September 3, 2020 Show with Rich Jensen on “The Strong Benefits of Fellowship Between Like-Minded Congregations in the Midst of a Regional, National or Global Crisis”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing

the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens

another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to

have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with

your own questions.

And now here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth, who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this third day of

September 2020.

And there's nothing I like more than interviewing somebody that is not only

a very biblically literate and biblically wise and dear Christian

brother, but on top of that, somebody who's also a very close longtime friend.

And my guest today would be all of those things.

He is one of my dearest friends, somebody who has truly been with me through thick and thin.

He's been with me as a comrade -in -arms, as it were, in the spiritual realm,

and a friend and a counselor and shepherd.

Although he's never been officially my pastor, he has certainly

filled that role at times in my life.

And I am speaking of none other than Rich Jensen, who's pastor of Hope Reform Baptist Church

of Coram, Long Island, New York, which is also a place I consider my home away from home when I

visit Long Island.

And today we are going to be addressing the strong benefits of fellowship between like -minded churches

in the midst of a regional, national, or global crisis.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Shepherd Zion Radio, Pastor Rich Jensen.

Good afternoon, Chris.

Praise God.

It's great to have you back, brother.

And before we go into the theme at hand, for the sake of our listeners who might be new, they're not hearing your

ads every day because they're hearing you for the first time.

They haven't heard any of your previous interviews with us.

Tell us about Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York.

Sure.

Hope Reform Baptist was founded back in 1996,

and we have just refilled

campus by 1689.

Confessional in Long

Island.

And if anybody wants more information about Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York, you could go to

hopereformedli .net.

That's hopereformedli for LongIsland .net.

Well, this pandemic, this coronavirus,

has certainly done a lot of damage globally.

And I think the damage that has been done has been primarily, and I think obviously,

far more in the realm of businesses being shut down unnecessarily for a

prolonged period of time, and churches being shut down for a prolonged period of

time.

But thankfully, many churches refused to

close permanently.

And when it was impossible to meet all in one public sanctuary, they had home

meetings and other things.

And one such church is Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York.

But Pastor Rich, I understand that you have learned something, even though you always knew it,

because of your gregarious and even aggressive

nature involving getting Hope Reform Baptist Church to be more than an isolated

church or an island unto itself.

You have always been known to be somebody that wanted your congregation to be

interacting and fellowshipping with and cooperating with other like

-minded churches.

Not churches that are necessarily exactly as you are.

They're not all confessional churches.

They're not all on every jot and tittle Reform Baptist churches.

Those that have, for the most part, a like -minded mission, a like -minded theology at

the core of it, at the very least.

And so tell us about how this coronavirus pandemic even heightened that reality of the

benefits of fellowship between like -minded congregations.

Sure.

Well, it was a number of years ago, five, maybe even six years ago now, that

we started a long...

And the idea behind that fellowship

is the

kingdom of God and in the realm of having conferences

together

in

small

churches.

And so the thought was, if we can get some of the pastors at the churches to

get like -minded, and if

we can be

centered just around

that, what would we consider to be the

true gospel.

Virtual

churches were frequent

guests.

Gary DeMar was scheduled to be the pandemic hit, and that put a

kibosh on that for the time being.

But that's when

the pandemic hit.

We just recognized that

the

pandemic, not everybody takes

advantage of Christian fellowship.

And one of the things that we've seen...

...time meal together on Sundays

tremendously

that

go down

to with

another

church.

Some of their members come out and we're doing that together.

Same thing

with other churches.

Pandemic

hits, they were all saying the same thing,

how this in

general, and

banning

the churches together.

I

think

this topic today might be especially

needed.

For like -minded churches that are more

identical, although not completely identical.

I don't think I've ever been in a Reformed Baptist church where every person in the same congregation agrees on everything.

But Reformed Baptist churches, although we may like to

have ties and interaction and communication and fellowship with other

confessional Reformed Baptist churches all over the world, Reformed Baptist churches aren't exactly

known.

And I don't say this as a positive thing.

We're not exactly known as a group of folks whose churches

have a lot of interaction with the local churches that surround them.

Those that are within an hour drive or less

especially when there are differences, especially when not every jot and tittle

is the same involving covenant theology, involving the Sabbath, involving the confession.

And that's one of the reasons I actually think what you do is a breath of fresh air because

I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, and you could obviously, since you're my guest, put your two cents in here,

but I think that Christians personally, individually, and

churches as corporate bodies are harmed when they have

little to no interaction with people that have disagreements with them.

And I'm not endorsing modern ecumenism where we are linking arms with people that

deny the gospel, where we are, as much as I love Roman Catholics or linking

arms with Roman Catholics who officially and dogmatically deny the gospel

and with liberals on the other end of the spectrum who are total apostates who

support abortion and same -sex marriage and homosexual activity

and who deny the pillars of the faith.

But there are a multitude of brethren out there who

agree with us on the core things and on a lot of things, but are not necessarily

in the so -called camp of confessional Reformed Baptists.

And I think that we do ourselves a disservice and them a disservice when there is no interaction because not

only can we be a great source of guiding

our fellow Christians and non -Reformed churches in the area to

deeper truths, but we can learn from them because I think that many, if not most,

theological camps or denominations or fellowships have blind spots.

And just to pick up where I left off there, maybe you disagree with me on some of what I said, or maybe you agree completely, I don't know.

No, I'm in general agreement with you.

I think we have to be careful.

I mean, there is a county,

and I haven't been a part of that for a number of years because of it's

so diverse that, to me anyway.

So that's why, you know, this is meant for,

and so the center around that, and hopefully we can

put that aside.

I mean, even for example, take eschatology.

I mean, in my church alone, we have three, there's three different views of eschatology,

a point that should be, you know, dividing us.

And there are several issues.

So that's why we're

focusing on all the nations.

And we can partner with a lot of churches that we might have some doctrinal differences.

89,

limping

the day holy all

day, a bagel fellowship about nine o 'clock in the morning.

Then we have our Sunday school, then we have the fellowship

meal.

Then we either have a nursing home ministry, which unfortunately that was put on hold because of the

teams out, or we have an afternoon service.

And by the time we leave here, it's four or five o 'clock at night.

So people can actually come here and wind up worshipping and worshipping

pretty much all day long, which not everybody in the Spurgeon

Fellowship believes in that, you

know, we can put,

because we're

not, we can.

Amen.

Now, obviously, it's clear that individuals need fellowship with other

Christians.

In fact, we are commanded in the scriptures not to forsake the assembly of the brethren.

We're commanded to be under the authority of local elders, but what is important about churches

having fellowship with other churches?

Well, you know, churches take on characteristics just like individuals do.

I mean, you wouldn't want cookie cutter people sitting in your congregation.

I mean, as I look over my congregation, we have such a wide variety of people, personalities.

In fact, if you look at our congregation, it looks like a little mini United Nations.

I mean, there's just so many different ethnicities involved.

The United Nations without the communism?

I'm sorry, I missed that.

I said the United Nations without the communism.

Without the communism, yes.

So, I mean, you wouldn't want, well, you know, there's an old saying, if two people agree

on everything, one of them is unnecessary, you know?

And so you want differing views on different things, and that's, well, iron sharpens

iron, means that you're going to have some disagreements and you work through that.

As in a local congregation, that's true.

You have the same in the larger body of Christ, which is

not a cookie cutter of the other ones.

Doesn't necessarily have the same primary ministries.

Of course, I mean, the gospel church may

have the ability to, another one

may have, you know, you might have one and

hold them back.

They want to be out on the street.

Each one is a little bit different.

So we can build on all of our strengths as we unite together.

And they only have one elder, and they don't, maybe they don't even have another

gifted brother.

A church like mine, we were, I mean, I have three elders and five

deacons.

We had some men who are not even office bearers.

And the

benefits

of...

Yes, I think that this is a healthy,

biblical response to denominationalism.

As a Baptist, and I believe that you would agree with me being a Baptist yourself,

I believe in the local independence and autonomy

of a local congregation where the authority goes no

farther than the local elders of those congregations, with the exception, of

course, being the inerrant word of God, and God himself.

But we don't see there existing in the Bible any

hierarchical structure for a denomination.

So this is a way where you can have the benefits of a

denomination without having the baggage of a denomination.

I mean, there have been denominations that began as biblically faithful

and who were, even though congregations might have differed on

lesser important things, they were flourishing for quite a long time, over a century in some cases.

And then when corruption came in, because of the tight connection

of those churches that I believe exceeded biblical tightness, and because of the

hierarchical structure of authority where you have boards and presbyteries and other

things that loom above all of the congregations in that denomination, you've had an

entire collapse of denominations that have been totally

destroyed by liberalism and apostasy.

Whereas if you are an independent and autonomous church, once something like that

begins to creep into the practice and belief of a church with whom you are having fellowship, you just

warn them and cut the fellowship off.

Without any other unnecessary harmful baggage.

In the case of a denomination, a church will very often lose its own building and property because of

serious division over theology.

So am I making sense here?

Yeah, and I couldn't agree with you more.

Jim Renahan wrote a book about denominations, and

I support Reformed

Baptists

serving to

another

association

that would be centered around a Reformed Baptist,

confessional Reformed Baptist church.

There's only two national churches.

Requirements are to,

and there is, there's no dues, there's nothing like that, there's no real strife,

even in a less formal setting.

Again, I have no problem with a formal association.

I can't, what can I do with the Los Angeles, California?

Now, how

specifically

are there great

benefits,.

Strong benefits to this practice when we are faced with

a global crisis such as the coronavirus crisis, which

I think has become far more of a crisis than it needed to be.

I'm not trying to undermine the seriousness of the coronavirus and trying to pretend that it is

not serious at all, but I think that governments and political leaders

have really exaggerated the dangers of this to the point where the

governments themselves became far more dangerous than the virus.

But if you could, how has this specifically been of benefit during the coronavirus

pandemic?

Well, during the pandemic, again,

we're lending

support and ideas,

be faithful to our commission as a church to,

and yet not come in conflict with.

And here in New York, the government

has

got one

another and that was

a great benefit because at

one point considered action,

mandate of socially distancing when they opened it up for us.

And so, I mean, if anybody came and checked, you would see that, we have done everything that we can

and with the social distancing and

strength in talking to one another, knowing that you're not.

No, no.

One thing that always puzzled me is, why is it that even before the coronavirus

became known as a pandemic, why is it that every time I visited Hope, people socially distanced from

me?

Just good taste.

Of course I kid, but we have to go to our first break right now.

If anybody wants to join us, the question of your own, send an email to chrisarnsen at gmail

.com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

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I'm Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love, Hope

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Or call 631 -696 -5711.

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Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa

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Good to be back, Chris.

I always enjoy our time.

You, I have to tell you, one of the better interviewers out there, and I've been doing this for 30,

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Wow, that's some compliment.

How much do I owe you for that?

You don't have to owe me anything.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arns.

And if you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours with a little less than 90 minutes to go is Pastor

Rich Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York.

We are discussing the strong benefits of fellowship between congregations in the midst

of a regional, national or global crisis especially.

And our email address, if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own is chrisarnson at

gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

We have an anonymous listener, Pastor Rich, who has a question.

In our day and age, it is quite common to find Calvinists amongst

charismatic and Pentecostal churches, although they certainly would make up a minority of those

groups.

Having said that, they are still found and I was wondering if you extend your fellowships

to such churches and if they are permitted to ever act upon their

views of the signed gifts during gathered worship with your other churches in

the fellowship.

We haven't experienced that and would

not necessarily

exclude them.

In

fact,

there

was

no issues with him whatsoever.

It would depend, I think, on the individual becoming

and insisting that they...

You just started speaking in tongues.

It just came over me all of a sudden.

If they insisted on practicing something that they know would be divisive, that would be a bar from fell.

I mean, there comes a point where you

would have 1689 church.

When you say you don't have any charismatic churches

who are part of your fellowship, I believe what you mean by that is you

don't have any full -blown Pentecostal or charismatic churches

that are identified that way.

But you...

Excuse me, I don't know where this clogged throat is coming from.

You do have non -cessationist churches or at least one that is involved in the fellowship.

Yes, yes.

Discussed.

And that individual would never come

up like that in a combined fellowship because that would just be a

bar to the unity of the church.

Yes, that would be an intentional infringement upon the intent of the gathering.

Yeah.

And, of course, unless it was agreed upon as some kind of interactive

discussion or debate, you would not have a gathering like this that included paedo

-baptist churches and then start slamming credo -baptism or baptism only

for repentant believers in their midst during those

gatherings because that would be also another way of really snubbing your nose

at our brothers over issues that are not a part of the reason

that these fellowship gatherings exist.

Yeah.

The purpose of reaching out and having fellowship with some similar

like -minded churches is to promote unity and promote the gospel.

We would never choose a topic and

have different views again.

But I would rather not have...

And it could be different depending on what you say.

And that's not the purpose.

The purpose is to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Of course, that includes an end times view.

And if we can do that, get the gospel out,.

Then people...

Now, of course, of course, you're speaking solely in the realm of these fellowship gatherings because

your church, you would freely speak on, teach on, and preach on

eschatology.

In fact, as you already mentioned, you invited Gary DeMar to speak at Hope Reformed

Baptist Church, and it was only postponed because of the COVID virus restrictions at the time.

Yes.

And Gary DeMar certainly is going to be clear about his post -millennialism.

Oh, is that what he is?

Well, for those of our listeners who don't know, Pastor Rich Jensen is a thoroughgoing post -millennialist.

And so is his, at least one of his co -elders, Christopher McDowell is.

I don't know what Anthony is.

Has Anthony come down on a position?

Anthony Eugenio.

There's a unity in the eldership.

Oh, okay.

So Anthony Eugenio is also a post -millennial.

I believe he is, yes.

Okay. I'll send him a get well soon card.

I'm just kidding.

I'm actually very thrilled that Anthony has joined your eldership, but he's been...

Don't worry, he's getting better.

He's been a dear friend for years, and so glad that his gifts have been recognized by you,

and that he's been given...

I mean, I was waiting for years for him to join a good, solid church like Hope.

And I'm so glad that he's in that church now.

Yeah, he has been a tremendous blessing too.

Okay.

We have another question that is not far from what we were just discussing.

John in Bangor, Maine asks, I know that you have invited Gary DeMar to

speak at your church because of previous interviews I've heard with members of your church.

I was wondering if Hope Reformed Baptist Church is theonomic officially, or do you just have

some leanings that way?

Well, again, there are different views within the church.

Being a confessional church, 1689 is the official

church, and it's very clear is

that the

theonomic view of

certain theonomists, but you may

talk to different individuals within the church.

They might have varying degrees of theonomic leanings or some who are not theonomic at all, but

that's the official.

Yes, and so you would clearly,

it would be an issue that would not prohibit somebody becoming a member being for or against,

depending upon the extreme level of

vociferousness one might have.

Obviously, if somebody is militant in opposition to theonomy, you wouldn't want, that would be an uncomfortable

situation for them to be a member, and perhaps even somebody who is overbearing in the other direction, making others

feel less Christian if they did not adopt theonomic views and

Christian Reconstructionist views.

Yeah, and again, because the official view, and this is one of the benefits

of being a confessional church is you go back to the confession as to what we believe that the scripture teaches.

And again, now certain things are what does

the general equity mean by the law of God, but clearly we hold to it

so the moral laws binding forever and ever has always been,

and the general equity, and in fact, I like what Gary North,

having a law enforcement background, I think that's an excellent way of putting forth what those laws are.

How do you apply the moral law to our society today?

Go back and look at how it was applied inspirationally by the Holy Spirit to

Old Testament Israel.

I mean, Ten Commandments to our system.

And you've revealed that the 1689 London Baptist Confession

is brief enough that there is liberty

for disagreement on issues, and it's also detailed enough where

the law and its use makes it distinct from other sovereign, grace -believing

Calvinists.

Yeah.

Like, for instance, as you know full well, there would be a tiny, at least in the 21st

century, a tiny minority of 1689

confessional churches that were theonomic, especially in any kind of an official capacity.

Yeah, you're absolutely right.

But that great fellowship with 1689 churches,

not only in this country, and

that

has never before, and Baptists themselves

are such a minority that, you know.

Right.

We actually have to go to our midway break right now.

This is the longer -than -normal break, folks, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us

a longer break in the middle of our show because they have to, by FCC regulations, localize Iron Trump and Zion

Radio to Lake City, Florida by airing their own public service announcements and other

announcements during this break.

So please be patient with us, but also make good use of this time by writing down information provided by our

advertisers so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them.

Remember, folks, Iron Trump and Zion Radio cannot exist without our advertisers, which include Hope

Reform Baptist Church of Coral and Long Island, New York.

We need the financial support of these advertisers to remain on the air

and, therefore, these advertisers are most likely going to keep renewing

their contracts with us if they know that you are responding to them in some capacity,

even just to thank them for their support of Iron Trump and Zion Radio.

But please write down as much of the information as you can provided by our advertisers and respond to our

advertisers as much as you can.

But also write down questions for Rich Jensen on the cooperation and fellowship of congregations

and send those questions to chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

And as always, please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away.

We're going to be right back after these messages with more of Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church of

Coral and Long Island, New York in our discussion on the strong benefits of fellowship

between like -minded churches especially in the midst of a regional,

national, or global crisis.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back right after these messages from our sponsors.

Iron Trump and Zion Radio depends upon the financial support of fine Christian organizations to remain on the

air like the Historical Bible Society.

The Historical Bible Society maintains a collection of Christian books, manuscripts, and Bibles of

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James White of Alpha Omega Ministries and the Dividing Line.

Webcast here.

Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach,.

Preach, and debate.

At numerous venues, some of my very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with Pastor

Rich Jensen and the brethren at Hope Reform Baptist Church, now located at their new beautiful facilities in

Coram, Long Island, New York.

I've had the privilege of opening God's word from their pulpit on many occasions, have led youth retreats for them, and have always

been thrilled to see their members filling many seats at my New York debates.

I cannot hesitate to highly recommend Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island to anyone who wants to be

accurately taught, discipled, and edified by the Holy Scriptures and to be surrounded by truly loving

and caring brothers and sisters in Christ.

I also want to congratulate Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram for their recent appointment of Pastor Rich Jensen's co -elder,

Pastor Christopher McDowell.

For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

That's hopereformedli .net or call 631 -696

-5711.

That's 631 -696 -5711.

Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island that you heard about them from James White on Iron

Sharpens Iron Radio.

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005.

The publishers.

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Lindbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Lindbrook, Long Island, is teaching God's timeless truths in

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As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church

in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshipped and how he

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Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona.

Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the Iron Sharpens Iron podcast.

I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity.

He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key

doctrines of the Christian faith.

I've always been happy to point people to this podcast knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet

where folk won't be led astray.

I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide.

This is a day of great spiritual compromise and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time.

And knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer

and in finances.

I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting Iron

Sharpens Iron financially.

Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would.

All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com where you can click support.

That's ironsharpensironradio .com.

We are excited to announce another new member of the Iron Sharpens Iron radio advertising family,

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Greetings in the matchless name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

My name is Bhanu Gadi.

I'm a pharmacist in New York, which is the epicenter of the latest crisis the world is going through.

In Psalm 139 verse 14, the psalmist offers praise to the Lord like this.

I praise you because I'm fearfully and wonderfully made and wondrous are your works that my soul knows

very well.

He saw God's goodness and mercy, kindness and the beauty in what God has

designed and he has erupted into praise.

In any crisis or problem, brothers and sisters, our only fallback position is to trust God's

design.

And once we do,.

There is nothing for us to do but to erupt in praise to him.

When the whole world is searching for a solution, God in his infinite mercy has given us what we need to

address this illness, which can be very serious.

Such is the beauty of his design.

Knowing that design, how can we not erupt in praise to our great God like the psalmist did?

May God bless you and give all of us wisdom to see greater things in his design.

Thank you.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,.

Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He will not use the thoughts of other men's brains, proves he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

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books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past

or present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And don't forget, folks, please always make solid -ground -books .com your

very first stop for all your gift shopping needs, whether it be for birthdays,

whether it be for retirement gifts, whether it be for wedding anniversaries, back -to -school gifts,

bereavement gifts for those of your friends and loved ones who have lost loved ones of their own,

get -well -soon gifts.

I could go on and on and on with the reasons you all buy gifts, perhaps just the gift to tell somebody that you

love them and that you're thinking about them.

Well, please go to solid -ground -books .com because they really do have, and I'm not exaggerating, the finest of

Christian literature from the past and the present.

I know that my dear friend and guest, Pastor Rich Jensen, knows the founder and appreciates the

ministry of Solid Ground Christian Books very much as well.

Am I right, Pastor Rich?

Absolutely.

And folks, if you are only buying Christian books for your Christian

friends, I think that you're not doing quite what you should be doing for those in your

life who are lost.

I think that those who are lost in your life will need Christian literature even more than your

Christian brothers and sisters.

So don't rule out your lost friends, family, neighbors, and loved ones when

you're purchasing gifts because who knows, the Lord might use a gift from Solid Ground Christian Books to lead a

lost friend or loved one to Christ and an eternal relationship with Him.

So always go to solid -ground -books .com solid -ground -books .com and always mention Chris Arnzen of

Iron Trip and Zion Radio when you're making a purchase.

And folks, before we return to our discussion with Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York,

I just have a few announcements to make.

First of all, please mark your calendars and email,

text, call, and however else you communicate with those whom you love

and tell them, especially if they have a fascination and great interest in

science and perhaps even more specifically astronomy, tell them to tune in tomorrow,

that's Friday, the 4th of September, 4 to 6 p .m. Eastern Time, to hear Dr.

Jason Lyle, a Christian astrophysicist, popular speaker and author, and the

founder of Biblical Science Institute, also known as BSI.

He will be our guest for the very first time ever on Iron Trip and Zion Radio and he's going to be discussing his book, Taking

Back Astronomy.

And those blessed enough to send in their questions early enough and whose questions are good enough to be read on

the air will receive a free copy of this book, Taking Back Astronomy, which also includes photographs.

And we hope that you are one of those blessed to win a copy.

So mark that down on your calendar, put it on your refrigerator, put it on your screen of your laptop and your computer, wherever else

that you won't forget that tomorrow, Friday, September 4th, 4 to 6 p .m. Eastern Time, Dr.

Jason Lyle will be our guest on Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

Also folks, if you love this show and you do not want it to disappear from the airwaves, please go to

irontripandsionradio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now.

You could donate instantly with a debit or credit card by doing that.

And if you prefer snail mail, there's an address that will appear on your screen when you click support at

irontripandsionradio .com.

So you can send in a check, made payable to Iron Trip and Zion Radio to that address if you prefer that.

You can also advertise with us as long as whatever it is you're promoting is compatible with what we believe.

You don't have to believe exactly as I do, but you need to be promoting something that is at the very least compatible with what I believe.

So send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.

Always remember folks, I never want anybody listening to financially hurt your own church

by giving to Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

So please don't siphon money away from your regular giving that you're accustomed to to your own local church where

you're a member in order to give to Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

Never do that and never put your family in financial jeopardy by giving to Iron Trip and Zion Radio if

you're already struggling seriously to make ends meet.

Those two things are commands of God and scripture providing for your church and providing

for your family.

Providing for Iron Trip and Zion Radio is not obviously a command of God, but if you're financially blessed above and

beyond your ability to obey those two commands, providing for church and home, and you have extra money, perhaps

you have a lot of extra money because you have not been going during this pandemic, you've not been going to the movies,

you've not been going out to fine dining, you have not been going to concerts, you have not been

going to the theater to see theatrical performances and plays, you haven't been going to Bible conferences,

you haven't been doing a lot of things that you used to do because they have been shut down

because of the quarantining, so you have extra money that you didn't spend on those things that you love to do.

Well, please use some or all of that money depending upon how much you love the show and

send that to us to help us remain on the air.

That I have no qualms about you giving as much a percentage of that money to us as you possibly can

or want to.

Keep in mind, it's www .ironsherpinsironradio .com click support, then click, click to donate.

Now, we are in urgent need of your finances because we lost our two largest financial supporters

during the pandemic hysteria whose businesses were hit so hard that they had to at

the very least put on a postponement or hiatus for their giving to Iron Sherpins Iron Radio.

They did that reluctantly and they're hopefully going to come back as sponsors, but that has not been a

hundred percent proven to be the case.

So, please help us make up for that huge loss of income.

Go to www .ironsherpinsironradio .com click support, then click, click to donate now.

Also folks, if you are not a member of a bible -believing church, I have lists of biblically

faithful churches all over the world and I've helped people find churches very often that were just

minutes away from where they live and they didn't even know they existed in all parts of the planet earth.

So, if that is you, please send me an email at chrisarnson at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line.

I'll be God willing able to help you find a church or perhaps a church where you are visiting on vacation

or a church for your family, friends, and loved ones who do not have a church home.

I have lists, as I said, all over the world of good, solid, biblically faithful churches and I may be able to help you.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line.

That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church

of Coram, Long Island, New York.

And as I said, we are discussing the strong benefits of fellowship between like

-minded churches, especially during the midst of a

regional, global, or national crisis like we are experiencing with the

coronavirus pandemic, largely due to hysteria

and that is quite tragic.

So send in those questions and we do have a question, actually from a mutual friend in

Greenville, South Carolina.

Joe Bianchi, who has been a guest on this show, he also is a

dear close friend, especially enjoying a friendship with me face -to -face

almost daily.

In fact, pretty much daily when we shared office space in

Calvary Baptist Church of Amityville years ago where Calvary Press was born, but he is the president of

Calvary Press Publishing in Greenville, South Carolina now.

And Joe's question is, is the lack of doctrinal teaching and worldly fellowship

especially hurting the churches during the pandemic?

That's an interesting question because I think those things hurt the church all the time, but is there any reason

why the pandemic would make that even more of a destructive force or those more of

destructive forces?

Yeah, I think Joe's question is right on target.

And I think we have seen

stepping up and

doing

like into

almost like a, you know, they're not

going from this.

Actually, this question actually leads into what I was to put out.

One of the things I just want to mention is want

to give anybody the impression

of forming a local fellowship of churches and having fellowship that way is the answer to all of the

church's problems.

I mean, they were continually devoting themselves to

fellowship, to breaking bread and to prayer.

I mean, there are numerous means of grace, which the church is not availing itself of.

If you're not meeting in person, you're not celebrating.

And I think one of the things that we have to really keep in mind

because there's mental issues involved, there's emotional issues involved.

Well, Christians aren't exempt from those things.

The only thing is the difference is the

preaching of the word in a place of grace.

And the church is,

and while we may, I don't think anybody who's

in the right mind can't look at what's happening and saying, boy, the governor is really reaching.

I mean, where they can actually determine, you can open your business

deciding who has it.

Sometimes

it's

on

frivolous

executive

orders.

Where do they go?

What are they doing?

Are you violating the governor's mandate and things like that?

That affects the church.

And we always have to remember that behind that, you may not, you

may find that it's,

Paul makes a big point of that in Ephesians chapter six, talking about, you know, putting the word

of God is not something just to be,

and the metaphor that

he

uses behind it.

That's why the church

who

administered it and to do the things that were commanded by God to do,

on hold, because then you're resting.

And Nehemiah, I think, is covering the

walls of Jerusalem.

And I mean, what did he do?

He used the trowel in one hand and the sword in the other.

There were, and a

tremendous example.

This one dimensionally, I think we're missing the point.

It's not just solved in an election.

We cannot be.

Well, Joe, thanks for sending in the question.

And I want to give you a little plug.

If anybody wants to find out more about what Calvary Press publishes, you could go to calvarypress

.com, calvarypress .com.

We have a listener in Cork, Ireland, who has

a series of comments and a question.

And I just had it in front of me and I have to look it up again.

It disappeared in front.

Okay, here it is.

We have...

Let me say hello to Joe.

I haven't seen Joe in many, many years.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

Hey, Joe, you heard that?

It's about time for a visit to Cornwall Island from you, Joe.

Mary in Cork, Ireland says, many of us have been very discouraged by the new normal

at church where I attend.

We must wear masks, keep our distance from one another.

My chair is on its own, which reinforces the isolation I feel all week.

We cannot sing, hug or handshake.

Personally, I come away more depressed than I am going in.

The first week was like a funeral.

There is no joy at church.

The word of God is preached and two hymns are played from YouTube and we can sing to ourselves

behind the masks.

I encourage myself in the Lord, but it's not easy.

Many have not returned as they are elderly and afraid of catching the COVID -19.

Others are discouraged by the setup and don't go.

Any suggestions?

It's very depressing.

Yeah, these are very difficult issues.

I know as an eldership, we wrestled with a lot of these.

We opted to not go

extreme.

We took the precautions we have.

Well, I'll just tell you what we've done.

All right, that's all I can do.

I can't, I don't know, you know, her particular circumstances and what the eldership and what

Ireland has said.

What we did was we tried to adhere to the mandates of the government

and we did that.

We've had the building cleaned, sanitized once a week in addition to the...

So we did all of that

because we felt

that we were within the guidelines that he had said, even though he didn't...

Other in the same vein as we were.

Okay, now we're in pretty much compliance with everything, but we're doing pretty much business as usual

with the exception of keeping the distance.

Now, people, what they do, that's up to them.

If they want to hug, let them hug, but we're not encouraging that.

If they want to wear a mask, they can wear a mask.

If they don't, they don't have to.

But we are adhering to the mandates as best as we can, but we have an obligation to

have, you know, to have our worship service.

Now, there comes a point when a government

is actually, in some sense, you might even...

Maybe you can agree or disagree with me.

Is a government forcing a Christian to sin if the

Christian complies with a law that makes him violate a tenet of

Christian worship?

For instance, to tell people, to tell Christians that they cannot sing

in the gathered worship when that is actually a command of the scripture.

Yeah, we would challenge...

I would challenge that.

So you don't think a church should roll over and just obey something like that?

No, I think there comes a...

I have a great deal more respect for John MacArthur and what he's doing out there now.

I mean, I always respected him, but I mean, even more so now.

We discussed it early on, and if things hadn't changed,

I'm convinced that we're following the mandate.

You know, we're in kind of like the last phases, in shape,

whether or not we were going to defy the order and

face a fine and or jail.

And that was a real pun.

Come to that.

Did have the police court

opinion that we were...

And I apologize for calling the police.

I was just trying to keep you...

I was just trying to keep you on your toes.

I didn't mean anything.

I mean, I definitely believe that there comes a point where time

is coming where we're going to have to stand and face possible jail time.

It's a clear command.

If they tell us we can't do that.

By the way, folks, Pastor Rich Jensen just mentioned Grace Community Church, which is

pastored by John MacArthur in Sun Valley, California.

Many of you most likely know that Dr. MacArthur has defied

the orders of the governor to cease and desist from public worship.

And they keep winning court battles, but it seems like those victories in court

continually become overturned and they have lost...

Grace Community Church has lost their parking lot license.

So, I mean, there's all kinds of things going on that requires prayer for them.

But Phil Johnson, who is the executive director of Grace TU Ministries, the media ministry of Dr.

John MacArthur, he's going to be my guest again on Monday, the 7th of September to give us more updates

on this.

So I just thought I'd let you know that.

Thank you so much, Mary, for the excellent personal plea for

help and guidance and counsel during a very sad time in your church's

history.

And we have C .J. in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, who says,

Do you have private times of interaction with the leaders of these churches with whom you share

fellowship that do grapple and have friendly debate in

existence amongst you over those issues where you do disagree, or do you just ignore

them completely?

No, we definitely have some discussions.

And we've got it set up right now where

some months, we were meeting

twice every two months, but we've moved that up to once a month.

And in those times of discussion, we actually start with

the stories that we have

and then we take those back to our churches to pray.

But we do get involved in some discussions.

And if we feel that somebody has overstepped themselves in anything, it's brought up.

You know, we confront each other biblically, not in a negative way.

Confrontation is not a negative thing.

It's to admonish one and it

worked

out extremely well.

My comment earlier was to look at

my church and include other churches that are different and have those differences become the

debating point.

Together, we can advance the kingdom.

We can be the central agreeing point is

the doctrines of grace, because how you preach the gospel, if you don't hold to the grace, you're

going to preach the gospel.

Yes, and obviously the question was more in alignment with what you do privately

with these leaders that you, with whom you share fellowship in these corporate

fellowship gatherings, not what takes place in the corporate gatherings themselves.

Exactly.

And that's where we would keep discussions.

And we do get into some of those discussions.

Great.

Thank you, C .J. and Lennon Hearst, Long Island.

Let's see.

We have Bobby in Hartsdale, New York.

And he says, do you have any suggestions and guidance on how to maintain

a spirit of unity and peace amongst churches that have different theological

opinions on things with whom you share fellowship and be able to do

so honestly and clearly without destroying the friendship and

without becoming contentious and competitive?

Yeah, I think the answer to that is very simple.

One, you have to learn how to treat a brother with respect.

In 1 Corinthians, Paul talks about, you know,

and he talks about, you know, not destroying

the one for whom Christ died.

And I think that's to have some serious doctor

to treat him as a brother in Christ.

And he's somebody for whom Christ has died.

Who am I to castigate somebody in a negative way?

If I have any issues with him, I have to do that in love.

That's what the Apostle Paul says.

Admonish one another in love.

All right.

And this is one of the points which I think is often lost.

Confront one another in love.

That kindness and truth depart from your lips.

Confronting in love.

And if you do things in the right manner, even though he

disagrees with you, you will maintain.

For it has worked.

We haven't had anybody walk away from our fellowship, you know, angry.

And we have had some confrontations and that we're somewhat

different of it because

Harrison and

Mechanicsburg,

Pennsylvania,.

Says how far would somebody have to depart from the so

-called five points of Calvinism before you would end fellowship with

them?

For instance, let's say a pastor loves Charles Spurgeon but happens to disagree with

Spurgeon on limited atonement and might embrace what has become known as Amarillianism.

Is that close enough to maintain a fellowship with that

church?

Uh, it would depend on...

As soon as we start getting to where five points, that would

really depend on the individual.

Again, our goal is not to push people away but to pull as many people in so that we can

fellowship and how they would handle that decision

that would be made by them.

Again, because it's to

bring

people

to highlight the things that we hold together there.

So I have never in my life experienced arrogance from professing Christians.

Liar, liar, pants on fire.

Well, let's clarify a couple of things.

First of all, Charles Spurgeon is not the litmus test for orthodoxy, but it just so happens that your fellowship

is called the Spurgeon Fellowship.

Yeah, that's why I guess the questioner brought him up.

But secondly, you're specifically talking about that fellowship.

I'm sure knowing you, you, you would not restrict or prohibit fellowship with

all non -reformed churches on different occasions.

I mean, even a church that might be evangelical or Arminian, you would find some kind of commonality to

have some kind of brotherly interaction with them, but not in that

specific fellowship that's a more formal gathering.

Yeah, we have one

Calvinist, but he's also dispensational.

He's kind of like a John McArthur.

And we're a

covenant Reformed Baptist,

are by Owen and the Reformed

Baptists, because that's not what we're focusing on.

What we're focusing on here is preaching the gospel and getting up

fine.

And we do that in the other and in the fellowship.

Yes, and you have actually opened up your pulpit to folks such as Dr. Tony Costa,

who is a New Covenant theology advocate.

Yes.

So you do have a much more gracious extension of your

open arms than some people might think on the surface.

Yeah, I mean, the idea is, I mean, because, look, Tony Costa has become a dear friend,

and he would never, knowing where we stand, he would never from the pulpit address an issue,

knowing that there's that respect that he has for

us and we have for him.

And he's welcome in my pulpit anytime he's down here.

In fact, Grace Reformed Baptist Church, your sister church of yours, also a covenantal Reformed Baptist

Church, has appointed a New Covenant theology advocate as the headmaster

of the Grace Christian Academy.

So there is that ecumenical spirit in a right sense, where some

things that are rightly considered serious are not considered so high in the

ladder of importance that they would break down all kinds of fellowship.

Yeah, in fact, that gentleman, who also is a good friend of mine,

he's an elder in one of the churches that is part of our

fellowship.

Right.

It's not brought up.

We want to win,

and if we can partner with churches, I know these men, they're

dedicated, and we need to work together.

We have to go to our final break right now, and if anybody wants to join us, the question of your own,

I highly suggest you send in the question fairly quickly because we're rapidly running out of time.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Pastor Rich Jensen, right after these messages from our sponsor.

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We're back and we have a question from a very faithful and loyal

listener and financial supporter of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina.

He says, Greetings, brothers.

I believe as we face more persecution in America that the wolves will separate from the sheep

and we'll see the true church start spending more time together, even though we may have minor differences.

Do you think this is where we're headed?

I would agree.

I think we are headed that way.

I think we're seeing it.

When the church is in trouble, it definitely is purified.

We saw that in China.

We've seen it in, you know, the former Soviet Union, that when persecution comes,

some of the, you know, fall by the wayside.

And the church is purified and comes out stronger in the end.

If you're a student of history, you know, that's the truth.

Nobody likes what they did

many times.

And I'm not talking just that we're seeing nationwide and

the rhetoric that is sent

to churches.

This is not, you know.

And might I add an adjective that I think you would agree with me adding.

When Grady asked about minor differences and you, in response, used the word minor,

you're speaking of comparatively minor, lest the really theological,

what's the word I'm looking for, anal -retentive folks among us, but even those that

just have a healthy view of the importance of our theological differences.

We don't mean that they're minor in and of themselves.

We mean that they're minor comparatively.

Like, for instance, we might even say that the issue of credo versus pedo -baptism is a

comparatively minor difference, but it's not minor.

No.

In fact, I would definitely say it's not a minor issue.

And that's an interesting one, and I'm glad you brought that up, because there's a perfect example.

I mean, us and the Presbyterian, Reformed Baptists and Presbyterians, in the United States

today, there's

conferences.

It's not at all unusual to have, you know, pedo -baptism.

And you find the affection between us is great because we are both covenant, you know, not only

Calvinist, but covenant in our theology.

And yes, we have—baptism is a major issue, all right?

I don't even think it's a minor.

I think it's a major issue.

And a tremendous—we can worship together, all right?

And—.

But no, I think that's an excellent example of how it can even be somewhat of a major issue, and yet we can

still—.

And exchange pulpits.

In fact, if I was to have to move someplace, and there were no Reformed

Baptist churches and there was a good, solid, like an OPC church, I would—that's where I would attend.

And the same would be for me, and I would include in that, if there

were only Reformed Baptist churches or a Reformed Baptist church that was cold

as ice and had an authoritarian dictatorship in eldership,

and I had the choice between that or an Admiraldian church that had a pastor or

pastors with the true hearts of shepherds, I would be going to the latter.

Congregation.

Yeah.

Well, I want you to have about three minutes of uninterrupted time to summarize what you most want

etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today about this topic.

Okay.

I don't know if it'll take three minutes, but I can give you just some thoughts.

I think we need to keep in mind Augustine said it, and it has been repeated over and over again, but I think it bears

on us.

In the essentials, unity.

In the nonessentials, liberty.

And in all things, charity.

And I think that's just such a great quotation, and we need to keep it in mind.

Sometimes we just focus too much on the unity and the essentials, and we're not focused on the

liberty.

We have freedom in Christ, you know?

And the other thing that I would just like to close with is don't ever forget

peacemakers.

And just

being...

Well, praise God.

It's been such a joy having you back on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I definitely want you back very

soon again, and very often.

And I just want to remind our listeners, if you want to find out more information about Hope Reformed Baptist Church

of Coram, Long Island, New York, go to hopereformedli .net.

Hope Reformed L -I, which stands for Long Island, dot net.

Also, folks, please do not forget about our interview tomorrow with Dr.

Jason Lyle, a Christian astrophysicist and popular speaker and author and founder of

Biblical Science Institute, who's going to be discussing his book, Taking Back Astronomy.

That's tomorrow, Friday, the 4th of September, between 4 and 6 p .m. Eastern Time.

And tell all of your friends and loved ones, especially if they love science, I would strongly suggest you

tell the lost that you know, who perhaps think that we who are Christians are all

a bunch of morons, and that there are no such things as academically brilliant

Christian scientists.

And, of course, I have to pause between those two words, because Christian science is a cult, but

Christians who are scientists is a better way of phrasing it.

So, tune in tomorrow, Friday, September 4th, 4 to 6 p .m. Eastern, for our interview, our very first

interview ever with Dr. Jason Lyle on Taking Back Astronomy.

I want to thank everybody who listened today.

I want to remind you to give as frequently and as generously as you can to Iron Trip and Zion Radio during the

midst of our really huge financial crisis.

At IronTripandZionRadio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now.

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I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.