"Who is God?" -Debate between Christian Pastor and LDS Member

All right, and we are live. I am Pastor Braden here with AJ, and welcome to Reformed Ex-Mormon. And for anybody that is able to watch this video, I welcome you, and I hope that this is edifying and God-glorifying for you today.

Today, myself and AJ, AJ is an active LDS member, and I myself am a Reformed Baptist, a Christian. And today we are going to be discussing a very, very important topic of who is God. And I have the privilege, like I said, to have AJ on here with me.

AJ reached out to myself to want to discuss this topic in a semi-formal debate system like we have here today. And so, like I said, I hope that this kind of a video blesses our listeners, whether you be LDS or a Christian or whatever you might be, an unbeliever, an atheist, an agnostic.

I hope that this video would bless you in these ways. So before we begin in our introductions, I just want to give a quick rundown of how this live debate is going to work. Both AJ and I, myself, are going to give introductions to ourselves, which will be about five minutes each.

After that, we'll get into some opening arguments, where AJ will be going first, having 10 minutes. I will follow with a 10-minute opening argument, after which we'll then go into some cross-examinations, and where we'll be somewhat informal in asking questions back and forth between AJ and myself.

And during that time, I would encourage our audience, if you're watching this live, to start asking questions, as it'll take a little while for those questions to load and be on our screens. After we're done with our cross-examination, those questions will then be asked to each other.

And I would ask, if you're making a question, to direct it at one of us, or if it's a question for both of us, to direct it to both of us in those ways. So that is the plan for the day. After the Q &A moment, we'll then have closing arguments, where AJ will go first, followed by myself, and then we'll end the live stream.

So on that note, AJ, I'll let you start with your five-minute introduction and testimony, and anything along those lines would be welcome during this time. But I'll go ahead and hit my timer and put myself on mute, and I'll let you introduce yourself.

Hello, I'm AJ Hill. I've been in the church since I was 9 years old. 17 of those years, or excuse me, up to the age of 17, I was inactive, active, not really engaged in the work. So I left after I was 17 years old.

And before that, before I became a Latter-day Saint, or a Mormon at the time, I would call them, because if you're not a Latter-day Saint and you're just kind of in it just for the show or for the ride, then you're not really engaged.

But anyway, so before that, my family was nonreligious, really. We had a few churches around the neighborhood, and we had frequent them on occasion, mostly Baptist or Pentecostal or Presbyterian, whatever the denomination.

I'm not sure, but they were mostly Christian-centered churches. I moved to Madeira from Bakersfield, and up here we were introduced to the church. We joined, me and my brother and my great-grandmother, but my mom and dad were not engaged.

Most of the time they were disengaged and not happy about the situation. So I'm not a longtime member with any lineage. But once I turned about 32, a woman that is my ex-wife now, she decided she wanted to go back to church.

And I'd tried this before, but never really got the feeling or got engaged. And something happened. It's been the last 23 years, I've been engaged. I love it. I can't get enough of it. That's why I'm doing this debate, because I don't have enough people to talk to at work.

So I think that whenever I analyze if I could have believed in a God or not and how I was able to have a God in my life or Jesus Christ, it was because of Joseph Smith and his story. I don't have any other avenue in my mind that I could have ever had a relationship with a loving God and his son, because nothing that I was listening to outside of the church was connecting with me in a spiritual way.

And we know that spiritual is one of the things that it binds the soul and the mind and the heart together. Without that soul, heart, and mind engaged in spiritual things, you cannot truly have a connection with God.

And like I said, none of the other ones out there, I'd listen to Walter Martin. I'd listen to, which I had to tape up. I listened constantly. Hank Kinegraf, Alan Murray, just anything that, and there were several others.

I just listened to Christian Talk Radio or Christian everything. I was definitely engaged. And my research at the time was the Bible. I did not engage in any other book except for the Bible when it came to figuring out what truth was.

And so I came to a conclusion what I seen truth was. And then I was compelled to choose one of those ideas, because I could have chosen none of them. But I chose the church that fit my theology that I came to conclusion to after reading the Bible.

So I'm going to defer my time to Brad. Brandon. Brandon. Braden, excuse me.

Yes, you're good.

No worries.

Yes, that's right.

Yeah, Braden.

No, thank you for that introduction. So I hit stop on yours. And I just want to remind, because we have three people watching.

And at one point we had seven.

So I would encourage anybody that's watching this right now to share this on different social media platforms so that we can have multiple people watching this and have a better Q &A moment, which we'll have after our cross-examination.

So, AJ, thank you for that introduction. I appreciate that. So you are currently an LDS member.

Is that right?

An active LDS member?

Yes.

Okay, perfect.

So I'll go ahead and hit my timer right now. And I'll introduce myself. And just for those that are watching, I'll be putting this up here every once in a while just to show everybody that we are trying to be consistent with the times and be as pleasant as we possibly can towards each other, but still have this be a somewhat formal debate.

So I'll hit my time right now. So, yeah, my name is Braden Patterson. I grew up in an LDS family that had strong ties within an LDS community. I have four brothers and a mom and dad who I love very dearly and who love me as well.

I had been LDS for 19 years and had graduated seminary with all four years of seminary and all my 100 Scripture Masteries memorized. And it was after, while attempting and while studying and preparing myself to go on a mission, I met a lovely little lady who is now my wife, but at the time became my girlfriend, who I was highly encouraged to convert by my family.

And while being LDS, I knew in my heart that if anybody was going to preach to her what the LDS believe, I would be the best one at it and that there's no way that she could deny the truth argument that I would make to her.

So after dating her for about a month, I gave her a Book of Mormon and the next following night, I talked to her for about one to two hours in her driveway. And during that time, I talked to her about who Jesus was, according to the LDS, Joseph Smith, the necessity of temples in our lives, eternal marriage, the plan of salvation, the plan of happiness.

Just a really solid first lesson that a missionary would give to somebody is what I went through with my now wife, but at the time, girlfriend. And she listened to me the entire time without saying anything, without interrupting me, and she was very kind in that way.

And at the end of my conversation, I bore my testimony to her and I knew that what I just said could not have been said any better. And I knew what I just said was true. And she looked at me and she said, that's stupid and not in the Bible.

And it hit me like a brick of trucks right then and there that I had just been saying was absolute truth to that was what I was just saying was absolute foolishness and wrong. And so I went home that day.

We ended that conversation. I went home. And now, looking back seven to eight years later, somewhere in that time frame, I have still yet to find a single thing that I told her in the Bible as being truth that I told her that night as being part of my testimony of why I was LDS.

Since then, I have had great men and women that have been placed in my life that have discipled me in different means in different ways. And I have now became a pastor in a little church in Hagerman, Idaho.

The church is called Valley Baptist Church. If you're in the area, I would highly encourage you to please come and check us out as I would love to talk with you and share with you the Christ that I know and see in the Bible today.

And so the question of who is God is fundamental to me, and it is central to my belief in how we obtain salvation, who he is and who we worship, who we ought to be worshiping. And so it's so important to me that we are having this discussion.

So I am very thankful to have AJ on here as we are discussing these things. And I'm trying to think of any way else I could talk about. I'm representing a Reformed Baptist Christian thinking of the Word of God, Christian and Orthodox view of the Trinity, our triune God, according to the Word of God.

I believe in the five solas, so I hold Scripture as my authority, and I'm doing this debate for God's glory alone. And on that note, I will concede the rest of my time, which on that note, are you ready to begin our opening argument and opening statements, AJ?

Yes.

Perfect.

So like I said, just to remind everybody that's listening to us right now, AJ is going to start with giving an opening statement, an opening argument. And this is on the topic of who is God, and he'll have 10 minutes of uninterrupted time after which I will give him a summary of what he has told me.

Not saying that I believe in what he told me, nor is it when he does it for me, he's saying that he believes in what I've said. But this is a way that we can show each other that we've been listening to each other's arguments, and therefore we are being respectful in those ways.

So if you are ready, AJ, I'll hit the timer and I'll hit start right now.

Thank you very much, and I've enjoyed your story. And I appreciate those who are listening to us or watching us live. I learned something unique a few months ago as I debate on Facebook and all that. God is not petty.

We are here to be proven, not because he doesn't know our hearts and our minds before we've done what we've done in life or the events that we choose to partake in, but we don't know. And he loves us, and he knows that each one of us is dynamic to being an individual in the universe, not singular-minded.

Not one person in the universe or in this galaxy or in this world is single-minded. And he understands that more fully than we can understand ourselves. I want to give you some numbers to help you realize the dynamics of what eternity is, because if we don't understand what eternity looks like, it's really going to be hard for me to fully engage in a conversation with somebody that doesn't look at the universe the same way as I do.

Because, for one, I use the universe and its physical laws and how it affects the micro and the macro as a foundation of how I read scripture or how I move about life, determining what is right and wrong and how I can be successful in my spiritual life, my temporal life, and my social life.

The social life being more demanding than anything. You've got to be on your knees for that more than anything. But let me give you some numbers. There's 30 trillion cells in the human body. 30 trillion.

You can look this up on Google. I've looked it up several times. And within each cell, there's 100 trillion atoms within each cell. And if you were to count every atom that was in the universe, which there is no number that we can think about that could ever count that many, but there's a number of them out there.

You would still come within less than 1 of what eternity looks like. If you were to count every atom in the universe, and you were to times that by 100 ,000 years, that would still not be eternity. There's no number for it, but at least you can understand that the word eternity has some relevance in our thinking when we talk about the creation, who is God, when is God, and where is God, and all these dynamics.

See, most theologies out there start out from an age where people believed that the earth was the center of the universe and it was flat. And so they also chose to have a God that was the most powerful existence in the universe.

I was listening to Hugh Nibley, and he talked about a gentleman, I didn't get a chance to look this guy up back in those ages, where they said that anything that existed that was physical was corrupt.

So they made God an incorruptible God by displacing him as not being a physical anything. So we have basically a God that's just an idea anymore, and no longer has any relationship to us, except for a presence that comes through Jesus Christ or the Holy Ghost.

And we have one that's called the Father. I want to read you a quote from one of my favorite albums in the rock era. A man named Pete Townsend from The Who wrote this in his song. And he talks about a child that's deaf, dumb, and blind.

And his name is Tommy. And some people have heard the song Pinball Wizard. But here's a quote. And it says, and Tommy doesn't know what day it is, because this is Christmas, and they're celebrating Christmas at this time.

He doesn't know who Jesus was or what praying is. How can he be saved from his eternal grave? So can we expect a child who's deaf, dumb, and blind to know Jesus the same way as a person of full consciousness with all its abilities, eyes, ears, mouth?

Can we put the same conditions on that child as we do ourselves or have all the capacities that God has given us? So we haven't got into who is God, but we'll get there. I know him not to be petty. And if I was a fly on the wall in that kingdom, and the father asked the son, you know, there's some of them down there that say that you're the brother of Lucifer.

Especially those people have called themselves the Latter-day Saints. Does that matter to you? I would imagine Jesus says, no, I just want to love you and to love each other. And that's really if you think about the commandments that he talked about when he was asked by somebody who wanted to tear him down.

He says, the question was, what is the greatest of all commandments? And he says, this is the commandment, that there is only one God, that they should worship him with all their heart, might, mind, or excuse me, they should love him with all their heart, might, mind, and strength.

And to love their neighbor as ourselves. So let's get to another incident that happened many years ago. A man named Hugh Nibley, if you look him up. He died of a pen, he was wondering about whether the afterlife existed or not.

And he went to a ward that he wasn't familiar with, didn't know the people there. And this has happened back in the 20s. And, or thereabouts. And he was drawn in by the bishop and says, hey, I want to give you, I want to talk to you after the meeting.

And so they went into his office and he gave him a blessing. And in that blessing, he says, you'll have your answers within the week. And so, during that week, sure enough, he had appendicitis rupture and he died on the table.

And because of that experience, of that near-death experience, he was able to come back and realize that what the, what the, what his concerns were about the afterlife were all taken away. And we have another child back in the 2000 era.

His name is Colton Burpo. And I'm going to read this to you off my other screen. So I'm going to look away. Colton Burpo, a young child who died on the table, operating table, with appendicitis rupture.

Coincidence. And he claimed that he went to heaven. And he says, as a young child, Jesus was really happy. God really, really loves us. Jesus is right next to God. Jesus really loves the children. Jesus died on the cross so we could go see his dad.

So I wanted to illustrate another incident with Stephen. Now, most people, the problem with reading scripture is we walk into narratives that have been taught to us. Even me, if you give me about another 30 seconds plus.

Yeah, I'll let you have another minute.

No worries, brother. You can finish that up.

Sorry, not brother.

A .J., excuse me.

Brother's good too. I think we're both human beings. But this is the account of Stephen. Now, like I said, most of us read the Bible and we just go along with everybody else's understanding and we really don't get engaged.

But this is what it says. This is after he had talked to the high priest or the people in charge for almost forever. And he was and this is what was described. This is what is described by the apostle who wrote this.

It's not his words. It's what's described because this is what he's what the apostle says. But he being full of the Holy Ghost looks up steadfastly in heaven into heaven and saw the glory of God and Jesus standing on the right hand of God.

That's what the apostle says. That is he is interjecting his understanding of what's going on. Because now just before Stephen was thrown out of the city, this is what Stephen says to the people. This is quote from Stephen.

And said, behold, I see the heavens open and the Son of Man standing on the right hand of God. He's not quoting a verse. He is telling us matter of fact what he sees. And I will end it there.

Awesome.

Okay.

So so to repeat back to you some of the stuff that I was able to pick up from what you said that that our design with our 30 ,000 cells in our body is 30 trillion. Oh, man, I was far off then that that that's that is the idea or that's not even scratching the surface of how long eternity is that.

The idea that God is incorruptible was was brought about by.

I can't remember the gentleman's name that you said, but was was by man was quoting one of the ancient fathers of the church.

Okay, gotcha.

And then also that that a child that dies on the operating table that might even be deaf, dumb or blind is going to be in heaven with Jesus because Jesus died on the cross so that we can be with his dad.

And then you quoted about with Steph and seeing into heaven and seeing God and Jesus next to God. Is that correct?

Yeah, that's a good summary.

Okay, I'll leave it at that because we is that acceptable to you for what I understand.

The song is the song is what I was quoting from an album, Tommy.

Yeah.

And it's he's deaf, dumb and blind. And they're asking a secular world is asking the question, how can he be saved from his eternal grave if he doesn't know Jesus?

I gotcha.

So would it also be fair just so I know where you're coming from on just one question, which I will go more in depth on these kind of things in the Q &A moment, just so I know where you're coming from as well.

Would you say that that Jesus, the Spirit, the Holy Ghost and the Father are three distinctly divided beings, that they're not one being one God, that they're separate individual people? Would that be fair enough to say?

It's more dynamic than that. We could.

Okay.

There are individuals. And then there is the collective, meaning that the universe in itself is one mass. Between me and you, there's no separation. It's just one whole. And in the world, in the dynamic of God, all things are one with him.

Okay.

Because even if you were to say that God was separated from the universe because he created the universe within his own sphere of existence, he's still dynamically attached to the Son and the Holy Ghost as the Father.

I gotcha. I gotcha.

Well, so I'll go ahead and hit my 10. Is it okay if I, since you did around 11 minutes, is it okay if I get 11 minutes as well?

Okay.

So I'll hit start right now on my side. And as long as what I said was acceptable for you as a summary of what you said in your time.

Is that right?

Okay.

Thanks, AJ.

All right.

We'll start right now. So, yeah, to know who God is is of absolute vital importance. In fact, if we get the idea of who God is wrong, according to John 17, verse 3, we do not have everlasting life. And we also see that in the same way that we are to know who God is, we are also to know who Jesus Christ is.

Because in 1 Corinthians chapter 15, 1 through 4, in the sword of summation of the gospel, the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ according to scriptures. And so the idea of who Jesus Christ is has to be that which is according to scriptures.

Same thing with God. In fact, in Matthew chapter 7, verses 22 through 23, we see that in the last day, many will call out to Christ and say, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name, cast out demons in your name, and performed all these many mighty miracles in your name.

They profess to know Jesus, and Jesus responds to them. Depart from me, ye workers of iniquity. I never knew you. And so the question of who God is has everlasting consequences. And if wrong, we will spend eternity in eternal fire, according to John chapter 15, 1 through 6.

So defining God in his fullness, meaning that I can conceive everything that who God is, cannot be done because God surpasses all understanding and is too wonderful for us, Job 42, 1 through 6. But I do say, and I would absolutely believe that God has sufficiently revealed himself in three primary ways.

The first being through creation, Romans 1, 20 through 23. The second way being in his incarnation, Matthew 1, 21 through 23, and John 1, 1 through 3, and verse 14 and 18 as well, that no one has seen God, but the only begotten God has explained him.

And so that would be the second way that we can understand who God is, is through his incarnation, his becoming flesh. The third way that we understand who God is, is through his inspired word, 2 Timothy 3, 15 through 17.

So using tota scriptura, meaning that I'm using all of scripture to tell anybody my definition of any doctrinal belief that I believe in, especially of that of who is God, I rely on scripture alone. And according to scripture alone, God is a monotheistic God, meaning that there's no gods before him nor after him, and that he is the only creator and sustainer of all things, John 1, 3, Hebrews 1, 3, Colossians 1, 17.

I'm going to read for us just some Bible verses right now. I'm going to start in Isaiah chapter 43, verses 10 through 13, so I would encourage anybody that has a Bible to please follow along. Verse 10 of Isaiah 43, you are my witness declares the Lord, Yahweh.

That's what that term Lord is in that text in the Hebrew, Yahweh. And my servant whom I have chosen in order that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me there was no God's form, and there will be none after me.

I, even I, am the Yahweh, the Lord, and besides me no savior. As it is I who have declared and have saved and proclaimed that there was no strange God, Elohim, among you. You are my witnesses, declare the Yahweh, and I am Elohim.

Even from eternity I am he, and there is none who can deliver out of my hand. I act and who can reverse it. In verse 15, we would also see, I am Yahweh, your holy one, the creator of Israel, your king.

I want to read from one other area here in Isaiah chapter 44, verses 6 through 8. It says in there, thus says the Yahweh, the king of Israel, and his redeemer, the Yahweh, which is the same word that we would find Jehovah from.

So the Jehovah of hosts, I am the first and I am the last, and besides, and there is no Elohim besides me. Speaking of that same Jehovah or Yahweh. And who is like me, let him proclaim and declare. Yes, let him recount it to me in order from the time that I established the ancient nations.

And let them declare to them the things that are coming and the events that are going to take place. Do not tremble and do not be afraid. Have I not since long announced it to you and declared it, and you are my witnesses.

Is there any God, any Elohim besides me? Or is there any other rock? I know not none. It also repeats itself in Isaiah chapter 45, verses 5 through 7, and Isaiah 46, 5 through 9, which I will not be reading at the moment.

But looking at Isaiah chapter 44, verses 6 and 8, there are many terms that are applied to God in that text. The first one that I will make mention of is him being the rock, and there is no other rock besides him.

We see Jesus Christ as being referred as the rock in Matthew chapter 7, verses 24 through 25. Acts chapter 4, verses 10 through 12. 1 Corinthians 10 through 10, verse 4. We also see him being referred to as king.

John 12, 15 makes it clear that Jesus Christ is our king. He's also known as the first and last in Isaiah chapter 44. And the same idea is represented in Revelation chapter 22, verse 13, where he is saying that he is the first and the last, the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end.

And this is once again applied to Jesus Christ. He's also known as savior and redeemer in that same text. And we would see that in Matthew chapter 1, verses 21, Psalm 19, 14, and Romans 3, 23 through 24, that Christ is our only savior and our only redeemer.

But most importantly, out of all these terms, the one term that is most important to apply to who Jesus is or who God is, is Yahweh, or the capital word of Lord. In correlation, especially to Elohim, we would see that this word is first used in Exodus 3, 14, and 6 ,000 times all throughout the Old Testament.

As it is God's explicit name that no one else has the right to, and it is his memorial name from generation to generation. So we can clearly see from the Bible verse that there is no gods before nor after him.

So he is monotheistic in nature. So we would also see that throughout both the Old Testament and New Testament, that there are three persons or subsistences that claim the attributes that only the one singular being God possesses.

And some of these attributes are such as creator, resurrecting, indwells, omnipresence, omnipotence, sanctifying, eternal, and is called God. And that would be in Philippians 1, 2, John 1, 1, Colossians 2, 9, and Acts 5, 3 -4.

And we will have many other verses that we can go through to show these things. But each three of these persons or subsistences has a will, speaks, and demonstrates love, and performs different acts in different ways.

So for my definition of who God is, using scripture alone as my authority to define who God is, the Christian's conclusion is this. There is only one and true living God whom there are none before nor after.

He exists in and of himself and is not dependent on anything or anyone. As he is the one and only self-existing being and essence, Yahweh, I am. In the divine infinite being, God, there are three subsistences or persons, the eternal Father, the eternal Son, and the eternal Holy Spirit.

These three persons or subsistences are co-equal, co-eternal, and undivided in essence, but distinct in their subsistences or persons. Christians are to worship God in trinity and trinity in unity. There is not three eternals, nor three almighties, nor three essences, but there is one eternal, one almighty, and one essence.

But we do not confuse the Father with the Son, nor the Son with the Holy Spirit, nor the Holy Spirit with the Father, but we confess that there is one eternal God and three co-equal subsistences. Why is this important?

Why is it important that we have this right definition of who God is? Because Jesus Christ himself claims to be that God that I just defined for us using scripture. In John chapter 8 verses 23 to 24, which I'll read for us now, it says in verse 23,.

And he was saying to them, you are from below, this is speaking about their nature, you are from below, I am from above. You are of this world, I am not of this world. I said therefore to you that you shall die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am, you shall die in your sins.

And that word I am is the same word that is used in Exodus 3 .14 and 6 ,000 other times, including Isaiah chapter 43 through chapter 46. It is the explicit name of God that Jesus Christ uses of himself, and he says if you do not believe in him in that way, you will die in your sins.

Now, I would also like to just make reference to Luke chapter 5 as I don't have enough time to read it all for us. But Luke chapter 5 verses 15 through 26, we see something particular happen in there.

Jesus is surrounded by this large crowd of people. A paralytic man is lowered through the roof to be able to see Jesus, and he lays in the middle of this room. And Jesus seeing this, he says to him, because of your faith, your sins are forgiven you.

And the Jews, the Pharisees at the time, heard Jesus saying these things, and they started to think to themselves and talked amongst themselves. And they said, this is blasphemy. Who is he that is a man that can forgive sins?

Only God can forgive sins. And that comes from Daniel chapter 9 verse 9, and that is true. Only God can forgive sins. I cannot forgive AJ's sins, nor can I forgive my own sins or anybody else's sins. It's God alone that can forgive sins.

But instead of Jesus Christ rebuking what the Jews have said, he instead validates the fact that he has the right to forgive sins because he is God in flesh by causing the paralytic man to stand, walk, and go home.

And therefore all the people there started glorifying God in this way. So the reason that the Jews crucified Christ was not because they were hypocrites, nor were they conspiring in these different ways to kill Jesus.

The reason that they went to kill Jesus was because Jesus claimed to be God in flesh. And that comes from John 5, 17 through 18, John 8, 52 through 59, 10, 30 through 33, 13, 19, and also chapter 18 verses 4 through 9, and 19 through 7.

And in those accounts, we see that the Pharisees attempted to kill Jesus Christ by stoning or by claiming that he being a man has made himself equal with God, him being a man has made himself out to be God, and him being a man has made himself out to be the son of God.

These words, these terms are synonymous with each other. And as we can see now, if we go back to 1 Corinthians chapter 15, 1 through 4, that the gospel message of Jesus Christ, his death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ according to scriptures is only good as long as we're defining our God properly, our Jesus Christ properly.

And since it is I, since I and anybody else that's watching this and everybody that's underneath the sun has sinned only against God and him alone, it is God himself that must pay the price of our sin for there to be a true forgiveness that takes place.

And since I have sinned against God alone, Psalm 51 verse 4, we see God himself becoming flesh, becoming obedient underneath the law, living the life that I cannot live, dying the death that I deserve, taking the wrath that I deserve for my sin, being buried and rising from the grave in great victory, validating his previous claims just like the paralytic man validated his claims of being able to forgive sins.

So on that note, that is my time. That's what you just heard going off in the back there. Go ahead and give me my, how would you explain what I just said?

So what I've listened to is that you are a Mothiistic, that is, there is one God that also allows you to say that there is also a Jesus Christ, the Holy Ghost, and the Father who work co-equal to, not co-equal, but work within the dynamics of God to bring forth his glory.

Is that correct?

That's fair enough. I would say that the three persons work differently in their economic view of the Trinity, but in their ontological view of the Trinity, they're all fully God being of the same essence and being God.

But no, that is adequate for what you just said for me.

Yeah, I figured you could explain it again.

I understand.

Because I totally agree with that. Now, the other part, you brought forth scripture saying that if you don't know the true God, if you don't know Jesus, then how can you be saved? And you say without knowing God, that the true God, without that, then your salvation is not guaranteed because of that lack of knowledge.