Divorce and Remarriage - Theological Discussion

Theology Throwdown Introduction and Podcast Community Context

Welcome to Theology Throwdown. We are glad to have you with us. It was fun to watch as we were going through and starting this off and having the intro go and I'm watching Jamal start throwing some punches there.

Yeah, he scares me. I'm afraid that one of those punches may have come through the monitor. So if you're new to this podcast or this video, whichever you're watching or listening, this is a ministry of the Christian podcast community.

What we're going to have is different Christian podcasters that are part of the Christian podcast community. We gather together, we discuss our differences with love, with charity for one another, and to basically discuss theology.

The goal has always been that we would discuss our differences, but so far this is number four and so far we've come to complete agreement on everything, which is really hard to discuss our differences when we're all agreeing.

So we figured we would come up with a topic, thanks to Jamal Bandi of the Prescribed Truth podcast, that there's no way we could all possibly agree. And then I thought about it when we chose this topic and went, yikes, this one may get too emotional because this is a very emotional topic.

And we're going to talk about divorce and remarriage. We're going to talk about whether God allows divorce, whether God allows remarriage, who can remarry. We're going to talk about those who are in leadership, can they be divorced.

So these are the things that we're going to be discussing. And as we discuss these things, there may be some of you who are listening that have been through divorce or are remarried. There's going to be some things that maybe they get emotional, they may get too close to home.

Just keep in mind, we don't know who's listening, so we're not saying anything that we're saying with you in mind. And we do, though, want to try to give some biblical answers to these issues and have good discussions on this.

So we want to, I just want to preface, I don't typically preface this podcast with this, but I know that this is a topic for many of you who are listening that could be very emotional. And so we want you to think about what's being said by each of the people.

Not everyone's going to agree, I'm sure. And if there's any things that you would like to reach out to us and discuss, maybe when we do something like this, sometimes there are some things where you have people who want to discuss things.

And so the thing is, is when we discuss this, if you want to reach out to us, I want to make that available. We have several pastors who are here tonight discussing this. So if you do have issues that need, just contact me at info at striving for eternity dot O-R-G, info at striving for eternity dot O-R-G, and we'll try to make sure if you have a question for a specific person here, let us know and we'll try to get that to that person.

So with that, I guess since we have a number of folks in, I'll give the order in which we're all going to introduce ourselves and our podcast. And what I'll do is just because we have so many and people aren't going to remember the order, probably including me, I'll just go one by one and ask each to introduce yourself.

But the order I'm going to do, just so you know, I'll start off with Keith, Daniel, Eve, James, Phil, and then Jamal. So I'll start off with you, Keith, if you want to introduce yourself and your podcast.

Keith Heltzley, MD. Yeah, this is Keith Heltzley, and I'm a host of Quest for Truth, and it's a podcast where we try to talk about worldviews and how it relates to Christian Bible theology, to have it in a nutshell.

We also once a month do an audio drama, or try to. And we try to be casual at times, and we try to dig in deep when we need to, to discuss the Bible.

All right, Daniel, Daniel is one of the newer members of the Christian Podcast Community, so Daniel, introduce yourself and your podcast.

Well, hello, my name is Daniel Minnick, and I am the host of the Truthspresso podcast. And in the Truthspresso podcast, we talk about the Word of God, we go deep into the Word of God on theological topics, and we'd also talk about some political topics and challenging the conventional wisdom of mainstream politics with a fine-toothed comb.

And I know that kind of sounds like a rather vanilla description of a Christian podcast, but I'll add some spice to it and, you know, make it chocolate too, and so on like that. But that's pretty much Truthspresso in a nutshell.

So I invite you all to listen.

And clearly, he's got that radio voice. Now, we'll have to see what Jamal is going to say, but was that a throw, a shout out there to our chocolate brother here, Jamal? I don't know, I'm just saying.

I mean, I got excited about that, I'm like, yeah, that's what I'm talking about.

I saw you going like this in the air, I was like, all right. Eve, you want to introduce yourself and your podcast?

Yes, I'm Eve Franklin, and I'm co-host of Are You Just Watching, along with my co-host Tim Martin, and we talk about movies from a Christian worldview, not just general reviews, but dig into the depth of movies and try to apply Scripture to what we're viewing and not just turn our brain off.

And I told you, Eve, that I watched a movie recently, and I tried to comment about it on Facebook, and I got the name of the movie wrong. That's how into the movie I was. I was trying to mention Overcomer, and instead I called it Courageous.

So at least I got the Kendrick Brothers movies right, at least that much. But I think I messed up the order here, but we'll go with James D. White, not James R.

Well, first off, Andrew, I think all Christian movies are about the same, but so I could see where you'd mix up the names there. But James White, one of the co-hosts at the Everyday Ministry podcast, and we're simply a podcast that just talks about ministry on various different perspectives within the church, pastoral, youth ministry, church member, whatever the case may be, and just address different topics in the church and ministry as a whole.

Okay, let's see, we got Phil. Let's stop and think about it, Phil. Yes, let's stop and think about it.

It's a very important thing to do. My name is Phil Sessa, and I co-host Stop and Think About It podcast with Glenroy Clark, who's also known as the West Indian wordsmith. And so our podcast is trying to challenge Christians to think critically about what they believe and how it aligns with scripture.

So we talk about things theological, things happening in the culture, social issues, and the like, and try to look at everything through the lens of God's word.

And Phil also with Stop and Think About It is one of the newer additions to the Christian podcast community. So if you have not been listening to True Espresso or Stop and Think About It, those are two new podcasts to go check out.

Lastly is, I guess, the chocolate brother, is that what we're now going with, Jamal? I thought it was woke brother. Yeah, that's woke brother. He corrected me.

He corrected me. It's woke brother. As you should. You've been doing good lately. I'm proud of you. But as you said, my name is Jamal Bandy. I'm with Prescribed Truth podcast. And similarly with Prescribed Truth podcast, I just seek to distribute truth that a doctor describes to the church and the world today.

The doctor being God, not myself. I just distribute it to this world that's full of errors, and so that's it.

So he had to throw that in because he knew I was going to let you all know he's the doctor. You know, he's the one prescribing truth here, it's for sure. So you know, he must think he's the doctor. All right.

All right, so let's get into this topic and let's start. I'll throw this out for anyone to answer first. We also want to try to make sure everyone gets a chance to answer. So I know we have two pastors in here.

You got to, you know, restrict. It's not a sermon. Okay, we got three pastors in here technically, but all right. So is divorce allowed in the Bible? Who wants to go first on that one? I believe it's allowed in certain instances.

Okay. Now, I should mention this, that the reason we're doing this as a topic, Jamal, was off of you did three episodes on divorce and remarriage. Yeah.

Well, just the topic of divorce, I didn't touch on remarriage just yet. That's coming.

So we do want to make sure you go back and listen to those episodes. They will be linked in the show notes for this, so you'll have that there. So you think that divorce could be allowed in certain circumstances.

Which ones?

I think there's a, and I would love to hear input on this, but in the scripture where Paul talks about, in the case of being married to an unbeliever who desires to leave, he mentions how if you're married to an unbeliever, and he does give a point to say, you know, that this is something that he's saying, but not the Lord, even though we know all scripture is God breathed.

But he says that if the unbeliever desires to live with you, then don't divorce them. But if they desire to leave, then let them go for the sake of peace. I'm just paraphrasing with that. So I think in an instance like that, that will be the case.

I don't think it will be a case, a case of abandonment and stuff like that.

Yeah. Abandonment. Yeah. I would agree with Jamal on that as well. First Corinthians seven, I believe, abandonment. So if somebody wants to leave, they don't want to stay in it, and they just take off.

You know, it's not the bond chain. They don't have to stay in the marriage. So I'd like to...

I'm sorry. Go ahead. Yes, please go ahead. Okay. So I just like to bring up what we probably, I hope we would probably all agree on, that the bottom line is that divorce is always considered a negative thing in the Bible.

And unlike what Hollywood might portray, it is not a prize to be won or a reward to be gained. It's always a tragic thing, and it is at best the least evil to remedy a difficult situation. And we know that marriage was established by God in the Garden of Eden when he created Adam and Eve.

It's an institution that he established as a picture of the... It's a mystery to point toward Christ and the church, according to Ephesians 5, 32. That this marriage between Christ and the church is perfect and will never end in divorce.

So we keep that in mind. But unfortunately, as fallen humans, we can mess up God's pictures with our sin problem. But to answer the question, is divorce permitted? I would... To appeal back to the law, yes, according to the law, there is the permission for a bill of divorcement in Deuteronomy 24, 1, it mentions that if the man takes a wife and he finds no favor in his eyes because he has found some uncleanness in her, then let him write her a bill of divorcement.

And then Jesus kind of appealed to this in Matthew 19, in verse 8, that Moses granted the bill of divorcement, but it is because of the hardness of our hearts. And I'd like to maybe get some feedback on what the grounds for divorce, what does this verse mean about the man finds uncleanness in her?

Okay, so which verse are we going to go to?

Matthew 5? Possibly the Hebrew meaning of the word for what the man finds, the uncleanness in her. And it seems that Jesus appeals to this verse and defines it in Matthew 19, 8, when discussing with the disciples why Moses granted the bill of divorcement, but also the exception that Jesus gives, or yeah, the exception, the grounds for divorce.

Okay, so the passage says this, just so we can get folks to know what it says, and we should always read context. So we'll start in Matthew 19, verse 3. I think we're going to spend some time, I'm sure, in Matthew 5 and Matthew 19.

Matthew 19, 3 to 11 says this,. So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate. They said this to him while he, they said to him, why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce to send her away?

And he said to them, because of the hardness of your heart, Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife except for sexual immorality and marries another commits sexual immorality.

The disciples said to him, if such is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry. But he said to them, not everyone can receive the same, but only those to whom it was given. Well, and then he goes on to start changing topics.

So that's the passage that you wanted to discuss. So this passage, let me ask this, does this, this passage seems to allow for divorce in the case of sexual immorality? Do you guys, anyone, I guess the question is, does everyone agree or disagree with that?

I said it, I don't think it matters whether we believe it or not.

Yeah, I think this particular passage, that's why I really want to bring this up, that I don't, I'm in a position where I don't think it's talking about sexual immorality for an actual married couple.

And I want to give a preface for that. In this text, I really want to hear this because this is something when my pastor went over this at our church, when he went on, when he went through Matthew 19, this is something that he brought up.

And it was the first time I've heard this position. And I read a couple of the articles and I really would like to get to take on this. And it seemed to make sense to me. And so in that portion, when he talks about the exception clause, as far as I say to whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality in marriage, another woman commits adultery.

The claim that was made was that in the case of, you think about in this Jewish context, that even the engagement was just as serious as the marriage itself, whereas both parties would be considered each other's spouses, though yet they have not yet consummated the marriage.

An example he gave was dealing with Mary and Joseph, how when when Mary was found with child, this Bible tells us that Joseph sought to divorce her quietly. And my question, you know, think about this in our context, like, OK, you got somebody who just gets engaged, they just propose, they give a ring.

You know, if you want to leave, you ain't got to divorce them. You just talk about the marriage.

But in this context, get the ring back and get the ring.

You hear the Bronx coming through.

But in this case, it was like, OK, she's found with child. In Joseph's mind, she committed adultery. She was sexually immoral and therefore he sought to divorce her quietly. Yet, you know, he was told by the angel not to and that, you know, she was pregnant with Jesus.

And so, but, you know, they still referred to her as his wife and him as her husband. And I always thought that was interesting, the scripture, because then we know later on that after he went, they went forward and married Mary and then he sent it not to sleep with her until Jesus was born.

And so, you know, just thinking about that, guys, that's something that my pastor brought up. I looked into a little bit and I was like, OK, you know, this thing makes sense to me. But I really would like to bring that out, because so in my stance, to answer the question, Andrew, is that based on my understanding of this, I would say that even in the case of sexual morality, that I feel like two people who are married to still make it through that, you know, two Christians, two believing Christians can make it through that and survive.

Well, I guess I'll give my position. I believe that I so first off, when it comes to the I think most of the issue is not so much with the divorce as much as it is with remarriage. I believe there's cases that can be made for separation.

Like if someone's life is at risk, you have you have someone who's being violent. It's for safety's sake, you know, separation may be necessary. But when it comes to the divorce, I take a position that if someone if someone initiates the divorce, they're not the victim.

If they're if they're the one asking for the divorce. And therefore, I would argue if they're not the victim, they never get a right to remarry. I don't believe. I believe that what you see with the exception clauses that we'd see, we've mentioned sexual immorality and abandonment.

I would argue that those are ones where the other person has made a has to make a permanent change where there's. So in other words, I would say if if someone commits sexual adultery. That's not grounds for you to go and ask for a divorce and then remarry someone else.

But if they go and commit adultery and and leave you because of that adultery or marry someone else when they marry someone else, that's a permanent thing. I think I would argue then at that case, the victim in that the person who was who was abandoned or they were the one that got the the the other person divorced them over this issue, then therefore, I think a person can remarry their abandon for the faith because of Christianity and they go off and and start a relationship or marry someone else.

Again, I would say that someone can now with this, I'm going to preface something and give a little bit of a caveat to my view. As a as someone who, you know, as a pastor, as someone who's done counseling, the issue that I would have is there's never a time when you can just take one person's side and and give counsel in an area like this.

There's far too many times that you're going to have two sides of an issue and both sides make themselves out to be the victims. So anytime that someone comes to me and her has in the past come to me wanting to be remarried, having been divorced, one of the things I've always sought to do is talk to the other person to get both sides, because I cannot say to someone, especially if they're asking me to marry them, I would not be able to do that without ensuring that they weren't the one that that caused it.

Let me give the example in Mormonism. You know, it's very important who you're married to. I used to work with a Mormon in Mormonism. They allowed for divorce with sexual immorality. So what ended up happening was the woman I worked with, because she was a Mormon and her husband wasn't.

And that meant she couldn't get to the celestial kingdom without him. She refused him any physical relationship for two years until he went out and had an affair. And as soon as he had an affair, she divorced him and said she was the victim because he had the affair.

But yet in my discussing it with her, she knew what he was going to do by withholding that. And so she actually is, I would say, in the wrong for purposely causing the affair so she could have the way out.

And I say that to say just because someone says they had that my spouse had sexual immorality doesn't mean that that's the whole story. So that's my position. Whose position haven't we gone through yet, James?

Oh, sorry. So just a quick question. So on the aspect you mentioned with engagement being as if you're married, does it have to be an either or? Can it can it be both and?

It could very well be. And I'm open to that being the case. And it's something I haven't said. OK, so the position and this is like I said, this is something I disagree with a little bit about because in this situation he was saying, well, in the case of divorce, then there should be no remarriage, you know, period.

So but when he came across this passage and he laid that out, as far as the understanding goes, I saw how it could make sense. But then I looked at the passage we read before that. And he's basically saying, like, go back to what Andrew had read.

He says, OK, verse four is like, have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female and said, for this reason, a man should leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife and the two shall become one flesh.

So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate. So I think in a case like that, it's like, OK, well, who's causing the separation? Is, you know, Jesus is referring to, you know, asking about the law.

I think the Pharisees are understanding Jesus to mean that, OK, you're telling us we shouldn't get a divorce at all. So, like, why did we have this certificate of divorce? And because the hardness of heart.

And so I'm thinking the point here is he's making it like divorce should be out of the question, you know. But then we have this case that comes up later on when we have this exception clause. And just I'm just thinking about, like I said, we see an example with Mary and Joseph.

And it's clear there. And it's like, OK, well, these two, obviously they aren't yet married, but he was betrothed. Yet scripture referred to her as his wife. And he sought to divorce her quietly, which there'll be no fault on his part for doing so.

You know, and I was just I was just running through that. So it could very well be both.

And, you know, I just it's interesting because they go back to creation from before the law was even given. And I would understand that to be that Adam and Eve were married. And just the the language that's used there that that the Lord brought her to the man almost as if we would see in a wedding ceremony.

The father walks the bride down the aisle. And so, again, it wasn't that they were betrothed. They were already married. And it does point back to creation. But then it does go into the law. So it may be either or there.

I don't think I've ever heard that view before that your pastor brought up, but I don't think that need be need be like making either or a deal breaker. It's got to be this or that. But it's it's definitely food to ponder.

Well, let's let's do one thing. Let's look at context, because this is there's one key thing that we have to look at in verse three. And the Pharisees came to him and tested him. So this is something that they were trying to test him with.

Well, why would it be a test? It's only going to be a test because I believe that they knew what the scriptures say about divorce. And they also knew what the culture said about divorce at that time. Divorce.

I mean, you could divorce your wife for burnt toast. You could divorce her for anything. Burnt falafels. Yes. Yeah. OK. The philosophers. But, you know, for any reason, you could you can issue a divorce.

Yes. In a culture where if you divorce a wife and she doesn't remarry. She's got no way of providing for herself. Right. So I understand the context.

Go ahead, Daniel. Oh, yeah. And I'd like to bring up the culture that Jesus lived in. I'm sure, Andrew, as a Jew, you're probably familiar with the houses of Hillel and Shammai, the different schools of thought on basically the interpretation of the law, understanding of the Mishnah and the Talmud, the Palestinian and Babylonian variants of the Talmud.

But the school, the house of Hillel would understand that divorce was permitted for trivial matters such as, you know, messing up dinner, as you as you said. And the house of Shammai was more strict on divorce, only for serious offenses.

And it seems like both of these schools would have to deal with Deuteronomy 24 one. And I think that's what Jesus was addressing that. And I think the disciples were probably brought up under the the ideas of the house of Hillel, the more permissive view of divorce.

And it seems that Jesus would have been more along the lines of the house of Shammai regarding interpreting that verse. And that's why the verse in Deuteronomy, Deuteronomy 24 one seems to be that same exception clause.

So I was wondering if there's any like cultural way of understanding that verse and the exception clause and how Jesus corrected them to that more conservative understanding.

If I may, one thing I noticed about the phrasing of the verse is they came to him and says, is there any reason? Then it says, but Moses commanded. And what I see in that text is Moses allowed, and they're kind of they're definitely putting a twist to it.

They're taking something that was allowed and now they're saying, oh, Moses allowed us to do this. Therefore, now it becomes a command to do this. And it's not for any reason. Clearly, in the Bible, it was impurity, which most often would be promiscuity.

But it's not for any reason. I mean, in the ideal world, you're married and you're married for life and that's it. But unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world. I mean, that's just real fast my slant on it.

But to answer the question asked, Deuteronomy 24, which says when a man takes a wife and marries her, if he then sees no favor in his eyes because he found some indecency in her and he writes her a certificate of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out of the house and she departs out of the house and then she goes and becomes another man's wife and the latter man hates her and writes her a certificate of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out of the house.

Or if the latter man dies, who took her to be his wife, then the former husband who sent her away may not take her again to be a wife after she has been defiled for that is an abomination before the Lord.

And you shall not bring the sin upon the land that the Lord, your God is given you for an inheritance. Now, here's the thing, as we look through that, what is the point he's making? He's not trying to answer the question, what are the exception clauses for divorce?

He's trying to address someone who puts away his wife and then wants to take her back. The idea of the finding no favor and indecency from the study I had done years ago, it seems to indicate the fact that he would basically get into the marriage bed and discover she had already been with somebody.

And so for that reason, he puts her out. But the issue here is if he divorces her and she marries someone else, he's not to marry her again. That's what this is the context of. So this is not necessarily answering a question of, is there an exception clause for divorce?

But the case of someone who did divorce, whether it's sinful or not, he does divorce her. And someone else marries her, and whether that person divorces her or dies, the first husband, the former husband, is not allowed to marry her again.

That's what that one is saying. So let me ask this because I haven't gotten everyone's view. Anyone here believe that divorce is always wrong? There's no exceptions.

I used to have that view and I grew up as a really hyper fundamentalist type, but I've kind of softened on that a little bit.

Hey, don't be don't be ripping on our fundamentalist roots here. OK, so, you know, we may end up all agreeing again on something that this diverse, there's no way that could be. OK, so does everybody, everyone, I'm going to assume there's no one here that believes divorce for any reason is OK.

Right. Well, I would say for any reason, it's kind of broad and I would say no, not for any reason. It has to be a specific case.

OK, well, that's why I was trying to take the two extremes first. So does. Does everyone here, anyone here not agree with being able to be divorced when it comes to sexual immorality and abandonment because of the faith?

OK, so we're all agreeing so far.

So, well, what I want to say with that, too, is, yeah, it's those are terms that would be allowable, you know, if your spouse was to cheat on you and that people would not condemn you if you said I want a divorce.

But it doesn't mean you have to be, because I think someone mentioned earlier, maybe you can work it out with some counseling, with some, you know, making amends. That's very rare. But I have heard of people doing that once in a while where they will work through it and make it work.

I think my position is I think the Christian view is reconciliation is always best and we aren't promised your best life now. And therefore, you know, I think I think it's an American thing that we should all be happy and live this happy life.

But I don't think that that's guaranteed.

So, yes, my view on this, I have been kind of quiet, but I believe that it should be separation, not necessarily divorce under, you know, under such circumstances. But then we'll get into my view on remarriage later.

So. And that's interesting, too, because I've had an idea of when it comes to separation, I know some people feel like you're sitting to separate and I feel like separation can be used for for sake of discipline or for a better term for the hope of reconciliation.

But I've also heard people go counter with, you know, people use separation as a stance to get used to living without the individual, which I can understand it because some people do, you know, in our selflessness and our hearts, you know, we get used to being without that person and just feeling, quote unquote, free.

So I can definitely understand that.

We live in a culture where of no fault divorce. So one person can really want the marriage and the other person can leave. And I get that as the point of, you know, the abandonment. And but I don't know that that you can be divorced and you not want the divorce.

That's kind of the whole point of no fault divorce. And that's the sad thing about our culture. But I don't know that I've. If I were in that situation, I would feel free to act like that relationship never happened.

Yeah, yeah. See, like I had mentioned in my podcast, I spent some time to be a little transparent because this is a subject that we first had. I'm actually in my second marriage. My first marriage ended in divorce.

Well, I left my ex wife. Our marriage was volatile. There was infidelity. So I had plenty of times where I could have left. But I decided to stay. I made the time I was a believer. Well, I was in church.

I was in my in the times I was in a lot of false teaching and stuff like that. So I really didn't understand the commitment of marriage and everything else. My idea of reconciliation or my idea of pushing through was praying and anointing, anointing our home with oil and hoping that God deliver us of our demons, causing our trouble.

So after my divorce back in 2013, that was the same year. The Lord saved me later on in that year. And then I realized how wicked I was as far as leaving, because I had told my ex wife, I was like, I'm leaving because we're not working anything.

I was not working. I'm done going. And I told her this based on our culture that I'll come back if I feel like I miss you. And if I feel like I miss you, I feel if I have this overwhelming feeling that I have to come back, then I'll come back.

And I remember the Lord saved me and I felt horrible about it. I remember crying at night thinking about what I had done. She had already been with someone else. And so she moved fast. And so so it wasn't like I could go back.

But then I called her and apologized to her, asked her to forgive me and everything else. So work that out. But when we had this conversation in my church, we talked about remarriage. And so I got remarried in 2015 to my wife now.

And when we had this subject, I started thinking about, OK, well, am I in sin now? Because, you know, I'm remarried now, you know. And what my pastor told me then and a couple of those was like, well, you weren't saved then.

But we see a lot of things we see in the scriptures, a lot of commands that are given in scripture is sin regardless if you were saved or unsaved, it's sin, you know. And so that that answer didn't really sit right with me, you know, as far as, OK, I wasn't like I wasn't a believer when I was coming to adultery yet.

I'm still a believer of adultery, you know. So anyway, so this is why separation thing is like I have a different view of it now as far as I think it can be used. But like you said, our culture of no fault divorce, it makes it very, very untouchy.

Well, there's no sin that can't be forgiven and washed in the blood. So you don't. Once Christ is taking care of that sin, you don't need to dwell on it and think you're still living in sin.

Oh, yeah. Well, amen. I got I really do believe now by God's grace that that's forgiven, you know, I move forward from that. But still, you know, this this this conversation brings it out, you know. Yeah.

Others who are dealing with the same thing.

And I think this brings up an interesting thing is, OK, so is someone who gets divorced and remarried? And I guess we'll move into the question of can people get remarried? But there are people that treat folks as if if you are divorced and then you remarry, you're forever in sin.

What do you guys what's your view? What would be your view on that? Do you think that someone who remarries?

That would make it an unforgivable sin. And we're told in Scripture that the only unforgivable sin is the rejection of Christ.

Well, I think the thought process would be a lack of repentance because you're staying within the sin. Yeah. I mean, I don't agree with that thought process, but I would say that would be the kind of argument there is that because you've never removed yourself from the sin, there wasn't a true repentance there.