Myth-busters: Free Will and Eternal Security

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the apostle

Paul said, "'But we did not yield in subjection to them "'for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel "'would remain with you.'"

In short, if you like smooth, watered -down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn't for you.

By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we're called by the divine trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her king.

Here's our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth. Welcome to No Compromise Radio ministry, Mike Abendroth with Tuesday guy,

Steve Cooley. Steven Boy Cooley. And now, I know your middle name starts with a

B, but it's not for boy, is it? Well, I used to always tell people that because I'd say, yeah, I was originally in the Waltons cast, so they called me

Steve Boy. Steve. I saw a picture of the Waltons back from the 70s,

I believe, and, you know, doesn't look like they've aged at all. Well, I think most of them have.

I think so. But the picture of the 70s. Oh, yeah, it still looked great. Yeah, but that's because airtime's expensive, and so we have to get away from the funny stuff.

Okay, enough of that funny, no more jocularity. Now, before we continue with our Mythbusters series, part four,

I do have in front of me, this is a few months old, status update by Pastor Rick Warren, and he encourages people to follow these senior pastors on Twitter.

Now, I do believe that the tweet was taken down or the website link was taken down, but these folks at Stand Up for the

Truth captured it before it was taken down. Is Martin Luther on that list? What was that thing you were telling me off air about Martin Luther twittering?

Oh, they had Martin Luther having a Twitter exchange with Joel Osteen, and what they would do is take

Osteen quotes and then have Luther quotes in response, and it was very funny. Actual Luther quotes and actual

Joel Osteen. Yeah, but you know, Luther at his most, how shall I say it, combative,

I think is a polite way of saying things. You know, often when he was arguing with his theological opponents, he was less than reverential.

Pugnacious, would you say? I would not say that because that would be sinful, but I would say he was, you know. Compared to how people debate today, he would seem to be pugnacious.

Yes, he was certainly not excessively charitable. How about that? All right, but then

Erasmus in his retort back, he seemed to follow in kind. Well, you know, that's an unbeliever acting like an unbeliever, so.

Steve, Pastor Rick Warren's status update, I encourage you to follow these senior pastors on Twitter, and then he has them grouped with over one million followers, over 600 ,000 followers, over 300 ,000, over 200 ,000.

And where was I on the list? You were under the fake Saturday guy on Tuesdays.

Okay, but again, airtime is expensive. No more jokes. Yes, number one, these are the people that he wants you to follow.

I encourage you to follow these people on Twitter. I'm gonna follow these people. Yes. Now, to give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe it's just to keep an update on, it might not be to learn from, it could be to learn from via negative illustration or example, so we don't know motives, do we?

Number one, Joel Osteen, 1 .7 million followers. How many smiles? Your best life now, your best smile now, you know, come on.

He's got teeth that I would get rid of my house if I could have those teeth.

Number two, I encourage you to follow these senior pastors on Twitter. Rick Warren, one million

Twitter followers. He encourages people to follow him. Now, if he tweeted the list out, then that would have been a complete bust, right?

Because only the people who followed him already would get the list. So, that wouldn't have worked.

Yeah, I think that has something to do with the Toronto Blessing Syndrome or something, I don't know. Okay. Number three,

T .D. Jakes, one million followers as well. Well, who knows?

Did you see T .D. Jakes getting slain in the spirit the other day? I didn't even watch the video.

People at Strange Fi or Aaron Post don't do that. Yeah, you know, the thing with T .D. Jakes, just briefly, he is a Oneness Pentecostal false teacher, so probably not the best to follow him.

Of course, then Joel Osteen also doesn't know the gospel, so not good to follow him either. Marcus Witt, I don't know who he is.

Didn't he play defensive back for Oklahoma, I want to say? Yeah, no, he was the actual, he was the runner,

Marcus Dupree Witt. The running back, very nice. Mark Driscoll, number five.

He only has 381 Twitter followers. 381 or 381 ,000?

Thousands. Thousands. Lou Giglio, 363.

He's just a Giglio. Yes, Cash Luna. I don't know Cash Luna. Cash Luna, he is at Casa de

Dios, and he has 350 ,000 followers. I think that's a Mexican pop star.

I don't really, you know. No, I thought it was like a protein bar or something. Cash, oh, Luna bars,

I like that. Are those the ladies bars? You know what Luna means in Spanish, right? Moon. Yeah, very good. So why would

Moon be a ladies snack bar? I have no idea. Just, you know.

Andy Stanley, number eight. Brian Houston. Is there anybody good on this list?

He had a good jump shot, didn't he? Brian Houston? Yeah, he used to really be able to nail those three -pointers.

It was kind of like, he reminded me of either World Be Free or Anthony Toney for the

Philadelphia 76ers. Played right opposite of that wonderful shooting forward,

Brian Houston. That's going back a little bit. Yes, and finally, Judah Smith. Judas? It doesn't say

Judas. Yeah, no, no, I said Judah, yes. Okay, it sounded like Judas. Matt Chandler's on here, David Platt.

Let's see, who else? Steven Furtick, you're just gonna pass over him? I did pass over him because I'm trying to pick people who actually -

Matter? Yeah. Joshua Harris is number 32.

Nice. Thulian is 36. Charles Stanley, I see that. Chuck Swindoll's 39.

What else do we have here? David Jeremiah? Greg Laurie, I see that. Darren Patrick, J .D.

Greer. Who else? James Montgomery, boys, is he on that list? He's right after Kevin DeYoung.

Ligon Duncan's number 72. Who else on here might be interesting? I don't know, there's a lot of people here

I don't know. Look, it says Martin Frye. Oh, Matt Frye, sorry. Oh, Matt Frye, yeah. Ray Ortland, he's on here.

And Tabeti, number 94. Oh, that's good. Yeah, so. So there's a few good ones there. Yeah. So we're doing this series,

Steve, Mythbusters. Why would we do such a series? Because there are a lot of myths and they need to be busted.

Well, I mean, you know, in cop lingo, that means to arrest them, to bring them to justice. Yes, now tell me, since we're talking about police issues here in Mythbusters, how do you actually work handcuffs?

If you were going to handcuff someone, let's make this a biblical analogy. How do we theologically handcuff a myth?

Well, first you put somebody behind and tell them to put their hands behind their back. Okay, and then, you know, you tell them to put their fingers together in such a way that I can't really show over the radio.

Then you grab their fingers and then you would handcuff their left wrist and then their right wrist, and then you double lock them.

Double lock their wrists? Double lock the handcuffs so that they don't slip while they're in your radio car because they can eventually get so tight that they'll cut off the circulation.

We don't want that. No, we don't. No, okay, because what if they're innocent until proven guilty? Yeah, we're not out to, you know, physically damage anyone.

Okay, that's good, I like that. This is community theological policing. Well, and we're very kind in our policing,

I think. Yeah, okay, perfect, all right. Pass that Luna bar over here, would you? All right, today let's talk about -

Cash Luna, that's a great name. Yeah. Sorry. Let's talk about free will and the myth that goes along with it.

Here's the myth, that you can believe in both free will and eternal security at the same time.

That is to say, it's a myth, we believe at Theological Mythbusters here, to believe that you can have free will and that you can have eternal security.

So maybe we can define a couple of these things first, Steve, or take it from there. Well, free will would just be, as it's commonly used, is this idea that there is nothing impinging on us from coming to God.

In other words, everyone is born with a free will. They have the ability to, of their own volition, choose to believe in the

Lord Jesus Christ. That is what people typically mean by free will. Now, Steve, would it be fair to say that people tend to use the argument supporting free will, not from the

Bible, but from philosophy? Don't you think that occurs regularly? Instead of going to Romans 6, saying that you're a slave to the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness.

Instead of saying, well, you're a slave to sin or you're a slave to righteousness, let's look at that verse, see what it means. We too often default, maybe it's lazy thinking, maybe it's ignorance, maybe we just don't know.

I guess it's the same thing as ignorance. But we say, well, God doesn't want a robot. Right.

God doesn't want to have a puppet, and he wants real love, because if it's forced love, after all, what love is this?

Right, what kind of God would drag us kicking and screaming against our will to force us to believe?

Exactly right. And so, you know, I think to the credit of those who hold such a view,

I think they're really trying to protect God from some charges that they've created for themselves, you know, that they've imagined, but they're trying to protect his reputation.

But anyway, getting back to this, can somebody freely of their own will choose?

Well, we know from Romans 6 that that's wrong, from Ephesians 2, where it says that people are born, or they're dead in their sins and trespasses before God makes them alive.

And we would have many illustrations of that in 1 Peter 1, where it says that God caused us to be born again.

John 3, where Jesus says that the Spirit of God is the agent who causes us to be born again.

All these scriptures and more would indicate that God goes first.

It's God's free choice, not man's free choice, but we don't like that. Just like I think a lot of people don't like elder rule, even though that's what the

Bible teaches. Why don't they like it? Because of the enlightenment, everybody's just as good as everybody else. Why can't we all get a vote kind of thing?

And I think it's the same sort of mindset. Well, it doesn't seem right to us that not everybody gets a free shot.

Not everybody's on the same level playing field. It's not fair. Steve, speaking along those lines, they would have to say and eventually say that they don't like Adam's sin as representative imputed to the account of all mankind, except of course for the last

Adam Christ. In other words, Adam is in probationary period and what he does as a representative affects all those in Adam, everybody else.

And so they don't like the way God sets it up and that the fall was a complete fall, mind fallen, will fallen, emotions fallen.

Steve, I know it's a favorite pop band of yours that Island of Righteousness. Oh yeah. Tell me, was that like Captain and Tennille, Island of Righteousness, Island Girl?

I just love all those things. But getting back to the issue here for a moment, when you say that, and now the train has left the tracks here.

Well, back to free will, people don't really like free will. It's hard to admit we're slaves to sin.

We're slaves to Satan, isn't it? I mean, we aren't the center of the universe. We aren't at the top of the pecking order.

Well, it's very hard. In fact, what I was just thinking about is, the Mormons, part of their articles of faith say that we believe that Adam, I'll just sort of summarize, it was responsible for his own sin and that we're responsible for our own sin.

And I think to most people, that seems fair, right? Adam blew it, well, shame on Adam. But we all have our own chance and we can make our own decisions.

Thank you very much. And if you use the supposed symmetry of Romans 5 in their thinking, so Adam was responsible for what he did, he blew it.

We're responsible for what we did, we blow it. Jesus responsible for what he did, he succeeded.

Now we're responsible for what Jesus did and then we're gonna blow that too. I mean, it just doesn't match.

Yeah, all we have to do is live a perfect life just like Jesus did. But you know what, that's what the

Mormons teach, that all we have to do, Jesus forgives our sins, it's because of his death that we get our sins forgiven.

But we are ultimately responsible for living perfectly and stopping from sinning.

When you, no compromise listener, think of free will, make sure you discuss in your mind or with yourself or with others, the nature.

The nature is a slave to sin, the nature is bound, the nature is influenced by Satan. And so the nature then controls the will.

In other words, the will can only make choices that the nature will allow. And if you've got a depraved person, they freely choose things that are commensurate with, in light of, stemming from their bad nature and so.

Well, I was gonna say, you know, just by way of illustration, imagine you're at a Mexican restaurant and you ask them for sushi.

They would say, well, we don't have that. And it doesn't matter how many times you holler for sushi, you're not gonna get it.

And in the same way, you know, we can think, well, we have a free will, we can choose to obey Christ, but we're in a, for lack of a better term, since I use this lame illustration, we're in a restaurant where our ability to choose

Christ does not exist. It's not on the menu, it's not possible because we're dead in our sins and trespasses.

We're blinded by Satan, we're blinded by our own lust. We live for ourselves.

Steve, I know you're writing a book and I think a chapter title should be, It's Not on the Menu. It's Not on the

Menu. It's Not on the Menu. It's just not there. So now let's fast forward a little bit and talk about eternal security.

Some people call that perseverance of the saints. If you think of Tulip, that would be the P, perseverance of the saints.

Other men of God have said preservation by God would be maybe better because God does the persevering, but we too also have to persevere as Christian saints to the end.

He who endures to the end shall be saved. Eternal security, sometimes that's got a bad flavor to it, doesn't it,

Steve? You see, it doesn't matter what you do. Right, and it's certainly used by cults because they say, well, if you believe once saved, always saved, then you can just act however you want.

You can act like the devil and you're still gonna go to heaven. So when we say free will and eternal security don't go together, let's now consider the will of the

Christian and eternal security. And if the Christian has a will that is completely free, so let's think about from external and internal sources,

Steve, free from the world's influence. By the way, I watch a taco commercial and I get hungry for tacos.

What? I'm influenced. I'm an influenceable person. And an influential person.

Oh, yes. I am not free from Satan's temptations.

I am not free from God Almighty. I'm not free from a variety of things and still there's a sin dwelling principle in me.

But if you really had free will as a Christian, then you could freely jump out of the Father's hand and eternal security wouldn't exist.

I mean, it really is interesting, right? Because people will teach that we have a free will that we can choose God and then

God is obligated to keep us against everything, including our own free will.

So by making a free choice, we become bound, right? We're locked up, we're handcuffed and there is no escape.

Well, what kind of freedom is that? If you want freedom, you should be all for freedom. Steve, is it

Rob Bell who with his hell discussion holds out hope, negative hope, of course, for hell, for those people throughout the eons who continually and eventually, even after the post -mortem wooing and everything else, he has to still have a hell in his mind because of his concept of the freedom of the will after all those years.

Well, can you just imagine a hell in which by just believing you could somehow get out and it's offered to you and for eons, you refuse, you refuse, you refuse.

Then one day you go, okay, enough rebellion. Now I wanna believe. But then what would that say about heaven too?

That would suggest that for eons and eons and eons, you could go without sinning and then you could just go, you know what?

I've had enough of this heaven. I think I'll unbelieve now. See, Steve, that is so important, what you just brought up.

When you think of heaven and free will, what goes through your mind if you're listening? We have a certain nature in heaven.

By the way, isn't that gonna be a good day, glorified nature? It's gonna be a great day. I kinda like heaven to come right about now.

I can't wait. Two minutes ago was not too soon. And so in heaven, we will have perfect natures glorified.

I like Romans 8 where in the chain of redemption, you have glorification listed in the past tense because it's as good as done.

I like that. It's a sure thing. It's a promise. So then in heaven, you have a will commensurate with your nature.

And so you make all kinds of decisions according to your glorified nature of worship and adoration and ruling and co -reigning and all kinds of things,

I'm sure, in heaven. But if you had a true free will, free from everything and anyone and everybody, including

God, then you could not, you could un -choose heaven. Is that like un -liking on Facebook?

You get mad at somebody and un -like them? Yeah, it's like that. So Wayne, are you saying in heaven, I won't have the choice of sinning?

Well, that doesn't sound like freedom. It's gonna be the greatest freedom of all your wildest dreams.

No freedom to sin. I mean, if you love the Lord, what is the one thing you absolutely hate in this life?

It's that you still sin and you should long to be delivered from it. And the same basis by which you think you freely chose

God of your own choice, he had almost nothing to do with it other than he was standing out, you know, holding his arms out, hoping you'd jump into him.

But - Behold, behold, I stand at the door and knock, knock, knock. But by that same thinking, you should be thinking, well, wait a minute, if I have free will, and free will is the priority, then

I should have free will to unbelieve and I should have free will to unbelieve and sin anytime I want, even in eternity.

Mike Abendroth with Steve Cooley, No Compromise Radio, info at nocompromiseradio .com, or you can call our secretary to get our email, can't you?

24 -7, she's available for that. The reason why we brought this myth up is because many people believe in eternal security.

You've got the maybe King James -only types, fighting fundamentalist types, maybe some charismatic types,

Pentecostal types, who believe in eternal security. I know not all Pentecostals, of course, do, but you've got some that do, but then they also believe in free will, and we're trying to say you can't have both.

You can't have free will and eternal security because you would be free then to undo what

God has done, and we're just trying to tell you we think we see an inconsistency in your theology.

If you're a one -point Calvinist and you believe in free will, we don't see how you can embrace both truths.

Ooh, that's a good book title, The One -Point Calvinist Unmasked. It's on the menu.

It would be a very short book, but I mean, just the basic concept that somehow we can obligate

God, and then we're done choosing. We make one choice, and then we're done, and the responsibility is no longer on us.

I mean, I would say that there's at least a certain consistency to the people who think that you have a free will and can lose your salvation because they consistently choose wrongly, but it's consistent.

Absolutely, so I would think that would be more consistent. I don't think it's necessarily better, but it's more consistent.

I think the trouble lies behind this, maybe as an idol to some people, free will, having to have free will, but the most important people in the

Bible days were kings, and God can turn those kings' hearts in whatever way he wishes.

So isn't at the end of the day, Steve, the problem with free will really a stiff arm to God?

God, you can't do anything to my will, and I frankly had a really bad will, a bad nature, and I was never going to choose

God. I always chose evil, and in the flesh, it's impossible to please God, and yet then

God regenerated me. He gave me a new nature, and my will responded with, I used to hate you,

God, but now I love you. Thank you for forgiving me. What hope do we have without? Well, we don't, and you know what we need, though, right now is either a message moment or maybe some show on the missing verses of the

Bible because when God opened Lydia's heart, he opened it and he said, now,

Lydia, I'm only coming in as a gentleman and only with your permission, so if you don't mind at this moment,

I would just like to ask you, is it okay? I mean, I've opened your heart, but you feel free to close it again.

You know, no pressure. I'm not here to shove you around or anything. I'm not a bully.

Well, Steve, credit to where credit is due. Okay. As she listened with intensity to what was being said, speaking of Lydia, the master gave her a trusting heart and she believed.

Well, he gave her a trusting heart, amen, that's probably one of the better non -translations, what do we call that, interpretation.

I mean, basically he writes his own opinion about what the Bible says, but that's a good one. See, well, so Steve, aren't we kind of kind and generous on certain occasions?

Well, that was very nice. I'm really proud of that message moment. That's been the first time where I've been like, yes, that was a good message moment.

Now, if you were on a desert island and you had no other books but the message, would you read it? Gouge my eyes first.

No, of course. Yeah. And I'd be going, oh, that's a really bad translation.

Oh, that's, I'd probably make, I would find some way to write and, you know, scratch out the really bad ones and put something in there.

My name is Mike Ebenroth, this is Steve Cooley. You can write us at info at nocompromiseradio .com. I think if you'd like to write

Steve with some ideas on how he can improve at the show, it's Tuesdayguyatnocompromiseradio .com.

Improve? Is that possible? Steve, as John Gershner said, there's always room for deproofing.

But have you... Deportment, maybe, yeah. I feel like I want to be deported.

Have you seen the latest ratings though? I mean, the Arbitron ratings, we're through the roof. Oh, we are? Yeah. Maybe it's because we're on Worldview Weekend now.

Oh, could be. Maybe, maybe we're on Indonesia. In fact, some people have suggested that we're so popular now, we should start selling advertising.

I advertise things in my own mind. Well, you can write us. You can go to the website.

We have a conference coming up, Omaha Bible Church's Pastor Pat Abendroth, October 4th and October 5th.

Any relation? Yes, he's nine years younger. Okay, well, there's room. I think

Adolphos means of the same womb. So we have the same womb, we're brothers. Good, well, nocompromiseradio .com.

No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Abendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life transforming power of God's word through verse -by -verse exposition of the sacred text.

Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at six. We're right on route 110 in West Boylston.

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