How Do I Get Started with Bitcoin?

Andrew Rappaport's Rapp Report

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See website for details. So in other words, Jim, you don't have like, if I was to send you a check from my bank, they're going to hold that check, they're going to put the money, say the money's there, but it's really not there because they're going to hold it for five days to make sure it clears.

01:12

You're saying with Bitcoin, it's immediate. Wrap Report with your host,

01:18

Andrew Rapoport, where we provide biblical interpretation and application. This is a ministry of striving for eternity in the

01:25

Christian podcast community. For more content or to request a speaker for your church, go to strivingforeternity .org.

01:32

Well, welcome to another edition of the Wrap Report. I'm your host, Andrew Rapoport. I am joined with my, well, temporary sidekick, at least.

01:40

Jim Osman, how are you, sir? At least one more week. So we're back with some friends from other podcasters from the

01:50

Christian podcast community, the guys from Bitcoin and the Bible. If you have not listened to last week's episode,

01:58

I want to encourage you to go back, download that, and then listen to that one first, because a lot of what we're going to say in this episode is going to build off of what was discussed in the previous episode.

02:10

Maybe you tuned in because you're like, Bitcoin, there's lots of talk of Bitcoin, cryptocurrency, things like that, and you're trying to understand it.

02:18

Well, the last episode is going to give you a really good understanding of what is

02:23

Bitcoin, why do we look to it, what it provides. This episode, we want to get really practical and get into how do we set it up, how do we use it, things like that.

02:34

I ended the last episode by telling a story that you'll hear at the end of that one about how the government can come in and just take your money if they think they're owed your money.

02:44

But they can't do that with Bitcoin. That's the thing. You can actually pick up and move across the world and take your

02:53

Bitcoin with you. You can't do that with gold. The reason you can't do that with gold is because there's this thing called TSA.

02:59

If you haven't been following, I do read a lot of travel blogs, and there's a big problem that people are having. They're trying to transport gold coins, and guess what happens?

03:07

TSA goes, oh, we think you're doing that for drug purposes. We need to confiscate this. And once they confiscate it, you never see your gold again.

03:16

So it's really difficult to travel with gold, but it's really easy to travel with Bitcoin.

03:23

And so we want to get into this episode with trying to see how do we set this up? How do we use

03:29

Bitcoin? There's now at least one country where Bitcoin is the standard for the standard currency.

03:38

So these are things I think are going to continue. But let's pick up where we left off.

03:45

Now, Jim, I know you still had some questions from last week, some rapid fire you wanted to ask

03:50

Will. So why don't we pick up where we left off with some of your questions you had? Okay.

03:56

We all agree that inflation is a bad thing. It's a way that our time, our energy, our efforts, our value is stolen.

04:03

So what is going to keep Bitcoin from being inflated, for one? Or what is going to keep it from dropping in value as people maybe say, you know, this isn't the best medium of exchange?

04:13

As a Bitcoin owner, somebody who owns a little bit of Bitcoin and savings, what is my hedge against that inflation?

04:23

What's going to keep it valuable? Right now, just to make this contemporary, we've seen in the last three weeks or so,

04:29

Bitcoin go from almost $50 ,000 a coin, $47 ,000, down to now under $39 ,000 as of this morning.

04:37

It seems like it's dropping in value. What's going to keep it from becoming valueless? And if I've invested all this money and it goes down to zero because nobody wants to use it anymore, or what's going to keep it from being inflated and becoming valueless?

04:48

Because there's so many of them that now it's like the US dollar. Let's handle the easy one first.

04:54

The easy one is the value going to zero, right? We established in the last episode that all value is subjective, is based on the needs of the marketplace.

05:05

So the value of the dollar is dropping towards zero because it's being inflated and because people are choosing better money.

05:13

What will prevent Bitcoin from going to zero? Because I will be the buyer of last resort. I will always be buying

05:19

Bitcoin at any price. And why? Because it's better money. Because technologically it's superior, so I will continue to trade

05:26

US dollars for Bitcoin at any price as often as I possibly can. And because there is more than one person in the market who, like me, is a rational actor and wants to buy

05:36

Bitcoin, there is a floor at which the price will not go below. Because as it is dropping, you reach a point where the people who are willing to buy at any price have enough buying power to consume all the available supply.

05:52

And now that kind of segues us to the second question of that available supply.

05:58

Bitcoin has a hard cap of 21 million. What does that mean? That means that the way that the code was written, the way the protocol operates, every 10 minutes when a block is mined, the miner who mines that block is given a reward.

06:14

That reward is currently 6 .25 Bitcoin. At the beginning of the network, it was 50 Bitcoin every 10 minutes.

06:21

And every four years, roughly, or 210 ,000 blocks, the reward is cut in half.

06:27

So it went from 50 down to 25 and so forth, and it's going to continue to cut out.

06:33

So what does that mean? It means that right now, 90%, a little over 90 % of the total Bitcoin supply that will ever exist has been created, or like 90 .5

06:43

% of the total supply of Bitcoin. Because it's halving every four years, the amount that's entering is gradually reducing, and it means that the final

06:53

Bitcoin rewards won't be mined until the year 2140, approximately. So what does that mean?

06:59

It means that basically, for all intents and purposes, all the Bitcoin that's going to exist already exists.

07:06

And what keeps that from changing? Well, what keeps that from changing is that, because like we discussed, everyone in the system is expected to act in their own best interests, if I'm a miner and I created a new block and I say, hey, you know what?

07:18

I gave myself 100 Bitcoin instead of 6 .25. What are you going to do about it? Well, the rest of the network says, I'll tell you what

07:23

I'm going to do about it. I'm going to discard that block and I'm not going to trust it. That's not a valid block. You didn't follow the rules of protocol.

07:29

And why would I let you have that block? Why did I let you have those Bitcoins? Because one, that breaks the rules of the system, which is going to break trust in the system.

07:38

But more importantly, that gives you more Bitcoin than you're supposed to have, which deflates the value of my

07:44

Bitcoin, right? So if I let you do that, I'm acting against my own best interests. And every node in the world that's running, of which anyone can run one,

07:53

I run a pair of nodes at my house. So there are millions of them. Millions of them.

07:59

Out there running. They are validating every block and they check it. So I hear about a block.

08:05

My node hears about a block. It examines it, checks to make sure that the coins haven't, that have been spent are using the correct signatures.

08:12

No one cheated. And assuming that all of those rules were followed, then it says, okay, cool.

08:18

I'm going to tell everybody else that I know about this block. And it propagates through the network. But if it gets one that's invalid, it goes, well, that's a waste of time.

08:24

I don't know whoever spent the time making that block wasted it. And it just discards and doesn't tell anybody. And it dies right there. It's kind of self pruning.

08:31

So that's what handles the inflation is that it's a, it's a self regulating system because it's in the interest of every participant in the system to ensure that nobody gets a leg up.

08:40

No one gets to be the money printer. So you either have the world right now where someone gets to print the money and it's not you, or you have

08:47

Bitcoin where nobody gets to print the money and it's still not you. So to, to cue off on that question, then if if there's only 21 million of them that will ever be available and probably

09:00

I would think that between the five of us, we would own at least one Bitcoin amongst the five of us.

09:06

That doesn't seem like a lot of Bitcoin to go around the entire world. How is there, there's just not going to be enough for all of us.

09:13

Yeah. So when we talk about a Bitcoin, what we're really talking about is 100 million

09:19

Satoshis. So a Satoshi is currently the smallest unit of Bitcoin. Think of it like cents to the dollar.

09:25

One dollar has a hundred cents. There are 100 million cents or Satoshis in a Bitcoin, a

09:31

Bitcoin, the way we refer to it, the nomenclature wise is just a, a way to measure an amount of Bitcoin, right?

09:39

But you can buy $1 worth of Bitcoin. That'll get you, you know, 2000 Satoshi or 2000 saps is what we would say worth of Bitcoin.

09:47

So it's super divisible. It's digital. You could keep dividing it. And if that was ever not enough Satoshis to, to divide enough, you could just increase the decimal place, right?

09:56

It'd be kind of like having, you know, 10th of a penny. It's not like it makes more money. It just makes the money easier to break into smaller units.

10:03

Yeah. And that was going to be one of the questions I was going to ask you because people might be thinking like, he, Jim just mentioned like $40 ,000 for Bitcoin.

10:10

I can't afford that. No, you're, you buy a fraction of it. You don't buy a full bit.

10:15

I mean, maybe some people buy a full Bitcoin, but if you, you know, like, so what, I mean, what do you do though?

10:20

Like with Jim's question, what do you do when you have Elon Musk saying, I'm going to buy tons of Bitcoin. Can he buy all of it?

10:27

Well, just to give a little flavor and some real world numbers to this, right? There's, there's 7 .9 billion people around the earth right now, right?

10:34

If you just did a basic math, divide that by 21 quadrillion Satoshis, right?

10:39

It's roughly about 250 ,000 Satoshis per person, right? So there's obviously plenty enough divisibility in that.

10:46

And in the future of being able to subdivide that digitally further, if necessary to, to ensure that global commerce, global trade could, could exist on a monetary system that is, that is purely digital and demand is, is part of the problem and part of the solution, right?

11:02

In other words, we've all pointed to the reality that the price of the asset, the convertibility of that asset between us dollars or whatever currency you happen to live in to Bitcoin is going to be a function of the market.

11:15

And, and the volatility that you referenced there, Jim, the fact that Bitcoin goes up really, really, really fast and then it goes back down.

11:23

And sometimes you can see five, 10, 15 % drops in a single day or 20, 30, 40 % drops over the course of a couple of months is something that I feared.

11:32

Right. I'll stand up at a minute. When I first got into it, I looked at that and go, wow, how is that a store of value? Right. But I think what we've been conditioned by is a system that has been so carefully over -engineered and controlled that there is no volatility in it.

11:46

Right. When, when governments have the ability to both issue debt and then buy it back from themselves, essentially that's what the federal reserve gets to do to be able to maintain their desired inflation rate and their liquidity for the banks around the world, right there, they are controlling the money supply so heavily that there is no volatility and we draw an analogy, right?

12:05

We are, we are living, breathing organisms that God has created and, and they're living, breathing organisms have feedback mechanisms that respond to their circumstances, right?

12:15

Our temperature rises. When we have a fever, we have lots of those feedback mechanisms in us. And that's a volatile system, right?

12:22

So when you see volatility, what do you see? You see life, you see what God has created and you see the people that God has created in that system, exercising their free and independent rights in emotional ways.

12:34

Yes. Right. And then fear and obviously excitement drive those markets. But I think what we really want to encourage

12:41

Christians to see here in, in Bitcoin is not necessarily the price volatility and say, that's what you're trusting.

12:47

Okay. So this is the security. This is the number one question that I get when I talk to people about Bitcoin is, but there's all this change.

12:55

What, what causes that change? Like you just mentioned all this via viability that you can, it can be up 15 % down 15 and P that makes everybody nervous, as you said.

13:05

But the thing that I find most people say is, well, what is causing that change? Where does it get the fluctuation from?

13:15

It's a free and open market. So the dollar prices arrived at every moment by willing buyers and willing sellers.

13:25

So if there's more buyers than sellers, then the price goes up. If there's more sellers than buyers, then the price goes down.

13:33

And the system operates 24, seven, three 65, you know, go to the bank on a

13:38

Saturday and try to send money anywhere. Right. And it, and it can't happen and it'll charge the caution arm and a leg by the time it finally gets there next week,

13:47

Bitcoin facilitates the movement of money almost instantaneously worldwide, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 and a quarter days a year.

13:58

So Dave, you said something a while ago when we were talking between episodes here off recording about people giving their money, putting their money in a bank and what they're really after is the ability to move it digitally.

14:10

Explain that a little bit and how Bitcoin does that just one step removed. Sure. I mean, you, most people have their, their money direct deposited into their bank account.

14:20

Why? Well, because they don't want to take a paper check and, you know, go to the bank and stand in line and deposit it.

14:26

But why do you put your money in the bank? I mean, there's a certain sense that you put it in there because it's more, you know, quote secure.

14:32

In other words that, you know, somebody's not gonna knock you on the head and take it. And we can deal with that aspect. But primarily the reason people put their money in the bank is because they want to digitize it so that they can move it around, you know, the world and for commerce purposes.

14:49

And so they can, they can, they can pay a bill. They can pay their credit card. They can order on Amazon and never have to touch.

14:55

They never have to touch the physical money. They can order something on Amazon. Amazon takes out of the credit card.

15:00

The bank pays the credit card company with the money that you deposited it. That convenience really is the only, what you're doing with your money when you put it in a bank is you're basically purchasing is the wrong word, but you're exchanging that money for the convenience of being able to move it just like that anywhere you want in the, in the world.

15:18

Right. You're, you're buying into the interconnected digital monetary system of the world and you're paying a high price to be able to do that for sure.

15:26

But that's, that's what you're after. I mean, you want to be able to get a pizza on a Friday night and, and, you know, so you do it online and you put in a credit card number and the pizza shows up at your door.

15:37

And, and Bitcoin is another way of doing that, but we're taking the bank and thus the government control of the bank out of that picture, because we're taking our

15:46

U S dollars. We're exchanging them for the digital currency. And now you, I, you and I could send money to one another.

15:53

We're separated by five miles. You and I could send money to one another right now, instantly through Bitcoin, through the

15:59

Bitcoin network digitally. And I'm not re I'm not requiring the bank to be the intermediator to get the money from me and then turn around and give it to your bank and have your bank then give it to you.

16:10

So in other words, Jim, you don't have like, if I was to send you a check from my bank, they're going to hold that check.

16:16

They're going to put the money, say the money's there, but it's really not there because they're going to hold it for five days to make sure it clears.

16:21

You're saying with Bitcoin, it's immediate or it's almost immediate. Just like that. Bitcoin is a bearer.

16:27

Yeah. Bitcoin is a bearer instrument. It's so it's, it's settlement is final credit cards, settlement on a credit card.

16:33

If you're a merchant and you're selling through a credit card, the banks can claw it back for up to a month from you.

16:40

So the, it takes a very long time to get settlement. If you send a wire transfer somewhere, it's not final settlement.

16:46

There are days before that money is finally settled and it can't be clawed back with a

16:51

Bitcoin transaction. Once it's buried into the block. So you wait for, you know, the rule of thumb is you wait for three blocks.

16:58

So it was about 30 minutes and you've got final settlement. It never can be clawed back. And with the lightning network, which is a different subject altogether.

17:06

I know you want to get into it. That is almost an immediate exchange of money from peer to peer. So let me ask you guys,

17:12

I mean, you know, will you mentioned mining? What is mining? I mean, we hear this a lot and people have no clue what that is.

17:21

What is, what do you mean when you say bit miners? And things like that. So mining is the process of they, a

17:31

Bitcoin miner will take transactions that are pending. They'll collect them together.

17:36

They'll stick them into a, into a block, a group of transactions. They will then reference the previous block in the chain.

17:44

And then they will put in a, a random number that they have found that then when you, when you hash the block, which is a, it's a one -way cryptographic function.

17:55

You end up with, with a certain value. And I know that's going to go over the heads of most everybody, but let's, let's think of it this way.

18:02

They are looking for, imagine if you had a magical shredder and you could put a piece of paper in and it would shred it.

18:07

And now it comes a number and it's a random number and you have no idea what the number is going to be. So they guess a random number and then they hash the whole block.

18:15

And they are hoping that the number that comes out of this random number generator, which is predictable.

18:21

Every time you put the same inputs in, you'll get the same output. They're hoping that it is lower than a certain target difficulty.

18:29

Why, why are they doing that? They're doing that so that the difficulty is adjusted automatically such that a new block takes 10 minutes to find based on all of the miners, all guessing simultaneously all around the world, trying to find this random number.

18:41

That's going to make it true that it's less than this target number. It's about 10 minutes of work to do that.

18:47

So mining is the process of expending all of this energy in order to find the random number that makes this block valid.

18:56

The reason that you want to do that is because again, there's no good way. There's no tangible way to tie a digital asset to the real world.

19:05

If you didn't have all that proof of work and you just had a sequence of blocks that referenced one another, but there was no work involved.

19:12

Then I could trivially go back in time and rewrite all of history just like that, right?

19:17

Go back to the very beginning and change the order of transactions and do all of those things. And you wouldn't be able to prove that that had, you know, that wasn't the real history by expending real world effort, real world work into, into finding these 10 minute blocks.

19:31

When I look back in history, I can say, okay, I know that that block must really be this old because there's no way that someone could have expended enough energy to mine all of the intermediate blocks in a faster amount of time than it purports to be.

19:45

And these are all done on special purpose computers. So maybe that's something that, you know, this is a good place as any to shoehorn in there.

19:53

It's not like Google with their data centers could jump in here and rewrite the, you know, the chain. These, these

20:00

ASIC computers have only one function and their function is to, is to generate the hashing for these blocks.

20:08

It's called an ASIC, an application specific integrated circuit. If Google and Amazon and Microsoft and everybody turned all of their data centers and tried to attack

20:17

Bitcoin simultaneously, all of their computing power would not even make a dent in the, in Bitcoin's network.

20:23

And see one of my fears always of getting into Bitcoin. I remember when Bitcoin was a thousand dollars and I was in jujitsu and one of the guys in jujitsu was getting into it, trying to get me into it and I was like a thousand dollars for one coin.

20:36

And I was fearful. And, and my big argument then is, or I have a background in, in computer science.

20:43

And I said, once you get into crypto, you know, into a quantum computing, I mean, the first thing hackers are going to look to do is going to go after the, the, you know, after Bitcoin.

20:53

Now one of the things with that is I ended up realizing, wait, you know, that you wouldn't have the hackers cause you know, quantum computers are going to be very, very expensive.

21:00

So you'd have the Googles and those, but they would probably get in trouble getting caught doing that. So you'd have the government, but guess what?

21:06

If the government is the ones doing that they already went after your fiat money anyway, that was the easier one for them to do.

21:13

But, but I ended up realizing there's many people that are now getting involved with Bitcoin and quantum computing to try to make sure that when quantum computing does come out and folks, you don't know, it's basically just using tons of processors to attack one, one piece of work.

21:30

And when you start doing the Bitcoin with that, that's going to be the protection. But, you know, let me ask this because I want to get into, well, how do we set this up?

21:42

But as you and I, as you guys and I have talked, you know, months ago, you guys have a very particular view.

21:49

It's Bitcoin only. I mean, what do you, what do you have against Elon Musk's doge coin or this guy who's got the house, he calls it the one.

21:58

And he's, he's turning that into a couple of square inches of his house.

22:03

Each square inch is going to be a coin. And there's all these other currencies out there,

22:09

Ethereum and all these others that people talk about. Why Bitcoin? Why not them?

22:15

What makes Bitcoin different? All the others are frauds. That's a good short summary.

22:22

Wow. You, you sound like, you sound like Jim when he, when he's, when someone asks him about some cults, well, they're just a fraud.

22:28

Okay. Move on. So I think that a little bit longer answer, answering the same end result of it's a fraud.

22:37

We can broadly take cryptocurrencies and a cryptocurrency would be loosely defined as just a some, a piece of technology that is attempting to use cryptography, which is some advanced mathematics to secure it.

22:51

We can broadly divide cryptocurrencies by those that are trying to be money and those that are not trying to be money of those that are trying to be money.

23:01

There is a network effect to money, right? Why is it that gold was the best money and everyone converged on gold as being the best money because money functions better when everyone's using the same money, right?

23:12

So all the fiat currencies exist by fiat, their governments declared that they are the 10, you know, the legal tender you must pay taxes in because they want to be the ones that hold the keys to the printer.

23:22

But in general, money wants to converge on a single best money that all monies are in competition.

23:30

And Bitcoin has massive dominance. We're talking like 98 % dominance of all of these cryptocurrencies that want to be money.

23:39

And when we talked about the security, security was derived from the amount of effort and work that goes, that gets put into them.

23:45

There is massive security behind Bitcoin because there's a massive amount of work put into Bitcoin.

23:51

Why? Because Bitcoin is the leader. It's got the, it's got the first mover advantage and not just the first mover advantage.

23:58

It is the it is the, the predominant form of digital money. And if I am looking at, okay,

24:05

I'm going to spend real world costs to mine either Bitcoin or something else. Well, there's no value to most of these other coins.

24:12

They're worthless by market cap. So if there's no value to it, then I might as well not mine it because it's not worth it.

24:18

And if it's not worth it to mine it, then there's no security. And if there's no security to the network, then the value doesn't come.

24:24

And if there's no value, then there's no one mining and you get this vicious cycle downward, pushing all of the other currencies down.

24:29

And that same, that same cycle inverted is what pushes Bitcoin upward, right? There's security.

24:35

So there's people investing into it. There's people investing in and trying to buy it and save in it, which drives the value up, which makes it more appealing for people to mine, which means that they start mining and the security budget goes up and it, you know, kind of lifts the whole system.

24:46

So that, that takes care of the monetary applications, right? So then there are these cryptos that want to be an application platform and they want, you know, there's

24:56

DeFi and, and all of these other things, scams. They don't work because the incentives don't work.

25:05

So the B at the beginning, they just copied Bitcoin's consensus code. They were going to be proof of work coins, just like Bitcoin.

25:12

So the problem with that is that the higher the price of Bitcoin, the more security there is, cause there's more incentive to mine.

25:23

The higher the price of Ethereum, the more expensive it is to do transactions on the

25:28

Ethereum network because Ether is the native token of the Ethereum chain. And it's consumed as like, as a gas when, when you use it.

25:37

Well, if the price of Ethereum goes up, then it's more expensive to do transactions on the network. Well, if it's more expensive to do transactions on the network, then the miners like it cause you know, they, they want to make more money, but the application users, they don't like it because now all of a sudden it's more expensive to do things, right?

25:54

So what are they going to do? Well, they're just going to take their application and they're going to move it to another chain that is a little bit faster and a little bit cheaper.

26:01

Cause there's no cost to doing that. I have a Twitter account and a Facebook account. Why? Because it's trivial.

26:06

I can use as many applications as I want with my money. I can only be in one place. I either have my money in Bitcoin or I have it in something else.

26:14

So the proof of work system didn't work. So Ethereum is, and a lot of the other coins are trying to move to a proof of stake system to avoid the security problem, right?

26:23

Nobody wants to mine them in the numbers they want to mine Bitcoin. The incentives are misaligned, which drives the price up.

26:28

So, okay. Proof of stake. How does that work? What we'll do is we'll take the people who have the most money invested in the system and we will put them in charge of validating transactions.

26:38

Or rephrase another way. We're going to let the rich enforce the rules. Make them and enforce them.

26:45

Where have I heard that before? Where have I heard of a system where the rich and powerful get to rewrite the rules on a whim and the, the poor people just get screwed over constantly.

26:57

The proof of stake system is just a re -implementation of the current fiat system, but with new rulers. And the way that these application chains work is a decentralization system is slow because it's hard to reach consensus globally in a trustless way.

27:11

So then a new coin comes along and it's a little bit less decentralized, which makes it cheaper and faster. So people move to that, which incentivizes another chain to come along.

27:19

That's a little bit less decentralized and it's a little bit cheaper and faster. And everybody moves to that. And that continues to happen as you move towards a fully centralized system.

27:29

That's just cheap and fast. And, and the problem is the incentive structure of all of these other things is misaligned and drives negative outcomes.

27:40

And so all of these, all of these other systems are just economically and engineering perspective wise, they're doomed to failure.

27:47

Okay. So then let me ask now that you convinced me I should do Bitcoin, right? How do

27:53

I get set up on Bitcoin? What is the, do I need to set up a wallet? Are there, are there ways to set this up easily?

28:02

Because when we talk about this, right, we could talk about a wallet and the importance there is, you know, for my son, for example, he has a, you know, a, basically a flash drive.

28:13

That's his wallet. Okay. That he could take with him anywhere. Loses that. He loses all of his money, right?

28:19

All that Bitcoin is just gone. And so what becomes the, is there other ways of doing it?

28:25

Is there an advantage to keeping it on a device like that? And then you got to make sure you never lose your password.

28:31

So if you're someone prone to forgetting your password or not tracking things well, that may be a problem, right?

28:40

Because you can't get this back, right? There's no way to, there's no like, I forgot my password button when it comes to Bitcoin.

28:48

So what are some different ways to set up Bitcoin? And if you could go from like the easiest way to set up for, for brand new users to the more difficult way that's more secure, you know, which is going to be where you have your wallet and it's on that, that drive that you can carry around with you, which by the way, would be easy to walk up, you know, out of this country, go to another country and all your, your

29:11

Bitcoin stays the same, which, and that's one of the things here, right? Your dollar's going down. This is one of the things actually,

29:18

I don't know how much you guys have studied of World War II and all, but when, when the

29:23

World War II and all was going on, you know, Einstein got the Nobel prize, which was a million dollars.

29:31

Although once by the time they actually gave it to him in German money, it was almost, it was like half the money because the value went down.

29:40

But if they gave it to him in Bitcoin with him being here in America, he could have just taken that Bitcoin, walked into America and it would have the same value in America as it did in Germany.

29:51

Once he left where the German mark didn't. So, so go from easiest to hardest in the setup for us.

30:00

Sure. I'll tackle that one. And I'll just reassure those who are listening just if I can do this, so can you.

30:07

I struggled with this very concept a year and a half ago when will introduce me to it.

30:13

And I was scared. I had no idea. I mean, what, I had no idea what even website to go to. I had no idea how it was purchased.

30:19

I had no idea how it was stored custody. And I can go from zero to where I am today within that period of time, because there's great resources out there.

30:29

And, and we at Bitcoin in the Bible podcast reinforced that Bitcoin is about work. It's based upon work and, and education is the work that you will put into it.

30:38

And then when you put in the work, you will get the value back out of it. That's the way God has designed his, his world to work.

30:45

So we would recommend to you that you self -educate and we provided some great resources. If you go to our website, bitcoininthebible .com,

30:53

we have written a Bitcoin startup guide document. Jim actually helped me with that. So thank you again,

30:58

Jim, you, your work is paying it forward for all of those who are listening to Andrew sign up and buy

31:04

Bitcoin. The thing is I was just the idiot who read it and I said, this is confusing to me because I'm a complete moron.

31:11

Can you make this clearer? And you clarified it. And that was the work I put into it was just me being stupid was my contribution.

31:18

Well, you're, you're minimizing that, but the good news, the good news is right.

31:23

It, we, we want people to think about buying Bitcoin in terms of the easiest, the simplest ways to get started.

31:30

But, but before you start, we also want you to think about it in terms of a couple other things, right? How private do you want to be?

31:36

And do you want your customer information, your banking information associated with it, or do you need for some reason or another for that to not be associated with it?

31:44

Maybe I'm envisioning a missionary. Who's living in a closed country and, and can't take advantage of easy banking setups in the

31:53

U S right. So obviously our Bitcoin startup guide is written for people who are in the U S who don't mind their information being associated with the basic amount of information that their

32:01

U S bank accounts are associated with. If you find yourself in a different category, then obviously get in touch with us. And we'd be happy to walk you through some of the more private, more secure ways that you could access and get access to Bitcoin without your information being attached to it.

32:15

But from a very simple perspective, you're going to set up an account with a company that allows you to purchase

32:21

Bitcoin. We typically discourage working with companies that, that delve into the old coins for the very same reasons that we'll just outline for you.

32:30

We want to encourage companies that are invested in what we would see as a more moral, more sound form of money, that being

32:35

Bitcoin. So there, there are several out there depending on how much you want to buy. If you wanted to buy 50 cents, five bucks, 10 bucks, we'd have you start with a company called strike.

32:43

It's a really easy, safe, fast, fun way to set up and buy Bitcoin. And if you were just like your son and your daughter came up to you and said,

32:51

Hey dad, I have 17 bucks that I just earned a shovel and snow. Can I, can I buy Bitcoin? Strike would be the way that I would have you go.

32:58

If you, if you have a hundred thousand, 200 ,000, 50 thousands, more than that, you're you're maybe you're talking about rolling in a retirement account, a 401k or an

33:06

IRA into Bitcoin. Then obviously strike is not going to be the way to go for you. There's a, there's a couple of better options out there that we go over in our

33:12

Bitcoin startup guide. But the simple fact is you're going to take your money from your bank account. You're going to buy

33:18

Bitcoin. And then that company that you buy it through is going to hold it for you. They're going to custody it for you.

33:24

But as we'll correctly said, as long as it's in their custody, it's not your coins. You own an IO, you owe an

33:29

IOU right to that, just like you would, if you have your money in the bank. So we would then recommend that you educate yourself with regards to how to self custody and self custody sounds hard.

33:39

It's actually not that hard. We're actually our next episode in the season is going to be on self custody, but we already have resources on our startup guide that walk you through the, the very simple basics to say, if you have a smartphone today, you can self custody your own

33:52

Bitcoin. It's, it's that simple, that straightforward. It's free. There's no, no cost to learning how to self custody your own

33:58

Bitcoin. If you need more security than what your smartphone provides, then there are, there are simple straightforward, less than a hundred dollars steps that allow you to achieve a storage mechanism that you'll hear referred to as a cold storage or a cold wallet.

34:13

And really when you say the word wallet, it's a bad moniker. A wallet is simply a device, whether it be your phone or whether it be a device that's not on your phone that holds your signature, your authenticating mechanism to say

34:26

I own this Bitcoin. But I think that that concept of a wallet creates a fear and a trepidation that I can lose my wallet.

34:34

I've I've lost my wallet before and I've, I've lost a small amount of change that's in it. But what you want to reassure yourself is, is if you did lose your wallet, there, there are mechanisms by which you could regain access to your funds because the, the

34:46

Bitcoin does not live on the device, the wallet itself, right? And the Bitcoin is on a transactional ledger of which there are millions of copies around the world.

34:55

And all you need to do is be able to restore your access to it by having your signature, your key backed up.

35:01

And so there are, there's some very straightforward tools that we can teach anyone from, from your grandmother down to my, my little five and 10 year olds who are holding their own

35:10

Bitcoin to know and to use. And that's really what we're about. We want generations of Christians, whether they be in closed countries or open countries to be able to look at their savings and recognize that they're educating their families, whether their families are in the later stages of life or whether they're just getting started in their working world and transferring your wealth is all, it was more about transferring wisdom, wisdom of how to work and live in God's world wisdom of how to love other people around you.

35:34

Wisdom of how to transfer that wealth to the next generation. And Bitcoin provides the beautiful nexus of all of those.

35:40

And that it gives you a safe, easy, secure way to hold your money today, to store that value into the future and to be ready to secure it in a, in a moment of crisis and emergency.

35:51

And to be able to share it with those anywhere in the world who are going through a crisis and emergency and to love them the way that God intends us for us to love the people in the church.

35:59

So we just, we delight in the reality that there are almost endless applications of this, whether it's saying, how do

36:05

I support a pastor in Canada? Who's been imprisoned because he's preached against C4, or how do

36:10

I help a missionary in India who can't accept money through the traditional banking system? Or, or how do

36:16

I just help my brother -in -law across the country who had a family emergency and needs money from a medical medical crisis.

36:22

And maybe he or she can't go into a hospital because of their vaccination status. How do I, how do I get them the funds so that they can get to where they need to, to get the kind of care that they need and the freedom that Bitcoin provides the censorship resistance that it provides are, are some of the basic incentives that allow believers of all shapes and sizes to invest the work and the time to get acquainted with it.

36:43

So we're talking about starting off with a way of just buying Bitcoin and being familiar with I took $5 out of my bank account and purchased

36:52

Bitcoin through strike and just being comfortable with having that on my device.

36:58

And it's there in strike. And then the next step then would be to put that into a wallet.

37:03

Let's say I buy my $10 worth of Bitcoin in strike. Then I use my strike app to send it to my wallet, like a blue wallet, moon wallet, trust wallet, something like that that can store to store that.

37:16

And Andrew said something earlier about the Bitcoin being, being stored on that thumb drive.

37:21

And if you lose it, you lose all your Bitcoin. That's not exactly true because your Bitcoin is not stored on the drive.

37:27

It's not stored in a wallet or on your phone at all. You could lose, I could lose my phone right now and I get to be destroyed and I can go back and I can recover my investment because I have my, my seed word, my, my, my words that are the backup phrase for my wallet.

37:44

I could, I could lose my phone right now and go over to Russia, get onto a computer, get into a wallet and enter in my passcode to get my

37:54

Bitcoin back. And it's right there. My value is there because it's not on any device. It's actually on the network itself.

38:00

My device gives me access to the network. Is that correct? Absolutely. Yeah. And you're, you know, you mentioned just for folks, if you go to bitcoininthebible .com,

38:11

which is kind of the homepage for your, your podcast, but it also has all your resources. And you mentioned your, your setup guide, which is down toward the bottom of that page.

38:21

And I recommend you guys, if you're interested in doing this, you know, listen to Bitcoin in the

38:27

Bible, go back to episode one of season one, listen through those. But then what I want to encourage you to do is go to the startup guide because everything that Simon just said is basically right from the guide.

38:39

He's just, you know, it walks through and has videos. It has links. You know, obviously we can't, you know, we don't have the time to go through everything to say, okay, this is step one, step two, step three in, in a one hour podcast.

38:52

But the guide actually walks you through with videos and things like that of how to get set up with this.

38:58

I know that I got set up at least not, you know, I mean, Stripe was what, 30 seconds to download, maybe a minute to set up and you say, well, what's, what's the advantage of, of Bitcoin.

39:10

Here's the one thing that I'm going to ask you guys is, okay, so now I got all this Bitcoin, but how does that help me in currency?

39:16

Right? Now with Strike, I know that I could pay Jim right now because he's got Strike and I have

39:21

Strike and we can, we can exchange that way. But when you talk about bigger, bigger purchases and things, how, how does being in Bitcoin help us?

39:31

Some people look at this as this is just an investment or a protection against government overreach and the fiat system.

39:39

Is that all that Bitcoin is or is it something more? And how do we, how do we use it?

39:47

Yeah, I would say that confidently speaking, just rest in the reality that right now today in the U S Bitcoin is treated as a capital asset.

39:54

It's not a currency. And that's where you want to be careful. I don't like the term cryptocurrency for that very reason, right?

40:00

It is not a competition to the U S dollar right now today in the United States. Right. You're not going to go around buying and selling in Bitcoin.

40:06

And that's not the reality that we're looking at today. It could be tomorrow. And as you mentioned, Andrew El Salvador has established it as a legal currency.

40:14

So if you traveled to El Salvador, you could pay for anything you wanted to in El Salvador in Bitcoin, right?

40:19

So what is it today? Well, right now it's a great savings technology. It's a way to store value.

40:25

And so just buying it and holding it is the basic, most simple thing that we could recommend taking whatever funds that you would normally just put into savings, whether you would put those into a

40:34

U S bank account where the savings, a nominally infinitesimal interest rate attached to it or any other savings vehicle that you would normally use, right?

40:44

Think of it as your long -term savings, something you're not buying and selling. You're not trading it. You're not trying to, to get a quick buck and then get back to the safety of the

40:51

U S dollar that that's not what we're recommending. But if you are then saying, okay, well, what happens if my savings gets to the point where suddenly

40:58

I need to access, I need to cash it out. I need to get it back into a U S dollar Fiat currency, just so I can pay for something.

41:06

Well, there's, there's easy mechanisms to do the opposite of what we just described, buying Bitcoin and having it transferred from your bank account to your

41:13

Bitcoin, and then going back from Bitcoin to your bank account, and then being able to withdraw it. So yes, you can, you can always reverse that when you do, right.

41:21

It isn't going to be a capital gain transaction that you want short or long, short or long.

41:27

You can, you can, you're going to have to, in the U S, as long as you are an IRS tax paying citizen, right?

41:33

You're going to have to report that and you're going to have to then recognize a capital gain short or long -term. So for that reason, we don't recommend necessarily everybody looking at it and saying, yeah,

41:42

I'm just going to get into it and just put everything into it right away, unless they've counted the cost of that. But the, the, the third reality is if you're saying, okay, well, what's the future look like if I wanted to buy a home someday, if I wanted to do bigger picture things, can

41:56

I will I someday have the ability to do that? And this is where I can be confident in reassuring you that the

42:01

Bitcoin space is, is, is growing rapidly with regards to the financial system that will surround parallel economies based upon Bitcoin.

42:11

And there are already companies out there that are allowing a company, businesses to accept payments in Bitcoin. There's obviously companies out there that are looking to lend based upon Bitcoin as collateral and using it as a mechanism to help you purchase larger pieces of property or real estate and do large volume transactions.

42:29

There are, there are companies being built to help banks, right? Eventually get into the world where they might be able to help their customers with Bitcoin.

42:36

So from a traditional perspective, all of the things that you love and appreciate about the current financial system that you would be hard pressed to do without.

42:44

I think some of those will go away and some of those will persist in a new Bitcoin world, but we're excited to be a part of that transitionary process because what it does is it gives us the ability to speak honestly to people and say, what would we recommend that you do today?

42:57

Well, educate yourself about it, get started, get a little bit of Bitcoin, understand the financial system and the fiat system that we currently live in and evaluate the risks that you have of staying in it.

43:09

We're confident that the more that you evaluate and understand the financial system of today, the less likely you will be to trust it.

43:17

And the more likely you will be to verify whether or not you actually own your money in the bank accounts or the real estate or the stocks that you have.

43:24

And the more likely you'll be encouraged to pursue a better form of money. And if Bitcoin is better for you, you'll find happening to you, what's happened to us.

43:31

You'll put more and more and more of your savings into it. And then eventually if you choose to, you can, you can be on a

43:37

Bitcoin standard if you really want to get that. You're not thinking that like someone like Joe Biden would just say,

43:43

Oh, let's do another trillion dollar plan. And here's another trillion dollars. We'll spend another trillion. And I mean just because of the fact that he has spent more in one year than like the last five presidents combined.

43:53

I mean like that, that why should that concern us? Andrew, that's a feature, not a bug. No, honestly, it doesn't matter.

44:02

Go back and look Republican or Democrat, the system, because it's a debt based system.

44:08

Every time a debt is repaid, a currency unit is extinguished. But the problem is, is there's interest associated with every dollar borrowed into existence.

44:16

And so it's a Ponzi scheme. It has to grow. So all the argument really in Washington is about, you know, whose ox is being gored?

44:26

Is it, is it spent on, you know, on the left side of the aisle or is it spent on the right side of the aisle? But, but money is going to continue to be borrowed and continue to be spent.

44:34

And that may be selling you. We talked about this with the fact that when we think about the way money is you go to a bank and you give your, your money there, right?

44:43

You deposit money in your bank, that money doesn't sit and just like waiting for you to take it out.

44:50

That gets loaned out to other people so that the bank can make more money to, you know, cause remember the, the bank has to pay for their employees and the lights and the rental property and all that stuff.

45:03

Where are they going to get that money? Will they get that off of the interest? Cause, and they're going to pay you interest for keeping the money in, but if they're going to give you 5 % interest, they got to make some more than 5 % on what they loan out so that they could pay you your 5 % plus play all their bills.

45:21

And you know, the executives have to get their big salaries. So, you know, this is not like people,

45:27

I think a lot of times people think, well, sort of like people thought with the social security system, that that money was just going to go into a bank, you know, into a reserve just for me.

45:37

And it'll be there for when I get ready for it. Ronald Reagan talked about a lock box. We're going to put it into social security lock box.

45:44

And I think people honestly imagine that there was some sort of vault that the stuff was going into the social security fund is filled with us treasuries.

45:53

It's just promise is IOUs from another branch of the government. Yeah. The certainty is it must be based because as we talked about before, right.

46:03

That David mentioned this in the beginning, that the amount of interest that we owe on our debt is more than a hundred percent of the tax revenue.

46:09

If we tax the entire GDP of the United States today, right. We, we physically cannot pay the debt.

46:15

So like you said, it doesn't matter whether it's Joe Biden or any other president in the future. The only solution that they have is to continue inflating the currency to pay the current debt.

46:24

Right. There's no other way out of that corner. Well, and one of the things, you know, in the fiat system, right.

46:29

If they, if they inflated the dollar, right. To pay off debt.

46:36

Yeah. You could kind of recover from that if you could pay it all off and it would, it would eventually, but now what we have right now, we have people that are inflating the dollar just to pay other people.

46:47

They're not even paying off the debt. And we've been having this for a while now where it's just, well, we'll just create more debt and we'll raise the debt ceiling and it's never getting paid off.

46:56

There's no plan to pay it off. And so one of the things that really got me when I, to think about Bitcoin was the fact that we currently have a system that is, as you said, it's a

47:07

Ponzi scheme. It's doomed to fail because there's, there's just no way to keep it going. At some point, every

47:13

Ponzi scheme fails. This is the, the whole issue is that I see, and you guys correct me if you think

47:20

I'm wrong, but I don't think you will. But we look at the fiat system and say, this is a Ponzi scheme compared to something that yet there might be a lot of volatility in it because the way that it's, it's designed, right.

47:34

The fiat system takes away all of that, but because it's a market system, it's also has the protections of not having this

47:45

Ponzi scheme. And I mean, am I wrong with that? No, I mean,

47:51

Bitcoin cannot be inflated away. Correct. William talked about the, the, you know, there's over 90 % of the

47:58

Bitcoin in existence or already existence, not the 120 years for the remaining nine and a half percent to come into existence.

48:04

So you can predictably say what the Bitcoin supply is going to be at any point in the future.

48:11

So I would challenge anybody. First of all, how many dollars are in existence? Nobody even has an answer for that. And then secondly, how many will be in existence next year?

48:18

Five years, 10 years, right? I mean, the numbers are, are, are staggering and nobody knows.

48:24

All we know is that the purchasing power of the U S dollar continues to be eroded through inflation.

48:30

So what are they doing? They're sucking the productivity out of the economy. That's what's happening.

48:35

Why does a house that, that costs $25 ,000, you know, 20 years ago now sell for $400 ,000 when it's the same nails, the same wood, the same plumbing, nothing has changed.

48:47

What has changed? Well, two things. Number one, inflation has been driving so hard that people are looking for stores of value.

48:55

And so real estate has become a store of value. It's become there's a monetary premium now attached to residential real estate.

49:02

It's no longer a home. It's a capital asset. And that has created all kinds of dislocations in the marketplace in terms of people can't afford housing and, and you know, and all of the associated associated social issues that go along with that.

49:19

And well, to make this easy to understand for folks, if, if let's say there was a million dollars in currency right now and you want to buy a house and it's a thousand dollars, but the government, well, they want, they want to spend more money.

49:37

So they just double all of the dollars. They double it. So now there's $2 million. Well now that thousand dollar thing you wanted to buy just inflated, right?

49:48

Because it, yeah. So now it's $2 ,000, but guess what? Just because a government decided to do that, you didn't have the money in your pocket.

49:58

So you were going to go buy that for a thousand dollars, but now they say, well, you got to come up with two, another thousand.

50:04

You don't have that. And this is the thing that Bitcoin protects against. Where do you see the future with Bitcoin?

50:14

I think that the simple future is that we're going to see the adoption curve continue to follow the pathway that other technologies have come before it, whether it be smartphones, the internet, et cetera, you're going to see more and more users use it.

50:27

Right. As more and more users use it, there's going to be more and more demand for the supply, which is going to be finite.

50:34

And so the finite supply with more and more demand means the price is going to rise. And in any currency, it doesn't matter when the price is going to rise.

50:42

And that's going to be the reason that a lot of people on the front end get in, but eventually it's going to become the hard money that drives all other forms of money out.

50:51

And so even if those who have not gotten on the front end are going to, are going to be dragged in for lack of a better terminology, rather than choosing to do so voluntarily, because it's going to become the dominant mechanism, how long that takes is

51:03

I think a question of some good debate, because I think it ties into the reality of how long would it take if the governmental systems around the world were not self imploding on their way right now, right?

51:16

If, if they were truly basing it upon a free market economic competition I can see this being accelerated.

51:23

If one or more countries decides to adopt Bitcoin as their legal tender and make it the basis for their currency unit, right?

51:32

So in other words, if they were to replace their treasury bonds as their base asset and make

51:37

Bitcoin their asset, basically they could, if they just printed a whole bunch of their currency and bought it right now today made

51:42

Bitcoin their base layer asset, you can see that accelerate much faster into a world where Bitcoin becomes the global base layer asset.

51:49

And I know this ties into a conversation that you and I had to Andrew as to what books would we recommend out there that might anticipate this?

51:57

There's a, there's an excellent series of books, some of which we have on our website with little short descriptions of what those books have in them and when, what to read them for and what to watch out for and what to, what to take away from them.

52:09

But the Bitcoin standard is obviously the one that we recommend first and foremost for anyone, any level

52:15

I've, I've given it to my parents. I've given it to my kids, anyone who wants to get started and needs to get a foundational level.

52:21

It's the best starting point. But if you're asking the question you're asking, what could it look like? What could the world's financial system look like on a

52:28

Bitcoin standard? There's a great book called layered money. That's a little bit more medium level in terms of its difficulty level, but definitely accessible enough for the majority of men and women across the

52:38

Christian world to get into and say, how could this transform into a positive way? The society that we live in.

52:46

Any other resources that, that you'd recommend? I mean, I know you have your website, bitcoininthebible .com,

52:52

which has a lot of resources on it for folks. Yeah.

52:59

You're right. The website has not just books, but it has a websites article, small, short form articles and, and also some video content as well.

53:09

And what you recognize as well is that people learn differently. Some people need a physical book, a printed piece of paper or something that they can hold in their hands and that they can read at their own pace and time.

53:19

Some people are more comfortable in a digital world and would appreciate that short form article, maybe a podcast for somebody explains it to them.

53:26

We have all three of them kind of described on our website so that, that you can learn at your best pace and then help the people around you.

53:33

And that's what I would encourage you to do is if you go through this process and you learn how about Bitcoin, don't do it for yourself.

53:40

Obviously start with yourself, but then turn around and say, who am I going to teach this to in my church body or in my family?

53:46

Because that's really the power in this is loving others the way that Christ has loved us and being sacrificial and demonstrating, taking the time to learn it so that you can then be a resource for people around you.

53:56

Cause you're, we're going to need it. We're going to need people all across this country in this world to, to love others in their church bodies and in their mission organizations and in just in their communities and societies in general, in the future here.

54:08

And if I'm not mistaken, all sales of Jim Osman's book, God Doesn't Whisper goes to flying you to anybody who wants help setting up Bitcoin, right?

54:16

He'll fly you anywhere to help set. Isn't that the way it works, Jim? I'll pay for your zoom meeting.

54:25

In Bitcoin. So, so, you know, one of the things folks that I want you guys to hear now, we've, we brought

54:32

Bitcoin and Bible guys on to specifically talk about Bitcoin. And some of you may be going, well, why would

54:39

I listen to their podcast if I'm not really that interested in Bitcoin? Is it just about Bitcoin?

54:45

I encourage you to go and listen. Yeah. Season one was a lot about the

54:50

Bitcoin and technology and things like that. But season two really got into a lot of explaining money, currencies, how they work.

55:01

So I think that, you know, it's Bitcoin in the Bible, but really, I think you guys should have called it the Bible in Bitcoin because there's actually a lot more

55:08

Bible than Bitcoin, especially in the, in the last season and even in the first episode of season one or season three.

55:16

So I do, I do think that for folks, if you, if you want to learn about Bitcoin, you want to get resources.

55:22

If you go to bitcoininthebible .com, it's a good place to go to get starters, listen to the podcast that they have that we've named number of, of, you know, books to get and all that Simon mentioned here.

55:36

And so, you know, these are some things you could do. So Jim, let me give you the chance to any last things you want to bring up.

55:43

Yeah. One thing I'd like to say is this is just my personal recommendation, not just for their podcast, but also for these men as men,

55:51

I've been able to get to know all three of them now for just under the last year, they've, they and their families have all started coming to Kootenai church.

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And I've had the joy of having all three of these men with their wives and children into my home and enjoying meals with them.

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I've been into their homes to enjoy meals with them. I've, I've seen their integrity, their love for the flock, their willingness to serve their heart for the

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Lord, their ability to handle scripture. These guys come with my heartiest recommendation in terms of their own personal integrity, their use of money, the way they have raised their families around the word of God, their love for the word of God and for the

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Lord and for his people and his church and their willingness to serve. Absolutely phenomenal. So I recommend not just the podcast, but these men as brothers in Christ who, who live what they preach and, and implement that into their families and into the local body as well.

56:42

Yeah. And you know, this is the thing, you know, just, just being on, as you guys know, getting onto the

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Christian podcast community is not actually an easy thing. We, we do make it kind of hard on purpose.

56:55

We, you know, and just so you know, even, even Jim, when he, when he came on with the Kootenai Community Church Worship Service podcast, even though Jim I've known for years, we still went through the same process we put you guys through.

57:08

So we don't let anybody off even if they're friends of ours and we know them well. But I mean, granted, some of the interviews get funnier when you have a long history with someone.

57:19

I mean, I just, just had one of my best friends who's started a podcast and Matt's like live and he still had to do a full interview and everything, which was, which was a lot of fun.

57:30

But the thing is, folks, if you haven't been listening to Bitcoin in the Bible, I want to encourage you to check it out.

57:36

Next episode, I believe we'll get back to our series on what you, what we believe. We'll be talking about angels.

57:43

No, not what Jim thinks he is. I mean, real angels, you know? So I hope you tune in for that.

57:52

If you, if you have enjoyed this, if you found value in this, I want to encourage you guys to consider sharing this with someone else, let someone else know about it.

58:00

That is a great way. If you find value in it, share it with others. And so, you know what,

58:05

Jim? What's that? That's a wrap. This podcast is part of the

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