Questions & Answers

The Context of Romans 8 and the Doctrine of Predestination

What good would it be if the Lord could save people, but he couldn't keep them saved? Think about that. The Lord can save all these people, but without predestination, if he can't keep them saved, what good was it?

He wouldn't be sovereign. So, we are saved. I believe I will persevere in the faith. Why? Because of my strength? Because of my determination? No, it's because of God's strength and his predetermination.

Amen. Okay, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. If you want to view it differently, that's fine. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you're wrong. Alright, questions?

Yes, Lenny. I have a question. Where does Romans 8 .28 go? Is it this or the one before it? I should never take a verse out of context. Everybody uses Romans 8 .28. Okay. What about John 3 .16? If you didn't ask for this, I don't know if it goes with this part or not.

Well, that's a good question.

Romans chapter 8. Now, I realize this doesn't answer it, but in my Bible, you know, it's broken into sections and then a section is given a header and then it's the next section. In my Bible, it's lumped in with the verses that I read.

29, 30, 31. Well, let's just read the verses before it, just to make sure. Paul says, Likewise, the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Now he who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is because he makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God. So he's talking about prayer here. And then he gives Romans 8 .28 and we know that God works all things together for good.

And then he gets into the preaching. I would say based on the context, because it goes from prayer to this other subject, I think that I was using it in the proper context. I'm not saying they're not connected, but I don't think someone could say that Romans 8 .28 That verse deals with the sovereignty of God better than any other verse in the Bible.

That God causes all things to work together for good. That's one of the greatest verses on the sovereignty of God. But I'm sure people do take Romans 8 .28 out of context. The main verse people take out of context is I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

Well, you can't really do all things. You can do a lot of things. But what's the context?

Okay. Yes, Joyce. And back to 28. That all things work together for good to those who are good, to those who have the call.

Very good point. Right. Yeah. He mentions the calling. And then he goes into the calling in verse 30. And this is the call that all who are called here are what? You know, it's implied that all who are called are justified.

All who are justified are glorified. So if you receive this, that's why we call it an effectual call. Or it's called irresistible grace. And that's another thing people object to. But if God calls you, you will be saved.

You will be justified and glorified. As opposed to the gospel call where we call sinners to repent and turn to Christ. Well, not all of them who get that call are going to believe. All who receive God's call will.

So two different calls.

Good question. Yes. I have a two-fold question. I was thinking more about the book of Jonah. And I was thinking about how Jonah said to God, I knew you would do this. And after the fact when he's angry that he didn't bring wreckage to the town.

Sorry, I don't remember it exactly. But it makes me wonder, because I haven't gotten through the Old Testament, where do Jews think that people who are not Jewish go?

Right. Yeah, I hear what you're saying. So Jews, it's like saying, well, what do Christians believe? Well, Christians believe all sorts of different things. So there would have been Jews who said, hey, if you're not Jewish, there's no salvation for you.

And that's the way a lot of them thought. Was that true? No, there were plenty of non-Jews, people that were not, and it's not even Ruth and Rahab who were heathen and then they converted to the nation of Israel.

No, there were redeemed people from all the different countries. Just because we don't have a list of their names doesn't mean they don't exist. People in Nineveh got saved. CB was talking about that on Sunday, like the men in the ship that was going to Tarshish.

It doesn't say they got born again, but he believes that they did. It is logical to think that many of them would after seeing that. So all sorts of people got saved in the Old Testament outside of the nation of Israel.

And there are people in the New Testament, remember the Roman centurion. I mean, he had more faith in God than a lot of the Jews did. And that would be true today. Like there's people that are not in churches on Sunday morning that are saved.

Now, should they be in church? Yeah, I would say yes, but just because somebody's not within the visible church, it doesn't mean that everybody who's not here on Sunday morning is lost. You don't want to fall into that mindset.

So not everyone who is part.

Of the nation of Israel was lost. Okay, so this is my last question. Okay. So in Matthew 15, 21, a Gentile shows her faith. She's crying to Jesus to help her. And Jesus says, I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

And then he says, it is not good to take the children's bread and throw it to little dogs. But then she says, yes, Lord, yet even the little dogs eat crumbs which fall from their master's table. And he says, O woman, raise your faith.

Let it be to you as you desire. But that just, part of me was wondering at the beginning if he wasn't planning on saving her.

Until she showed her faith. My understanding is that Jesus knew, I think it's safe to say that he knew her faith. He saw her faith. And he was trying to get it out of her. Okay. He was testing her, you could say, to get that profession of faith out of her.

And then he.

Blesses her because of it. So when he said he was only sent for the children of the house of Israel.

Yeah, in his ministry for three and a half years, Jesus did not go to, you know, Babylon or he did not go outside. His mission was for Israel. And that's true. But when he came across someone who is not Jewish, there were times he did interact with them and he did praise them for their faith.

So it's sort of a general statement. I came to preach to the lost sheep of the house of Israel which he did do. Yeah. But then once the nation and the leaders rejected it and the church started to get persecuted, then they went to other nations and then it spread.

But it was to the Jew first. They had priority because they were God's chosen people. When they rejected it as a group, then, okay, now we're going to the Gentiles. But that was the plan all along. Yeah.

I've heard the term, I can't think of it now,.

Carnal Christians and the Difference Between Visible Church Membership and Salvation

Carnal Christians. Yeah. Is that people that come to church and profess to be saved but yet they don't walk the Lord?

Carnal Christians, yeah. Paul, to the Corinthians, he said, you are carnal. Because they were fighting with each other and I'm of Paul, I'm of Apollos, and their behavior was not good. And he called them carnal.

As opposed to someone who's spiritual. But Paul said that to people who were in the church, had been baptized, had a profession of faith. So a carnal Christian is somebody who's part of the church, but yeah, their behavior is not what it should be.

And you know, that happens. Some churches, that's just like standard procedure. But yeah, that's what he's talking about. People have tried to expand that. And again, I'm not saying that if someone's outside of the church that they're not saved.

But people have expanded that to as long as you said the sinner's prayer when you're four years old, doesn't matter. You're good to go no matter what. You're just a carnal Christian. Yeah, that's a real stretch.

But, God knows, you know, what we see, we see what people say and what they do. And the average person, we get to see their behavior for what? A few minutes per week? You don't really know where someone's at.

And so yeah, I mean, there are carnal Christians. But they're not carnal in the sense that they're totally of the flesh. Because in another sense in Romans, Paul talks about those who are of the flesh whether they're not saved.

So it depends on what you're talking about.

All right. Yes, Datev. So, how do you really know if you're saved? This is a question. This is actually, I've been wondering this for the past few months after reading the book of John. Because it also kind of goes back to that part where Jesus, I forget where the Bible had said this, but where Jesus said, I don't even know you.

Right? Yep. Right. And you said it doesn't happen until the end. Right? And if you could just kind of clarify that when it says it doesn't happen until the end, like someone, like people in this church, in this congregation, you know, those are just things that they're saved.

How do you really know? Right. Right.

Well, first of all, I'd go to 1 John 5 .13 where John says that you may know that you have eternal life. Let's turn there. Just to establish the fact that you can know. Because this is a common teaching among Roman Catholics that the Catholic church teaches you cannot know whether or not you're saved.

They call it the sin of presumption. So you never really know. And that's the way it should be, according to them. And then there's churches that believe you can lose your salvation. Obviously, if you could lose it, then you would always sort of wonder, okay, I know I was saved, but then I might have lost it.

Here's what John says. 1 John 5 .13, you're all looking at it. John says, These things I've written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

So, how do you know? You start out, how do you know that you have eternal life? Well, that you believe in the Son of God. So you ask somebody, do you believe that Jesus is the Son of God? Yes. Of course, we know there's people who say that, and then you find out their beliefs are so far outside.

They have to have an orthodox profession of faith. Okay, so they have to believe the right things about Jesus and the cross and the resurrection. And then, well, I believe all the right things, but still, how do I know?

I would ask someone, do you love Christ? If you can honestly say that you love Christ, you have the correct beliefs, my thing is is there growth? That would be my advice to people. Look and see, is there growth?

You can never judge someone's salvation, or even your own, based on how you acted today, or something you did five minutes ago. You have to see, am I growing? Notice what he says, that you may continue to what?

That you may continue to believe. And Jesus says, if you love me, keep my commandments. So I would say there has to be a credible profession of faith, the right gospel, the right beliefs, which we teach every week, and then is there that evidence?

Are you obeying Christ? Not perfectly, because nobody does it perfectly, but is there growth? You can look back at, man, today, earlier today, I really messed up. I don't know if I'm saved. And the more you continue in sin, it's natural to doubt your salvation the deeper you get into sin.

That's kind of a natural thing. But if you can see that you're growing and you're headed in the right direction, that there's some sort of fruit there, that's how you would know. You can know for yourself, you can never really know, he never says you can know for sure about other people, but you can know for yourself.

You can have assurance. That's how I would test it.

I believe that you also have the desire to learn. Once you become saved and you just want to grow and learn more and more about the Lord all the time. Yeah.

Yep. Yep. That's all part of the evidence. All right. One more. Or maybe not one more. Laughter. All right. All right. Well, let's close in prayer. Heavenly Father, we thank you for this time and we thank you for each one who does have a desire to know you.

Lord, they're here on a Wednesday night. And I just pray that each one of us, as John said, would continue to believe that Jesus is the Son of God. And that we would grow and that we would be sanctified and conformed to the image of Christ.

Lord, you have predestined it to all those who believe. And Father, I just pray that you would keep us in your will. I ask it in Jesus' name. Amen.