September 3, 2020 Show with Rich Jensen on “The Strong Benefits of Fellowship Between Like-Minded Congregations in the Midst of a Regional, National or Global Crisis”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation, to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions, and now here's your host,

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Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this third day of September, 2020.

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And there's nothing I like more than interviewing somebody that is not only a very biblically literate and biblically wise and dear

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Christian brother, but on top of that, somebody who's also a very close longtime friend.

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And my guest today would be all of those things. He is one of my dearest friends, somebody who has truly been with me through thick and thin.

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He's been with me as a comrade -in -arms, as it were, in the spiritual realm, and a friend and a counselor and shepherd, although he's never been officially my pastor, he has certainly filled that role at times in my life.

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And I am speaking of none other than Rich Jensen, who's pastor of Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York, which is also a place

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I consider my home away from home when I visit Long Island. And today, we are going to be addressing the strong benefits of fellowship between like -minded churches in the midst of a regional, national, or global crisis.

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And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Honor Chopper and Zion Radio, Pastor Rich Jensen. Good afternoon,

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Chris. It's good to be back with you again. Praise God. It's great to have you back, brother. And before we go into the theme at hand, for the sake of our listeners who might be new, they're not hearing your ads every day, because they're hearing you for the first time.

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They haven't heard any of your previous interviews with us. Tell us about Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York.

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Sure. Hope Reform Baptist was founded back in 1996, and we have just recently moved into our new facility, permanent home now.

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We're no longer renting, but have a beautiful campus -style facility here in Coram.

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We're a 1689 confessional church, and looking to advance the kingdom of God here in Long Island.

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And if anybody wants more information about Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York, you could go to hopereformedli .net.

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That's hopereformedli, for LongIsland .net. Well, this pandemic, this coronavirus, has certainly done a lot of damage globally, and I think the damage that has been done has been primarily, and I think obviously, far more in the realm of businesses being shut down unnecessarily for a prolonged period of time, and churches being shut down for a prolonged period of time.

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But thankfully, many churches refused to close permanently, and when it was impossible to all in one public sanctuary, they had home meetings and other things, and one such church is

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Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York. But, Pastor Rich, I understand that you have learned something, even though you always knew it, because of your gregarious and even aggressive nature involving getting

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Hope Reform Baptist Church to be more than an isolated church or an island unto itself.

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You have always been known to be somebody that wanted your congregation to be interacting and fellowshipping with and cooperating with other like -minded churches.

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Not churches that are necessarily exactly as you are. They're not all confessional churches.

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They're not all on every jot and tittle Reform Baptist churches, but those that have, for the most part, a like -minded mission, a like -minded theology at the core of it, at the very least.

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And so, tell us about how this coronavirus pandemic even heightened that reality of the benefits of fellowship between like -minded congregations.

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Sure. Well, it was a number of years ago, probably four, five, maybe even six years ago now, that we started a

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Long Island Spurgeon Fellowship. And the idea behind that fellowship was to band together and use the various strengths of each of the churches that are committed to doing this to advance the

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Kingdom of God and in the realm of having conferences together and doing ministry together.

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We're a very active church. During the summer, the night, well, spring through the fall, we do send evangelistic teams out onto the streets.

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We do have a pro -life ministry where we have people standing in front of abortion mills and convincing these young ladies not to kill their unborn children.

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And we have ministries of mercy. So, you know, we're very active in those realms.

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But we're just one small church. We're still a relatively small congregation. And so the thought was if we can get some of the pastors together and get the churches together who are somewhat like -minded, and basically it's very – we're trying to be as inclusive as possible, not as exclusive as possible.

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And so we're looking around pastors who teach the doctrines of grace, and that's pretty much it.

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If we can be centered just around that, what we consider to be the true gospel, you know, we don't have to do a lot of things together, but using the strengths of individual churches where we have talks going on about possibly starting another classical

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Christian school, holding more conferences. In fact, we had one of your frequent guests,

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Gary DeMar, was scheduled to be here for a conference. But the pandemic hit, and that put a kibosh on that for the time being.

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But that's basically, you know, the foundation for what we're doing.

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When the pandemic hit, we just recognized that the importance of fellowship, good

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Christian fellowship, is often overlooked, you know, in the church.

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You know, forget the pandemic aspect of it, but just in general, not everybody takes advantage of Christian fellowship.

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And one of the things that we've seen in our church was we instituted many years ago having a lunchtime meal together on Sundays, besides planning other things of that same nature.

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And that has just tremendously impacted the church, you know, in the unity, etc.

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And so we recognized one of the reasons why we started the

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Spurgeon Foundation was if we can take churches who are like -minded in how the gospel should be preached, we can utilize the strength of each individual church, plus also you open up fellowship.

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For example, our teams that go down to the streets in the summertime, we have now partnered with another church who is even closer to the lower

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Port Jefferson. And some of their members come out, and we're doing that together. Same thing with the abortion ministry.

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You know, we're going down with other churches. So that's kind of what happened behind the scenes, so to speak.

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Then the pandemic hits, and it seemed like everybody was being cut off. And as we kept in touch with the pastors via telephone, they were all saying the same thing, how this has really hindered the growth in the church and the unity in the church when you're not together enjoying that Christian fellowship.

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And a lot of people don't even realize that fellowship itself is a means of grace and is necessary for strengthening an individual believer, for strengthening the church in general, and banding the churches together.

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So that's just given us a renewed impetus to have an association like the

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Spurgeon Fellowship, where we can accomplish things for the kingdom of God together.

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And I think this topic today might be especially needed for like -minded churches that are more identical, although not completely identical.

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I don't think I've ever been in a Reformed Baptist church where every person in the same congregation agrees on everything. But Reformed Baptist churches, although we may like to have ties and interaction and communication and fellowship with other confessional

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Reformed Baptist churches all over the world, Reformed Baptist churches aren't exactly known, and I don't say this as a positive thing, we're not exactly known as a group of folks whose churches have a lot of interaction with the local churches that surround them, those that are within an hour drive or less, especially when there are differences, especially when not every jot and tittle is the same involving covenant theology, involving the

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Sabbath, involving the confession. And that's one of the reasons I actually think what you do is a breath of fresh air, because I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, and you could obviously, since you're my guest, put your two cents in here, but I think that Christians personally, individually, and churches as corporate bodies are harmed when they have little to no interaction with people that have disagreements with them.

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And I'm not endorsing modern ecumenism, where we are linking arms with people that deny the gospel, where we are, as much as I love

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Roman Catholics, are linking arms with Roman Catholics who officially and dogmatically deny the gospel, and with liberals on the other end of the spectrum who are total apostates who support abortion and same -sex marriage and homosexual activity and who deny the pillars of the faith.

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But there are a multitude of brethren out there who agree with us on the core things and on a lot of things, but are not necessarily in the so -called camp of confessional

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Reformed Baptists. And I think that we do ourselves a disservice, and them a disservice, when there is no interaction, because not only can we be a great source of guiding our fellow

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Christians and non -Reformed churches in the area to deeper truths, but we can learn from them, because I think that many, if not most, theological camps or denominations or fellowships have blind spots.

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And just pick up where I left off there. Maybe you disagree with me on some of what I said, or maybe you agree completely.

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I don't know. No, I'm in general agreement with you. I think we have to be careful.

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I mean, there is an association or a fellowship of evangelical ministers in Suffolk County, and I haven't been a part of that for a number of years, because of it's so diverse that it was difficult for me to have any input to it where people would even want to listen to me anyway.

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So that's why this New Spurgeon Fellowship is meant for this centralizing point that we all have to agree with is the doctrines of grace, because our belief is that if you're not preaching the doctrines of grace, you're not preaching the true gospel.

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And so I think we can center around that, and hopefully we can leave some of the peripherals aside.

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I mean, even, for example, take eschatology. I mean, in my church alone we have three... there's three different views of eschatology.

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I mean, there is a predominant one, but there are, in fact, three different views, and it works.

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Everybody gets along together. It's not a point that should be, you know, dividing us, and there are several issues, you know, as well.

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But so that's why we're focusing solely around the preaching of the gospel. You know, the

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Great Commission, you know, that's the focus of the church, should be to advance the kingdom of God, make disciples of all the nations.

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And we can partner with a lot of churches that we might have some doctrinal differences, you know.

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For example, being a confessional, a 1689 London Baptist Confession Church, we hold to the

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Christian Sabbath, you know, and we hold to it very strongly. We preach it from the pulpit. We observe it. In fact, we structure our

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Sabbath day to aid our families in keeping the day holy all day long.

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That's why we start with a bagel fellowship about 9 o 'clock in the morning. Then we have our

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Sunday school. Then we have the morning worship service. Then we have a fellowship meal.

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Then we either have a nursing home ministry, which unfortunately that was put on hold because of the virus, or send teams out, or we have an afternoon service.

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And by the time we leave here, it's 4 or 5 o 'clock at night. So people can actually come here and wind up participating and fellowshipping and worshipping pretty much all day long, which is an aid to keeping the

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Sabbath day holy. Now, not everybody in this virgin fellowship believes in that. You know, we have some churches that don't hold that it's the

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Christian Sabbath and all. But we can put those differences aside because we're not technically worshipping together on the

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Sabbath day anyway. But they have the same view of the gospel that we do. And we can work together for that purpose.

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Amen. Now, obviously, it's clear that individuals need fellowship with other

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Christians. In fact, we are commanded in the Scriptures not to forsake the assembly of the brethren.

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We're commanded to be under the authority of local elders. But what is important about churches having fellowship with other churches?

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Well, you know, churches take on characteristics just like individuals do. I mean, you wouldn't want cookie -cutter people sitting in your congregation.

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I mean, as I look over my congregation, we have such a wide variety of people, personalities, ethnicities, you know, those type of things.

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In fact, if you look at our congregation, it looks like a little mini -United Nations. I mean, there's just so many different ethnicities involved.

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The United Nations without the communism? I'm sorry, I missed that. I said the

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United Nations without the communism. Without the communism, yes. So, I mean, you wouldn't want – well, you know, there's an old saying, if two people agree on everything, one of them is unnecessary.

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And so you want differing views on different things, and that's the title of your show,

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Iron Sharpens Iron. Iron Sharpens Iron means that you're going to have some disagreements, and you work through them.

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Well, just as in a local congregation, that's true. You have the same thing happening in the larger body of Christ with local churches.

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Each local church is not a cookie -cutter of the other ones. So each church doesn't necessarily have the same primary ministries.

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Of course, I mean, the gospel worship services is central to all of them. But one church may have the ability to hold a

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Christian school. Another one may have a large ministry of mercy. You know, you might have one that has people who have the gift of evangelism, and you can't hold them back.

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They want to be out on the streets. And so each one is a little bit different, so we can build on all of our strengths as we unite together, you know.

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Some churches are small, and they only have one elder, and they don't – maybe they don't even have another gifted brother.

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A church like mine, we're really blessed. I mean, I have three elders and five deacons, and so many of them have the gift of preaching.

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In fact, we have some men who are not even office bearers who have been given the gift of preaching and teaching.

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And they're able to go out and speak in other churches to help them out if their pastor needs a pulpit supply for a day.

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So that's one of the benefits of this as well, is knowing your neighbors, and you're working for the same goal, and you can work together to accomplish that.

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Yes, I think that this is a healthy biblical response to denominationalism.

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As a Baptist, and I believe that you would agree with me being a Baptist yourself,

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I believe in the local independence and autonomy of a local congregation, where the authority goes no farther than the local elders of those congregations, with the exception, of course, being the inerrant

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Word of God and God Himself. But we don't see there existing in the

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Bible any hierarchical structure for a denomination. So this is a way where you can have the benefits of a denomination without having the baggage of a denomination.

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I mean, there have been denominations that began as biblically faithful, and who were, even though congregations might have differed on lesser important things, they were flourishing for quite a long time, over a century in some cases.

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And then when corruption came in, because of the tight connection of those churches that I believe exceeded biblical tightness, and because of the hierarchical structure of authority, where you have boards and presbyteries and other things that loom above all of the congregations in that denomination, you've had an entire collapse of denominations that have been totally destroyed by liberalism and apostasy.

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Whereas if you are an independent and autonomous church, once something like that begins to creep into the practice and belief of a church with whom you are having fellowship, you just warn them and cut the fellowship off without any other unnecessary harmful baggage.

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In the case of a denomination, a church will very often lose its own building and property because of serious division over theology.

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So, am I making sense here? Yeah, and I couldn't agree with you more. Our good friend

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Jim Renahan wrote a book a while back called Associations, Not Denominations, and I support the premise of that book strongly.

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I do believe in associations, even within like Reformed Baptist Circles.

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We have been a part of an association in the past. We're not any longer for reasons

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I don't want to go into here, but our church is certainly open to belonging to another association that would be centered around the 1689, a

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Reformed Baptist Association. The problem with that is that if you go nationwide, there's quite a few

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Reformed Baptist, confessional Reformed Baptist churches, but locally on Long Island, for example, there's only two churches that you can call confessional churches.

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Two churches doesn't really make much of an association. That's why I think some of these regional associations that are looser in what the requirements are to be part of that association.

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In fact, we don't even call it an association, we call it a fellowship. There's no dues, there's nothing like that, there's no real structure.

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It's just a group of pastors, elders from those churches getting together and working together for the kingdom of God.

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We've got to be able to do that, even in a less formal setting. Again, I have no problem with a formal association, but that's not always practical.

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What can I do with the church in Los Angeles, California?

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Very little I can do with them. In fact, the church that we're associated with here on Long Island is in Merrick.

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We're still 50 miles apart. It's even difficult for us to get together and do things.

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So we're finding that this local fellowship of churches has a great deal of promise to it.

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It seems to be getting more and more interest from some of the other local pastors.

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Now, how specifically are there great benefits, strong benefits to this practice when we are faced with a global crisis such as the coronavirus crisis, which

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I think has become far more of a crisis than it needed to be. I'm not trying to undermine the seriousness of the coronavirus and trying to pretend that it is not serious at all.

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But I think that governments and political leaders have really exaggerated the dangers of this to the point where the governments themselves became far more dangerous than the virus.

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But if you could, how has this specifically been of benefit during the coronavirus pandemic?

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Well, during the pandemic, again, we weren't meeting as an associate, as a fellowship, but we were in contact with each other quite a few times lending support and ideas like, what can we do to respond to this?

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How can we be faithful to our commission as a church to worship, to study, to have

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Christian fellowship, and yet not come in conflict with the government?

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And here in New York, the government has gotten very, very aggressive in their trying to regulate what you can do and what you can't do.

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So we were speaking with one another and encouraging one another and discussing things as to what you can do and what you can't do.

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And that was a great benefit because we're all under the same government here. And we were even at one point considering, you know, can we band together?

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Do we take legal action? You know, things like that came into play.

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Fortunately for us at Hope, because we had recently bought, you know, a fairly large facility for the size of our church, we've been able to fit the mandate of socially distancing, you know, when they opened it up for us.

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And so, I mean, if anybody came and checked, you would see that, you know, we have done everything that we can and with the social distancing and all.

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So, and we've tried to adhere to that as best we can. But there was just the encouragement and strength in talking to one another, knowing that you're not just alone in this whole nonsense.

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Oh, I'm sorry, pandemic. No, no, one of... One thing that always puzzled me is why is it that even before the coronavirus became known as a pandemic, why is it that every time

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I visited Hope, people socially distanced from me? It's just good taste.

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Of course, I kid. But we have to go to our first break right now. If anybody wants to join us for the question of your own, send an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

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C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. If you hear what you think is static in the background, that's not static.

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That's actually the rumble of rain on the window of my studio because it's pouring out there.

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So hopefully we're not going to lose power. If we do, you'll understand why. It's quite a torrential storm out there.

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But, as I said, if you want to join us for the question, if God is kind enough to us to prevent us from losing power, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

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C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

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I'm Pastor Nate Pickowitz of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmanton Iron Works, New Hampshire, and the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and the

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Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak, and have grown to love.

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Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.

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It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God, like the dear saints at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Coram, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word, and to enthusiastically proclaim

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Christ Jesus the King, and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.

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I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation, and receive the blessing of being showered by their love, as I have.

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For more information on Hope Reformed Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net,

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that's hopereformedli .net, or call 631 -696 -5711.

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That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York, that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

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Good to be back. Chris, I always enjoy our time here. I have to tell you, you're one of the better interviewers out there, and I've been doing this for more than 30 years.

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Wow, that's some compliment. How much do I owe you for that? You don't have to owe me anything.

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This is Chris Barnes and if you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours with a little less than 90 minutes to go is

40:26

Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York.

40:32

We are discussing the strong benefits of fellowship between congregations in the midst of a regional, national or global crisis especially.

40:42

And our email address if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

40:49

chrisarnson at gmail .com. We have an anonymous listener, Pastor Rich, who has a question.

40:56

In our day and age, it is quite common to find Calvinists amongst

41:03

Charismatic and Pentecostal churches, although they certainly would make up a minority of those groups.

41:10

Having said that, they are still found and I was wondering if you extend your fellowships to such churches and if they are permitted to ever act upon their views of the signed gifts during gathered worship with your other churches in the fellowship.

41:30

Okay, we haven't experienced that at this point. As it stands right now, there are no

41:38

Charismatic Calvinists that are part of the fellowship. We would not necessarily exclude them.

41:45

In fact, my good friend who departed Alstine a number of years ago and is sorely missed by everyone was an

41:54

Assemblies of God Pastor who held to the doctrines of grace and he himself participated in several of our conferences that we were a part of.

42:09

In fact, those were hosted by Word of Truth Church, you know, Bruce Bennett's church, but we were a part of that and he was invited to be part of that and there was no issues with him whatsoever.

42:22

It would depend, I think, on the individual. If somebody would be coming and insisting that they do a...

42:33

Yeah, all right, let me start over. You just started speaking in tongues. Yeah, it just came over me all of a sudden.

42:43

Now, if they insisted on practicing something that they know would be divisive, that would be a bar from fellowship, you know.

42:50

I mean, there comes a point where you would have to, you know, give up certain things and that would be one of them because obviously as 1689

43:00

Church we are cessationist in our view of the signed gifts.

43:07

And when you say you don't have any charismatic churches who are a part of your fellowship, excuse me,

43:17

I believe what you mean by that is you don't have any full -blown

43:22

Pentecostal or charismatic churches that are identified that way.

43:29

But, excuse me, I don't know where this clogged throat is coming from. You do have non -cessationist churches, or at least one that is involved in the fellowship.

43:38

Yes, yes. But that has been discussed and that individual would never, you know, condone practicing something like that in a combined fellowship because that would just, something like that would be a bar to the unity of the

43:55

Church. Yes, that would be an intentional infringement upon the intent of the gathering.

44:02

Yeah. And, of course, unless it was agreed upon as some kind of interactive discussion or debate, you would not have a gathering like this that included paedo -baptist churches and then start slamming credo -baptism or baptism only for repentant believers in their midst during those gatherings because that would be also another way of really snubbing your nose at our brothers over issues that are not a part of the reason that these fellowship gatherings exist.

44:42

Yeah, the purpose of reaching out and having fellowship with some similar like -minded churches is to promote unity and promote the

44:53

Gospel. We would never choose a topic that would cause division, you know.

45:02

In other words, we might have different views. Let me just throw out eschatology again. But I would rather not have our

45:09

Spurgeon Fellowship sponsor a topic on, you know, what's your view of the end times because people are going to be focusing on the differences that we have and it could, you know, ruffle some feathers depending on what you say.

45:26

And that's not the purpose. The purpose is to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Of course, that includes an end -times view, but we're just talking about, you know, basically the five points.

45:37

And if we can do that, get the Gospel out, then people can make their choices as to where they want to attend church.

45:44

Now, of course, that you're speaking solely in the realm of these fellowship gatherings because your church, you would freely speak on, teach on, and preach on eschatology.

45:57

In fact, as you already mentioned, you invited Gary DeMar to speak at Hope Reform Baptist Church and it was only postponed because of the

46:05

COVID virus restrictions at the time. Yes. And Gary DeMar certainly is going to be clear about his post -millennialism.

46:14

Oh, is that what he is? Ha, ha, ha. Well, for those of our listeners who don't know,

46:19

Pastor Rich Jensen is a thoroughgoing post -millennialist. And so is his, at least one of his co -elders,

46:27

Christopher McDowell is. I don't know what Anthony is. Has Anthony come down on a position? Anthony Uvino? Yeah, there's a unity in the eldership.

46:35

Oh, okay, so Anthony Uvino is also a post -millennialist. I believe he is, yes.

46:41

Okay, I'll send him a get well soon card. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

46:47

Just kidding. I'm actually very thrilled that Anthony has joined your eldership. Don't worry, he's getting better.

46:55

Ha, ha, ha, ha. He's been a dear friend for years and so glad that his gifts have been recognized by you and that he's been given,

47:04

I mean, I was waiting for years for him to join a good, solid church like Hope. And I'm so glad that he's in that church now.

47:11

Yeah, he has been a tremendous blessing to the entire congregation. And, you know, again, the

47:17

Lord has really blessed him. Okay, we have another question that is not far from what we were just discussing.

47:24

John in Bangor, Maine asks, I know that you have invited Gary DeMar to speak at your church because of previous interviews

47:32

I've heard with members of your church. I was wondering if Hope Reformed Baptist Church is theonomic officially or do you just have some leanings that way?

47:45

Well, again, there are different views within the church. Being a confessional church, all right, the 1689 is the official statement and on the law of God, the confession is very clear, is that the

48:03

Old Testament law and its general equity is still relevant for today.

48:09

And so that, you know, you can take a theonomic viewpoint from that and it may not go far enough for certain theonomists, but that's our view of the law and that's what we would hold officially.

48:23

You may talk to different individuals within the church. They might have varying degrees of theonomic leanings or some who are not theonomic at all, but that's the official document that we hold to.

48:35

Yes, and so you would clearly, it would be an issue that would not prohibit somebody becoming a member being for or against, depending upon the extreme level of vociferousness one might have.

48:55

Obviously, if somebody is militant in opposition to theonomy, you wouldn't want, that would be an uncomfortable situation for them to be a member.

49:03

And perhaps even somebody who is overbearing in the other direction, making others feel less Christian if they did not adopt theonomic views and Christian Reconstructionist views.

49:15

Yeah, and again, because the official view, and this is one of the benefits of being a confessional church, is you go back to the confession as to what we believe that the

49:27

Scripture teaches. And again, now certain things are open to a certain amount of interpretation.

49:34

What does the general equity mean by the law of God? But clearly we hold to a tripartite view of the law.

49:40

You know, the moral law is binding forever and ever, has always been. Ceremonial law was fulfilled in Christ and is no longer to be practiced.

49:50

And the general equity of the Old Testament civil laws. And in fact, I like what Gary North calls them.

49:56

He refers to them as case laws. And having a law enforcement background, I think that's an excellent way of putting forth what those laws are.

50:04

How do you apply the moral law to our society today? Go back and look at how it was applied inspirationally by the

50:12

Holy Spirit to Old Testament Israel. I mean, we would have to be foolish not to look at that and say, all right, this is how you apply the

50:20

Ten Commandments to our society today. And you've revealed that the 1689

50:26

London Baptist Confession is brief enough that there is liberty for disagreement on issues, and it's also detailed enough where the law and its use makes it distinct from other sovereign grace -believing

50:46

Calvinists. Like, for instance, as you know full well, there would be a tiny, at least in the 21st century, a tiny minority of 1689 confessional churches that were theonomic, especially in any kind of an official capacity.

51:08

Yeah, you're absolutely right. It would definitely be a minority. But that didn't prohibit us from having great fellowship with 1689 churches, not only in this country, but in other countries, and gathering at conferences and things like that.

51:27

And that has never been an issue. And I think part of that is because Reformed Baptists themselves are such a minority that you don't want to kick off your best friend on an issue like that.

51:46

Right. And we actually have to go to our midway break right now. This is the longer -than -normal break, folks, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

51:56

FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of our show because they have to, by FCC regulations, localize

52:04

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio to Lake City, Florida by airing their own public service announcements and other announcements during this break.

52:12

So please be patient with us, but also make good use of this time by writing down information provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them.

52:23

Remember, folks, Iron Sharpens Iron Radio cannot exist without our advertisers, which include

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Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Coral and Long Island, New York. We need the financial support of these advertisers to remain on the air, and therefore these advertisers are most likely going to keep renewing their contracts with us if they know that you are responding to them in some capacity, even just to thank them for their support of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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But please write down as much of the information as you can provided by our advertisers and respond to our advertisers as much as you can.

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But also write down questions for Rich Jensen on the cooperation and fellowship of congregations and send those questions to chrisarnson at gmail .com

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53:20

USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

53:25

Don't go away. We're going to be right back after these messages with more of Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Coral and Long Island, New York in our discussion on the strong benefits of fellowship between like -minded churches, especially in the midst of a regional, national, or global crisis.

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James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries from the Dividing Line webcast here. Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach, preach, and debate at numerous venues, some of my very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with Pastor Rich Jensen and the brethren at Hope Reform Baptist Church, now located at their new, beautiful facilities in Coram, Long Island, New York.

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I've had the privilege of opening God's Word from their pulpit on many occasions, have led youth retreats for them, and have always been thrilled to see their members filling many seats at my

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I also want to congratulate Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram for their recent appointment with Pastor Rich Jensen's co -elder,

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That's hopereformedli .net, or call 631 -696 -5711.

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First of all, please mark your calendars and email, text, call, and however else you communicate with those whom you love, and tell them, especially if they have a fascination and great interest in science, and perhaps even more specifically, astronomy, tell them to tune in tomorrow, that's

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So mark that down on your calendar, put it on your refrigerator, put it on your screen of your laptop and your computer, or wherever else that you won't forget, that tomorrow,

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Friday, September 4th, 4 to 6 p .m. Eastern Time, Dr. Jason Lyle will be our guest on Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

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01:14:55

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01:15:16

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01:15:33

Providing for IronTripandZionRadio is not obviously a command of God, but if you're financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands, providing for church and home, and you have extra money, perhaps you have a lot of extra money because you have not been going during this pandemic, you've not been going to the movies, you've not been going out to fine dining, you have not been going to concerts, you have not been going to the theater to see theatrical performances and plays, you haven't been going to Bible conferences, you haven't been doing a lot of things that you used to do because they have been shut down because of the quarantining, so you have extra money that you didn't spend on those things that you love to do.

01:16:15

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01:17:12

Also folks, if you are not a member of a Bible -believing church, I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world, and I've helped people find churches, very often, that were just minutes away from where they live, and they didn't even know they existed, in all parts of the planet

01:17:29

Earth. So if that is you, please send me an email at ChrisArnsInItGmail .com

01:17:34

and put, I need a church in the subject line. I'll be, God willing, able to help you find a church, or perhaps a church where you are visiting on vacation, or a church for your family, friends, and loved ones who do not have a church home.

01:17:49

I have lists, as I said, all over the world of good, solid, biblically faithful churches, and I may be able to help you.

01:17:54

That's ChrisArnsInItGmail .com, and put, I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York, and as I said, we are discussing the strong benefits of fellowship between like -minded churches, especially during the midst of a regional, global, or national crisis like we are experiencing with the coronavirus pandemic, largely due to hysteria, and that is quite tragic.

01:18:33

So send in those questions, and we do have a question, actually, from a mutual friend in Greenville, South Carolina, Joe Bianchi, who has been a guest on this show.

01:18:46

He also is a dear, close friend, especially enjoying a friendship with me face -to -face, almost daily, in fact, pretty much daily, when we shared office space in Calvary Baptist Church of Amityville years ago, where Calvary Press was born, but he is the president of Calvary Press Publishing in Greenville, South Carolina now, and Joe's question is,

01:19:13

Is the lack of doctrinal teaching and worldly fellowship especially hurting the churches during the pandemic?

01:19:22

That's an interesting question because I think those things hurt the church all the time, but is there any reason why the pandemic would make that even more of a destructive force or those more of destructive forces?

01:19:37

Yeah, I mean, I think Joe's question is right on target, and I think we have seen a lack of the churches stepping up and doing the things they're supposed to.

01:19:51

Some churches are just doing, you know, live streaming, and you're missing the whole dynamic of what it means to be assembling together, and I think a lot of churches have gone like into almost like a second -gear mode, you know, they're not going full -out because they don't have the congregations together, and this question actually leads into what

01:20:17

I was, I had a couple of thoughts I wanted to put out. One of the things I just want to mention is fellowship is a means of grace, but it's only one of the means of grace, and I didn't want to give anybody the impression that, you know, forming a local fellowship of churches and having fellowship that way is the answer to all of the church's problems.

01:20:40

I mean, Acts 242, you know, they were continually devoting themselves to the apostles' teaching, to fellowship, to breaking bread, and to prayer.

01:20:50

I mean, there are numerous means of grace which the church is not availing itself of.

01:20:55

If you're not meeting in person, you're not celebrating the Lord's Supper, which also is a means of grace, and I think one of the things that we have to really keep in mind is that behind all of this, all right, just look at what is happening to the church, all right?

01:21:16

Churches are not meeting, people are getting discouraged, I know the secular world is talking about how many people have to go to psychologists because there's mental issues involved, there's emotional issues involved.

01:21:31

Well, Christians aren't exempt from those things. The only thing is, the difference is that, you know, we get encouraged, we get strong by the fellowship, by the preaching of the

01:21:40

Word, in participating in the means of grace, and if that's not taking place, then the church is hurting.

01:21:48

Behind all of this, we have to always remember that we are in spiritual warfare, okay?

01:21:55

And while we may be fighting government overreach, I don't think anybody who's in their right mind can't look at what's happening and say, boy, the government is really reaching.

01:22:06

I mean, where they can actually determine, you can open your business, but you can't. They're deciding who has the right to have a livelihood, and who doesn't.

01:22:15

And sometimes it's on frivolous criteria, and that's a serious thing.

01:22:25

I want you to just think about something. When we got involved with the terrorist attacks, especially here in the

01:22:35

United States, you know, the Twin Towers and a couple of the others, we have laws that have been enacted that they might not even be laws, they're acts, and et cetera, and the executive orders that have really stripped us of liberties in this country.

01:22:52

Now, in the name of a pandemic, that has gone even further. There's even this idea of tracking, and then people being tracked about where they go, what are they doing, are you violating the governor's mandate, and things like that.

01:23:10

That affects the church, and we always have to remember that behind that, you may point your finger at your politician you hate the most, but behind that, it's spiritual warfare.

01:23:24

And we have to fight spiritual warfare as spiritual warfare, otherwise we're missing the whole point.

01:23:34

Paul makes a big point of that in Ephesians chapter 6, talking about, you know, putting on the whole armor of God. The armor of God is not something just to be dragged out at Sunday school and VBS programs.

01:23:45

I mean, that was meant for adults, not just for kids. And the metaphor that he uses is perfect.

01:23:52

You know, if you're going to fight spiritual warfare, you've got to use spiritual weapons. And he could tell us the same thing in Romans 12, you know, talking about being not overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

01:24:04

And so we always have to keep that in mind, that that's what's behind it. That's why the church must find ways to meet, to have fellowship, to administer the sacraments, and to do the things that we're commanded by God to do.

01:24:23

We can't put church on hold, because then you're resting, or you're idling, in the middle of a battle.

01:24:31

And we need to take, I think, one of my favorite Old Testament books is the book of Nehemiah.

01:24:38

And Nehemiah, I think, is the example that he gives in repairing the walls of Jerusalem, I mean, rebuilding the walls, is a perfect spiritual metaphor for us building the walls of the church.

01:24:54

And I mean, what did he do? He used a sword and a trowel. I mean, they had a trowel in one hand and a sword in the other.

01:24:59

They were repairing the walls while keeping guard. And the book of Nehemiah is just a tremendous example of how we should be viewing what we're doing.

01:25:11

If we're only looking at this one -dimensionally, I think we're missing the point. It's not just, and it's not going to be solved in an election, you know.

01:25:21

Regardless of what the election is, the church's mandate is still clear. And we have to advance the kingdom of God and make disciples of the nations.

01:25:28

And we cannot, we cannot rest, we cannot be idle in this fight, or we will be set back.

01:25:37

And then it's to our detriment. Well, Joe, thanks for sending in the question, and I want to give you a little plug if anybody wants to find out more about what

01:25:47

Calvary Press publishes. You could go to calvarypress .com, calvarypress .com. We have a listener in Cork, Ireland, who has a series of comments and a question.

01:26:03

And I just had it in front of me, and I have to look it up again, and it disappeared in front of me. Okay, here it is. Meanwhile, let me say hello to Joe.

01:26:10

I haven't seen Joe in many, many years. Oh, wow. Okay. Hey, Joe, you heard that? It's about time for a visit to Cornwall Island from you,

01:26:18

Joe. Mary in Cork, Ireland, says, many of us have been very discouraged by the new normal at church where I attend.

01:26:28

We must wear masks, keep our distance from one another. My chair is on its own, which reinforces the isolation

01:26:35

I feel all week. We cannot sing, hug, or handshake. Personally, I come away more depressed than I am going in.

01:26:44

The first week was like a funeral. There is no joy at church. The Word of God is preached, and two hymns are played from YouTube, and we can sing to ourselves behind the masks.

01:26:55

I encourage myself in the Lord, but it's not easy. Many have not returned, as they are elderly and afraid of catching the

01:27:03

COVID -19. Others are discouraged by the setup and don't go. Any suggestions?

01:27:09

It's very depressing. Yeah. These are very difficult issues.

01:27:14

I know as an eldership, we wrestled with a lot of these. We opted to not go extreme.

01:27:25

We took the precautions we have. I'll just tell you what we've done. All right?

01:27:30

That's all I can do. I don't know her particular circumstances and what the eldership and what

01:27:36

Ireland has said. What we did was we tried to adhere to the mandates of the governor.

01:27:46

We did that by installing Purell stations at every entrance, moving the seats apart a little bit so we could social distance.

01:27:56

We've had the building cleaned, sanitized once a week, in addition to the regular cleaning.

01:28:02

We did all of that, all right, but meanwhile, we opted to meet because we felt that we were within the guidelines that he had said, even though he didn't specifically say churches could open, we opened at a time when other buildings were opening in the same vein as we were, and we were okay.

01:28:26

Now we're in pretty much compliance with everything, but we're doing pretty much business as usual with the exception of keeping the distance.

01:28:35

Now people, what they do, that's up to them. If they want a hug, let them hug, but we're not encouraging that.

01:28:42

If they want to wear a mask, they can wear a mask. If they don't, they don't have to. But we are adhering to the mandates as best as we can, but we have an obligation to have our worship service.

01:28:56

Now, there comes a point when a government is actually, in some sense, you might even, maybe you can agree or disagree with me, is a government forcing a

01:29:12

Christian to sin if the Christian complies with a law that makes him violate a tenet of Christian worship.

01:29:23

For instance, to tell people, to tell Christians that they cannot sing in the gathered worship when that is actually a command of the scripture.

01:29:33

Yeah, we would challenge, I would challenge that. So you don't think a church should roll over and just obey something like that?

01:29:40

No, I think there comes a... I have a great deal more respect for John MacArthur and what he's doing out there now.

01:29:46

I mean, I always respected him, but I mean, even more so now. We discussed it early on, and if things hadn't changed in New York where we could...

01:29:57

I'm convinced that we're following the mandate, you know, that the governor has said, because we're in kind of like the last phases now, so we're in pretty decent shape.

01:30:08

But there were times that we discussed whether or not we were going to defy the order and face a fine and or jail.

01:30:19

And that was a real possibility for us. And fortunately, it didn't come to that, but we did have the police called on us a couple of times, but the police came and they looked around and it was their opinion that we were okay, we weren't doing anything that was foolish.

01:30:37

And I apologize for calling the police, I was just trying to keep you on your toes, I didn't mean anything...

01:30:45

No, I mean, I definitely believe that there comes a point where we may have to...

01:30:52

And I think the time is coming where we're going to have to stand and face possible jail time. If that's what it takes.

01:31:00

But look, Peter and John said it very clearly, you decide who do we obey,

01:31:08

God or man. And if it's a clear command, if they tell us that we can't worship, I'm sorry, but we can't do that.

01:31:16

We have to worship. That's why we were saved. We were saved to be worshipers.

01:31:23

By the way, folks, Pastor Rich Jensen just mentioned Grace Community Church, which is pastored by John MacArthur in Sun Valley, California.

01:31:33

Many of you most likely know that Dr. MacArthur has defied the orders of the governor to cease and desist from public worship.

01:31:43

And they keep winning court battles, but it seems like those victories in court continually become overturned and they have lost...

01:31:53

Grace Community Church has lost their parking lot license. So, I mean, there's all kinds of things going on that requires prayer for them.

01:32:02

But Phil Johnson, who is the executive director of Grace to You Ministries, the media ministry of Dr.

01:32:08

John MacArthur, he's going to be my guest again on Monday, the 7th of September to give us more updates on this.

01:32:14

So I just thought I'd let you know that. I thank you so much, Mary, for the excellent personal plea for help and guidance and counsel during a very sad time in your church's history.

01:32:31

And we have CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, who says, do you have private times of interaction with the leaders of these churches with whom you share fellowship that do grapple and have friendly debate in existence amongst you over those issues where you do disagree or do you just ignore them completely?

01:32:56

No, we definitely have some discussions and we've got it set up right now where the leaders of these churches, the elders and other officers, we meet about once a month.

01:33:10

We were meeting twice every two months, but we've moved that up to once a month. And in those times of discussion, we actually start with a little devotional and then a round of prayer, discuss the ministries that we have, what the issues are, and then we take those back to our churches to pray.

01:33:30

But we do get involved in some discussions. And if we feel that somebody has overstepped themselves in anything, it's brought up.

01:33:39

We confront each other biblically, not in a negative way. Confrontation is not a negative thing.

01:33:46

It's a positive thing. We're told to admonish one another by the Apostle Paul. And we have some very frank discussions about these things.

01:33:56

And so far, it's worked out extremely well. My comment earlier was that, personally,

01:34:04

I don't want to have a conference at my church and include other churches that are different and have those differences become the debating point.

01:34:13

You know, the purpose for the fellowship is to bring people together so that together we can advance the kingdom.

01:34:19

We can preach the gospel. And that's why the central agreeing point is the doctrines of grace, because how you preach the gospel, if you don't hold to the doctrines of grace, you're going to preach the gospel differently than I am.

01:34:34

And that would be a difficult thing. Yes. And obviously, the question was more in alignment with what you do privately with these leaders with whom you share fellowship in these corporate fellowship gatherings, not what takes place in the corporate gatherings themselves.

01:34:54

Exactly. And that's where we would keep, you know, any of these discussions. And we do get into some of those discussions.

01:35:03

Great. Thank you, C .J. and Lennon Hearst Long Island. Let's see.

01:35:08

We have Bobby in Hartsdale, New York. And he says, Do you have any suggestions and guidance on how to maintain a spirit of unity and peace amongst churches that have different theological opinions on things with whom you share fellowship and be able to do so honestly and clearly without destroying the friendship and without becoming contentious and competitive?

01:35:39

Yeah, I think the answer to that is very simple. One, you have to learn how to treat a brother with respect.

01:35:49

In 1 Corinthians, Paul talks about, you know, the weaker brother and how do we treat them, etc.

01:35:58

And he talks about, you know, not destroying the one for whom Christ died. And I think that's the sticking point.

01:36:05

Even though we may have some serious doctrinal differences, if I'm convinced that the person is a brother in Christ, I have to treat him as a brother in Christ.

01:36:15

And he's somebody for whom Christ has died. Who am I to castigate somebody in a negative way?

01:36:23

If I have any issues with him, I have to do that in love. That's what the Apostle Paul says. Admonish one another in love.

01:36:31

All right. And this is one of the points which I think is often lost. Kindness and truth go together.

01:36:39

You will find that consistently through the scripture. Paul, confront one another in love. Proverbs 3, let that kindness and truth depart from your lips.

01:36:49

So it's always confronting in love. And if you do things in the right manner where the person sees that, you know, even though he disagrees with you, that you're doing it out of love and compassion, you will maintain the fellowship and you're not going to break the relationship.

01:37:07

And I think that's really an important issue, is that we do that. And so far it has worked. We haven't had anybody walk away from our fellowship angry.

01:37:16

And we have had some confrontations that were somewhat difficult.

01:37:22

But at the end of it, because we followed the scriptural mandate of confronting privately and with love, the situations have been resolved.

01:37:34

And the fellowship is still together and still strong. Harrison in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, says, how far would somebody have to depart from these so -called five points of Calvinism before you would end fellowship with them?

01:37:55

For instance, let's say a pastor loves Charles Spurgeon, but happens to disagree with Spurgeon on limited atonement and might embrace what has become known as Amarillianism.

01:38:06

Is that close enough to maintain a fellowship with that church?

01:38:14

It would depend on, as soon as we start getting to where they're departing from the five points, that would really depend on the individual.

01:38:25

Again, our goal is not to push people away, but to pull as many people in so that we can fellowship.

01:38:32

And how they would handle that, we would talk about that and see if it would work within the fellowship.

01:38:39

And that would be a decision that would be made by the people who are in the fellowship themselves, not just one or two individuals.

01:38:46

And so that's the way we would handle that. And again, because don't forget, there are some people who are just arrogant and they're going to stick to their guns.

01:38:59

And if it comes up, they're going to address it this way. And again, the whole idea here is to bring people together, not to highlight the differences, but to highlight the things that we hold together.

01:39:12

So I have never in my life experienced arrogance from professing Christians. Liar, liar, pants on fire.

01:39:22

Well, let's clarify a couple of things. First of all, Charles Spurgeon is not the litmus test for orthodoxy, but it just so happens that your fellowship is called the

01:39:31

Spurgeon Fellowship. That's why I guess the questioner brought him up.

01:39:37

But secondly, you're specifically talking about that fellowship. I'm sure, knowing you, you would not restrict or prohibit fellowship with all non -reformed churches on different occasions.

01:39:52

I mean, even a church that might be evangelical or Arminian, you would find some kind of commonality to have some kind of brotherly interaction with them, but not in that specific fellowship that's a more formal gathering.

01:40:09

Yeah, we have one church that the pastor attends the fellowship and is involved with us who is, in fact, a five -point

01:40:16

Calvinist, but he's also dispensational. He's kind of like a John MacArthur dispensationalist.

01:40:24

And we're a covenant theological church. I mean, a very definite

01:40:31

Reformed Baptist, our view of the covenant is that as put forth by Owen and the

01:40:38

Reformed Baptists. But that hasn't become an issue because that's not what we're focusing on.

01:40:44

What we're focusing on here is preaching the gospel and getting the gospel out, and he's right with us on that.

01:40:52

And so it works out fine. We just agree to disagree on the other, and in the fellowship, it doesn't come up.

01:41:00

Yes, and you have actually opened up your pulpit to folks such as Dr. Tony Costa, who is a

01:41:06

New Covenant theology advocate. Yes. So you do have a much more gracious extension of your open arms than some people might think on the surface.

01:41:18

Yeah, I mean, the idea is, I mean, because, look, Tony Costa has become a dear friend, and he would never, knowing where we stand, he would never from the pulpit address an issue knowing that we would disagree with that.

01:41:35

And there's that respect that he has for us and we have for him, and he's welcome in my pulpit any time he's down here.

01:41:42

In fact, Grace Reformed Baptist Church, a sister church of yours, also a covenantal Reformed Baptist Church, has appointed a

01:41:50

New Covenant theology advocate as the headmaster of the Grace Christian Academy.

01:41:56

So there is that ecumenical spirit in a right sense where some things that are rightly considered serious are not considered so high in the ladder of importance that they would break down all kinds of fellowship.

01:42:12

Yeah, in fact, that gentleman who also is a good friend of mine, in fact, we just spoke on the phone just this week even, but he's an elder in one of the churches that is part of our fellowship.

01:42:26

Right. So, and it works out extremely well. We know the differences that we have that they're just not brought up.

01:42:35

We want to win Long Island for Christ. That's our job. This is our

01:42:40

Jerusalem. And if we can partner with churches, I know these men, they're dedicated believers in Jesus Christ, and we need to work together.

01:42:55

Amen. We have to go to our final break right now, and if anybody wants to join us, the question of your own,

01:43:02

I highly suggest you send in the question fairly quickly because we're rapidly running out of time. Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:43:09

chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back with Pastor Rich Jensen, right after these messages from our sponsor.

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Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers, which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God, as revealed in scripture, through the person and work of our

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Lord Jesus Christ. And of course, the end of which we strive is the glory of God.

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If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

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Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our Sovereign Lord, God, Savior and King Jesus Christ, today and always.

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Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. We're back and we have a question from a very faithful and loyal listener and financial supporter of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina.

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He says, greetings brothers. I believe as we face more persecution in America, that the wolves will separate from the sheep, and we'll see the true church start spending more time together, even though we may have minor differences.

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Do you think this is where we're headed? I would agree.

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I think we are headed that way. I think we're seeing it when the church is in trouble, it definitely is purified.

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We saw that in China. We've seen it in the former Soviet Union, that when persecution comes, some of the minor differences fall by the wayside.

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The church is purified and comes out stronger in the end. If you're a student of history, you know that's the truth.

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Nobody likes to go through the fire, but that's what the Lord will take us through numerous and many times.

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What we're seeing, and I'm not talking just about the pandemic at this point, but what we're seeing nationwide and the rhetoric that is being used, and so much of it is focused against the church.

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Yeah, I think the church is, I'm not a prophet, this is not inspired, but I'm concerned about what is coming for the church.

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And the future generations. And might I add an adjective that I think you would agree with me adding, when

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Grady asked about minor differences, and you in response used the word minor, you're speaking of comparatively minor, lest the really theological, what's the word

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I'm looking for, anal -retentive folks among us, but even those that just have a healthy view of the importance of our theological differences.

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We don't mean that they're minor in and of themselves, we mean that they're minor comparatively. Like for instance, we might even say that the issue of Credo versus Pedo baptism is a comparatively minor difference, but it's not minor.

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No, in fact I would definitely say it's not a minor issue. And that's an interesting one, and I'm glad you brought that up, because there's a perfect example.

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I mean, us and the Presbyterian, Reformed Baptists and Presbyterians, in the United States today, we have a history of being the closest of great fellowship, you know, in Reformed Baptist conferences, it's not at all unusual to have

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Presbyterian, you know, Pedo Baptist speakers, even keynote speakers.

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And you'll find the affection between us is great, because we are both covenant, you know, not only

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Calvinist, but covenant in our theology. And yes, we have...baptism is a major issue, all right?

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I don't even think it's a minor, I think it's a major issue. But we can still fellowship in a tremendous...we

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can worship together, all right? And with relatively little problems, little digging, you know, here and there, you always get the little...

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But no, I think that's an excellent example of how it can even be somewhat of a major issue, and yet we can still fellowship and worship together.

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And exchange pulpits. Yes, without question. In fact, if I was to have to move someplace, and there were no

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Reformed Baptist churches, and there was a good, solid, like an OPC church, that's where I would attend.

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Probably over a general Baptist church. And the same would be for me, and I would include in that, if there were only

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Reformed Baptist churches or a Reformed Baptist church that was cold as ice and had an authoritarian dictatorship in eldership, uh, and I had the choice between that or an

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Amaroldian church that had a pastor or pastors with the true hearts of shepherds,

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I would be going to the latter congregation. Yeah. Well, I want you to have about three minutes of uninterrupted time to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today about this topic.

01:56:36

Okay, I don't know if it'll take three minutes, but I can give you just some thoughts. I think we need to keep in mind,

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Augustine said it, and it has been repeated over and over again, but I think it bears on us, in the essentials, unity, in the non -essentials, liberty, and in all things, charity.

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And I think that's just such a great quotation, and we need to keep it in mind.

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Sometimes we just focus too much on the unity and the essentials, and we're not, you know, focused on the liberty.

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We have freedom in Christ, you know, and the other thing that I would just like to close with is, don't ever forget that as Christians, we are called to be peacemakers.

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All right? Right in the Beatitudes, blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the sons of God.

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And being a peacemaker is not, it's more than just being at peace with your neighbor.

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We are supposed to be the ones who are bringing peace. Now, first and foremost, excuse me, first and foremost, we're bringing peace with God, but it always comes down to, you know, the horizontal being peace with our neighbors as well.

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Well, praise God. It's been such a joy having you back on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I definitely want you back very soon, again, and very often.

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And I just want to remind our listeners, if you want to find out more information about Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York, go to hopereformedli .net,

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hopereformedli, which stands for longisland .net.

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Also, folks, please do not forget about our interview tomorrow with Dr.

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Jason Lyle, a Christian astrophysicist and popular speaker and author and founder of Biblical Science Institute, who's going to be discussing his book,

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Taking Back Astronomy. That's tomorrow, Friday, the 4th of September, between 4 and 6 p .m.

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Eastern time. Tell all of your friends and loved ones, especially if they love science, I would strongly suggest you tell the lost that you know, who perhaps think that we who are

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Christians are all a bunch of morons and that there are no such things as academically brilliant Christian scientists.

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And of course, I have to pause between those two words because Christian science is a cult, but Christians who are scientists is a better way of phrasing it.

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So, tune in tomorrow, Friday, September 4th, 4 to 6 p .m. Eastern for our interview, our very first interview ever with Dr.

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Jason Lyle on Taking Back Astronomy. I want to thank everybody who listened today.

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I want to remind you to give as frequently and as generously as you can to Iron Sharp and Zion Radio during the midst of our really huge financial crisis at ironsharpenzionradio .com.

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Click support, then click, click to donate now. ironsharpenzionradio .com. Click support, then click, click to donate now.

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I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.