Reactions to Beth Moore "Go Home" Controversy & the "Split" Begins

Welcome to the Conversations That Matter podcast. My name is John Harris, and I have a lot to share with you and not a lot of time to do it, so I'm gonna be speaking a little fast today.

But I will be weighing in on the John MacArthur -Beth Moore controversy. I have dived into the bowels of Twitter to bring you information that I don't think anyone else is talking about, so you can look forward to that.

But I also wanna talk about the bird's eye view here, because on the ground, I can see real instances of this.

I can point you to, there are splits already happening. People are associating with others of like mind concerning the issue of social justice.

It's just happening. And if you're a fence -sitter, and you think you can just ride this one out, I think you're mistaken.

You're gonna have to make a decision at some point. You're not gonna have the choice, and you can stay in the denomination or association you're in that's going towards social justice, or you can form a new association, or you can be independent, as one big

Southern Baptist church chose to do on Sunday. And so, you have three options before you. And I wanna talk about how we got to this point.

I wanna explain it as best I can. And I do have some big news I'm going to be dropping later in the program, some of you probably are unaware of.

And to the point now, I feel comfortable sharing it. So, you have a lot to look forward to.

Now, before I get to all that, I'm really grateful to be in my office speaking to you, because I was traveling last week.

I wasn't able to put out an episode because of that. I was in Iowa, in Des Moines, on Friday and Saturday for the

Stand Against Marxism Conference. And Judd Saul, the director of Enemies Within the Church, flew me out and let me stay in a hotel and speak.

And I did speak on millennials and Gen Z folks who are attracted to social justice.

I explained why they're attracted. And I aimed it at parents and grandparents, what they can do to address this with their children, grandchildren, nephew, niece.

And I tried to be encouraging. I did get some really good, positive feedback. You can go check it out,

I believe at StandAgainstMarxism .com. It is not free. I asked about that. They're going to upload it as a pay -per -view.

And I know a few of you had problems with the stream. You paid $19 .84, it's the same price. Significant number, right?

$19 .84, you can go and you streamed it, for some of you. But those who were, you couldn't watch all the sessions or the stream wasn't working for you, you are still able, when the videos are uploaded, to go back and watch them.

For those who have not seen any of them yet, you can go pay that. Or, here's the other thing, you can become a patron of mine on Patreon.

There we go. Go to patreon .com slash worldviewconversation. You can go to my

Patreon account and there is a code that I have posted there to get all those videos free when they're uploaded.

So I'll try to remember to announce when they're uploaded. But Enemies Within the Church is the one that put this conference on.

They're doing a great job. It was good meeting a lot of you out there. Just putting names with faces was just really encouraging and I had a great time.

So I just wanted to say that before we get into the other conference that was going on this weekend.

And that was the Truth Matters Conference, which was held at Grace Community Church, which is the church

John MacArthur preaches at in Sun Valley, California. Now, I do need to say, my father is a master's grad.

He's a pastor. So that's the seminary that's on the campus there. And so I grew up going to Shepherd's Conference.

I know a lot of the folks there and very comfortable with that setting. And I've been there when

Todd Friel has done Q &As. I've listened to Todd Friel, I used to for years. And I still appreciate a lot of the things that he does.

And so there's a dynamic to this that I want to explain if I may, because I think a lot of people are misunderstanding just the dynamic of the room.

So I just want to say that off the top. But let's play the video.

Let's look at what was said that is causing the firestorm that we've seen over the weekend.

Here we go. For your stretches, I will say a word and then the three of you need to give a one or a pithy response to the word.

I feel like I'm being set up. That is always the case with Todd.

Watch out for him. He will try to embarrass you. We're going to start out. This is just kind of touching your toes.

Easy, easy set up for you. Let's begin with an easy one. The word is Beth Moore.

That's two words. Liberalist. All right.

Now we can stop it right there because John MacArthur is already in trouble. Todd Friel said Beth Moore and the audience laughed and it's a bunch of men laughing at women.

That's what we're told. I'm going to show you examples of that. Now here's the reality. This was a mixed audience. Unlike at Shepard's conference where it's a men's conference.

I'm going to show you though a clip real quick before we proceed with MacArthur's comments on Beth Moore from a few years ago.

Similar situation. Todd Friel's at Shepard's. He's with a panel and MacArthur's on it and he brings up Duck Dynasty.

How does the audience react when Todd Friel brings up Duck Dynasty? Well, let me show you.

I want to talk about Duck Dynasty. They believe that baptism is necessary for salvation.

Considering how popular they are, is this an issue that a local pastor, a local church needs to be addressing, dealing with in any way, shape or form?

Let me just say to start with that all things being considered, there would be a better place to get your theology than Duck Dynasty.

Just as a general principle. Before Todd Friel was a Christian talk show host, he was a comedian and he tells jokes on stage and people are anticipating that he's going to say something funny.

And when he brought up Duck Dynasty a couple years ago and John MacArthur is having to address Duck Dynasty, a very serious theologian who's well -respected, it strikes everyone as a little bit funny that almost like MacArthur would have to address something so far outside of his wheelhouse.

Who thinks that John MacArthur would ever even watch Duck Dynasty? And it's the same thing with Beth Moore. John MacArthur is not reading

Beth Moore books. John MacArthur is not listening to podcasts and watching shows that Beth Moore's on.

He's not tuning into TBN when she was on TBN. John MacArthur is reading theology and the

Bible and Greek and Hebrew. And I mean, that's what we associate John MacArthur with. So for Todd Friel to bring up Beth Moore as something

John MacArthur would be interested in talking about is funny.

That's why. Now, Todd Friel has a habit of bringing up things that he thinks are relevant.

And right now, Beth Moore is relevant. But John MacArthur is not in the

Southern Baptist Convention and Todd Friel wants John MacArthur to weigh in on this because a lot of people listen to him and he can help them know how to navigate

Beth Moore and some of the controversy surrounding her. But that's why it's funny, guys.

I'm telling you, I know that's why it was funny. It's not because they're all making fun of a woman or something like that, which is how, unfortunately, it was portrayed on social media.

Dr. MacArthur, Beth Moore. How many words do I get? You know, actually, and before you answer this, please think carefully this time because last time you did a one -word association, the guy wrote a book about it and we don't want that.

I was thinking of the same word. Okay. Go home. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.

Well, I see we're warmed up. Oh, oh, oh, oh, I dilly -dally.

There's no case that can be made biblically for a woman preacher, period, paragraph, end of discussion.

So let me see if I can get a clarification on that. Got one.

Notice where the laughter is. The laughter's at Todd Friel and John MacArthur in this situation. Todd Friel warns him, remember last time what happened?

Be careful, and then John MacArthur doesn't heed his advice and he isn't careful and he says go home and people are laughing at that.

When MacArthur says something serious, when he says there's no case to be made biblically for a woman preacher, and we know what that means.

It's a woman who's having authority over men, right? Beth Moore has done that at times. The audience claps because they are clapping for the word of God and the principle.

They are saying that's what we affirm, that's what a clap is, it's an affirmation. So the laughter isn't, oh, she's a woman, we're making fun of her.

Phil, anything to add? No, the word that comes to my mind is narcissistic. I think the first time

I saw her, I thought, she is, this is, going back to the last session of what

Mike said, this is what it looks like to preach yourself rather than Christ. All right, and.

In fact, she has said that. She said, I read the Bible and I try to find myself in the narrative, I put myself in the narrative.

And that is exactly what she does. And this, by the way, Votie Bauckham was supposed to be here, but I'll just let you know he's not here because he's weak, is what it is.

He's weak and he wanted to rest. So Mike, and by the way, dude, you killed it.

That sermon was double, better than that.

I heard John MacArthur say, period, paragraph, end of story. All right, one more and then we will get into our video clips.

I would just add one thing. Just because you have the skill to sell jewelry on the

TV sales channel doesn't mean you should be preaching.

There are people who have certain hawking skills, natural abilities to sell.

They have energy and personality and all of that. But that doesn't qualify you to preach.

Dr. MacArthur, we've done this a number of times and I've asked you a number of questions on pretty broad ranging issues.

I'm perceiving this is actually troubling you. Profoundly troubled me because I think the church is caving in to women preachers.

Just the other day, the same thing happened with Paula White, a whole bunch of leading evangelicals endorsed her new book.

She's a heretic and a prosperity preacher, three times married and what are they thinking?

The Me Too movement, again, is the culture reclaiming ground in the church.

When the leaders of evangelicalism roll over for women preachers, the feminists have really won the battle.

The primary effort in feminism is not equality.

They don't want equality. That's why 99 % of plumbers are men. They don't want equal power to be a plumber.

They want to be senators, preachers, congressmen, president, the power structure in a university.

They want power, not equality. And this is the highest location they can ascend to that power in the evangelical church and overturn what is clearly scriptural.

So I think this is feminism gone to church. This is why we can't let the culture. Now you can see in that clip that John MacArthur and Phil Johnson have a great concern.

They're serious. MacArthur thinks that biblical precepts, especially when it comes to gender roles, are being subverted.

And I will note, not to beat a dead horse, but when Bodie Bauckham is brought up and Todd Friel says he's weak, people laugh in the audience.

So if you're gonna say that they're mocking Beth Moore, they must also be mocking Bodie Bauckham, but that's an aside.

I did dive into the Twitter world and get some reactions from prominent evangelical leaders.

And I want to show you those because this is where things start getting concerning. Lincoln Duncan, who, friend of John MacArthur's, right?

John MacArthur said that he didn't want to fight Lincoln Duncan because Lincoln Duncan was his friend and he wants to fight error. And look what

Lincoln Duncan says. One of the strange features of the internet and social media is the phenomenon of polemics as entertainment.

People who are attracted to this kind of thing can pretend that their great concern is for God and the truth and the church, when in fact they are simply indulging the flesh.

Wow. So John MacArthur is just pretending that that's his concern. He's just really indulging the flesh and the people in the audience and Todd Friel.

Talk about harsh. They say he's being harsh. That's harsh. And Danny Akin says it's heartbreaking when heroes of the faith say and do things that can only be characterized as unkind and unloving.

You get the impression this is almost like passive aggressive. They're not mentioning MacArthur. Hardly any of these tweets do, but it just becomes this person we will describe in the situation we will describe, which everyone knows what we're talking about.

And then we'll say things about it. And Danny Akin is saying it's unkind and unloving. And this is honestly, this is disgusting to me.

It's absolutely disgusting. And I tagged Danny Akin and he probably saw it. And I said, how is this not hypocritical?

Just a few months ago, he was caught on a student, I guess, recorded a lecture of his when he was talking about kinder, gentler complementarianism, which

A .D. Robles and I did a video and we went through a lot of his quotes and we just showed how that really doesn't make sense.

But in that lecture, Danny Akin says that what Beth Moore was doing and tweeting out that she was preaching at a service with a mixed audience was stupid, that she shouldn't have been mentioning that she was preaching to men, that it was just really stupid and the tone of his voice is condescending.

And it's just interesting that he's saying the same kind of thing John MacArthur's saying in a way, only he's doing it behind closed doors.

And John MacArthur does it out in the open like a real man should, I would think. And then Danny Akin is saying it's unkind and unloving.

It's just, man, I don't know how you justify this other than, or how do you even explain it?

Is it just playing politics? Because that's how it comes across. And we have J .D. Greer, President of the Southern Baptist Convention.

Dear Beth Moore, you're welcome in our home anytime. Now that is purposely misunderstanding what MacArthur said.

Go home? He followed it up with the biblical understanding of what women are supposed to not be doing in this case, which is preaching to men.

That's the controversy surrounding Beth Moore. Did we forget that that was one of the big controversies? I mean, there's more to it.

There's her, you know, palling around with prosperity preachers and that kind of thing. But this is purposely misunderstanding what

MacArthur meant. It is a virtue signal. It is a one -upmanship.

It is saying, I'm nicer than John MacArthur. He's saying her to go home. He's a big, bad man.

And she can come to my home. There's a safe place at my house. Oh, it's pandering.

And I mean, she's got almost a million Twitter followers. And I can understand if what you care about is popularity, why you would do something like this.

But if you care about truth, this is just, you know, and then he tagged, he hashtagged BaptistFaithMessage2000.

Sometimes these guys retreat into the BaptistFaithMessage like it's the Bible, because it allows for the separation of the office and the function of the pastor.

And it's, they treat it like it's this negative standard. Well, the BaptistFaithMessage doesn't say you can't instead of an affirming standard.

And both of those things are just dangerous in my mind. I didn't grow up Southern Baptist, but to keep teaching your people to go back to the

BaptistFaithMessage and to keep teaching them to use it as this negative standard, like a lawyer would, that is separating, there's a clear separation from authority of scripture when you get into that habit.

And I have seen that habit with a number of prominent Southern Baptists. But that's what

J .D. Greer has to say. And then we have some of these more, this isn't everyone, it's not exhaustive, but these are other

Southern Baptist leaders. Wade Burleson, John MacArthur's a misogynist. Yep.

Jackie Hill Perry. John MacArthur has some ego and insecurity issues. And that's why he's complimentarian.

Malcolm Yarnell retweets someone who says, that sounded like a Fox News zinger and the prudence and kindness by which

Christ followers are to be known. Our witnesses lost more than we can afford. So our witness is now in jeopardy. J .T.

English says, he makes a false dichotomy. He says, there's wonky versions of evangelicalism. So MacArthur's I guess in that, that say women go home.

But historically Orthodox Jesus love and gospel saturated Christianity says to women, come and follow me. That is a false dichotomy.

You know MacArthur can affirm that Jesus says, come and follow me. Follow me is his point. Don't follow the culture.

That is his entire point. J .T. English is either very ignorant or he is trying to virtue signal.

So he makes himself out to be better than John MacArthur. That's exactly what's going on here.

This is like playground level. It gets worse though. I don't wanna, I mean,

I don't know. I guess we're gonna go into the toddler section soon, but that's playground level argumentation. Lauren Chandler, when

I hear the words Beth Moore, I think good and faithful servant. I mean, okay, good for you, but is

God gonna say that when she comes into his presence and is judged? That's the question.

I mean, this is again, trying to point out, I've got a mind that's nicer than John MacArthur because I think things that are nicer than he does.

Stephen Eckert, professor at Southeastern, I pointed this out. He retweeted J .D. Greer. Now this next blog, you may think, why am

I even mentioning this? Well, it's actually more significant if you think about it than some of the other things I've shared because this is the future of the

Southern Baptist Convention. George Robinson is a professor at Southeastern and I had him when

I was going to the school. He's an affable guy. I enjoyed him. He used to say, my vehicle doesn't even take left turns.

I'm so conservative. And unfortunately since then, some things have been sent to me and I think he probably has taken a few left turns, but look, nothing personal against the guy.

Enjoyed his class for the most part. And this is interesting because this is a student who probably sat in the same class as me,

Ryan Lott, and I'm probably driving more traffic to him now than he's ever gotten, but he made this blog and it just grieves me because you can tell,

I think he cares about truth. It seems that way, at least. You read this. He's trying to correct

John MacArthur, which I know some of you may think that's laughable, but I want you to take him seriously for a moment because he's learning these things from Southeastern and he's getting affirmed from George Robinson.

He says, this is my blog. George Robinson says, yeah, well done. Well done what you wrote there, Ryan. So here's the affirmation.

Here's what George Robinson affirms, this professor. There were women preachers, right? There were women preachers.

Now, this is not really, this doesn't actually address what John MacArthur was talking about.

And he even mentions like the Great Commission. Like, okay, if you take the longer ending of Mark, because I think that's the only one where you see, is it

Clay K. Russo to proclaim, to preach? Okay, it's a broad command that everyone is expected to do.

I'll grant you that, sure. Was that what John MacArthur was talking about?

No, no, that's not what John MacArthur was talking about at all. So there's a misunderstanding off the top.

It's not unbiblical for a woman to preach. Okay, it is unbiblical for a woman to thwart

God's good design for the church and serving as a headship figure, pastor, elder. Okay, so what does this mean? What does that mean?

That, okay, so you can be a pastor. You can't do that, but you can preach. Nowhere in scripture does it say that God's spirit gives certain gifts to certain genders.

That's an argument I've seen other places too. That because there's nowhere in the Bible you can see where certain gifts are given to certain genders then it must mean that women have the gift of being a preaching, prophesying, so forth.

And of course, we'll go back to your sons and your daughters shall prophesy. Now here's the thing, guys, here's the thing.

Look at 1 Corinthians 13. I mean, our apostles are in there, right? The office of the apostle. And the apostles, there were certain things they could do that were unique to them.

They had authority, right? And none of them were women. Pastors, pastors are told to be husbands of one wife.

And so the argument really at the root level is saying that you can do the things that pastors can do.

We're apostles really. And you can be, you don't have to be the gender that's required to be those things.

You don't take the office, but you can do the function. And this isn't right.

I mean, I'm gonna show you that more at the end, but A .D. Robles and I did the whole video on this and we parsed it out more on a layman level, but we talked about this.

And separating those two things is dangerous territory. And this is where you have my permission to get a little afraid.

He says, this is the new wave of Christianity. What's the new wave? He goes, well, I attend Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary.

We understand the important distinction between office and function. And we're working with movement like Jim Wilkins from the Village Church to get women into the word of God so that they can accurately teach a disciple of theirs to follow

Jesus Christ. To teach other who?

Women, men, mixed. I mean, that's what Beth Moore's doing is mixed. And that's what the controversy is about.

But this is a new wave of Christianity. So here's 2000 years. And this is one of the things, guys,

I've noticed this over and over and over again. There's this tendency, even though they retreat into the

Baptist faith and message constantly, there is this tendency to want to reinvent the wheel, like every 10 years and be like, well, let's just go back to, like, what does the

Bible say about this? And it's always like within the context of that current period of time.

Like, well, in this current period of time, what do we think the Bible says? That's why they're getting things like, same sex attraction is an orientation that's fixed and stuff because they're going to the word of God and they're trying to cram the culture into the word of God.

And they do it sometimes not even realizing they're probably doing it. But we can just throw out 2000 years of tradition and how it's always been, because this is just how the word of God actually is.

It transcends culture, even though it was in a culture, the truth in it, the principles transcend culture.

And we can somehow contextualize it to the point that we've thrown out literally all of Christian history.

It's the new wave of Christianity. That's a scary thought. It really, really is to me, untethering ourselves from those of the past who understood this.

I mean, it's actually very arrogant. And you can see that arrogance in the last section here. John MacArthur needs to come out in a statement of formally apologizing.

Phil Johnson, likewise, needs to come out with a statement addressing the comments of Beth Moore. Like, why did you have to put that in there? Like, it's just, you know, you're,

I understand that sometimes even younger folks can see things older folks can't see.

And sometimes you can be right about something, but John MacArthur needs to do what I say.

He, you know, it's just the way it's phrased and everything. You can sense that. There is this sense that we can look at the

Bible now in our culture, and we can throw out what happened beforehand, and we can tell this old guy,

John MacArthur, that Phil Johnson, you know, they need to apologize. They need to conform.

I'm telling you, that's where it's going. That's just one example. I could have, you know, pulled others. Kevin Smith, now here's the spicy comments, right?

Kevin Smith, he says, and there's a reason that I captured this one.

I'm gonna show you that in a minute. I didn't include it in the slideshow, even though I should have. Actually, you know what? I'll do it this way.

I'm gonna show you who liked this before I even show you what the tweet is, and then you can mourn with me if I pull it up here.

But anyways, Kevin Smith makes this comment about John MacArthur, and he essentially says that the comment was asinine.

That's the word he uses, and I'm looking for it here. There was a number of prominent

Southern Baptists that happened to have liked that comment, and that should be concerning,

I think, for all of us, because John MacArthur is made out here to be completely mean, and how could he say that?

And meanwhile, you have Keith Whitfield, who is a professor at, and he's in the administration,

Dean of Graduate Studies at Southeastern. You have Amy Carter Whitfield, she's on the

SBC Executive Committee. Ryan Putnam, who teaches at New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary, and Stephen Ecker, who is a professor at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary.

All these folks, you can see that. They all liked the tweet that I'm about to show you.

All right? So here's the tweet. MacArthur's mean, but we're allowed to say,

I guess, this kind of thing against him. SBC folk, we have stated, we have a statement.

The Baptist faith and message of outlines are basis for cooperation anchored in biblical truth. Don't let independent Baptists stir up First Corinthians divisions among us.

So he's stirring up divisions. That's what MacArthur's doing. We can't be that asinine stupid in the broader context of spiritual warfare and witnessing for Christ.

So MacArthur is asinine stupid, and look at the men. Shame on you guys.

Shame on you. How can you say that about this man? I mean, even if he made one -off comment, the years of ministry that this guy has gone through and the battles he's fought, and you're just going to, because of, he said, go home, he's asinine stupid?

That says a lot more about you than it does John MacArthur. That goes for all the, that goes for Eckhart, and that goes for Whitefield.

I think, oh man, I just can't even, I can't even understand people who would say that he's being mean and that's not mean.

Really? How about the Baptist blogger? Prediction, John MacArthur goes home before Beth Moore does TikTok.

So John MacArthur's older and he's going to die. Yeah, I'm going to leave that one there.

How about Kyle J. Howard? I'm going to cut through the chase. His dismissal of, he says that what

John MacArthur said was borderline racist. And I'm going to actually get to the clip because I didn't play for you the whole clip of MacArthur.

He's saying something that I haven't played yet. MacArthur talks about Bible translations though and how you need someone who knows their languages, not someone who is just diverse.

That's, and Kyle J. Howard said, yeah, well, that's borderline racist, MacArthur. Yeah, that's what he is.

So here's what we have. Here's what we have. We have,

I'm going to skip ahead here. We have Lincoln Duncan saying that this is indulging the flesh.

Danny Akin saying it's unkind and unloving. Wade Burleson says it's misogynist. Malcolm Yarnell, it's a bad witness.

Wade Burleson also says it's unscriptural. Lauren Chandler says Beth Moore is a good and faithful servant.

So you're mean, John MacArthur. Jackie Hill Perry, this is caused by ego and insecurity. George Robinson, MacArthur needs to apologize.

He affirms that and women can preach. Kyle Howard, MacArthur's a racist. Kevin Smith, he's divisive.

Karen Swallow Pryor, who I haven't read her comments yet, that it was mockery and it was disdainful and was insulting.

That's the chart. This is what's being said about John MacArthur. Now you, tell me, is that mean?

Is that in proportion to what he said about Beth Moore? I mean, if the scripture truly says that she shouldn't be preaching and the scripture says that it's the place of young women to be workers at home, which it does say, and older women are supposed to teach them how to love their husbands and care for their children, which it does say, if those things are in scripture, in the book of Titus, in the book of 2

Timothy, then why is John MacArthur saying go home such a big deal?

How come Paul saying I do not allow a woman to teach and have authority over a man? Why is that not bigoted?

This is concerning. This means that the wind of the culture is pushing in one direction and it is towards the egalitarian direction.

There, make no mistake about it. Now, how did

Beth Moore react to this? This is what Beth Moore said.

She said, I did not surrender to a calling of man. When I was 18 years old, I surrendered to a calling of God.

It never occurs to me for a second to not fulfill it. I will follow Jesus and Jesus alone all the way home.

There's that word home. And I will see his beautiful face and proclaim worthy as the lamb. Here's the beautiful thing about it.

And I mean this with absolute respect. You don't have to let me serve you. That gets to be your choice.

Whether or not I serve Jesus is not up to you. Whether I serve you certainly is. One way or the other,

I esteem you as my sibling in Christ. So this is an attempt to take that higher road and say, look,

I'm above the fray and obviously not taking MacArthur's correction of her at all, but saying, yeah, he's got the problem.

He's got, you know, it's his loss. Here's something else she said. Now this is, I put this in here because of Phil Johnson's comment that she's a narcissist, right?

And I would, you know, my interaction with Beth Moore is very limited. I have not seen a lot of her stuff.

I know, I show her stuff all the way. Here's what I know about Beth Moore. Like maybe 10 years ago at a church

I was going to, some of her Bible studies were used and that ended. And the reason it ended was because of exactly what

Phil Johnson said because she would spiritualize all the texts. Like she had a study on, I think it was a tabernacle, and made it all about like what women were going through.

It had nothing to do with that. And so it was like the hermeneutics were like out, like they were just crazy.

And so you couldn't use it, her material. And the pastor and the leadership made that decision not to use her stuff.

So I know that about her. I know she hangs around with faith healers or I should say prosperity preachers.

I also know that Beth Moore, because this was only a couple months ago, had a whole controversy about homosexuality and she wouldn't say whether it was a sin.

She was pinned to the wall and she wouldn't say that it was sinful. And it was just like she was calculating like crazy.

And one of her books was edited to make it softer on homosexuality. And this is just going off the top of my head.

And of course the whole controversy, I think it was last spring, where she talked about preaching to men.

And she hasn't stopped doing that. That's, and I'm gonna show you that that's still what she's doing.

With all of that, my assessment has been, I suspected she was narcissistic.

Because her studies, she sees herself and the women that she's ministering to in every story.

And she sees every story as relating to these modern situations that women find themselves in.

Which that, what motivates something like that, if not a narcissistic tendency?

If you go to her Twitter, and I did this earlier today, you just go down, I mean she's on Twitter an awful lot, man.

If you just go down her replies, and they're mostly all about her. Well, this one stuck out.

I imagine it a little like this. I'm at a tailspin, stressed, trying to get everything done, getting more anxious by the minute.

Mood worsening, and Jesus like, how you doing this morning, Beth? Me, I'll get to you in a sec.

Him, oh don't mind me, I'm doing fine, how are you? Beth Moore, me, not too good.

So, you know, be big, meany John MacArthur, right? Him, I could change that.

Want me to, or not? This is not how

Jesus talks to people. In fact, this is where Beth Moore gets into trouble,

I think, a lot, because she talks as if God is speaking to her directly.

God told me this, and I'm gonna tell you now. And these conversations with Jesus that she has are, this is like leading women astray, if they think that that's gonna be their relationship, and if it really was

Jesus you're talking to. Is he gonna be at your beck and call like this, and hey

Beth, I'm just hanging out, don't mind me. I'm just the God of the universe, and here

I am. It's your choice, Beth, whatever you want, I'll do. This is narcissism,

I don't know how, like, she's vindicating what Phil Johnson said, after he said it, and she knew he said it.

So, I don't have a problem with what Phil Johnson said, and I'm sure he knows more than I do, but this is such a anthropocentric view of how, what is

God our butler? That's how this is coming across. Now, Josh Bice had some really good responses here.

I'm gonna have to skip over this, I think, for the sake of time. But he goes after J .D.

Greer here, and defends John MacArthur, and, you know, points out the hypocrisy, but I'm about to point out the hypocrisy,

I think, even more so. Check this out. This is, these are tweets, okay?

I don't know if you remember this, it wasn't ancient history, it was on the 14th and the 15th, mostly, this controversy took place, through the 16th, perhaps, into,

I mean, it kind of almost flowed into this whole situation with Beth Moore. But there was a controversy over Jack Graham, and Franklin Graham, and I don't even remember who all, there's a few folks who were at the

White House, and they worked, you know, closely with Donald Trump.

And Paula White is a prosperity preacher, so she's a heretic, and they, these people who are not prosperity preachers, happened to endorse her book.

And this created a firestorm. Danny Akin, the prosperity gospel is the gospel of spiritual wolves, we reject it, and we must protect our people from it.

Then you have this, Stephen Ecker, who's that professor that thinks John MacArthur is acting all asinine.

And Stephen Ecker ended up liking all of these tweets.

First one's from Beth Moore, nothing on earth can make more sober people drunker than being invited to a table where they can sip on power.

It is a drug like no other. Tom Kidd, when cessationist evangelicals start promoting books by prosperity gospel preachers, you know that the

GOP power is driving the church ban. Danny Akin, again, what he said.

So Stephen Ecker, he doesn't like that, when that happened. How about Malcolm Yarnell? Jesus warned us of false

Christs and false prophets who seek to lead the elect after themselves. A false Christ wants you to believe he possesses divine authority.

A false prophet supports false Christ by perverting the word to enhance personal authority. Here's something that Keith Whitfield at Southeastern liked.

Evangelical intoxication with political power will always lead to compromise theology and conviction.

Engage in the political world, but don't sell your soul. Now, I agree with these guys.

I mean, essentially, I really do. I think Beth Moore and Paula White, though, go hand in hand.

So yeah, the whole Paula White endorsing her book, yeah, that's not a good idea. Why would you do that? But then why would you defend

Beth Moore? Now, one little side thing here.

Danny Akin, one of the guys, Jack Graham, who Danny Akin is responding to the situation about the prosperity gospel, and then, of course, a couple days later, a very good reminder by my friend and brother,

Jack Graham. So simple, so true. Sometimes you get the sense that these guys are, like, this is all a game with some of them.

Is this even a conviction? You're so upset that the prosperity gospel is being promoted by people like Jack Graham through Paula White, right?

Jack Graham's doing this. That's the occasion that that happens when you tweet this out, and then a few days later, my friend and my brother,

Jack Graham. This is SBC Politics, and it's one of the reasons I thought, man, I don't know if I can be part of this thing.

I just, ah, you don't know where you stand with people. But here's the kicker, guys.

This is Beth Moore. This is Beth Moore. Joyce Meyer is also a prosperity teacher, like Paula White.

And Beth Moore is here. Um, I have the great privilege of sitting down with Joyce Meyer in her studio today to talk about unity, pray for Jesus to be present and pleased.

So happy to serve Propel Women and TBN. I pray Jesus will be so obvious.

TBN? Yeah, that's like the Prosperity Preacher Network. Here she is in a

TBN special where she's with, pictured there, bottom middle, with Joel Osteen's wife.

So, Victoria Osteen, who's also a pastor, a woman pastor at Lakewood Church and prosperity preachers.

So what is this about? How come it's wrong when

Jack Graham and Franklin Graham promote a book by Paula White on their

Twitter? They just post this one thing. And Beth Moore is a repeat offender. It's not like she's just tweeting one thing out either.

She hangs out with some of these people. Why is that not concerning? So if John MacArthur were to say, like, don't go to prosperity preachers' home or like, you don't have discernment, so go home because you're with prosperity preachers.

How would that be taken? Or conversely, what if John MacArthur, I mean, he did talk about Paula White, right?

What if he said to Jack Graham, he said, you know, what do you think of, Todd Friel says, when you think of Jack Graham, John MacArthur said, go home.

You don't have the discernment to deal with this. Would they have been, you know, upset at him or would they have been championing him as a hero because Jack Graham is on Trump's inner circle?

Seems like they are more concerned. Here's the thing. This is really key, guys. For everything a lot of these guys say about politics is second to the kingdom of Christ, they think about politics all the time.

It motivates them and you can see it clearly here. What's the difference between Beth Moore and Paula White?

Well, or I should say Beth Moore and like a Jack Graham. The main difference is Jack Graham's with Trump.

So they will universally denounce Jack Graham but Beth Moore gets a pass because she is not playing conservative politics and she's also very popular and probably bringing in a lot of money to Lifeway.

So you can interpret that however you want. I don't see another way to interpret something like that.

And it's not the only example I can think of. I've seen this over and over where, I mean, it's one of the things

I even said with my video of Southeastern when I first talked about how that university was. You can disagree on all sorts of things.

You can think that federal headship is wrong and heretical. You can think that death before sin is perfectly fine.

As professors should believe that at Southeastern. You can think any eschatological flavor.

You can think all sorts of different things. You know what you can't do. You can't contradict the social justice narrative. Not one of them assigned a

Dallas statement and I know professors who'd like to. Can't do it. The politics, it is driving the church.

It is more important than any of the other stuff right now. And I will stand by that.

So that is the great hypocrisy and I haven't really seen a lot of people bringing this up, but it is like the news cycle was just made for this.

Like within the space of a week really, they went from one extreme to the other.

We're gonna attack Jack Graham. We're gonna go after John MacArthur and defend

Beth Moore. So here's the, now you might've thought, well, that's all really bad. And I think a bunch of folks did think it was really bad.

And who knows what kind of call is J .D. Greer got, but this is what he tweets out today.

Southern Baptist unwaveringly affirmed God's complimentary design for gender in the church. As again, the

Baptist faith message states, and he quotes it, while both men and women are gifted for their service in the church, the office of the pastor is limited for men as qualified by scripture, while a certain liberty of conscience before God is given to each congregation, applying that Southern Baptist agree that scripture reserves the office of pastor and its functions for men.

This, so that's interesting. The office and functions for men. He says that. And then he says, this is not, and has not been in question.

Really? That's not been in question. Everything I just showed you, that's not in question? Yeah, no, I think it's in question.

The new wave at Southeastern where you went, J .D. Greer, which is right down the road from you. It's pretty much in question there.

We recognize the calling of both our sons and daughters in the ministry and are committed to their full inclusion, inclusion, remember that word, and participation in the body of Christ, even as we respect

God's divine order. We are committed to generous orthodoxy that unites us on the essentials and allows liberty in the application.

I really do believe a lot of what's driving this is an egalitarian assumption that man gets to define himself on some kind of level and to not include someone, to say that they can't participate in some activity, that's mean and people shouldn't do that.

So God has hierarchy. God gives definition to things. God has roles. God has, he's a creator and he's set up creation a certain way.

There's a blueprint. That can be thrown out the door because we're not even asking the right question.

We don't even ask about the blueprint anymore, like Danny Akin's kinder, gentler complementarianism, right?

If you listen to the whole recording that was taken on the student's cell phone in his class, Danny Akin says, well,

I think we should be asking things like, we shouldn't be asking necessarily what women can't do, but what can they do?

Well, what about asking what's God's plan for women? What's his design? The whole idea that God gets to define things, that is slowly eroding away and now quickly.

The whole idea, this also runs into like why Tim Keller and the Gospel Coalition like to promote this same -sex orientation, this fixed orientation that people have because they're not going back to God's design in creation.

They're sort of skipping over that. And then they're saying, well, what's a sin? What's technically a sin?

And then trying to somehow find a place that they can cram this orientation in as a justifiable Christian idea.

But they, like I said, they skip right over what God's design for men and women are. And that's the same problem with this.

There is an egalitarian ethos, even when these people are saying, I'm a complementarian. Yeah, you might be in some ways because you're not saying that women can be, full -fledged elders, but you're tinkering with this.

You're adopting the assumptions of egalitarians. And that's where I see danger in the convention right now.

Because what they're saying, one of the objections to John MacArthur is like, they're saying, how dare you tell

Beth Moore that she cannot be included? That's what was mean about it. Because all the people that are saying it's mean, why is it mean?

Ask yourself that question. Why is what John MacArthur said mean? Go home, women shouldn't be preaching to men, right?

That seems fairly like, it's not even as harsh as something like Paul would say. So it's, why is that a problem?

It is because John MacArthur is saying you're not included. You're not wanted in some way.

That's what they're reading. And that offends the modern man more than almost anything else.

You're telling me I can't do something? I can't do what I want to do with my body?

How dare you say that I can't do? Because man thinks that he has the right to define himself.

And that there's a new ethic, there's a new moral code of what rudeness means. Here's what

Albert Muller says to this. Appreciate this important statement from SBC president,

J .D. Greer. Danny Akin, thank you, J .D. Greer. You express well my own heart and convictions in this area.

All are called to proclaim, preach if you like. The gospel, even as men alone are given the weighty assignment of leadership as elders.

My view for my four years of ministry. Now, why would they be doing this? I'll tell you why

I think they're probably doing this. This is a big church in Muscle Shoals.

It's pastor of a big church. And his name is Jeff Knoblet. And he preached a sermon this last

Sunday after these comments were all made by what I showed you.

And he's had it. Their church is leaving the Southern Baptist Convention. You can go and watch it.

It's about 20 minute clip where he talks about it. And he just, man, you know,

I think there's probably people who are conservative in the convention who wish he would have just run for president of it. But he's gone.

And I know because I've talked to others who are in the know about this kind of thing. This is what's happening.

He's not an exception to this. There are other churches, smaller churches. I've had personal conversations with many that are leaving the convention over this kind of thing.

But it's not just this. It's not just this. There's more to it than that.

And I'm gonna play for you right now, a clip from the rest of John MacArthur's statement.

I want you to listen to this. It exegete the Bible. And I need to add a footnote.

When the Southern Baptists met in June, and they passed Resolution 9, and they said intersectionality and critical theory are useful tools in interpreting the

Bible, that was a watershed moment for that entire movement. Because if the culture has the right to interpret the

Bible, they will interpret the Bible, and liberalism will take over. This is an evidence that they are allowing the culture to interpret the scripture.

A couple weeks after that, there was a panel discussion of Southern Baptist leaders who said there should never be another translation committee without a

Latino, an African American, and a woman on it. Translation of the Bible? How about somebody who knows

Greek and Hebrew? So, I mean, this is not a minor issue when you literally overturn the clear teaching of scripture to empower people who want power.

You have given up biblical authority. This is not a small issue. People would say, no, that it's not our intention specifically after the convention of the

Southern Baptist Convention. This is not about egalitarianism. This is maybe perhaps a soft complementarianism.

First of all, is there such a thing as soft complementarianism? Well, I don't know about terms. I just know women are not allowed to preach.

All right. Do you think that that is the direction that the

SBC is headed in? Oh, it's more than a direction. It was a plunge headlong, but it's not just that.

You can see it in other things that they're tolerant of. You know, I guess in some ways it was remarkable they lasted as long as they did when all the other denominations have been gone 30, 40, 50, 60 years ago, and they held on to inerrancy and they held on to a legitimate hermeneutic.

But when you decide that the culture can interpret the scripture and you need cultural cues to translate the

Bible, the horse is out of the barn. Do you believe that on that issue it is, can the horse be returned to the barn?

It's not likely because that is the result of a democratic decision.

They voted on that, right? And the majority voted that external cultural cues are useful tools in interpreting the

Bible. That's the fruit of inadequate teaching at a core level, at a foundational level.

So how do you turn that around without going back into the whole operation? John MacArthur is absolutely right about this.

Critical race theory, intersectionality, there we go, are not just useful analytical tools.

If you adopt them that way, they are going to be acid on scripture. Someone who says that, oh, scripture is still sufficient and authoritative and it'll keep those things in check, they don't understand the nature of critical theory.

Critical theory rips down, it destroys. It's a lens you look at everything else through.

It critiques everything. It critiques narratives most especially, that's the postmodern element in it.

Bible's a narrative. You're not gonna be able to separate these two. It's syncretism to say that we can live our life with the

Bible as the authority and critical race theory as the analytical tool. Won't happen. And the conference that John MacArthur is speaking at is the conference on biblical sufficiency.

So they've been talking about it all weekend. Of course he's gonna say that, in context. So he probably also, it looks like he probably watched that panel discussion at Southeastern of the professors who were talking about hermeneutics.

Seems like he probably watched that at some point as well or was familiar with it.

In addition, this is interesting to me. I'm just gonna say this.

Al Mohler is running for president of the Southern Baptist Convention. I've had three or, no, I've had four, I think, three or four people reach out to me that are in the know.

Two of them very in the know. One of them I am rock solid sure knows. And they told me, essentially,

Al Mohler's already announced this at Southern. Faculty there knows. Staff there, administration there knows.

He is looking at himself as the unifier, that he can bring both sides together on this issue and kind of keep the

Southern Baptist Convention together. Now, you can debate whether that's possible when he has allowed critical race theory to not just exist but thrive on his campus.

But that's what's going on. And if John MacArthur's a friend of his, you'd think

MacArthur would know this and that Dr. MacArthur would be encouraging

Al Mohler. But what you hear is John MacArthur saying, well, they had a good run.

Southern Baptist Convention held out for a long time, but Democratic vote for critical race theory, that's done.

That's not likely that they're gonna recover. That's interesting. Even if he didn't know that about Al Mohler, which he may not,

I don't know. That's still interesting. If they're friends and he knows how much Mark Devere and Al Mohler care about the convention or are involved in it, and he's saying, yeah, it's pretty much done.

That's very significant. I'll tell you what's just as significant. Check this out. This is the lineup from the

G3 conference for this year. I'm gonna show you the one for last year. You had last year, David Platt was there, John Piper was there,

Mark Devere was there. None of those guys were there this year. They're all from the Dallas statement side, the anti -social justice side of the debate.

And you got MacArthur's even going. I don't know if he's ever been there. He may have, and I'm just not aware.

But look at these two. Rachel Jankovich is an author with Cannon Press. That's Doug Wilson's group.

I don't know if they've ever had someone from Moscow, from that group coming out. This is why I said at the beginning,

I sense that there are new associations forming, just organically.

Allie Beth Stuckey, she is a conservative talk show host on The Blaze, which is Glenn Beck's conservative news organization.

Now she is a Christian, but she's coming to speak. This is interesting. She's never spoken there.

I'm pretty sure about that. These guys from both,

I don't believe, have spoken. I think Virgil was there last year, but I don't think Daryl Harrison or Virgil Walker spoke at G3.

There is a realignment going on. And I had pointed this out a while ago when we were talking about the

Shepherds Conference and the T4G. I said, you know, there's no one saying what the motives are but it's just, isn't it interesting that Shepherds Conference is not including the guys that were on the panel last year,

John MacArthur and Phil Johnson were sitting with who were squirming in their seats. They're not there.

That'd be Lincoln Duncan and Al Mohler and Mark Dever. And it's interesting, John MacArthur is not at the

T4G conference. He usually goes. So what's going on? Now, it could be there's other things at play as well, but I'm sitting back and I'm watching this whole thing.

I'm saying, it looks like new associations are forming. New people are talking, you know, certain people are talking to other people and there are divisions happening.

I don't think anyone can deny that, especially when you look at the churches that are leaving the Southern Baptist Convention.

And so I expect this to continue. I fully expect it to continue. So I'm going to fast forward here a little bit because I don't wanna make this video too long.

This is Beth Moores. This is from today. This is what Beth Moores said to an article.

This article was in the Baptist Standard and essentially

Baylor University just took MacArthur, Todd Still, who's a

Dean at Baylor University, took MacArthur to the woodshed. I read this article. Doesn't look like I included it in here, but you can go read it.

And it is just sarcastic. It's just, anyway, not gonna get into details. They invite Beth Moore to come and preach alongside men.

Mixed audience, come and preach. What does Beth Moore say? I'm so honored to receive that invitation. And when

I read it, it almost looked like more of a, they were saying she was going to speak, not that we're inviting you.

It seemed more of a Beth Moore is on our lineup. And so I'm like 90 % sure this is a done deal.

Beth Moore is going to speak at Baylor and it is a mixed audience. She's going to preach to men. And they use those words.

They're specifically targeting John MacArthur. And I'd love to go through all the arguments. They're ridiculous that they use to support women preachers.

But yeah, there's no humility in this. This is brazen, absolutely brazen.

Unfortunately, I don't have time to go over these because I didn't want to go over an hour and it looks like I'll do that anyway. But I would just challenge those who aren't complimentarian.

Try to figure out what 1 Corinthians 14 is talking about. Women are to keep silent in churches. So what does that mean? They can't tell their babies to stop crying.

They can't make an announcement. Or is there a context? And does that context parallel what's said here?

1 Timothy chapter two, Paul says, I do not allow women to teach or exercise authority over man, but to remain quiet.

For it was Adam who was first created and then Eve. So it's rooted in creation. There's an office and a function.

Teaching is the function, exercising authority is the office. And what does it mean for a woman to remain quiet?

I mean, the liberals will tell you, well, this is just a specific incidence that the women aren't supposed to be prideful and lording it over.

And of course, this isn't gender neutral though. Look at the context. It's rooted in creation and it's very much about gender norms.

So that's like the people who say like, see, in Sodom and Gomorrah, they were just not showing hospitality.

That's what the problem was. You're reading something into that that isn't supported by the context.

It's not supported by the story, the narrative. And so I would encourage you not to do that.

You don't like it when people do that to you in your own speech. Don't do that to the word of God. And I don't have really time to go on.

Well, yeah, we're not going into Logos. We're not doing any of that. I'm gonna just leave it at this though.

Let's end this. It can be really discouraging to see heroes of the faith, people that you've looked up to in your mind and think, wow, are they, can it really be that they're motivated by power?

That they just want Beth more on their side because, well, she's cool and she's bringing in the new wave of people.

And it's cool to villainize people in the orbit of Trump. And so we can do that. Like when you start putting all these pieces together, it creates this situation where you look at someone like Danny Akin or J .D.

Greer and you think, my goodness, they're not after the truth.

It doesn't seem like that's their concern. It's something else. And that can be discouraging.

And I understand that. And I've gone through it with people that I respected and I'm wondering why, how?

And the thing I would do, the thing I would encourage you with is that this has been the case for years.

In fact, since the beginning of time, this has been the case that men have, the sins are in the motives.

That we want things and we sometimes aren't even quite aware of it. We play politics.

We care what people think. And sometimes we can put on a pretty good show. And I've noticed, being someone who's an outsider,

I wasn't in the Southern Baptist Convention. I grew up in an area that was pretty secular in the North and coming into the

Southern Baptist Convention for the short period of time I was in there, the bubble just made me go nuts.

I thought, how do I know if someone's a Christian or not? I mean, there's, and I love the fact there's a

Christian culture in some of the areas where Southern Baptists are prominent. That's a great place to raise a family.

I'm not knocking that, I support it. But I, at the same time, was frustrated with how do

I know if someone's truly, truly genuine? And this is just something that I think has been there since the beginning.

And so, yeah, that's not really encouraging, I guess. But it shouldn't be surprising is my only point.

And I don't know, to use the Danny Akin, I don't know where he's at exactly. I had a conversation with him a few months ago and I don't think it went the best.

But I will say that if, I don't know, I'm not gonna say he's a

Judas or anything like that. I don't know his heart specifically. But I do know that there are extreme cases.

Remember Judas, remember the disciples did not think that he could be the traitor. How could

Judas be the one that has these evil things going on in his heart? And it's hard to tell those things when you're not really, really close to someone.

Even when you are close sometimes, it's hard to tell those things. And so it should be a reminder, I think, to us that it is in Christ that we put our confidence.

It's not even in John MacArthur, right? It's in Christ, and ultimately.

And we have to be spending time with him every day and not putting our faith in chariots and horses and men and their institutions and what they can do together if they just get together and put our faith in the

Holy Spirit and the word of God and the fact that Christ will preserve his church and that he has commissioned you and I to go out there and to proclaim the gospel, to teach, to make disciples of men, and he has equipped us to do it.

That's where we need to put our focus. And there is a Christian market out there that I get concerned about sometimes.

It's like we can read every book or listen to every song but the book, but the Bible. And getting back to the basics is a really good thing.

And I don't know why I'm rambling about this. I never plan to talk about all this, but that's just what's on my heart as I look at these things.

That's what I think is maybe this is a good thing. Maybe it's good for these divisions to take place.

Maybe Lifeway stores went out all over the country. Maybe that needs to happen. Maybe there needs to be less of that and more of you have the word of God, just go to the word of God.

Scripture is sufficient. And so I'm gonna just leave you with that, encourage you to spend time with the

Lord every day, relying on him. He truly will never let you down like men often will.

And so there we go. That is, that's a wrap and a long one, right?