Christians Respond to David Alexander's Testimony

Introduction to the Reaction Video and David Alexander’s Testimony

Hey, what's up everyone? This is Pastor Wade Orsini with Apology at Church, Utah. I'm here today with our elder-in-training, Andrew Songkrant. You might recognize this guy from The Cultist Show, but today we are doing something unique, something that I don't think we've ever done before.

We're gonna be doing a reaction video. Tell them all about it, brother. Yeah, so there's a man named David Alexander who has recently quote-unquote converted to Mormonism. He says he was a pastor three different times and now supposedly he has found the truth and the power of the priesthood.

I haven't watched anything yet from this man. Right, me neither. Yeah, so we're gonna go ahead and we're gonna do like a live react video, and I'm excited about this as well because, I don't know, it's just fun to do.

Yeah, I mean he's becoming sort of an authority for people, at least some sort of poster boy for leaving evangelicalism, coming into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which is no church at all, just an organization.

And we want to see what has led him there and kind of pick it apart, of course, so hopefully lovingly. We'll do our best. Yeah, let's get to it. So the video we are going to look at is from a channel called True Millennial.

It's about a six and a half minute video where part of his testimony is already spliced up. So we're not gonna go through like an hour and a half interview video with David Alexander. We're just gonna go through this and we'll stop it.

Whenever you tell me to stop, I'll stop, okay? Sounds good. Let's go, dude. All right, so we're gonna start about right now and have fun with us, guys.

So this man, David Alexander, after 47 years as an evangelical Christian and former pastor and believing his whole life that the Mormon Church is a cult, was baptized two weeks ago. And he's now sharing one of the most powerful testimonies I've ever heard.

Listen to this.

In the culture of non-Latter-day Saint Christianity, the Latter-day Saints are continuing. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Okay, we're gonna stop there real quick.

All right, so I heard something. I just want to stop right now because I think we need to address this just before we go any further. He said this, Pastor Wade, I want to see if you can kind of flesh out what he's really saying.

He said in the culture of non-Latter-day Saint Christianity. What in the world does that even mean? Yeah, I mean, I think first off when he says non-Latter-day Saint Christianity, then he's presupposing that Latter-day Saints have Christianity.

They have biblical Christianity, and so I think he's putting them on at least the same level. I'm sure he would argue later that Latter-day Saint Christianity is higher than evangelicalism, but it just doesn't make sense to me.

I think he's conflating the two. Yeah, so what is Christianity, and I think it will help the listeners here. What is Christianity, and who gets to define what Christianity is? Right, right. Yeah, I would say that not one single institution gets to define what Christianity is.

The Bible is God's self-attesting word, self-authenticating word, gets to define what Christianity is, and we come to the plain meaning of the text, and we can see inferred, principally, and shown explicitly through the text of Scripture what Christianity is.

So there's got to be an authority over what Christianity is because otherwise then anyone could come up with any definition, which we've seen obviously for centuries. Yeah, so with that, in terms of like historic heresy or non-orthodoxy in the church, say I pick up my Bible, I start reading it, and I'm like, this is what the Bible says about Jesus.

If it contradicts what has been known throughout millennia, that's typically a sign that it's something that's not what the Bible is actually teaching, right? Exactly. There is an apostolic teaching. There is a teaching from Christ.

In fact, the epistle to John, Titus, Jesus himself, says the phrase, the teaching, that there are going to be many teachings, but there is the teaching, and both Paul and even John say when you deviate from the teaching of Christianity, the teaching of Christ, you've gone to something that even John says so powerfully is Antichrist, in that deviation.

So that is to say Christianity has a precision to it. There is a narrow scope to it, and once you fall outside the the bounds of what is biblical, you are no longer allowed to be able to be called Christian in any capacity.

Yeah, it makes sense. Like in Jude, it says earnestly contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the Saints. And when we're using the word faith here, we're talking about a body of belief of something that is actually made known about Jesus Christ to us through his word, and that it hasn't been corrupted, and we can know it not because of our feelings, but because of what the actual scriptures say.

Right, right. Gotcha. So we would then state that the LDS is not a denomination of Christianity. We would actually agree with the beginning of the video where it says Mormonism is actually a cult. It takes something about Jesus from the Bible, the name of Jesus, and it ascribes different definitions to him that cannot be found in the biblical text.

Right, and we don't want to use the term cult in in just a pejorative sort of way. We use that in the technical sense of the word. A cult is something that, as Brother Andrew said, deviates from the truth while using terms that are related to the truth.

You've seen it all throughout the centuries. So perfect. All right. Well, let's continue and we'll keep going on with this video here.

It's like, oh, they have the wrong Jesus. They're not real Christians. They're nice, but they're a cult. I basically spent 47 years searching through evangelical Christianity trying to find a church where there was an authority.

A Different Jesus, the Incarnation, and the Authority of the Church

All right, let's stop again.

Let's stop again. There's a few things I think that we need to address here. Yeah, so we're talking about what he says that there's been slandering or misrepresentations of the church that they believe in a different Jesus.

Let's stop there first and let's address that. So, Pastor Wade, does the LDS organization believe in a different Jesus? And is that because you feel it's true? Right, so I think we have to, as always, start with Scripture.

We see Jesus in the Synoptic Gospels state that there are people who are going to come, men who will come to earth, who are born here, and they will rise up and call themselves Messiahs or Christ. It's just a fact.

He even warns us people will do this. Paul speaks of the same thing in 2nd Corinthians chapter 11 verse 4, that people will come in a different spirit, with a different gospel, and a different Christ.

Again, John speaks in his epistles saying that there are people who have become Docetists and Gnostics. They've taken away from Christ and his natures. They've taken away from his humanity. And if Jesus didn't actually come in the flesh, that changes the gospel completely.

That changes who he is. And he says that fundamentally changes the gospel itself and the saving power therein. So, when we go to the Word of God, there are warnings that there will be people with different Christ.

And so, where do we go to find out who the Christ is? We go to the the singular record, the only record of who Christ is, and that's in the scriptural text. Right, so the first thing that you said is that when people state that the LDS organization teaches a different Jesus, what you're stating here is that actually it's not our feelings that say that.

We're not saying that because we don't like them. We're saying that because the scriptures actually warn us that there will be different Jesus's. So, we have an objective standard that's outside of our own feelings that tell us to actually be careful and to consider and weigh the things people say when they're claiming Christ, right?

Right, and I have to say real quick, I think there have been, in fact, I know there have been evangelicals, maybe those who are not truly believers, but definitely even those who are truly believers who have opened up their door to some missionaries, and they've mocked them and closed the door in their face.

There have been Christians who truly probably believe genuinely and in error and in a lack of maturity have done things to mock image bearers, right? People made in the image and likeness of God who are wrong and don't have the truth and are headed to hell apart from Christ and the truth of Christ.

But we need to have a posture of grace and love and really, that's even why we're doing this video. That's one of the biggest reasons why we came to Utah anyways is because we love these people and we want them to know the true Christ of Scripture.

So, yeah, I would agree, I guess, in some capacity that no, it's not good for there to be slander and hatred towards these people. Right, so, and we want to qualify it as well, us stating that you believe in a different Jesus because the Bible first warns us of it is not slander.

It's not hateful. It's actually in love because love rejoices in the truth. That's what it says in 1 Corinthians. It says love rejoices in the truth. So if we separate fact from fiction and we tell you things that are hard to hear, it's actually because we love you and we want you to know the truth, even you, David Alexander.

So, yeah, I want to make that known. So we talked about Jesus real quick. So the differences between the Mormon Jesus and the biblical Jesus, I think it's good to go through right now because he said it, he said different Jesus.

So let's kind of dissect that. First, what's, who's the biblical Jesus? Sure, the biblical Jesus, he demonstrates his divine origin. In fact, origin is even not even the best word because it almost seems like he has a starting place.

In the gospel, according to John chapter one, in the prologue of John, it says of Jesus in the beginning was the word, the logos, speaking explicitly of the son of God, the pre-incarnate son of God. Basically a veil is being peeled back for us in John chapter one.

And we're seeing things before the world was, they're being described to us before the world was. And then it will transition in chapter one, showing us that the word then became flesh and tabernacled among us.

Again, speaking of Jesus. And so in that first verse, one of the most powerful verses in all of the New Testament says, in the beginning was the word, the son of God, and the word was with God. Prostanteon, he was face-to-face with God.

He's always been face-to-face with God. And it says that the word was God. And in each instances of that tripartite verse has a Greek word with the root ami, and it is in this section in the form ein, which is to say that Jesus has had being with no point of reference in eternity past, no point of origin.

From as far back into eternity forever and ever, Jesus has been God and he was with God. And so right there, how is God with God, a trinity? How is Jesus able to save us from our sin? He's always been God.

Only God could absorb the wrath of the Father. A mere man or an elevated man could never absorb the wrath of fallen people, of the multitudes of Christians that there will be. And so yeah, this is serious stuff.

And that's the biblical Jesus. He ends up, even in the Synoptic Gospels and in the Gospel of John, making these what's called I Am statements. And if you've never heard that before, that comes from the burning bush passage in Exodus chapter three.

It's all throughout the Old Testament. It's where we get the word, the name for God, Yahweh. And so Jesus says that throughout his ministry, where he says, if you don't believe that I am, you will die in your sins.

He says, I am the bread of life. He says, I am the shepherd. I am the gate. I am this. And I am the way, the truth, and the life. In all these moments, and not even just those, again, in the Synoptic Gospels, he shows, he receives worship and something that he could never do if he actually feared and loved God.

That would be blasphemy, but he receives it because he's actually God. So there's just, guys, I could go on forever and ever of all the moments that Jesus demonstrates that he has full divinity and he has no point of origin.

He has eternality as well as the Father. That's great. Okay. So let me be a Mormon real quick, just so we can flesh it out, because it's extremely important to make these differences. So the Mormon also would say that, I do believe Jesus was Jehovah before he took on flesh.

He was Jehovah. He was Yahweh. But what's extremely, what we need to understand is what Wade was saying. He said that there was a verb being used in the prologue of John, ein. There's two types of verbs being used.

There's ein and then there's egonetto. And both are referenced to something. With regards to Jesus, it's without origin in space or time. Jesus was already there. But then in John chapter one, when it uses the verb egonetto, it's referring to all things that he created, which are what?

Right. He has created everything, visible or invisible. Colossians 1 speaks about this. Literally that word in the Greek, pros, talks about he has created all things. And therefore, if he's created all things, he has to be outside of everything that has ever been created, right?

So he's a totally different category. He could never be created because he created all things. So he couldn't create himself. Otherwise he wouldn't be the creator. So it's a complete categorical distinction right there.

That's perfect. Because the Mormon will go, look, I believe that before the foundations of the earth, Jehovah was there, Jesus. And he, through the direction of the father, created this organized matter.

So I agree with that. But what Wade's saying is, no, it's different than that in John. It's number one, without origin to space, reference of time, Jesus was already there. He didn't come into being. And also all other things actually came in to being.

The LDS Jesus is not that Jesus. He was offspring between heavenly father and a heavenly mother. There's multiple versions of his origins now in Latter-day Saint theology as well. So there's that. And also matter, according to LDS theology, wasn't coming into origin at one point in time.

It wasn't agonetto. So Jesus, number one, differs from John chapter one. And so does all matter. According to the Bible, matter was created out of nothing, creation ex nihilo. And they deny that within LDS theology.

So it's extremely important to understand, especially in John chapter one, that the Jesus that we're being presented with by John who knew Jesus is not the Jesus Christ of Mormonism. All right, let's keep going.

Wait. Okay. There was one other really, really important thing there. He talked about a church that has the authority. Oh, yes. And so immediately it's like Christ establishes that he's the head of the church.

All the apostles preach and send letters and make theologies based on the fact that Jesus is head over the body. Jesus is head over the church, which is also interesting when you take into account the quote of Joseph Smith, where he says, I did what Jesus could not do.

I alone have held the church together. I'm paraphrasing, of course. We'll throw the quote up. Yeah. And so Jesus is head over the body. He's head over the church. He's the groom. We're the bride. He has authority over it.

Do we really think that Jesus can't hold intact his church? I guess Latter-day Saints do. They believe that there was a full apostasy. There was a necessary restoration when we actually see, like in 1 Timothy chapter 4, that only some would apostatize, not nearly the apostasy that they speak of.

But essentially, Jesus has preserved his church, and he will until he returns again. Otherwise, we call Jesus a liar. Otherwise, we call the apostles a liar. And beyond all those things, the fact is he is the only one, according to the book of Hebrews, that has the authority as a high priest.

He is the final prophet. He is the final priest. And he alone is the one that is of the eternal order of Melchizedek. Hold on, hold on. So just for the listener here, you're bringing up the Melchizedek priesthood because of what they said, authority.

Tell us why for the listener who may not be as knowledgeable of Mormonism. Sure, sure. You can correct me if I'm wrong. From my understanding, Latter-day Saints believe they have the keys of kingdom of heaven.

They alone hold the priesthood on the earth, and therefore they have some sort of inherent authority that you actually, and they'll deny this, and there might be comments in this video later, but it's explicit.

All the presidents have said it. All Joseph Smith founders have said it. They've established that you cannot enter the kingdom of God apart from being baptized and brought into the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

If you are, in short, not Mormon, you will not be saved. You have to be part of their system, right? Yeah, and those are the people who hold, essentially, the priesthood of Melchizedek, which is the authority in which he is referencing here.

Right, right. They have the Melchizedek priesthood when, again, I don't know how you get that because it says explicitly in Scripture, guys, read the book of Hebrews. It says Jesus alone has it, and Jesus has this priesthood authority because it was necessary for him to become a faithful and merciful high priest, that he would be made like his brothers.

It was necessary for the divine Son of God to condescend, to come to earth, to take on human flesh, so that he could actually go into the heavenly holy of holies, the heavenly tabernacle, and as an eternal and divine high priest who's spotless and without sin, whereas Aaronic priests had to make sacrifices for themselves to consecrate and cleanse themselves before they could go into the holy of holies, and even then, if they did something wrong, they could die in the holy of holies, and they offered these sacrifices one time a year on the Day of Atonement, and so Jesus becomes the high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.

He becomes the, even the sacrifice itself, and he takes his own blood, and he brings it before the Father in the heavenly holy of holies, presents his blood as the living sacrifice, perfect Lamb of God, and he atones for sin once for all, it says, and he alone, he alone has performed that.

So to say anyone else has the priesthood according to the order of Melchizedek is to say that you're divine, that you're perfect. It's to say that you can atone for sin, but they can do none of that, right?

So that's a big issue when you say you have the authority, and you relate it to a priesthood. Jesus has the Melchizedek priesthood, guys. Jesus does. Amen. Matthew 28, he says, all authority on heaven and earth has been given to me, therefore go.

That's what Jesus says, and we as believers in Christ Jesus are given the gift of the Holy Spirit, and God dwells within us because of his perfect sacrifice through the Melchizedek priesthood that only Jesus Christ has in the Spirit within me.

The Holy Spirit testifies of both the Father and the Son, and it actually changes my role as well in the daily life of as a believer. What does it say about a royal priesthood given to those who have faith in Jesus Christ?

Right. I mean, it speaks now, he alone holds that priesthood, but then believers in Christ become a holy nation, a royal priesthood, and that verse in Peter's epistle is to show that we are offering ourselves as living sacrifices to God.

We don't need a temple anymore because there's no more sacrifices. Temples are for sacrifices and priests, and Jesus has fulfilled that, and so we are now spiritually and figuratively the temple and the priesthood because now we get all the benefits of what Jesus has performed, and so there's spiritual blessings, and then especially in that priesthood aspect, there's spiritual things that we get to do, works that have been prepared beforehand before we were even born, Paul says in Ephesians chapter two.

So we're offering ourselves, we're giving ourselves to God, and in that priesthood, we now have an inheritance, and that's really what it's pointing to, is an eternal heavenly inheritance now that Christ purchased for us.

Amen, amen. All right, let's keep going here.

Searching the Scriptures and the Problem of Subjective Truth

That in some way, shape, or form measured up to what I saw in the scriptures, and just failing over and over and over again to find that, but I couldn't give up, all right? So I kept looking and kept looking.

I took an honest look at everything on earth that I could find and couldn't.

Find it, but because of this fog. All right, hold on, hold on. So I hear this all the time when I'm speaking to LDS people on the streets. You hear it all the time. They go, well, you know, I searched through this belief or that belief when I was a teenager.

I looked at all of these things. I mean, they're just repeating what Joseph Smith said. It's not, it's really not even funny. I can't laugh at it anymore. We are not lying. We hear what this man just said.

We hear it over and over again on the streets. They say what Joseph Smith said. They say, I'm sure this is being said in Sunday school, in general conferences. It's amazing how much I hear. I've searched here.

I've searched there. I've searched this, and I couldn't find anything, right? And so also you see there, it's me centered, right? I'm the judge. I'm the judge of truth. I am the arbiter and judge of truth.

I'm the judge of God. I'll determine what truth is. I'll determine what's right. That's just not how it works. God regenerates and saves people for his own possession. And when this man was supposed to be a pastor for 47 years, so, and when was he doing all of this searching?

As a pastor? As a pastor, you're looking at different religions and beliefs because you're doubting the veracity of your own belief system. That doesn't make absolutely any sense to me. When did you do this questioning, David?

Did you do it while you were a pastor? While you were actually supposed to be shepherding the flock of God, you didn't believe what you were telling them? That's disqualifying. Yeah. And then why is it disqualifying?

It's disqualifying because of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, in the Christ of Scripture, in the teaching of Scripture is the fundamental necessity and qualification for a pastor. I mean, if you're really that lost, and look, I'm sorry to hear that, and I'm not trying to say that we have perfect faith all the time and, you know, but I certainly don't need to go looking in any place.

I can have trouble sometimes understanding a passage of Scripture, but I'm not going to other texts or the Quran and going, huh, I wonder about this. It's like, that's not what we do as pastors. So that's definitely a big red flag for him.

Massive red flag. All right, let's keep going. Let's hear what he has to say.

And I think in the Book of Mormon, it calls it mist of darkness, but I call it an accusatory fog that the evil one, he surrounds the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints with and injects people with, they're vaccinated against taking the Latter-day Saints serious.

And that's where I was at for almost half a century. I was...

Discernment, the Holy Spirit, and the Test of the Spirits

All right. We're going to barely get through this. I know. You know, even right there, guys, to say that there's a fog that Satan has provided, I would say over 50 of those in our church, maybe a little less, are people who used to be part of the Mormon church.

And it's so interesting to hear this persecution complex, right? I've heard that, and that Satan is keeping people from this church. And the harder the world is against this system, or the harder Christians are against this system, the more it validates their belief.

But that's never, even though the Christian church in the New Testament shows that there was great persecution on them, they never said, well, this shows that we're true. That's not how it works. So that's definitely a big issue.

It also contradicts the authority standard that he claimed earlier. By what authority does the devil have against the Melchizedek priesthood holder? If you have the true authority of the Melchizedek priesthood, what fog can be commanded by Satan over your quote-unquote church or governing authority?

It can't. It's not possible. It doesn't make any sense. If you have the authority, there should be no fog, right? The prophet should speak and it should cut a light through the darkness. But it actually seems to me by what the organization is and what the prophet says actually creates more darkness for those who are actually inside the LDS organization.

So they can't think for themselves and challenge what the prophet says to actually the word of God, the biblical text, not the book of Mormon. So it's funny that he says that. And I mean, the Bible straight up says, it says that on this rock, I will establish my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

And the reason why people have looked at it and said cult and seen strange practices, temple rituals, things that are performed by them is because, I mean, the Christian church started 2000 years ago and it's been on this linear line growing like a mustard seed into a big tree, like a small piece of leaven blowing up into a huge loaf of bread.

And it's been on this trajectory that Jesus said would never fail. And somewhere in the 1800s, after skepticism and the enlightenment and after the second great awakening, when all this really, all this weird spiritual stuff was taking place.

And in the 1800s is when you have the majority of cults coming out and Charles Taze Russell and Jehovah's Witness there. Campbellites, Church of Christ. Right, right, right. All those things, tent revivals, selling anointings, selling a prayer over people, selling oils, doing tent revivals in such a way to line your pockets with money.

Charlatans during this time, right? You have this deviation from the true church of God that started and Jesus said would never stop. And you have this deviation. And so now Christians that have stayed on that line and kept going, waiting for the return of Jesus, look at that weird little side thing.

And I don't even want to call it a branch because again, it's not a denomination. It's just this great separated deviation from the church using similar terms from us. And so yes, we all look at it and we've looked at it for 200 years now and gone, this is not right.

This is not what the scripture shows. This is not what the church has done. And so yeah, we've looked at it and judged it with righteous judgment according to John chapter 7, 24 as wanting, as failing.

Yeah, I mean literally the LDS organization and the prophecies and revelations of Joseph Smith is the schism. It is the apostasy and they claim otherwise. But notice what he's saying here. He's saying that for so long he was held back from the Mormon organization because he was number one in a mist of darkness and he was inoculated, right?

So that means that what he's saying here is that people are believing propaganda and lies about the LDS organization that is through the influence of Satan. So what does that say about me and you, Pastor Wade, that we're actually under the influence of Satan?

So hold on to that while we continue on.

Inoculated against even entertaining the wild thought that it might have anything to do with the Latter-day Saints. But I'd gotten to a place where I'm like, you know, and this was three months ago, I think I need to take a look at the Latter-day Saints.

And to even say that to myself was like almost impossible. So on December 23rd, I did a search for the local Latter-day Saint church and I called the number these two sister missionaries answered. And I said, I really need to find out what you people believe.

After about two weeks, you know, we got into a lot of this stuff about polygamy and things like that. And I just, I was just like, I just can't deal with this. This is just too much. And I said, I don't want to meet with you anymore.

But my heart was so green and I was just seeing the Holy Ghost. I was intellectually not letting myself hear. And so I called him back and said, look, I want to keep meeting. I know I'm being drawn by the Holy Spirit.

I'm going to stop resisting. I was like, I'm checking them out, but I'm checking them out with deep skepticism and looking for flaws.

All right. We got to, we got to stop. We got to stop. So he is wondering, I don't know. It's funny to me that he's, he's been questioning kind of his belief system and it looks, it appears like through the imagery that they're showing here, maybe it was through COVID or whatever.

This man might've been challenged. I'm not sure, David. I haven't watched a full video. This is honestly one of the first videos I've watched. It sounds like it was just late last year. Yeah. December 23rd.

Of last year. Yeah. Just a couple months now he's been. Yeah. I've been going through this. Is that my understanding? Yeah. And so what's funny is he brings up one of the first things of the missionaries about polygamy.

I mean, that's honestly something I don't even talk about with Mormon missionaries. So I'm not sure why he would even mention that. You know, again, we have a lot of people who used to be LDS, who we interact with in Utah on a daily basis almost, and almost all of them speak to the fact that missionaries obviously aren't great authorities on church history or even church doctrine.

They're taught that this is the scope in which you're supposed to talk about and that's where you stay, right? I mean, hard questions are asked, but they're taught to specifically go back to fundamentals of their system.

And so we even know people who used to be missionaries who said, yeah, we're not supposed to go into the deep stuff. We're supposed to bring them back to other things. So, you know, it's just two missionary, almost used to be teenagers a year ago, are not exactly the best people to investigate this system.

He really should have gone to all their doctrines. He should have gone to even the LDS church website. He should have gone to all these books and weighed them against scripture. If he simply weighed them against scripture, but again, it seems like for 47 years in his disillusionment, he didn't fully understand the scriptures.

So, yeah. When you're looking for flaws within Mormonism or any belief system, I wouldn't be looking to like polygamy. I'd be wanting to know what they say about Jesus, especially if you've been a pastor for 47 years, you should really know what the word of God says and warns about false Christs and different, like Messiahs that aren't the actual Messiah.

Why are you asking about polygamy? That's weird. Right. And then he kept speaking about being drawn by the Holy Spirit. He was resisting the Holy Spirit. And the fact is, it says in 1 John, beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God.

For many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this, you know, the spirit of God, every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God. So he's talking about a specific understanding that Jesus has given about himself.

If you don't believe who Jesus is by what he's explained himself to be, you've gone away and you've believed a different spirit. And these spirits are out in the world and they're saying, no, he's not really the eternal son of God.

And by the way, I was going to say earlier, even if you say that Jesus was an eternal intelligence, find that in the scriptures, you won't see it. I don't even think that's actually in the book of Mormon, intelligences.

It's neither of the, yeah, it is not. But essentially again, he says, test the spirit, test the spirits to see if that, if they are true. Right. And so if there's a deviation from what the word says, then you're not supposed to believe it.

Yeah, that's good, man. It says in the Bible that Jesus Christ was the same yesterday, today, and forever. So in his being as God, he was not once an intelligence that then came into being through a heavenly father and heavenly mother and an offspring.

That's just not in the scriptures, the same yesterday, today, and forever as God. So we need to understand that. And he does talk about, yeah, resisting the Holy spirit. He said his heart was grieved.

I mean, your heart is deceitful, man. It straight up says it, Jeremiah 17, nine. You guys have heard it from us probably so many times watching our evangelism videos, but your heart in our natural position before God, we are sinners.

It says in Romans 1, 18 through 32, that we exchanged the truth of God for a line. We end up worshiping a creation instead of the creator. So your heart isn't naturally inclined to love God in the things of God.

So if a spirit is coming to you and it's testifying to you of a different Jesus. So when pastor Wade here read first John four, it says to know that Jesus is the Christ. And then he comes in the flesh.

Well, what does that mean? We got to think like a Jew. Okay. When the Jews were waiting for the Messiah, they were waiting for God, Isaiah chapter nine, right? It says who the Messiah is going to be. He's going to come Emmanuel, wonderful counselor, everlasting father, not to be confused with the person of the father, the mighty God, Isaiah 10, then gives us El Gabor is the one who is coming in the flesh.