Unveiling SURPRISING Connection: Evangelism and F.B.I. Hostage Tactics!

These thinkers, including Chris Voss, as well as myself, represent an important kind of philosophy when it comes to effective communication.

It's not reason, it's emotion. There's no such thing as reason. Bingo! Because it's going to look, on the outside, like a skeptic or an atheist giving some kind of principled pushback.

Take a look at these particular biblical passages. Do you see a pattern? People are driven by the same sorts of decisions.

How does this affect my future? What am I at risk of losing? How does this affect my identity? But now I make the joke whenever I teach first aid evangelism to Christians that they are essentially learning how to negotiate with terrorists because the principles all track along the same path.

Welcome back to a unique kind of video, probably one of the most unique so far on this channel.

I've reacted to some interesting conversations, Jordan Peterson versus Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens and Doug Wilson, even

Peter Boghossian and a reporter on Woke Ideology, but this one has to be up there as one of the most unique.

Why do I say that? Because I'm about to use an interview with an ex -FBI hostage negotiator talking about his tactics in negotiations to terrorists and connect that to Christians and how we should share the gospel effectively.

So stick with me. If you're new here, welcome. My name is Nate and you're watching Wise Disciple, where we're helping you become the effective

Christian that you were meant to be. Before I jumped into this ministry, I was a debate teacher and I formulated a signature method of communicating the

Christian faith called first aid evangelism. You should definitely check that out on this channel as well.

A crazy thing in the kidnap business. We used to get asked by FBI leadership, when is this going to be over?

And the answer would be when the bad guys feel like they've gotten everything they can. Now dissecting that statement, you're talking about when they feel like they got everything they can.

So the key to kidnapping negotiations are the feelings of the bad guys. We're talking about feelings, kidnappers feelings, which drives everything, doesn't matter what human endeavor it is.

So let me start off with something I usually do at the end of videos, which is, let me tell you about a couple of books to read if you want to go deeper in this area.

The Righteous Mind by Jonathan Haidt, Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman, and A Treatise of Human Nature by David Hume.

And that last one's a maybe, if you can get through some dry reading, because Hume is definitely dry, then check out

Hume's book there. Now, why do I say that? Because these thinkers, including Chris Voss, as well as myself, represent an important kind of philosophy when it comes to effective communication that very few people today, in my opinion, neither appreciate nor articulate.

It's funny because I was just watching the exchange between Alex O 'Connor and Michael Jones on whether or not

God sends people to hell. Did you see that one? Which is a very interesting question to think about. I thought it was a fascinating dialogue.

And, you know, maybe this is a video for another time, because the answer is, yes, God does send people to hell.

But it's certainly not the last thing to say about people going to hell by any stretch, okay? But in the exchange, they spent time talking about this, about how emotions are all wrapped up in human decision -making, which, in turn, influences beliefs.

That should put everyone on high alert, if you think about it. Christians and non -Christians alike need to recognize the influence of their own emotions on their decisions and on their beliefs.

That also means, if we want to be better Christian communicators, then we need to understand the power that emotions really have on human beings.

So let's lean in and pay attention. It's not reason, it's emotion. There's no such thing as reason.

So I'm thinking about whether to respond to that right now or come back to this later. But if you missed it, Voss just said, there's no such thing as reason.

I should say, for a little bit of context, I just talked yesterday with a guy named

Sam Harris. I don't know if you know Sam. And because I was preparing for a conversation with you,

I talked to him about empathy versus reason. And he lands heavily on reason.

Empathy is somewhere between useless and erroneous and leads you astray and is not effective.

Reason is the only way forward. And Harris represents a very western,

Greek, perhaps platonic philosophical attitude when it comes to emotions and reason.

And that is, the passion should be the slaves of reason. As a matter of fact, it's funny, in one of Plato's writings – well, it won't be funny if you're a woman – but in one of Plato's writings, he says that a man who is mastered by his passions will be reincarnated as a woman.

And so the goal is to live your life letting your reason master your passions. But is this the way things work in reality?

No. Jonathan Haidt calls this the rationalist delusion. This is just not how human beings work at all.

Some fine lines there. The two fine lines I would draw is, first, what is your definition of empathy?

And secondly, how do people actually make up their minds? And I'm going to flip it.

I'm going to go with how people make up their minds. You make up your mind based on what you care about. Period. That makes reason emotion -based.

This is what social science is showing us today, ladies and gentlemen. We make decisions based on what we care about.

Now, let me say this in a Christian way. You and I were created to be the intersection of intellect and emotion.

And emotions play a huge role in decision -making and beliefs. The Bible has all kinds of passages that reflect this.

This is a slide that I tend to show in talks that I give on First State Evangelism.

Take a look at these particular biblical passages. Matthew 15, John 3, Proverbs 23,

Proverbs 18. Do you see a pattern? Look what it says, Matthew 15.

For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adultery, sexual moralities, thefts, false witness, slanders.

John 3. And this is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light.

Proverbs 23. Do not speak in the hearing of a fool, for he will despise the insight of your speech.

Does it say that he will logically debunk your speech? No, he will despise it.

Proverbs 18, 19. A brother offended is harder to win over than a strong city.

I'll say it again. We were created to be the intersection of intellect and emotion, and emotions are all wrapped up in our decision -making and beliefs.

Is there, with Al -Qaeda or in general, is there a language barrier too? It could be just barriers of different communication styles.

I mean, you got like a New Yorker way about it. That might make somebody from like,

I don't know, Laguna Beach uncomfortable. Do you feel that language barrier in communication, that language and communication style in itself creating a barrier?

John 3. You got a barrier when you think that your way is the way. Sure. That's the biggest barrier.

Yeah. Like, and that happens all the time. So I don't want to move past that too quickly. As a matter of fact, let me play that one more time.

Listen closer. You got a barrier when you think that your way is the way. Sure. That's the biggest barrier.

Yeah. So there's the obvious way that this could be understood, but there's another way as well.

What it really shows us is there are two barriers, your barrier and the other person's barrier.

This reminds me of something Mortimer Adler said in How to Speak and How to Listen. So maybe that's the fourth book to read if you're keeping track.

But Adler said this, your listeners may harbor prejudices or suspicions about you that constitute obstacles to be overcome before positive persuasion can begin.

In other words, when you communicate to someone, particularly in those initial first encounters, you have obstacles to overcome.

These are prejudices or suspicions that the other person has about you. Now, let's bring it back to Voss here.

Voss says you have a barrier when you think your way is the way. I take it that he means that when someone perceives that you are pushing for your way, their suspicions about you will not disappear and you will not be able to overcome that obstacle to begin positive persuasion.

Does that mean that you can't ever hold to certain axioms or truths or beliefs about the world?

No. It just means that your approach should not be perceived as you pushing for your way.

Why is that? Well, let's find out. And that happens all the time. When people talk about, what about cross -cultural negotiations?

You know, what hand do I got to shake hands with so that I can get my way?

Well, if you strip it all down, we're all basically the same blank slate when we were born. Everybody's got a limbic system.

Everybody's limbic system works pretty much the same way. People are driven by the same sorts of decisions.

How does this affect my future? What am I at risk of losing? How does this affect my identity?

Bingo! Did you catch that? People are seeking to make decisions based on what they care about.

And they care about how they're going to live, what their future looks like, and their own identity. So when you as a

Christian get into a conversation with a non -believer and you act like an AT -AT, you remember

AT -ATs in Star Wars? They're those like huge metallic four -legged vehicles that stomped on everything.

Then you're not going to be very persuasive because the person that you're talking to and what they care about is going to feel threatened.

Why? Because you're pushing for your own way that affects changing their cares in some sense.

You're a kind of kidnapper, you're a New York City businessman, you're a tobacco farmer in the

South. All making those same decisions based on those same things. So as soon as I start to navigate that and I tailor my approach, which is what empathy is, to what you think, how you see things.

So I can be the biggest goofball ever from if you live in the

South, yeah, maybe I'm a New Yorker or I'm somebody from LA or somebody from Chicago.

But my geography is foreign to you, but as soon as I start dialing in on how you see things, suddenly you're listening.

As Christians, this is not a good thing. So don't hear what I'm not saying, but everyone has a feeling deep down that they are master and commander of their own ship.

That they are the ones who are in autonomous control over their own lives and over their own destiny. When you come in with one agenda, which is to disrupt that, you have to understand that the person that you're talking to is likely going to immediately recognize that and respond by hunkering down on what they care about.

And you won't be able to change their minds. Now, there's almost always exceptions to this rule because what

I'm talking about right now in terms of communication is much more proverbial in nature, okay? You may find that you talk to someone on the street, a total and complete stranger, and you give the gospel in 60 seconds and they're on their knees weeping ready to give their lives to Jesus Christ, right?

But even then, I would argue that you probably met that person at a time when they were ready to let go of some of the things they care about in order to latch on to new cares, in order to change their identity and change their future.

They were ready going into that conversation in the first place. But this is not typically the case. And so we as Christians need to be aware of the emotional response and navigate that properly because it's going to look on the outside like a skeptic or an atheist giving some kind of principled pushback or principled response to your

Christian convictions. But it's not a purely intellectual exercise. That's the whole point.

Emotions are all wrapped up in this kind of thing, which means that there is a way to communicate effectively to folks that navigates human emotion and respects it and uses it for better, more persuasive conversations.

What about the three voices you talk about, the different voices you can use in that communication? Right. The assertive voice, direct and honest.

How has assertiveness, the assertive voice served you in negotiation? Poorly. The assertive voice is almost always counterproductive.

It feels like getting hit in the face with a brick. So when we do our training, typically we do an exercise called 60 seconds or she dies.

And I play the bad guy bank robber and I ask you to be the hostage negotiator.

And your job is to, I'll give you the four real world constraints. And then you're going to try and negotiate me out of the bank.

Now we're doing this. Now, the first voice that I always use in that exercise is the assertive voice, which is the commanding voice.

It's the voice that all police officers are taught to use in the street. Issued loud and clear commands.

You know, it doesn't, to me, I don't feel like I'm attacking you. I just feel like I'm being direct and honest and clear.

You on the other hand feel attacked. Now we're doing this exercise in Austin. This is important.

So stick with me years ago. The first participant has an Apple watch on. He tells us afterwards that sitting still, not even answering when he first gets hit in the face with the assertive voice, his heart rate jumped to 170, which is a typical fight or flight reaction.

I come at you like I'm fighting you. Your fight flight mechanisms all kick into gear, which clouds your thinking.

You're automatically dumber in the moment. So if I want to make a great long -term deal with you, highly profitable,

I'm agnostic to you being profitable. You'd be profitable, well that's fine. I'm here to make money for me.

Me making you dumber will always hurt me. Me making you feel attacked will always hurt me.

But the inverse also works to your advantage as well. So a couple things. First, if this is your first foray into a discussion like this, especially on my channel, you probably should have started not here unless you're super engaged in tracking everything quickly.

You should probably start with the first several episodes of my First State Evangelism series because that's going to bring you up to speed in terms of this discussion.

The second thing I want to say is I know that there are a contingent number of Christians out there who watch something like this and say, this is utterly unnecessary,

Nate. I don't need to do any kind of work to tailor my language and try to be more persuasive in my speech.

The only thing I need to do is share the gospel or, I don't know, quote God's word to non -believers and God takes care of the rest.

And to that I say, you clearly do not believe that. I call shenanigans on that one.

Why? Because if you really truly believed that the only thing on your shoulders in terms of your responsibility here in the area of sharing the gospel is literally saying certain words, that's it, the words of scripture, then you must admit that you believe there's nothing wrong with eating a raw onion and then walking up to someone cold and screaming the gospel to them at the top of your lungs so that the spittle and the onion breath just flows out of you and onto the other person's face.

You have to admit there's nothing wrong with that because you think that the only thing on you is just to say certain words.

That is not true. The Bible makes it abundantly clear that when you speak, you should do so with gentleness and respect.

That's 1 Peter 3 .15. You should speak with grace and use wisdom towards outsiders, sprinkling your words with salt.

That's Colossians 4, 5, and 6. It's all over the place in the Bible, actually, how you should conduct yourself when you talk to people about the

Lord. Does that mean that you have the ability to determine someone's salvation? No, that doesn't mean that.

That's the Holy Spirit's job. We acknowledge that as good Christians, but that does not mean that you're off the hook in the way that you speak to people, particularly non -believers, about Jesus Christ.

So, that means, yes, you do have some responsibility on your shoulders to tailor your words in a manner that is both winsome and persuasive.

But if you've been noticing, a lot of this tracks along the lines of just simply being a decent human being.

You know what I mean? Of being someone who is tremendously interested in what the person you're talking to cares about and making that important as you navigate your conversation with them.

So, this brings me back to my inverse comment. It's not just that your goal is to avoid making someone else feel attacked.

That's what Chris Voss just said. The fact is, if you make the person you're talking to feel cared for, you're listening to them in a manner that shows them you care about them, and then you get them to the point where they feel like you care about them, then you have traveled well along the first two steps of the proper order of persuasion.

Because when someone trusts you and they feel like you care about them, they're going to start to care about you and what you think.

And that's when you can start to talk about what you care about, which is your gospel message. Amen? You can start to talk about what is important to you.

And that's when minds can be changed. For the sake of the gospel, Nate? Yes, even for the sake of the gospel.

Is the Holy Spirit the one who takes credit for all of that? Yes. But are you participating well in the

Holy Spirit's activity in the midst of all the injunctions that you are given in the scripture? Also yes. That's why we all, especially as Christians, need to understand about human emotions and how they play a significant role in decision making and beliefs.

Do you see some of the techniques that you talk about as manipulative? Manipulation is whether or not

I'm trying to exploit you or hurt you. Am I trying to manipulate a bank robber into letting me save his life?

Yeah. So manipulation is like, what am I trying to do to you?

Yeah. But you don't see the negative connotation. If you're trying to bring a better future, it's not manipulation?

It's not if I'm trying to bring a better future, if I'm being genuine and honest, like, I compliment you.

Yeah. If my compliment is genuine, that's not manipulation. But if I think, you know, you got a pair of shoes that are the dumbest looking things

I've ever seen. And I go, wow, those are great shoes. No, that's manipulation. This is one of the most asked questions that inevitably comes up after going through something like this.

So when I go around and teach First State Evangelism, and by the way, I've taught First State Evangelism since putting that together back in 2017.

It's hilarious because I never knew about Chris Voss, but he wrote his book around the same time.

And I didn't find out about Voss until his master class came out on Apple, which was just a few years ago.

But now I make the joke, you know, like whenever I teach First State Evangelism to Christians, that they are essentially learning how to negotiate with terrorists, because the principles all track along the same path.

But it inevitably comes up, Nate, aren't we being manipulative in advocating for this kind of persuasive speech, in advocating for this way of talking to people in order to share the gospel?

And my answer is exactly the same as Voss's. It's not manipulation if you're just being a genuine human being.

Just think about it. What is entailed in being persuasive? If this is your first video, or if you know more about First State Evangelism, what is entailed?

What is entailed to track along the proper order of persuasion? You know what's entailed? Caring about people.

Putting the emphasis and the focus on them and learning about them to discover what they care about. And actually seeking to understand and empathize with them.

Now, do you as a Christian want them to change their beliefs about God if they're a non -believer? Yes! But what is manipulative about spending time with someone, putting the focus on them, learning about their lives and what they believe, and asking them questions about those beliefs because you genuinely care?

That is the thrust of First State Evangelism. That's where I think First State Evangelism tends to stray, actually, from Voss's technique.

But the point remains. Maybe that's another video for another time. The point remains. Isn't this just being a decent human being?

Do you have a conviction about the world that you wish your friend would share? Yes! But that also makes you a human being.

And asking questions to flesh out worldviews and seeking justification for those worldviews is not manipulation, in my opinion.

I think it's pretty upfront and above board in terms of what the other person is perceiving you doing.

Now, could you pretend to care about someone in order to get them to become a Christian? Sure. But that's not what

I'm advocating for here. That's not what Voss is talking about here. That's not what the Bible teaches you to do.

And that's not what Jesus would have you do. So to do the kinds of things entailed in being persuasive, if you are genuine, it's not manipulation at all.

Well, that's all the time that I have for this particular video. This was fascinating. I love the discussion.

I love hearing about FBI hostage negotiations. I encourage you to check out the whole interview.

I'm going to leave the link for that in the notes below. But what a cool opportunity to think through what

Chris Voss's negotiation tactics can teach us about sharing the gospel with non -believers.

What do you think about persuasion and how it applies to the gospel? Is there a relationship there?

Is there not? Let me know in the comments below. As always, I hope that something in this video blessed you and got you thinking.

And if you stuck around long enough, I would really truly appreciate it if you liked and subscribed to the channel.

We're just trying to get more and more people aware of what I'm doing here at Wise Disciple. I'm very grateful to you for continuing to watch.

Definitely take a look at those book recommendations for more on this subject. And if you haven't yet, go back and look at my

First Aid Evangelism series. It's definitely going to unpack some of these things further. As always, I will return soon with more videos for your consideration.