How the Gospel Reshapes Sibling Conflict Resolution | Lynna Sutherland Interview

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Just that idea that instead of saying like, you know, you're not the boss of me I don't have to do what you say, and I'm just gonna whistle and pretend like I didn't hear you

00:08

One way to communicate I do care about you. I care about what's important to you is to stop and talk

00:15

Welcome to truth love parents where we use God's Word to become intentional premeditated

00:23

Parents, here's your host a .m. Brewster. Hey friends. I'm glad you're here for today's special guest interview before we start though I want to clarify something our special guest has an amazing offer for everyone listening

00:35

There are no contests or special requirements to receive today's resource However, the offer is only available until the end of January 2021

00:43

Now though the offer may be expiring soon. The discussion we're about to have is eternally relevant.

00:48

So I hope you all enjoy Welcome to truth love parents.

00:54

I'm your host a .m. Brewster and in the upcoming month I want to introduce you to some of my favorite parenting podcasts

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We have a page at truth love parent comm dedicated entirely to the best Podcasts for Christian parents and if you've ever checked that list out then you've seen

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Linna Sutherland's podcast the sibling relationship lab Well today I have Linna here with us on the show and I'm very much looking forward to you meeting her and connecting with her various ministries and Interacting with her many resources.

01:24

I'm also looking forward to each one of you enjoying the gift Linna has for you today, but we're going to talk more about that more in a minute

01:31

I found the sibling relationship lab a while back when I was desperately searching for some gospel -centered biblically based parenting podcasts

01:39

Although the sibling relationship lab has been live since april of 2019 I only found it in 2020 and I went back and I consumed every episode which is not something that I always do

01:49

In fact, it's very rare when I start listening to a podcast that i'll go back and i'll listen to every single episode But I was so hooked.

01:55

I wanted to do it I found Linna's content to be supremely practical to anyone with more than one child

02:02

But often also to parents with only one child However, most importantly though I found that her content is very biblical and really that's the key

02:11

Linna and I can have our opinions and they can fail you over and over but God's eternal truth will never fail you

02:19

And I love introducing you to people and resources that will submerge you in the scriptures So without any more pontificating on my part allow me to introduce you to Linna Sutherland Thank you so much for having me

02:32

Oh, it's my absolute pleasure. Welcome to the show, please. You have a very special family

02:38

Uh, it's it's probably a little bit different than most listeners listening to us today So please introduce us to you and your family and all of your various ministries

02:49

Sure, so Uh, I have eight children. I guess that's what you're referring to and the fact that our family is

02:54

Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking. I mean most people probably don't have eight. I don't know A little different.

03:01

Yes, but um so, you know, I think when you and I were talking earlier on I was talking about how

03:06

I did the math the other day and You know, if you have like you were saying you have two children

03:12

So you have one sibling relationship dynamic to uh mediate manage in your home and depending whether you're going permutations or Combinations, uh,

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I think with with eight children. It's like 28 different possible connections of relationships going on in the home and so I definitely have plenty of You know opportunity for for working with this but also

03:38

Uh, you know, I went through a period of time in my life where I had a difficult relationship experience uh with a someone outside the family and It really pulled me into a lot of thinking and and praying reading scripture

03:53

Seeking counsel about a lot of relational things, you know, what is what does reconciliation look like apology forgiveness?

04:01

What does that include and as i'm sure you've experienced in your life the things that you are Stewing on in your brain the things that you're reading about the things that you are learning about that.

04:11

The lord is teaching you Flow downhill into your parenting. And so as I began to wrestle with these things in a completely outside different Setting I began to realize oh this this all applies directly to the stuff that's happening in our home every day

04:27

It's not You know crisis. It's not dramatic or shocking. It's just regular christian living with other

04:33

Sinners who have struggles just like we do And um, you know, I have i'm a homeschool mom and I for a long time had blogged about homeschooling curriculum and ideas but I began writing more and more about sibling relationships because um when you homeschool

04:51

You spend a lot of time with each other and if as you said if you have more than one kid Um, you know death taxes and sibling conflict are pretty much the things that you can be guaranteed in life

05:01

And so I found that um, you know There are many wonderful people who write about homeschool curriculum and and tips and tricks and organizing your supplies and all that But I I found that I was able to talk from a unique perspective about sibling relationships and especially

05:19

Because in Aaron, I know you share my heart on this What I want more than anything Is to share jesus with people to be able to talk no matter how i'm talking to be able to talk about the lord

05:32

And I remember one time My childhood pastor said that he loves preaching children's sermons and weddings

05:39

Because you can get away with saying all kinds of things because the audience doesn't realize that you're talking to them

05:45

Yes, and so I feel like the same thing is true about talking about sibling conflict because you know when parents say okay

05:52

My kids are fighting. I need some help And you share with them and you're talking about the gospel and what we've been forgiven and our call to forgive others

06:02

Before they know it. They're like, oh wait, I think that applies to me, too

06:08

I think this isn't just a how to fix your kids methodology Um, and you know in that cycle is exactly what the lord has has designed in parenting

06:19

You know, it's not this i'm the expert. I'm the guru. I'm the adult I've figured everything out and now

06:24

I tell you everything and I fix you and I make you the way you're supposed to be But this is this constant cycle in any, you know in any christian community

06:32

Church or or family or anything where we're all constantly, uh, you know seeing others sin

06:40

Encouraging them to trust the lord seeing it in ourselves um You know and so as we began doing that in our home,

06:48

I thought okay This is something that other moms could benefit from too and dads Um, and so the first thing that I did was

06:55

I created a course for parents called the sibling opposition solution And it's just an online video based course that parents can work through at their own pace to help them understand

07:06

Really the heart dynamics and there's plenty of practical in there But you know, I love what you said in the introduction aaron about how you know

07:13

I could have my opinions and I could give you top 10 ways to blah blah and fix your kids and make this not happen or whatever um

07:21

But that could be just what works for me And so what I really wanted was to help parents to be able to understand what's going on in my child's heart

07:29

What are the temptations or the struggles or the character issues, you know? So that instead of doing what works for me in your home, you can learn more about your own child, you know, and then

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Use that knowledge to just come alongside and disciple them And so then once we had that course up and running go ahead.

07:47

I'm, sorry. No, I'll just say that's fantastic I'm loving everything you're saying. I just I want to sit on all of it. But please go ahead

07:53

Yes, because you've got you you were writing for homeschooling stuff. You're creating courses devotional. So please continue on with that Yeah, so and then that that was the next step was that the course was created for parents and so then parents were saying

08:06

This is so great. Can I show these videos to my kids or can I you know use these lessons with my kids?

08:12

And I thought well, you know these videos really it's not that you know, it's not secret. There's no secret sauce It's all based on the scriptures.

08:18

So you're not going to give away any you know, um Confidential plans if you share it with your kids, but the videos weren't really geared towards kids

08:25

They were geared towards parents. So the devotionals are created for parents to use with the kids so they are written um kind of broadly to You know just for a family to be able to read like on a sunday afternoon or you know family devotion time or something

08:41

And then there's a whole bunch of activities that are included with each lesson at a range of ages so there's all the way from like a coloring page to weekly scripture journaling for older teens to you know

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Look up other scripture references and answer questions and that kind of thing so those are geared for the parents to take the things that they've been thinking about and then

09:01

You know communicate them on a kid -friendly level and it's been Such a blessing to be able to interact in this way because I you know,

09:09

I Truly feel that homeschooling is important and it's good to support parents who are making decisions there

09:15

But it's really hard to escape the eternal import Of teaching parents how to mediate sibling conflict in a gospel -centered way

09:23

Yeah, so with that said tell us a little bit about the the podcast because podcast isn't so much about The homeschooling side of things podcast is just about dealing with those sibling

09:33

Relationships all sorts of them good and the bad and the ugly. So tell us a little bit about that exactly, yeah, and i'm glad you mentioned that because I neglected to mention but I did eventually

09:43

Uh separate out all my sibling content onto a separate site because I realized I was having more opportunities to speak with groups that weren't necessarily homeschoolers

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You know and I kind of wanted a welcome mat That didn't make people immediately feel like they didn't belong there if they weren't homeschoolers.

09:58

So sibling relationship lab is entirely Just a gospel -centered christian parenting content and the podcast also really my focus with the podcast is um

10:11

You know as I said before it's not so much tips and tricks Although I I do think practical is important, you know, if we just stay all in the philosophical realm, it's like okay

10:20

I i'm following you. But what does that look like? Yeah, I I want to do that But I don't know how how to start so it's not that there's no practical

10:29

But my focus really is more. Okay. Let's take a particular issue. Let's talk about lying.

10:35

Let's talk about Technology screen time. Let's talk about when kids say that's not fair or when they say

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I hate you It's not like okay. Here are the three steps that you do to eradicate this problem in your home

10:48

It's more like okay, let's use this as a practice scenario. Let's step back and think about what does the scripture say about this?

10:54

What are the principles that god gives us that we need to bring to bear? And what what it leaves room for there, which god always leaves room for Is wisdom and I know you know from i'm speaking for myself and maybe for you too erin

11:09

I don't know but you know I spent a lot of time earlier on in my parenting saying like why didn't god

11:15

Give me a rule or a list or a step or you know, like why didn't he just spell it all out?

11:20

No, it's just you no one else has ever felt that way. No, okay. I'm the only one. Okay uh, okay, well then i'm just gonna put all my cards on the table here and the rest of you who don't have this problem can just Um follow along for a moment

11:35

So, you know, it would be great if we had this list, right? But the thing is That god is way more gracious and generous and patient Than we imagine and really there are many broad and and uh

11:51

Perfectly acceptable ways to handle a variety of problems So he doesn't say well when your child gets out of bed at night after they've been sent to bed

11:59

These are the six steps and now he says let me tell you about human nature Let me tell you about sin and temptation.

12:06

Let me tell you about Gracious godly discipling and how to speak to someone and call them back on the path um, and so we're we're growing as we're

12:17

As we're parenting we are growing in our ability to disciple and to use wisdom and I think you know

12:23

God never leaves us in a place Where we no longer have to pray and look to the lord for wisdom

12:29

Um, just like in james when it talks about how if anyone lacks wisdom Let him ask the lord who gives generously

12:36

And without reproach and that second part of it is my favorite the without reproach Because it reminds me that god is never you know, when

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I say lord, I'm sorry i'm lost again. Can you help me? He's never going really? seriously

12:50

We just talked about this last week. You need more wisdom, you know, he says yes. I'm so glad you asked

12:57

Here's a lot. Here's more than you asked for um and so You know as we're as we're learning about How to manage the sibling conflict.

13:07

We're also learning about our own hearts and our own um You know our own tendencies in our own, you know, like when you when you yell at the kids stop yelling and then whoops

13:18

Okay, so it's not just them that need to repent It's not just them that need to be willing to forgive when someone else has sinned against you um

13:27

Yeah That's awesome where we're going with this conversation No, this is fantastic because that's really what you're what you're hearing is

13:34

I mean she's introducing what the podcast is about And of course obviously within the course of the podcast we get she gets into a lot more information

13:41

Uh, it's filled with biblical scriptures. It's filled with how to apply that and to teach that to your children

13:46

That's why I love it so much and I love your passion. Uh, you're just going on and on That's amazing. And i'm so glad to finally have you on the show

13:53

We've actually been trying to get this interview going for a while. Um the last date that we planned.

13:58

Um, Just so happened to be the day after my 15th anniversary because you know I wasn't thinking that maybe we'd be driving home from something special which we did it was fantastic It's so much fun and lena was nice enough to reschedule

14:10

But i'm so glad that we finally made this work because I love your passion and I love what you're talking about And like you said earlier, you know, i'm sure that with eight children in your home.

14:18

Okay, your life is preoccupied just consumed with the dynamics and the consequences now

14:24

When I did the math I came up with hundreds but or at least over a hundred different relationships and i'll tell you why

14:31

This child has a relationship with this child And the third one the fourth one the fifth one all the way up to the eighth one but i'm sure you know this but How this child relates to this child is slightly different than how this child relates to these two together

14:46

Or this one and number six together or that one and number eight and then there's how they relate to three

14:51

Or four or you know how they relate to all seven on one, you know The dynamics are I think is probably more than 28 when you start breaking it down like that But I mean literally over a hundred different relationships among those eight children

15:05

With those various siblings, um, and that's what you're trying to negotiate. Like you said, I only have two kids All right, they have that one relationship.

15:12

My math is easy And it's both a joy and a struggle And of course, you know having worked at victory academy for boys.

15:18

I had 14 people living in the home So I really do know well The type of thing you're facing So I suppose in a way obviously

15:26

I don't I don't because you've already said so much of it I don't have to ask this question But there are so many things that obviously could be discussed

15:35

And one of the things I wanted to hear about was why you started the sibling relationship lab as opposed to Focusing your niche along other lines, but it seems to me that the obvious answer is

15:45

Because of all of the unique well Like you said first of all all of the unique relationships within your home that you're dealing with Because you're obviously you might not consider yourself an expert

15:53

But you're definitely someone who has a lot of experience with sibling relationship and conflict But number two you mentioned that you were going through something yourself

16:01

Uh that showed you the important dynamics between in within relationships relationships

16:08

Even I guess within the body of christ. So is that the genesis of the podcast then? Yeah, definitely definitely.

16:15

So I think you know another kind of angle of that too is um, just coming from from I I think we all begin parenting with more of um

16:26

I'm, not sure what the what the word is for it, but a kind of a management model

16:31

Maybe um this I don't know somebody probably has coined that term to mean something else So i'm not referring to anybody else's term.

16:37

I just don't know what a word for that is But I was thinking about this today, you know when we have our first child and this child is a baby

16:45

It's really really hard to wrap your brain around what it means to have a relationship with that child or to Parent in a relational way, right because it's so physical and it's so Decision oriented like well, are we going to bottle feed or breast feed?

17:00

are we going to have cloth diapers or Disposables are we going to do this or that and you know in your what your concept of parenting is like I have a decision

17:09

I get online and I read some blogs and I talk to some friends and read some books and I make a decision and I follow up on the steps of that decision, right and it doesn't matter what the kid thinks

17:19

Doesn't matter at all His opinion doesn't factor into it, right And so we we begin thinking of parenting as this kind of functional decision making we have problems we find solutions we implement the solutions kind of a kind of a thing and and so it can be

17:35

I think Natural not necessarily helpful But natural to fall into thinking of parenting in that same way.

17:42

This person's doing this thing I don't want them to do it anymore. I find a solution. I implement the solution.

17:47

I fix the problem And leaving out the person that's that's there underneath that all and really in the heart

17:54

So when you're talking, I mean, you know, obviously diapers is one thing but when you're talking about a person and their behavior

18:02

It's easy to focus on the outside. You know, I want certain results. I want certain things to happen or not happen

18:09

But really the lord is bringing those things to the surface to allow us to understand something deeper

18:15

Which is the heart and you know, the scripture is full of verses about you know

18:20

Out of the heart the mouth speaks and other things like that that illustrate That when we're talking it's not just something that your teeth and your lips and your tongue are doing

18:28

It's something that your heart is doing And so our instinct as parents really is to kind of take care of the outside And to miss that that underneath piece that heart piece and then you know in that relational dynamic

18:43

See this is i'm gonna jump in here real quick I'm, just so excited that you're saying this because todd freel somebody

18:48

I just had in the show recently was saying nearly the identical thing This is something that we've been talking about on truth. Love parent and this is why

18:54

I said that sibling relationship lab Was a is a fantastic um podcast because in the milieu of of podcasts out there that talk about parenting and sometimes even christian parenting

19:04

They're not talking about this. I was listening to two or three different podcasts people email me all the time

19:09

Review this book review this thing review this podcast and I was listening to the podcast and it was amazing to me how they talked about circumstances how they talked about Chemicals in the person's body how they talked about all these different things

19:21

But they weren't talking about how the person was responding In their heart now, we know that from the scriptures spirit mind heart are these all

19:29

Basically the the same thing how a person is choosing to respond to this stuff And I love the sibling relationship lab not because we agree or you know

19:37

We agree with todd freel or anything like that but that I we're all agreeing because we're rooting what we're saying in god's word and god's word has the answer and you and Parenting behavior and parenting circumstances and the controlling and whatnot

19:50

It never is going to work like reaching a person's heart with god's word

19:55

And I just i'm so glad to hear you say that and I and I love again I love the passion that you bring to each episode that you put out and what you're sharing with us today

20:03

But before we move on I do want to talk a little bit more about that special gift. I told you guys about earlier

20:09

Okay, normally we have a book giveaway, but only one or two people can win those well today every single listener

20:16

Can be a winner. All right I think this is the first time we've ever done this even if you're listening to this in the future

20:21

You can still be a winner. All right So stick around until the end of the episode and we'll tell you about lena's amazing and very gracious offer

20:28

All right now back to the gospel in real life because you know, we haven't been talking about that yet We definitely want to talk about some more.

20:35

We want to get even more practical. Okay I'm sure that all of us would agree. Okay that there's nothing more important than the gospel

20:42

It's what gives us spiritual life. It's what empowers that life, but I think like you mentioned earlier for many of us there's this disconnect between between like the theological concepts the the philosophical pie in the sky and the great by and by when we

20:54

Will never die that those big concepts of the gospel And that everyday experience of our kids relationships with each other our children are

21:05

Often fighting about the bathroom the crayons, uh, the comfy chair in the living room All right toys books time clothes technology

21:13

So here's the question How is the gospel? Supposed to speak into those gritty very maybe unspiritual sounding issues and Really the answer to that question is our focus for today lena and I want to equip you to see how the gospel can completely

21:31

Reshape how we approach and how we handle specifically sibling conflict resolution, but really any and all

21:39

Conflict resolution. So lena, why don't you start us off? Okay by explaining to us

21:45

How you came to realize that the gospel was the only thing that could help you and your children work through their relationship struggles?

21:54

Great question. Okay, so I remember very clearly Aaron there was one day where you know, the kids were fighting again

22:00

I was fed up again I wanted it to end And I was definitely at a phase in my parenting where I viewed the bible.

22:07

I would not have said this at the time I would not have understood this about myself, but I definitely was using the bible more like a weapon

22:13

You're doing something annoying Let me find a verse to hit you over the head with that will show you you're a bad person

22:19

And this is what god says will happen to you if you don't stop it and be nice and you know behave

22:24

Um, and so the kids were fighting so I thought We are going to talk about matthew 18

22:30

Because this is not how you handle problems you go to your brother and you talk about it And if that doesn't work, then you get help right?

22:36

And so I sat them all down on the sofa this was not a Come dear children.

22:42

Let me bring you to the word of god. This is like come dear children. God is you know Just wait till your father gets home, but it's god and so sit down on the sofa.

22:51

Um And so, you know, I i've been raised in a church and I know that when you start a verse with therefore

22:58

You're supposed to go and see what the therefore is therefore, right? You're supposed to read in context And so I thought okay.

23:04

Well, i'm going to be good I'm, not going to just start with that verse that says if your brother sins against you go, you know

23:10

Go speak to him. So we back up and I realize okay. This is a chapter about sheep seeking

23:16

That's what matthew 18 is about seeking lost sheep and um You know, and I I was thinking like this is a biblical process for you know

23:27

Getting justice or getting conflict resolution, and of course that that is there But that's really not the purpose.

23:34

Jesus is saying hey If somebody sins against you that means you were the guy on the scene

23:40

Who saw him go off the path you are the first responder go after him

23:45

And if you can't get him get some help to get him Right, that's what this is about.

23:51

It's not about like settling the dispute over who gets the red cup who gets to win, you know Right, right.

23:57

This is not about personal justice This is about you know, like seeking your brother who's lost right?

24:04

and this is why right after that passage in matthew 18 that we often think about when we think about like church discipline or you know handling personal disputes

24:13

That's when peter says Okay, because he gets the weight of this like this is hard Why do

24:21

I have to run after and love and woo back to christ someone who? You know has sinned against me.

24:28

So he's like so but I mean how many times like seven would that be cool?

24:34

You know and jesus in response tells a story And the story is the story of the wicked servant who was forgiven

24:43

An immense debt that could never have been repaid And then in return wouldn't forgive a small debt to his to his neighbor

24:51

And so it was the first time I ever really saw that chapter As a as a whole unit and the whole flow of what was happening there.

24:59

Jesus says seek sheep. Here's what that looks like You're not kidding.

25:05

It is really hard But let me tell you why i'm still calling you to do that because i've done even more than that for you more than you could

25:11

Ever repay and so as the lord often does, you know I think this is going to be one of those times where I put my kids in their place

25:19

And instead the lord uses this session for me to go. Oh wait Um, I think

25:24

I was the one who got a little bit of a talking to This session as I read as I read this passage with them

25:30

And so, you know, I began to realize and I don't mean like oh it was a light bulb moment And from then on I was a wonderful mom.

25:37

I never did that again Um, but you know that I think that kind of was a milestone and as I began to realize all of these things the red cup and the who sits next to the baby in the car and the

25:49

You know whose turn is it to whatever? In a sense these things don't matter and I don't mean they really don't matter but I mean

25:58

They're almost like object lessons So, you know when you do I don't know math with your kids or whatever the problems that you're solving in the math book

26:08

Ultimately are irrelevant like you're not really going to go to the store and buy 48 watermelons and cut them all in quarters and Right, but why are we talking about this?

26:17

Well, it's just because we have this math concept that we want to learn And so here's a sample of how to kind of work through that and talk about it, right?

26:24

So when they're fighting about the red cup and you're thinking like okay I need now I need a strategy for how to decide turns of who gets the red cup today and who gets the red cup tomorrow

26:34

Which by the way, that's fine. Totally fine to have routines and strategies and keep a chart and whatever Cute things you want to do.

26:40

That's great. Pinterest has lots of fun ideas But what you're really talking about is are we are our priorities out of order?

26:49

right, so like um Calvin would say that the heart is a perpetual idol factory augustine would say that we have disordered loves

26:58

Right. So are we loving? Plans more than people are we loving possessions more than people right?

27:05

And so the red cup just one practice problem on that issue My pastor used to say that he has one sermon that he preaches every sunday

27:14

And it just you know, it's a different different scripture passage or whatever But every sunday the sermon is you know, you're a sinner.

27:21

You need a savior christ is your savior And in christ, this is what you're called to do And so in a sense we have one message as parents right and that message takes lots of different forms

27:32

And we can talk about it in lots of different ways in all the different things that come up But every time our kids fight

27:41

Instead of saying like here's an annoying Inconvenient thing that I just need to get out of the way as soon as possible.

27:47

It's like a jonah moment Right. The lord is saying jonah Go to nineveh preach to the people

27:56

You know, this is not what I wanted to do right now. I was in the middle of making dinner I don't want to go and settle this

28:02

But the lord is calling you these people need to hear the message and this is the time to say Yes, lord, even if you have to be in the belly of the whale for a few days before you catch on This is what you're supposed to be doing

28:15

I've never been in there yet yeah, and what so much of that is is so beautiful because I love the fact that you brought up jonah because jonah

28:25

Had to work sorry god worked just as much in jonah's life as he did in the ninevites And jonah would have thought of himself as being so much more righteous and and better off on his way toward glory

28:34

The ninevites terrible people need to be destroyed anyway But god had just as much work to do In fact,

28:40

I would argue he actually had more work to do because jonah ran god got him whole whale thing, right?

28:45

Whole fish thing, whatever Then he gets there and he preaches and the people repent the people are like whoa

28:51

This is a big deal. The whole nation repents because this jonah's preaching right half -heartedly preaching

28:56

Um, but jonah still didn't get it and then we have all the stuff afterward with the plant and whatnot and you're right We parents are like that so often.

29:04

In fact, we have a have an episode Called parenting like jonah. Um, it's a lot of the same concepts that you're talking about But I love the fact that you're tying this into the gospel that it's not about the red cup and i'm and i'm assuming

29:17

Just from the way you brought that up. This red cup is a very special thing in your household I'm kidding.

29:23

We actually don't have a red cup thing. We use mason jars But I don't know i've heard so many parents talk about kids who are fighting over who gets all right

29:30

Well, yeah, it's a it's a handy illustration. Okay. Well, I know and I get that in our house It's not a red cup um But that's one reason

29:35

I think that parents do a really good job of buying two of the same thing or slightly different ones because They're trying to avoid that Because we as parents so often want to avoid the things that god is putting into our path

29:48

So that we can do the job. He called us to do I was I think I said this recently on another podcast

29:53

But the whole reality of the fact is if our kids were perfect, um, they wouldn't need parents

29:59

They need parents because they are they don't know what to do or because they're going to mess up But it's the actual parenting from which we shy, you know, we don't want any part of it

30:09

Because you're right it involves Not just changing behavior. It involves reconciliation.

30:15

That is the heart of the gospel Reconciliation. Yeah, and I want to go off of something you said earlier about um

30:22

How we approach the kids, you know, you sat the kids down on the couch. Here we go. Uh, matthew chapter 18

30:27

Um so often our parenting because we feel inconvenienced by by the fact that I have to parent right now

30:33

It's me versus you there's a line in the sand if you were just here everything would be okay

30:38

It's all boom me versus you when in actuality It's technically god versus all of us

30:44

We're sinners. All right. We are we run from god. Our our righteousness is as filthy rags.

30:50

And so as a parent Uh to say, you know, not hey you stupid sheep, right like get it get in line.

30:55

What are you doing? It's more like oh, no that sheep is wandering that sheep is going to get lost and hurt

31:02

Bad things are going to happen to that sheep. It's not i'm so mad at you But it's oh no,

31:08

I care for you and I don't want this to happen to you And you bring it in and you say hey, listen, i'm in the same position that you are

31:13

I i'm following the the master shepherd himself and I just want I love you and I want you to be safe And we're doing this together

31:20

And that just that that is the gospel. That's hopefully why we share the gospel with uh with people in our communities

31:27

Not just because my kids. Oh, go ahead. Yeah you know when so When we're in christ

31:35

We have the holy spirit inside of us and we are a new creation And we have the ability to do what god is calling us to do.

31:41

But we also have this Remaining sin nature, right? It's this already and not yet um, and so there's this kind of inner tug of war that's going on and so it's it's

31:52

Understandable that our children sometimes feel like we're against them and you know, even when i'm even when my heart is in the right place and when i'm

32:00

Parenting out of love and out of concern for my child It's still understandable that he or she might think, you know, mommy's just out to get me mommy doesn't want me to have any fun

32:08

You know, and so what I try to explain to my children is i'm not against you I'm on the side of the new emma.

32:14

I'm on the side of the new henry and you and I together are warring against You know the world the flesh and the devil those things that are tempting you or that are causing you to struggle

32:24

And right now you're kind of identifying more with your temptations than you are with who you are in christ

32:31

Yeah, and so it feels like i'm against you, but i'm calling you back I'm calling you to be who you are in christ who christ has made you to be

32:40

Yeah, I love that. We use something similar in our home the You know, you're you're a new mica

32:46

But you're acting like the old mica, but we're to put to death the old the old man, right?

32:51

We're supposed to deny the the flesh and yeah, I love the way you put that So let's get nitty -gritty so much of this has been about us as parents

32:58

Right coming at this the right way because if we it's not just about okay If I use the gospel

33:03

I can solve my sibling, uh conflict issues It's if I understand the gospel i'm going to approach the sibling conflict issues in a completely different way

33:13

Uh, and again, if you only have one child, okay, if you're listening today Well, you're watching on youtube and you're like I only have one kid

33:19

It's the exact same thing the exact same gospel that's going to help your kids reconcile It's what's going to help you and your spouse reconcile you and your child reconcile.

33:28

It's all the same thing But let's just uh, it really kind of kind of like as a as a capstone to this whole conversation before we wrap up here

33:35

Let's talk a little bit about something, you know specific i'm talking to this children. I've got my heart right?

33:40

Okay, i'm understanding how the gospel plays into this There's a million things that can be said to a million different kids using a million different metaphors and illustrations and whatnot

33:49

But what are the what are the main? What are the main seed thoughts?

33:54

That we should be kind of casting out there when we're trying to help our children reconcile with each other

34:02

Okay, so i'm going to back up a little bit erin and i'm going to say that When our children are in conflict, uh, it's usually not the best time to teach them big ideas

34:14

Um, just like just like we know about test anxiety. Yeah When you're anxious, uh, your brain is not in a frame of mind to do its best learning and its best

34:24

You know storing away of information retrieving stored information so What we really have to do and this isn't to push back at you at all

34:32

But just for those who are listening and thinking through this What we really have to do is we have to focus on teaching in times of non -conflict

34:40

Definitely and so so that when when it's a moment of conflict, it's not like oh

34:45

We've never talked about this before but let me bring up this whole little mini sermon That you know i'm gonna unleash on you to try to fix you and to try to make this problem go away rather we need to be in the habit of you know having these conversations at times when it's

35:02

A their brain is not in fight or flight mode and b it's theoretical, right? So if if I start talking to you right now about you need to love your sister more than things

35:14

You know If I agree with mom, I don't get the red cup So yeah not interested

35:20

But if you're talking about it in theory, you know Like you're having family devotions or you're just driving to walmart or whatever and you're just having these conversations.

35:27

Nothing's on the line They're not threat, you know, nothing's threatened by listening to mom and agreeing with mom and absorbing what she says um so, you know

35:37

A lot of these conversations happen at other times and then in the moment of conflict a lot of what we're saying is the same

35:43

Thing it's the same ideas over and over, you know, like I said before you kind of have one sermon but a few things that we want to think about are

35:52

It kind of comes down to Are you loving? Things more than people are you loving, you know your own plans or your own agenda more than people?

36:01

Um, were you handling that in a way that showed that you cared about the other person's needs?

36:08

There's a scripture verse that we talk about all the time look not only to your own interests But to others interests, you know consider others more significant than yourself

36:17

And I think that's often what it comes down to it's not wrong To want something or to seek to have a turn or to you know, get a get the toy or whatever

36:25

Those things aren't wrong But we don't seek our own good at the expense of others And so one of the rules that we have in our house to help facilitate that is called stop and talk and so um, you know if if uh, let's say one child is whistling and another child says

36:42

You know, i'm trying to read stop whistling Well, you know our children don't have the authority to command each other

36:47

So when one child says stop whistling the other child doesn't necessarily have to obey the way that you might you know

36:53

If a parent gave an instruction, yeah, but what I tell my children is you must stop and talk

36:59

So even if you aren't compelled to stop whistling just because someone told you to you still need to communicate

37:05

I care about you and your interests and your concerns are important to me And the way that you do that is by stopping what you're doing at least long enough to have a conversation about it and so you might say

37:18

Um, you know, oh, okay. I'll go in another room and whistle or oh, yeah I didn't know you were reading

37:23

I can stop whistling or you know, if it's the kind of situation where it's like Okay, this person is having a really bad day and they're not you know, they're getting really irritated about little things maybe we need mom to help us sort this out or something, but just that idea that Instead of saying like, you know, you're not the boss of me

37:39

You don't have to do what you say and i'm just going to whistle and pretend like I didn't hear you One way to communicate

37:45

I do care about you. I care about what's important to you is to stop and talk In you know situations when someone's upset with you

37:53

And that goes right back to what christ did for us he forgave us but we're not willing to forgive other people Uh, he stoops he condescends to us

38:01

But we're not willing to stop in that moment and have an honest, you know age appropriate conversation with somebody

38:07

About what they just requested and that's it's so beautiful. It's so easy I love what you said about you know, having those conversations in low

38:13

Low tension times so important we refer to them oftentimes as touchstones. You've laid that foundation

38:19

You could hey remember that conversation we have when we talked about the best way to handle this And they're like, oh, yeah, and I remember agreeing to that and saying it was a good idea.

38:28

Yeah Yeah, it's so much better that way And let's be honest There isn't a single experience or relationship or opportunity in our lives that doesn't require the gospel

38:38

Okay, we can never hope to navigate anything in this life without knowing understanding and believing the gospel

38:46

Okay, and we're certainly going to be better parents when we are actively working to guide our children to better know understand and believe the gospel whether this is in sibling conflict resolution or fighting temptation like you said or Eating in a way that pleases the lord or choosing your friends.

39:03

It's all going to require that lena Thank you so much for your time today. I want all of you my listeners to connect with you

39:09

And the sibling relationship lab, so please tell us the best way to do that Sure, well the podcast is available on all the normal places you'd find podcasts sibling relationship lab

39:19

You can also find the episodes and other articles on the website siblingrelationshiplab .com

39:25

And we're on facebook and instagram as well as sibling relationship lab. Yeah, pretty easy to find I appreciate you keeping them all consistent like that And siblingrelationshiplab .com

39:35

is where you're going to find your wonderful gift Okay, lena is offering graciously offering all tlp listeners 20 % off of her sibling investigations

39:45

Devotionals now earlier today. I purchased and I downloaded my copy of the sibling investigations devotionals

39:52

And i'm really looking forward to working through those devotionals with my kids I've already perused it and i've already gone through what she said about like the age appropriate

39:59

Different not assignments, but age appropriate projects and whatnot that go along with it. She's not kidding

40:04

It's crazy like there's there's one lesson and then there are like 12 pages one page each of like if they're this age or if this if this would be better for them or if this would be better for Them i was like wow, the diversity is fantastic and that's totally thinking like a homeschool mom of eight kids

40:18

Where she wants to teach the same concept to kids from you know, two years old up to 18, right? So it really but she's offering 20 % off of that those devotionals

40:29

So in the description of this episode is a link that will take you not to siblingrelationshiplab .com

40:35

But to a page at truthloveparent .com On that page, it'll tell you everything you want to know about the devotionals

40:41

And that's also where you're going to find your coupon code. We're not going to reveal it here You want to go to truthloveparent .com?

40:47

Follow the link in the description and you'll be able to find out about those devotionals and the coupon code

40:52

And when you're ready to purchase the devotionals you click on the link on the page Okay.

40:58

Now this is very important Yes, you can go directly to linda's website and download the devotionals using the coupon code that you'll find at truthloveparent .com

41:05

But if you use our link to her website tlp will actually receive a commission off of your purchase

41:11

That's right. Lina was generous enough to allow tlp to join her affiliate program, which is super cool

41:17

So if you use our link to redirect you to siblingrelationshiplab .com You will bless your family with these devotionals

41:25

You'll bless the sibling relationship lab and lena and you'll be blessing tlp and as i've said this before it's a win for everyone

41:32

So from there you select the devotional option you want and during checkout All you have to do is use the coupon code that we have posted at truthloveparent .com

41:40

Again, that link is in the description and I hope every single one of you will take advantage of this resource You don't have to share anything on facebook.

41:46

You don't have to do anything like that. Everyone can be a winner today So lena, thank you so much for your podcast for your ministries for your resources and again

41:55

Thank you for offering this gracious discount I am really looking forward to working through the devotional with my kids and i'm also very much looking forward to your next episode

42:03

Thank you very much. So thank you for having me today Now as always please subscribe to tlp if you haven't done it yet and add the sibling relationship lab to your listening lineup

42:13

And then share this episode on your favorite social media outlets So other parents can be introduced to lena sutherland

42:18

And if you need specific help for the sibling relationship battles in your house Please don't ever hesitate to write us at counselor at truthloveparent .com

42:27

or call us at 828 -423 -0894 And I hope you'll join us next time as we open god's word to discover how you can parent your children for life and godliness