Unveiling the New Age Movement with Doreen Virtue

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November 9, 2023

Doreen Virtue was a big time in the New Age movement but came to Christ several years ago. We will discover what the New Age movement is and the dangers of it.

00:05: Can you show me because we're gonna use some hermeneutics Can you show me anywhere in the Old Testament where that word perpetual is not perpetual because again,
00:14: I understand you're appealing again Sure Wait a minute,
00:20: I thought I was gonna get to have a talk you you asked a question There you go,
00:26: I will mute you because it's not your show you asked a question I'm gonna give you the answer Jet Genesis 6 for the word
00:34: Olam is used referring to those who were of old Deuteronomy, I'll get just rattle off all the ones where it's used not referring to perpetual
00:44: Genesis 6 for Deuteronomy 32 7 Joshua 24 to 1st
00:51: Samuel 27 8 Job 22 15 Psalm 20 247 24 9 25 6 41 13 77 9 90 verse 2 103 verse 17 106 verse 48 1 19 52 1 faith 43 3rd verse 3
01:13: Proverbs 8 23 Proverbs 22 28 Proverbs 23 10 and Ecclesiastes 110 should
01:21: I go on for more? Bob blah blah blah blah To answer your questions your host from striving for eternity ministries
01:41: Blah blah blah blah blah that one always cracks me up That was his most intelligent response to the fact that Scripture did not agree with anything that he was spewing.
01:53: That was a fun one. Oh those many years ago That was with RL Soulsburg on his book Torah ism, which was answering kind of Hebrew roots movement
02:01: That was a long time ago. We gotta get him back on. He's got a new book out So I should do that and he got a debate actually someone who
02:09: I can't seem to debate the guy wanted to was very excited, but then Found out my debates and didn't want to I guess
02:17: Uh, that was rabbi toby a singer but uh, welcome to apologetics live. We should have started off that way
02:22: I am your host andrew rapaport. We're here to answer Any question that you have about god and the bible in fact
02:31: I make the bold claim to say that I can answer any question that you have about god and the bible and if you doubt that Well, my challenge to you is to come on in and give me your hardest question
02:45: Whatever you think I just can't possibly answer Give that to me And we are going to see and if you give me something really really hard.
02:54: I may actually say I Don't know And I also believe that's a perfectly good answer
03:01: So if I answer with that I have answered your question all right, we're going to be talking tonight about the new age movement with Someone that i've just recently been able to to get to know.
03:12: Uh, I was blessed with the privilege of being on her show and uh, we Been I I was supposed to okay.
03:20: I i'm gonna just i'm gonna bring her in It's during virtue and I i'm
03:25: I think I told you this during but When was it you did the interview with justin peters
03:32: How long ago was that? Uh, that would have been 2019 Yeah, because it was pre -covid. Yeah, that's right
03:37: So he he told me that I should have you on And I had in my to -do list since then
03:47: That I was to call you and I forget how we got hooked up. I was like, all right, let's just talk and set this up Yeah, I think it had to do with the g3 conference or something.
03:58: Yeah Oh So well during it's i'm glad to have you in and for folks who don't know you don't know your background and I I want you to explain your background and like I had told you
04:12: I didn't before you Did that with justin I didn't know anything about you and Really what got me into looking?
04:22: Even looking up your background and trying to figure it out was you had justin on and you had one of his haters uh
04:29: Joshua chavez, he he goes by service christy on youtube. Uh, and I Refer to him and well actually our entire evangelism team that met him in new york referred to him as the effeminate hairdresser um because he just came off very effeminate to all of us and he
04:48: Was well, he managed a hairdresser hair salon. And so When people couldn't remember his name that that's what he was referred to as But he he he was going after justin and it was interesting.
05:01: He took clips of your interview with justin and Because of what he did. I went and watched your whole interview with justin
05:08: And realized what he did was he was trying to claim that you were still in the new age movement
05:14: As if you're still believing in it still having dreams and things and justin speaks against that stuff and and He was trying to say justin went on your show and you're still believing this stuff
05:25: And and you were like you were talking about stuff you had believed And it was years ago
05:31: And then he was taking clips of stuff that wasn't from there You know from the that interview it was really very creative editing he did we'll say um but If you listen to the whole interview in context what he said, yeah, it wasn't wasn't accurate
05:46: But uh, so that was that was where I first heard of you and heard a little bit of your background But you're you may be new to to my audience
05:53: And so I want to first give you an opportunity to to share your background. And then how did you come to know christ?
06:00: Well, thank you for having me on this program and hello everybody It's an honor to be here and I To be a born -again evangelical christian is a miracle.
06:11: It definitely wasn't on my life list It was all god 100 our sovereign merciful god who saved me out of a lifetime of deception
06:20: I was raised in a as a fourth generation christian scientist, which is neo -gnosticism And just heretical beliefs about christ as a mortal man a created being who was a role model for us
06:33: And and my mom was basically the preacher of our church. They call it a reader at christian science but this is
06:39: I grew up just so liberal and Heretical and I was told we were christian because we were going to church twice a week
06:45: I had a king james bible we read from every day out of context and I didn't understand the old elizabethan language very well
06:54: And then from there, I just grew up and became a psychotherapist I got a b .a and an m .a in psychology from chapman university
07:01: And I was doing psychotherapy and I wrote a bunch of psychology books and then I was invited to become a speaker with the whole life expo which was this roving band of mind body spirit teachers who went to convention centers around north america and Gave inspirational talks and at that point
07:22: I was still I was a christian scientist Not a new ager, but in my off time when I wasn't speaking
07:28: I would go to Visit the booths they had on the convention room floor that were all new age
07:33: And they they they were like nothing i'd ever seen before there was copper brass pyramids you'd put on your head and and chakra clearing and tie dye this and that and And yoga and reiki and and and I was just really curious about it
07:49: So I started researching and talking to these folks and learning and taking classes And the more that I would learn the more
07:55: I would then share it with others and pretty soon. I was teaching this new age Material to others and I was using it myself.
08:03: So I became a reiki master. I was a psychic I was well known for these cards that had angel images on them very similar to tarot cards
08:13: And and so by the time that god saved me I was at the peak of my career, which
08:19: I think is really Amazing because if I was going down in my career people could rightly say.
08:25: Oh, she just she's a has -been she wants attention But I was at the very peak of my new age career. I at that point was
08:32: One of the top new age teachers according to the watkins list that came out every year and the most influential top 10 most influential new age teachers and I was touring with all the
08:43: New age teachers, you know the Deepak Chopra Wayne Dyer Louise Hay All the famous psychics.
08:51: They were my friends. We were touring all over the world together first class I was similar to Kosti Hinn's testimony where it was all limousines and first class penthouse suites and You know just the living the life of like a rock star
09:06: But um still thinking I was a christian from my christian science days still thinking that I was following jesus
09:13: And I had no idea until I finally read the bible that I was I was breaking god's commandments, but even more when
09:21: I when I read deuteronomy 18 I realized that I was a detestable abomination to god for practicing divination mediumship and Interpreting omens and that was the moment that broke me and I was finally repentant
09:37: And knew that I was a just wretched sinner And I just prayed to god for forgiveness and that jesus would take over my life as my lord and savior
09:47: That was late 2017 september 2017 um, I I was already a public figure
09:55: I was on All the time I was on youtube and facebook and everything and i'd written all these books and cards in the new age
10:02: And so I I made the decision against some Discipling I should I should have gone away for three years like paul to arabia
10:10: But I stayed in the public eye and I had super bad theology as one might expect
10:15: Coming out of a lifetime of deception like that I'd also i'd been having visions my whole life and i'd had this one vision before I was saved that I thought was jesus and And of course it's not and it just took a while for me to sort through I ended up going to seminary so I could learn theology the right way and I Went for two and a half years full time to western seminary where I got a master's degree in biblical and theological studies
10:43: With highest honors which was a miracle to me because if I had gone the seminary before I was saved with my old heart
10:49: I would have got straight f's but just God revealed the gospel to me and I was so hungry.
10:55: I still am for his word that I just drank up seminary and just Oh, it was like going to a feast and so poured myself into all these papers you have to do in seminary and learning and and just To learn how to rightly divide god's word and also to get feedback from my professors
11:13: Do it do I am I understanding this correctly? And and so here I am just um warning people about new age deception because after I was saved
11:22: Um, I naively thought that all churches would be pious and just biblical
11:28: Silly me And and I was so shocked to see that so many of the churches were identical to the mind body spirit festival world
11:36: That I had just come out of Where instead of calling these folks psychics on stage they called them prophets
11:42: But they were nothing like the biblical prophets who call people to repentance. They were like the psychics saying
11:48: Oh, here's your soulmate. You get a promotion at work You're they would throw in a bite this bible verse for master
11:54: You know, you're born for such a time as this just to they stroke people's egos. That's what psychics do and so i've just been ever since then warning people that the new age it cannot blend with christianity, it's
12:09: It's just it's like drinking of the cup of demons and then drinking of the cup of the lord
12:14: You can't blend the two because new age is all about glorifying yourself. It's all about positive affirmations and i'm perfect whole and complete
12:23: Where christianity is 100 about glorifying god, so those polar opposites can never be blended ever
12:31: So did you have uh Opportunities. I mean you you're with the crock chopper and these others
12:37: Did you have opportunities after you get saved to share the gospel with them? um, I was I was pretty much shunned
12:45: And and ghosted. Yeah. Yeah right away. I'm pretty sure my ex -publisher who fired me immediately um
12:53: I'm, pretty sure that I would they were given a do not talk with her clause But every now and then I hear from a new age teacher who says to me.
13:01: Jesus is calling me too and so of course I Will pray for them and share the gospel and encourage them um, but it's you know, this is something that when you are successful as a new ager or Anything like a celebrity anything ungodly and the devil pays a lot of money to be ungodly um to to leave that whole lifestyle is
13:24: It it's it is all god that gives you the strength to do that because I had employees I had to let go of my
13:31: Family, a lot of them are still new age and won't talk to me. My friends won't talk to me
13:36: Um, I was laughed at by both new agers and christians when I first came out the new agers laughed at me
13:43: Because i'm now talking about this, you know the patriarch. They they think it's all patriarchal
13:48: They have a lot of arguments why christianity can't be true and And then the christians were laughing at me because my theology
13:55: I was a baby Christian, you know just I shouldn't have been in the public eye And so I didn't fit in there anywhere in the beginning
14:02: The only people who friended me in the beginning were some hyper charismatics who were into smith wigglesworth work
14:09: And I am just so grateful to god to pointing me away from that Yeah no, you know, it's interesting because we
14:18: We think of the the folks that are involved in new age and the spiritualism as being so Tolerant and loving toward others and yet just because you
14:30: Had a change in your belief system. They didn't want to talk to you They didn't want to talk to me and I got hate mail every day i'd get
14:37: Because I get all my mail on instagram direct messages and I would get maybe five to ten hate
14:44: Letters a day on instagram in the beginning just cussing me out From the love and light community that the day before it said that I was a goddess
14:52: That god had sent me into their life because my work was comforting them. They were so angry with me uh, it was really scary in the beginning and And then plus our whole life was disrupted i'd gotten fired
15:04: And so we had to give back this ranch in hawaii that we were buying From this couple and we had to move and I had my parents that i'd been elderly parents
15:14: I cared for them for seven years so we had to scramble and find a place that would be good for them and and so just it was like going to a different planet or different country for a while and And everyone's speaking christianese.
15:28: I don't know that language. I know new age language Christians don't know it and i'm going to church in tie -dye goddess gowns, you know, my old new age clothes
15:36: So it was so foreign to come out of all that and to be in this new culture.
15:41: Of course now I've uh, I wouldn't trade it for anything and praise the lord i've got a solid church that i'm under a really solid pastor and I've got amazing sisters in christ who've come around me and they know my story and they still love me so i've been making christian friends and It's such a blessing to go to the g3 conference recently in atlanta
16:05: Andrew that was so amazing because I used to speak in that convention center. I used to be on that stage as a heretic and go back there and to be receiving and Saturated in god's word and and the worship music with we had 8 000 people there all singing
16:21: These hymns that I now know I wouldn't have known him a few years before I it was it was so heavenly to go in that atmosphere.
16:29: I just loved it Yeah, that that I I can I can occur agree with both like when
16:35: I became a christian yeah the christianese Yeah, I didn't
16:41: I did not I still remember the first time for resurrection sunday that someone walked up to me
16:47: You know because they if you're raised in a christian church, you know resurrection sunday You know someone says he has risen and you're supposed to respond.
16:55: He has risen indeed And so he someone walked up to me, you know, he has risen
17:02: And I went yes, he has They're like no you're supposed to say this i'm like Why am I supposed to say that?
17:08: Because that's what you're supposed to say. But why am I supposed to say you're like I'd have people like oh you need a christmas tree and I've to this day said
17:16: I You know i'll be glad to get a christmas tree Someone can give me a good reason why I need a christmas tree other than the fact that they grew up with one
17:24: I didn't grow up with a christmas tree. I grew up with a menorah You know, I think you need light eight candles or eight days in hebrew, you know, it's like So much of it we have language.
17:35: We don't think of Yeah, but my husband and I had been episcopalians before we were saved, uh
17:43: It's a long story, but just in brief God started calling me out of the new age in 2015
17:49: And I heard an alistair begg sermon on second timothy four at the end times People will want their itching ears tickled by false teachers
17:58: And then he went on to describe a false teacher and it was like he was describing me And so I I said to my husband, you know, there's some yeah god convicted me with that alistair begg sermon in 2015 um, so I said to my husband, you know,
18:13: I think we need to start going to a Regular church because we'd been going to new age churches And he's like, okay, let's do it.
18:20: He was raised methodist and Back when it before it's like it is now. So we started to go to different churches and We were living in hawaii and the churches there are super liberal and they have the hawaiian culture mixed in With christianity, so you've got prayers to the hawaiian gods and goddesses and such and anyway
18:40: So we ended up in episcopalian church, which is Episcopalians are renowned for their hospitality
18:47: And you know, we're reformed baptists now, I don't think I could have gone from new age to reform baptists
18:53: Immediately, I think it would have whiplash so the episcopalian was a nice coast into reform baptist and And and so they did that He is risen.
19:05: He is risen indeed and thanks be to god and this is the word of god They did all those rituals there. So I knew a little bit of that from the episcopalian time but um the
19:15: When I when I was saved um I don't know. It was just like such culture shock to Have all my former friends and some of my family stopped talking to me and to Learn how to trust in the lord who i'd never know.
19:32: I didn't know him before I thought I knew jesus but I knew him the wrong way as The progressive jesus that he's a wish granter and And he everything goes with this jesus as long as you're positive and you don't hurt anyone
19:45: And I absolutely did not know god christian science taught us that god was mind
19:51: Like an energy and that's what new age teaches too That that god is source or the universe
19:57: And so my first step Uh when when as a christian was who is god and studying his attributes?
20:05: And and just reading that whole bible from front to finish and and i've been reading it every day ever since and then at night
20:12: We listen to a book of the bible at night um And that's been really helpful by the way for spiritual warfare
20:19: Which is something that a lot of people deal with for the first time consciously After they leave the new age that all of a sudden these demons who were masquerading as angels of light when you were
20:30: A new ager the demons are super Restless and unhappy apparently that you've now left them for jesus
20:39: So the spiritual warfare was horrible in the beginning and I didn't know what to do So I got involved with deliverance ministry initially
20:47: I didn't have discipleship To tell me that deliverance ministry is a scam. It's a waste of time and money and that jesus delivered us on the cross through his shed blood
20:59: So and and I also didn't know that in the bible is all the instruction we need for spiritual warfare so I went to deliverance ministry and It would make things temporarily seem better These people casting out demons from me
21:13: But then it would get worse again and so i'd go to the next deliverance ministry same thing and and all the while these deliverance ministries are
21:22: Aggressively pushing that you give them money donate their donations, but it's like they're charging and the third man that I went to named bob larson uh, he
21:32: I had an online session with him where he waves around This wooden cross in front of you on the screen and he's dressed in a priest garb and And that and that was expensive you had to pay up front for that.
21:44: And so none of these things were working And that's when I turned to ephesians 6 10 through 18 to put on the armor of god and started listening to audios of the bible every night and Mortify sin pray resist the devil and he will flee.
22:01: It's all the instructions are there And it's free of charge and it works because it's biblical Yeah, so, you know, we got some uh some comments here that let me see if I can get them up on screen uh
22:17: Let's see, where did we put that? So some of these will encourage you and then got some questions in here for you as well.
22:23: So here's kathy is saying Uh, I follow her meaning you obviously, uh to learn about the new age that crept into the church um
22:34: She said i'm we're so so glad you're doing this show. Thank you kathy Uh kt and jesus
22:41: Oh, no, that's a different question. I i'll get to so let me just answer that so I put up kt Uh, I could try to get kevin on.
22:49: Um, I don't know if we're going to do any more there wasn't there was a video or or an audio that Kevin found for folks who don't know who kevin is kevin was on we did a
23:01: A series with him. He was a deacon in a church that uh, we discovered was a cult and so, um
23:08: So there is a a response audio that after we had done those series of shows that um
23:16: That Basically, he was tony. Miano was responding to some of the things we said and they were woefully
23:23: Uh out of context so we we talked about maybe doing one more show Uh, but it'd be good to have him on um
23:32: Okay, linda said Love my new sister in christ had the privilege of meeting her at g3
23:39: Hi linda. Great to see you sister Yeah, and then we have melissa who said
23:44: I am very grateful for doreen virtue and her ministry She is a precious sister in christ
23:52: Now that's so encouraging. Thank you We have a good guess who this person this next comment is from But we also know why we have to call him what we call him
24:03: Facebook user says Now, okay facebook user is usually Mr.
24:09: Haps addison and i'm going to assume that's who it is from the context of this state of the comment here
24:14: He says I met her at g3. We invited her over to jeff's booth and took a picture Love her testimony.
24:20: So haps was working at jeff's booth, but haps addison who is a great brother
24:25: You'll remember him doreen because you can't you'll never be able to forget him once you see him He's got the you know, long beard actually he and jeff.
24:31: They kind of go with a real long beard and long hair Uh, oh, yeah, yeah real real.
24:37: Uh, both of them have that real like southern kind of laid back um Jeff does the bible rebindings?
24:45: Haps is is or happy he's called. Um, but he he doesn't seem to ever want to follow the rules because if he
24:53: If he did if he went to politics live .com like we instruct him every single week
24:59: He would be able to put give permission to facebook so we can see his name. So we know that's you
25:06: Even you know, even though drew's not here. We know that's you. Um, I happen
25:11: We gotta do it when we can too. Um All right. So here's here's a question for you that uh
25:19: Was asked is where did the term christian science originate from the devil?
25:26: It's not it's neither christian nor scientific it was That's the one I always use mary baker eddie
25:33: She actually plagiarized phineas quimby who was really yeah, and there was a lawsuit.
25:39: This is fascinating his troubling history of um Phineas quimby was a mesmerizer.
25:47: They called it back then a hypnotist who went around doing shows of how he could somehow somehow heal people very much word of faith
25:56: Somehow kenneth hagan is connected to him. I haven't got the complete length steven Kozar knows the story though if you ever want to ask him
26:05: Phineas quimby taught mary baker eddie and then the founders of unity church and divine science church and also, um, there's there's a lot of connections of a lot of False new age teachers have a christian science connection including helen schuchman
26:21: She was jewish and somehow christian science who channeled the heretical book called a course in miracles
26:28: That was popularized by the former presidential candidate. Marianne williamson who I used to tour with And it's the supposed
26:36: Channeled book from jesus explaining what the bible really means and almost every new ager reads this book of course in miracles
26:43: It was popularized by oprah so so christian science Is is absolutely a plagiarism of something that seems to work.
26:53: It's like a lot of new age and deceptive Products it seems to work. In fact, that's what
26:58: I had interviewed justin about was how come sometimes? People go to a false healer and it seems like they really get healed and justin said it's really nuanced that there's demons
27:09: That can actually create the situation that seems to be an injury or a sickness
27:15: And then the demons lead the person to a false teacher and then they leave the oppression
27:21: So the person seems to have gotten a healing but really they've just no longer being spiritually oppressed
27:28: And then they get hooked into that false teacher, I thought that was so fascinating Yeah, and it originated as you said, uh
27:37: Mary mary, I just drove And so She had and and she
27:45: I mean is it's kind of a mind over matter type of thing Um, there is it's
27:50: I remember reading on her deathbed Even on her deathbed. She couldn't admit That she was dying because I would
27:58: Right, I guess do everything she she taught so she supposedly Her last words were tell my followers that i'm committing mental suicide
28:08: Yeah, it's a nuts nutso Theology, but I was steeped in it. I was raised in it. And so it's neo -gnostic in that they believe that Matter and the body do not really exist.
28:20: It's an illusion And and they also do not believe in genesis 3 at all, they think it's just a lie
28:27: And so there's no talk about the fall or crucifixion or sin or repentance or hell
28:32: It's all about cherry picking what they believe are the you know, the positive and air quotes um
28:39: It's talk that jesus did about healing and that's all they focus on And they think that jesus was giving us the key to learn how we can heal and you're right
28:50: My parents were married for 62 years when my dad died My mother did not shed one tear because she said he wasn't dead
28:57: And then she died about two and a half years ago, and I just pray that like the thief on the cross
29:03: She somehow repented before she died because it's It's it is heretical and blasphemous.
29:10: Fortunately. It's a dying religion. Praise the lord Yeah, it's one of those things that came out of the 1800s though.
29:16: The 1800s was a big time of apostasy with Madame blavatsky who really was the grandmother of new age deception that we have now in satanism
29:29: Yeah, and it's it's a thing where some refuse medicine
29:35: Kind of like witnesses, but for a different reason. I mean they're in their sense. It's the mind can fix it
29:41: You know, right when we were growing up We would never be allowed to go to doctors and we were not allowed to go to health classes in school
29:47: They we were put in art classes because the belief was if you learn about illness you'll manifest it
29:54: So we were not allowed to listen to medical commercials. We were just complete mind control of only thinking positive thoughts
30:01: But the trouble is when you have when you have that this fear that if you have a negative thought you're going to have a negative
30:09: Reaction, which is what the law of attraction and the secret teach by the way That that fear it
30:14: How can you get saved if you won't have what seems to be the bad news or the negative?
30:20: thought that you're a sinner and that was what kept me for so long from Really realizing
30:27: I was a sinner because that just seemed so negative And if you thought it that would make it true make it true
30:34: But then you would attract because in these these new age thinks thinking you are the creator and you create your reality with your thoughts
30:43: And so that puts you in the seat of being responsible for everyone and everything It's a horrible responsibility and burden and also it makes all of your relationships including with god
30:54: Superficial because you can never admit that there's any problems or negativity Yeah, yeah that's
31:01: Similar to like in mormonism where it's like you have to have this perfect life on the outside and yet On the inside everyone's falling apart
31:08: It's so sad Yeah, frank says uh, he's saying god has been working in pulling many high profile new age and Neopagan influence out of darkness in these last few years.
31:21: It's amazing. I don't know Other than you know, maybe he's referring to you Kosti hin.
31:26: I don't I don't know who else has is there others that you know of that? Well, I do know that um when
31:32: I was first saved it was very lonely I didn't know any many people who'd come out of the new age except for warren b.
31:38: smith Who's been an amazing mentor? Um, and and so now if you type in new age to jesus on youtube
31:46: You'll pull up hundreds of testimonials So there has been somewhat of a mass exodus out of new age ali be struck stucky just had on and I don't
31:59: Kat von d or I don't know the name. She's did did some tv show about tattooing.
32:06: Um, yeah if you During you don't know this this audience gets it. I'm pop culture illiterate.
32:12: So no one expects me to know any of this I only heard about her because it was mentioned her baptism was mentioned in daily wire
32:18: But then I saw this interview and she had mentioned she had come out of a lot of that new age thinking uh, and and you know,
32:26: I mean a lot of times you get these people and um You you find that they well, you take someone like a uh
32:38: Kanye west it's like They make a profession of faith and everyone like wants to rush them into the limelight like they're going to be the the one
32:46: That can bring so many people to to christ And i've always taken the position. Let's let's wait.
32:52: Let's hold off and I I don't uh, you know, that was very helpful when uh, you know we had uh as folks know on this show lindsey davis and She came out of supposedly came out of bethel and came to the truth and was totally against word of faith and new apostolic reformation and people were telling me how you got to get her on your show and i'm like according to her testimony, she just got saved like I'll give her at least a year and I told her that we
33:21: I you know I spoke to her on the phone and said like I won't have you on Just so you know and I and I told her you shouldn't go on anyone's program you know um
33:30: And but for good reason because now we see she's totally uh, totally promoting deliverance ministry, which we did have a question with that Yeah, so yeah,
33:40: I I learned the hard way by interviewing lindsey when she was first saved because she had just gone on cultish and so I learned that You've got the wisdom wait for a while before someone give you know to see the soil.
33:55: Is there good deep roots there? Yeah, and it seems like with this cat Von d
34:01: You know, she she was actually it seems saved for a while before she was even baptized and Had been you know, she's not like coming out now and being like trying to build a platform it seems so That's what
34:15: I understand and i'm sure praying for her yeah, because it's it's not easy to be a public person and come out and And she's been criticized for this recent vampire video that she did and it's not my taste at all
34:27: But when I was first saved I had contracts that I had to fulfill That it wasn't like I could just immediately sever all these contracts so I had this new age kind of quasi christian video series coming out just as I was
34:42: Leaving the new age and then I had a couple speaking engagements that I had contracts that had already been paid for And so I went to those new age conventions.
34:51: There was two of them one in australia one in hawaii And I shared the gospel there I thought well i'm just gonna
34:57: Go into go into the enemy camp and went over real well. I'm sure yeah
35:03: Well, what happened was that the new agers because because I was at a new age convention And the ones who were not there who were just seeing it from social media started to gossip about me
35:12: See, she's not really saved. She's at a new age convention, but the people who were there saw that I I was completely
35:20: Not teaching new age. I was immediately Sharing the gospel and while we were in australia for this we went to hillsong there in sydney
35:29: And we were attracted to hillsong because of the music because I was listening to that kind of music when
35:35: I was first saved Not knowing the difference but even as a baby christian brian houston and his wife bobby were on the stage and Talking about how the the worst thing happened to them
35:47: The very worst thing and they said they just got back from vacation and their swimming pool was green with algae
35:54: And then they said wait, that's not the worst thing that can happen to you The worst thing that could happen to you is that you don't have a swimming pool
35:59: And then all of a sudden these signs light up on the stage with text this number
36:04: To tithe to them and they start just completely saying that if you tithe you too can have a swimming pool
36:12: Bobby bobby houston is waving around her credit card And saying you can be like me. I mean it was complete prosperity gospel
36:20: And like I said, even as a new christian I could see that this was not biblical. Yeah. Yeah So let's look we got some more think comments here that came up Let's see, uh, melissa said it really bothered me when
36:32: I saw christians attacking doreen We must be careful not to equate a justification with Sanctification when someone makes a profession of faith and and I think that's a good point when
36:43: I think a problem that many christians have during And I don't think they they do this purposely, but when they've been
36:52: A christian for a long time and especially I find this more with with christians that are not out evangelizing and discipling newer believers
37:02: They kind of forget how where they've come from, you know And they expect everyone to just know
37:08: Like what we talked about earlier the christianese they should just know that yeah, it was well,
37:13: I mean I can see both sides now because I also now I disciple women coming out of the new age and a lot of them immediately want to become instagram and tiktok influencers
37:25: When they are babies, and so I discourage them from doing that and yet that's what I was doing And so I shouldn't have been out there.
37:33: I should have taken Three years I should have waited till I was You know finished seminary and also
37:39: I was offered a publishing contract After I was saved one year with thomas nelson And so I said, okay and wrote this book when
37:47: I just started seminary and I mean it's an okay book But there's two parts that are absolutely serious issues that if I could pull back the paper book
37:57: I would rewrite they let me rewrite the kindle so that that worked out but New christians need to be discipled.
38:05: I mean, that's just that's absolutely and they've got to be in the word every single day And it's a big process.
38:12: So thank you for that Encouragement and that support it was hard to be criticized.
38:18: Um By the christians it was confusing But christ gave me strength to keep going.
38:24: So praise the lord Yeah, I mean it's I I always I remember a time in in my first church
38:30: There was a guy he was He's probably in his late 50s early 60s
38:37: And we had someone who had just gotten saved i'm talking like within weeks and the guy's sitting there and He's he's got his bible and and pastor has turned somewhere and he's doing this and he's just He's just flipping flipping back the other way and flipping and just you know, i'm just going back and forth
38:59: And this one guy He just he got so frustrated who's sitting next to him with the pages flipping
39:05: He takes his bible and just there and shoves his bible in the guy's face And like grabs that guy's bible so he could turn to the page
39:13: I was just like, you know, so afterwards after service was over, you know, I didn't want to be embarrassing
39:19: I I the new believer I talked to him privately and I just said Hey, you know, I know what that struggle's like when you can't find your way through the book.
39:27: I didn't know the new testament at all and the Old testament's not organized the way it is in the hebrew bible
39:34: I said, but there's a neat thing and I just showed him the table of contents I said that's what that helped me tremendously and then
39:41: I had showed him that I had these tabs in in my uh, in my um Bible that I put in and that actually helped me find my way around That guy thanked me and I turned to the the older christian.
39:52: I said danny Do you remember when you were first saved? He's like, yeah, I said, did you know your way around a bible he goes no
40:01: I said, how would you have felt if someone shoved their bible in your face the way you did that and he was like Oh that but he's flipping pages and it was frustrating me.
40:10: I said But you didn't have to do it. Like you expect him to know what you know after walking with the lord for 40 years, right?
40:19: Yeah, yeah and then you know, I have this past of um, I was 59 years old i'm 65 now
40:25: I was 59 years old when I was saved. So i'd had multiple relationships I had written something like 70 books in 38 languages that were all heretical new age that were licensed to foreign countries and The us publisher and so people expected me to get all those things off the shelf
40:43: When if they were self -published no problem, but they were published through publishers And they some of them are still for sale out there
40:51: And praise the lord that i'm seeing that things are moving in the right direction I just got a letter today.
40:57: I put up on twitter that my one of my foreign publishers has Finally agreed to stop publishing my old stuff
41:03: Praise the lord. Yeah, but that's six years of me working on this. So it just doesn't happen overnight
41:09: I actually I met a woman who was who's a sister in christ who used to be a porn star
41:16: And I asked her I said what's that like for you your porn movies are still out there she said it's similar that um, her old publisher of her movies will repackage them every now and then and then
41:28: Re -release them with a new title and people say aha. See you're not a christian because it's still for sale and this is just what happens when you've got a pass, so um
41:40: Yeah comes out of a public place like that People don't understand that the publishers own the rights you you give the rights away
41:47: When you sign these deals and once you do that, you have no more say in it
41:52: No, and so Yeah, I was going to mention because I know when when I was on your show
41:57: You had you had said before we started recording that you finally was we're gonna be able to get
42:03: One of the publishers to stop reproducing. Yes so Um frank says this frank said
42:09: I got burned by charismatics in the word of faith circles For the better part of 10 to 15 years and finally ended up in a reformed church
42:19: So we're glad frank that you're that you got out of that. I I did the same thing um Now this next comment
42:26: I have to admit. Um You know this this next comment won't mean much to you means but it scares me uh, tina
42:34: She's christina says wow doreen virtue. I follow her now The reason that that that this makes me nervous is this is my pastor's daughter -in -law.
42:42: So Hi christina, she's watching Myself tina.
42:49: Oh, so tina is really funny. So uh tina unbeknownst to me
42:56: I was uh in the philippines preaching with with justin peters. We're doing a conference at the sky dome
43:02: Tina had been recently saved and and starting to get sound in her faith and She decides that her and a friend are going to go to that conference
43:11: Okay, fine. Not a big deal. I mean there were like 1500 people there. So so What ends up happening is?
43:18: She's her and her her husband now, you know after that she had gotten married to my pastor's son
43:25: And they're coming now stateside. They've been missionaries overseas And so pastors and the wife
43:31: Pick up the the kids from the the airport bringing them home and they're just mentioning this new couple
43:38: That's at church and so Pastor my pastor's wife says, you know mentions
43:44: Uh my name and she goes wait a minute. Did he speak in the philippines? With justin peters and and so she goes,
43:52: I don't know Because you know, I didn't really you know in my church. I didn't really let folks know
43:58: That the ministry so much it was just that's where I go to church And so she's texting me goes. Did you speak in the philippines?
44:04: I said, yeah, she's like back in april before kovach goes Was there a justin peters there?
44:10: I said, yeah, she goes. Oh Our daughter -in -law was there It is such a small world so, uh
44:20: We have sister tara is asking what is deliverance ministry. So you use that term?
44:27: um so I'll i'll let you explain Unless and I know that you know quite a bit about it, too.
44:34: So yeah uh, so deliverance ministry is built on an unbiblical premise that Christians who have the indwelling holy spirit can also have a demon inside of them
44:46: And that's just not possible But the deliverance groups now have morphed their theory because they've heard us argue that and say well
44:54: We have a mind body and soul so therefore the demons are in the body Not in your soul where the holy spirit is and that's what we used to teach in the new age
45:03: We didn't call them demons. We called them, uh earthbound spirits And we used to say that they were in your toe tips your toes hiding in your body
45:10: And we would do this elaborate spirit releasement therapy and it's identical to deliverance ministry
45:17: And it's it's a big big money -making machine It's huge and they have movies and they have groupies and such and and and lots of theatrics so they'll say that they're going to they're going to Mimic what jesus empowered the disciples to do um, and they're going to cast out demons in jesus name and then supposedly the person starts vomiting and throwing up and and and having seizures and that's a sign that's positive
45:46: That demons are coming out of them and then you need maintenance to keep this going The the trouble is that if you look at the new testament epistles
45:54: After acts you never see anyone instructed to cast out demons at all. I mean, it's just not there
46:00: We've got the disciples who did it and then One man in the that was recorded in the book of luke that the apostle john was upset with because he was casting out demons
46:09: In jesus name and he wasn't part of the the inner circle and you remember jesus said no it's okay
46:16: And but then that's it. There's no There's no instructions in the new testament for us to cast out demons and and there's also no born -again christians
46:27: Anywhere in the bible who have demons cast out of them. There's the demoniac there's you know
46:32: Lots of demons that jesus cast out, but they're not born -again christians So this whole premise just is not biblical, but they are just angry when we say that Reminds me of an axe 19 when paul got in trouble with the silversmiths remember because his their income went down when he was
46:50: Called so he's sharing the gospel and they're selling artemis statues And they try to kill him and so it reminds me that this is a big industry that doesn't like to be called out
46:58: I think is the bottom line Yeah, and so there's there's a lot behind it So one of the things you have to realize with this is everything every sin you do is the is not your fault
47:08: It's it's a demons Oh, it's a demon of drunkenness. It's a demon of pornography. It's a demon of this, you know
47:14: Oh, you you know, you have a jezebel spirit, you know, it's it's it's all this stuff the the reality is what you see is really
47:22: It's it's a it's a form of Gnosticism from the first century the idea that there's the the physical body
47:30: Anything physical is evil, but anything spiritual is good So the gnostics taught that you could sleep with a prostitute and as long as you didn't give your spirit over to it
47:39: You didn't sin because just your body and your body's evil anyway and so You see some of that in this
47:47: Where it's this idea that You know somehow you could separate your spirit from your your flesh
47:54: And I mean for folks to realize why did dorian say well a believer can't be possessed.
48:00: Well very simply part of the covenant the new covenant that we Get to enjoy is the fact that the holy spirit indwells us
48:09: Scripture is clear that greater is he that is in you than than is in the world If we're indwelt by the holy spirit, we cannot at the same time be indwelt with a demon because the holy spirit's not going to Partake with that So if you if you are saved then you have the holy spirit indwelling you a demon can't possess you
48:32: And there's no you know, i'll go a little further than doreen did and say that there's there's no instruction for us to cast out demons
48:40: And someone's going to say oh, but wait andrew Matthew mark 16 That's right mark 16
48:48: But keep in mind that I don't believe mark 16 much of the ending was in the original canon
48:55: Okay, and that now some of the people are going what? No, I'm not
49:00: Saying that You know, we got a wrong bible. I'm saying that we do have a there's actually four different endings to mark
49:08: Mark ends very abruptly And what we see in the in the different Manuscripts is we see that there's four different endings to mark
49:20: Okay, and what we have now is basically all of those endings kind of put together
49:26: All right. Let me read where where the earliest manuscripts of mark ends In verse 8 they went out and fled from the tomb
49:35: For trembling and astonishment had gripped them and they said nothing to anyone for they were afraid
49:42: The end Many people think that was just a strange way to end it so they took different parts from other
49:50: Verse other passages of the gospels and kind of put them in we have a little matthew 28 in here and elsewhere and so This is the only place that you have instruction to cast out demons
50:02: But I would argue that wasn't from god. This was what from men early on added to the book of Of mark just from the textual testimony that we have um, let's see, there was some more comments and so Mr.
50:19: Huff himself who who's should be in here to tell you this himself, but he says so thankful thankful By the way is an all -cap so thankful for doreen.
50:29: I wish I could have met her at g3 Thank you for all you do. May the lord continue to bless your endeavors.
50:35: Thank you, brother. Chris. I Appreciate your ministry Yeah, he could have been here to tell you himself.
50:41: He also said this when we were talking earlier He said see to it that no one takes you captive Through philosophy and empty deception according to the traditions of men according to the elementary principles
50:54: Of the world and not according to christ And anyone that says hey, where he sounds really eloquent what he said there
51:02: Well, actually what he did was just quote colossians 2 8 Uh, so we got um
51:12: Here I stand theology podcast He says he or she
51:19: I should correct there because I don't know not that i'm saying that they haven't told me their pronoun but um I don't know who they are
51:28: Hello, andrew. Hello doreen. I greatly appreciate the work that y 'all do for the lord.
51:33: Oh, thank you. This encouragement is Is a blessing thank you And d says
51:40: I have profited a lot from doreen's knowledge of the new age
51:46: Also, and I don't know who this is marcia montenegro She's one of my good friends who also was saved out of the new age.
51:52: She was a professional astrologer And now she's a meticulous researcher for christ
51:58: And she writes she writes amazingly detailed blogs every day From her christian answers for the new age website and also her facebook page and I highly encourage people to follow her work because She goes into the weeds and shows
52:14: Why these new age little? Methods and beliefs just don't stand up to scripture yeah, so let's see i'm going to go out of order because This is answering some we were saying earlier chris says, uh
52:30: Also nowhere in scripture. Do you see that we're to address demons and satan directly?
52:36: We pray to god through the Completed and ongoing work of christ through the holy spirit and and that's true too
52:43: You know, I I like what what justin peter says in his in his talks You know for all the people that are binding satan
52:50: Instead of praying for to bind satan. We should just pray for the guy who keeps letting him loose yes, and and brother chris makes such a good point because in these deliverance ministries and in These quasi christian movies like war room
53:05: There's this modeling that you're supposed to say not today satan and you're supposed to talk to the demons and say get away from me
53:12: But these are evil demons they're they will manipulate people they're not they're not going to sit there and go.
53:19: Okay. I'll go home then Talking to them directly. I think is spiritually dangerous. I absolutely agree with brother chris here and We we go to jesus to cast out demons and now
53:31: I get letters from people who say they used to do deliverance ministry But now they pray for jesus to cast out the demons and that is something that's completely effective with spiritual warfare
53:42: You know, there's a uh account that john macarthur talks of when Someone came in his office and they had a woman who they said was demon possessed
53:52: And there were a couple couple men trying to hold her down and and big men She was a small girl and they couldn't hold her down and macarthur went in there and people didn't know where they should what to do to cast the demon out and Macarthur figured well if she has the holy spirit and dweller then the demon's got to leave so he just preached the gospel
54:13: And she got saved and calmed down you know, so That that's been my way if I if I see his demon possessed i'm gonna give the gospel
54:23: You know absolutely in the lord's prayer deliver us from evil We're to turn to god not to try to be this man -centered approach that deliverance ministries advocate for So, let's see, so, uh, oh
54:37: I see that the uh R &B studios He says this is claude ramsey at the here.
54:44: I stand. Oh, yeah, i've been on his program Yeah, he's got an awesome podcast. Hi claude Yeah, i've i've preached with him.
54:52: So down at the open air theology conference But he's now got two accounts. So he's got now he's he's in on a different account here
54:59: I stand and You know, so he's he's posting on that one too, so he's he's getting double action there.
55:05: Yes pastor claude. Yes. Yeah He's another one with that southern real nice easy going
55:13: If he works fits in real well in the new jersey attitude. All right Justin pierce.
55:20: Oh, this is like this is your life. These are my friends. Yeah Hi pastor justin justin, we we you know the fact that we have a comment here from justin folks, we we should all give him a hard time
55:32: I think because Where has he been? He said he can't be here to help host To co -host with me, you know all this time because he's got school on thursday nights
55:42: But yet, okay. So folks we should do a poll is he is justin playing hooky from school
55:51: A B is he not paying attention in class and just watching this show and commenting
55:58: Or c should he just get in here and help host you guys
56:03: I'll I wonder if actually I think there's a way And I could do a poll in this.
56:09: I don't know if there's a way in here I can we should all right, so Justin says doreen
56:14: It is so wonderful to see you here finally, I think that was a rip on me the finally part
56:22: Thank you so much for everything you are doing and thank you for having me on your show to talk about uh, halloween
56:29: Uh and the book what a blessing. Yeah. No, so that came from you andrew You actually posted about justin's halloween book on your facebook page and and then
56:40: I got the book and then through that I Requested to interview justin two years ago with my friend jen nizza who was also saved out of the new age seven years ago
56:50: And his book is a blessing. I shared his interview again this year And what
56:55: I love about pastor justin is he confronts the church about their their uh trunk or treat events that are kind of conforming to the world
57:05: And there's supposed to be an alternative to halloween But a lot of them they're not sharing the gospel out
57:11: They're they're just basically making a so -called safe alternative to halloween instead of an opportunity to witness
57:17: So he's I like his book a lot well, I would say that at our church it was not that case we did have we do a trunk or treat and we
57:26: Have the trunks outside and we What we did this year was lead people in and when they came in we did have like a an escape room and We had an area for crafts
57:38: And I set up right in that area And with my booming voice everybody would hear what i'm saying if you wanted to or not and so as parents are sitting around I was doing good person tests with people one after another and Do I had my iq test and and I'd pull people in to take my iq test
57:58: Then i'd give them the good person test and I you know So clearly we were we were using it for the gospel.
58:05: We had One autistic young man, uh teenager Uh, this was really interesting.
58:11: I don't think I shared this here with folks on the show Uh, but he he was I guess giving people outside a really hard time.
58:18: He was walking up to every trunk and He he has i'm gonna I think he probably has asperger's
58:25: And so he was just going god doesn't exist and he was like shouting it to everybody and so He came in and I I guess
58:34: I didn't know that everyone was having problems with him outside because he was making a scene for everyone So he was he he comes in and he's i'm sharing the gospel.
58:42: So he starts, you know shouting god doesn't exist. He's getting angry and I'm sitting there talking to him.
58:49: I said well, you know, I said You know what? Well, we can we can talk about that. Um And so he he's oh justin saying if if I give him the code
59:01: I can he'll come in. Well, okay I have to go look for the code He he you should be able to sign in yourself there.
59:08: Justin um So let's give him the code so he can come in and and he can give his excuses, um, so so I had this young man
59:20: And what happened was is the guy this guy was given was giving me a real hard time, you know screaming
59:27: Yelling he you know god doesn't exist and I I start to explain to him, you know
59:34: He I said well he says prove to me god exists and I said I just looked him I said you just did
59:40: He said what do you mean? I said your ability to reason You how do you explain an immaterial thing like your ability to reason apart from god?
59:50: You can't do that And I started you know, he we we start I started to get into You know the whole thing of you know the first law of thermodynamics
59:59: Um, you can't you know the universe had a beginning, uh law of non -contradiction the universe can't
01:00:07: You know create so there's there's the only choice is uh to have um
01:00:13: You know god existing um Oh, this is where I where I get
01:00:19: I get distracted. So, uh Cole who is in the background. I was going to say that later cole is in the background
01:00:25: Uh folks regulars are going to know who cole is but he he created a poll So let me let me share the screen.
01:00:31: This is going to be this will be funny doreen Uh, where is it? So here we go. He created a poll
01:00:37: And it is he says does andrew need a co -host? Jesus take the wheel 100
01:00:47: That's a good one cole I I have to do that because i've given cole a hard time in the past days
01:00:53: So he gets me back. I I have to show that so so this young man's family was really upset with him
01:00:59: See, I don't lose track of my of where I am. And but he he gets uh, he he gets um
01:01:06: Really irate really upset his family's now like we're tired of it all night, I guess And he called me an idiot
01:01:13: And you know and his his sibling was like, you know, will you stop telling people they're idiots?
01:01:19: You know just because people aren't as smart as you and he looks at me and says well He is an idiot and I just looked at him
01:01:24: And I said well, I have 168 iq and i've passed the test of men's passed the test for mensa
01:01:31: Do you understand what that means? And he just like started looking at me. I said yeah, it means i'm technically considered a genius
01:01:37: So before you call someone an idiot who's trying to explain to you things like thermodynamics And laws of logic, maybe you should learn to listen because that's what a smart person would actually do
01:01:47: And this guy just like settled down and then uh, you know, then he got irate again His mother comes over and she's trying to like she was all worried for me and i'm like I knew this in new york city like this is not gonna bother me
01:02:03: I was like I said to her I said look, you know, he's fine. She's like really I said. Yeah This is this isn't a problem.
01:02:10: I i'm happy talking with him and she was like Wow, okay. She was like so happy. She could walk around with the other kids.
01:02:17: So so yeah, so uh, let me bring in our uh, Used to be co -host here who hasn't been here so long that he didn't he didn't log in.
01:02:26: Yeah I don't even know what my name is anymore. Hello. Doreen. How are you pastor? Justin? So great to see you brother
01:02:31: It is so great to see you guys. Oh, look he has he has a saint on his on his is that what that is?
01:02:38: I thought it was just a shepherd Shepherd's theological seminary. Yeah. No, it looks like it's probably an idol
01:02:43: Yeah, I knew I knew that one of you would about take about three seconds to oh second commandment second commandment
01:02:49: Yeah, i'm not under the law Yeah, I just Glad that you came in it is.
01:02:57: Thank you It's so wonderful to have you in I appreciate the the opportunity to glorify god the fellowship and the opportunity to call out new age deception
01:03:05: Because it's it seems to be growing. It's such an issue. Oh, yeah Oh, yeah, absolutely.
01:03:11: And and what's amazing is is how it's interconnected so much with the word faith the charismatic movement and it's it's almost tied in just to the point where it's um, it's it's unreal how
01:03:22: How if you look at the two you can almost not tell the difference, right? And nar when I mean chris valentine, he's basically giving new age talks most of the time
01:03:32: And so I have a couple of videos where I have chris valentine talking and then my old videos and it's the same thing
01:03:38: We're saying yeah Yeah, it's the same thing the you know, andrew you was asking about what i've been doing.
01:03:44: Um, So this stack is About a quarter of what i'm reading through for a uh, term paper i'm writing on the charismatic movement
01:03:55: Oh, and i'm writing i'm writing a term paper on it, uh for my final uh for my final paper and I have been studying
01:04:04: I listened to About eight or nine hours of benny hen
01:04:10: Uh in these big giant mega church things Um the the different revivals and stuff and you're you're reading let's see you're reading uh, holy spirit baptism by anthony
01:04:22: Hokenene and your Pokemon you're reading, uh, the nine gifts of spirit by bf kate.
01:04:28: Yeah, because he sends me this stuff Yeah, like he wants to torture me No, I actually want you to get these i'm telling you if if you're going to be talking to um, michael brown who actually was the
01:04:38: Uh is the one that affirmed the brownsville revival? Um if you want to talk to him get bf kate's book
01:04:45: And she talks about the the when the perfect comes and how that is the answer for the the secessionist argument um
01:04:54: Very good, very good information so yeah, you know, it's interesting what you're saying because with the
01:05:01: New age to the word of faith and and you know, I don't know I mean, maybe someone out there has has done the research and knows this but I I was
01:05:11: I mean I was in the word of faith when I after I had gotten to To you know two years after becoming a christian when
01:05:17: I got to college and I had I don't remember seeing so much a new age influence then but I was seeing it in More conservative churches, you know, it was like it was coming in but They were somewhat more like the charismatic still charismatic
01:05:38: But um, they weren't the word of faith that I saw the new age seeping in and I I wonder how much of it like did it start in the
01:05:47: In the charismatic or the word of faith circles the new age, um
01:05:54: Influence, I think has heavily come out of the jesus calling series Because that popularizes trans channeling and having this different jesus and different gospel
01:06:05: And it seems to be comforting women love it because it paints this kind of quasi romantic view of jesus who's your bff and a lot of the the
01:06:17: Teachings in jesus calling are about visualization About gaze into my eyes and very occultic subtle influences that came through sarah young So I think
01:06:28: I think that was a really big turning point for the church and then and then allowing idolatry to come in that is new age idolatry like The essential oil movement has been seen as a way for christian women to make some extra pocket money but they're selling it's like a trojan horse because Of course, there's distilled oils in the bible and god made the flowers that led to the oils but the essential oil movement has a lot of veiled new age promises such as you buy this bottle called abundance from young living
01:07:00: And they promise you that if you use the oil you're going to attract and manifest money into your life
01:07:07: That's witchcraft. That's new age. Yeah, and and they say use this joy Essential oil blend you'll have joy in your life.
01:07:14: You'll have forgiveness with the forgiveness blend but it's allowed in the church because these are
01:07:19: Women who don't know enough about new age to spot that and that's where people like marcia montenegro and jennisa myself
01:07:27: Are calling this out often? Uh getting a lot of pushback because they this is their favorite thing
01:07:33: And then the other big thing that I I get a lot of hate mail about is yoga I did yoga for over 20 years in the new age.
01:07:40: I would not step on a yoga mat today because it is violation of First and second commandment each each of the yoga poses, which is a hindu worship practice
01:07:52: Each of the hind the the yoga poses or asanas are using your body to become a graven image
01:07:58: To mimic a different hindu god or goddess or a plant or something like the moon or a flower and there's an there's an embeddedness to it that it is glorifying a
01:08:10: God with your body instead of as we're commanded glorifying god with our body and there's
01:08:17: You you can't there's this study that was done by candy gunther brown. She's charismatic But she is a sister in christ and she's really researched what happens when women get involved with yoga
01:08:27: She's found that the average woman got into yoga for stretching and exercise and health and relaxation
01:08:33: And she found that in six months, they were embedded in the spirituality of yoga, even if they use
01:08:41: Psalms or hymns while you're singing, you know doing yoga or bible verses and you never say namaste
01:08:48: You don't say om all those blasphemous Sanskrit sayings of yoga if it is a spiritual
01:08:55: Practice and it it does open doorways, so We can stretch stretching is good exercise is good
01:09:04: But the sun salutation series i'll I just want to give you one example if we have a moment because this is so important So every yoga class no matter what has a series of movements called the sun salutation series
01:09:16: Which in itself is sun worship But one of the poses in particular is a good example of what i'm talking about It's called varabhadrasana or warrior one two and three and you've seen women do this they have their arms straight out and In what they're doing asana means pose.
01:09:34: It's the pose of varabhadras who was One of the sons of shiva who's one of the the the counterfeit
01:09:42: Trinity of hinduism. They have three million gods, but they have a trinity vishnu shiva and and Uh brahma and so shiva
01:09:52: Had a son named varabhadras and he was sent out as a warrior to uh to avenge the death of his wife and And so the warrior poses of the sun salutation series are not natural stretches.
01:10:08: First of all, they're unnatural But they're they're you're mimicking a murder scene with your body of a hindu god
01:10:16: I mean, it's just shocking if you really break down what each pose means you would never do it again as a professing christian
01:10:25: I know a lot of a lot. I know a lot of professing christians that do yoga because They they think that they're they can divorce the religious aspect from the physical
01:10:35: And and as you just said they can't do that because each one of those poses Is actually a it's a torture pose to get you into the the act of worship
01:10:45: Of a of a specific deity, you know It cannot be redeemed. It absolutely cannot be redeemed stretching is good exercise.
01:10:53: Absolutely important But not the yoga poses even if you call it holy yoga
01:10:59: Even the woman who started holy yoga has some very troubling theology So we should stay away from it.
01:11:04: Yeah, let me and let me address that so I went to a church years ago where The pastor was actually on the board at holy yoga and his wife taught it.
01:11:13: Okay, and so He got on the board because he was more he wanted to see them use it for evangelism and Uh, you know his wife was you know using it for that purpose and so But he discovered that they had a lot of teachers who were lesbians
01:11:33: And so he was like you can't know this can't happen and and they had people on the board who some
01:11:39: I guess didn't have a problem with it or whatnot and Um, but but you know, he kind of cleaned up the board but You know, they're making so much money that They had to basically decide
01:11:53: The government was saying you have to be for profit And so he got off the board Because what happened was he he wanted it to be that they that the non -profit
01:12:02: That has the accountability is over the for profit And a founder did it the other way where there's less accountability
01:12:11: Okay, so this has become a major money maker. Oh, yeah Including the the company that puts the um mandatory yoga in public schools for elementary children
01:12:23: And it's called the joyce foundation and they actually pay the schools to let them put the
01:12:30: The classes in there and they have we have documentation that they're doing it to evangelize hinduism to children
01:12:37: And they have the kids saying namaste, which is a blasphemous statement that the god within me recognizes and honors the god within you
01:12:44: And saying um, which supposedly is the vibration of the universe And Indoctrinating these kids and i've talked with moms several moms who said that their kids
01:12:55: When they got involved with yoga suddenly started having demonic nightmares and bedwetting and they could no longer focus
01:13:03: So it's not making the kids Calmer like it promises their grades aren't going better.
01:13:09: And then another man that I interviewed A doctor down in san diego a christian doctor
01:13:15: He said that he's getting lots of cases of children getting injured from yoga because their bodies can't handle the stretches that are involved as well as adults getting injured from it, so Yoga just is not something that any professing christian should be involved in there's a question.
01:13:31: I wanted to pop up here I was going for doreen. Um, rebecca Birschwinger She said doreen.
01:13:39: Have you heard before you get let me say who she is So folks know she is one of our podcasters on the christian podcast community has a podcast called one little candle
01:13:48: Uh, and if you listen to theology throwdown that we just released this week She was on there as we talked about the situation with israel.
01:13:54: So Now now go ahead and read it. Okay, so uh and rebecca you need to reach out to doreen and get her on your podcast um
01:14:02: Doreen have you heard of the praise moves, uh, the christian alternative to yoga? And if so, what are your thoughts on it?
01:14:08: I and they're i'm gonna be honest and up front the reason that I Want to want to have this discussion personally since i've come in and andrew drugged me in No, no, since since I since i'm on here with anything
01:14:23: But the reason I'm on here is I have friends of mine that are in yoga and they are they claim to be christian
01:14:29: And they will not listen to me talk about this uh at any time so if if if they can listen to Somebody else influence and teach them about it that praise the lord for it
01:14:39: Is that is that like how you won't listen to us talk about how pfizer was? You're bad with the vaccines
01:14:48: Which one's demonic so you go By the way, rebecca is saying she would love to have done.
01:14:54: Uh, well, it's so nice to meet you sister rebecca and yes I have done a little bit of research on praise moves
01:15:00: But the trouble is I don't have it in front of me right now So I don't want to misquote but there was a reason why
01:15:06: I dug into it and then did not recommend it But I cannot remember exactly what the reason is at this moment
01:15:13: Too many things to study and research I found something troubling on there that caused me not to recommend it.
01:15:20: I do remember that I if someone wants to stretch I would be more inclined to recommend the stretching that physical therapists give injured clients
01:15:29: Which i've used my mom had to go through physical therapy So I started using those stretches where you're in a doorway and you lean into it and they're very neutral There's no spiritual component to them at all.
01:15:42: And I think that's what we need to be doing you know, I wonder you so I have a background in martial arts and Back when
01:15:49: I started it was very much tied to you know the the eastern religion as well and people said you couldn't redeem it and they're like People told me
01:15:59: I I wasn't saved because I was doing martial arts and and things like that And there were some places where they did get into all the spiritual stuff and but most did not um, and I think now it's it's completely removed from any
01:16:14: Uh any of that I mean you have different styles like brazilian jiu -jitsu doesn't have any of that. Um so You know,
01:16:22: I wonder if it's if it there is somewhere can be redeemed in a sense as being seen as just stretching uh
01:16:29: But but you're saying it would have to be removed from all of the specific Without a spiritual component no spiritual component because this is the thing.
01:16:39: Why do we have to call it holy yoga? We don't have to argue and justify baseball. There's no holy baseball or holy volleyball or holy swimming
01:16:48: Well, why yoga because people know deep down that it's violating god's law Well in every time you're talking about yoga and any any of the forms that are being that are being made out
01:16:58: All the forms are worship All all the forms. I mean, so if you rename it, it doesn't matter
01:17:04: You know if instead of just saying, you know namaste, you know, so you say, uh, you know bless you or whatever
01:17:10: And you're intending the the meaning behind it You know, that's where you have to look at the what's the meaning behind those things.
01:17:17: It's funny you say that um pastor justin because Women argue with me all the time about this and I i'm not going to back down So don't even try to change my mind.
01:17:26: But one of the things they tell me is god knows my heart God knows my intention and you know what
01:17:32: I say to them. I say yes, he does and you should be scared of that That's right. That's you're you're in rebellion right here
01:17:39: Yeah, I mean he does know our heart he knows that every time we lust he considers that adultery every time we're angry He considers that murder
01:17:46: Uh, so yeah, he does know our heart and that should cause us to be afraid exactly
01:17:52: We shouldn't use that as a justification of sinning Yeah. Yeah. I remember somewhere.
01:17:57: He said something along the lines of The heart being deceitful above all things and desperately wicked Yeah, you know so if that's the case
01:18:04: I would not want to use that as a justification for whatever sin that I can I can Conjure up and then try to christianize it.
01:18:13: I mean, you know, but you gotta think you know christians Around this around the world and i'll say especially in america love to christianize sinful things in the world
01:18:25: You know, there's a lot of love for you know christianizing sinful things and trying to say it's okay.
01:18:30: It's not that bad It's not that big of a deal And it just shows their where their heart is for the lord Yeah yeah, and then of course christians will want me to go to paul saying that the meat that was uh praised over in the pagan temples is an example of how
01:18:46: Yoga can be redeemed and and that doesn't even anyway Match up with yoga and and he also paul says that if it would cause someone to stumble he would not eat the meat
01:18:58: And a woman who's a professing christian going to yoga class could easily cause someone to stumble
01:19:04: Because what she's doing is she's saying? Oh christians can do a pagan practice and maybe she's in a very innocuous place taking yoga in a ymca where there's no
01:19:15: Flax of alm or statues of hindu gods But that person who sees her and knows she's a christian doing yoga might end up in a yoga studio
01:19:25: And those are dens of paganism. That's where I spent over 20 years There are shiva statues and buddha statues and you pray to those statues you do guided meditations that are
01:19:37: Occultic and new age called shavasana or the corpse pose in those places It's you don't want to cause someone to stumble so You know, let i'm gonna i'm gonna take it again to the martial arts because people made claims like that with martial arts
01:19:53: And here here's the thing though um There was a time where people who would do karate that would be the case
01:20:01: There was a time here in america where that that what it it definitely had a spiritual component to it and There was it
01:20:09: Some that you know a christian shouldn't be doing in there was there was a time when it had the that connotation
01:20:17: It doesn't have it now. So I wouldn't have an issue with people doing it now. However Yoga hasn't removed that connotation yet.
01:20:25: No, they brag about it. Actually. Yeah so for people that make that the argument, I don't think it holds because It's it still has that connotation
01:20:36: Yeah, it's it's not spiritually neutral and Go get some physical therapy books or go online and find what a physical therapist says for stretching
01:20:46: And it's actually I think more pleasant than yoga practice And they do They do have places that do stretching.
01:20:53: I mean people say well, they want to do it as a group There's places that they'll do group stretching so you know
01:21:00: So some of the things let me just rattle off some things that we had here justin it says here Uh, hey justin nice to see you back on the show.
01:21:07: See you you were missed and melissa says Miss you jp. Oh See you you were missed and and you know,
01:21:16: I I made a crack. So mr Mr. Tracy is saying is he saying pfizer's not demonic? I appreciate that.
01:21:23: Thank you. Yeah. Um Yeah, no, I I think it I think pfizer is demonic but since you know, someone's someone's wife works there, you know
01:21:31: They they may not agree Maybe see the the thing is is what you're conflating with demonic.
01:21:38: See there's a there's a logical fallacy. It's called conflation and what you're doing is you're saying something's demonic and and so the implication is that the the entire the entire uh
01:21:50: Business and all the people are demon. Well, no see see mr. Tracy's saying that what i'm saying is
01:21:57: That their company just knew what they were doing and since they've said that now, you know, just saying okay, so Uh, andrew andrew says this is he's from down under in australia
01:22:09: So he says what gets me is that these people seem to be able to back to the the demonic
01:22:15: Uh stuff we're talking about with the uh, uh Oh what I I hate getting older the words just deliverance ministry deliverance ministry
01:22:24: He says when it gets me is that these people seem to be able to identify when others have a demon in them
01:22:30: But they they can't notice like if they have a demon in themselves, right? Kevin is saying here.
01:22:35: He says kevin says glad to see doreen on here I've been following her since I got saved out of the new age
01:22:43: Oh, praise the lord for saving you also out of new age brother kevin I would say you need to come in here and and share that yourself.
01:22:50: That's that's what i'm thinking um so yeah, you know, this is the thing like This is so so let's let's talk a little bit more and and I I noticed a little bit ago
01:23:01: Just when you came in that cold dropped for for regulars that you know Of the show cole
01:23:08: It hasn't been seen for a while last week We we mentioned that and he popped back in which was which was good and I was about to go to him just as justin came in and He dropped so sorry about that cole.
01:23:19: Um, so let's let's deal a little bit with the the new age the one of the things that I find
01:23:27: Is that the the teachings of the of what we call new age we see it in a lot, right? We see it in the eastern religions.
01:23:34: We see it in gnosticism. This isn't a new thing It's I think what it is it's something that It appeals to people's flesh.
01:23:44: It appeals to people's just wanting to feel good I think it And this is a generalization.
01:23:52: I get it, but it it seems to be more Attractive to the women being more feeling based
01:24:00: Uh, but it is it's got this connotation I believe and and you're the expert you could tell me if i'm wrong
01:24:07: What I think it it does for many people is give this Feeling and this thought as if they're superior.
01:24:14: They're they're enlightened. They have a little bit more and so when when someone like me Criticizes it i'm i'm not enlightened.
01:24:22: I'm not as as smart as them or i'm as enlightened as them is what they would say um
01:24:27: And therefore they they don't really give a lot of credence to what I would say now,
01:24:33: I guess in your case doreen, they can't say that because You believed it taught it and and you know did did seminars whatnot on this so I think that that's that I guess what i'm saying is it seems that they have an emotional reaction
01:24:51: When you criticize this very very much of the way I think that many charismatics have an emotional reaction when you say that you believe the gifts have ceased because they tie up their spiritual spirituality with their with their experience and so you're saying the experience isn't good it's you know, they
01:25:10: They tie those together and I think that I get the sense or I always have That new age is similar in that way that people tie their spirituality
01:25:22: To this enlightenment that they think they have and so if they're
01:25:28: If their beliefs in new age are wrong It I it seems like that leads to the thinking of well, then i'm not an enlightened person
01:25:36: But I want to be enlightened. Is that yeah, it's very very narcissistic. I mean, it's genesis 3 on eternal repeat where this promise of You you'll have you'll have
01:25:48: Wait, wait, you're gonna have to repeat that I've never heard that before and I love that well, it is it's that promise of secret wisdom that you're going to get and you'll be better than someone else and I I was living proof of that.
01:26:00: I thought I thought I was a christian, but I called myself an open -minded christian and I thought that the born -again evangelicals were fear -based guilt -based and Closed -minded
01:26:13: And and I didn't know about the narrow path back then you have to be closed -minded you have to You have to so I get that now, but at the time
01:26:20: Um, I was just like you were describing andrew. I thought I was superior And even more the gospel was shared to me throughout my life.
01:26:28: I mean I grew up in the 60s when there would be gospel preaching pastors on tv regular tv and even
01:26:36: Billy graham with his ecumenical issues would go on johnny carson and share the gospel back then I mean, so I was exposed to it.
01:26:43: My neighbors were mostly baptists and and uh, And I actually went to a baptist vbs as a child with my next door neighbor so but the thing is
01:26:53: You are brainwashed in the new age to believe that if you have any negative thoughts something horrible is going to happen
01:27:00: I mean, it's like how kids say if you if you step on the crack in the sidewalk, it'll break your mother's back
01:27:05: It's like that. And so you just have this this complete Uh phobia, which in itself is negative to negative thinking
01:27:14: So if I if you came up to me as a new ager andrew I would have been defensive because I would have thought that you had negative thoughts
01:27:24: So you're therefore inferior. You don't get it. Yeah, your negative thoughts are creating your problems and that's why
01:27:30: I couldn't see that I was a sinner and couldn't be saved until God used deuteronomy 18 to convict me to see that.
01:27:38: Oh, it's right here in black and white. I am a sinner I have broken god's laws. I'm a detestable abomination to god
01:27:44: I didn't know that for 59 years of my life because I was just told that i'm perfect whole and complete god
01:27:51: We we would rest on genesis 126 that we were made in the image and likeness of god and therefore god's sinless
01:27:58: God's perfect. So i'm in his image and likeness. I'm sinless. I'm perfect, too Yeah, I think what's amazing about the whole discussion here is uh how it ties and I keep tying it back to what i've been studying with the
01:28:12: The pentecostal charismatic movement they have what's called the positive affirmation uh movement where you can speak truth you can speak things into existence and if you if you speak positively
01:28:26: Uh, you're gonna you can speak to yourself wealth. You can speak to yourself, you know happiness
01:28:32: Joel Yeah, and you think about that.
01:28:37: It's the same thing you're talking about. So um, I was actually watching a video from uh ligonier from W robert godfrey and he talks about the pentecostalism in his new church history survey and and he was talking about the history of of the these movements and saying
01:28:58: That they're all appealing to something that is in an innate in every person And that's a desire to find and know god on their own apart from by their own effort, but apart from The the inner working of the holy spirit the way god truly does it
01:29:15: You know, they're they would say that they're seeking after god or they're seeking They're speaking spiritual enlightenment or whatever
01:29:23: And he would say he says that that is it's so tied into emotionalism That that is why that's the catalyst for all of this is that we are so emotional or a lot of people are so emotional
01:29:37: About you know about their you know, their felt their feelings they experience something
01:29:43: And since they've experienced these things Um, you're not unless the holy spirit does something you're not going to you know, talk them out
01:29:52: Of this of this experience they had they've had the fire of the lord. They had a fire tunnel at bethel church
01:29:59: They had you know, chris volatile Talked to them about you know smoking the spirit or smoking the
01:30:05: Toking the spirit or whatever. I think he's smoking something. Oh, yeah Talk about this stuff, you know, and it's it's it's it's so tied in with new age spiritism
01:30:16: And it's so much a part of it. But if you go back to people like uh, uh dowey John alexander dowey you go back to smith wigglesworth.
01:30:25: I heard you talk about him just a minute ago earlier You know you you mentioned him and I think you have some some well knowledge these guys were spiritists they were not christians you know you had um
01:30:36: Kathleen coolman, you know, these guys were were calling themselves god. They were saying that they were isaiah
01:30:42: They were channeling demons. They were channeling Everything they said you could manifest anything you wanted to manifest
01:30:49: You know your words had power and meaning you could do anything you wanted and and that's what we're Seeing in all of these different movements, you know, and it comes, you know
01:30:59: It comes out of this this positive affirmation. It does Yeah, I did some research on the law of attraction, which is something that's been popularized
01:31:09: From the the secret the book in the movie Right, and so the history of that is that there was a spiritualist
01:31:15: A medium named andrew jackson davis in the 1800s. It was 1846 Who wrote a book about the law of attraction and then 11 years later a russian spiritualist named helena blavatsky
01:31:28: Who was a satanist? Also, she wrote a book called isis Unveiled which was a best -selling book and it talked about the law of attraction use that phrase in there and and the the book also said in a
01:31:43: Gnostic way that lucifer was an Unsung hero that was he was a misunderstood hero and that Just complete satanism along with law of attraction and it reminds me of what you're saying pastor
01:31:59: Justin that this whole putting us on the seat of god as the creator Is part of the new age movement that you're in charge your thoughts create your reality
01:32:09: Your your positive thoughts create positive outcome your negative thoughts create negative outcome
01:32:15: Now the bible does say that in proverbs that a cheerful spirit is good medicine So there's nothing wrong with being optimistic, but this is idolatry of yourself
01:32:25: And you know when you look at job the final chapters where god says in essence to job
01:32:30: Where were you when I hung the stars in the sky? that's the kind of humbling we need as new agers because we start to think that we are god we're goddesses and But particularly when we know god is omnipresent that was a big thing we talked about in new age god's everywhere
01:32:48: We were pantheists and panentheists. So we we said well god's in us. Therefore we are god, too
01:32:54: It was it was so scary that we believed that way praise the lord for opening my eyes to the gospel
01:33:01: It's a very you know here. Let me find it d said. Yeah here here it is D says it's very self -focused going to the selfish desires and I think
01:33:11: I think that's why it's popular You know humble clay says sounds like psychological abuse and and yeah, it it is but this is not unique in that So melissa lex
01:33:25: And melissa lex by the way is another one of the christian podcast uh community podcasters her show is called thoroughly equipped and it is a show devoted to Really going through women's ministries materials and Closing some of the issues there.
01:33:41: So, uh, I I've I think that uh, hey melissa, you may want to have doreen on it with the series you've been doing
01:33:50: Just saying I think it would fit in well. All right. She's she says, uh new agers not only feel
01:33:57: They are in the quote unquote. No but god, uh Resonates within and are connected to the universal christ
01:34:08: They are little gods and this is this is the thing. This is why I titled the show unveiling the new age movement because The veil that people have that I see
01:34:19: Is this idea that I could be god I could be like god Or I am like god.
01:34:26: It's just how enlightened I am how much I accept that And that's the deception of it that's that's in in the the those who are using these
01:34:38: Ideas within christianity. They want to hide that part of it They don't always want to come right out and say it though I mean you'll have people that teach the little god doctrines and then deny that they teach it.
01:34:48: Oh, yeah, right. I haven't seen that So yeah, and and so they the new agers if you ask a lot of them they will say that they
01:34:57: Love jesus also Sure, and and so when you're evangelizing to a new ager, they'll say well, what's the problem?
01:35:03: I love jesus I follow him too and the follow -up question needs to be well, who is jesus to you? Yeah. Yeah, which jesus?
01:35:10: Yeah, which jesus because they'll describe your imagination. Of course. He's gonna like you You're like you made him up Yesterday I was talking to a woman who um is a is a kabbalist.
01:35:21: She follows the kabbalah And she started to argue with me that jesus also had studied the kabbalah this is big in the new age
01:35:30: Jesus has so -called lost years between 12 and 30. Yeah, those silent years
01:35:35: The silent years. Yeah, so her in her mind. Jesus studied the kabbalah and her argument.
01:35:40: Yeah That's before kabbalah started. Yeah. Thank you. Well, see this is her argument and i've heard this before that they argue that the
01:35:49: The bhagat of the gita the um the hindu scripture and that the kabbalah
01:35:55: Predates the bible And they always want to say that and it's not true historically and then they want to rip apart the bible that constantine
01:36:03: Took out parts about reincarnation And the roman catholic church took out parts and there's lost books.
01:36:09: They they always want to diminish the bible's authority No, I may I may have to agree with them though because there is a part of it that predates the bible
01:36:18: This where they got the teaching from now the serpent was Than any of the beasts of the field which fled
01:36:27: The field which the lord god had made and he said to the woman Quote indeed has god said to you.
01:36:36: You shall not eat of any tree in the garden unquote and a woman said that Uh to the serpent from the fruit of the trees
01:36:43: God said we may eat but of the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden God said you shall not eat of it or touch it
01:36:50: And the serpent said to the woman you surely shall not die Quote for god knows that in that day you eat of it.
01:36:58: Your eyes will be opened And you will be like god knowing good and evil unquote
01:37:05: So so in that sense, I might have to agree with them It does predate the bible not god, but the bible
01:37:12: Um when satan was teaching this Right. He's teaching that they're going to be enlightened
01:37:19: Right. Is that not what he says? Right? Your eyes will be opened. You're going to be enlightened. You're going to be like god
01:37:25: You're going to know good from evil This is going to be a little god Yeah, the argument is that because something's older I mean abraham came out of the chaldean ur and he was a polytheist probably because of that culture
01:37:41: But they're arguing that if something's older it's therefore more valid Which which which?
01:37:48: See right there though as we're seeing here is something older And it's coming right from satan.
01:37:54: Yeah, and so does that make it better? No And what should concern them is the fact that As I just read right
01:38:06: Their teaching comes right out of the mouth of satan There you go.
01:38:12: That should be concerning This is what I say to mormons all the time when they say they're going to be They're going to be god of their own planet.
01:38:17: No, and i'll say you know where we see that in the bible And they're like no where I go out of the mouth of satan in genesis 3.
01:38:26: Yes You have a demonic teaching That's not good, well, you know kenneth copeland he says
01:38:33: You know, whenever I read where god says I am I smile and say yes I am too and I I tell you what he says that all the time, you know, and and you know
01:38:42: It's that little god's doctrine is everywhere. Here's the thing for for folks
01:38:48: I mean like as you're saying that i'm just thinking of people who you know Okay, we cringe at this and You know, we have a tendency or maybe it's just me not you guys
01:38:59: I have a tendency to say man What's going to be like for that guy on judgment day?
01:39:06: Right, and there's a part of us that wants to see god's justice You know tear them down But on another note,
01:39:15: I mean think about this is what will it be like for many of these people on judgment day
01:39:21: When they suddenly come face to face with god and he is going to judge them for all of eternity
01:39:28: Because of their belief that they could be god And he's going to explain there's only one god and they're not it
01:39:36: And then they're going to be judged for all eternity and that's that's very concerning I mean, that's why this is it's extremely deceitful as to see it's uh very much deceiving and the problem with it is that these people get wrapped up into it and It is hard to pull yourself out when you convince yourself.
01:40:00: You're god When you've had when you've had an emotional experience
01:40:06: Where you think that you've touched god? Talked to god visited with god.
01:40:11: Yeah when you've had that that I mean, I I've watched um, uh, todd bentley at the uh at the
01:40:21: Lake lakeland revival and this has been a while back but it's still His what he taught has affected so many people bill johnson is still saying everything else.
01:40:31: He said that there were little children That were having trips to heaven And they were visiting with jesus and coming back and being anointed to little children and he said, you know, we've got
01:40:44: One one five -year -old he said we got one five -year -old boy in here And they had an audience of more than 10 000 people in that in that arena that he had
01:40:53: Um bill johnson mike bickle all these guys were right there And he said there's a little five -year -old running around here and he is anointing people
01:41:01: With the anointing oil from god and they shouted and screamed and prayed and praised god and and did music worship for No less than 45 minutes
01:41:13: Send the oil send the oil send the oil send the oil send the oil and people were pouring anointing oil you're talking about this
01:41:20: This oils they're pouring this anointing oil thinking it's giving them spirit power They have these little kids that are you know doing all this stuff and and it's still affecting people today
01:41:30: I mean, you know, you have the new age the charismatic movement and the pentecostal movement is the largest denominational quote -unquote movement
01:41:40: In all of quote christianity today Well, you know justin the the thing is if I was in a service like that where they're just saying
01:41:49: Anointing bring the oil bring the oil bring over and over again. That would that would probably put me to sleep You know,
01:41:56: I understand so You know, so really if if I was going to go to one of those places, you know what
01:42:02: I should do I should go to my pillow And get myself a good pillow before going to one of these services
01:42:09: And use the promo code sfe to not only get my discount off of that good pillow
01:42:15: But also support striving for eternity at the same time Because if they're going to put me to sleep,
01:42:21: I might as well have a good pillow to sleep on just saying Now see doreen's not used to how
01:42:30: I can how I do But yeah, so If you if you need yourself a good pillow, you know, it's you want to get a robe, you know, i'm trying to look
01:42:42: I i'm getting different gifts for christmas. This is you need christmas ideas. You got towels
01:42:48: They got robes. They got the mattress topper for the person you really love because that's you know
01:42:53: I'll just say that I do have an interview coming up on the rap report And uh, I was interviewing a pastor and he he said when
01:43:00: I got done explaining my pillow He says hey, can I give a can I give a plug for your for your sponsor? And he said he basically
01:43:07: They've had the same bed since they got married and he made the decision He either gets a new bed or he just went to my pillow and got their three -inch mattress topper
01:43:16: And he said it was like having a brand new bed again. Yeah So yeah, my husband that's all he'll sleep with is a my pillow.
01:43:22: I I got him a fancy new pillow And he's like, where's my my pillow? He had he made me go get it and bring it back
01:43:29: Mine it's it's packed in the bag right there waiting for for texas So yeah,
01:43:35: I I I'll take mine with me even when I went to israel and I was limited to one bag the pillow made it uh, so So one thing
01:43:43: I want to talk about guys for just a moment is this growing goddess movement. That's that's coming up um, it's an outbranch of the new age
01:43:54: With women who primarily tell me they've been abused by a man in their life
01:44:00: And so they're rejecting and they're not trusting men and they see That christianity is patriarchal with the male pronouns
01:44:07: And they so they want to worship something and they go and they worship goddesses And it's a nature -based
01:44:14: Theology where you go outside and you it's panentheistic where you think god or goddess is within the trees and You worship the moon which is supposed to be feminine
01:44:25: I was in the goddess movement for about a decade and it is something that I think is
01:44:33: The church needs to pray about and be aware of it and and counsel women who've been abused
01:44:39: That there are men that are trustworthy and that our father god is not like those men who hurt her yeah, and and so So You know,
01:44:51: I know we only have about 15 minutes there's some things I did want to get to On here. Well, first off i'll just put this one up melissa lex from thoroughly equipped says
01:44:59: I would love all caps love Going on. So so we'll have to make sure that we set up busy doreen
01:45:07: Um trying to be trying to get busy That's that my whole life is is, you know, I was hell bound and god saved me.
01:45:13: So anything I can do to um glorify god i'm all in Well, we'd love to have you come back on and you know
01:45:20: If you have more stuff to talk about because I tell you I I know that you know And i've you and I have been friends on facebook, you know, uh, we we met.
01:45:28: Um, I don't know how this is two years ago Yeah, I believe it's been two years ago.
01:45:34: Uh, we met and I came on the show with you And uh, and that was such a blessing for me, you know just to be able to come on and talk with you
01:45:40: And and i've seen so much of the work that you've done And I know that you have a strong passion for you know, especially for the ladies for women
01:45:50: Men and women but for I know that you don't try to step out and say hey, let me go teach everybody
01:45:55: But you're trying to help so many people see that the danger of this Of these movements and it's it's so needed.
01:46:03: It's so my heart breaks for the lost new agers because I was there Yeah, well, you know, there's a question on that soon
01:46:12: So so many people, uh that are talking like uh of these uh prayer labyrinths in their churches and then um, the
01:46:20: The what is that called anagrams? That too because there was there was some there was a question we had on that as well
01:46:28: There's a lot to do. I would love to talk about the enneagram real quickly if I could. Yeah.
01:46:33: Yeah It that that would be one that is affecting a lot and I know melissa did a show on that on her podcast as well
01:46:41: Yeah well My background of course is that I have a b .a and an m .a in psychology and a master's in theology
01:46:47: And and so as a psychotherapist I used to do personality tests on people and some legitimate ones like the mmpi
01:46:54: Is legitimate but the the enneagram? was the brainchild of a man who
01:47:00: Uh was a trans channeler an occultist who he actually Didn't care whether he was talking.
01:47:07: He said this he wrote this it's on his website He's deceased now, but his writings are there but he didn't care if he was talking to a demon or not
01:47:14: He just wanted the information so he trans channeled and I have a video clip of him admitting this the nine enneotypes and he he brought those in and those are a doctrine of demons that people are saying is christian because the marketing
01:47:30: Behind the enneagram has been this lie that's been exposed that it was from some ancient monk
01:47:38: And even that why would the church pay attention to some ancient monk? But but the reason they like the enneagram is it's a self -focused self -glory
01:47:47: Who who am I what's my identity when our identity is are you saved or not? Am I a child is adopted by god or not?
01:47:54: That's all that matters But instead the enneagram Elevates you and says oh i'm a one really.
01:48:00: Well, i'm a two. Oh, we're compatible And and it's just it's psychobabble and new ageism the worst of both
01:48:08: Yeah, let me see if I can get through some of some of these Just with the time we have and by the way
01:48:14: Folks, you heard the way justin said that to doreen We have to have you back on which means we expect to see justin back on right just saying
01:48:23: All right, so as soon as I finish my paper i'm coming back in so i'd yeah You know didn't just justin peters did his thesis on the charismatic church
01:48:36: Yeah, yeah Kate kt says all that repetition like transcendent meditation or something
01:48:43: Uh that and that's what it is. It's it's the idea. It's the it's just repetition repetition repetition
01:48:49: And you know where you know who started that? Katherine coleman she actually brought a band in and it was it was hours of mantra you know just Drum beats and everything else and that's what she did for hours and then she would come in and And that's where benny hen got his
01:49:06: I mean he He has videos where he goes to her grave and he's bowing down and he's worshiping in her grave
01:49:12: The lord because it's not her that he's worshiping But you know, he's he's he's doing this for hours
01:49:19: Uh talks about her and her influence on his life and he models her Yeah So so let me put this up because we got a prayer request that came in Uh, leslie said please pray for my daughter
01:49:32: Who is in wicca? Folks leslie, uh asking for prayer for her daughter.
01:49:38: I know folks out there already You know mentioned they're praying so uh, i've two two quick things left is uh, kevin says doreen would you say?
01:49:48: That psychics are generally communicating with demons Impersonating dead people.
01:49:54: That's a great question and something I usually address. So i'm glad you brought that up brother kevin Um, I was a psychic.
01:50:01: I was a stage psychic who was talking to people I'd never met and I was getting accurate information that I couldn't have known like names of their deceased loved ones
01:50:09: What their career was just how someone died next to them and and all that information was coming from demons.
01:50:16: Absolutely second corinth yeah, second corinthians 11 14 and 15 are in view because it says that satan masquerades as an angel of light and I would say that includes
01:50:26: Pretending to be our deceased loved ones and then 15 is people like I was
01:50:32: Seem to be servants of righteousness, but we were servants of the devil at the same time
01:50:37: And so I was channeling unbeknownst to me demons Um and giving people what seemed to be comfort, but it was messages that were not passing apostle john's test of the spirits from first john 4
01:50:50: Where we were not pointing people to the biblical jesus in these readings We were not pointing them to bible study or to join a biblically solid local church.
01:51:01: So we failed the test of the spirits Yeah Yeah, and you know, there's a little side note that is one thing
01:51:08: I love about our audience if you're not watching this show live and in the chat on youtube you're missing out but uh
01:51:15: Leslie just gave an update and all the people are praying are mentioning they're praying and that's what I love about this audience If you mention a prayer request the audience is is praying right away.
01:51:23: But and leslie said thank you She's her daughter's also choosing a lesbian lifestyle Uh, she wasn't raised that way.
01:51:30: So so that's that's the wiccan movement though. It's all women. It's all about goddess and Divine feminine and it's just it's woman obsessed
01:51:40: But it's interesting if you ask them they all believe in reincarnation and they will admit that they might come back as a man
01:51:45: Even though there's no such thing as reincarnation, but it kind of you can kind of put a stone in their shoe with that question yeah, so let me end with this question that was asked and I and this is
01:51:58: Regular listeners, you know, this is where I would have wanted to end anyway So i'm glad this was asked but barry moss is saying please discuss how to witness to these lost souls
01:52:08: Yeah, well, of course the gospel is the power of god unto salvation So they need to hear the gospel even if they reject it people who were telling me the gospel
01:52:17: I would get so mad at but god's word does not return void So they need to hear the gospel and one of the best ways
01:52:24: I think to share the gospel with a new ager Is listen for any if they do admit there's problems they rarely will but might just pick up There's some problems and say can
01:52:33: I pray with you? And new agers love to be prayed over Part of its narcissism, you know pay attention to me and while you're praying with them out loud
01:52:41: Whether you're with them physically or not, but they need to hear this put the gospel in that prayer Or or pray grace before you eat and be bold for the gospel put it clearly into saying grace
01:52:54: And and trust that that's the seed we're to plant and god does the rest Yeah, that's a really good point is you know people really they
01:53:05: Even if they're going to reject the gospel, they they won't usually reject someone praying for them I was down in florida and a pastor had there's a very very wealthy jewish man and the pastor
01:53:18: Uh his this wealthy man's Secretary would go to his church.
01:53:24: So he was able to set up a meeting and the um
01:53:29: You know, they they brought a missionary that was a you know Missionary of jewish people because they you know, they wanted to try to get the gospel to this gentleman
01:53:38: And so since I happen to be in town, they they said hey you you want to come so it's their show
01:53:43: I'm going to let them right they they had it set up. I was going to let them Uh talk and whatnot
01:53:49: And and they were just shutting these guys down. I mean he was just he wanted none of it He's willing to sit there and talk and and he's being polite and so you know,
01:53:59: I I took a little bit of a different tact being that you know, uh, He's in real estate.
01:54:05: My father's in real estate and and they live in the same state and he actually knew of my father and so, um
01:54:13: You know, I kind of used that to start talking but when we went to leave I just turned to him I said Because he he he just did not want to hear the gospel at any any, you know attempts
01:54:22: So I said can I just pray for you before we leave and he's like, oh sure and so I did like you said,
01:54:29: I I just prayed the gospel message and You know, he sat there, you know, he's not going to interrupt you like everyone's eyes are closed, right?
01:54:39: They're not going to interrupt you Right and and if they do you just keep going right and so It's it's a great way to to share the gospel with someone that is that way
01:54:50: And so and when we say well like what is the gospel? Maybe someone's listening because you saw a new age and you're you're actually
01:54:57: Saying hey, I don't like anything that i'm hearing tonight because I I disagree with all of it Well, and and you're hearing me talk or and doreen talk about the gospel.
01:55:06: What is the gospel? Well, the gospel is really this it's the fact that you and I even though you as a listener
01:55:12: Maybe i'm far more moral person than I am The reality is both of us have broken god's law both of us rightly deserve god's justice, which means
01:55:26: Because he's infinitely holy and infinitely just it means we have an infinite consequence.
01:55:32: So we deserve to be punished forever And so because of that we could never pay that debt off We can never pay the punishment but god
01:55:44: Those are two great words in the bible, but god He came to earth as a man
01:55:50: Being an eternal being he could pay an eternal fine Becoming a man having never broken the law.
01:55:56: He could pay the fine for us. He could be a substitute That's what makes jesus unique is that he could come to earth and Who he is he could pay that fine not only for me but for many others
01:56:09: He could do that for you Or he's done that because it was at the cross But you have to turn from trusting yourself.
01:56:16: Stop thinking that you could be god Stop thinking you could do good work. Stop trusting in in your good nature
01:56:22: None of that's going to get you right with god We have to turn to christ and trust what he did on that cross is the only payment of sin
01:56:31: So we turn from self and turn to christ and I know if you're in the new age movement that is really hard To do to turn away from self because so much of the new age movement is about self
01:56:45: But that's the problem That's what's going to condemn you to An eternal lake of fire if you don't turn to christ
01:56:53: So my plea with you is that you would do that that you'd be as Doreen has done to come out of that movement
01:57:02: And to come to know the true biblical jesus and have a saving loving relationship with him
01:57:10: Then You know, we we'd call you brother or sister, you know as doreen did with kevin earlier
01:57:17: We we'd love to hear that testimony if that is you even if you know If you're the one that's saying hey, guess what?
01:57:22: I'm still i'm new age. I still disagree. You could come in next week and let's talk about it because Uh, you know, we'd love to hear your side.
01:57:31: Look this show if you anyone who watches this show regularly, you know We're we let people explain their views when we had the gentleman for that want to promote gay christianity.
01:57:41: I didn't cut him off We we didn't get to his eight pages of notes because we kept trying to get to definitions
01:57:48: And he was too wishy -washy on definitions and we couldn't get a clear definition but The reality is we'll let you you know, say what you think and and explain your views but we're we're gonna critique it and and address it too, so um
01:58:06: But you have a welcome invitation to come in So doreen, I want to thank you for coming in.
01:58:12: I I hope this is very enlightening for folks in in a biblical way That is um, but there's a whole lot that the new this this new age
01:58:21: Eastern mysticism Has weaved its way into christianity in so many different ways that we're talking about tonight that some people may not have even realized
01:58:31: And so you know, I want to encourage you though with you know, you mentioned earlier, you know, you were living this way for 59 years and and you know now you're you're saved and you know
01:58:44: God brought you Through that because you are able to have an impact that Pastor justin can't have
01:58:52: I can't have I can't speak with the same authority on these issues that you can and So god has raised you up uniquely
01:59:02: In this way and and not uniquely you're the only new age that can do that came out of new age that can do this
01:59:07: I mean others as well, but but I want to encourage you that even though you you spent so much time in it and it might feel like a waste the reality is is that You know what?
01:59:20: This is is god bringing you through so you could be a blessing to many of us who
01:59:26: Didn't go through that but from from your all that you have experienced and and studied
01:59:33: Thank you. That's that's my prayer is to glorify god with my and then for him to use my past for his glory
01:59:39: So I appreciate that Amen. Yeah It's been a blessing. Yeah, so with that, um
01:59:46: You know we we thank you going on. Is there is there any good way for folks to get a hold of you and Yeah through instagram.
01:59:53: Uh, it's just my name doreen virtue just the direct messages. It's only me reading and answering
01:59:58: So i'm a little slow, but I try to get to everybody and if I don't get to you right away right again, and it'll pop to the top and and I answer everyone who's um kind if there's if they're really mean
02:00:10: I just don't answer those anymore i'll pray for you, but I'm not gonna answer you You know
02:00:18: Yeah, I was thinking of just getting like an ai program to to deal with those So so doreen one thing you can do is just send them to andrew
02:00:25: Yes. Okay. He gets all the I I don't get any mean emails from anybody Yeah, you forward them to me.
02:00:31: I know I I do forward a lot of them too, but I I do get mean emails too So it happens. Rebecca says you're going to be hearing from her
02:00:38: Fantastic, and I think maybe melissa as well. So so during thanks. Thanks for coming on folks
02:00:44: I don't actually have a plan for next week's show uh being that uh
02:00:51: I um What I may do I'm, just gonna let you know, we won't be doing a show on thanksgiving surprise.
02:00:59: No But if the video is ready by next week
02:01:05: I have a debate on wednesday when i'm out in dallas With an atheist with the topic of is christianity true
02:01:12: So if I have that video by then what I may do is just re -air that On the show and if not, we'll do that after thanksgiving
02:01:23: But uh, and so we'll either air that or do a live q a so an open q a so uh come prepared with questions just in case and uh
02:01:34: If not, you'll get to watch a good debate So with that just we want to remind you guys to strive to make today an eternal day