Ligon Duncan on the Moscow Mood - He Has a Particular Set Of Skills

All right everybody, here we go, here we go.

We've got another video on the old Moscow mood.

Yeah, let me fix my camera there.

It looks a little straighter, I don't know.

But yeah, we've got a video here, it's called Mocking and Slander Is Not Going to Fix

Evangelicalism.

Very interesting, this looks like it's gonna be a good one.

This is gonna be a banger, I think.

So what we've got here is we've got Ligon Duncan, who I haven't really talked

about on the channel in a long time.

Ligon Duncan, an elder statesman of Big Eva.

And he's got some things to say about the Moscow mood.

Wonder what we're gonna get, I mean, Ligon Duncan, the last time I talked about Ligon Duncan was that time when

he was talking at, was it T4G or was it something else?

And he did that fake crying thing.

I'm sorry brothers for my blindness.

And he was coming to say, I'm woke, I'm woke now, sorry.

You know, that kind of thing.

I don't know, the fake tears.

I don't have any respect for the fake tears.

But at the end of the day, Ligon Duncan is an elder, so let's hear him out, let's see what he has to say.

I don't know what to expect, this should be interesting.

This should be interesting.

And of course, we've got the guy here, I forget his name.

His podcast is called Room for Nuance, so you know it's gonna be good.

Seems like a cool guy, actually.

I mean, I remember, did I talk to this guy or was it the other guy that I talked to?

They had like a co -hosted podcast for a while and I was a guest on it, but my episode never

aired.

And I know why that was, of course.

But they never aired it.

It was about should Democrats be church disciplined?

And it was awesome.

I mean, I made an airtight case that they should be.

And they were, of course, looking for nuance there.

And there really isn't any nuance there because the Democratic platform is, top to bottom, satanic,

so it's pretty easy.

You shouldn't have people that have satanic politics in your church, but hey, you know, that's how things go in

the nuance world.

But let's hear him out.

Maybe this is gonna be good, you know?

Maybe it'll be good, let's find out.

This is not meant to be like a click -baity kind of ooh for the views question, but so just so

you know what's coming.

When you start that way, that's how you know it 100 is a click -baity for the views

type of question.

That's how you know.

Because when it's not click -baity, you don't have to start it that way.

By the way, what's wrong with click -bait?

Click -bait's okay.

Click -bait is, click -bait's okay.

The problem with click -bait, as I understand it, is when you say your videos about something and then

it's not about that thing, or it's about the opposite thing.

Like that's, hey, have I been guilty of click -bait?

Yeah, maybe.

Maybe.

Ha ha ha ha.

What's wrong with click -bait.

Anyway, yeah.

Genuinely want to know, thoughts on the Moscow mood conversation?

Yeah. Yeah, I think.

I really loaded that up, didn't I?

I think Kevin did a service to us writing on that.

I think Kevin realized that he was gonna take a lot of incoming on that.

He told me probably a month or two before he was ready to release that, that he was doing it.

Well, he brought it up at ETS, remember?

He was like.

Look at this guy, he's pretty jacked.

Guy's pretty jacked.

I gotta say, I mean, he looks pretty jacked.

He's guy's all tatted up too.

It's pretty good.

It's pretty good, yeah.

They're talking about the Kevin DeYoung article about the Moscow mood, which I think we did cover.

And it was an interesting article and I think we handled it the way it should have been handled.

So I guess that was a great service that Kevin DeYoung did for us, the Moscow mood.

All right, all right, let's continue.

Gave me sort of an early draft of it.

I think it's a good warning to send right now.

I think there are.

You gotta understand, this is something that, sorry for, I mean, I'm not gonna apologize.

I'm not gonna apologize for interrupting because that's what I do.

But hold on a second here.

I'm watching my baby, but he's not,.

I thought he was crying, but he wasn't.

In any case, this is something that you have to understand they do.

Everything Big Eva does is very calculated.

And they share it around and they, of course they're getting advice from people and there's nothing wrong with any of this stuff.

But don't ever think, my point is, there's nothing wrong with that.

Don't ever think that people in Big Eva operate kind of on their own.

They have to approve everything.

And it goes through a rigorous screening process and they have to make sure that nobody steps out of line.

And so that's why they never do.

You know what I mean?

That's why they tend to be in lockstep.

And that's why I encourage every single person that doesn't walk in lockstep.

Very important.

There are some people in our culture today who are saying that

this is the model of faithfulness, lob grenades.

Whenever he's talking, I want you to think he's talking about Doug Wilson and his friends.

He is saying that Doug Wilson and his friends think that the model for faithfulness, the model

for faithfulness is lob grenades.

Now, I'm not gonna dispute that Moscow lobs grenades because of course they do.

But it is also beyond dispute that they don't consider that the model

for faithfulness.

Faithfulness looks different in different contexts.

And so faithfulness for a soldier on the battlefield looks a lot different than that same

soldier when he's at home with his children.

You're still being faithful, but the contexts are completely different.

Or that same soldier when he's at church.

Or that same soldier when he's doing something not military related.

So it's beyond dispute that Moscow does not say that this is the model for faithfulness

in the church today.

Here is what is going to happen in this video.

This is my new prediction, okay?

Now that I've kind of seen where he started, I think I kind of know where this is gonna go.

He is going to lie to your faces because he has no respect for you,

he has no respect for his audience, and he cares not for the flock.

And so he's gonna lie, but he's gonna do it in a very

gentlemanly kind of a way.

He's gonna do it with soft tones.

He's gonna do it with buttery words.

But there's war in his heart, and he's going to lie like the devil to you.

He's gonna say that Moscow says this, and Moscow does that, and Moscow does this, and he's going to lie

every time by omission.

If you only know what he's saying about Moscow, they're the worst people in the planet.

But the problem is he's lying by omission.

You see, there's different ways to lie.

And there are some ways that idiots lie, where it's very obvious that they're lying, but the skilled

liars, they tend to be lawyers.

The skilled liars, they tend to be lawyers, they tend to be journalists.

And unfortunately, they tend to be evangelical leaders, where they lie

without lying.

Because it's true that Moscow thinks you should lob grenades and that is an example of faithfulness.

However, it is untrue that they think it's the example of faithfulness, and that it applies indiscriminately,

and that it applies no matter what the context.

He's freaking lying to you, but he sounds gentlemanly, and he's expecting that to carry the

day.

That used to carry the day.

That used to carry the day.

It doesn't anymore.

Let's see if my prediction is right.

And I think it's really good for guys like Kevin himself.

Kevin's got backbone.

Kevin is willing to speak into things that he knows are gonna get people upset.

He's down for the fight.

He's down for it.

But -.

All true.

That is all true.

And this is yet another example of how you know that Ligon Duncan is a

fork -toothed liar.

Fork -toothed?

Forked -tongued liar.

Because I would be one of these guys that's in the Moscow mood that they're talking about right here.

And if you go back to my video on Kevin DeYoung, I specifically

said the very same thing about Kevin DeYoung.

Kevin DeYoung has street cred, because Kevin DeYoung actually does have backbone, and he

actually does fight, and he fights in a very different way.

In a very different way.

And what did I say in those videos?

I said, I am grateful for that.

Because Kevin can be effective with people that I cannot be effective with.

And the body of Christ needs all kinds of people.

We need Ezra's, and we need Nehemiah's.

And they work very differently.

Both being faithful on the same issues and the same controversies, both acting and approaching it very

differently, different moods, both being faithful.

And I said, Kevin, all I'm asking for is an acknowledgement that I can reach

people that you can't.

And that I can be effective, and that I can be faithful in ways that you aren't.

And we can both be being faithful, approaching different things differently, and sometimes the

same things differently, and the body of Christ needs all members.

That's all I asked from Kevin DeYoung.

Because it's not the way of faithfulness, it's a way of faithfulness.

And so Ligon Duncan lied by omission.

Let's see if he continues.

That doesn't mean that you are the most faithful when you are lobbying the most grenades

indiscriminately in every direction.

That's right, yeah.

And when you are doing -.

Indiscriminately in every direction.

You are a liar, Ligon, Dr. Duncan, you are lying.

And it doesn't matter that you're my elder, you are lying.

And I can see that you're lying, and everyone else can see that you're lying.

And it doesn't matter if you lie in nice tones and buttery words.

We see what you're doing, man, we see.

Doing click -baity stuff on, you know, it's one thing to LARP faithfulness and courage

on social media.

It's another thing to do it in real life.

Here he is again.

Remember, he's talking about Moscow.

And he's saying, it's one thing, this is a skilled liar.

Ligon is a skilled liar.

It's one thing to LARP online.

It's another thing to do it in real life.

What impression would you be having if you knew nothing about Moscow while they're just LARPing on the

internet?

If you know anything about Moscow, you understand that they're all about

real life faithfulness in every area of life.

You cannot go to that town and not run into a faithful Christian being faithful in everyday

life.

They are making a Christian town.

But Ligon, again, he's lying without lying.

This is skilled.

This is the thing.

You gotta watch out for this.

There are lots of skilled liars out there.

Not all of them are easy to spot.

And this one, again, this is the kind of thing that Ligon can say.

And when you call him on it, he's like,.

Well, I didn't say that.

This is a skilled liar.

Ligon Duncan is lying.

And you've got a lot of live action role -playing going on in the social media world from guys

acting like they're tough that put them in a room and you'd have them in a fetal position in three seconds.

I love this, man.

I really do love this.

And people on both sides do this.

I know that they do this.

I get it.

Talking about keyboard warriors and saying, you would never say that to my face.

Yeah, I'll put you in a room and I'll get you in a choke hold.

And they say it on the internet.

It'll never not be funny to me.

It'll never not be funny to me.

Sure, Ligon.

You and I get in a room and your arguments will be so over the top

correct that I will be in the fetal position.

You win.

Hats off to you, Ligon.

You are the champion.

The internet video champion.

And it's not good for that voice to influence our young folks.

We are gonna have to cultivate backbone but we're also going to have to cultivate a

love for the world that hates us.

Bill Davis who teaches at -.

Again, he's talking about the Moscow mood.

So what are they doing?

They're cultivating a hatred or at least a lack of love for the world that hates us.

That's what they're doing.

That's what he's saying.

He's saying it without saying it.

He's skilled. He's skilled.

And he's one of these Presbyterian kind of leaders.

And one of the things about being in a Presbyterian, you have to get skilled at politics.

You just have to.

It's part of the game.

Unfortunately, it's part of the game.

I say unfortunately, but that's really not unfortunately.

It's just part of the game.

The problem is he's become a liar in the process is what he's done.

He's become a liar.

He's become an expert in propaganda and he puts on his suit and he speaks in hushed tones and buttery words as he lies to

you about other brothers in the Lord.

And by the way, the aggressive sort of, you know,

lobbing grenades and things like that.

No, actually, young people do need to see that as well.

They need to see faithful examples of that and they also need to see faithful examples of Kevin DeYoung style.

And both of those are needed right now.

We need both kinds.

We need Ezra's and Nehemiah's.

Now I'm willing to say that.

Are you willing to say that, Ligon?

I don't think so.

At Covenant College says that the most common question that he gets from his philosophy students is,

Dr. Davis, teach me how to love a world that hates me.

And that, you know, I said, I want them, I don't want them to get any of their signals.

From the world.

I want them to get all their signals from the Bible.

I want them to be faithful to the whole panoply of Christian doctrine, but I want them thinking, how can I

reach out to this lost world?

How can I love people that hate me?

Not, how can I make them hate me more?

How can I demoralize and demean them with every word that I say?

How can I drive them away from the gospel for the sake of branding and building my own?

Do you see what he's saying about Moscow?

All of these, he's applying this directly to Moscow.

Now, again, he's a skilled liar.

So he's not actually saying it, but it's all in that context.

So he is saying this about Moscow, that their mission is to drive people away from

the gospel as their church becomes bigger, as their town becomes more Christian, as

the fruits of the gospel are apparent for all to see.

He's telling you, their mission is to drive people away from the gospel, to

demoralize everyone in any time and to never ever offer the hope of the gospel.

Unbelievable.

It actually is shocking.

I'm not gonna lie.

This is shocking.

I mean, I did predict it after I saw the first few sentences of what this video was about.

So I guess I'm not that unbelievable, but I gotta be honest, like, does this guy know

how to blush?

I'm blushing for him.

This is actually going further than I thought it would.

How can you be so comfortable lying to people with such a straight

face and such an even keeled demeanor, just vicious lies?

It's pretty unbelievable.

It's pretty shocking.

It's pretty shocking.

I think one thing you need to realize is that,

it'll make your life easier.

It's not everybody cares about the things you care about.

Not everybody thinks about things the way you think about them.

Like you wouldn't lie about someone this way, but not everybody's like that.

Some people are given to lying and it rolls off the tongue like it's

their language.

It's their native tongue to just lie.

Sometimes you're dealing with people like that and you need to recognize that and it'll make your life better if

you realize that that's just the case.

And even in the church, this happens.

I've got some videos coming out about some controversies where if there's the amount of unbelievable lying

that happens is just, it's off the charts.

It's off the charts.

And even wound my brothers and sisters along the way.

Correct, correct.

And so I think that's, I really appreciate Kevin being willing to wade into that.

And I think underneath that, it's not only a mood.

There's a theological view of the church, of the gospel, of

fidelity, and there are problems at each of those levels underneath that.

I'm about to ask -.

And you see, this guy knows better.

I know this guy knows better.

He knows what goes on in Moscow.

And he's just sitting here and letting this liar lie to his face.

And he's like, yeah, ooh.

And he's like, you even hear some of the sounds when he's off camera.

This is the guy that's the up and comer and he wants a seat at the Big Eva table.

This is a guy that's on audition for that kind of thing.

And so he can't step out of line.

In fact, they probably talked about this beforehand and what they were gonna say, how they were gonna frame it.

This is, I gotta be honest, this has gone a lot further than I thought it would.

This is pretty sad.

Ask you about Big Eva, but because you are one of the patriarchs of it, I don't expect an honest answer

from you, but let's just play this game, okay?

Setting a low bar.

There were some interesting body language here.

Body language is, it's debatable, of course.

But when he's asking this question, there's some interesting body language here.

I'm about to ask you about Big Eva, but because you are one of the patriarchs of it,.

I can't even look at him as he's asking this question.

He's closing his eyes.

And in my opinion, I mean, I'm not an expert in this.

He can't even ask this with a straight face.

Oh, looks like my baby's waking up.

I am going to have to maybe come back to this.

Yeah, it looks like he's gonna be upset.

Poor little guy.

I'm watching him for a few minutes.

Yeah, there's some interesting body language there.

Let me, let's continue, see if we can get, anyway, I don't expect an honest

answer from you,.

But let's just play this game, okay?

Setting a low bar for me there, Sean.

He's like grimacing.

It's almost like it's painful for him to ask this.

There's some interesting body language there, man.

I don't know.

I'm not an expert, but maybe some of you experts in the comments can chime in.

I mean, what do you think when people talk about this shadowy syndicate, this big machine of Big Eva?

He's trying to make it seem like it's preposterous, but the entire time he's like, it's almost in pain.

He's like, he can't even look.

You know, this is one of the, this is a pretty good one in body language.

Like, you know, it sounds stupid, but like you look at things you like and you don't look at things you don't like.

And as he's asking this question, he can't even look.

He's like, oh, it's almost like he's in pain.

Very interesting.

Most of the conversation that I hear about Big Eva is complete nonsense.

And it is funny, some of the biggest critics of Big Eva, if there is a Big Eva, they're it,

you know.

Yeah, yeah, he really nailed me.

He really nailed that one.

Yeah, Big Eva, yep, that's right.

That's right.

Me, A .D. Robles, one of the biggest critics of Big Eva out there, he is Big Eva.

I am Big Eva.

It's like the emperor, I am the Senate.

I'm sitting here in my office.

I don't have any, I haven't finished my walls.

You know, I've got my fishing stuff is all right there.

You know, it's like a dual purpose office.

You know, I've got some gaming things going on around here.

You know, I got my weightlifting book.

Oh yeah, this is Big Eva Central.

That's right.

My chicken coop is right outside my window.

I closed the window so he can't hear the chicken.

When I'm producing these videos, I haven't, yeah, I got my $40 camera here.

This is an expensive microphone.

It was gifted to me.

So I do have this.

Maybe this is why I'm Big Eva.

Yeah, you really nailed us on that one.

I could name organizations far larger and more extensive than the

Gospel Coalition, for instance.

Yeah, but boy, do they hate the Gospel Coalition.

That hate the Gospel Coalition.

And they've got more money.

They've got more reach.

They've got more, you know, and they'll jump in on the Big Eva conversation.

So a lot of it is just nonsense and I pay no attention to it whatsoever.

Now, have people been disappointed by leaders unwilling to take

stands on important things?

Sure, I'm sure that's happened.

You know, welcome to the fallen world.

Yeah, that's you, Ligon.

We're talking about you.

You don't get a pass for not doing what you need to do because it's a fallen world.

That's not how this works.

I want us to be people of principle.

And sometimes that means calling out people that we love and care about.

But you can do that in such a way that is not, we have a culture in a

part of evangelicalism right now that is desensitized to its

own spirit of mocking and slander.

And that kind of goes back to the Moscow mood thing again.

Mocking and slander.

Moscow mood is mocking and slander.

Mocking and slander.

Very interesting.

This whole thing is about the Moscow mood.

And he's saying that they've got a culture, they've given into the culture of mocking and slander.

Very, very interesting.

This is an accusation I've fielded myself.

And of course, you know, there are times to mock and there are times to refrain from mocking.

There's times to tear down, there's times to build up.

That's actually a Bible verse.

There are times to aggressively, you know, kind of rip things, for example,

this video.

And there are times to be gentle.

You got to consider the context.

And I think we've covered this with Moscow, that they consider the context with this and do they

always get it right?

I mean, that's probably not, but they're trying.

And there's times for different things.

And we need to understand that there's a time to mock, but it's not always, but

there's sometimes a time to mock.

That's the point.

And so, you know, I not agree that we always get it right, but you have to agree that there's a time to mock,

right?

It's not a Christian way of dealing with anything.

And so -.

Yes, it is though, it is though.

Mocking, slander is different, right?

Slander is a very specific thing.

So I'd be interested to hear where he thinks people have been slandered.

I do not, I do not give him the benefit of the doubt for getting the word slander correct because a lot

of times people just use slander to mean you didn't agree with me or you were mean to me or something like that.

And that's not what slander is, obviously.

I'll tell you what slander is, what you've just done in this video to Moscow.

That's actually slander because you've lied about them.

You've said things about them that are not true in an attempt to smear them.

That's what slander is.

It's not disagreeing with someone, it's lying, which is what you've done this entire time.

But you see, it doesn't count as slander for these snakes.

I'm calling you a snake because you lie like a snake.

That's not slander because you just got done doing it.

But it's not slander in these snakes' view if you do it nicely, if you do it calmly,

if you do it with a suit on and you do it with your spectacles on and smooth words, buttery

language.

That's not slander.

But the minute you step out of that, then it becomes slander.

These people are sick.

They're sick.

Ligon, you're sick.

I think, in my opinion, you are a sick man.

And you need to take a good look in the mirror and ask yourself, why is it that I'm so comfortable lying?

I remember, I'll never forget, this is actually right around when I became a Christian.

I was in an adulterous relationship with a married woman.

I wasn't married, but she was.

And I remember, I had been going to church and I looked myself in the eyes in the mirror one day and I

said, oh, this is what happened.

She broke it off with me and I was mad at her.

And I looked myself in the mirror and I said, why is it that I'm so comfortable just completely ruining a

marriage, ruining a family?

She had a kid.

Why am I so comfortable with it?

And why am I so twisted that I'm mad at her for doing the right thing?

And I couldn't get over that.

There was something wrong with me.

There's something wrong with you, Ligon.

Many of those mockers and slanderers, I have no reason to even think they're Christians.

Can I pause you right there?

He's talking about Moscow.

Many of those mockers and slanderers, that their mission is to drive people away from the gospel.

I have no reason to believe they're actually Christian.

Now that's an opinion.

It's not slander, but it's an opinion.

He doesn't think, he thinks there are people in Moscow.

I'm assuming he's talking about Doug, but who knows?

Because skilled liars don't usually name it.

You can't fact check it.

But this is what he's saying.

This is what he's saying.

This is his perspective.

Man, this went really far.

Because I know somebody from that world will hear you say that and go, this guy doesn't know his Bible.

What about the prophets?

What about Jesus?

Look at the way Paul talks.

How would you respond to that?

Well, I mean, one thing is, Jesus was neither a mocker nor a slanderer.

Ooh, okay.

So when, and if you, by the way, if some of these folks had

been around, they would have been going, yay, John the Baptist.

Jesus, you're a weasel.

John is preaching truth to power.

Why don't you come out and say, why don't you go up and say, Herod, you fox?

Why don't you be like John?

And I think one of the things the Bible teaches you is there are different ways to be faithful.

If some of these people had been around, they would have been on Daniel like white on rice.

You're a sellout.

You work for the wickedest king in the world.

You are facilitating his wickedness and his ungodly rule.

Yeah, Daniel is a high -ranking official in a pagan empire with extensive influence

in how the empire works.

So in the Bible, you find believers in very different circumstances dealing differently.

Now, you know -.

This is the thing that a weasel typically likes to do.

He mentions that we would say Jesus is a weasel.

It's just not the case.

Obviously, that's insane.

But this is what a weasel does do, though.

They like to take things out of the real and put them into hypotheticals.

Because in hypotheticals, you can never be wrong.

You have your opinion.

You can never be proven wrong.

Because I could just say,.

No, I obviously wouldn't call Jesus a weasel.

That's insane.

But it's a hypothetical, so you don't know what I would do in that.

Nobody does.

But they like to take it into hypotheticals.

I notice there's a predator catcher, like a child predator catcher, Alex Rosen, who has a great channel.

It's a fantastic channel.

If you don't watch it, it's called like PP Catchers or something.

I don't know.

But it's so good.

And he often confronts this because he talks to a child predator and they always wanna take it into hypotheticals.

And he goes, look, I'm not gonna talk to you about hypotheticals.

We're talking about this situation right now.

But if you notice, did you hear what he said?

There are different ways to be faithful.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Right.

John the Baptist was being faithful when he said, Herod, you fox.

That's what I'm saying.

He wasn't a slanderer, obviously, but that's not what we're talking about here.

Yeah, that's the point.

John was faithful.

Jesus was faithful, obviously.

Daniel was faithful.

Ezra was faithful.

That's my point.

So what are you talking about?

Is Daniel willing to go to the lion's den rather than stop praying to his God?

Yeah, but he's still working for the government.

And there's some people that call you out today for that.

Wow, I gotta be honest.

That is, that was something.

That was something.

My opinion of Ligon Duncan was pretty low.

I'm not gonna lie.

I walked into this video, I expected it to be horrendous because I have a very low opinion of Ligon

Duncan.

The proof's in the pudding.

I saw the fake crying and all that.

He went, I mean, my opinion of Ligon Duncan is about as low as you can get at this point.

He just spent six minutes lying to you.

And it's not just the line.

The line is bad, but it's how skilled he is at lying.

How skilled he is.

He's so comfortable with it too.

He's just very comfortable lying.

Unreal, unreal.

I am very grateful to, what's this guy's name?

What's this guy's name?

Oh, this is funny.

I didn't even catch this.

I

guess

he's

not that skilled a liar.

Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness.

Oh wow.

I don't know if you caught this, but I scrolled down to see what this guy's name was.

And the first comment is,.

Wait a minute,.

Jesus was the one who called that Herod that fox.

So the example he's using to talk about mocking, Jesus is not a mocker.

People would be pro John the Baptist because he mocked Herod and called him that fox.

It was Jesus that called him the fox.

Oh man.

The example he used of what not to do, because that's not what Christians do,.

Is literally what Jesus did.

I got to look this up just to be sure.

I have to look it up.

Hold on.

Sure enough, here it is.

Luke 13, 32.

This is Jesus speaking.

And he said unto them, go ye and tell that fox, behold, I cast out devils

and I do cures.

It doesn't get any better than that, my friends.

I got nothing else to say.

I hope you found this video helpful.

God bless.