Apologia TV : The Christmas Edition

Christmas, the Incarnation, and Why Christians Celebrate It

Welcome back to Apologia TV. Very, very special time of year for us, Apologia Church. We love Christmas time.

We do.

We love it.

We do?

It's the best.

Yes.

We absolutely love Christmas time.

Oh, is that what?

We love Christmas time. At Christmas time, we love Christmas time in July. We love Christmas time in January.

We've had that tree up since October.

We sure have. We sure, you're not alone.

It's probably got spider webs on it by now.

You're not alone. And I love it. If it wasn't for me, we'd have it up all year long. And we have a beautiful fireplace going right now. So just kind of make the atmosphere nice and cozy. And so we're back.

That's the lady. That's King Ginger. That's the bear. I'm the ninja. This is Apologia TV. You guys can get more of our television shows, of our after shows, our radio program at ApologiaRadio .com. A-P-O-L-O-G-I-A Radio .com.

That's where you guys can go get all the past episodes. Go to YouTube and check out Apologia Studios. You can see all of our ministries, videos, works, and sermons, and on the street, evangelism, lots of stuff for you guys.

So let's do Christmas today.

All right.

And it's weird because I love Christmas.

I think you mentioned that.

I know, I did. I might say it a few more times this episode, but it never was a problem for me. I became a Christian later in life and it was a problem for me celebrating Christmas. Christmas is just awesome.

I mean, in my mind, God becomes a man and he's a little baby and he comes to save us of our sins. And that's something that is to be celebrated.

Yeah.

Yes.

It's awesome.

Absolutely.

And it's interesting because people will always, I mean, this is like the time of year where you just see hostility and Christians have very rigorous commitments.

Starbucks is taking Christmas away from us.

Yeah. Yeah.

Like whatever his name was.

Yeah.

They're buying red cups.

Like the whole thing like...

It's a conspiracy.

And coffee that says Christmas blend.

Yeah.

All over the store.

Maybe it's like really bad coffee and they're just like, this is a Christmas blend. Where our elves spit in it before we give it to you.

They're liberal elves.

It's made of real bits of coal.

So uh...

It's ground up coal.

But this is the time of year where like, you know, if you're a Christian and you post something like, Hey, we had a Christmas party, Christmas celebration. There are other, you know, believers who love Jesus that will say, you know, Christmas is pagan.

It's, you know, it's, it's demonic. You're celebrating a Roman Catholic holiday, that sort of a thing. And it's just weird to me because it just seems so obvious and they pulled the questions about winter solstice and it's a pagan holiday and that's where it all comes from.

Like, don't you see that the Christians, one, like, you know, winter solstice, who celebrates.

That anymore?

Nobody.

Like you're not in the ball hearing songs about winter solstice.

I think you have like a group of like atheists that live with their moms and then they get together and go, let's have a winter solstice.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

That'll show the Christians. We'll take over Christmas.

But think about it. We walk, this is a perfect time of year for evangelism because you go into any mall in your city and they're playing songs about Jesus all over the entire mall. I say we win. And it's a great time of year where you turn your radio on or talking about Jesus, singing songs about God becoming a man.

You go to the store and you listen to songs about Jesus and we're talking about giving gifts. Why are we doing that? Because God gave us the gift of his son. I say that's a good thing.

Yeah.

We should promote that like crazy in a culture. I think we should get stupid with Christmas. I mean like just absolutely obscene with Christmas. I think every year we should find ways to get more obscene and it should just, we should go up to like this climax point and just find a way to make it as intense as possible.

This is my dream. This is my goal.

So it gets ridiculous to the point to where they have to extend the Christmas season pretty much 12 months a year and then we're celebrating the birth of Jesus throughout all the world all the time.

All the time.

And it's all because of Christmas.

Yeah.

And the only other time like we're not really talking about the Christmas season.

That's how Jesus comes back.

Yeah.

Is when we're talking about the resurrection. Christmas all year long and it's like resurrection and like, okay, we're back at Christmas again.

Right.

And I'm good with leaving the lights up all year round. And I usually leave mine up to like the end of January anyways.

Well, it's kind of hard to take them down anyways.

It is hard to take them down. That's why. And this year I'm out.

I have to say though, Jeff, I went to your house right before we left for the airport and I commented to Luke, I was like, that's it?

I'm not done.

It was just like one tree with lights and I was like, the way Jeff talks about Christmas, I thought it was going to be like a competition. I like competition.

You didn't have everything plugged in.

Who had more Christmas decorations up than Jeff?

I think you.

We didn't have everything turned on. It was four. You have to walk around the house. So, but here's the thing also. One thing I do, just a fun Christmas tradition of mine in my home is that we actually don't do everything all at once because we don't put the presents out and we don't do all the lights because Christmas Eve when the kids go to bed, they all sleep in the same room together because it's a special thing.

Sleep in the same room together. We shut the door and when we put all the gifts out, I am skilled, I will say I have some skills on how to build the presents in such a way that it looks like there is an enormous amount of presents.

Like they come all the way out to the next room, even if there's like not that many gifts, I have a skill. It takes me like three hours to make sure I get it. But then I take lights and we put lights all over the floor and all over like the wall.

Also, it's a completely different room they walk into.

They're going to walk barefoot is what you're saying.

Yeah, exactly. So, you do it and not Santa Claus?

No, no, no.

I do it. I do it.

Okay, okay.

Okay.

Santa comes and eats the cookies.

Okay.

Here's the thing. We have never taught our kids personally about Santa Claus because I don't want my kids to have me telling them there's the existence of this man who does certain things and then I'm going to come tell them like I made it up, I'm just kidding because then what are they going to think about God?

So, I'm just not into that. But, but we take...

Spoiler alert for any kids watching the show.

We take candy and we make candy trails all the way from the tree to the kid's door. So when they wake up in the morning, they come out to this new room with lights everywhere all over the floor and they follow their candy trail right to the tree.

Wow.

Awesome.

That's my tradition. What are your traditions? Anybody got anything like that?

We actually started a couple years ago not putting any presents underneath the tree. Our daughters are older now, they're 16 and 19 and so we really wanted to focus back in on what Christmas was about.

So every Christmas morning we get up, we have coffee, hot chocolate and then we go down and we serve drinks at the Salvation Army luncheon down at the Phoenix Convention Center.

Way to Jesus-juke all this. Thank you, Rebecca.

No, but what's amazing...

I hope you're happy with your salvationist Jeff.

Wow.

That's what I will say.

We used to be homeless kids.

Wow.

No, but it's actually, it's a great tradition because our kids love to do it.

I just can't believe it. Man. Oh, wow.

Well, I go... Does anybody else have any awesome, like, obviously servant heart things they do on.

Christmas? I go and eat waffles at my grandparents' house.

Okay.

Well, we're going to talk more about Christmas and celebrating God becoming a man when we get back with Apology on TV. Merry Christmas, everybody. Merry Christmas to you and to you. We'll be right back.

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Christmas Traditions, Gift-Giving, and Serving Others

So we're back, I guess, and we're going to talk about everybody else's Christmas.

During the break, Rebecca was serving some homeless children.

She was gone because she was not doing things to people.

Gotta have a servant's heart.

You have such a servant's heart.

Jeff was building gift castles.

Making his house candy crush. And you're out feeding the homeless and giving orphans presents.

What can I get for me and mine? She's like, oh, I'm out serving soup to people. Alright, so you eat waffles.

We have waffles, yes.

Anything else?

When I was a kid, we would go to my grandparents' best friend house and she would just buy us just like tons of presents. So we had to take two cars back. And that was like every year until her kids had kids.

People will say, Marcus, they'll say, oh, it's just like, you know, it's all consumer driven and like, it's all about just like buying stuff you don't need. And it's like, that's not the message.

Praise the Lord.

I say, wait a second.

Capitalism is from God. It truly is.

But but like, isn't the idea behind the pouring out gifts upon one another is you're sacrificing your stuff, your money for other and you're just giving and you don't expect anything.

Back.

It's all about gifts because I think people expect something back.

Well, I'm not supposed to. I mean, we're not supposed to. My point is, is to give and not expect anything back. You just give.

Jesus didn't expect anything back.

I like getting stuff back.

That's what I was going to say.

But, but like it's the whole idea of like God gave us Jesus and that's a gift. And like, you know, the tree, like the whole thing with the tree is like you can, you can show like the tree speaks to us about like the evergreen tree.

It makes its way through the winter. It's like it symbolizes eternal life. And you have like the lights, Jesus is the light of the world. And even the candy cane.

Right.

The story of the candy cane.

The stripes.

The Christian candy maker.

The shepherd. Yes, the shepherd. And the blood.

And the blood.

And the stripes.

And the white, you know.

It's like matzo bread.

And peppermint because Jesus.

Yeah.

Peppermint.

Wait a second, matzo. Bread?

There is something.

Shouldn't it be myrrh?

I said it's like matzo bread.

The crackers we use for communion.

Frankincense.

Because they got the stripes.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

That's exactly right.

All right, Luke.

Chris.

Well, this is actually only the second year we've had Christmas in our own house with our own kids.

Yeah.

So we're kind of still establishing some of those traditions. But I do have a funny story. I think it was like two years ago. My oldest would have been like three. And so like as far as Santa, like we were telling her, like we do Santa, but she knows it's like not real.

It's pretend. So she knew that Santa was not real. And we've had to like say, no, don't say other, tell other kids that you're going to make them mad. But yeah. So she knows that Santa's not real, but like she loves the Grinch.

So she was like worried that the Grinch was going to come down to the fireplace and take her presents. She wasn't worried about Santa, but she was, she thought the Grinch was real. She's like, I don't want the Grinch coming and taking my presents.

Did you tell her that he's redeemed now? He's changed his heart.

We're like, the Grinch isn't real either, baby.

He's a new heart. He's not real?

No. Sorry.

So, you know, this is some, this is, let's, let's be honest, this is a place Christians can lovingly disagree with one another. You know, if somebody says, well, I'm a believer and I want to celebrate Christmas, I don't try to convince them.

I don't try to make them. I just say, well, enjoy watching me. But, you know, this is one of those areas, I think we need to be gracious to each other because you know, this is not like an essential of the faith sort of a thing.

And I think you can show in history, there's historical arguments that show that Christians really, you really have conquered here and taken dominion, made like a worldwide holiday celebrating Jesus and him coming, you know, God becoming a man.

That's a big deal. But there's a really cool clip online. It's Douglas Wilson and Kirk Cameron. And Cameron asks Wilson about the, you know, quote unquote, pagan origins of Christmas. And I think what Wilson has to say here is good to listen to.

Here we go.

The thing that I would point out is that a lot of things that people say, like a Saturday, the Romans celebrated Saturnalia, and this is just Christmas is Saturnalia. But Saturnalia was December 17th or the winter solstice.

But the winter solstice is not on December 25th. The Emperor Aurelian established in the late third century, the late 200s, he established a pagan holiday called Sol Invictus, the feast of the unconquerable sun.

But think about this for a minute. If you're a pagan emperor and you're starting a pagan festival in the late third century, I would want to argue that this is pagan pushback. If you start with just a few thousand Christians in the third, you know, 33 AD, just a few thousand Christians, and then several centuries later, they're on the verge of becoming the official religion of the Roman Empire.

So Constantine is just a few decades out from here. That had to have been an explosive supernova movement. The Christians had to have been just exploding despite all the persecution. And it makes sense to me that the pagans, that Sol Invictus was not the holiday that Christians knocked off trying to establish Christmas, but rather the pagans were pushing back and trying to answer the Christian holiday.

Christians celebrated Christmas, the birth of Christ, from the third and fourth centuries. And they were right on the verge of becoming the established faith of the empire. They were very influential.

And I view Aurelian as fighting some sort of a rearguard action, trying to deal with these Christians and their celebration of the incarnation of the Lord.

So that's an interesting perspective.

Yeah.

You know, the Bible says their gods will be remembered no more. Right? That's one of the prophecies.

Yeah.

And so now we look back and everybody remembers Jesus's birthday, right? They're still fighting against it.

Yeah.

You know, Starbucks, you know, whatever.

Yeah, whatever.

What's your name? My name is Mary.

Write it on the cup. Put it on the cup.

You put it on the cup.

Right.

But nobody's celebrating the other gods during this time.

So you got to admit, though, in terms of like the Starbucks situation, funny thing. If the worst the world gets from Christians is not a knife at the neck saying you submit to Islam, but put Christmas on my cup, forget about the advent calendars they had in their.

Store. You know, because that has nothing to do with it.

We saw that.

We were talking about that.

It's an advent calendar.

What are they counting down to? We're counting down to the next cup of coffee.

Counting down to IRS tax return day.

Counting down to IRS.

Winter solstice.

Well, I think it's good for us as Christians to look at the world and these festivals and these celebrations with sort of a clear head in mind, right?

Like the festivus for the rest of us?

Yeah.

I mean, what do you think? We're so quick to like believe stuff online. Like we see something online and we go, it's true.

Yeah.

I saw somebody the other day shared an Onion article and they were like up in arms like, I can't believe it. I can't believe this is happening. And you're like, this is Maranatha.

Come quick people.

It's like, it's the Onion. It's the Onion. Do you not see it?

It's the Onion.

If it looks obscene and crazy and impossible, it probably is. And I saw another one yesterday. Somebody shared an article. They were like, can you believe this Facebook group? It's promoting the sale of little urns that can grow into trees that you use for if you've had an abortion.

And they're like, can you believe what this world's coming to? I was like, it's a satirical Facebook page. It had been shared like a hundred times by Christians. You know?

Yeah.

Real quick before we go.

Yeah.

You know what makes a great gift for Christmas?

I'm thinking.

Mission Aware.

Look at that. Spurgeon.

I got GK Chesterton.

There we go.

Mission Aware.

You get their shirts at missionaware .com. They do make great Christmas gifts and they have lots and lots of great shirts.

Yes.

Okay.

But you go to missionaware .com. You get a shirt. But what's, what's the code they put in Marcus? Cause they also get a free Apologia.

They get an Apologia sticker like that behind you.

Yeah.

Put Apologia in.

But not that big. It's not that big. It's a mini version.

Putting it on the car.

Yeah.

I saw that. It looks pretty awesome too.

Why haven't we got any?

I don't know.

We need to get some. Merry Christmas everybody.

Merry Christmas.

And we're going to come to a break and then we'll be right back. We're going to do some cool stuff. We're going to play a game.

Naughty or nice.

Be right back. So what is a philosophically devastating critique of your worldview? It is not a worldview you should hold onto any longer.

Virginia Tech, 2007.

So what?

32 children, kids, students are killed.

So what?

Andrea Yates, 2001, killed her four children. So what? No, we're not baby eaters. So what?

Best part. Here it comes.

You build it low.

Favorite Christmas movie of all time. Here it is. That's when you know it's Christmas. When Mr. Potter says, Merry Christmas to you in jail. Go on home, they're waiting for you.

Is that Bernie Sanders?

I thought he could be.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Bernie Sanders. Bernie Sanders. Merry Christmas to you in jail.

Whoa. Whoa.

Bernie Christmas to you.

Bernie Christmas.

Instead of giving you gifts, we take your gifts.

We redistribute. Bernie is the reverse Santa Claus. He comes to people's houses and takes those gifts and gives them away to other people. It's cause it's only fair. Who's naughty? They deserve more. Give them what the nice kids earned.

St. Nicholas, the Trinity, and the History Behind Santa Claus

So, uh, welcome back and what's happening over there? Welcome back. What's happening over there?

Why is there a tree shaking?

Why is a tree shaking?

Is it an earthquake?

Well, there's no earthquakes in... Well, there was an earthquake.

Hey!

What's up?

It's St. Nicholas.

Yes. We have our own St. Nicholas. He's Kenny Roberts from Apologia Church and, uh...

Well, now you've ruined everything. You gave his name away.

Oh, oh, oh.

Pay no attention, kids.

So, uh, you have to admit, this is one of the greatest beards ever.

It's glorious.

Tell us what's happened to you during the Christmas season as you've walked around with this outfit.

Uh, kids are coming up to me, wanting to get my attention, asking if they're good enough, and, you know, giving me candy, but the weirdest thing is that women are attacking me.

Women are attacking you?

That's right. They want a hug. You know, they say, can I have a hug? And it's like, uh, okay.

Mrs. Claus doesn't like that very much.

No.

So, hey, so, uh, obviously, we celebrate Christmas, we celebrate the birth of God becoming a man to come save us from our sins, but, however, most people don't know the story of St. Nicholas. Obviously, the story's changed and it's morphed a bit, and this is really the Coca-Cola Santa Claus.

Yeah.

Did you bring Coca-Cola?

A lot of people don't know that. Coca-Cola developed this whole advertising thing, and that's how St. Nicholas, who was Sinterklaas in other places. Sinterklaas, kapuncha. And so, um, when I was in Holland.

Isn't that weird?

Isn't that weird?

When I was in Holland, we did Sinterklaas, and, uh, he has an assistant named Zorta Piet, and they come, he comes to your house and he puts his gifts in your shoes.

Is that weird?

He's from Holland. Yes, isn't that weird? He puts the toys and the gifts in your shoes, and, uh, I don't know where I was going with that, but, uh, yeah, Santa Claus. Sinterklaas. Um, anyway, this is a Coca-Cola Santa.

Did you see there's like a new trend? Like, instead of getting the stockings you hang up, there's like actual boots you can.

Get. Yeah.

And you put them out.

That's traditional in Holland. That's how we do it.

That's going old school.

That is old school.

Wow.

Uh, because that actually goes back to the history of St. Nicholas, who was a Christian who gave away gifts. He was a bishop.

But listen to this.

I want to say it before we do our little game we're doing here. In A .D. 325, Emperor Constantine convened the Council of Nicaea. They did not put the Bible together at Nicaea, by the way.

No, they didn't.

The very first ecumenical council, according to this. More than 300 bishops came from all over the Christian world to debate the nature of the Holy Trinity. It was one of the early church's most intense theological questions.

Arius, from Egypt, was teaching that Jesus the Son was not equal to God the Father, because he was obviously, uh, created, in a sense. So Arius forcefully argued this position at length. The bishops listened respectfully.

As Arius vigorously continued, Nicholas became more and more agitated. Finally, he could no longer bear what he believed was essential being attacked. The outraged Nicholas got up, crossed the room, and slapped Arius across the face.

Glory.

Wow.

So, Santa Claus is hardcore theologian.

Pie-pittin'.

Pie-pittin'. Pie-slappin'.

Pie-pittin'. Don't be dissing the Trinity or you'll get smacked across the mouth.

Slap ya silly.

So, um, so yeah. So we're going to play a game right now.

Needless to say, Arius got cool that year for Christmas.

He did. He did.

He was very, very naughty. Uh, and, uh, it's a naughty thing to mess with the Trinity. It is. So, uh, we're going to play a game. Why don't you tell us about the game we're going to play?

Yeah, well, we thought since Santa Claus is in, is in house, we would play a little game called Naughty and Nice, where we're going to put up some pictures and Santa's going to tell us whether they're on the naughty or nice list this year.

All right.

So, here we go.

And for everyone that's, you know, super theologically minded, we all understand that everybody's really naughty. Yes, we do.

Okay.

This is just for fun.

Okay.

So.

No one is nice by nature.

That's right.

There is.

Naughty by nature.

I'll have to find.

No, not one.

Yeah.

No need to send in the mail.

All right.

So let's start.

First picture.

It's a fire.

Buzzfeed.

Oh.

That's the picture?

Yeah. That's it?

Yeah.

Buzzfeed. All the things they do.

Definitely nice.

Definitely nice?

I don't think you've seen some of the recent videos.

I think.

You're going to go with naughty?

I think naughty.

I'm going to go with naughty. Buzzfeed is pretty naughty.

Yeah. I think naughty.

With their propaganda.

Yeah. Yeah.

With the buzz they create.