Dr. John Robbins Undermining Scriptural Authority! | Part One

Scriptural Authority, Interpretation, and the Problem of Proof-Texting

So what do we do with those people who say this is all about scriptural authority? Well, I want to ask them, do you eat oysters?

Yes, I do.

Do you wear clothing and more than one material?

Guilty.

Does your wife come to worship with you and talk?

Mm-hmm.

What do they base it on?

God's Word.

It's not about authority, it's about interpretation. And listen, the fact of the matter is, even Jesus got fed up with some of that Old Testament stuff.

Hold me back.

Dude, I'm telling you, man. Look, this is in your home state, dog.

Yeah, it's true. I own that one.

It's going to get worse. It's going to get a little bit worse here. And I mean, the whole thing's bad, but we're just going to... Jesus got fed up with that Old Testament stuff. That's His Word. All right, welcome everybody to another episode of the Parish Reform Podcast.

Well, today we're going to be critiquing a pastor of a church in Little Rock at the United Methodist Church in Pulaski, United Methodist Church in Little Rock, Arkansas. Come across this video. Some people I know had some questions about it.

So I listened to it, and I had to call up my apologetic dog to critique this with me and discuss it. So I want to welcome him first, and then we'll get right into it. So guess who it is, everybody? The apologetic dog.

What's up, Jeremiah?

What's going on? Thanks for having me on, Trey.

You got it, man. So, what about it?

What about it?

So you watch this video. I sent it to you. It was very hard for me to listen to.

Very hard.

It was just evil. It was like Satan in the garden, just twisting God's Word. Did God really say? What did you feel when you first listened to this?

Yeah, it hurt my heart, because you and I, we care about teaching the Scripture. We care about handling the Word of God with precision and with care, because we're going to give an account for souls one day.

And so one thing that he did, it's very deceptive. He just makes it all an issue of interpretation, not biblical authority. And so you can say that, but we understand what you're really meaning, because you can just say everything's an interpretation issue at that point.

And so at some point, we have to say, well, it's much deeper than an interpretation issue. The route that you've chosen has actually undermined God's Word and God's authority. So we'll get more into hermeneutics and how to properly interpret Scripture.

It's okay to have disagreement on tertiary issues, but you have to handle the Word of God with care. And like we're going to see in the sermon, he takes out proof text. We're going to contextualize those verses.

We're going to look at definitions of terms and really show the danger of how many professing pastors, how they simply just go to proof text.

And the danger, the thing is, when you don't know Scripture, when you really don't know it, and you just go in and you listen to somebody, I mean, they can pull the wool over your eyes. You know, and it happens all the time.

So I tell people we have to be creatures of the Word. We have to know God's Word. We have to study God's Word, because here's a guy who has his, I guess his PhD. It says Dr. John Robbins. So it seems as if, I mean, he dresses nice.

He's at a very nice church. He's been doing this for a long time, and surely he knows what he's talking about. So I just trust him, right? And that's what people do. But you find out, you're about to find out, he's wrong.

You know, so where do you want to jump in at here? Let's go. I want to show you a little clip. I want to show everybody a little clip first. Well, first of all, he's talking about 1 Corinthians chapter 1, verse 10.

Okay?

So let's just read this real quick, and I'll go here to 1 Corinthians 10. I mean, verse 1, 10. Let's see here. Let's see what it says. And Jeremiah, tell us what his point was here when he's reading this.

I'm sorry. I did 10. 1, 10. And I'll tell a little bit what he's saying. And the video that you need to go watch is on YouTube, and we'll be showing some clips of it. But it's called Who Has the Final Word?

Who Has the Final Word? And it's by Dr. John Robbins. So you can look that up on YouTube. We're going to show you little bits and pieces of it as we go. But he starts off by reading this right here. I appeal to you, brothers, right here, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.

For it's been reported to me that Chloe's people, that they're quarreling among you, my brothers. What I mean is that each one of you says, I follow Paul, I follow Paulus, I follow Cephas, or I follow Christ.

Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Will you baptize in the name of Paul? I thank God. So that's where he starts, and that's where his whole point. At that point, he doesn't read Scripture.

He doesn't break down Scripture. He uses this, like Jeremiah, you were saying, as a proof text as to why we shouldn't have divisions. And it shouldn't matter what Paul says. All that matters is what Jesus says, the red letters.

The red letters matter, right? And we're going to go deeper into that, but go ahead. I know you want to say something about that.

Yeah, well, I'm glad you started in verse 10 because Paul is talking about unity, right? He is saying that the whole purpose of the church is we're to be unified in God's truth. And so we're to have the same mind.

We're to have the mind of Christ, Philippians 2 talks about. And so Paul is talking about unity that exists in the church. And then verse 12 says, but what I mean is that each of you says, Now this person that is saying these things like, I follow Paul, I follow Apollos, I follow Cephas, I follow Christ.

This is someone that assumes disunity between Peter, Paul, Apollos, and Jesus. And so we have to keep in mind, Paul and Apollos, these are two different men that God has called in the ministry of Christ.

And they have different skill sets, but they are meant to complement one another in the unity of Christ. But what do I mean is that each one of you says this person is assuming that there is disunity with these people.

And it's interesting because the guy that we're critiquing, he is doing the exact thing that the Apostle Paul is warning against. This guy is basically saying, I follow Jesus. His red letters trump everything else in Scripture as though there is disunity with what Christ is saying, with what the Apostle Paul is saying.

And so for one, he's not understanding the context here because as you keep going, Paul says, is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you or were you baptized in the name of Paul? The point is, no, we were baptized into Christ, into his authority.

There's great unity there. I believe later, Trey, in 1 Corinthians 3, we see this idea of divisions being brought up with Paul and Apollos. And he says, look, we have different callings in God's ministry.

We understand that Apollos is someone that has eloquent speech. Paul's like, I'm not like that. I'm not gifted in that way. But you know what? I'm going to plant. I'm going to sow that gospel seed. Someone like Apollos is going to come and water.

But it's ultimately God that gives the increase.

Why?

Because we're unified in the things of the Lord.

There you go.

So he's doing exactly what Paul is getting on these people for doing, right? Taking things out of context. And later on in his sermon, he even talks about how Jesus does change scriptures. And he encourages us to change scripture as well.

I'll show you that. So let's go here. I think that I have his transcript printed out because you told me how to do that. That was awesome. Thank you for that. There's quite a few things here. I almost want to just play this clip right here.

Let me see something here.

Five.

Oh, my goodness.

Let's go here.

It's hard to really fast forward on this little thing.

You got this, T-Fish Daddy.

Okay. So check this out.

All right.

I just want to make a point. I think this is funny. And I just want to warn people and say, look, don't do this. Because this is never going to work out. Let's see. I don't know what's going on.

Without trying to vilify anybody, they made it abundantly clear it was over issues of human sexuality.

Well, I just thought that was funny when he says, I don't want to vilify anyone here. But, right, it's a Ricky Bobby move. You know, I don't want to say it. But, you know, when you say, I don't want to vilify anybody, but then you go ahead and vilify them, right?

You don't want to. Later on, he says, look, I don't want to be braggadocious. But then he goes on to brag about himself. Just very contradictory.

Okay.

And this is what I like to do when I'm talking to people. I just want to hold people to their own standard, right? That's what we do, right? And so when we hold them to his own standard, we see so many contradictions in his sermon during this whole thing, which people in the audience aren't picking up, obviously, because at the end of the whole sermon, they stand up clapping.

You know, and so what this is all about, really, this whole video starts out with these two girls who are in a mirage, what they call. You know, they call it a marriage. We call it a mirage. They're lesbians.

And this whole sermon is about homosexuality. And it's okay to be a part and a member of the church and be living in a homosexual relationship and not calling it sin. Because what he is saying is Jesus never says it's a sin.

And which goes back to what you were saying that when you say that Jesus and Paul are at odds with each other, right? We get into Leviticus later on. But do you want to add anything to that?

Yes.

So to kind of get us ready for some of the things he's going to be saying of letting Jesus have the final word. Well, the problem here is there's a misunderstanding of what Scripture is. Scripture is not just contained to the red letters of what Jesus said, which, by the way, Jesus did not write Scripture.

This was recorded by his apostles and those that were associated with the apostles. And so we have to understand that all Scripture is God breathed, whether you're reading the red letters or you're reading the black letters.

So it's not like there's a disunity between what Jesus says and what the Old Testament says. And then later what the rest of the New Testament says with the apostle Paul. So the way to demonstrate this is if Jesus is your standard, which it should be.

Well, then Jesus, the night before his crucifixion and John's gospel chapters 13, 14, 15, 16, 17. He is telling the apostles that he is going to send the spirit of truth to teach them truth, to guide them into all truth.

And so we understand that the apostle Peter would have been there and Jesus is promising him, especially the Holy Spirit, to be able to teach truth. So when you go look at 1st and 2nd Peter, right, what is 2nd Peter chapter 3 later say?

All these things that the apostle Paul says, some of them are hard to understand. Be it false teachers creeping inside the church to twist Scripture, to twist the writings of Paul, which is also Scripture.

So if you have a problem with the apostle Paul, you have a problem with what the apostle Peter said. And ultimately you have a problem with what Jesus said himself. And so if you're going to accept the words of Jesus and you accept the gospels, well, then you have to accept the book of Luke.

And if you go read, Trey, if you go read Acts chapter 9, Jesus appeared to Ananias and said, it's okay. He is a, the apostle Paul, Saul of Tarsus, is a chosen vessel of mine to bear my name to Gentiles, to kings and to the children of Israel.

And so if you have a problem with the apostle Paul, once again, you have a problem with what Jesus himself said about calling Paul to apostleship. And so it's not like there's this disunity once again, but rather all Scripture is breathed out by God and inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Yeah, that's the issue is that he is dividing God's word. I mean, it's just blatant. I mean, you watch the video. I mean, he even says that Jesus changes Scripture, like he changes Scripture. And I, and I know, so here's one or two things.

This guy has his PhD, right, in theology. Either he cheated and he never studied because he, but I know for, I know this guy knows better. I know if you went back and asked this guy 10 years ago, his stance, 20 years ago, whatever, he'd be like, no.

Obviously the Scripture is clear about this, but because culture has now shifted, this is where he's going. He knows, he knows, he knows how to read Scripture. He knows context. He knows genre. He knows that it's unity.

He knows that, he knows that, but he doesn't believe it anymore. And now he's teaching horrible things. He's doing what Satan did in the garden. He is twisting God's word and deceiving people. Okay. So I want to show you this little clip right here of what you're talking about, that Christ's words matter more than Paul's words, the disunity of the word of God.

Let's see if we can get this playing.

Peter, or they even follow Paul. And Paul makes it abundantly clear. Paul says, was I crucified for you? Were you baptized in my name? Don't follow me. I am not Jesus. The final word for us, the greatest voice for us in the United Methodist Church and in Christendom worldwide is the message of Jesus Christ.

It supersedes all else. But for some who are leaving the United Methodist Church, they have made the determination that scriptural authority is most important from their perspective. And I wonder, what does scriptural authority mean?

Wow. So see, he's questioning scriptural authority like what you were saying earlier. It's more about your interpretation. It's not authority. No, it is authority. Because what you're doing now, Mr. Preacher Man, Dr. Robbins, you're saying that your word has more authority than God's word, right?

He's saying that my word and my interpretation has more authority than the word of God. And God is wrong. And now I am changing scripture. And we'll show you in a minute where he even says it. I don't know if many people pick up on it.

But that's what it's about. It is about authority of scripture. Because interpretation, what do you say to people when they give you, they say, well, that's just my interpretation. What do you say to people like that?

Yeah. To me, this is a cop-out when he just says, well, this isn't a matter of biblical authority, because we may hear this later, but he says he takes personal offense at that, that his position, as other people see it, as he's abandoning scriptural authority.

Well, what he is saying is, well, of course I believe in the Bible's authority, but my interpretation of it just might be different as yours, and so we should still be able to fellowship and get along.

Well, you can say that it's just an interpretation issue, but that's everything. How we glean truths from God's word. So interpretation is everything, but not all interpretations are equally valid. That's really key in this conversation, because if you abandon the grammatical historical method of interpretation, you can make this book say anything that you want.

I try to encourage my students, you can make the Bible say anything you want. You can actually say the Bible teaches there is no God. But what does the whole verse in context say? The fool has said in his heart there is no God.

And so what this gentleman is doing is he's taking proof text. He's abandoning context. He's abandoning what we would call exegesis, drawing the true meaning out from Scripture. And if he just says, well, that's just my interpretation, and you have your interpretation.

Well, then fine, Mr. Preacher Man. We'll take your interpretation and see if it actually matches the context, because if it doesn't, you are twisting God's word for your own agenda. Trey, you and I talked about this.

That's exactly how Jesus was tempted in the wilderness, right? It's not just enough to know Scripture, but you have to rightly understand Scripture's meaning, because guess who else has read the Bible from cover to cover many, many, many, many times?

The devil himself.

Satan. And he's not going to be braggadocious here in a minute. I'm going to show that. He doesn't want to be braggadocious, but for 13 consecutive years, he's read the Bible cover to cover. I mean, so that's why you should believe me.

See, this is his appeal to the congregation. Don't read and study yourself. Trust me. I've read the Bible cover to cover 13 consecutive years. I know the Bible. But we're going to go on and just pick up where we left off right here and see what he says on this right here.

Check this out. This is right where we left off.

There are those who say God said it, I believe it, and that's all there is to it. And they are making reference to the Bible. Well, let me just tell you what the Bible says in the Old Testament. In the Old Testament, the Bible says this.

Don't eat lobster. Don't eat shrimp. Don't eat oysters. And I know some of you sinful people have done that before. The Bible in the Old Testament says don't wear clothing of more than one material. The Bible in the Old Testament says if your obstinate teenage son refuses to obey you, take him outside the city gates and stone him to death.

What?

The Old Testament says all kinds of things that are offensive. If it's that time of the month for a woman in the Old Testament, Scripture says that she is unclean and everything she touches is unclean.

Now, I know I'm playing a lot here, but I want you to get this.

Sure, that's good.

Because we're going to break this thing down here in just a second. But this guy knows better. You know better. You know better.

Or I don't hear the sound.

Uh-oh, because I put it times two. That's why.

That's right.

Is unclean and everything she touches is unclean. The Bible also says no tattoos.

I'm in trouble.

It's in there. It's Scripture. Is that the authority? Flip over to the New Testament.

You see that? You see how he's doing it? So that's what the Bible says. This is how even the Galatian heresy, this is what the Judaizers did when they came to Galatia. When they told these people who didn't know the law, they didn't understand the law, they didn't have the Old Testament.

And they came in there and said, look, Paul says, yes, faith in Jesus Christ. And, of course, you have to have faith in Jesus Christ. But look here in Leviticus and look in Deuteronomy. You also have to do these things as well.

And so they read it and they're like, oh, my goodness, it does say that. And then we got to do it, right? You're playing on the minds and the hearts of people. That's what you're doing, Bob. And it's offensive to me and many other people.

But let's just keep going on because now let's go in the New Testament, he says.

People will say that's just Old Testament stuff. In the New Testament, it says women are to keep silent in church. You know what that means? When you darken the doors of the church, you're not supposed to speak.

You can't sing a hymn. You can't lead a worship service. You certainly cannot preach. The Old and the New Testaments.

Pause it here in a second.

Yeah.

So this one upset me, too. And this is a classic example of taking a verse out of context. So talking, you know, women not being able to speak, right? So that's actually mentioned a few places in the New Testament.

So I believe probably the best example is in 1 Timothy 2. Paul says he does not permit a woman to teach or exercise authority over man. And so in other places it talks about she is not to speak. Well, he says when you look at the whole context, he says, let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness.

And so I've had to teach on this passage and other passages in 1 Corinthians 11. What it means to not speak is to learn submissively. Guess what? The majority of the men are not to speak in the congregation either.

The ones that are speaking are the ones that are teaching, the ones that are elders, that are overseers in the church, leading corporate worship. And so it just bothers me because he's making it sound like the Bible is painting this picture in an ancient context that women are not valuable.

And we've progressed past that.

No.

Women are precious in the sight of God, and he has designed them for a very specific role. That submissiveness that women have either in marriage or what their role in the church is a reflection of the gospel, looking to how Jesus perfectly submitted to the Father.

So I take offense when I hear other preachers and Bible teachers abusing God's Word.

Yeah.

Good.

And it should offend us. It should offend more people. But the sad thing is in our culture, we live in Jeremiah, we're probably offending people for standing up for the truth and critiquing this man who says homosexuality is right and good and women should shut up and just butcher the Scripture.

That's also offensive to me. Speaking the truth and standing up for God's Word is offensive to self-proclaiming Christians.

Yep. I digress.

Let's go back to Johnny Robbins. Let's see what he says. He goes on.

It says that. It also says. We are going to have to put a big bucket out there and you drop all of your wedding rings and your necklaces into it before you come in here. And once you're in here, don't you dare say a word.

Modesty.

Exactly.

Scripture oftentimes in the New Testament, whether we like it or not, based on the culture in that day and time, subjugates women to a status of inferiority.

Nope.

The New Testament also says from the pen of Peter, the leader of the early church, that it's okay to be a slave. In fact, slaves, if your master brutalizes you for something you have not done, just take the whipping.

Just deal with it. Now, that's in Scripture. I just got to tell you.

I don't even know what to say to this guy. There's so much I want to say, and I want to invite him on here later on and discuss and defend himself on what we're doing here. I want to be fair about it.

I would love for that to happen, and we're going to ask him to come on here with us. But here we go. You ready for this part? Here's why you should believe him, everybody. Let me tell you why you should believe him.

Not because he's just picking verses here and picking verses there and picking verses here and throwing them at you, and you're like, wow, this man really knows his Bible. He's really just throwing Scriptures out there.

Now, don't worry that it's all out of context, and it's just to fit his narrative of what he's wanting to say and convince you of. If you don't believe that, now you better believe him. He's about to tell you why you should believe him.

Like this. Here's why.

Here you go.

Here it is, my friend.

It isn't to be braggadocious.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Whatever I'm about to say is not to be braggadocious. It's not. I mean, I hate to say it. I hate to even say it. I don't mean to be braggadocious.

With all due respect, it's a part of the makeup of who I am. I made a commitment to God a long time ago that I would read the Bible from cover to cover every year. I did that starting in 2010. I have now read the Bible for 13 consecutive years from cover to cover.

I read it every single day of my life outside of my reading to read the Bible in its entirety. I know Scripture.

You might know it, buddy. You just don't believe it. See, that's the thing. You might know it. Satan knows it. See, I mean, here he is. I don't want to be braggadocious, but for 13—this is just the makeup of who I am.

That's how good I am, y 'all. Way better than y 'all sitting there in the pews. For 13 consecutive years, I read the Bible cover to cover. I mean, I know the Bible.

Well—.

Trey, and I don't know this man, but I would suspect—.

I don't either, but that just ticks me off.

I would suspect he actually doesn't know the Bible. Listen to what he says. He doesn't know the Bible. I hear these same arguments from atheists on the Internet, and so it makes me question if he actually knows the Bible.

Well, wait.

Let me show you how he doesn't know the Bible. You ready? This is his next sentence. Here's how he doesn't know the Bible.

Right here.

And there are passages of Scripture, particularly in the Old Testament, that make God look vindictive and spiteful and just pure mean.

Not holy. Not just. Or wrathful against sin.

Or merciful.

But hurts my heart. He's so mean. It makes me feel bad.

So—.

Wait.

It gets worse. Can you hold that thought? Seriously. And then unload. So here's a guy who knows his Bible, but there is Scripture. Look, y 'all. It just makes God, in the Old Testament, look vindictive and spiteful.

Well, if you don't know the Bible, if you don't understand God's Word, if you don't know what's going on, I guess, for you, you don't see His love and His grace all through the Old Testament. His mercy and His kindness.

His holiness. Like you said. No, no, no. You see, Mr. I-read-consecutive-cover-to-cover -13-year-old. I know the Bible. I don't want to brag. Vindictive and mean. Well, get ready, Jeremiah. You can have it after this one.

Okay?

That's why we have Jesus.

Ooh.

Gnosticism. That's why we have Jesus. He came in.

Tag.

You're it, Jesus. Now you get to be Mr. Nice Guy because, see, I'm mean and vindictive and spiteful.

Here we go.

To give us a real picture of who God is. A God of grace and a God of love and a God of mercy and a God of inclusion and a God of forgiveness.

Go ahead. He's a different guy, right?

I wonder if he's read the book of Revelation because last I checked—.

At least 13 times he's read it.

Well, in Revelation, Jesus is coming back to rule and reign with a rod of iron to put everything under his feet. Right? To judge the wicked and the dead. Right? To literally put everything on display.

And so Jesus is fulfilling what the Old Testament promised. And so I love what Bodie Bauckham says because he's addressed this very thing many times. A lot of people that say, God, the Old Testament is so mean and Jesus is just so meek and mild.

Bodie says, keep reading to the book of Revelation. Read the whole counsel of God here.

That's why I tell people, look, he's a lion. He chose, thank God, to be a lamb. But deep down he's a lion. And he's coming. And so I just want you to hear this and I want people to think through this with us.

And we might have to do another episode on this to get through the whole thing because I don't want to leave anything out. I want to go through this thing and let's talk about it, deal with it, and then have him come on.

And if he wants to, you know, to show us some things, explain some things and see. But he's just going to contradict himself even more because this is what he said. Unless he just comes and repents and says, you know what, you're right, I'm wrong.

I mean, I butchered that one, you know, but I think he did it intentionally. So I just want to keep going. And it gets to this right here. This is where the wow factor is because he's just divided God.

Like the Old Testament and New Testament God. Two different gods. That's complete Gnosticism. But I want to hear the rest of this just so we can be fair in context. We're not just chopping things up, right?

Here we go. Because Jeremiah, we've had people do that to us before, right? Just chop up like a ten second or a three second deal. Here we go.

Leviticus, the Ceremonial Law, and the Moral Law

So what do we do with those people who say this is all about scriptural authority? Well, I want to ask them, do you eat oysters?

Yes, I do.

Do you wear clothing and more than one material?

Guilty.

Does your wife come to worship with you and talk? What do they base it on?

God's word.

It's not about authority. It's about interpretation. And listen, the fact of the matter is even Jesus got fed up with some of that Old Testament stuff.

Hold me back.

Dude, I'm telling you, man. Look, this is in your home state, dog.

Yeah, it's true. I own that one.

It's going to get worse. It's going to get a little bit worse here. And I mean, the whole thing's bad, but we're just going to. Jesus got fed up with that Old Old Testament stuff. That's his word. Oh, here we go.

Here we go.

Ready?

You remember what Jesus said? You have heard that it was said an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, which is in the Old Testament. But then Jesus says, but I say to you, turn the other cheek. Go the extra mile.

Love your enemy. Jesus took an Old Testament text and said, not anymore.

What?

All right, you go first.

I mean, I'm about to pick up my chair and throw it. I mean, that dude. Here's what I'm saying. Robbins, you know better. I'm just going to tell you, man, I'm going to give you way more credit. You know better.

Like when Jesus says, you know, you've heard it said, you shall not murder. But I say, right, you shouldn't even hate anybody in your heart. See, no, no, no. He didn't change the law. No, he interpreted it from these legalists who says it says this.