prophets and apostles have taught. And so we're gonna get into this today by actually looking at a recent video.

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This is just a clip, a video of Midnight Mormons. It's Ward Radio, and the title of the video is interesting.

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It actually says, debunking the evangelical lie that, quote,

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Mormons get their own planet. And it says, of course, there's a tag on here featuring fake pastor

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Mike Winger. Now, we know Mike Winger. He's a faithful pastor, and they are calling him a fake pastor here, but be that as it may, debunking, listen to this, the evangelical lie that Mormons get their own planet.

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And what's interesting here is that this is coming from Latter -day Saints. This is coming from Mormons, titling the video that it's an evangelical lie that Mormons get their own planet.

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Now, I know a lot of old -school Mormons that would probably be looking at this with a squinty eye going, what do you mean it's a lie that we get our own planets?

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But here we go. This is gonna be, I think, a very informative collision for you today, so just brace yourselves.

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Here is the clip. And when you have enough babies made in heaven, you create, you take a planet, form a planet, and then you send your babies down to live human lives and continue the same cycle that's going on.

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Okay, we're paused, we're paused. Hey, congratulations, Mike Ringer, you watched the Godmakers animation cartoon.

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He seems to know a lot more about exaltation than we do. Like, I don't know, like, what scriptures are you reading,

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Mike? I'm not, I'm just here in Doctrine and Covenants 76, and it says, the people who go to the celestial kingdom receive the testimony of Jesus, believed on his name, that by keeping the commandments, they'd be washed and clean, they overcame by faith, and wherefore, as it is written, they are gods even the sons of God.

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I'm not seeing the Kolob or the infinite babies or the populating a planet or any of that.

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Does he think we talk about this all, do you think that's like half of Come Follow Me? Like, they think that we like really believe this, that we talk about this all the time.

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Also, wouldn't we be a more sexy, less frumpy people if we did believe in eternal sex like that? Like, don't you think, come on!

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So, obviously the last comments there made by Kwaku are meant to be silly and cute, and if you actually know the historic teachings of the

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Mormon prophets and apostles, again, you might be kind of surprised that they're saying these things. Now, at least some of these guys are

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BYU students, and the gentleman that last spoke there named Kwaku has a long history, unfortunately, it's a public history of mischaracterization, not understanding historic

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Christian doctrine, speaking out publicly on issues that he clearly did not understand, having to do damage control afterwards and try to change what he says.

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And so he has kind of a history of saying things that he has to later go on to correct.

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But in this case, it's interesting because what's being claimed here in this video with the new modern

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Mormon facelift is that it's a lie, an evangelical lie told about Mormons that, quote,

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Mormons get their own planet. Now, I wanna zero in on something really important here as we get into the quotes, and I'm gonna give you a lot of quotes today in the hopes that this will challenge the

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Latter -day Saint who watches this to really begin to investigate the contradictions between Mormon prophets and, of course, the scriptures, but also

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Mormon prophets and the modern Mormon facelift with men like Kwaku and Luke and the others in this video.

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But it is interesting because Kwaku, just a couple of years ago, just a few years ago, before the attempt at this facelift, was part of a show called

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Saints Unscripted. And in this video, the question's being answered, do Mormons believe they can become gods?

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Just the water is just gonna run out. I gotta ask a question. We get planets? You get your own planet? Yeah. Because if so, there's a

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Google Doc I signed to get Jupiter, and I want Jupiter. Do you get a planet? I think, well,

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I mean, it's not that we get a planet, but like we're saying, we believe we can become gods and we can create.

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We believe that God created the universe. Yes. Logically, if we believe that we're going to be like God in every shape, way, and form.

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We will be able to create. Create. We have no idea. Yeah. I just don't want to touch the idea of, you know, if you got four planets, you're a better god than I am because I only got three planets.

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Well, it's funny because actually, I got a planet. Does your planet have rings? Oh, man, that's like a really nice planet. Well, I must be single because we don't have rings.

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Apparently, all the people who ask about planets are from Brooklyn, so. So, just a matter of years ago,

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Kwaku, the guy from the end of the first video, really didn't have any problem answering the question about do

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Mormons believe they can become gods? And in this scenario, they all want to say, well, you know, it's not that we get our own planet, but we're like God and we can create our own planets.

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You know, is it three planets, four planets, one planet? You know, we don't really know how this works out. But the point is, is that it's known, accepted, and understood teaching of the

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Latter -day Saints, it has been historically, that the goal of exaltation is through exaltation to become a god and goddess of your own planet one day and populating that planet like the god of this

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Earth did. And that's the connection point they're making there, is that we're gonna be like our Heavenly Father in every way. Now, if you're a

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Christian now and you know very little about Mormonism, it'd be important to start this discussion laying down a foundation as to what separates

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Mormonism from biblical Christianity, what separates the teachings of the prophets of Mormonism from the teachings of Holy Scripture.

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And to do that, we'll start with this collision, we'll start with just a foundational issue, and that is what

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Mormons teach about God. There is a very famous discourse from the first president and prophet of the

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Mormon Church, Joseph Smith Jr. It's known as the King Follett Discourse. And just making sure that everyone understands what is fundamental and foundational to the

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Mormon belief about God, we need to get into this text. So this is from the King Follett Discourse, and again, this collision is gonna be quote heavy, and there's a reason for that.

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I really want to make sure that as the Christian Church, we are ready and prepared to engage with the

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Latter -day Saints and to give them the truth and to show the kind of contradictions, again, that exist between Mormon teaching and of course what the

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Bible teaches and what classic Mormon teaching is versus the modern

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Mormon attempt at a facelift. So this is from the King Follett Discourse. This is Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, volume six, page three, 1844.

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Joseph Smith says this. He says, I will prove that the world is wrong by showing what God is. I'm gonna inquire after God, for I want you all to know him, to be familiar with him.

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You will then know that I am his servant, for I speak as one having authority. So that's very important here.

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Joseph Smith's not just giving his own personal opinion. He says before this, this is given to him by the Holy Spirit.

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He's speaking as one who has authority. This is not just his opinion. He's speaking as revelation.

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He says this, I will go back to the beginning before the world was to show what kind of being

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God is. He says, God himself was once as we are now and is an exalted man and sits enthroned in yonder heavens.

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That is the great secret. I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form, like yourselves in all the form, like yourselves in all the person image and very form of a man.

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It is necessary that we should understand the character and being of God and how he came to be so.

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For I'm gonna tell you how God came to be God. We've imagined and suppose that God was

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God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and we'll take away and do away the veil so that you may see.

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And he says later, here that is eternal life to know the only wise and true God and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves and to be kings and priests to God the same as all gods have done before you.

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And so you can go on here in this discourse about in the beginning, the head of the gods called a council of gods and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and to people it.

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So that's just some snippets from original source material from general discourses that is from the

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King Follett discourse, the most well -known discourse of Joseph Smith Jr.

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Now, as you're getting into this discussion and you're wondering what does all this mean?

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It means that Mormonism begins with a lie in history and that is that God has not been

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God for all eternity contrary to what the scriptures teach. Psalm 90 verse two as an example from eternity into eternity, you are

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God. God is the same yesterday, today and forever. That's very different from the Mormon God who is learning and growing and changing throughout his cycle, his life cycle.

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And of course, when you look at what the prophets taught about God and compare and contrast that to the scriptures, you have a very different conception of God.

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In scripture, you have the clear statements all throughout scripture that there is only one true and living

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God. You have verses Deuteronomy 4, 35 and 39. He is

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God alone in the heavens above and on the earth below, there is no other. You have, of course, the well -known text,

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Isaiah 43, 10. Before me, there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

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Isaiah 44, six, I am the first and I am the last. Besides me, there is no God.

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God's saying in Isaiah 44, eight, he says, is there a God besides me? Indeed, there is no other God, I know not one.

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And so in the scriptures, you have the clear monotheistic belief that there is only one true and living

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God. And of course, as we teach through the scriptures, the Father is called God, the Son is called

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God, the Holy Spirit is called God. And yet there are three distinct persons who share the divine essence or nature of God.

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One God by nature, eternal, no beginning and no end, the first and the last, none before, none after.

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Now that's a compare and contrast between Joseph Smith's teachings about God and what the

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Holy Scriptures have always taught about God and God's nature. Now, what's interesting here in terms of the modern

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Mormon facelift is that back in my day, and I feel so old saying that,

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Mormons were ready and available to discuss this topic of becoming gods.

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It was something they were proud of. It was something that they said, yes, that's what we teach. We're gonna become gods through exaltation, through faithfulness and obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel, through temple ceremonies and all the things that we do, tithing, if we're worthy

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Mormons, we go to the celestial kingdom where we go through exaltation and we become gods and goddesses of our own planets one day, populating them like the

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God of this earth did. They believed what this young man taught, and that's that we are gonna be like our

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Heavenly Father and that we will go through the same thing that he did. And now you can see that Kwaku believed this just a matter of years ago.

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They're discussing it on a show. But now we have a video that's actually titled, debunking the evangelical lie, quote, that Mormons get their own planets and even mocking the idea of like endless celestial sex.

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But we need to ask the question, what do the Mormon prophets teach? Because before the modern

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Mormon facelift and attempt at pure deception, and this is pure deception, you see that the

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Mormon prophets had no problems discussing what they believed about exaltation, getting your own planet and populating it.

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This is from the 12th president and prophet of Mormonism, Spencer Kimball.

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And this is from 22nd of October, 1976. It was an address delivered at the

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University of Utah Institute of Religion. And here's the quote from Spencer Kimball, again, Mormon prophet and president.

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Each one of you has it within the realm of his possibility to develop a kingdom over which you will preside as its king and God.

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You will need to develop yourself and grow in ability and power and worthiness to govern such a world with all its people.

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Now, this particular quote from Spencer Kimball, again, president and prophet of the

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Mormon church, is in a number of other places as well, including chapter four of teaching children from four to 11 years.

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It's a parent's guide. It's in Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Seminary. Teacher got resource material introduction.

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And it's in the Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual, chapter 10. And here's another quote from the teachings of Spencer W.

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Kimball. And this is from 1982, page 386. Here's the quote. Quote, we educate ourselves in the secular field and in the spiritual field so that we may one day create worlds, people, and govern them.

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So there's not very long ago, Spencer Kimball, prophet of the Mormon church, having no problem teaching and admitting that, yes, that's the goal.

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Mormons get their own planet one day. That's the goal of exaltation. These new facelift

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Mormons are attempting to steer away from that, to say, like, we really don't know. Like, we talk about this all the time.

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It's silly to even suggest such a thing. But we see that the Mormon prophets didn't have any problems with it at all.

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Here's another one. This is from Spencer Kimball. The privilege of holding the priesthood ensign conference edition,

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November 1975, page 80. This is quoted in the Doctrine and Covenants Institute study manual.

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Quote, brethren, 225 ,000 of you are here tonight. I suppose 225 ,000 of you may become gods.

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There seems to be plenty of space out there in the universe and the Lord has proved that he knows how to do it.

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I think he could make, or probably have us help make, worlds for all of us.

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For every one of us, 225 ,000. Now, the 10th president and prophet of the

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Mormon church, Joseph Fielding Smith, says this. That great blessing of celestial glory could never have come to us without a period of time in mortality, and so we came here in this mortal world.

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We are in school, the mortal school, to gain the experiences, the training, the joys, and the sufferings that we partake of, that we might be educated in all these things and be prepared if we are faithful and true to the commandments of the

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Lord, to become sons and daughters of God, joint heirs with Christ, and in his presence go on to a fullness and a continuation of the seeds forever, and perhaps through our faithfulness to have the opportunity of building worlds and peopling them.

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That's Joseph Fielding Smith, Adam's role in bringing us mortality, General Conference, October 1976.

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Another, the Father has promised us that through our faithfulness, we shall be blessed with the fullness of his kingdom.

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In other words, we will have the privilege of becoming like him. To become like him, we must have all the powers of godhood.

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Thus, a man and his wife, when glorified, will have spirit children who eventually will go on an earth like this one we are on and pass through the same kind of experience as being subject to mortal conditions, and if faithful, then they will also receive the fullness of exaltation and partake of the same blessings.

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There is no end to this development. It will go on forever. We will become gods and have jurisdiction over worlds, and these worlds will be peopled by our own offspring.

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Joseph Fielding Smith, prophet of the Mormon church, Doctrines of Salvation, 2 and 48.

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It's quoted in Achieving a Celestial Marriage student manual in 1976. So it is interesting.

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If you look at the history of Mormonism and you look at classic Mormon teaching and theology, Mormon prophets and apostles really had no problems whatsoever describing what the goal of exaltation was.

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Hey, what's up, guys? This is Pastor Jeff Durbin. Thank you for watching Collision. We wanted to provide a solid resource to help you to respond to anything coming into collision with the

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Christian worldview. There's more as a response to this video and others at Apologia's All Access at apologiastudios .com.

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When you partner with Apologia Studios, you make all of our content possible, and we give you all kinds of amazing other content to help equip you and to train you and your friends and families in the

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