Final Textbook Discussion

we are going to we're going to go briefly over chapter 9.

I really enjoyed this chapter I think it was helpful in many ways primarily because of the one talking about the the best defense is a good offense you know going on the offensive going you know attacking their presuppositions attacking their when we say attacking you understand what I mean we're going against what they they think it is is correct but if you have your handout this was the handout I gave out last week which is the summary I want to use the summary to just simply point out a few things one of the things I think that dr.

frame really does a good job in this in this particular chapter one of the things I think dr.

frame does a great job of is demonstrating the similarity between atheism and idolatry because you know we often think of the atheist as having no God but it's not that he has no God he has just created a different God you know the old adage is true everyone worships something whether it is the God of their own making last night brother Andy gave a wonderful testimony I I know a few of you were here last night to hear him share his testimony but in his testimony he said that he in his midlife before he became a Christian not midlife young adult life he said he worshipped a God of his own making a God who basically did whatever he wanted him to do you know and he felt good about that God because that God sort of obeyed him and that's really what idolatry is you know idolatry is creating a God who is subservient to me you know you build the God and you bow down to it but who's really in charge when you were the master builder when you were the one who put him together so atheism comes along and says we don't need any gods but they immediately start to construct their own gods science is in many ways a God for people in fact some of you probably have heard this phrase some of you maybe not but there is a there is a a new book never mind this is both sides are being used I'll uh I'll write lower and to the right the word is scientism and maybe you ever heard of the phrase scientism scientism is different than science because what is science this should be unknown study okay the word science means knowledge that's where that's like we get the the word conscience what's the root of the word conscience science what is what is the prefix con mean huh means with who said that somebody yeah means with so conscience we're with knowledge of ourselves that means we have knowledge right that's what the conscience is self knowledge right and so when we talk about science it's knowledge so science is not a thing science is a process by which you get somewhere that's why we don't typically use science as a thing we say the scientific method and when I was a kid I remember the scientific method I remember the few little times I engaged in trying to put together things for the science fair you know I I had my science fair project with the little trifold board that you put up and you know I think one time I made a ant farm and I don't remember what I was trying to prove but I did an ant farm for a science project one time I tried to prove pressure points existed because I was doing karate and I thought that would be a cool thing so I just went around hitting people on pressure points to prove that they existed and and that was my that was again I had a hypothesis pressure points existed and here's the I'm gonna test my hypothesis I've just whacked people and see what happens and it was great but well yeah I wasn't a scientist but but we understand the method right the scientific method well yeah the scientific method is not the same as scientism scientism is the idea that science itself has become a bulwark of knowledge that is independent and is its own thing to be in that's the where the statement comes you don't believe the science they're not talking so much about the method as the declarations of science the science really declare things science discovers things science discovers patterns science discovers consistency a water always boils 212 degrees that's a consistent pattern all right so we find these things out and that's through the process of discovery but scientism is the concept that science itself has become something that is worth worshipping or worth elevating to the point of he said well they're not worshipping well yes they are they're putting it as the as the highest the highest goal the highest entity and they turn science into an entity that's the problem that's scientism turning it really into an entity so that's why I say atheism becomes idolatry they find something to worship some people do worship science other people simply worship self I like at the bottom and you'll notice I have it underlined for you it says atheism and idolatry need each other in fact they are one position apologists need to learn how to spot the contradictions and a non-believer's thought since that thought will contain irreconcilable elements of the rational and the irrational now that's where the chapter becomes somewhat difficult but in the chapter he's trying to help us understand that when we're talking to someone some of the things they say are going to be rational but some of the things aren't and we're deconstructing the irrational statements that they make in your book I said I wasn't gonna look at book but just for the sake of it look at page 206 he gives us three case studies against three different perspectives one is relativism atheistic relativism the second one is idolatrous rationalism and the third is atheistic idolatry let me just read off of the first one this is against atheistic relativism he says this when you find an unbeliever who stresses the atheistic relativistic side of unbelief be persistent in asking these questions how can you be sure that relativism is right when it itself rules out all assurance number two how can you live as a relativist having no assurance of anything must be terrible excuse me must be a terrible strain rationally emotionally and volitionally what basis do you have for making decisions what basis do you have for criticizing the treatment you receive from others how can you say that anything is wrong unfair or unjust what basis do you have for trusting logic or for that matter your own mind again he's calling himself a rationalist but the relativistic person is not rational because he is in a sense saying that all things are relative if that's true then that statement is relative and if all truth is relative then that statement cannot be true that statement can only be relative you see how they have to be both rational and irrational at the same time let's look at the second one he he talks about idolatrous rationalism he says when you meet someone who tends to stress the powers rather than the limits of autonomous thought and action you will likely be dealing with someone in the grip of an idol find out what his idol is and take aim by asking these questions number one what basis is there for thinking that this idol is absolute and two does your God really do the job of a God did it create the world is it the ground of logic mathematics ethical value and universal judgments and science is it adequate as a final standard of meaning truth and right see that's the way people treat science you know I'm not here to bash science tonight but think about people say I believe in science in the same way that they say it would say I believe in God we know that an impersonal God can do none of these things so the unbeliever will be tempted either to lapse into relativism or to grant to his God some elements of personality that's what happens when they talk about the universe the universe gave me good vibes today they heard somebody say that I got good vibes from the universe why are they saying that because they have to personalize something that's impersonal they have to turn the impersonal universe into something personal so that they can have a relationship because they have made it their God once he does the latter he is granting part of our case and we can pursue him further especially by asking him how do you know this person you ever had somebody tell you that they're sending you good vibes you ever ask him what does that mean because vibes is short for what vibrations what's vibrations about energy what's that got to do with Eastern mystical thought that we are all part of a universal energy that we all share in this universal energy flow that we all share within a positive and negative portion of that energy flow you have your yen which is your female or negative energy you have your yawn which is your positive and male energy or and and that's how you interrelate to the world just do that energy flow and therefore when you are going to have a bad day I'm going to send you good vibes but I can't believe in Jesus because that's ridiculous you see oh yeah absolutely so again not believing God doesn't take you to believe nothing it makes you believe everything anything I hope that your time in this class has been fruitful I hope your time in this book has been fruitful and I do hope you invest the time to finish the book at some point especially toward the back he gives some really good interactions you know this is if somebody says this say this you know kind of a he gives him back and forth and there are appendixes in the back in fact there's an appendix that is on the subject of Ligonier Ministries that's Dr.

R.C.

Sproul remember R.C.

Sproul is not a presuppositionalist he's got a section in here about the distinctions and so I would encourage that but I hope that this has been helpful you know I was I was nervous about choosing this book because I knew it would be heavy reading but I hope you feel somewhat accomplished having gone through it it's certainly certainly the most rigorous textbook we have used in this course so far by far by far so let's talk about the end of the course we are at that fateful place where even though next week we will we will have a class because Dr.