Final Textbook Discussion

We are going to we're going to go briefly over chapter 9. I really enjoyed this chapter. I think it was helpful in many ways. Primarily because of the one talking about the the best defense is a good offense.

You know going on the offensive going you know attacking their presuppositions. Attacking their when we say attacking you understand what I mean we're going against what they they think is is correct.

But if you have your handout this was the handout I gave out last week which is the summary. I want to use the summary to just simply point out a few things. One of the things I think that dr. frame really does a good job in this.

Atheism, Idolatry, and Scientism

In this particular chapter one of the things I think dr. frame does a great job of is demonstrating the similarity between atheism and idolatry. Because you know we often think of the atheist as having no God.

But it's not that he has no God. He has just created a different God. You know the old adage is true everyone worships something whether it is the God of their own making. Last night brother Andy gave a wonderful testimony.

I I know a few of you were here last night to hear him share his testimony. But in his testimony he said that he in his midlife before he became a Christian not midlife young adult life he said he worshipped a God of his own making a God who basically did whatever he wanted him to do.

You know. And he felt good about that God because that God sort of obeyed him. And that's really what idolatry is. You know idolatry is creating a God who is subservient to me. You know you build the God and you bow down to it.

But who's really in charge. When you were the master builder when you were the one who put him together. So atheism comes along and says we don't need any gods. But they immediately start to construct their own gods.

Science is in many ways a God for people. In fact some of you probably have heard this phrase. Some of you maybe not. But there is a there is a a new book. Never mind both sides are being used. I'll uh I'll write lower and to the right.

So you guys can see the word is scientism. Maybe you ever heard of the phrase scientism. Scientism is different than science. Because what is science. This should be unknown study. Okay the word science means knowledge.

That's where that's like we get the the word conscience. What's the root of the word conscience. Science what is. What is the prefix con mean huh. Means with who said that somebody. Yeah means with. So conscience we're with knowledge of ourselves.

That means we have knowledge. Right. That's what the conscience is self-knowledge. Right. And so when we talk about science it's knowledge. So science is not a thing. Science is a process by which you get somewhere.

That's why we don't typically use science as a thing. We say the scientific method. And when I was a kid I remember the scientific method. I remember the few little times I engaged in trying to put together things for the science fair.

You know I I had my science fair project with a little trifold board that you put up. And you know I think one time I made a ant farm and I don't remember what I was trying to prove. But I did an ant farm for a science project.

One time I tried to prove pressure points existed because I was doing karate and I thought that would be a cool thing. So I just went around hitting people on pressure points to prove that they existed.

And and and that was my that was again I had a hypothesis pressure points existed. And then and here's the I'm gonna test my hypothesis. I've just whacked people and see what happens. And it was great.

But well again I wasn't a scientist. But but we understand the method. Right. The scientific method. Well yeah the scientific method is not the same as scientism. Scientism is the idea that science itself has become a bulwark of knowledge that is independent and is its own thing to be believed in.

That's the where the statement comes. You don't believe the science. They're not talking so much about the method as the declarations of science. The science really declare things. Science discovers things.

Science discovers patterns. Science discovers consistency. A water always boils 212 degrees. That's a consistent pattern. Right. So we find these things out and that's through the process of discovery.

But scientism is the concept that science itself has has become something that is worth worshipping or worth elevating to the point of he said well they're not worshipping. Well yes they are. They're putting it as the as the highest the highest goal the highest entity.

And they turn science into an entity. That's the problem. That's scientism turning it really into an entity. So that's why I say atheism becomes idolatry. They find something to worship. Some people do worship science.

Other people simply worship self. I like at the bottom and you'll notice I have it underlined for you. It says atheism and idolatry need each other. In fact they are one position. Apologists need to learn how to spot the contradictions and a non-believers thought since that thought will contain irreconcilable elements of the rational and the irrational.

Now that's where the chapter becomes somewhat difficult. But in the chapter he's trying to help us understand that when we're talking to someone some of the things they say are going to be rational. But some of the things aren't.

And we're deconstructing the irrational statements that they make in your book. I said I wasn't gonna look at book but just for the sake of it look at page 206. He gives us three case studies against three different perspectives.

One is relativism atheistic relativism. The second one is idolatrous rationalism and the third is atheistic idolatry. Let me just read off of the first one. This is against atheistic relativism. He says this when you find an unbeliever who stresses the atheistic relativistic side of unbelief.

Be persistent in asking these questions. How can you be sure that relativism is right when it itself rules out all assurance. Number two. How can you live as a relativist. Having no assurance of anything must be terrible.

Excuse me must be a terrible strain rationally emotionally and volitionally. What basis do you have for making decisions. What basis do you have for criticizing the treatment you receive from others. How can you say that anything is wrong unfair or unjust.

What basis do you have for trusting logic or for that matter your own mind. Again he's calling himself a rationalist. But the relativistic person is not rational because he is in a sense saying that all things are relative.

If that's true then that statement is relative. And if all truth is relative then that statement cannot be true. That statement can only be relative. You see how they have to be both rational and irrational at the same time.

Let's look at the second one. He he talks about idolatrous rationalism. He says when you meet someone who tends to stress the powers rather than the limits of autonomous thought and action you will likely be dealing with someone in the grip of an idol.

Find out what his idol is and take aim by asking these questions. Number one. What basis is there for thinking that this idol is absolute. And two does your God really do the job of a God. Did it create the world.

Is it the ground of logic mathematics ethical value and universal judgments. And science. Is it adequate as a final standard of meaning truth and right. See that's the way people treat science. You know I'm not here to bash science tonight but think about people say I believe in science in the same way that they say it would say I believe in God.

We know that an impersonal God can do none of these things. So the unbeliever will be tempted either to lapse into relativism or to grant to his God some elements of personality. That's what happens when they talk about the universe.

The universe gave me good vibes today there was a miss in it. I got good vibes from the universe. Why are they saying that. Because they have to personalize something that's impersonal. They have to turn the impersonal universe into something personal so that they can have a relationship because they have made it their God.

Once he does the latter he is granting part of our case. And we can pursue him further especially by asking him how do you know this person. You ever had somebody tell you that they're sending you good vibes.

You were asking. What does that mean. Because vibes is short for what vibrations was vibrations. About energy. What's that got to do with Eastern mystical thought that we are all part of a universal energy.

That we all share in this universal energy flow that we all share within a positive and negative portion of that energy flow. You have your yen which is your female or negative energy. You have your yawn which is your positive and male energy.

Or and. And that's how you interrelate to the world. Just do that energy flow. And therefore when you are going ahead of a bad day I'm gonna send you good vibes. But I can't believe in Jesus because that's ridiculous.

You see. Oh yeah. Absolutely. So again not believing God doesn't take you to believe nothing. It makes you believe everything anything. I hope that your time in this class has been fruitful. I hope your time in this book has been fruitful.

And I do hope you invest the time to finish the book at some point especially toward the back. He gives some really good interactions. You know this is if somebody says this say this you know kind of a he gives him back and forth and there are appendixes in the back.

In fact there's an appendix that is on the subject of Ligonier ministries. That's dr. RC sprawl. Remember RC sprawls not a presupposition list. He's got a section in here about the distinctions and so I would encourage that.

But I hope that this has been helpful. You know I was I was nervous about choosing this book because I knew it would be heavy reading. But I hope you feel somewhat accomplished having gone through it.

It's certainly certainly the most rigorous textbook we have used in this course so far. By far. By far. So let's talk about the end of the course. We are at that faithful place where even though next week we will we will have a class because dr. Sepulveda will be here.

I won't have time to do what I'm about to do tonight next week. So let me do this tonight. I want to go over very quickly with you your paper. If you plan to do a paper let me bring up quickly the bring up the syllabus.

I just got to pull it up here just a second. So on your syllabus we have underneath the paper research project. This is 50 of your final grade. If you do not plan to do a paper don't walk out of the room because it'll be to disturb everybody else.

But if you don't plan to do the paper that's fine. If you do plan to do the paper please come see me tonight and let me see your notebook so that I can check you off for your notebook to make sure because that's part of it.

Right. If you look at here it says your notebook assignment is 25 of your grade. So if you don't show me your notebook you've best you can get is a 75 a C. Right. You want to get an A or B. So definitely show me your notebook before you leave.

And your reading assignments. You've been able to interact in class. Hopefully you've kept up with those. That's an honor grade. I don't go around. You know you interacting in class is sort of how I judge whether or not you were doing your reading all right.

The research project will be assigned during the final class. Each student will choose and respond to one specific objection to Christianity. This response should include a comparison of the different apologetic methodologies and how each one would respond to the objection.

Don't forget to include relevant biblical citations and notable historical references and responses to the subject. This research project will be submitted in the following format. A title page including the course title number student name and professor name by the project should be well organized to be no less than three pages.

No more than five pages. I stopped there to emphasize. Don't give me a 10 page paper because I'm reading a lot of papers and I don't have a teacher's assistant. My wife helps me read for grammar but I'm reading for content and you know I appreciate brevity.

You know three to five pages shows me that you've learned and been able to. You know like I said just keep it keep it to five pages. If you can should be able to get at least three on a subject like this.

Three to four pages shouldn't be. It shouldn't be a problem. If you have trouble writing let me know. As I said my wife teaches English. My my you know I write all the time so I can give you insights into how to be a good writer.

And then a properly cited bibliography page. You may choose APA or MLA format. I prefer a. I prefer APA because that's what I used but it doesn't have to be anybody have any questions on that. All right.

By show of hands. And I don't want to embarrass anybody. By show of hands. How many of you plan to do the work. Only a few of you. Okay. See me after class so I can see your notes and you will be ready to go.

Do you guys enjoy this course. Good. I hope. I hope that it was helpful. Let's end with a word of prayer. Father in heaven. We thank you for this opportunity to be together to study and hopefully have grown through this time in this course.

I pray Lord that you'll bring us back in the next course ready and excited to continue learning in Christ's name. I'm in.