May 13, 2021 Show with Roger Salter on “The Ascension of Christ: A Doctrine of Underestimated Importance to the Church”

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Chris Arnson. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday, on this 13th day of May, 2021, known to all

Christians who follow a liturgical calendar as Ascension Thursday, and we have as our guest today somebody who, if you listen to this program long enough, you know

I love interviewing this brother. He's become one of my favorite guests, and that's hence the reason

I have him on so frequently. His name is Roger Salter, and he is Rector of St.

Matthew's Anglican Church of Birmingham, Alabama. We are going to address the

Ascension of Christ, a doctrine of underestimated importance to the Church, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Roger Salter.

It's a great joy to be with you, Chris, an immense joy, and I love the way that you constructed the topic for today, the

Ascension of Christ, a doctrine of underestimated importance to the Church.

Yes, it's quite providential that I just noticed today that someone on Facebook said, they actually posted it yesterday, if tomorrow were a good

Friday, Facebook would be filled with all kinds of posts regarding the crucifixion of Christ.

If tomorrow was Easter, there would be a ton of messages posted on Facebook reflecting the fact that Christ has risen from the dead, but because it's

Ascension Thursday, there are no posts at all about the Ascension of Christ, and that actually played right into my topic of the

Ascension of Christ being a doctrine of underestimated importance to the Church, and although I do not strictly follow a liturgical calendar,

I am a Reformed Baptist, and we typically don't do that, but I can't speak for every church.

There are congregations that no doubt do that would identify as being Reformed Baptists. I have nothing opposed to following a liturgical calendar, but I can say as one that does not typically refer to a liturgical calendar,

I do see the benefit of it, especially when it comes to a day like today, because it is a doctrine that is not focused upon enough, and the seriousness and importance of it is not stressed enough, and one of the very few sermons

I've ever heard on the Ascension, that the whole sermon was specifically on that doctrine,

I had the honor and privilege of hearing the late Dr. Greg Bonson preach a sermon on the

Ascension of Christ back in the 1990s when I was visiting a church where he was the guest speaker in Brooklyn, New York.

But before we go into that theme, let's hear a little bit about St. Matthew's Anglican Church in Birmingham, Alabama.

Well, St. Matthew's is a church where we adhere to Reformational theology and traditional

Reformational liturgy in contemporary English, and we're a small and independent congregation.

There have been better times in terms of numerical strength, and of course

I miss not taking a service on Ascension Day, because it is in Anglican terms a day of obligation.

Every parish is obligated to hold a service on Ascension Day, as they would be on Easter Day or Trinity Sunday, but the fact that it's a

Thursday, I think it means it's a neglected and very silent day, church -wise, on a most triumphant fact, the fact of Christ's Ascension and Coronation in Heaven, and all that that means in the completion of his salvific work and his empowering of the church.

As far as St. Matthew's goes, I think it's always wise for us to make it clear, because of the stereotype that is based largely on truth, unfortunately, that so large a segment, the dominant percentage of those that would identify as Anglican or Episcopalian in the 21st century, are either on the

Oxford movement, Romish side of theology and practice, or the liberal side, and even further to the left than that, the absolute apostate side.

So we have to make it clear that you are actually an independent Anglican church, and you are thoroughly

Reformed and thoroughly Protestant, and most of all, thoroughly Biblical. We trust so, that's our aspiration under the hand of God, Chris.

You know, we are counter -culture for a start, and in terms of what

Anglicanism is today, in the majority, we're counter -Anglican, as people know it, but we adhere very strongly to our

Reformation heritage, and that is something we treasure immensely, not in any attitude of pride or superiority, but of privilege to know that we still have access to the godly guidance of the men of that era.

And one of the key, or should I say, two of the key areas that would identify you as historic

Anglicans is your adherence to the 39 Articles of Religion, which is a fine confession of faith, drafted by one of my heroes of the faith,

Thomas Cranmer, and also the, I believe it's the 1928 prayer book, is it not?

We use 1662. Oh, okay. Yes, Peter Toon of the

Prayer Book Society here in America, and of course he ministered a lot in England as well, he, with the assistance of others, crafted what is called the

Anglican Prayer Book, which gives us several options, and one of them is the traditional option, the only variation is that it uses contemporary

English, the same structure, the same theology. You're talking about the 1928 prayer book?

No, no, this was one that was introduced back in the 90s, I believe. Oh, okay.

Maybe a little bit later, but it was published by the Prayer Book Society as a way of bringing people into preparation, perhaps, for the two older versions, 1662 and 1928, which is based on 1662, but contains some other elements.

And if anybody wants to find out more about St. Matthews in Birmingham, Alabama, the website is stmanglican .weebly

.com, that's W -E -E, B as in boy, L -Y, dot com, and you can also go to rogersalter .com,

Roger, S -A -L -T -E -R, dot com. Well, as I said in the introductory portion of the program, the

Ascension of Christ is such an important and yet underestimated doctrine in the

Christian Church. Why don't you set up the background today for the biblical account of Christ's Ascension, and what it means to you as not only an

Anglican, but a Christian, and why we must be reminded of this important fact of not only history, but of biblical theology?

Well, Chris, we have, of course, a lectionary which suggests readings for particular occasions.

They're not obligatory, but they are good guidelines, and it means that we cover more of Scripture than if we were simply just to choose our favorite passages.

But the two passages for Ascension Day are Acts 1, 1 -5,

Jesus rising, ascending to heaven outside of Jerusalem with 120 witnesses, you know, beholding the event.

And then also Mark 16, 14 -20, which speaks of the ascended

Christ and his gifting of the Church. So the Ascension of Christ really is the climax of Christ's saving work on earth.

He's been crucified, he's risen again, he's been with his people for 40 days, um, strengthening them, instructing them, proving his divinity and saviorhood and reliability.

And then, of course, on the 40th day after his resurrection, he ascends to heaven.

And so those two accounts are in the New Testament. They are the basis for our thinking, but there are so many other passages that refer to the

Ascension and its effects, because without the Ascension, there wouldn't be a church with its gifts, there wouldn't be a gospel to preach.

It is the culmination and absolute proof of, um, sorry,

I've got a couple of messages in front of me in print, Chris, and I need to draw Maureen's attention to them.

Oh, she's, it's all right. I'm getting what Maureen's doing with somebody else, sorry. Anyway, the

Ascension is a colossal fact for us to ruminate upon and derive a great deal of meaning from, but it's also the basis of everything now in the life of the

Church. The head of our body, the body is the Church. Our head is ascended to heaven and is absolutely sovereign over all things and the great resourcer of his people in witnessing to him.

And so I think of the Ascension as something that discloses to us the majesty and magnitude of Christ's dominion.

He is Lord of all, and that is the Lord who invites us to call upon him, walk with him, uh, petition to him and to gain all of the strength and wisdom and effectiveness that the people of God here on earth need for their task of, um, testifying to the

Lord Jesus Christ and all that he is and all that he has provided. Now, why is it that the

Ascension of Christ, which, uh, is, uh, sometimes called the day upon which it's celebrated, is sometimes called the

Feast of the Ascension of Jesus Christ or merely Ascension Day or even a

Holy Thursday. Uh, why is it called, why is it held on a Thursday on a liturgical calendar?

Exactly 40 days after the resurrection. So it's the celebration of his 40th day with his people and then his, uh, entrance to his glory, uh, in the presence of the father.

So it's a significant day in terms of the calendar, if I can put it that way, but even more significant for theology and the life, the spiritual life of his people and the outreach of his body, the church.

It's that day when we know, uh, that all is complete with his ministry on earth in his physical appearance among us.

And that all is now beginning with Pentecost on the way when Christ resources, his church distributes his gift and empowers his people to loyal and loyally and, and boldly proclaim the gospel concerning him.

So it's a significant transition from his physical presence with his people to his spiritual presence, uh, distributed everywhere in the universe, of course, but in the world and among all his people, he, as he said to Mary, don't touch me.

I have to ascend. And in order to bless everybody, I need to be ascended so that I am, if I can put it this way and not that it ever ceased, but so that he is no longer limited to a physical space or appearance.

He is the spirit who is invisible and omnipresent.

You know, uh, I'm curious, uh, as to what is different about, uh, the ascension of Christ other than who he was and is being the

God man, uh, is there, is there anything different about the ascension of Christ and the mysterious account of Enoch in the old

Testament? Uh, who, uh, walked with God and he was no more for God took him in Genesis.

Uh, and, and Christians traditionally have interpreted that as Enoch entering into heaven alive physically without having died.

Yes. And the same thing with Elijah. Yes, yes. Um, but of course with those men, uh, they were uplifted and raised by God.

Jesus ascended in his own power and strength to heaven because he is God. And of course when you say raised, you don't mean raised from the dead because they didn't die.

Uh, they were lifted up, uh. Uplifted, yes. Carried to heaven. And, um, that was something that God did for them.

But the Lord Jesus as divine ascended in his own strength and power to heaven without assistance.

So he was the, he was the only, uh, person who has ever been, who had ever ascended into heaven.

Yes, because it's his right to be there. And, uh, he is assuming, uh, all his rights initially physically to the witnesses looking up because it becomes to us an acknowledgement, a proven acknowledgement of his deity and sovereignty and authority.

So we have the physical witness in order to confirm to us who know him by faith that he is certified as God and as the son and as ruler of all that is.

Um, and then of course the cloud, which is symbolic of the presence of God enclosed him to show that he moved from earth to that status of divinity and oneness with the father.

Now, what, uh, would be unique in a Bible believing conservative and reformed

Anglican tradition as to the observation of Ascension Thursday or, uh,

Holy Thursday or Ascension Day or the Feast of the Ascension of Jesus Christ, uh, what would be unique on how a service when it is conducted, uh, would be conducted?

Well, I think we are sounding and loading his triumph. You know, this is the very pinnacle of what he has achieved in his doing and, and rising above all of the facts of his humiliation and lowliness on earth.

He is now assuming again, um, not that he ever, uh, shed his heavenly glory, but from the point of view of the incarnation, that was a humiliation, a lowliness that could be observed visually, uh, by people on earth.

Now people on earth see him relinquish that incarnational ministry and going to heaven to exercise an extensive ministry everywhere as the son of God and as the prince of glory.

So it's a recognition of his loftiness, his, um, exaltedness, and we see it as it were as his enthronement, his entitlement to rule and govern as the son, one with the father and the spirit.

We have, uh, a listener already. Uh, I don't know if you want me to wait to take the listener's question or if you had something else to say there, it sounds like you were starting to say, say something.

Yes, I think it's an emphasis to us in order for us to grasp more clearly, uh, that Christ is ascendant, that he is lofty, that he is regnant, and that he has taken on his right to absolute supremacy.

And we derive that from, uh, you know, the prophetic passage in Daniel about the son of man, the kingdom of the son of man.

Could I read those verses? Oh, definitely, definitely. Okay, uh, this is from, uh,

Daniel chapter 7, verses 13 and 14, Chris. And Daniel says, in my vision at night,

I looked and there before me was one like a son of man coming with the clouds of heaven.

He approached the ancient of days and was led into his presence. This is what

I think is a pre -New Testament description of Christ's ascension.

He was given authority, glory, and sovereign power. All peoples, nations, and men of every tongue worshipped him.

His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

So we're fulfilling, um, a gospel prophecy from Daniel, and we're seeing that Christ is elevated to that absolute supremacy that is his entitlement, his inherent right, uh, as, first of all, as God, and then as the son of man, because it is his reward in his human obedience.

And so, uh, I see that, uh, what we are given on ascension day is, uh, a larger view of the

Lord Jesus Christ, which enables us to strengthen our worship, our admiration, and the obedience due to him.

He really is sovereign. And, um, while so many of the doctrines of our faith have to be considered intellectually and mentally based on the historical life and ministry of Jesus, nonetheless, this is something so important that it's made vividly accessible to us through the senses of those 120 people who witnessed

Christ's, um, I keep wanting to say raising, but not to confuse it with the resurrection, his elevation to his true status.

Well, we have, we have that listener, uh, Bobby in Hartsdale, New York, who says,

I know that Christ is still today and forever will be the

God -man, that ever since his being conceived in the womb of Mary by the

Holy Spirit, he became the God -man, although he eternally existed as God before that.

How is his ascension body different from his resurrection body, if at all?

I know that the ascension body is without question incorruptible, since it will remain in heaven for all eternity, but is it any different from what we know from the teaching of Scripture, from the body that came forth from the tomb?

He was certainly raised physically, and I think the body was endowed with perhaps new features and new powers that are, um, as we say, incorruptible.

Um, sometimes the disciples seem, if my memory is correct, Chris, to not entirely have recognized him fully, maybe through that was lack of expectation, but I think his body is glorified and more excellent than his physical appearance.

I would need to really think carefully about this. I've just always accepted the fact that when he rose again, it was the continuity of Jesus' life among us, but a more splendid manifestation, and, you know, one worthy and appropriate for incorporation into heavenly glory, and, um, you know, the presence of the

Father. So it's the kind of body we too will have. Um, it is, uh, still identifiable, still our own body, but reconstituted in a way that is far superior to the physical expression of our personality.

So, uh, I would have to say there's a certain amount of, if I can use the term, agnosticism about the heavenly body.

Uh, we won't really know until we receive that and have passed through the veil of death.

I think there's room for, uh, modest speculation about it if we can pick up clues from Scripture, you know, the ability to pass through solids, uh, various things like that.

Not having the necessity of sustenance, food, and liquid.

It will be a body that has, um, lost certain needs and gained certain properties and certain gifts, but it is still a continuation of our personality, redeemed, glorified, and Christ -like.

And I love the expression from, um, John Donne, the poet, when he speaks about our ascent into heaven, and he's taking poetic license here, but I think we can see what he means.

We should be Christ -like. We won't be Christ. We won't be as glorious as him in any way, but he says the angels will see the glorified saints and their beauty, which will exceed the beauty and splendor of the angels, but they will say,

I can't tell them apart from Christ. They are his people. They are in his likeness.

We shall share his splendor, which again brings to us the reality of the ascension because it's participative.

In due course, we shall share in it personally. Now, we do potentially, prospectively, but in our hearts and minds.

Did I read the collect after asking permission to read the prayer for the day, Chris? Uh, you may never have to ask me for permission.

Just go right ahead. Okay. Well, the special prayer for the day, in case

I didn't read it, is as follows. Almighty God, as we believe your only begotten son, our

Lord Jesus Christ, to have ascended into the heavens, so may we also in heart and mind hither ascend and with him continually dwell.

There are the two aspects of the ascension for us. In heart and mind, as Paul says, you know, in Ephesians chapter two, we're with Christ in the heavenlies now, in our union with him, in our knowledge of him, but our persons are still on earth, but we continually dwell with him at the resurrection, at our own entrance to heaven.

So there are those two aspects, what the ascension means concerning Jesus and what the ascension means concerning ourselves.

Well, we have to go to our first station break right now. And if anybody would like to join us, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

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We'll be right back with Roger Salter with more on the ascension after these messages from our sponsors.

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Our guest today is Roger Salter, the Rector of St. Matthew's Anglican Church in Birmingham, Alabama, which is a confessionally reformed

Anglican church, fully biblical, fully Protestant. And we are addressing the ascension of Christ.

And today being Ascension Thursday, I thought it was very appropriate that our guest chose this subject, and especially because it is a doctrine of underestimated importance to the church.

And our email address, if you have a question, is chrisarnzen at gmail .com. C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. And we have

Bruce from Hoover, Alabama, and he says,

Dear Chris and Roger, Thank you for this tremendous ministry and today for this vital discussion on modern -day lack of worship around Christ's Ascension.

My question is, given the current lack of acknowledgement, celebration, and ignorance of the

Ascension and the reformed Protestant church, a fact that must certainly be celebrated and encouraged by Satan and his minions, why do you think reformed denominations and congregations ignore the opportunity to sound and laud the

Ascension of Christ? It's shocking, isn't it? Why would we do this?

Top three to five reasons so to keep it brief. Thank you.

Keep charging, both of you. Interesting question, and I think some of the assumptions here may be extreme.

I don't know if you would agree with me, but the reformed community at large, they certainly, if they are truly reformed, not by name only, like some of the liberal denominations that still have that in their name, but truly reformed

Christians, reformed Baptists, and Presbyterians who do not hold to a liturgical calendar still view the

Ascension as a vital truth of the Scriptures. So I'm not really sure if he is equating the fact that there are many

Christians that do not follow the liturgical calendar on this, that they're doing a great disservice.

But if you could, perhaps you understood more clearly what

Bruce and Hoover Alabama was speaking about. Well, first of all,

Chris, I'm going to come clean about Bruce. I know Bruce very well, and I love him very much, and I really value his support for yourself and myself.

I don't like flattering people, but I regard Bruce as a very sound and a very helpful

Christian man, and he's a tremendous source of strength and encouragement. I gathered that from remembering his many questions that he has submitted during this program.

Yes, yes, absolutely. And now that COVID is sort of abating a bit, we can take up that arrangement we made for a meal together sometime, because I have such a high regard for Bruce.

I don't remember his name well, because I'm Australian, and practically every Australian is called

Bruce. I didn't know that. It's a great joke,

Chris. Anyway... To me, by the way, I don't know if you'll take this as an insult, but you sound more

British than Australian or Tasmanian, and I don't know if other

Australians and Tasmanians have told you that, but I am not an expert on accents, but from my

American ear, you sound more British than me. Well, we had a lot of British people come out after the war to settle in Australia, and especially in Tasmania, because they thought it would be very similar in culture, and, you know, just the mores and customs we observe, some of which are older than those retained in England.

But anyway, I think I would want to say that the fear of Protestants after their initial departure from the

Roman Church, which I distinguish from the Catholic Church, I think there is

Catholic truth and practice and members of the Church of God who are not fully persuaded or not fully in alignment with the

Roman inventions and superstitions that were right at the time of the

Reformation. You know, it was a long time before Reformed people really began to produce thinking about the

Lord's Supper that wasn't reactionary, but positive, and they were correcting errors.

And I think part of the fear of a church calendar and liturgy came from the old association with the papal church.

The Puritans would have been among that group that were opposed to a liturgical...

Absolutely. In fact, there are churches today that I'm aware of in the

Reformed communion who do not even celebrate

Christmas or Easter. That's true. Because they believe that we should be celebrating the birth, the sinless life, the death, burial, and resurrection, and ascension of Christ every time we meet on the

Lord's Day with a particular focus on his resurrection on the

Lord's Day. But there are differences of opinion, which is why

I gave that caveat before handing Bruce's question over to you, because I respect the right of Christians not to hold to a liturgical calendar unless they are denying the truths behind the calendar, and I think it is very dangerous to add something, a mandate to Scripture, that doesn't exist there.

Right. Right. Well, the Anglican liturgy is perhaps...I can't assess the percentage, but it's largely

Scripture used for the purpose of public worship, and then the remainder of it are sound expressions of faith from credible

Christian sources. So I can't think of anything that would in any way counter the idea of a liturgy.

I think the Old Testament church certainly had a liturgy and statements of faith and prayers, and these began to originate in the early church.

I think they're just guidelines for the church and also to establish a certain unity among the people of God.

But even non -liturgical churches, and I've observed this and been to many,

Chris, if you go to them over a period of time, you discover that there's an unwritten liturgy.

And the one thing about a liturgy is that it does keep the people in the pews busy, because there are constant responses they have to make.

So I don't think any church is without a liturgy. Some are simply printed, and others are only vocalized, but they're there.

And you know, I used to find this when I went to prayer groups, non -Anglican prayer groups, when I was in England.

And I don't mean to be nasty about this, it's just an observation, that I went to a church that had no liturgy whatsoever, and when

I went to the Wednesday evening prayer meetings, after two weeks, I knew exactly what each person saying the prayer was going to say, week after week.

And I thought, well, why not have a printed one that is thought about and read with reverence and clarity and emphasis.

You know, Cranmer always made provision for extemporary prayer as part of the services, but they had to be suited to public worship.

They shouldn't just be private and express a sentimentality or personal needs that are not relevant to a

Christian gathering. So I think that a liturgy is a very helpful means of grace.

It's not obligatory, but I find it extremely helpful. And it expands my mind, because when

I come to God with my limited brain, I can't encompass everything necessary in my prayer.

I don't have that skill. I don't have that concentration. But if I start with a liturgy,

I see, oh, there is so much more I need to be aware of. And a good liturgy is also theologically instructive.

Sorry, I didn't mean to go on like that, Chris. No, that's quite all right. But the truth that our listener

Bruce brought up is built into our title today.

That the ascension seems to be, the truth of it seems to be, or should

I say the importance of the truth of the ascension, seems to be underestimated. It is not a subject that is perhaps focused on often enough.

It is expressed continually, I think, but never emphatically, never looked at as,

I'll the degree of attention and concentration that it merits. Because it yields so much blessing and benefit to us,

Chris. And I would say the fact of the event of the ascension endorses all the claims that he makes for himself and that are made concerning him.

But for ourselves, and I think this is something, can I have a little bit of liberty here with scripture?

Of course. I've divided some thoughts that I penned just before lunch.

And the ascension of Christ and its meaning concerning him, Christ, it so elevates him that we move into that spirit of adoration and affection and trust and submission because of his superiority, authority and power and the expression of his compassion and goodness through that impotent power that can make his purpose work and achieve its objective.

But there's also a meaning for ourselves because the ascension is participative.

You know, our colleague that I read says that we will dwell with him in heart and mind.

We're already in the heavenlies. We're already anticipating our ascension to glory before we die or we're taken.

That is where our citizenship is in our union with Christ. That is where our dwelling is.

We are citizens of heaven and trade strangers on earth. And I wanted to compare two passages from Ephesians, and they're almost, in my

Bible, either side of the column. Can I just read them quickly? Of course.

Okay. Well, Ephesians 1, chapter 18, verse 18 and following,

Paul says about Christ, and this is such an encouragement to us in our intercessions,

I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints and his incomparably great power for us who believe.

That power is like the working of his mighty strength which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms.

Far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age, but also in the age to come.

And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body.

The fullness of him who fills everything in every way. There's our hope.

There's our certainty. And you read that passage and you think, I must adore this glorious Christ.

I must. His excellence is so beautiful and so overwhelming and so clear in Scripture.

But in union with Christ, we are destined to be part of his ascendant status.

And God raised us up, says Paul in chapter 2, beginning at verse 6. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in heavenly realms in Christ Jesus.

We're next to the throne. What a privilege we have. What a security we have.

And what access to God in our hopes and in our faith and in our prayer in heavenly realms in Christ Jesus in order that in coming ages, he might show the incomparable riches of his grace expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus, our intimacy with Christ, our access to him.

For it is by grace that you have been saved through faith. And this not from yourselves.

It is the gift of God. And so he goes on. But we are already in the heavenlies, prospectively and spiritually, in mind and in heart.

And we shall be there in all reality in our personhood when Christ translates us to his glory.

But it's just so overwhelming to me that we don't concentrate on this particular fact of the ascension as it affects

Christ and as it affects us. And I think it would make a stronger church, Chris, because we would see that we are being moved and directed and resourced by the ultimate power, the omnipotent

Son of God, and all our weakness and all our fears can be dealt with by the fact that he will achieve his intended end ultimately.

And we have to go to our midway break right now. Please be patient with us, folks, because the midway break is a bit longer than the other breaks in the show, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the show so that they can comply with FCC regulations to localize the show to Lake City, Florida, with their own public service announcements.

And we air our own globally heard commercials while they do that simultaneously.

So please write down questions for Roger Salter and also write down the information provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently and successfully respond to them, because they are absolutely essential to the existence of this program.

So don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors. Hi, I'm Phil Johnson, host and executive director of Grace to You, the media ministry of John MacArthur.

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This is Phil Johnson reminding you that Christ is supreme over all. When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

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This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our

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Hi, this is John Sampson, Pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona. Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the

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I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide. This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised

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Like Satan in the garden, woke hermeneutics undermines the very authority of the Word of God. I don't say that lightly.

Also hear from Tommy Nelson, Charles Stolfus, and Rodney Brown, confronting the lies being impressed upon the culture today, threatening even to divide the church, and answering with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The Wokeness in the Gospel Conference coming to Denton Bible Church, June 11th and 12th. Register online at wokenessandgospel .org.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, Give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted. He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

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I really do, Chris. I love the biography of Michael Vane, and also of Top Lady, and, you know,

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I can't remember what it's called, Chris. But Archbishop Usher's gathering his collection of Christian doctrine.

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So that's solid -ground -books .com. Before I return to Roger Salter, I just have a few very important announcements to make.

You've been hearing the commercials for the G3 conference where I am going to be manning an exhibitor's booth.

You've been hearing on some of the ads Vody Baucom's name mentioned. He has been at least temporarily removed from the roster because of his health problems.

As many of you may know or may not know, he, Vody Baucom, suffered from quadruple bypass surgery or suffered from a health setback that required quadruple bypass surgery.

So please pray for Vody. I understand that he is recovering and doing well, but he is not out of the woods, and he has a long road of recovery ahead of him.

So please keep him in your prayers. If anybody wants to join me at the G3 conference, and I hope you do, where I'll be manning an exhibitor's booth, that's the 30th of September through the 2nd of October, go to g3conference .com,

g3conference .com. And I'll also be next month, God willing, at the

Wokeness and the Gospel conference. That's going to be

June 11th and 12th at the

Denton Bible Church. And I am really looking forward to that. My brother,

John, my oldest brother, lives about 20 minutes away from the venue. So I am hoping to have a lot of time visiting with him.

He is not a believer, and he has very serious health problems, including cancer and critical stage emphysema, and an aneurysm that is inoperable.

So please pray for him, for healing by the hand of our great physician,

Jesus Christ, and also that the doctors guide, or should I say that the

Lord guides the doctors, in everything that they do in care for my brother.

But most importantly, please pray that he receives a new heart from God himself and becomes a born -again believer in Christ, and that I have that clear assurance that he is truly a new creation in Christ.

Please pray about my conversing with him in Texas, and that the Lord guides me as well in regard to what to say, what not to say, et cetera.

So please pray for me. And if you want to join me at the Wokeness in the Gospel conference, go to Wokenessandgospel .org,

Wokenessandgospel .org for all the details. That's June 11th and the 12th at the

Denton Bible Church in Denton, Texas. Also, folks, if you love this show, and you do not want it to disappear from the airwaves, please go to ironsharpensionradio .com,

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And, last but not least, if you are not a member of a solid Bible -believing church, like St.

Matthew's Anglican Church in Birmingham, Alabama, uh, if you are not a member of such a church that is biblically faithful, theologically sound, no matter where on the planet

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So, send me an email if that is you, that you live in an area and you're not sure where you can find a biblically faithful church.

Send it to, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com,

but I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send a question to our guest today,

Roger Salter, on the ascension of Christ, and as we have been saying, uh, this, uh, doctrine of the ascension of Christ is a doctrine of underestimated importance to the church, and that is a shame.

Uh, so send us an email if you have a question about that to chrisarnson at gmail .com, c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Uh, so, um, let us return, uh, where we left off,

Roger. As far as this precious doctrine of, uh, really, uh, to top off, as it were, the sign, seal, and approval of Christ's victory over death in his resurrection, uh, the ascension is, uh, a, a, uh, an additional, if you will, you can correct me if I'm wrong, uh, sign of Christ's victory and his kingship, uh, as he is enthroned at the right hand of the

Father in glory, uh, after this event known as the ascension. Anything to add to that?

I would love to add to it, Chris, but could I please just make a little announcement as well? You referred to people making contact for suitable churches, and during our closure at the height of the, uh, infection here in Alabama, a lady called

Angie left a message to see if we were meeting, and we lost her contact number.

And, uh, I just want Angie to know if she's still listening, I apologize. We'd love to hear from you again,

Angie. We have resumed our worship at 9 .30 on a Sunday morning. Thanks for re -alerting me to that message that I ought to send,

Chris. And, uh, going back to the immensely important topic of the ascension, which breaks down into two portions, the ascension of Christ as it affects him, um, and then the ascension as it affects us.

And, you know, it really does underscore and establish, um, indisputably his supremacy, and it endorses all the claims made concerning him.

It gives us that rock -solid ground of confidence in him and obedience to him.

But the other thing that I think is so important for the church is that we need gifted people in all sorts of areas to forward the knowledge of the gospel and to promote the knowledge of Christ.

And every Christian has some gift or talent with which God has endowed them. And this idea of the whole membership, uh, testifying to Christ in various ways that are appropriate according to the gifting of Christ, if there were no ascension or no active sovereign, um, activity of God and God the

Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, the church would be utterly weakened and impotent.

And so I'm going back to a small passage in Ephesians chapter 4, verses 7 and 8.

Christ has ascended and sovereign and completing his ministry on earth from heaven.

Paul says, to each one of us, grace has been given as Christ apportioned it.

That is, every gift that every believer, uh, has is not something that originates in them, it is a specific and personal gift from the

Lord Jesus Christ. He distributes all the gifts. He apportions them.

He is the originator of those wonderful gifts that people exercise. And he says, this is why it says, going back to a quotation from Psalm 68, 18, when he ascended on high, he led captives in his train, that is us captive to the devil, to sin, to alienation from God and gave gifts to men.

So that every gift that is possessed and exercised by any believer is a personal donation from the ascended and sovereign

Christ. He has selected them out for that specific talent.

And so our gifts are not something that originate from ourselves and something we want to exercise for gratification or self -satisfaction.

They are gifts that Jesus personally has handed to us with the responsibility to exercise them wisely and for his glory.

So I just think that that sort of sums up the sovereignty and supremacy of Christ and his office as ruler of the universe.

And then we as his chosen and adopted subjects fulfill the role of witnessing to him in such a broad way, extending the knowledge of his kingdom, being instrumental in drawing people in.

All of that is Christ working personally from us through his actual indwelling of us.

So we are ascended in that sense. We are in touch with the sovereign of heaven and soon we shall be living with him everlastingly.

But here on earth, we have a privilege and a perspective. The privilege is access to the king of kings.

Prayer brings us to the throne and our petitions are heard. And if they are kingdom petitions and they will be edited by the

Holy Spirit, they will be answered. And we have a solid security.

I am reading lately the teaching of Bishop Ryle on the perseverance of the saints and how

Spurgeon would say, if that were not guaranteed to the elect, we would have no gospel.

And it is the risen Christ directing all things and guiding our lives and accompanying us continue.

I will never leave you, he says in the great commission in Matthew 28. I will never leave you.

This Christ who is ascendant and sovereign is with us permanently, always.

He is the one who gives us that certainty in spite of our weakness and all that we encounter in life, that security of persevering to the end by his preservation.

And so because he is ascendant and sovereign and governing all things from heaven, it means that we are the heirs of benefits, endless benefits of his sovereignty and power.

It is just an astonishing thing that is a tremendous boost to our faith because the ascension of Christ is the pledge of abundant and endless grace.

I wish I believed these things so fully, Chris, you know, in prayer, in life, in thought, in attitude.

But there it is. The fact is there. And it's given to us as a marvelous means of grace and encouragement by God himself.

We have an anonymous listener who says, I have a couple of friends who have told me they believe that when

Christ ascended, he shed his physical body because flesh cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Isn't this a heresy? Are the flesh entering heaven? No, that that this person is saying that that he or she has friends who say that Christ shed his body when he ascended.

Yes, yes. There are some doctrines you accept from scripture,

Chris, and you don't always have the time or the pressure to consider them in detail. My belief is it is the same

Jesus who was on earth with a transformed and resurrection body.

And we are raised. We are given our personality remains the same, but it is redeemed and renewed.

And our body is us in a body with specifically heavenly features and tendencies and an endurance because we are united to Christ that can never corrode or or die or contract any illness or suffer any pain or need any sustenance.

It is us in the body. We ourselves. And all I've believed, and I could be wrong, is that it is our body transformed.

It's raised again. And it's renewed. And it has a new capacity.

It is an improved that's a silly word I'm using. But an improved body.

The us, the person we are present in heaven in this new guise of beauty and excellence and holiness.

But it's definitely the same person. And Christ is the same person who walked this earth.

Amen. And it is a heresy to say that he no longer has a body. He forever will be the

God man, correct? He's always embodied, yes. He's always embodied.

And he had exceptional powers on earth. You know how on a couple of occasions when he was in danger, he hid himself.

He disappeared. I believe that that was not just running off to some secret place and hiding.

I believe his body had the capacity to do that. To become invisible, to transfer itself in a non -physical but spiritual way.

But it's the same Lord Jesus. Absolutely. Amen.

Well, thank you, Anonymous. And if you are a first -time questioner, let us know because you will receive a free

New American Standard Bible, compliments of the publishers of the NASB, and compliments of the

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com. We'll actually be shipping that Bible out to you if you are a first -time questioner.

So, through email, privately, obviously, give us your full name and your full mailing address so that we can have the

Bible shipped out to you. Incident. Sorry, Chris. No, go ahead.

Thomas was brought to faith by touching the body of the Lord, the risen body, by feeling the imprints of the nails and seeing the body and proving its reality and existence by the sense of touch.

So, you know, I don't think we can over -spiritualize these factors. Yes, and the questioner was saying that her friends, or his friends, since this person is anonymous,

I don't know if it's a man or a woman, but the email was saying that the friend said, at the ascension, that Christ shed his body.

So these people would acknowledge the physical bodily resurrection of Christ.

They would deny that he carried that body with him into heaven. Well, the angel said, you saw him go up and he will return in the same way.

And the other thing is, Chris, so often the word flesh does not mean the physical body, but human nature.

And I think that's what John is saying. Flesh cannot enter the kingdom of heaven or see it. It's saying that the whole of our humanity in its mental structure, as well as, you know, not necessarily thinking specifically of our physical being, but the fact that in our mind, in our heart, in our spirit, we cannot, by any exertion or attitude or virtue, enter the kingdom of heaven.

It's saying that human nature is a dead loss when it comes to our restoration and salvation.

We have Joseph in South Central Pennsylvania who asks,

I heard a couple of Reformed Baptists having a disagreement. One was saying that the ascension is an essential element of a gospel presentation that is faithful to the scriptures.

The other Reformed Baptist was disagreeing, saying that as true and as important as the ascension is, it is not actually an element of the gospel itself, which would be the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

Where does your guest stand on this? Should the ascension be brought in always when a discussion of the gospel is being had?

The essential element in the gospel in the first place is our justification before God.

His own, the monogistic work that God performs is regeneration. That's his alone, and that gift of what is called first grace, that initial grace that brings us to God, is a divine work exclusively.

Then through the faith that we are given, we are justified before God. That faith in Christ alone and the gift of his righteousness are credited to us.

I believe if you're preaching the gospel fully and not just on the point of warning people of their danger and needing to be reconciled to God, I would say it has to be included very much because what

I've been reading from Ephesians, just a moment back, Ephesians 4, 7, and 8, to each of us grace has been given as apportioned with Christ apportioned it, and then he quotes from the psalm, when he ascended on high, he led captives in his train.

How did he have those captives in his train? Through his life, ministry, his death, and resurrection.

He purchased the elect, and they were captives, and he set them free, and he's given gifts to them, gifts of holiness, gifts of grace, gifts of ministry.

This train of captives would not be there without the cross. That is one of the effects and accomplishments of Jesus' cross.

His death and resurrection is the culmination of his saviorhood in the ascension, which brings everything out into the open as an absolute certainty.

God's saving purpose will be fulfilled, and so I think it's an essential element in our presentation of Christ.

Well, thank you, Joseph, and we have another listener,

Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania, and she asks that you explain what the significance of the

Mount of Transfiguration is. When he was on the

Mount of Transfiguration, he was revealing his glory, and he was revealing himself to his closest disciples to convince them of his majesty, of his power, of his centrality to the purpose of God, the fulfillment of the prophetic ministry of Moses and Elijah and the

Old Testament saints. And so when he ascends to heaven, he leaves one of his favorite points on earth that is associated with the warmth of his affection for his people.

So he makes his ascension from the Mount of Olives, which is so significant in his ministry, and as good as any place we can think of for his departure point to glory.

We have to get our final break right now. It's going to be a lot briefer than the other breaks. So if you do have a question, we ask of you to please submit it quickly, because we are rapidly running out of time.

Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages. Hello, dear ones.

My name is Justin Peters, and my friend Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I are frequently blessed to share great times of fellowship with one another at conferences all over the

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Register online at wokenessandgospel .org. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen.

And first of all, I want to thank Tom in West Islip, Long Island, New York, who said that he had been praying ever since my announcement for my brother

John, my oldest brother John, whom I will be visiting when I attend the

Wokeness in the Gospel Conference in Denton, Texas, and will be praying for me as I seek to minister to my brother.

So thanks, Tom. And we have a question from Mike in Monroe, New York.

A bit off the topic, but it involves something we mentioned earlier. The greatest

Anglican writer, in my opinion, was Augustus Toplady. What is your guest's opinion on this mighty man of God?

I think he is so excellent that I cannot appreciate him enough, Chris. My only complaint is that the volume of his complete works that I have, the print is so small, and I find it uncomfortable to always be using a magnifying glass.

But I've read principally the two essays he wrote about the Church of England.

I don't have the titles of them in front of me, but there's one about the

Church of England not being in any way supportive of Arminianism.

It's almost like he's saying the Church of England is clear of Arminianism, and the other one is the historic proof of the

Calvinism of the Church of England. That's a much longer and detailed work. Both of these essays or writings are included in this huge volume.

I think it's published by Sprinkle, I could be wrong, from memory. But his translation of, oh gosh,

I'm trying to think. Zankeus, Jerome Zankeus, the Italian reformer.

He is such a clear reformational man, and I twin him together with Whitefield.

Whitefield was the herald of the gospel in the great awakening of the 18th century, and I think, oh, who are we talking about?

Augustus Toplady. Yeah, Augustus. This is bad, Chris. Augustus Toplady, I think, was the apostle of biblical and reform doctrine.

I think he was superb. That's why I so love Tom Isham's book about him, because it fills a gap, and it's so necessary.

This is a man who needs to be focused on by the Reformed Church in all its expressions,

Baptist, Presbyterian, Anglican. He was a great champion of the faith in his day.

Died quite early, but here again, I'm struggling with my memory,

Chris. The great Baptist theologian of the day. John Gill?

John Gill. John Gill's preaching place, his church, and Toplady's were relatively close to each other, and they both regarded each other as their favorite preacher.

So I see this as the basis of a very warm ecumenical relationship between Reformed Baptists and Anglicans.

As Sturgeon said, there was only one half a sentence of the,

I think it's the Westminster Confession, that created any difference between Reformed Baptists and Reformed Anglicans.

That's a pretty small amount. And the other thing is that the wonderful Usher, James Usher, he constructed and authored, with the help of other people in Ireland, the

Irish Articles, which are more full than the 39 Articles. He was overruled by Archbishop Lord at Canterbury, about whom

I have very little to say. That is, you know, that is...

Complimentary. Yes, thank you. Thank you, Chris. And his

Irish Articles were very much the basis, the basic text of the

Westminster Confession of Faith. So Usher is another one of those men that needs to have the focus trained upon them.

From the whole of the Reformed Church, these men were God's gift to the world. Top lady and Usher.

And I think they bring that nobility and orthodoxy and gospel power, particularly to the

Anglican witness. But it's shared by all those who love the doctrines of grace.

We have Bebe in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, who wants to know, is there a book written on the

Ascension that you can recommend to help me better understand and appreciate this doctrine?

I can't, off the top of my mind, Chris, think of a specific title. I can think of one.

I'm sure you're familiar with Derek Thomas? Yes, yes. Derek Thomas is the pastor of the

First Presbyterian Church there in South Carolina.

I'm trying to remember the, Columbia, South Carolina. Oh, right, okay. Derek Thomas wrote a book somewhere in the neighborhood of 150 pages long,

Taken Up to Heaven, the Ascension of Christ. Yes.

And you could get that from Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, CVBBS .com. If they don't have it in stock, they can order it.

It is available, it is published by Evangelical Press, and CVBBS .com

carries Evangelical Press titles. So, that's Taken Up to Heaven by Derek Thomas.

I'm sorry, go ahead. Yes, yes, I think there are other titles very similar to that that don't necessarily refer to the teaching as on the ascension, but are substantial, you know, presentations of that particular fact and all that it means, what it means pertaining to Christ and what it means pertaining to us.

But just before we went on air, Chris, I went to my copy of Bishop Hall's Contemplations, which is published by Tentmaker.

I don't know where they're based, but I'm sure that Solid Ground would stock it if people wanted to check.

And I copied just a few lines from Bishop Joseph Hall's treatment of the ascension, and it's just a quote that I scribbled out this quote, so I've got to do with my rather untidy handwriting.

Could I sort of close my contribution with this? Yes, of course. Okay, this is his long paean of praise to the ascended

Christ. Never was the sun itself gazed on with so much intensivity or intensiveness.

He uses the word intention, but I think that's now out of date. With what long looks, with what astonished acclamation did these astonished beholders follow thee, their ascending savior, as if they would have looked through the cloud and into that heaven that hid thee from them?

But oh, what tongue of the highest archangel of heaven can express the welcome of thee, the king of glory, into those blessed regions of immortality?

And I thought that summed up very succinctly the wonder, the beauty, the majesty of Christ's returning to his glory after his lowliness on our behalf, on our planet.

Beautiful. Amen. And by the way, Solid Ground Christian Books has taken over Tentmaker Publications.

Haven't they? Yes, because Phil Roberts is retiring from the publishing ministry,

I understand, and has handed the mantle over to Mike Gadosh and Solid Ground Christian Books.

So all of Tentmaker's publications can be found at solid -ground -books .com.

Well, do you have a minute where you could summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners regarding the ascension?

Yes. I think it won't be adequate, but simply to say if we want to consider the worthiness of Christ, that will move our heart to the ultimate adoration and trust and gratitude that we could possibly produce here as the mortal creatures that we are.

I would say, ponder deeply the reality of the ascension.

It is the crowning episode of Christ's ministry of salvation. And there, from the throne of heaven,

He meets out to us all His blessings, His encouragements, the fulfillment of His promises, and all the strength and resources that we so desperately need in our weakness and weariness in our earthly pilgrimage.

We are close to God by His invitation, and He is so close to us, we can touch the throne through prayer, because our

Savior is there, and He's our elder brother, so He cares. Amen.

Well, I want to thank you so much, Roger, for doing such a superb job, as you always do. I look forward to having you back on the program, and I want to remind our listeners that they can find out more about the

St. Matthew's Anglican Church in Birmingham, Alabama by going to the church website, which is stmanglican .weebly

.com, S -T -M, standing for St. Matthew's, anglican .weebly,

W -E -E, B as in boy, L -Y, .com. And you can also go to rogersalter .com,

Roger, S -A -L -T -E -R, .com. I want to thank everybody for listening today, and especially those who took the time to write in questions, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater