How Does the Law Apply to New Testament Believers?

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I'd like to read you a quote and also introduce to you a good book that you might want to get for yourself to do some further reading on this debate as far as the intermural aspect.

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And the name of the book is The Five Views of the Law, and it's part of a CounterPoint series that you can order at just about any

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Christian bookstore, or you can get it online at CBD, christianbooks .com. You can order this book.

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And what it does is it presents five different views of how Christians view the law. And let me just start out with asking a question.

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And Benny, if you want to make a comment before I move on, go right ahead. But the question that I want to ask those of you that are listening today is simply this.

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Is the law of God binding upon the New Testament believer? Is the law of God in any sense whatsoever still binding upon the believer?

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And if it is binding upon the believer, in what sense is it binding? And Mike, you and I were speaking before the show how significant it is in today's society that there is this battle going on by the secularists to remove the

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Ten Commandments from schools, public places, saying there is no place for the Ten Commandments of God.

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Yet the Christian throughout this country is contending for the Ten Commandments and is doing everything possible to make sure that the

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Ten Commandments of God, which were given to Mount Sinai to Moses, are again placed in the right place to be a reminder of the fact that there is a

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God. However, when you look at the Christian in the church, the local Christian church, you find that when we speak about the law of God and its place and its importance, its significance, its role, there are many churches that are very hesitant, if not resistant to speaking about or discussing or teaching about the

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Ten Commandments or the law of God and resting on the argument that we are under grace, we are no longer under law, so therefore we should no longer be discussing these things or there is no place for it and so on and so forth.

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And I think today would be a great opportunity for us, Mike, to address those issues, those questions, and to remind ourselves of what the

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Apostles and the Scriptures teach us with regard to its role. Absolutely, and I want to remind you, the question that we're asking and the question that we want to address is, is the law of God in any sense whatsoever binding upon the

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New Testament Christian, and if it is binding, in what sense is it binding? But let me ask a further question, and again,

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Benny, you might want to comment on this one. What do you think of, those of you who are listening to us today, what do you think of when

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I simply mention law of God? What comes to your mind? Is the law of God synonymous, in your thinking, with the law of Moses, the law that was revealed on Sinai in the desert?

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Is the law of God synonymous with that? Is there any difference between the law of God and the law of Moses?

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Is the law of God synonymous with the law of Christ? Paul in Corinthians, and I'm paraphrasing here, but Paul says that to those who are without law,

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I become as one without the law, and yet not really being without the law, because I am under the law of Christ.

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Does the summation of the law that we find in Matthew 22, Christ says that to love the

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Lord your God with all your heart, soul, strength, and mind, and the second greatest commandment to love your neighbor as yourself,

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Christ says that fulfills the law in the prophets. The apostle Paul teaches the same thing in Romans 13.

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He quotes about four of the Ten Commandments, and then he says, and this is fulfilled in love, if we love one another.

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So is the law of God synonymous with the law of Christ, or, and what we're actually leading up to this afternoon, is the law of God synonymous with the

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Ten Commandments? What do you think about that, Benny? That's a good question, because if we don't clarify ourselves, especially in our society, sometimes we can be misunderstood, even the scriptures can be misunderstood.

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The whole idea of speaking about the law of God being binding on the believer right away places images of our salvation, and right away we get the no, by no means, because right away we think of salvation, we think of justification, that we are justified by faith, we're justified by grace through faith, not by works of the law.

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You find where Paul speaks about we're no longer under the law, and there are these little catch verses, many of which are taken out of the context, but would lead many of us to be resistant to entertaining at all the law's role.

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And what ends up happening, Mike, is we find ourselves becoming antinomian against the law of any sort, any rules or regulations, and it leads even to a conduct of a lack of holiness in our lives, because we say we're under grace, we have this freedom, this liberty, hence there are no boundaries, etc.,

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etc., and that's one extreme. The other extreme is the legalistic one you spoke of earlier, which you'll be talking about in a little bit.

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Correct. I wanted to read a quote real fast. This is a quote from an author, Wayne Strickland, and he took one of the views in the book that I mentioned earlier, he took the dispensational view of the law of God, and let me read what he said, because he brings up three points, the first of which we're going to talk about for a while, concerning the law -gospel relationship, and he writes this, he says,

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The resolution of the law -gospel debate is no simple exercise, but neither is it a trivial issue.

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Among the theological issues raised by Paul, this one has perpetually been regarded as one of great significance.

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Theologically, the issue's importance is threefold. First, one's view of the relationship between law and gospel may influence the understanding of the cardinal doctrine of justification by faith.

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Second, the understanding of the relationship may have a decided impact on sanctification.

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Does the law have any role in the contemporary believer's lifestyle? And finally, third, on a broader and all -encompassing level, the issue has great significance for one's theological system.

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The differing solutions to the law -gospel debate result in diverse theological systems.

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And what I want to do right now for the purposes of this afternoon is I would like to narrow down our discussion and tell you what

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I, your host for today's program, what I mean by law of God. And when I refer to the law of God throughout this afternoon, unless I specifically qualify what

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I'm saying or add to what I'm saying, I'm specifically speaking of what Benny mentioned earlier, the

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Ten Commandments. The Ten Commandments. Historically, and I'm going to read to you a section from the 1689

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Baptist Confession of Faith, historically the Reformers, some of the great old men of God, have understood the law that was revealed to Moses on Sinai.

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And for those of you that are listening out there, if you have your Bibles handy, you can find the Ten Commandments and the revelation of the law in Exodus chapter 20.

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Exodus chapter 20, and you can find a restatement, what I consider to be a homiletical restatement of the law in Deuteronomy chapter 5.

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And you might think through the name of Deuteronomy, in Greek it comes from the Greek septuagint, and it's a combination of deuteros, second, and namos, law.

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Literally it carries the idea of second law. And I think it's important to understand that because some of the more liberal theologians have noticed some differences in the way

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Moses writes out the law in Deuteronomy versus the way Moses writes out the law in Exodus, and all of a sudden they think they have found contradictions in the

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Word of God, when in fact there really are no contradictions. Moses is expanding, Moses is teaching through,

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Moses is preaching through the law of God, and hence the name Deuteronomy, second law.

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But let me read to you a section from the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith, and this is chapters 19, verses 3 through 4, and historically this has been how the law of God, and again specifically the

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Ten Commandments, this is why I've come to the conclusion, this is why I would like to narrow down our debate and specifically focus in on the

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Ten Commandments. So let me restate my question. Are the Ten Commandments binding upon the life of a

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New Testament believer? Are the Ten Commandments binding upon New Covenant believers?

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The 1689 Confession, chapter 19, section 3, reads like this. Besides this law, making reference to the

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Ten Commandments, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship prefiguring

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Christ, His graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits, and partly holding forth diverse instructions of moral duties, all which ceremonial laws being appointed only to the time of Reformation are by Jesus Christ the

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Messiah and only law giver, who was furnished with power from the Father for that end, abrogated and taken away.

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To them also He gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the state of that people, not obliging any now by virtue of that institution, their general equity only being of moral use.

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So historically, let me just recap that, historically the Reformers and the old men of God viewed the law of Moses as given at Sinai, and we can take this up and look at it in more detail here in a minute, but historically they viewed it as consisting of three parts.

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The moral law, which is synonymous with the Ten Commandments, which we want to take a close look at this afternoon, the moral law, the ceremonial law, which

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I know that Benny and myself and Rich would agree with this, wholeheartedly would agree that Christ has fulfilled the ceremonial law.

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In fact, that's what the book of Hebrews is all about, the fact that Christ has fulfilled the ceremonial law and we no longer have to continually come to God with sacrifice after sacrifice after sacrifice, but with the one great high priest after the order of Melchizedek, with his one great atoning, propitiatory sacrifice, our consciences can be cleansed and we can approach the throne of God with bold access.

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So you have the moral law, you have the ceremonial law, and then you have what theologians have typically referred to as the judicial law.

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And these were the laws that specifically applied to the society of the day, the people of Israel of the day, and they fit the culture of the day.

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And I think it's important to understand that the statement that they're general equity only being of moral use, what's meant by that is the civil laws were basically a reflection of the

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Ten Commandments. They basically took the principles found in the Ten Commandments, and God in his grace and in his guidance and in his wisdom as a teacher, he took the principles inherent in the

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Ten Commandments and he broke them down and he applied them to specific cultural elements that were current amongst the people of Israel, and he applied the

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Ten Commandments to their everyday situations. But again, they simply reflect the Ten Commandments, and that's why the reformers of old understood that there was a principle within the civil law, a principle that was tied back to one of the

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Ten Commandments, and in that sense, even the civil laws, we could learn, we could apply and make use of them.

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But did you have a comment? Did you? No, well, so what you're saying, Mike, is that the

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Ten Commandments are binding, you're speaking specifically of the distinction of the moral law of God, the believers as they were upon the old covenant, the believers for the fall, and then what reasons would you give that?

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Or are you at that point here where we can look at the reasons why that those Ten Commandments are still binding?

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Right, and I'm going to get to those reasons, but before we get to the reasons, I think it might help our listeners if I were to define what

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I mean by binding. Because the one thing that I want to make very clear, and let me refresh your memory from the quotation from Strickland, he said that theologically the issue's importance is threefold.

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But first, one's view of the relationship between law and gospel may influence the understanding of the cardinal doctrine of justification.

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And first and foremost, when I refer to the Ten Commandments as binding, I need to be clearly understood that I do not imply in any sense whatsoever that the

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Ten Commandments somehow give us standing before God. Prior to salvation, after salvation, the

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Ten Commandments do not in any way affect, assist, coincide with our justification before God.

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Well, that is entirely by grace through faith. Entirely by grace through faith. The Ten Commandments should drive us to the need of a

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Savior, but they in no way affect our salvation before God. Rich, did you have a comment?

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Yeah, Mike. And the thing is that I think we need to be clear is that with Alpha and Omega Ministries, a lot of what we do is preach the fact that it is by God's grace that we stand before Him at all.

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And I just think about the fact that I was in the print shop this week printing up our track that says, Grace plus Works is

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Dead, being meaningless. And so the one thing I definitely want our listeners to be sure about is that we are not broaching off onto a legalistic path here.

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But as you've been talking about, it's vitally important that a lot of believers out there don't understand what role the law plays in our lives, the

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Ten Commandments. What role does it play? Where do we get to pick and choose what we're going to follow? So much of today's churches have totally abrogated the idea of following the

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Ten Commandments or following a rule of thumb, a set of rules at all.

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What is God's standard, and are we bound by it? Or are we out there basically having total liberty, we can get into licentiousness and all this other stuff?

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So there's a place in which we need to focus that the life of the believer is to be pointed.

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Absolutely. You know, it's interesting when contrasting God's gracious activity under the old covenant system.

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Many theologians will look at the Law of Moses and that whole system there, and they'll refer to it as a legal covenant, and they'll refer to the

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New Covenant. In other words, they'll refer to the Old Covenant, the Old Testament, as more of a legal covenant with rules and regulations, and then they'll refer to the

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New Covenant as a covenant of grace. And we don't have those rules and regulations. But let me read you a passage from 1

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John, and then I know, Benny, you have something you wanted to read. But 1 John chapter 2, and you might want to mark this well in your

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Bibles. 1 John chapter 2, the third verse, the Apostle John writes, "...by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments."

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The one who says, I have come to know him, and does not keep his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

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Those are the words from the Apostle that Jesus loved. But if we are Christians, if we stand united to God through the atoning sacrifice of Christ, that doesn't mean, as Rich said, that we can live a life of licentiousness, that we can continue to live in sin.

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There are still standards of conduct, and that's what we're talking about today.

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We're not talking about how one becomes justified. That, again, as we've said, is by grace through faith alone.

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That is a work of God. That is the Father electing in eternity past. That is the

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Son dying on the cross, paying the price for our sins. And that is the

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Holy Spirit changing our hearts and applying these things to our lives, giving us the gift of repentance and faith, prodding us to exercise those, and then we enjoy the benefits of Christ's obedience.

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That is justification by faith. And once we have been justified, there are some things that happen to us.

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We are then given an ability to act and behave differently. But Benny, you had something you wanted to read, so why don't you do that?

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Well, just to carry forth what you were sharing, Mike, John the Apostle, John goes on, even in chapter 5, speaking about whoever believes that Jesus is the

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Christ is born of God and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of him. By this we know that we love the children of God when we love

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God and observe his commandments for this is the love of God that we keep his commandments and his commandments are not burdensome.

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Again, this is not for salvation, but for those who have received the salvation, who have received a new heart by God.

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We love God's commandments. We're like the psalmist who says, Oh, I love thy law. It is my meditation all the day.

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Thy commandments make me wiser than my enemies. He goes on to talk about the commandments and ordinances of God on and on in Psalm 119.

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And our Lord himself states in John chapter 14, verse 21, that he who has my commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves me and is he who loves me shall be loved by my father and I will love him and will disclose myself to him.

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If anybody loves me, he will keep my word and my father will love him and we will come to him and make our abode with him.

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The emphasis upon the commandments of God. However, Mike, what I was noticing was a document that I was reading a while back, which is synonymous or typical of a lot of the responses from the

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Christian church today, which states that though the believer is no longer bound by the

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Mosaic law itself, he or she is bound by the law of Christ, which is also called the law of liberty. As part of the new covenant is a standard written on the heart by the dwelling spirit also empowers a believer from a motive for a love for Christ.

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Though the believer is no longer bound to the Old Testament law, there is still application of the Old Testament by means of seeking the character of God and how it's reflected in contemporary application to the believer in light of complete revelation.

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In essence, what it's saying is there's a distinction between the law of Christ and the law, the

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Mosaic law, and we're no longer bound by the Mosaic law, which we're speaking of today. But would we not submit,

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Mike, that the law of Christ would be, would not the law of Christ be the Ten Commandments?

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Would not that include the Ten Commandments? Would not the Ten Commandments be in the heart of Christ, in the heart of those who love

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Christ? Absolutely. I think if we take into consideration the nature of God being triune, one being, one in being, three in persons, and we understand the implications of the triunity of God, the fact that these three persons share a will.

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They're not in conflict. It's not like they sit down, you know, like we sometimes do and hammer out doctrine or hammer out what we're going to do for, you know, for the

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Sunday school class this weekend or something like that. The three persons of the triune God are in complete agreement with one another.

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And it just, it doesn't make sense to me, just from the get -go, that the law of God and the law of Christ could somehow be different.

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I don't think it stands up biblically. I don't think it stands up common sense. I don't think it stands up if you understand the doctrine of the

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Trinity. I wanted to remind our listeners out there, because we're going to be getting ready to take some phone calls here our second half hour, the number here if you're in town locally is 602 -274 -1360.

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Again that's area code 602 -274 -1360. Or if you're out of the area and you're listening, it's 1 -888 -550 -1360.

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Again that's 1 -888 -550 -1360. And for those of you that are out of state and you're listening and you're staying tuned via the

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Internet, I forgot to mention earlier that we are not monitoring the chat room during this program today.

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So we're not going to be monitoring the chat room, but you can call by the 1 -888 number. But I wanted to get back real quickly to something that we had brought up before we diverged a little bit, and that is what do

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I mean by binding? What do I mean that the Ten Commandments are binding upon the New Testament believer?

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And let me give you, that are listening out there, let me give you three ideas of what I mean by the

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Ten Commandments are binding in and of themselves. First of all, the Ten Commandments are binding in the sense that they are to be obeyed.

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I already read to you a passage in 1 John 2, and it would be worth reading 1 John 2, verses 1 -6.

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The Ten Commandments are binding in the sense that they are to be obeyed. They reflect the character of God.

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We have been created in the image of God, and we are to reflect that image and that character of God.

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Hence, they are to be obeyed. Secondly, the Ten Commandments are binding in the sense that we will answer for disobeying these commandments.

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Christians will stand before the judgment seat of Christ, and when you read about that passage in 1

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Corinthians, you will find out that we will answer for both our good works and our bad works.

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Christians will be judged. Christians will pass through a kind of judgment, not for salvation, not that we can stand before Christ being clothed in Christ, being redeemed by Christ, and then somehow lose our salvation, but there will be rewards in heaven.

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There will be gifts in heaven, and certainly there's a sense in which we throw all those back at the crown, and we throw those crowns back at the feet of Jesus, but nonetheless, we will stand before God, and we will be judged for that.

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Did you want to read a passage real quickly? No, I'm looking at one of the verses that we cite in 2 Corinthians 5 .10, which tells us that we will all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

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And I kept asking myself, and I think you challenged me with this a year or so ago, Mike, about how is it we will determine what's right and wrong?

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I mean, put the Ten Commandments, put them aside. How will you know what's right and wrong? Do we just kind of go by our feelings and say, well,

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I feel this is good, and this other believer here says, well, I feel this is good, and let's base this upon our fuzzy feeling of love for God.

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And we think love is some kind of emotion, and so now we, the subjective determination of what's right and wrong amongst the

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Christian church, which is really happening today, rather than the objective law of God, the commandments Christ refers to time and time again, which is a measure of our love for him.

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And as you challenged me with that, and I went back and looked at what Scripture said, I just could not but help but surrender to the fact that the

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Ten Commandments are absolutely important, vital today for us as believers, as you've been pointing out.

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But yeah, they're to be obeyed. We're going to be answered to them. What's the third one, Mike? Well, the third one is that they, it's kind of twofold.

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The Ten Commandments still identify sin in the life of the believer. They point out sin. They point out when we are doing things that are not pleasing to our

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Heavenly Father. They still point out sin, and they are a guide, a guide, not a means, but a guide to righteous living.

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They are a guide to righteous living. They still point out sin. They are a fence placed around us to protect us, to help us know that.

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You know, I almost shy away from using this example, but I've been teaching through the

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Ten Commandments, and that's one of the reasons we decided to do it this afternoon. But in some of my research,

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I thought that I would get a hold of and read Dr. Laura Schlesinger's book on the

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Ten Commandments. And it's quite interesting, one of the negatives about the book is she never mentions sin.

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She never really speaks of the violation of these commandments as being a sin. She seems to want to avoid that.

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But she gave a really good example, and what I like about it is she was actually quoting from a Christian minister in giving this example.

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And it refers back to something you said about the second use of the law, or I'm sorry, the second sense in which it's binding, and that is that we'll be judged for disobeying it.

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And you had mentioned that so many of us believe that the summary of the law, to love the Lord our

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God with all our heart, soul, strength, and mind, to love our neighbor as yourself. That's all we need to do. We need to go out and love, and that's all we need to do.

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As long as we love people, then the Holy Spirit's going to guide us. And yet what I have always said is that we need some guidelines.

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We don't know how to love. And the example that Dr. Laura used in her book, and again she was quoting from a Christian minister, is husbands, try that with your wives.

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Go home today and just love your wife, and don't seek any direction from her. Don't seek how she wants to be loved.

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Don't ask her questions. Don't seek her guidance. Don't worry about the things she likes. You just go home and love her, and see how far you're going to get with that.

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How far do you think you'd get with that at home, Benny? Well, I'm hoping my wife isn't listening right now so that she can use this against me.

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But you're exactly right. I mean, one of the verses that you give here, passages in Romans 7, states that, you know, what shall we say then?

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And Paul is asking, is the law sin? May it never be. On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the law, for I would have known about coveting if the law had not said, you shall not covet.

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There it is. There's the description. There's the instruction for us for righteous living. But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind.

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For apart from the law, sin is dead. I think it's so important for us as believers to realize what our

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Lord taught, what the Apostle teaches, is that the way we love God is by obeying

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His commandments. There's no way around it, Mike. Those of us who have been given a new heart, been saved by grace through faith and not by works of law, but by grace through faith,

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God's gift, those people with a new heart have a desire to love God. How do they love God?

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They love God by obeying His commandments. Absolutely. In fact, Paul picks up on that same thought in chapter 13 of Romans, and he writes this, and this is really interesting because he will quote the

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Ten Commandments. He writes in chapter 13, verse 8, O nothing to anyone except to love one another.

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For he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For this, and now he quotes, you shall not commit adultery.

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You shall not murder. You shall not steal. You shall not covet. And if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, you shall love your neighbor as yourself.

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Love does no wrong to a neighbor. Therefore, love is the fulfillment of the law.

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Now right away, Mike, what ends up happening is a believer says, see, there it is. You don't need the law.

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You just need to love. But that's not what it's saying, is it, Mike? It's not saying when you love someone, now he just takes the law and puts it aside.

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What love does is it uses those commandments as guides and applies those principles of God's law in our lives, in our living, in the way we treat our neighbor.

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Is that correct, Mike? Absolutely. In fact, I think it's important to point out at the beginning of our next hour, well,

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I guess we're going to take a break right now, and at the beginning of this next hour, we'll pick up where we've left off. Welcome back to The Dividing Line.

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Again, let me introduce myself. My name is Mike Munoz. I'm a board member with Alpha and Omega Ministries. Dr. James White is not with us this afternoon.

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He's down in Tucson teaching systematic theology. In studio with me, we have

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Rich Pierce, president of Alpha and Omega Ministries. Rich, how are you doing back there? I'm doing just fine.

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I didn't get a chance to actually say something this time. And also with us in studio is another board member and longtime co -worker with Alpha and Omega Ministries.

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I'm dating him. I'm aging him. Benny Diaz. Benny, welcome back. It's good to be back. It was a good discussion first hour, and we would welcome new calls for anyone who might have questions, comments, thoughts about the

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Ten Commandments and its role for the believer today. You may find yourself in a church where perhaps the

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Ten Commandments are really looked down upon, or perhaps a church where the Ten Commandments are held beyond the point of where they should be held, as Mike shared last hour on the role of the

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Ten Commandments and the law of God. I like what the Baptist Confession 1689 says,

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Mike, where, as true believers, we're not under the law as a covenant of works to be justified or condemned, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, in that, as a rule of life, informing them of the will of God and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly, discovering also the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts, and lives, so as to examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin.

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And it goes on to say just some tremendous truths, which gives us the right perspective of the law of God.

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Absolutely. It's amazing how some of those men of old could capture so much in such a short paragraph.

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And in fact, if we have time before the end of the hour, that's something I'd like to move into, and that is the uses or the functions of the law for the believer.

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But before we keep going, let me remind you once again, as Benny said, we would like to hear from you. We'd like to interact with you.

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If you're in town, if you're local in Phoenix, the number is 602 -274 -1360.

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Again that's 602 -274 -1360. And if you're out of town, you can get us by 1 -888 -550 -1360.

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Again that's 1 -888 -550 -1360. At the end of the first half of the show, we had talked about what do we mean by binding.

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We had begun the show by asking, is the law of God, in any sense whatsoever, binding upon the

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New Testament believer? We narrowed down the definition of the law of God. We narrowed our focus, and I said that what

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I mean when I refer to the law of God is specifically the moral law of God, or the

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Ten Commandments. That's what I mean by law of God. And then again I asked the question, are the Ten Commandments binding upon the

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New Testament Christian? I answered affirmatively that question. I believe the Ten Commandments are binding upon Christians.

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And then we reviewed briefly what I meant by binding. And again let me recap what I mean by binding is, number one, they are to be obeyed.

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They are to be obeyed. Number two, we will answer for disobeying these commandments. We will stand before Christ in judgment and answer for our sins.

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Number three, they identify sin and they are a guide, not a means.

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Not a means. They are a guide to righteous living. And we are incapable, and I think this is important to point out right now, we are incapable of obeying the law of God apart from being united to and justified by Jesus Christ.

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First and foremost. First and foremost. Then what impact do they have on an unbeliever? Okay, what impact would they have on the unbeliever?

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Well, quite simply, if you were to follow the argument of the Apostle Paul in the book of Romans, especially beginning the second chapter, and for those of you that are familiar with the book, you'll know that in chapter one, about verse 18,

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Paul starts with a lengthy exposition, explanation of the gospel.

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And in chapter one, verse 18, all the way to the end of about chapter three, his argument centers on the sinfulness of men.

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All men. All men. Pagan, Jew, all men are condemned by the law of God. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, is his conclusion.

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But what he argues for, all the way up to chapter eight, is the fact that the law of God in the life of the unbeliever, the law of God in the life of a person prior to justification, prior to regeneration, all it can do is reveal your sin, cause you to sin more, and condemn you.

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Put you in the place of judgment before a holy, righteous God who will pour out his wrath upon your violation of those commandments.

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That's what you were referring to, correct, Benny? Yes, absolutely. All right, what I thought we might move into for this portion of the hour is we spoke that they were binding, we've explained now what we mean by the fact that they are binding, and what

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I would like to do is I would like to give you, quickly, six reasons as to why they are binding, and then if we'd like, either we can back up and cover them in more detail, or if you want to stop me along the way,

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Benny, that's fine, too, and it looks like we're starting to get some phone calls, so good to hear from you, but let me just run through these reasons real fast, and this is why, again,

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I believe Scripture teaches that the law of God is binding upon the New Testament Christian. Number one, they reflect the character of God.

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They reflect the character of God, we have been created in the image of God, therefore we are supposed to reflect that image, that character of God, therefore the commandments are binding.

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God's character doesn't change, God's standard of right and wrong doesn't change, the

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Ten Commandments are not going to change. And one of the places they can look is in Romans 7 .12, you find then that the law, according to Paul, is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good, which is a reflection of God's character.

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Other places that they can look for that is in the book of Psalms, 25, verses 8 and 10, and Psalm 111, just Psalm 119.

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Those Psalms are full of the topic of the law of God and how it reflects the character of God.

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I like the second one you have there, Mike, and the second reason why the Ten Commandments are just as binding.

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Why don't you share that one with us, Benny? Well, they're written upon the hearts of the believer, the New Covenant believer.

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They're written upon the hearts of New Covenant believers. Jeremiah 31 is a real popular passage where a lot of us go to, and you cite that and refer to that in that little, that point too, written in the hearts of the

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New Covenant believer, Jeremiah 31 .33. Right, and while you're trying to turn to it, basically

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Jeremiah 31 .33, what it teaches is that in the New Covenant, because God is not satisfied with the

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Old Covenant, God is not satisfied with the covenant initiated at Sinai, the prophet Jeremiah, in speaking on behalf of Jehovah God, says that in the

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New Covenant, God will write His laws upon our hearts. God will give us the ability to obey

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His laws. As New Covenant believers, and certainly as we read the

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Gospels, as we read the book of Hebrews, as we read what Paul has to say about the work of Christ, we need to understand that Jesus Christ's blood on Calvary initiated the

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New Covenant. We are New Covenant believers. We are in the New Covenant. We are related to God via a covenant.

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Jesus' blood initiated that and brought us into that covenant. Part of that covenant, according to Jeremiah, according to the writer of Hebrews in the eighth chapter who quotes

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Jeremiah here, part of that covenant involves the fact that the law of God has been written upon our hearts.

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And if you go to that passage and you look at it contextually, and I would recommend those of you that maybe you're taking notes out there, maybe this is new to you,

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I would recommend that if you were to go to that passage, start at least at chapter 25 of Jeremiah.

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It'd be better to start at chapter 1 and read through it, but if you wanted to maybe take a quicker look at it, start at chapter 25, read through to that passage, and you'll see that contextually there really is no other law that makes sense there but the law that was revealed on Sinai.

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Did you want to read the entire passage? Well, I'd speak to Ezekiel also. I think you cited it pretty much right in the heart, the law on the hearts of the believer.

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Ezekiel in Ezekiel 36 .25 tells us that I will sprinkle clean water on you and you will be clean.

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I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you, and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh, and I will put my spirit within you and cause you to walk in my statutes, and you will be careful to observe my ordinances.

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Absolutely. Again, you see that same thing throughout Scripture. Let me get to point number three as to why these are binding.

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We're rapidly approaching a break, and we have a caller online. We have Kathy from Peoria, and we're going to get to her first thing right after this break.

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But the third reason that I believe that the law of God, that Scripture teaches the law of God to be binding, is that they are identical to the law of God written on the hearts of all men,

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Romans chapter 2, verses 14 and 50, thus condemning man as a lawbreaker. And we might want to take a closer look at that after the break.

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In what sense? Because what Scripture teaches in Romans 2 is that all men, by virtue of their creation in the image of God, have the law of God written upon their hearts.

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Romans chapter 2 goes on to teach us that all that law does, because we're fallen, is condemn us and judge us.

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And that's why in the New Covenant, Jesus Christ rewrites that same law upon our hearts, but he does it in a way that we now have the power to love it, to obey it, to adhere to it, to live our lives according to that standard.

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And I think that if you look at the context of Romans chapter 2, if you study the context carefully, and again, you want to start from the beginning of chapter 2 and read all the way through to the end of chapter 2, the context of chapter 2, again, is extremely clear.

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It is the Ten Commandments that Paul is speaking of. It's the moral law. In fact, Paul quotes three of the

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Ten Commandments as he's explaining this. And the whole idea found in chapter 2 of Romans is that all men are under the judgment of God.

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Some men are under the judgment of God via natural revelation, the law of God written upon their hearts, and other men, the people of Israel, they are under the judgment of God via supernatural revelation, but the standard of judgment is the same.

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The standard of judgment is the law of God, and that law doesn't change. And Paul quotes three of the

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Ten Commandments in the latter half of chapter 2 to make his point so that there's no confusion there.

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In chapter 2, verse 21, he says, You therefore who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that one shall not steal, do you steal?

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That's the Eighth Commandment. You who teach that one should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery?

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That's the Seventh Commandment. You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? That's the Second Commandment.

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And Paul is making a contrast here again. It's between two forms of judgment, special revelation judgment, natural revelation judgment.

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The standard is the same. The standard is the law of God. Let's go ahead and we'll move on to the fourth reason that the law of God is binding upon the lives of men, and that is that they were understood and obeyed prior to their revelation at Sinai.

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They were understood and obeyed prior to their revelation at Sinai. If you go back and you just take a survey look at the book of Genesis, you'll find that the people in Genesis understood certain things were right, certain things were wrong, certain things were worthy of death, certain things were worthy of punishment.

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And as you study those things out and then you go to the revelation of God's law in Exodus 20, you'll find out that there's a correspondence there.

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I mean, did you want to chime in there? One thing that comes to my mind is Joseph. When Joseph was sold into slavery by his brothers and Joseph was purchased by Potiphar and then

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God blessed Joseph and He raised him up and He put him into a place of prominence, Potiphar's wife continued to make moves on Joseph.

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Benny, why did Joseph know that it was wrong to engage in any type of activity with Potiphar's wife?

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How did he know that? Well, something was written in his heart. Absolutely. The law of God was written on his heart.

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Joseph was created in the image of God. The law of God, the Ten Commandments, reflected the character of God.

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Ergo, Joseph knew that it was a sin. Joseph knew that it was wrong. Again, when we come back after break, we're going to get with Kathy in Peoria and we'll start taking some calls.

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Welcome back to Dividing Line. Again, my name is Mike Munoz. I'm sitting in studio for James White. In studio with me today is

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Benny Diaz and Rich Pierce of Alpha and Omega Ministries. And as I promised, we're going to get to Kathy in Peoria.

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Kathy, you're on the air. Can you hear? Hi, yes. Thank you so much for going over this, Mike and Benny.

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I appreciate it. I apologize for keeping you on break. I think we crossed some wires there and I thought that our break was going to be a little sooner or else

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I would have got you off hold. That's okay. You're forgiven. Thank you. Well, one of the first things that came to my mind when

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I heard you talking about the law is the Book of Galatians. And when I was in Bible college, I just, you know, one of the main themes that we learned about was that we are not justified by the works of the law.

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We're justified by faith. And I know that you're talking, when you say the law, you're not talking about us being justified by it.

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However, there are some verses in Galatians that I guess are a little bit different than kind of trip me up. And maybe you can explain them.

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All right. Paul talks about, for through the law, I died to the law in chapter 2 .19,

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and then later on in chapter 3, he talks about, you know, just how he who practices the law has to live by them.

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And so I'm just wondering how you can explain, you know, is this talking about the ceremonial law?

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Is it talking about the Ten Commandments? Absolutely. And, you know, it's interesting because commentators will disagree on what law

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Paul is talking about. But I think if you back up to the beginning of chapter 2, Paul has an encounter with Peter.

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And let me start, oh, let me start in verse 3. And Paul is talking about, in verse 3, he says, but not even

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Titus, who is with me, though he was a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised, but it was because of the false brethren secretly brought in who had sneaked in to spy out our liberty we have in Christ Jesus in order to bring us into bondage.

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And then towards the end of chapter 2, in verse 16, he says this. And what I'm trying to do for you, Kathy, is establish the context of the book of Galatians.

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Because in order to interpret anything in any scriptural passage, and I'm sure you're aware of this, you need to understand the context.

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Paul in Galatians chapter 2, verse 16, says, nevertheless, knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ Jesus and not by the works of the law, since by the works of the law no flesh will be justified.

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And the way that I would explain the book of Galatians in a sweeping move here would be that Paul is arguing for justification by faith.

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And just like we've tried to make very clear in the early part of the show, is the law in no way can justify you.

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The law in no way can add to your standing before God, prior to conversion or even after conversion.

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I do not gain points. I do not gain a greater standing in heaven by obeying the law of God.

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It's a guide to righteous living, and in fact, in another epistle of Paul in the book of Ephesians, chapter 2, verses 8 and 9, most of us know, for by grace we've been saved through faith, this not of ourselves, but as a gift of God, so that no man should boast.

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But verse 10 says that God has actually created works for us to walk in.

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So even my good works after salvation are not gaining me status or stature before God.

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Back to the book of Galatians, what Paul is establishing and what Paul is dealing with early on, and he makes very clear to us, is he's dealing with the

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Judaizers. And what the Judaizers wanted to do is they wanted to take parts of the law of Moses and attempt to make them binding upon New Testament believers.

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Specifically in the book of Galatians, it was the topic of circumcision. The Judaizers were arguing that the

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Galatian believers needed to be circumcised, plus believe in Jesus. And any time you add something to faith alone, you have a blasphemous gospel.

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In fact, Paul starts out the book of Galatians, he says, I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting him who called you by the grace of Christ for a different gospel.

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And that's what Paul is dealing with in the book of Galatians. Does that make sense to you, Kathy? Yes, I appreciate that.

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I think I'm wanting to ask this on behalf of those who might be listening who haven't heard this preached before.

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I think a lot of Christians tend to think about the liberty that we have in Christ, and just, you know, the law is almost like a bad thing.

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And so I appreciate what you're talking about, because I think it's very, very helpful.

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Well, Kathy, I want to thank you for your phone call. We're going to go ahead and move on, and I'm actually going to continue to talk about your question.

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I'm going to lay out some guidelines, because there's actually quite a few verses out there that people might refer to and find confusing, and I'd like to give some basic rule of thumb or some methods by which we can interpret those passages.

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So thanks a lot, Kathy, for your phone call. And she brings up a good point, Mike. That's the questions that are always raised.

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I mean, if you go further in Galatians chapter 5, well, even before then, in chapter 3, it starts to tell us the role of the law in verse 24.

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Therefore, the law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ that we may be justified by faith, but now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

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In other words, the role of the law as our tutor leading us to Christ, we're no longer under that. Later on, he establishes in chapter 5 that we're walking by the

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Spirit of God who's given to us. And he even points out in verse 14 that the whole law is fulfilled in one word.

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In the statement, you shall love your neighbor as yourself. We spoke about that, where Christ surmised the whole law by loving the

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Lord God and loving your neighbor. Does that nullify the law? Does it remove the law?

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No, it fulfills the law. In other words, you are fulfilling the Ten Commandments. You are fulfilling the commandments of God when you love.

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Because when you love someone, you're not going to murder them. When you love someone, you're not going to steal from them or commit adultery, etc.,

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etc. And he goes on even to speak about walking by the Spirit rather than by the flesh, and the fruit of the

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Spirit is laid out there, love, joy, peace, patience, and again, love includes love for God, love for each other, obedience to God's commandments.

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Nowhere in here is Paul trying to eradicate the law, remove it, or point out the fact that it has no role but to establish its role, and that the law will never justify an individual.

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Absolutely. I think that if we keep in mind the context of the book of Galatians, that Paul is arguing vehemently for a pure gospel, a gospel that proclaims justification by faith alone.

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And that is key. It is justification by faith alone. It is all of grace, and that is what

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Paul is arguing for in the book of Galatians. And Paul is arguing against a group of people, commonly referred to nowadays as the

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Judaizers, who were abusing the things of God's law. And as I read through the book of Galatians, there seems to be, at different parts, a difference of emphasis.

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I think the Judaizers were certainly abusing the moral law, but they certainly were also abusing the ceremonial law.

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In fact, Paul gets a little frustrated at the very end, and literally in the Greek, he tells them to do something quite unpleasant, because they keep pushing this idea of circumcision.

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And Paul says, well, why don't you just take it all off? Well, let the knife slip. Yeah, I mean, if you're so worried about it, let's just remove everything, and it'll be done and said, done and over with.

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So that's the context of the book of Galatians, and understanding the context helps us to understand those passages where it seems like Paul is speaking harshly to the law.

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Rich, you wanted to chime in? Yeah, I had a question about, before the break, I think it was on your point three, and you talked about how we are keeping the law as now made possible.

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And I think there is a group out there that kind of misunderstands that application. Have you ever heard of sinless perfectionism?

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Yes, I have. And I think that we need to address that briefly into what it is, this idea that Christ is actually made it possible for us to actually be sinless.

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Okay, and I think that what I can do is go back to, again, the epistle of Romans, and let me read to you first from Romans chapter 8, and we'll start in the first verse.

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Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, for the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death.

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For what the law could not do, weak as it was through the faith, God did, sending his son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin.

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He condemns sin in the flesh. Here's the important passage, verse 4. So that the requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who no longer walk according to the flesh, but according to the spirit.

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And in terms of can we now live perfect lives, all you need to do is back up and read

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Romans chapter 7, verse 14 through the end of the chapter, and it's one of my favorite passages in scripture because here the apostle

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Paul pours out his heart and bemoans the fact that he's still sinful, that he continues to sin, and right after he spends a number of verses talking about that, in fact, he ends in a certain amount of frustration, wretched man that I am, who will set me free from this body of sin and death?

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Well that's the dividing line for today, thanks Mike, we certainly appreciate you and Benny jumping in there.

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Phoenix, Arizona, 85069. You can also find us on the World Wide Web at aomin .org,

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that's a -o -m -i -n dot o -r -g, where you'll find a complete listing of James White's books, tapes, debates, and tracks.