WWUTT 390 Q&A Bethel Witnesses Micah ShepCon?

How is it exactly that Bethel Church is such a heretical ministry? How can you witness to a

Jehovah's Witness? What's the meaning of Micah 3 .10? The answers to these questions and others when we understand the text.

Many of the Bible stories and verses we think we know, we don't. When we understand the text as an online ministry committed to teaching sound doctrine and exposing the faulty, visit our website at www .utt

.com. Now here's our host, Pastor Gabe Hughes. Thank you, Becky. And greetings, everybody.

My allergies are almost entirely cleared up. I'm still feeling a little bit of residual, but I'm not having to fight through this like I was on Monday doing the introduction to our study of First John.

Thanks for bearing with me through that and also for your prayers. And because my voice is cleared up, I've got a new what video to upload.

It should be hitting YouTube sometime later today. It's on being thankful for the president. Yeah, that's not a controversial subject at all.

Hey, it's Friday. And on the Friday edition of the broadcast, we take questions from the listeners. You can you can submit a question to our email when we understand the text at Gmail dot com.

And this first one comes from Bart McCurdy out in California. Always appreciate when he keeps me up on the news of the weird concerning stuff that comes out of Bethel Church, Bill Johnson's ministry.

Jesus Culture, the Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry, all the stuff that's connected with that church. We've talked about Bethel before.

They are heretics. Stay away from them. Bart drew my attention to an article that was published at nine marks just last week on March the first.

The title of the article is a book review of Bill Johnson's book When Heaven Invades Earth.

It's a 2013 book, but just published a review of this book. And David Schrock, who does the review, he concluded that Bill Johnson's teaching in personalizes the father denigrates the son and misrepresents the

Holy Spirit. Do not be deceived, he says. This book will only confuse the true power of the gospel.

He labels Bill Johnson a heretic and tells pastors to keep members of their congregation far away from the stuff that comes out of Bethel Church.

I so appreciate nine marks for being direct and straightforward on the false teaching that comes out of that church.

There's a video right now. Bart drew my attention to this as well. A video that is circulating on Facebook featuring a miracle that a miracle testimony that happened at one of these

Bethel church events. Here is the audio to that video. All right.

Well, my name is Tim Robinson, and I guess I've never been to a Bill Johnson concert or whatever this is.

I'm actually pretty skeptical about this kind of stuff. I was involved in a car accident before I even got here, like five minutes before I showed up.

And I had this horrible accident to me when I was about a couple of months ago. It happened in like November.

But I'm an electrician and I broke my wrist rollerblading, of all things, after 10 years. And the

Lord, I prayed and I asked God for healing, but nothing really happened. And I had 30 screws in it.

I had metal plates in it. And for some reason, right now, after we prayed, the

Holy Spirit has healed my wrist completely. It's it's all bone. There's no metal in it whatsoever.

There used to be a metal plate right here. I used to be able to feel a bunch of screws right here. And it's just gone.

It's it's no longer there. So in light of that, I'm no longer skeptical about this kind of stuff.

And I completely believe in the healing of the Holy Spirit. Did you feel anything while they were praying for you tonight?

Absolutely. What did you feel? OK, so I immediately, as soon as I got up and I even stood up and I was like,

OK, yeah, I would like this to be gone because I work as an electrician. So whenever I grip wire, it was really hard for me to hold on to it and to work.

And it was really frustrating for me. So when I got up, I immediately started to feel this tingling sensation in my wrist.

And my wrist like twitch and it's almost like it kind of came back a little bit. And I was like,

OK, that's kind of weird. But then it popped and it it doesn't pop because there's metal there.

So there's no reason it should pop. So I think that it was pretty much healed before anybody even laid hands on it.

I think the act of, I guess, me standing up and believing that he could heal it is just gone.

But it has a horrible scar there and I'll have to deal with that. But there's a that's that's fine with me.

I have a brand new wrist and I'm excited to see what

I can possibly do with it again. Oh, that's amazing. Thank you. Are you happy for Bethel Media to use this testimony?

Sure. Yeah. Thank you so much. That video was shared by Chris Volaten, Mr.

I can go weeks without sinning. What you don't hear in that video is any mention of Christ, any mention of sin, any mention of the gospel.

It's just this young man talking about what he feels in his wrist. And we don't have any hard evidence.

He says there's no more metal in his wrist, but he's not producing X rays. We don't know that. It's just what he feels.

And that's the way these miraculous things always work coming out of Bethel. It's just about what somebody feels.

You never hear about the gospel, which is the good news that Jesus died on the cross for our sins and rose again from the grave so that all who are in Christ have their sins forgiven.

We have right standing with God and we are now we now receive his life.

We have his eternal life where previously we were under the wrath of God in Christ. We are adopted into the family of God and can call upon him as our heavenly father.

That's the gospel. That's the good news. But Bill Johnson and Bethel Church have no concept of that as the gospel.

They believe the gospel is miraculous healings. Here's Bill Johnson saying that very thing.

Hebrews one says in times past, God spoke to us through the prophets. But now he speaks to us through Jesus.

What's the point? That message was for them. Jesus is for now.

Without that shift, there is a constant reproducing of an anointing and a ministry that is not for today.

Yesterday's anointing is like yesterday's manna. And so this ministry of Jesus that dealt with every single person that came to him with affliction or torment, he ministered to them.

That's the only standard to follow. I refuse to create a theology that allows for sickness.

Now, here we got a problem. Only one. It's a small one. The apostle

Paul gives a warning in Galatians, and he says this, he says, if I and he's the one who brought the gospel to him, he said, if I or even an angel comes to you and preaches to you a different gospel.

You had to reject it. That's amazing. An angel shows up and he brings you a different standard, a different gospel rejected.

He says, even if I come back to you and I change my mind, don't pay any attention to me. All right.

What gospel is it? It's the gospel of Jesus. It's the gospel of the kingdom. OK. Let me illustrate.

Paul refers to his thorn in the flesh, which has been interpreted by many as disease allowed or brought on by God.

That's a different gospel. Jesus didn't model it and he didn't teach it.

And Paul said, you can't change the standard. So there he says the gospel is the message of the kingdom.

But then he says a false gospel is God allowing somebody to get sick. So in Johnson's mind, the gospel is miraculous physical healings.

That's what he believes the gospel is. And God would never allow anybody to get sick. If you ever say that God would allow somebody to get sick, that's a false gospel, according to Bill Johnson.

So how does he handle Galatians 4, 13 through 14, where Paul says, you know, it was because of a bodily ailment that I preached the gospel to you at first.

And though my condition was a trial to you, you did not scorn or despise me, but received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus.

Paul saying to the Galatians, the whole reason why I came to Galatia and testified to you the gospel of Jesus Christ in the first place is because I got sick and I had to stop on my journey there.

And I preached the gospel to you. You also have Paul saying to Timothy 1, Timothy 5, 23.

No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.

He's not telling Timothy, hey, Timothy, you're believing in a false gospel because you've got stomach ailments.

What a con Bill Johnson is. Stay away from that guy. And I still

I still have people fighting with me on on email and on Facebook saying, oh, what a horrible thing for you to say.

He's a heretic. He's a heretic. It is a grace to you that you hear me say

Bill Johnson is a heretic. Stay away from him. And and everything that is connected with those ministries, the

Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry, Jesus Culture, Lou Engle with The Call, Mike Bickle with the

International House of Prayer, all part of that new apostolic reformation circle have nothing to do with them.

The scriptures say it explicitly. This next question comes from Henry in Canada.

He says, Hi, Gabe, I enjoy your podcast and I would like to thank you for your ministry. I have a question about the ideal way to respond to a

Jehovah's Witness. I have a Jehovah's Witness that comes fairly regularly at least once a month, and I would appreciate if you had any advice for how to interact with them.

Comes fairly regularly to church. That's great. I can't get them to come through the doors of my church. Anyway, so perhaps, you know,

John one one is a little bit different in the Jehovah's Witness Bible than it is in your

Bible. And we just read this earlier this week. John one one in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was

God in the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures, which is the Jehovah's Witness Bible. It says in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was a

God. So you can't argue with them on John one one. They will say, well, our translation is correct.

You really get nowhere with them on that. So instead, skip down to verse three. You can even let them argue about John one one if they want to.

Just take them to verse three, where it says all things were made through him and without him was not anything made that was made.

That's the English standard version in their translations. Not too much different, though. All things came into existence through him.

And apart from him, not even one thing came into existence. And they should agree that the hymn that's being talked about there is

Jesus Christ. They would agree with that, that that's according to their own translation. So here's what you do.

And this is an illustration that I'm borrowing from Greg Cockell, tweaking it a little bit from what it is that he does.

Greg Cockell from Stand to Reason Ministries. Take a piece of paper and divide it in half.

Draw a line down the middle, fold it in half, whichever way you want to do it. On one side of the page, which now you have two columns.

So on one side of the page, right. All things that never came into being. That's your category.

And then on the other side, at the top of of that category, you're going to write all things that came into being.

OK, so now you have two categories, all things that never came into being and all things that came into being.

So then on the left side of the page, underneath all things that never came into being, you're going to write

God and they'll agree with you on that. What never came into being? God, he's always has been.

All right, great. So you're writing that in that column. What is what are the things that came into being?

Under that column, you're going to write all created things, OK? And then kind of off to the side of that, draw an arrow to that column and write all things were created through Jesus, because that's what it says here in John one, three, all things were made through him and without him was not anything made that was made.

All things were created through Jesus. That's the all things on the right side of the page on the right column.

OK, make sure you're talking with your Jehovah's Witness through this as you're as you're illustrating all of this.

Next, you're going to hand them a coin, which you're going to say represents Jesus Christ. This coin represents

Jesus. Put Jesus in the box in which he belongs.

Now, immediately, the Jehovah's Witness is going to want to put the coin in the box that says all things that came into being because they believe that Jesus was created by God.

However, in that box, you've got an arrow pointing to that box that says all things were created through Jesus.

So if you set the coin there, you would essentially be saying that Jesus created himself, which is a logical impossibility.

And that's the conflict that they're going to be faced with when putting the coin in the box of all things that came into being.

So now they're stuck and they're looking at the other box that says all things that never came into being who is

God. But they don't want to put the coin there in that box because the Jehovah's Witness does not believe that Jesus is truly

God, that he never came into existence because he was created by God.

So this is just to provide sort of a visual roadblock for the

Jehovah's Witness. And don't try to like skewer them with your with your spiritual sword and say, ha ha,

I got you now. OK, just give them something to think about so that they end up with a conflict in their mind on on how to reconcile this situation.

They're going to realize that the logic, according to the teaching of the Jehovah's Witness, does not fit with this particular illustration.

It does not fit with what they're even what even their own Bible says. There's also a great video from James White called the

Forgotten Trinity. That's the name of the video on YouTube. It's an hour long. But toward the end of that video, he talks about using scriptures to point a

Jehovah's Witness to how their own Bible, how their own translation will show that Jesus Christ is the true

God who was not created, but always has been with the father.

So, Henry, I hope that gives you some tools to use on how to witness to a

Jehovah's Witness. His next question comes from Matt in Illinois. He says, Hey, Pastor Gabe, thank you for your time and energy in service to the

Lord. It's truly a blessing. You are welcome, Matt. My question is short and sweet. What is the proper interpretation of Micah 310?

Well, let's go there. Micah 310 says this very short verse who builds Zion with blood and Jerusalem with iniquity.

That's a very short verse. So what is the meaning of that verse? Well, the whole book of Micah, of course, written by the prophet

Micah, is like a lawsuit against the nation of Israel who have turned away from God and are worshiping false gods.

And this is about a hundred years or so before they have been exiled to the

Babylonians. So Micah is saying to Israel that God has the power to bring you into judgment, but also as shepherd and king, he will deliver his people back to him.

This is all what the prophet Micah is spelling out to the to the nation of Israel. So in chapter one, you have the coming destruction that is being warned about.

And then in chapter two and chapter three, you have an indictment against the rulers of Israel and also the false teachers.

They are bringing the people into condemnation with their false teaching. And so in verse nine, it says, hear this, you heads of the house of Jacob and rulers of the house of Israel who detest justice and make crooked all that is straight.

Verse 10, who build Zion with blood and Jerusalem with iniquity.

So the things that they are doing are leading to death and to sin. And this is the indictment that is being brought against the false teachers in Israel.

So that's the meaning of Micah 310. It is a call upon Israel to repentance.

But as it is also promised through the prophet Micah in chapter four, starting in verse six,

God will deliver his people from the judgment that was to come that was being exiled to the

Babylonians. OK, last question here. This is from Brian in Canada, also in Canada.

He says, hi, Pastor Gabe. It was nice meeting you at the Shepherds Conference this past week.

I forgot to ask when I met you, but I was wondering if you could share your discernment of your call to ministry.

When did the call come about? What prevented you from going to seminary at the time? Your family is in my prayers.

Thank you, Brian. Well, thank you for stopping me last week. It sure was a privilege meeting you.

So how did I come about my call into the ministry? Well, that's a difficult, a difficult question to answer, because I honestly don't remember.

I grew up in a Christian radio family. My dad started a Christian radio station in Columbia, South Carolina, then

Lewisburg, Pennsylvania, and then moved the family to Kansas, where I stayed. The rest of my family all lives back east.

I have siblings spread about in different states. I stayed in Kansas. I married a

Kansas gal, had Kansas kids, and I pastor at Kansas Church. So but anyway, I've had my own radio show from the age of seven and got out of radio at the age of twenty nine.

And in those twenty two years of radio, I served 18 of those twenty two years in Christian radio.

I was surrounded by Christian teaching programs. My dad taught me how to use scripture to interpret scripture.

He taught me how to preach even. And so part of my responsibility working in Christian radio was filling in the pulpit.

By the time I left radio, I had probably preached in anywhere from 80 to 100 churches, maybe even more than that.

So I had plenty of experience preaching. I preached my first sermon at the age of 17.

In fact, just a just a few weeks after I graduated high school, there was a there was a community wide church service in a town near where I lived.

And they had me come in and preach that community wide church service. About 300 people there or something like that.

It was like the third or fourth sermon I ever preached. And here I'm leading this community wide church service.

There was a period of time, though, in my young 20s. This was after college. So I did attend college, but I didn't attend seminary.

I had no ambition of becoming a pastor. And it was during college that I was not working in Christian radio.

I worked secular radio in that time from about the age of 18 to 22. And and during that period of time or just after college, rather,

I came into some false teaching. A lot of my college friends were attending mostly charismatic churches.

And so it was from that influence that I came into false teachers and started fitting that false teaching in the sound teaching that I had been taught from my youth.

And it took some sound men of God to come alongside me and say, hey, some of the things that you're listening to and what you're repeating is not biblical.

And so they showed me that. And I am grateful that the Lord gave me a heart to be convicted by that, that I trusted those men and led me back into right teaching again.

And I came into some more reformed teachers like John Piper. In fact, my dad used to buy

John Piper books and give them away on the air. And so I had read like a dozen different John Piper books came into reformed teaching that way.

I'd been listening to MacArthur and Sproul from the time that I was a kid. But I guess the reformed teaching just didn't just didn't catch.

But I also came into Votie Bockham. He was very influential on me at the time. Paul Washer's controversial youth sermon that's on YouTube.

I saw it on GodTube, though, the very first time that I watched it. And I started gobbling all that up. I mean, anything that was gospel centered, that's what it was.

I wanted to hear. I had gone through a really bad breakup at the time, had been engaged to a gal who was a preacher's kid.

She left the faith while we were engaged. And it was it was horrible, ripped me up. And so I ended up moving to another community and taking another job.

And then after doing that for a couple of years, I met my wife who would become my wife.

And she, while we were dating, knew that I was going to become a pastor. She told me that I rolled my eyes at her.

It was not my desire at all. But she said, I think you're going to become a pastor. I had no ambition to do that, wasn't even looking for it.

A friend of mine who was an associate pastor called me up and said, we have an associate pastor position

I think you should apply for. And I would become the music leader for that church. And so I went ahead and applied for it.

At first, I told him no. But then I did apply for it and got the job. And that came with an ordination.

So I was ordained in that church and served there for two years as an associate pastor.

The senior pastor stepped away and then I applied for the senior pastor job. My wife and I, we both prayed about it and wanted to know that it was what the

Lord wanted for me to do. And so I did. I applied for the senior pastor position. The church accepted me in that spot.

And honestly, they said, what took you so long? And I became the pastor there. And that's the church where I currently serve.

And so there was never any desire to attend seminary. And I would still like to go to seminary.

But time and money is the reason why I haven't. I do not recommend that anybody try to become a pastor without seminary when there are prospective seminary students or students who are in seminary that ask me, hey, can't

I just do what you did? Drop out of seminary and become a pastor. I tell them, no, you need to attend seminary.

There are things that you need to learn there at a certain pace so that you're progressing in those things slowly.

And you are being mentored by people who, quite frankly, know more than you do. You are learning about languages and church history.

And those are two of the things that I was not as experienced in when I became a pastor and have since had to learn those things.

And I'm still learning those things. And so those are things. There's an education that you receive there at seminary that you you just simply can't get on your own.

My story is very unique, and it's it's God's sovereign hand over the whole thing where I was born, the situation

I was born into growing up in ministry, putting a godly woman in my life who saw in me that God was going to lead me into the pastorate.

I mean, all all these things were it was God putting these pieces together. And I am his faithful servant to his word, teaching the word of God to my congregation and bringing them under that authority.

My preaching is only as good as the word of God in my preaching. And and so I'm, again, just grateful to the

Lord to leading me into this and using the gifts that he has given me for his glory, whether that's through programs like this, what videos and, of course, the way that I shepherd my church and my family.

So thank you for your question, Brian. And again, wonderful to meet you at Shepcon. It was a great time.

And the teaching is still kind of like little by little. I'm starting to apply some of the things that I heard last week.

I as I understand it, I think all the teaching videos are going to get up on the Shepcon website next week.

So if you didn't get the chance to watch the live stream, go to Shepherds Conference dot org and they'll have the archives up there on the website.

I want to thank Nate Pickowitz for helping me out with the housing. Save me hundreds of dollars in hotel costs because I got to stay with his aunt and uncle.

That was wonderful. And Nate's just a good friend. And it was great to spend time with him as well. Also, Fred Butler at Grace to you and Stephen Melnison.

Just everybody that I had the chance to meet. It was a wonderful week.

I look forward to the chance of being able to do it again. It won't be next year, though. My wife and I already have bought tickets to G3 in Atlanta, which is in January of 2018.

So if you're planning on attending G3, we'll see you there at that conference. That's going to do it for me.

We'll resume our study of First John on Monday. And if you have any other questions or comments you would like to submit to the ministry, send them by email to when we understand the text at Gmail dot com.

Don't forget, you can also follow me on Twitter, Twitter dot com slash pastor underscore

Gabe. We'll see you on the interwebs. God bless. This is when we understand the text with Pastor Gabe Hughes.

There are lots of great Bible teaching programs on the Web, and we thank you for selecting ours. But this is no replacement for regular fellowship with a church family.

Find a good gospel teaching Christ centered church to worship with this weekend. And join us again Monday for more