Next Week: Debate Documentary with Christopher Hitchens

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Imagine there's no heaven above us, no hell below us, above us only sky.

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Imagine there's no heaven, I want you to fix this. There's no heaven, there's no hell below us, above us only sky.

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What does that mean? Because I think the teachings of Christianity are immoral. Saying you must love someone who you also must fear, that's to say a supreme being.

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He thinks Jesus Christ was a real person, was the son of God, was crucified, dead and buried, suffered under Pontius Pilate and rose again from the dead.

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So I know where I am with him. Christopher Hitchens is a public intellectual, which is to say he's the kind of intellectual who matters.

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He's a man of great abilities, he's quick on his feet. You put it modestly, but it is a fantastically arrogant claim.

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Isn't it rather the case that with God anything is permissible? I want you to give me the evidence for an objective moral standard that governs all of us.

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And you can't appeal to anything because those conflict. You can't appeal to the general consensus because those differ over time.

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You haven't given any evidence whatever for all your condemnations of this, that and the other thing.

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Grow, I mean it, I mean it, Douglas, grow up. You have to. By what standard do you condemn any action?

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So that was one of my first introductions to Darren Doan. We've become very close friends since then.

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We've hung out with each other, been to his house and we've done some things together. Darren Doan, welcome to Next Week with Jeff Durbin, brother.

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Man, it's so good to be here. I can't believe that there's a live audience. I'm finally on it, like I'm hyped.

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Let's do this. You're on a real nighttime talk show, man. I know, this is unbelievable.

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And it's not on TBN or any of those other, you know, silly Christian networks, right? That's right.

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No, you're owning the space, you are your own network. And I hope we can talk about that even more tonight because that's what

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Christians need to be doing is 100 % owning the space and just building it. And that's what

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I want you to inspire people towards, Darren, because you inspire me every time I talk to you in this area, the area of the arts and media and what you're doing.

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Just for people who don't know you, because we've done stuff together before, but for people who don't know you, the film

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Collision, they need to see that film. And we're going to talk a bit about your new project with Collision. But just give a little snapshot of your background and like who you are, where you've come from and how you sort of got into this.

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So just people get an idea of who you are. Yeah, I mean, I'm a filmmaker by trade.

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That's kind of the best way I think to kind of set that up. I thought I was going to draw comic books. I graduated high school.

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Nobody hired me. I was 18 years old and I always loved film. I always loved music.

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I love music videos. All my friends were in bands. I just said, I'm going to be a music video director. Day after high school, jumped right into it and haven't really stopped for almost 30 years now.

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But in my mid -20s, so I graduated high school in 1990. In my mid -20s,

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I was working with a ton of Christian bands. I was the guy doing all the punk rock stuff, all the underground independent punk rock stuff.

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And then eventually ran into a bunch of these Christian kids who were in bands.

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I started doing their music videos for bands like MXPX and Supertones and Mike Knott. And I mean, just Stavesacre and all these people.

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And no one ever preached the gospel to me. I was just around it. I was around all these people. And got a hold of CS Lewis' Mere Christianity.

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Got about a page or two in and I said, I'm pretty sure I'm going to hell. And that was,

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I mean, which I'm pretty sure he doesn't even talk about hell, which is just funny. And I just knew like, okay, man, this is it.

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And not too long after that, gave my life to Christ. Figure it out. I was trying to figure out, am

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I going to do music videos? Am I going to still be in this industry? And God kept me here.

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He kept me as a filmmaker. He kept me doing music videos, projects, commercials. And then, but down the line, started doing more documentary type stuff.

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And years later, which is kind of what we can talk about now, but eventually did this film

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Collision with Christopher Hitchens and Douglas Wilson. And that kind of, I never felt like I actually fit, which

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I'm sure you can relate to. I never felt like I fit in sort of modern Christendom. And Collision was sort of my way of sort of expressing like,

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I want to say something as a Christian. I don't know where or how I'm going to be able to do it the way that I thought

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I could do it. Collision was that kind of a project where hip hop, metal, big fat beats, rap, kind of a crazy style of filmmaking.

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I kind of put it all into one project and boom, that was

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Collision. And now here we are 10 years later from Collision. I'm actually revisiting

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Collision. That's right. That's right. And so people can get into sort of the background of Collision.

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This is a film with Pastor Douglas Wilson, Christchurch, Moscow, Idaho, who is a brilliant writer and theologian, speaker, author.

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And Christopher Hitchens, who is one of the most well -known, notorious atheists of the 21st century, 20th and 21st century.

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He is truly my favorite atheist in history. I am so sad that he's gone because I wish that he would have been around when we had this so we could have had dialogue because I really...

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Just tell people about him. Let's do that. Tell people about Christopher Hitchens. I mean, as Doug says in the film, he was kind of a professional intellectual,

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I mean, and writer. And because what he wrote really mattered. People listened to it.

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It was just sharp. It just it really cut, you know, and Christians and non -Christians could see that Hitchens could really describe something.

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He could really point something out. I mean, he was just, you know, he was just that he was that good. But his attacks on Christianity and religion in general were just fantastic.

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Because, well, one, Christianity can take it. So someone like Christopher Hitchens, who wants to come at something and just tear everything apart, go after every verse, every scenario set up in the

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Bible. I mean, that's what he did. And if you weren't prepared for that,

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I mean, you just got leveled because he knew the Bible better than you did.

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And so he was working through these things and questioning you. And if you didn't have an answer, you know, he'd be going after, you know,

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God saying, yes, go in there, take those babies and dash their heads against the rocks and slaughter them.

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And people responding by going, but if you look around, there's got to be a creator, right? You know, and he would just cut right at every single verse that Christians didn't want to deal with.

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And he got away with it for a long time. He got away with it for his entire career. Yes, he did. Until he met

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Doug Wilson. Right. When he met Doug Wilson, things changed drastically. And he was impressed with Douglas Wilson.

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That's what I respected. I think that's where I really fell in love with Christopher Hitchens is when he when he met the opponent that defeated him, soundly defeated him.

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He responded with respect and adulation. Yes. Yes. I mean, and, you know,

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I always get the question, you know. Well, where do you think Hitchens is now? Do you think he finally gave his life to Christ?

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Do you think he had? And in a lot of ways, it's it's really odd because the sort of last few years of his life,

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I mean, he only wanted to be around Christians. Yes. Yeah.

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I mean, so it's there there was, you know. Like I said, people have affection for Hitchens and understand where someone might say, how how dare you?

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You know, he was he was an enemy of the faith. And I mean, if if he was just that, if he was just an enemy of the faith, if he was just truly that, well, then he should still be applauded because he's the kind of enemy that makes

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Davids. Yes. Yes. And it's so important to understand.

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Yeah. And there's a whole bit about loving our enemies that, you know, it's in there somewhere. But, you know, what

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I loved, what I loved about Hitchens. And we're going to play a clip from your new project that you're working on that I am so thrilled about.

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And everyone here is going to be really, I think, the first to see it. Yep. He used he used the word exegesis.

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How many of our enemies of the faith know the word exegesis? Yeah, man.

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I mean, he he was just, you know. He you know, there's there's a certain look you get from certain guys when you get into a room and you can kind of measure up a room pretty quickly.

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OK, if something goes down, are the guys I'm in this room with, are they down to at least go out swinging?

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And Hitchens was one of those guys where we were doing a project together. We we didn't show up saying,

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OK, I'm doing this on the Christian side or the atheist side. We showed up to make a film together.

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And when we got together, he had that look in his eyes like, we're doing this together.

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We're on the same team here. We're going to make something. And you can see that in men. You you can see when they are committed and they're on that team.

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And so for those four days and even a year or two afterwards, every time I would see, you know, see

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Christopher, there was just this look that you just you just knew he was on the team. You just knew that that for that time he was with you.

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He was good. And that that I think that's why people loved Hitchens. He was he was engaged.

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He he knew your position. We had a conversation. It was my

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I mean, it was the funniest roundtables. We were at one of the premieres of the film and it was myself, Doug.

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I think Aaron Wrench, Gary DeMar and maybe

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David Hagopian. I'm forgetting. But Gary DeMar is sitting there like right right next to Hitchens.

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And at some point, Hitchens looked at all of us at the table. He was making a funny comment about something. And he kind of said something to the effect of like, well,

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I mean, because all you guys think that the world's coming to an end real soon. Right. And the whole table was just quiet.

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Nope. And and he kind of looked at us like, don't you? And we kind of just said, not not really.

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And and Gary DeMar explained to him the, you know, post -millennial partial preterist sort of view, 80, 70 temple, that language, all that stuff.

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And Hitchens is listening. And it's like to see him taking new information was like, oh, he's taking this and he's listening to every single thing.

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So that so Matthew 24, you don't believe. Okay. And he's taking it and he takes it in. He sits back and he looks at all of us.

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And, and he says, well, he says must be lonely being all you gents.

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Sometimes it is. He knew we had no friends. Yeah. He was that like, he just looked at us like, well, this is cute.

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Like, cause clearly you have no friends. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's so awesome. And I'd love to sit with you for just hours and talk about just what the experience was like.

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So let's, let's get into it. So you've got something right behind me, right here. Collision through new eyes, collision through new eyes.

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If you guys haven't seen collision, the film, you need to get it immediately. Watch that film.

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I, by the way, I think I told you this, Darren, I think we've talked about this before when I was a chaplain, the full -time chaplain at the hospital,

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I had 30 days, which with each person that came in patient, and I made sure they had a plan where they can get a full understanding of the gospel and who

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Jesus was. They can get prepared for their life to be discipled. And I wanted to make sure they had a lot of the tough questions already answered.

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And one of the things I did every 30 days is I played collision for each new group. So they all got to watch collision at least one time.

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And it was one of the, it was one of the things that I always look forward to because every time

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I played it, it always created these amazing conversations where we can really get in and dig into the gospel because it answered so many questions.

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And I want to say so many people that came in that were these drug addict atheists ended up walking out of that film going, okay,

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I'm open to talking now. And so it was such a, it's such an encouragement to me every month to be able to see people respond to this really well done film like that.

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So tell us about a collision through new eyes. Well, I had, I had always, you know, when, when

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I was cutting the film, you know, I, I had the advantage of obviously going through 30, 40, 50, 60 hours of footage.

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And the thing that really hit me at the time when I was editing is I got to see everything around every scene that ended up in the movie.

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And I was watching Doug Wilson on so many exchanges. And obviously when you have a camera rolling for that long, you see things.

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And I was literally being, I was being mentored by Doug by just watching his mannerisms.

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And there, there were always these moments where Hitch would say something, Doug would say something,

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Hitch, Doug, and Hitch would kind of get a really good kind of zinger. And in my mind, I'd say, I know the response to that.

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I know what Doug's going to say right now. And Doug wouldn't say anything. He'd pull back. And I started learning when it was almost like Doug had a much bigger kind of plan.

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He had a much bigger heart and how he was approaching Hitchens. And he would let him take a couple of shots every now and again.

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He didn't try to answer every single thing. He would kind of let Hitch kind of have one every now and again.

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And I would, and I would watch this. I was so, I was, and again, he knew

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I got four days with this gentleman. And so he really was playing the long game. And so all this footage

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I've known about, obviously, and throughout the years I would back up the hard drives, back up the hard drives, new hard drives, come new components.

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Now we're Firewire, then Thunderbolt. And I kept, and eventually just this last week,

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I kind of transferred it over again and it was just sitting there and I was looking and I saw two folders and I thought, you know what, what if I just opened up the footage and just went chronologically and just told the story of collision with all the footage, all the outtakes, all the, and then

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I was like, I'm just going to do this. I'm going to just start it right now, every week, crank out two to three episodes and we're, you know, could be three minutes, could be 15 minutes, who knows.

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And just revisit the film with all the footage, do my own voiceover to set things up if need be, or to come back and wrap something up.

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But just to do it, I said, I'm just, I'm going to do it. I'm going to just sit down and go for it.

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And I sat down, I started editing. I just started pulling up footage and I was just seeing all these things that I just forgot about and kind of just had, again,

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I had new eyes on the whole project. I was like, wow, this is crazy. And then just,

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I want to tell the story. I want to tell what happened because what I wasn't really able to do in the film, because in one sense, it's not the film

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I was making, but these guys loved each other. Like they just had this affection for each other from like literally minute number one.

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I had that with Hitchens from like minute one. And you see that the very first time

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I turned the camera on and I just And I was like, wow, this is crazy. And then we start filming him and we start joking and it just, and I was like, so there's, there's a whole other story here.

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And that's what God does. I mean, he's always telling multiple stories. And I just thought this would be really cool because I'm, I'm going to go a little deeper now.

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I just, I'm always, I'm much like collision and it's funny because collision was a film that there was nothing like it before it.

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I didn't have a template for it. I just wanted to just be, be like a rapper who got in the booth and just started rapping, just spitting bars, 16 bars going.

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I just wanted to just do something like let let's go. And there was just, and it just, it became like what, what it was.

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But there was so much more. And all of a sudden I'm sitting here going, I'm just going to do it again. I'm going to do something that,

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I mean, I love when I start to do something and I go, there's no template for this. This isn't

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ESPN 30 for 30. This isn't a, you know, whatever doc or this is like,

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I was like the idea to take all the raw footage from a movie and tell a whole other story.

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I'm like, I've never seen that done before. And those are the kinds of things that just get me super fired up.

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Oh, that's awesome. So we're going to play that clip right now. This new series collision through new eyes.

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This is Darren Doan's work. I am so excited for you guys to see this and to get connected and make sure you guys keep sharing this content because the world really does need to see this.

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It's very special. So here's that clip. So here's how collision starts.

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I become a Christian and that first week, a good friend of mine hands me a cassette tape and that cassette tape is a debate between Gordon Stein and Greg Bonson.

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It's the great debate. Does God exist? And I went home and I listened to that debate and I was blown away.

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I was a new Christian, but I could tell right away that what Greg Bonson was doing, his approach to defending the

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Christian faith was just, I mean, you couldn't, you couldn't beat it. It was so unbelievably powerful.

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And I listened to it probably easily a couple hundred times and I was just mesmerized by it.

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And the story goes that you had Gordon Stein, this atheist who was basically going around beating up every

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Christian that would debate him. He was crushing them one by one. But eventually Gordon Stein's disciples ran into Greg Bonson's disciples on a college campus at some point and Bonson's disciples said,

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Oh yeah, our guy will debate your guy. And so that was it. They set it up. And so that debate really kind of changed everything.

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Not only for me, but I think for people in Christian apologetics, because the presuppositional approach to defending the faith just really hadn't been articulated or experienced until that tape got released.

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And years later, I just thought, man, I wish you could see that debate.

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And I thought about how they do the Lincoln Douglas debates and how you have someone dressed up as Lincoln Douglas.

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They do the presidential debates. They've memorized their script and they do it verbatim. So I thought, what if I just got people to do the

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Bonson Stein debate again, then people could really, really experience it. And so that's kind of how this all came about.

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Problem was just finding people to do that. How was I going to do it? It just,

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I just couldn't find a way, you know, to kind of make that happen. And so eventually I was hanging out with David Hagopian and Gary DeMar and we just were talking about this idea.

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And eventually one of those guys said, well, what if we just do a new debate? And I said, well, who should we get to actually do the debate?

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And we talked about Christopher Hitchens. Man, this is probably the greatest living atheist, you know, and like he was just, he was unbeatable.

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And, and the question became who could we actually get? And I asked Gary, Gary, would you debate, you know,

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Hitchens? And he was like, I don't think I want to debate Hitchens. And David Hagopian who was actually trained under Greg Bonson was kind of like, well,

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I could probably debate him, but I don't know if I'd be the best guy to actually do that or, or not.

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And so we kind of just sat around dinner, you know, talking about that. And then eventually at some point one of those guys said to me, oh, if you got

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Douglas Wilson, we would have a debate. I was like, okay, I need to meet

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Douglas Wilson. There is very good.

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There you go. Collision through new eyes.

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Darren Jones. Hey Darren, man, uh, we could just go for days. You and I right now talking about this stuff.

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Like what, what are you, what are you passionate about right now? Like, uh, forgive me, uh, my short -term memory after my seizure is still coming back.

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So of course free speech apocalypse is wonderful, but you also had a series my wife and I watched.

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I remember the series itself, uh, is available on Amazon, I believe. And it was the series in Hawaii, uh, with the photographer, the ocean.

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Short break. Tell, tell everyone just, just quickly about short break so they can go watch that. Short break is just a project that, um,

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I got introduced to Clark little who's like one of the best ocean photographers in the world. He goes into like 10, 15, 20, 30 foot shore break, you know, gets, gets right into it, gets these amazing shots.

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And I just wanted to follow his life, his world. And so, um, yeah, that is, you know, the, uh, documentary, um, short break is on, um, and it's on iTunes,

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Amazon prime. I think you can find it. Um, and then the outdoor network or outdoor channel.

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I forget outdoor TV. I forget actually has the television series. Right. And yeah, I'm just inspired by people who are just doing stuff and making stuff.

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And he's a very visceral dude. He's throwing his body into gnarly situations. And so I just love documenting stuff like that.

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That kind of gets me fired up and maybe gets other people fired up just to go out and do stuff. Yes. All right. So let's talk, let's get to brass tacks here.

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Again, we can talk for days here. Darren, what do you, what are you passionate about right now? Talk to people like you're making films, you're doing big projects, you're doing amazing things.

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Yeah. So end of 2018, I kind of had this just, just epiphany really.

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I've been having a long time that I was actually, um,

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I really didn't understand social media. You know, I think either I thought I was too cool for it or I was doing that fake thing where it's like,

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Facebook's going to be gone. Instagram's going to be gone. There's going to be a new thing and all this stuff. And I just, you know,

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I just wasn't, you know, I just wasn't, I wasn't into it. I just had this, this moment where I was like, this is in my hand all the time.

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I was like, I wasn't watching TV anymore. My news, my content.

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And then at some point last year, like someone said to me, Hey, have you seen these guys that they do these resin pours over wood?

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I was like, no, I don't know. And they pull, you know, YouTube or something and, or even

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Instagram. And these guys take these like cracked pieces of wood and they pour resin and they make these tables and it's like 25 million views.

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Yep. And I was like, and it clicked. I was like, Oh my goodness. Like pop culture is done.

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I was like, pop culture is completely done. It's me culture and not me culture.

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Like me, me, me, like the world doesn't have to go through the gatekeepers anymore. That's right.

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There's like 20 million people or 5 million people, whatever it is, watching people do woodworking, metalworking, knitting.

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And I'm looking over at my wife and she's watching recipes or she's watching a home design thing.

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Not, not even HGTV home design, but she's watching. So I was like, Oh my goodness,

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I missed it. I was like, I missed it. Like it's totally arrived, you know, or I'm watching you guys, right.

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Or I'm watching, or watching cross politic come up on my Facebook feed and it's a show and I'm spending, look every minute here.

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Look, so here's, so here's my thesis and we can flesh it out. I'll do my best to defend it if need be.

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I just believe every Christian needs to be here. I mean, I'm like put every teenager on this right now and we can give it disclaimers and all that stuff.

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But every minute, every second we're on this and we're not on TV or at a movie theater, we are winning a hundred percent.

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We are winning because this is it. And what's happened is reality has won.

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See, I, I don't think people have understood this. Reality has won, not reality TV, but like reality.

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Reality has won. Yeah. People want to watch a dude split wood for two hours.

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Like literal reality is winning and we think this is like somehow like, like, no, no, it's all on our phone now.

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Yeah. And, and once that dawned on me, I was like, I basically, I was like, Hey, I'm firing myself.

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It's only me and my wife. Like I'm firing myself as the head of marketing for my company. I said,

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I'm going to, I'm going to rehire myself in January one. I'm going all in. I'm going,

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I'm going just social media everywhere. I'm doing three, five, six, seven posts a day, multiple platforms from a podcast to Instagram, LinkedIn, Spotify.

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I mean, I'm dropping podcasts and just ideas and thought process on, you know, on SoundCloud and I've got

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SoundCloud rappers now reaching out to me and it's like, I want to be everywhere on every form.

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And again, because this is, this is where it's all changing.

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And I've had so much pushback. It's been crazy. I was going to speak at a Christian event and I said, well, Hey, I'm going to talk about social media.

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Like you can't talk about social media. I was like, well, I'm gonna talk about, I mean, you know, they just talk about entrepreneurship and business.

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I'm like, that is entrepreneurship and business. That's right. Kid can start his own business right here. This is it.

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Like this is it. And to me there's this weird high level hypocrisy that like parents are sitting there going like, you will not be on social media until you're 18.

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You will not have a phone until you're eight. And they're sitting there with their phones. I mean, this is,

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I can watch you guys. I can listen to things. I mean, podcasts, audio. I mean, this device right now,

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I mean, it's just, this is, this is the next industrial revolution. It's the public square.

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What I describe it as. It's the public square in your pocket is the ability. Well, I'll give you an example,

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Darren. Um, I, um, I dropped a video once that was really important for the world to see.

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We, we thought it would have a big impact on the church and it did. But when I dropped it, um,

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I checked the stats like 15 seconds later and the first people that were watching it 15 seconds after I dropped it were in Australia and New Zealand.

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I mean, yeah. So don't, so don't tell me that social media is this scary thing that we need.

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I mean, we need to be all in on social media. We need to be. And, and by the way, if look, so if, if a

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Christian parent said to me, so, are you saying that my 16 year old should, should be on Instagram? I'd probably say no, but if I'm in front of a room full of people and there's a bunch of kids,

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Christian or not, I say, how many people are on social media? Almost all their hands go up.

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And if they don't go up, I say how many of your parents are on social media and everyone's hand goes up.

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And what, what I don't think people are realizing that I've kind of just gotten super fired up to where people are super annoyed with me because I'm all in on this because I want

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Christians to win this space is that your Instagram is your new resume.

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Your Instagram is your new resume. If all things are equal and you're going for a job, trust me, they're looking at your

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Instagram feed and if it's private and the other person's isn't, and they're doing a good job at promoting themselves,

29:40

I'm not talking about just taking selfies. I'm talking about people realizing the power they have to build their brand.

29:46

And by brand, I just mean your reputation. And I'm pretty sure

29:52

Proverbs talks about your reputation. Like this, this is how you build who you are now and how you want to present to people.

30:00

I'm not just talking to a fireman. And he was like, dude, every time we hear of a new hire, everyone in, in the, in, in the, you know, firehouse there is like combing through their

30:11

Instagram is combing through their Facebook. Right. I mean, that's how we're living now.

30:17

That's right. And I want Christians to get there. Well, I think it's powerful too, Darren. And we can probably wrap up on this point, but it's interesting because you mentioned like removing the gatekeepers.

30:27

One of the things is clear from the last election cycle, even is that the major media nationally and internationally realized after the election, the major media didn't own anything anymore.

30:42

They weren't controlling the conversation anymore. I mean, Darren, I remember this dude, it was, it was so clear to me.

30:48

I was in Australia, um, just a couple of days before the presidential election where Donald Trump won this last cycle.

30:56

And I remember my daughter and I at times when we had a break, she was there to assist me and film while we were there, we would be in the room waiting for a pickup or to go somewhere to teach or something.

31:06

And we would turn the media on. And, and dude, I'm telling you, every single channel dedicated to our election.

31:13

And all they were talking about Darren was how Hillary's winning. She's ahead. There's no chance for Donald Trump and they're dissing

31:20

Donald Trump. And they're just sort of selling the narrative and all that. And wherever you're at in the, on that discussion, that's not the point here.

31:25

It's the media itself. Internationally. We're talking to Australian media in their

31:30

Australian accents was talking about Hillary Clinton and she's so far ahead. There's no chance for Donald to win.

31:36

I come home, the election happens and it's, everyone's blown away internationally.

31:41

They go, wait, what happened? We thought we had this. The media is freaking out. They're going, what's going on? And the answer was, you don't control this anymore.

31:48

It's controlled by private people and private companies that are much smaller than CNN and MSNBC and NBC it's, and it's in their pocket.

31:56

Now nobody was listening to you in the first place because it's this little guy over here. It's this little guy over here in Nebraska with his multimillion followers.

32:07

He was actually winning and beating CNN. Like it's that guy that was actually controlling the conversation and you didn't know that.

32:14

And that's the thing I think we have to pay attention to is that you're right, is that now we have the public square in our pockets.

32:20

We have the ability as Christians to communicate the biblical worldview in a better way than the world does.

32:25

And we could do it in an instant. Click of a button. It's like this. You have a studio that can communicate with the entire planet in an instant, literally an instant and live.

32:38

You can live stream in a way that you couldn't do in the eighties from your pocket to the globe, from your, from your backyard.

32:48

You can do that as a single person for $900 in your pocket, $900.

32:56

And I would just add something to that, which is that I just got back on Twitter.

33:01

So I went all on Instagram. I changed that all up. I spent kind of three months back on Instagram. Then I jumped back into Facebook, kind of got acclimated there, jump back onto Twitter.

33:10

So I jumped on, I jumped back onto Twitter and the first three people I follow Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama.

33:18

Okay. First three people I follow you're such a weirdo. Well, but hold on.

33:24

Cause I wanted to see what was happening. Yeah. And all of them, all of them.

33:31

Okay. Forget Donald Trump because we know he's doing a thousand tweets a day. And by the way, that's why he's winning. Yeah. But secondly, if Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama feel it's important to tweet six, seven times a day, that tells you how powerful this still is.

33:50

Yes. And I want to encourage Christians not to, not to think, you know, like, Oh, social media.

33:56

And I don't want you to think, well, there's something around the corner. Don't try to be prophetic here. Just be where everybody is at.

34:03

And when the new thing shows up, just be there and keep doing your work, spreading the gospel, making amazing content.

34:09

Cause every time you do that, literally, the gatekeepers are falling. They are crumbling and we have to be right there at those

34:18

Gates. Awesome. Hey Darren, we just decided today that we're probably going to be Lord willing in a

34:24

Moscow filming some stuff. What'd we say? First week of June.

34:30

First week of June for an abortion now and stuff like that. So hopefully we get to see you and hang out. Yeah. And maybe we'll do a special edition live from the container.

34:38

That sounds awesome. All right, guys, Darren, don't make sure you guys. Check out collision as soon as you can. Darren. I love you, bro.

34:43

I'll talk to you soon. Thank you guys so much. Bye -bye. God bless. All right, guys. That was next week guys with Darren.

34:49

Don't we'll be right back guys. Stay with us. What kind of society will we be responsible for building and what kind of people are we sending into the world?

35:00

Part of our mission in working to redeem culture is to connect with people in various professions, to help them to understand their life and calling as a process of culture building.

35:11

Our work is best demonstrated at the H Evan runner international academy for cultural leadership.

35:18

The runner academy represents a comprehensive instruction in Christian philosophy, worldview, and cultural apologetics.

35:25

This two week course brings students and young professionals on site for a training program like no other history, politics, law, education, medicine, the arts.

35:37

There is a biblical vision for all of these spheres to bring them into obedience to Jesus, the

35:43

King, and to develop them toward cultural renewal to the glory of God.

36:00

I want their faith to not just be something that stands, but something around which culture can be built.

36:07

We want students who can think critically about arguments, but also about the culture around them that can then speak clearly to it.

36:13

And that also have the ability to influence and shape because of the power of their message, because that's really what the gospel does.

36:21

The gospel throws down all the arguments against it. It speaks to the hearts of people. It influences and it changes.

36:32

Welcome everybody to next week with Jeff Durbin. I am Jeff Durbin, and this is Luke the bear.

36:38

And that is joy. The girl right there. If you guys haven't seen sheologians yet or listen to sheologians yet, you should get on that at sheologians .com.

36:46

And, uh, we want to point everybody. Of course, as we started the show off today to end abortion now .com, go there, get connected with your local church, get free resources, get free training and be a part of the mission to save children from death at the abortion mills and, uh, go do it and do it right away.

37:02

So that was a excellent interview we did with Darren Doan. One of our good friends, encourage you guys.

37:08

If you haven't seen collision yet, you definitely need to see collision because it is awesome. I, uh, like I've said,

37:15

I, I, I played that once a month at the hospital for four years, uh, for everyone that came in, they were on a 30 day cycle.

37:23

I had one day where we watched collision and I did it so I could start fights. Not physical.

37:29

Yeah. I wanted people to come in who were atheists and agnostics who were like, I just,

37:34

I had it. Like I had several opportunities. It was like, come argue with the pastor. I just sort of, I just sort of tease them like come inside and fight me.

37:42

And, uh, it was awesome because they did. And I saw so many, so many people come to Christ. But one of the nights that was always amazing was watching collision because people were just silent watching it.

37:52

They were into the whole thing. And as soon as we finished, I would open up for questions and challenges and it always led to amazing conversations.

38:00

So, uh, collision through new eyes, go check it out on Darren Doan's channel. It's incredible. It is awesome.

38:06

There's been some moments where you're just like, just awe inspiring. You're like, yes, how did this happen?

38:12

I know. Seriously. And I think for me, one of my, well, I thought it's true.

38:17

My favorite atheist in history is Christopher Hitchens. I was really sad when he died actually, because, um, he was delightful in many ways and he was so articulate and he was, he was, what did

38:32

I like about him? I think I liked about Christopher Hitchens so much is that the image of God was just constantly pouring out of him because he was so good at, at, at majestic speech.

38:45

And like he would make you, he would make you think and laugh and he did it and he was so skillful.

38:53

Um, and he was, um, he was so good at, at, at rhetoric in many ways, uh, in ways that many

38:59

Christians can learn from. And, uh, I think one of the things that was always entertaining was like, it's in collision when, when

39:06

Chesterton, when the whole thing with Chesterton comes up, we're like, it's so weird.

39:11

They're having dinner together. Chesterton, GK Chesterton comes up. Who knows who that is?

39:16

Almost nobody. Right. I mean, I mean, people that are like people that, people that know like history and people who were like masterful with their language and that are great.

39:27

They know, but like the typical public school educated person today is like who Chester, what?

39:33

Like, um, uh, but it comes up at dinner and here's

39:38

Douglas Wilson and Christopher Hitchens talking and they both just start randomly quoting from memory.

39:45

Quotes from Chesterton and they're laughing. They're like little school girls giggling. They're like, and they're like, he'd throw one out and then, and then

39:53

Hitchens throws one out and then makes Wilson laugh. And he's like, and what about this one? He throws them like, they just, these nerds, these nerds have like all these

40:02

Chesterton quotes. And I think that's one of the things that made Christopher Hitchens like love

40:07

Wilson is that Wilson was so articulate and so educated and it was, it had this master mastery of art and language and, and uh, that's what made

40:18

Hitchens like have such a high level of respect for him. And so like, I think Hitchens for me was like this,

40:25

I think it's, it's because of Darren's movie, um, it made me fall in love with the man so much because as much as he was this atheist, who's a

40:36

God hater and enemy of God and all of us are before Christ, there were these moments where you were just like, and I love him.

40:42

I love him so much. Uh, did you know that he was supposed to debate, um, Dr. White?

40:48

No. You didn't know that? Oh wait, maybe I did know that. You don't know how excited

40:53

I was. Yeah, actually I think I did. Um, Christopher Hitchens was scheduled to debate Dr. White and it was going to be epic.

41:02

Can you imagine Christopher Hitchens going against Dr. White? It would have been the debate of the century as, as Douglas Wilson is a master at, at debate and rhetoric and the

41:14

Christian worldview and presuppositional apologetics. All I get it. He's like, well, he's my hero. Right.

41:20

But Dr. White's Dr. White. And he would have taken Hitchens legs off. And I just could not wait for that moment to like have someone go,

41:27

I'm going to take you and fold you up like laundry and put you away. Right. Like it was just going to be amazing.

41:34

Um, and then he got diagnosed with esophageal cancer shortly before the debate.

41:40

And so Hitchens have of course had a bow out of the debate, but, um, who debated him in his place.

41:45

It was, uh, the head of the American Atheist Society. I can't believe I'm losing it right now.

41:51

Thank you. Seizure. Oh, uh, Silverman. Silver was, yeah. Was it Silverman? I think it was. Yes. Uh, and that debate in God's providence was amazing.

42:03

If you haven't seen it yet, go and see that debates. I've watched that debate probably 11, 100 times and, and it is amazing because here is this guy who's the head of this major atheist organization.

42:18

United States of America is supposed to be so articulate and so strong as an atheist. He, he debating a

42:25

Christian who knows the biblical worldview and knows the situation and his worldview, but in the middle of the debate,

42:32

Silverman's like, uh, like I don't have anything else. I'm, I'm done. Like he doesn't know what to do and he just gives up logic.

42:39

He gives up ethics and morality and all the rest. So it ended up being a great thing.

42:44

But back to the whole thing with collision, collision made me fall in love with Christopher Hitchens and I was so sad when he died.

42:50

I was so sad. It seems like he was just, was a fun guy. Like he was witty. Yes. You know, you have the antithesis of that would be like Dawkins or Silverman and they're just jerks.

42:58

Right. And you just want to punch him in the face. Yeah. And there were moments where people would want to punch something, punch, punch something on Hitchens, something on Hitchens, um, in the debates.

43:10

But yeah, but yeah, but yeah, Darren, Darren did a masterful job of, of taking the, bringing the humanity out of, of, of Hitchens and making you fall in love with him.

43:20

And that's what collision's all about. And that's why you should go look at collision through new eyes. Make sure you guys get to know

43:26

Darren Doan. We love Darren. We love what Darren's about and what he's, what he's trying to do. You should get to know

43:31

Darren and get to know him well. Okay. So there you go. And. Oh yeah.

43:36

I'm going to go first. Yes. Um, I was going to talk to you guys about, uh, a recent episode of Joe Rogan.

43:44

Okay. With, another atheist. It's probably fun to hang out with someone. Yeah. I mean,

43:50

I'd love to kick it with Joe Rogan. Yeah. Tweet Joe Rogan and tell him, and, and tell, and tell him to let's, let's do something where Joe Rogan and I have a conversation.

43:58

Maybe out in the open, not in his little. Yeah. You don't want to get a contact. Yeah. I don't know if I want to be in his studio having a conversation.

44:05

Cause I'm not going to contact. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but so he had, I'm totally blanking on this guy's first name, but last name.

44:13

Trussell. Trussell. Um, he's just like a comedian. He did some stuff with funny or die drunk history.

44:20

Okay. Uh, podcaster. Um, he, for some reason in this episode, he's wearing like a ghillie suit.

44:29

Like I was kind of, I was like listening to it and working and I kind of see it out of the corner of my eye.

44:34

And I thought he had these like very intense dreadlocks. And then I looked and I was like, no, that's not what that is.

44:41

Um, but anyway, so they just like right out of the gate in this episode, they're talking about like, how wouldn't it be just great if people could have like a less literal reading of religious texts.

44:55

And if we could just like take the awesome principles from religion and specifically Christianity.

45:01

And, um, and if people just like, if just living by those principles was enough and we didn't have to like also take all the superstition and bad stuff with it.

45:12

Um, and I just, I don't even have a joke. I just knew that I heard him say these words and I knew that Jeff would want to talk about this.

45:20

Um, he, he's in the middle. So he's, he's, he's going on this little like mini rant about how, about how, you know, the, the

45:31

Bible has just been like written down a bunch of times and it's can't, you know, just all, all very, very easy stuff.

45:37

Um, like just on the nose, like we've answered that a million times over and over again. But then he was like, he basically was like, you know, and it wasn't just that it was mistranslated and written down a bunch of times.

45:50

It was, you know, like it's written down and it's, it's written by known, like people are liars.

45:57

Like men are known liars. And he said, he said to his guests, he said, you know that people are known liars.

46:05

I mean, why do we have courts? Because people lie. And I just thought,

46:13

I was like, I thought he was going to really take a jab at like why we have court. And his answer was,

46:19

Oh, because people lie. Yeah. So humans created court and the law because people lie and we were just trying to get down to the bottom of the thing.

46:29

So what do you have to say about that? What do you have to say about stripping just, you know, the

46:36

Bible of just, and just getting down to those basic principles of love and being a good person. Um, and then what do you think about, uh, why we have court?

46:46

Yeah. Well, obviously I'll just try to be, I'll do a burst here. So, so it's interesting is that you have atheists who want to borrow capital from Christianity in order to make their world work because they're in the image of God, first and foremost, and they can't escape it.

47:00

So they don't want God in their knowledge. They don't want to know them, but they certainly can't abandon the image of God that's in them.

47:06

That's why atheists still go home and kiss their wives and love their children and pay their bills. And atheists get angry and call the cops when somebody steals their car stereo, take you to court.

47:15

Yeah. That's why atheists take people to court and they demand we have court and justice because they know that the world that they, that they profess to believe in isn't the reality and they couldn't live in it if it were.

47:29

um, and so they have to borrow capital from Christianity to make the, to get their worldview going, but they don't want the

47:35

God that makes it all possible. Right. So they want the God, this is amazing. They want the God whose character they need, but they don't want him.

47:45

Right. They want the attributes of God. Right. They want the attributes of God in, in the ways that will bless and affect them positively, but they don't want the attributes of God that infringe upon their delights.

47:57

Right. Right. And all, all the rest. But it's interesting because, um, first of all, all the, when someone brings up an argument, like, well, you know, the

48:04

Bible has been translated and retranslate, mistranslated. And that's where I immediately go as much respect and love me and patience as I can,

48:11

I can muster up. I go, you clearly have not spent 20 minutes.

48:16

Right. In this conversation, because if you had, you would never dare put on public record that argument.

48:23

Right. Um, because it is too easy to take down. Um, and so it just shows, you don't know what you're talking about.

48:29

Yeah. You know, when someone says, I don't, you know, the Bible is put together at Nicaea. Who's going to believe that? It's, I just, I just want to, it's like,

48:36

I, like, do you know what the Council of Nicaea was about? And you know, and what, why would you think that? Um, but, uh, what's interesting is when someone talks about like, well, you know what

48:46

I love about Christianity is I don't love all the old Testament, like law stuff. Like God gave Moses like commandments about justice and courts and everything else, all this crazy law.

48:56

But you know what I love about Christianity is that principle from that guy who was love embodied. And he said like, love, love your neighbor as you love yourself.

49:03

Like, but I don't want all the rest of the laws. It's like, well, he also said that all of the law and the prophets are built upon love for God and love for neighbor.

49:13

So like, if you want the principle that everyone wants as image bearers of God, that you should love your neighbor as you love yourself.

49:21

Well then guess what? You also want every other principle that that led to in terms of like, uh, don't lie to your neighbor.

49:29

Don't murder your neighbor. Don't covet your neighbor's stuff. Don't steal from your neighbor and all the rest.

49:35

And so the whole, even the idea of like, like, like when an atheist says, when atheists decries lying, you just want to stop and go for a second, wait, stop and think about what you're saying.

49:51

You just said, you don't want that God. Yeah. The God who cannot lie. The guy who tells us that lying is a sin and it's an, it's an abominable thing to do to another human being.

50:02

Don't lie. Cause God would never lie. He's not like that. And he made you to not be like that. And when an atheist says, no, there is no

50:08

God. There was no meaning. There was no purpose. All of us are just cosmic bags of broccoli bobbing along the cosmos and everything else.

50:15

Um, but we get really, you know, we need courts because people lie as if it was a problem, right?

50:21

It's, it's like, there's an, there's an elephant in the room and I smell something, right?

50:27

Like you, we all smell it and we all see it. But when the atheist says like, we shouldn't lie and people lie and that's a bad thing.

50:34

It's like you, you realize of course that we all see that you have now left your platform and you're standing on mine.

50:41

Like get off, like scoot, get off my platform. Cause you don't belong here.

50:47

Like this isn't your thing, right? Like it's me that's supposed to come with the puritanical, like indignation, like thou shalt not lie.

50:55

That's mine. It's not yours. Like, what are you complaining about? Like lying? What is lying?

51:00

It's noises coming out of the, out of the hole in, in, in this bags, you know, body like it's noises, right?

51:08

And it's all noises coming from chemical reactions happening in this three pounds, you know, fizz machine.

51:14

Like it's just, it's, it's air and sound. We just evolved our way. Right. Being truth tellers.

51:20

We just evolved our way into a court. Yeah. We were like, everyone's bad things are happening and people are lying about how it happened.

51:27

So we should establish a higher order for who decides what is evidence and what is true.

51:33

And historically that doesn't even make any sense. Like, yeah, that's not the history of courts.

51:40

And they'll say, and they'll say things like, you know, you know, if we just permitted lying all the time, you know, things would go really bad.

51:46

It's like, yeah, because it's God's world, you dingleberry. It's like, it's because that's how it works here in this world.

51:54

And, and, and when people say like, you know, we get really bad. If, if, if you get really bad, if everyone's lying all the time, it's like, you go, well, of course, but you're acting like bad is bad.

52:07

Yeah. Like, if it's like, like, it's like, it matters. Like you've picked an arbitrary thing because you know, there's little huddles of, and communities of people that like to do really bad things.

52:18

Like how about pirates? Like those are communities and tribes collections of Adams that have evolved over time, right?

52:26

In a purposeless universe. And they've determined, well, I know that's your stuff, but it's not your stuff.

52:32

It's my stuff. Like there are people, collections of people that have determined for themselves. We think it's okay to oppress.

52:38

We think it's a virtue to kill Jews. I think it's virtuous to enslave black people. People might say,

52:44

I think it's virtuous to steal people's stuff. Now you're saying with your tribe, Mr. Atheist, you're saying with your tribe,

52:52

I don't think it's virtuous to steal, to kill, to lie, to destroy. I go, well, pick a number friend because there's a whole bunch of other tribes over here that really like to eat other people.

53:03

Right? Like, what's your argument with them? You can't just say, well, I don't really like that because if there's enough of them that overwhelms your tribe, guess what?

53:10

What you like is irrelevant because what they like wins because there's more of them maybe.

53:15

So the point is, is like, what's, what's, who's to say that it's not in this cosmic accident universe where it's just a bunch of Adams banging around?

53:25

Who's to say that what's virtuous isn't a society that just lies to each other?

53:31

Well, I think most people in our society determine on a nearly daily basis that it's more helpful to lie, to lie to somebody.

53:41

Because it benefits me or to benefit somebody I love or it benefits my future or something like, like, isn't it virtuous to have good things happen?

53:50

Well, maybe it would be virtuous to have something good happen to me because I lie through my teeth, right?

53:55

To you. And it helps, you know, what if, what if I think a little white lie to serve my family and my tribe actually helps like the longevity of my tribe through this white lie.

54:10

And I recognize that it's going to hurt you probably significantly or maybe in a little bit, but I recognize that it helps my tribe more.

54:18

And there's more of, there's more people that are going to be blessed because of my white lie. Right. Right. And so that's virtuous, right?

54:25

Isn't it virtuous like to injure you for, for the benefit of more people. And so people think like that.

54:31

So the question is for the atheist, like, do you have an objective standard outside of yourself to stand on to say, because of this, this is an absolute and it exists outside of my taste.

54:44

It exists outside of my feelings, my emotions, my likes, and those sorts of things. It's true whether or not

54:49

I like it. So for example, I say that in kidnapping and enslaving black people deserves the death penalty and is absolutely immoral.

54:59

And I can say that because God has spoken in revelation about his own character and us, and he's given us revelation about what's actually true about that.

55:06

So I have a basis to actually decry slavery. I have a basis to decry kidnapping.

55:12

I have a basis to decry rape and those sorts of things. And it's not something that's just a personal preference.

55:18

It's an objective revelation is standard outside of myself. I have that to stand on. The atheist has nothing, right?

55:24

And there's no complaint, no moral complaint. I would have liked to have asked him. And it kind of ties us into what you're saying.

55:32

You know, if they want to take the basic principles of religious texts, what about the Quran? And, and I'm willing to bet they would say,

55:40

I don't like those religious principles. And that one. Yeah. And again, that brings back to, why? Yeah.

55:45

Well, for, for whatever reason, which is okay. For whatever reason, their, their conversation primarily hinged on Christianity because they're created in God's image.

55:56

Yeah. Mormonism was thrown in there a few times, but I think that's, that's typically because, well, they, they made the statement that like the

56:05

Mormons they know are very nice, good people. And so they were the whole, the whole foundation of their conversation was just like, religion is a good thing that helps people be good.

56:21

And also they tried to make a point about how like we need like humans, like humans need something like larger than themselves and like sort of mythical to create standards of morality.

56:37

The one, the ghillie suit guy was talking about how people go on ayahuasca trips and like a dragon tells them to like, love yourself.

56:46

But if your Uber driver tells you to love yourself, then you're not as likely to listen to him because he's your

56:51

Uber driver. What if he's a dragon though? I know. What if that's Uber's newest thing?

56:57

Yeah. It's dragon drivers, self -driving cars and dragon driving cars.

57:05

Yeah. That's awesome. You like open it up and you get the pick. Yeah. I want the unicorn.

57:11

Yeah. No, that would be genius. Anyway, it was just another example of Joe Rogan.

57:17

Just, I really just wish he would talk to you because he, I know people have tweeted

57:23

Joe. Oh, I know. He's looked at your face at least. I, the thing is, is like Joe and I would have such a great conversation because, because I love him anyway.

57:31

I love his show. I love Joe Rogan's experience. I'd love to, I just agree. It's just great content.

57:37

It's fun to watch. Of course I, I don't agree with everything, but it's fun. He's, he does a great job. So we would have a good time.

57:43

I think we'd have, we'd be friends with each other. Yeah. And we could talk a ton about martial arts. Yeah. And how martial arts in the

57:49

West largely is a joke. And I would have so much to say. Well, part of him about how, how most martial arts today is a sham.

57:58

And it's, you know, it's made it most of his money. Sport, sport, taekwondo and all that stuff is a joke.

58:04

It's, it's, it's all I would be, we would be so close. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's what makes him a good, he's good at interviewing people because you, he has usually makes like multiple points of, so you think like,

58:16

Oh, obviously this guy's on here to talk about this, but then he manages to talk to you about kind of anything, you know, not just your specialty or whatever, but he just, he makes these statements over and over again.

58:29

And I'm just like, just like if someone who knew what they were talking about was there, just anyone, it'd be nice if it was you, but yeah.

58:37

Tweet Joe Rogan, Joe Rogan. Let's, let's talk. Maybe we should just, yeah. Talk about it more and see eventually something's bound to get attention.

58:45

Yeah. I would often wear a ghillie suit, but no, yeah, no. Yeah. If he would let you on the show, would you wear a ghillie suit?

58:52

Uh, probably not. I don't know what they were doing. He was wearing, he was wearing sunglasses the whole time.

58:59

It's probably the marijuana. Well, but he doesn't usually do that. He, they smoke weed like without shame, like on the show.

59:07

So yeah, I don't know. Yeah. If they were, if there was like a theme, it would be a cruel trick or something.

59:13

It'd be a cruel trick if he invited me on the show and then they just hot box the whole thing. Just be like, let's just, let's do it to him anyways.

59:20

And that would be, I just come with like a respirator. Well, there's been people that he's like kind of pushed to.

59:26

I know. Like Alex Jones, Alex Jones, especially he was like smoke up. Yeah. Yeah.

59:33

Yeah. But yeah, yeah. Alex Jones is one thing as Alex Jones, but on marijuana, it's a whole different situation.

59:39

Higher. You can get better. Your ratings. Yeah. Yeah. Goodness. Well, I have a little story here that will hopefully tie this all into the next change of direction in the conversation.

59:52

So I, I just saw this. So George Washington university, which is a, you know, prestigious university named after a famous white guy.

01:00:04

Been there. I competed there. Yeah. Maybe kicked a guy off a bridge. You shouldn't talk about that.

01:00:14

So this university named after a famous white guy, actually that was

01:00:20

Georgetown, which is also probably why don't you, why don't you narrow it down to the most specific location?

01:00:27

That's as far as I got on the street by the church. So they're warning their students and the street not to use terms like lame, insane or gay.

01:00:43

Oh, okay. And again, again, university named after a famous white guy and is discouraging quote, white splaining as it is a form of racism.

01:01:00

Isn't that just, isn't that just the zeitgeist? That's yeah. That's just the culture that we are in right now.

01:01:06

That's we're stuck. We're stuck with it for the moment. So white explaining, white explaining is cutting off someone who is

01:01:18

Hispanic black. Whatever. Someone who's not white in order to, because mansplaining is like when a man cuts off a woman because he's just assuming that she doesn't know what she's talking about.

01:01:37

So like, what are the common things that like white people think that we know that someone,

01:01:44

I would have to, I would have someone tell me like, what, what is it? I don't, I don't know.

01:01:50

Like it does. Does it matter? Is, is the rule that is the rule is the new cultural rule that white people aren't allowed to know anything and explain it.

01:02:00

I think that the rule, the rule with mansplaining is, is if I don't like what you said and then you were mansplaining.

01:02:07

I'm mansplaining too. Yeah. We were talking about this earlier. It's like, it's like within the social justice movement, when you say we're like white people are just an outer darkness where there's weeping and gnashing of teeth.

01:02:18

Like we're just doomed. There's no hope. Yeah. Nothing we can do or say is, I mean, according, according to critical theory, it is such a system.

01:02:26

Like racism is so systemic that we cannot not be racist.

01:02:33

And now that's according to, I know that there are some people who like would use the word white privilege and wouldn't, wouldn't use it in the way that Kimberly Crenshaw did.

01:02:44

But that is what white privilege is that. So critical theory is what critical theory is.

01:02:49

You don't just get to like pick and choose certain parts of it. And then we, like we deal with this all the time.

01:02:58

Like you hear something that at face value, it sounds like, Oh, I know the definition of that, but really that the word has a definition that's backed up by like a lot of history and ideology and stuff like that.

01:03:11

But yeah, so I'm totally blanking on where I was going. What was I saying?

01:03:17

Well, I was hoping to bring us up to get into the discussion of the oppressed and the oppressor. And right.

01:03:22

What was I talking about? I was going somewhere. Well, it's critical theory though. Like we talk about racism, critical theory, people are honest.

01:03:31

They're like, I don't, I haven't a clue what you're talking about. Like what? Right. Oh yeah. I was talking about like the systemic nature of it.

01:03:38

Like you, so you could say, so according to critical theory, this is what it means.

01:03:45

It's not really a matter of you saying like, well, I don't think like my version of critical theory doesn't mean that.

01:03:52

But basically like if you were white, unfortunately you could say like, but I'm like,

01:03:57

I'm not a racist. Like I don't, I have no inclination to treat anyone differently than myself.

01:04:04

And the response would be no, but you are, but you are. Just cause. Yeah. Cause you're color.

01:04:10

And there would be, you know, and I'm not gonna like, certainly I'm not going to make it sound like all critical theorists are just like major idiots.

01:04:18

Like a lot of them would have, many of them would have an explanation as to why they would say that.

01:04:24

But, but there would be nothing that you could, could do. It's almost like it's an inherited type of thing because it's so inbuilt in our society.

01:04:38

But yeah, I mean, so then you will, and you're talking about completely different. I mean, whitesplaining is completely different than a lot of the other like terms that you, that you use.

01:04:50

Like obviously lame is regarding ableism, which is like making fun of, no making fun of someone's level of ability.

01:04:59

So saying lame would refer to someone who's lame or like didn't have the use of their legs, you know?

01:05:06

Yeah. Yeah. And so even though that's not necessarily how someone would mean it, obviously gay is kind of one that people already tackled a long time ago.

01:05:19

I think it was, became pretty unpopular to insane. Yeah. You can't say insane because that is also another form of ableism that it's like abled privilege.

01:05:30

So like if you're a mentally healthy person, like you shouldn't make statements that, that would allude to someone who isn't a mentally healthy person.

01:05:42

And a lot of the, this isn't even, and this isn't, that kind of stuff doesn't even get into like the critical theory realm.

01:05:48

That's more of like an intersectionality thing. And yeah, it's really, it's unfortunately what it is.

01:05:57

And Sheila just did a whole episode about this. We did an episode about like ungracious assumptions.

01:06:04

And this isn't the spin we necessarily took on it, but this is the, this is the wide scale implication of an ungracious assumption, which is that like, no matter what

01:06:14

I say, if I fit into a certain category, like I am being mean to you and I am being hateful to you or I am prejudiced against you or I am intentionally doing something to make you feel bad.

01:06:29

I do also think we live in a highly offended world.

01:06:36

So offended that we can't say things anymore that actually don't mean anything mean.

01:06:45

And that, that is just the, you know, we could get into, I could,

01:06:51

I could reference people needing safe spaces. And I, but there is a, so there, there is a segment of the population that I think is using a lot of the stuff that is like your safe place, like your little man, child, lost boy, whatever, that, that doesn't, you don't really understand.

01:07:16

There went to college and this is what they learned that they needed to be offended about. But you do also have like a pretty educated portion of the population that is fighting for this.

01:07:27

And then also worth mentioning, you have a Christian population that's fighting for this in the name of social justice.

01:07:37

And so, yeah, I mean, it seems silly to police language like that, but it, all of that stuff has to do with like language like that, like you're insane or you're lame would just be a part of like systemic hatred that we have for people that, that oppressed groups would have for oppressor groups.

01:07:58

And we can't allow that. So what should we say? It's definitely more not cool.

01:08:04

I guess. Yeah, I guess like temperature ism. Well, but like, what if you're really not cool? I can't,

01:08:10

I just, what if I just like me and I'm really hot all the time, like right now I'm sweating through my clothes.

01:08:15

Not everyone is cool. Like not, not everyone. I don't even,

01:08:20

I can't, I mean, no matter what, if you want to be offended, I just, I think you will be offended. And, but obviously,

01:08:27

I guess the point I'm trying to make is the intersectionality. There are some people that are just offended out there.

01:08:33

And then there are some people that are, have created like a worldview and the, they really see their identity as being a part of these groups.

01:08:44

And they're actually like, it is their identity that is offended. Yeah. So you're attacking their identity when you say things like lame or insane, or that's a gay, but I don't,

01:09:02

I think it's obviously it's an unbelievable, it's a culture raised in an unbelieving worldview. So first and foremost, it was like an overarching thing.

01:09:09

And then there's, there's also like just, there's all the connecting points, like, okay, but how, and like, what's it look like?

01:09:16

I think obviously public schools that have raised people in liberal ideology and leftist ideology and unbelieving thought, humanistic thought, and just rob people of like biblical ethics and biblical worldview at every turn.

01:09:27

But then you look at like systemically across our nation and just the West in general, you have, you have a generation of people raised by their mommies.

01:09:37

Like father less ness is a big thing. Yeah. But then also you can have people that are father less with dad at home.

01:09:45

And I'm talking about like a dad who's a leader, a dad who knows the truth. Yeah. Dad, who will act like a dad.

01:09:53

And like, so like, so it all, it all, it all starts like every element of all of culture and society begins in this little culture and society called the family, mother, father, children.

01:10:07

Right. It all starts there. What, what? It's funny. I just want to be like, don't you dare.

01:10:12

Yeah. Don't you say that it starts with the father. No, but like what I'm saying is like, there's roles in the home that we've distorted.

01:10:20

And so like the mom and the dad are equal in value and God and look in, in, in the Christian worldview, like unbelievers, you don't get to have this.

01:10:27

This is ours. Okay. In the Christian worldview, men and women are equal, completely equal, totally equal.

01:10:33

Yeah. Unbelievers, you don't get that because there's nothing called equal in a humanist system. Anyway, it doesn't matter.

01:10:39

You're all equally cells, cells and stuff. Like I get to have, I get to have value and purpose and meaning and like equality in the

01:10:47

Christian worldview where men and women are equal as, as image of God. But I also get to have like function and role like purposed manhood, right.

01:10:58

Purposed husband, father, and purposed mom. I get to have in the Christian worldview, like the woman has like spectacular magic powers that the man doesn't have.

01:11:10

And I get to say like, and she's still equal to him. She's not better than him, but she's magical. Like my wife is magical in the way that she is with my kids that I'm not like that.

01:11:21

And I'm not trying to be like that because that's her magical power. And I've got magical powers as a father.

01:11:28

I hope she takes us out of that. She doesn't have, right. I'm just saying, you know what my wife, she doesn't want my magical man powers.

01:11:37

She doesn't want them. She doesn't want them. I'm obviously doing this in as creative a way as I can, but you know what?

01:11:43

Here's the thing. All of culture and society, every aspect of human existence begins there in that little shape, that little bubble of the family, the way that God said it with a mom and a dad and children and children learn like the basic function of like authority, management, respect, role, purpose.

01:12:05

They learn it in the house first, like, And then watch, they move there and it goes into the next stage.

01:12:10

And now they're like, Oh, I'm at my job now. And in my job, now I'm in this next community.

01:12:15

I was just in this one. And what did I learn there? I learned that there's a boss who has authority and I've got to listen to him and her, right.

01:12:23

They're like, they're my authorities and I got to obey and I got to learn to communicate and work. And I've got to learn not to fight because I learned that over here and now

01:12:30

I'm going to do it over here at my job. And then I have to do it over here in school. Like you, you, we have these communities that were first shaped with this first community.

01:12:38

And so the problem is, is systemically you've got now a culture raised by their single mothers who didn't have the father figure there.

01:12:46

And they've got like a sur, a, a, a lopsided, a lopsided growth that with mom, with mom's magical powers that lacked dad's magical powers and all his special things that he was supposed to feed into that loop.

01:13:02

And so you've got this lopsided thing of people who just behave like they were raised by their mommies.

01:13:10

And so what? They're so offended all the time. They're so offended all the time. Like, don't offend me.

01:13:16

Now I know there's more than that. I know that it's also what they're being educated in. You've got all this neo -Marxist garbage and all this stupid humanism and foolishness.

01:13:26

I get the worldview stuff, but I'm saying systemically in terms of its application, you also have a lot of people raised by their mommies and a lot of people who are so easily offended.

01:13:37

But why? Because they're missing their dad. Like, when you look at the difference between how a mom and a dad handle conflict at times, sometimes the dad just puts the hand down and says, stop crying.

01:13:49

Like, stop being offended. This is done, yeah. Like, wipe your, go wash your face. Stop crying about it.

01:13:55

Like, pick yourself up, stand up. And you know what a dad says to his little boy?

01:14:02

He says, act like a man. Stop it. Stop being so easily offended. You need to go be gracious.

01:14:09

You need to go be humble right now. You need to go eat it right now and go say sorry. Like, you've got just a lot of different magical powers that fathers have that mothers don't have and then vice versa.

01:14:22

And they're supposed to work in a beautiful little circle. And you've got systemically all of that being robbed.

01:14:27

And so we have that first community now that's supposed to build up humanity in an effective way.

01:14:33

Now that community's broken. And we've got now tossed out all these broken humans going off into culture and society.

01:14:40

And they're trying to go, how do I work all of this? Oh my gosh, don't offend me. Don't say that awful thing to me. We haven't been taught to think.

01:14:46

We haven't been taught how to react. And it's because our first community's broken. It's broken. When we have no,

01:14:53

I mean, there's a lot of, ultimately, obviously, it's a result of no instruction from a heavenly father.

01:15:00

That's right. There's no, you have people. And this is really where, you know, this is where it is legitimately, it's, and I don't mean sad in so much that it's more of like a pity type of sad.

01:15:18

I'm not saying you should feel overcome by sadness for the sin of sinners.

01:15:25

They are doing it willingly. You know, you don't need to feel too bad on behalf of them.

01:15:33

But you can feel pity for them. But you do see, and it manifests itself in all kinds of extremes.

01:15:42

You see a bunch of people that are attempting to create an identity or a meaning for themselves because they can't deny that they have some sort of meaning even though they foundationally have said that I'm just cells, you know.

01:15:57

But we've sort of moved beyond that because we know that, like, we're people and we can think and we know that we're higher than the animals and, you know, and so we have to find out who we are.

01:16:12

And that is of ultimate meaning to people because that means that's our purpose. That's like why we're here and sort of what our function is here.

01:16:22

Otherwise, this is all for nothing. And so you have people that, unfortunately, because of intersectionality have latched onto the idea that they are like an oppressed, a part of an oppressed group or, and that somebody else is the oppressor.

01:16:45

And so what you get is this victim, you get this victim mentality. And I don't just mean like, like, yeah, people are offended.

01:16:54

And then there are people that, like, they're offended in the way that a victim is offended.

01:16:59

Like something wrong has been done to them and they're looking for restitution.

01:17:05

And we're willing to go to all kinds of lengths to achieve that. Like we're willing to go to the length of saying, nobody in this country is allowed to say this word, which seems kind of silly in and of itself, but it's all done in the name of someone trying to find an identity and live without any sort of objective instruction.

01:17:28

And, you know, that seems, it seems pretty, that one, it seems pretty innocuous.

01:17:34

Like it doesn't seem like that big of a deal. And we almost laugh at, at language policing now because it's become such a normal thing.

01:17:43

But, you know, you have like, and it, you have oppressed groups of people who, who are saying like,

01:17:51

I, you need to do this so that I can be like a meaningful, valuable human being.

01:17:59

But people take that very far. There are women that say like, you need to let me kill my child so that I can be a meaningful, valuable human being.

01:18:09

And if you don't give me that right, if you don't give me the right to be the same as everybody else, then that's not fair.

01:18:17

And you're actually attacking me. I am actually the victim of your oppression.

01:18:24

So, you know, yeah, it's hard. There is a leap there, but, but it's the same principle applied.

01:18:35

And it's important that, that we call it out as Christians. I know that people don't really want to get into the muddled reality of what intersectionality is because honestly, it's about, it's about everyone's opinion of themselves and everyone's opinion of what makes them valuable.

01:18:52

So you're talking about basically, intersectionality is basically everyone's own personal religion where you get to decide the tenets and the doctrine and the every, so it can be hard to talk to people because they're like, oh, well,

01:19:07

I don't believe that, but I believe this, or, you know, this person, I'm okay with you calling me that, but I'm not okay with you calling me this.

01:19:16

But you know, it's worth it and it's valuable. And it's certainly not, it's not loving in this instance to just like let people be who they think they are without God.

01:19:29

They're ultimately, they're lost. And unfortunately, sort of us, like us towing this issue has led to a lot of people that are

01:19:45

Christians sort of adopting this worldview of victimhood.

01:19:52

And the two worldviews, so there's a biblical worldview and there's a critical theory, there's an intersectional worldview, and they can't go together.

01:20:05

Right, that's important, they cannot. Well, that's a big, I think that's a big struggle that our church is about.

01:20:12

It's a fight that our church is about, that churches are about to have. You're gonna have to. They're having and you're gonna have to have an answer to this and know what it's about.

01:20:21

Yeah, you're gonna, because there's no, at this point, we all know that it's around, like, but in some way, shape or form, some term or whatever you've heard of it, or we've heard people talking about racism or sexism or whatever it may be.

01:20:38

But now the issue in a lot of churches is like, is it just like a neutral tool or is it a separate anti -biblical worldview?

01:20:47

Which I would say it's the latter. Yeah, that's right, absolutely. All right, good show?

01:20:54

Yeah. All right, thank you guys for watching. Next, we've got Jeff Durbin, guys. Make sure you guys go check out endabortionnow .com.

01:21:01

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01:21:11

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01:21:16

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01:21:22

That's Luke the Bear. Peace out. That's Joy the Girl. We'll catch you guys next time, right here on Next Week at Jeff Durbin. Thank you guys for watching.