Pope Leo and Father Martin, Pints with Aquinas and Marian Idolatry

Alpha & Omega Ministries

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00:30

Greetings and welcome to the dividing line. My name is James White and I am in the middle of a rainstorm.

00:35

Just started literally 30 seconds ago. It's not anything bad yet, but if the one

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I drove through a couple hours ago is any indication, you could end up hearing something.

00:47

I mean, I can sort of hear it on the roof right now. But which reminds me,

00:53

Rich, I got in after that rainstorm and there was water on the bathroom floor. But it rained last night and nothing had happened in that bathroom.

01:03

So I'm thinking a 60 to 65 mile per hour wind had something to do with why we had some water on the bathroom floor from a rainstorm.

01:13

So probably get that replaced and resealed or something like that. But I'll forget about it if I don't mention now.

01:19

Now everybody knows too. It's RV life, kids. It's just when you drag the house with you everywhere you go, stuff happens.

01:27

It's just the way things are. But yeah, I can see the rain coming out there. And normally

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I would turn everything off and just listen because it's glorious. You want to be able to sleep real well?

01:40

Man, rain on the roof of an RV. If you have confidence that it's just stay on the roof, not visit you or in various places you don't want it to happen.

01:55

But anyways, I think I'm in Oklahoma. I think. I'm pretty sure.

02:02

I'm getting close to Arkansas. I know that much. I think. I don't know. I'm going to Tennessee.

02:07

We'll get there. It's going to be a big weekend. I hope everybody has already got your tickets.

02:14

If you don't, I'm sure there's still room, I think. Anyway, anytime to get to listen to Jason Lyle.

02:22

And I get to be there when Jason Lyle gives his Fractal presentation, which as I was explaining to the guys who are putting it on, they jokingly said, we're going to ask you to do the

02:34

Fractal presentation. I said, okay, I think I could. Not as well as Jason, but I've been doing

02:41

Fractal art since the late 90s. And in fact, Jason will tell you, I contacted

02:46

Jason about he and I co -authoring. Oh, don't worry.

02:53

That was my water bottle popping. I'm sitting there going, is that the electricity going out?

02:58

Did we just blow a fuse? Who knows? I contacted Jason about co -authoring a book on fractals with him, but he had already started on his.

03:09

So, and his is excellent, excellent book. I highly recommend it to you if you want to pick it up.

03:14

But I'm really looking forward to that. What I'm going to do is I'm going to ask him to sneak one of my fractals into his presentation.

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I have hundreds of them, just hundreds of them that I've done over the years. And they're easy to do now, but back in the late 90s, they weren't nearly as easy to do as they are now.

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But I love fractals, love fractal art. And if you don't know what we're talking about, go look up, just put in Jason Lyle plus fractals and YouTube and be amazed at what you, at what you learn.

03:46

It is, it's something else. Anyways, so we've got that.

03:51

I have the dialogue with a progressivist pastor, who was,

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I guess, raised King James only. That'll be, that's an interesting aspect of things. And my presentations,

04:05

Eli Ayala is there. It's going to be great, great time, great fellowship.

04:10

And then the next weekend in Tullahoma, we've got the debate with Dale Tuggy, and we've got the

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Harbor Freight G3 going on, and looking forward to seeing Keith Foskey and Jeremiah Nortier, and all the good guys that are going to be there.

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Of course, Jeffrey Rice in Tullahoma. And then I'm off to Pennsylvania, and Chris Arnzen, Iron Sharpens Iron, his pastor's luncheon, speaking at his church on Sunday.

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And then a long drive back. It's a long way. It's in Pennsylvania, Arizona. My family and I did that when

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I was 11 years old, when we moved from pretty much same area, Carlisle. We lived in Harrisburg, well

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Camp Hill, which is a suburb of Harrisburg. And we were driving a 1972

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Buick LeSabre, and a U -Haul truck. And we were poor.

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I did not realize how poor we were until I became an adult, and then looked back and went, man, we were poor.

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You had all that privilege. No, no, we didn't. Sorry. I'm not sure what sky, the color of the sky is in your world.

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But anyway, so it will take me longer to drive back, because we weren't 57 feet long and 13 and a half feet tall.

05:38

Weighed 23 ,000 pounds back then. And so anyway, then you may have noticed, before we get to our subject today, the announcement.

05:51

Marlon got a hold of me, and The Gospel Truth is doing this big debate.

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I'm not sure it's a debate conference, but two days of just debate, after debate, after debate, on all sorts of different topics.

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Jeremiah Nortier has demonstrated that he has no interest in listening to me.

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I have said, repeatedly, since last year, I told my friend there in Houston, and I told

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Rich, if you ever hear me talking about debating Leighton Flowers again, punch me in the nose. Well, Jeremiah didn't listen, and so he's gonna give

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Leighton what Leighton wants. Leighton only wants to debate one topic, free will.

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And no matter what other topic you debate him on, he's still gonna debate you on free will. That's been proven rather clearly.

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And so they're gonna be doing that and a bunch of other debates.

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And I was contacted, I'm sorry, when

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I hear drip, drip, drip, I'm not sure if that's inside or outside.

07:24

You know, if all of a sudden I go to a splash screen, it's because I've decided that the drip, drip, drip's actually inside.

07:35

We've had a leak that we've been chasing around, and leaks on roofs of RVs are notoriously difficult to locate.

07:45

Because it's just ratings, that's all it is. Because like right now, just to give you an idea, the slot that I'm in at the

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KOA that I'm staying at is not even close to being perfectly level.

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And so I had to raise the jacks in the back to get anywhere near,

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I'm still a full degree off, but get anywhere near level. And that puts different stresses on the roof, on the walls, things like that.

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And if you've got, you know, when it's sitting perfectly flat, you may not be able to see that there's, you know, even a professional can't see anything.

08:28

You do that one degree twisting and all of a sudden a space opens up, which you can't see other ones.

08:34

Um, that's why it could leak while you're pulling, but not necessarily while you're sitting still.

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It's a challenge, and that's why I don't get mad at the, at the RV repairman and stuff like, well, you know, when they do dumb things, yeah.

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But, um, when they can't necessarily find something, um, you know, we understand how this stuff works.

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So anyway, if I seem distracted, it's because I'm hearing rain and wondering if it's inside or outside.

09:02

Anyway, I was contacted and there was a

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Unitarian. There's only so many in, in this particular group that Dale Tuggy is a part of.

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And this guy, I haven't started doing all the listening that I will be doing between now and then, but I'm really confused because he's

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Unitarian that teaches at a Methodist college. Now I'm sort of like, weren't, aren't the

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Methodists Trinitarians? And unfortunately, um, if it's

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United Methodist, um, they abandoned any meaningful commitment to scripture as the word of God a long time ago.

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And I've said over and over again, if you don't have the highest view of scripture, there's no reason for you to be a

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Trinitarian because otherwise you're just going, it's tradition. And once you say it's just tradition, then you can dismiss it and interpret it differently or in a different, with a different lens or whatever.

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Um, I'm a biblical Trinitarian because it is the only way to read the

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Bible in such a way as to be honest with it. And, um, so anyway, uh, we were, we are working on something else in Dallas on Islam, and I'm trying to make that dovetail with a trip out to Keith Foskey's church in Jacksonville, Florida.

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Do you know it's Jacksonville, Florida is closer than Pennsylvania. It is, uh, from Phoenix anyways, and just couldn't make it work out.

10:51

And so I said, you know what? Uh, we're going to have to do the other stuff in Dallas in March and Florida.

11:00

Uh, I'll work around a schedule that Keith already has, and we'll, we'll try to make something work out.

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And I will just do a flying drive out to Dallas and back. Um, if I push it,

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I can get there in two days. I know some of you younger folks, uh, could do it, uh, in two days easily, but doing seven or eight hours on the road is a little dangerous.

11:28

I'm driving alone. If you get tired, sometimes you don't realize you're getting tired, stuff like that.

11:36

Um, that's why if we ever upgrade the truck, uh, I want the, uh,

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I want the driving stuff, the safety stuff, you know, it keeps going down the road. Um, current truck has none of that.

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And, uh, so you can go just right off the road and it doesn't care. Um, but, um, yeah, we're going to, we're going to get there and we're going to do the debate.

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I've actually asked him, I've actually asked him to look at, um, making it two debates with, um, another subject that I've suggested to him.

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Well, that seemed to be possible. I don't know, even though we've, we've got plenty of time between now and February. Uh, well, it's not a lot of time, but we've, we've got time between now and February.

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So we'll see, um, we'll see what comes of, uh, of all of that. But, uh, yeah, lots of stuff going on.

12:22

And, um, I know that the debate in a couple of weeks with Dale Tuggy will not be live streamed, but it will be made available fairly quickly thereafter.

12:36

Uh, Dale wanted to make sure that all of the, um, slides were put into the presentation at high quality.

12:49

And he's right. Sometimes you watch a debate and there's these slides.

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And if you're just watching the camera doing, he can't read what's on the slide. Now we also had

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Ross, the guy that I debated in Tullahoma that had 256 slides, I think for a 20 minute, 25 minute presentation.

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So it's like quickly, quickly, the FedEx man, and people are sitting there just going, what's he talking about?

13:19

My Mildred. I have no idea about, you know, so, uh, that's just still rolling my eyes about that one.

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Anyway, so we're going to make sure that all the slides and I've been working on my slides, but my slides are basic.

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It's just the text primarily. And now I am, I am putting some graphics into the sense of arrows and animations and stuff, but it's pretty much just the

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Greek text, um, with a pretty background, uh, which I'm not done with. I've got, I've got enough time to get it finished up, but, um, and even tonight, as soon as we're done here,

13:57

I have to start grading papers for a class at the seminary that the grades are due in a couple of days and I've got to do it while driving.

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And it's been tough to get to, you know, why? Something people don't think about. I've been losing a day, almost every, every trip, a day, an hour, almost every trip because I'm going east.

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So now I'm in central time, I've lost two hours. So you, you, you look at the, at the

14:22

GPS, it's like, why is it going to take me so long to get there? Oh, that's right. I lose an hour. Uh, I'll get them back coming back, but I don't need them.

14:28

Then, um, uh, I need them now. So more, more of the RV life now as to our topics, so many things, um, friend of mine who probably is listening right now, hope so hopefully is sent me a, uh, article from today, um, that, uh, has the title

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Pope Leo to maintain openness to LGBTQ Jesuit advocate says, well, who

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Jesuit advocate, who can we think of is a

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Jesuit advocate for the LGBTQ? Oh, father Martin.

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Yes. Father James Martin. I have a picture on my screen of James Martin sitting there, smiling, standing next to Pope Leo the 14th.

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Yes. As of yesterday, yesterday. Now I'll be honest with you.

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I don't know. Hope Leo the 14th, the American, the first American Pope, he doesn't look all that comfortable to me, but I don't know him well enough to really make that judgment.

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I don't think, uh, but he, he looks somewhat hesitant in the picture, but we've seen pictures of Francis with James Martin, and we know that Francis sent handwritten letters to Martin, encouraging him and his work and all the rest of this kind of stuff, which does not make a lick of sense to me or to many, many, many

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Roman Catholics. Um, but it's the way that it was. And now you've got

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Pope Leo meeting with James Martin, and it does make a lot of us go, hmm, big question was only a few months ago, what's the next

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Pope going to do with Francis's legacy? Francis has worked so hard and packed the

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College of Cardinals with his acolytes. Uh, and, and some people sort of felt like, yeah, well, that didn't turn out.

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I mean, Leo looks like he's going to be more conservative, et cetera, et cetera. And I'm like, the first major thing

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Leo, Pope Leo does is to make

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John Henry Cardinal Newman a doctor of the Roman Catholic Church. There's less than, what is there, 38, 35, 38?

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I forget what the number is now with Newman. Maybe it might be in the forties, but I think it's in the upper thirties.

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I'll have to check. Anyway, um, a lot of us went, huh, because see, you need to understand there could never have been a

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Vatican II without Newman's development hypothesis, or at least the use of it.

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And we've got to admit what Newman was trying to do at the end of the 19th century, um, what, what, what, late 18, uh, late, um, 1800s, um, what he was trying to do, the issues that he was doing, dealing with a little bit different than what we're dealing with today.

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And the danger that other people saw with Newman's development hypothesis was just the fact that it could literally be used to substantiate almost anything.

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And it could, um, that is, that is true. And so its utilization today, if you're wondering what

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I'm doing, I'm just making sure to lock the truck.

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I'm sure it was, but that's never, aren't you ever, do you ever drive down the road and go, did

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I lock the front door? Did I lock the back door? You get nervous. Um, since the development hypothesis is an abandonment of the historical field of battle, there really isn't any, there aren't any guard rails.

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People want to think that there are, they want to pretend that there are, but there really aren't any guard rails.

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You can, you can go any direction you want, uh, with the development hypothesis, as long as you have the ultimate authority of Rome to interpret these things.

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And so it does make you go, huh, still friendly with James Martin, the

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LGBTQ stuff. And you've just made John Henry Cardinal Newman, a doctor of the church, which means you're really giving further approval, uh, to the development hypothesis, which really allows for,

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I mean, it's so obvious that the church in the eighth century, um, had a different view of the

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Pope's and heresy than the church after Vatican one, the development hypothesis allows for this.

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So the church today has a different view of the, of capital punishment than it had in the year 1600.

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And the development hypothesis allows for this. Um, so what about LGBTQ issues?

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Now, obviously LGBTQ is a meaningless acronym, just the sexual revolution. Um, I mean, obviously

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L and G are so far removed from T that there's no logical connection between them outside of they're both rebellion against the created order.

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So it does make you wonder, is this exactly what was planned by Francis, um, years ago?

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Because it has to be done slowly. It can't be done in any type of radical thing, any type of radical move.

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It's got to be, got to be done slowly, explained in that way, development, the church, et cetera, et cetera.

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Um, and I, I think that's, I think that's where we're going to see things going. A, um, an interview was posted a few days ago.

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Let me see, five days ago, Matt Frad's Pints with Aquinas.

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It's an interview episode 538 with father Jose Maria, Jose Maria Barbin Franciscan, uh, us vocations director for the

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Franciscan friars, the immaculate and author of beloved disciple loving out living out.

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I'm sorry. Fonts are very small living out our Marian consecration daily. Um, people very quickly grabbed quotes and started posting them online.

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A number of years ago, I was speaking in Chicago. This would have been 20 years ago.

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And as I would explain the Marian dogmas and then get into,

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I'd say that these had at least some, um, you know, perpetual

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Virginia, Mary, where does it come from? Well, and quote evangelical James and not exactly reliable sources and stuff like that.

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But at least there's a discussion going on. And then, you know, bodily assumption of Mary, the first literature that's found in was considered heretical by the

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Pope, but, you know, eventually and immaculate conception and form finally dogmatized was come up.

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Someone came up with it by a British monk by the name of um, you know, 1200 years after Christ and all the rest of this kind of stuff.

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And then I would say, now one of the real issues here is where is this going to go?

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Because I was, especially prior to the year 2000, we were, you know, I wrote Mary and other redeemer question mark where I was talking about the fifth

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Marian dogma and whether, uh, Pope John Paul, the second would define it as part of the turn of the millennium celebrations, which he, he didn't.

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Um, but, um, the Popes have taught that Mary's core demetrics, co advocate for the people of God and co -media tricks.

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They've taught this as doctrine, but not as dogma, which some people would wonder just how relevant that distinction is, especially today.

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But as I'd get toward the end of the presentation, I would include quotes from Liguri and then

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I would also, you know, Louis de Montfort and then come up to the present time with Maximilian Kolb.

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And I would read this one quotation where Maximilian Kolb says that in a true sense, we can say that Mary is the incarnation of the

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Holy Spirit. And the universal response to my reading of that quote for coming up on 30 years now is gasps, gasps.

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How can just stunned gasps from anyone familiar with the scriptures?

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They're just left breathless by such an astonishing statement.

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I mean, all the rest of the stuff we sit here and go, yeah, apostles didn't believe any of that, but you get to this and you go, how can anyone take this seriously?

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And what it does is it illustrates what happens when you go this far, when you abandon sola scriptura.

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Well, people started watching this interview and all of a sudden, everyone's like, you've got to be kidding.

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Now I'm not going to have the time. I only downloaded it in audio so I could listen to it while driving.

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Anyways, I'd have to be able to download the, and again, we're doing stuff off cell towers and things like that.

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I could put the Starlink thing out once I get someplace where I'm there for more than, you know, 12 hours.

27:00

And maybe I can pull it down. Maybe on the way back, doubtful, might just have to wait till I get back and got the studio and stuff like that and can do things better.

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But I do think it'd be valuable to walk through this thing because I can't think of too many examples of just how, well, let me put it this way, listening to this conversation between Matt Fradd and Father Jose Maria, this is a different religion.

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This is a religion with a female deity at the top. Oh, I know they start off, oh, none of this, it all takes us back to Jesus.

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So none of this baloney, baloney. You're only saying that because you know, once you get into it, you know, once you start saying the things that you're saying, you know, once you start saying that Mary's wishes are commands for God, that those of us who've read the

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Montford, who have read Liguri, we know where this goes.

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We know what this results in. And we see the videos, the people carrying Mary through the streets.

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And you see the videos of a Marian statue with this big, long flowing veil that they carry down the center of the church.

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And the veil goes over everybody and everybody's reaching up and oh, it's worship.

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It's idolatry. You can do all the hyperdulia absurdity you want.

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Everybody knows what's going on. It's too plain. It's too clear.

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It's too obvious. All the excuses just collapse in front of common sense.

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And so as I'm sitting here listening to the passion with which this man speaks, he worships a different God than I do.

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And I don't say that lightly, but it is unquestionable, unquestionable that no apostle of the

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Lord Jesus Christ ever said a word about this, ever transmitted anything about beliefs like this to anyone at any time.

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If you want to talk about apostolic succession, this is one of the most glaring examples of the fact that whatever you think apostolic succession is, it doesn't have anything to do with the apostles within Roman Catholicism.

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You don't have to worry about what the apostles taught, said, did, doesn't matter. So it's truly amazing.

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And so it would be useful to, you know, and I could,

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I guess, just go to that thread on Twitter and just grab those. They were most of the stuff, though there were a few quotes that I heard that I'm like, wow, there it is.

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There's a key issue right there that I don't necessarily think were picked up by the stuff that was posted online.

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We'll see. We'll do what we can. But what I did do is I just, because I mean,

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I pulled in not very long ago and Rich has been doing a lot of rearranging of stuff and it's always, the whole idea is can we make this fast and simple?

31:11

Because it was easier in the, in the Jayco, the one we had before this, we had the studio, it was set up, it stayed set up all the time.

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It was just a matter of putting stuff up and boom, going. We don't have the same situation here. So how do you, how can

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I do this in the most efficient way? And we're getting pretty, pretty close.

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This was, I got this done fairly quickly, actually, relatively speaking.

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And so I didn't have a whole lot of time. I wanted to get this done because like I said,

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I've got grades to do tonight and all sorts of other stuff, stuff going on.

31:54

But I grabbed this one section and I just want you, if you haven't seen it, okay, some people say that they can only listen to a few minutes of it and then they have to turn it off.

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Okay. I get that too. And if you have to fast forward,

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I get it. I understand. You know, I had to read The Glories of Mary and it is spiritually oppressive.

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The level of idolatry, it's, it's, I can understand why a lot of people go, no,

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I'm not, not doing that. But if you want to understand what's going on, if you want to understand the centrality of Mary within Roman Catholicism and where this movement is going, because it's not done.

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I think I mentioned to you, if you were listening a few weeks ago, that Mark Miravalli from Steubenville, who was the main guy, one of the main guys, pushing the

33:00

Fifth Marian Dogma stuff at the end of the 1900s there, right at the turn of the century, he's still at it.

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And there are still millions of petitions that have been signed and turned in from faithful Roman Catholics that want to have

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Mary defined as co -redemptrix, co -mediatrix, and advocate for the people of God as a dogma, de fide, you know, by, of faith.

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So in other words, something that defines the faith, you reject it, you're excommunicated. Of course,

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Rome doesn't do that with almost anybody today. So really, what does it mean is the question. But that movement is still out there, and it pulls from the same stream of piety that you'll hear here.

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So could someday Mary be defined as the spouse of the

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Holy Spirit? You might sit here and go, that's absurd. And of course, in the year 500, if someone said, could

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Mary ever be dogmatically defined to have been bodily assumed into heaven, it also would have been, that's absurd.

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Well, it's happened. And it took 1400 years, but it's happened.

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And without sola scriptura, anything can happen. There's, once you have sola ecclesia, then the ecclesia is your final authority.

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It can do whatever it wants. So as someone has said recently, in a completely different context, buckle up, buttercup.

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What a time we live in. Buckle up, buttercup. Let's listen to a few minutes of this interview.

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Oh, wait a minute. That will help. And I'll even let you see it.

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How's that? So what

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Saint Maximilian does is, he's actually a theologian in all three senses. Because in 1854, the dogma of the

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Immaculate Conception is proclaimed as dogma. So he bases it on the dogma of the

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Immaculate Conception. What happens in 1858? Our Lady says and reveals her name.

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I am the Immaculate Conception. Saint Maximilian prayed, contemplated that revelation of her name.

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I am the Immaculate Conception. By the way, all through this, the major assertions were always based upon extra biblical revelation.

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Because that's what this is. This is a Marian apparition. And it's not biblical.

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It's not scriptural. And this man's primary sources are

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Liguri, Kolb, Louis de Montfort, maybe Aquinas once in a while.

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It certainly ain't Peter, Paul, and John, and Luke, and James, and so on and so forth.

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No. You can't quote them in defense of Marian dogma.

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Just a word. Because it's not there. It's absent. You have to read it back into their words from the modern perspective.

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It's pure anachronism. But this is all he contemplated.

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He contemplated. This is all mysticism. That's what it is.

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What does that mean? What does that mean? Who are you, the Immaculate Conception? Because she didn't say,

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I was immaculately conceived. Exactly. She said, I am the Immaculate Conception.

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And am I right that Bernadette was unaware of the dogma that had been proclaimed a few years earlier? Absolutely. She was a simple peasant.

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And when she revealed, when Our Lady revealed her name, she had to keep repeating it as she was going to her pastor.

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Because she was like, what is this about? What is the Immaculate Conception? I am the Immaculate Conception. And then she says it to her pastor.

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I am the Immaculate Conception. Who are you, O Immaculate Conception? So he contemplated that throughout his whole life.

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And just before his arrest, he gets a mystical intuition and an answer to his question.

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And then he articulates that mystical gift into the second mode, the academic mode.

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How does he do it? In simple terms, this is what he does. He contemplates the mystery of God Ad -Intra, the intra -Trinitarian life,

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Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And he says that we know by faith that there are two eternal processions.

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From the Father, the Father eternally begets the Son. The Father and Son eternally spirate the

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Holy Spirit. And what he does is he hones in on the second eternal procession.

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Then he says, Father and Son are divine persons.

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So we can call that spiration a conception. The Holy Spirit, you mean?

38:46

Is that what you mean? From the Father and Son? Yes. I see. Father and Son spirate the Holy Spirit.

38:52

What does the word spirate mean? That's a theological term for the eternal, second eternal procession, the spiration of the

38:59

Holy Spirit. So the Son is begotten, eternally begotten. The Holy Spirit, there's a spiration of the

39:07

Holy Spirit. Okay. Yeah. It's a theological term. Yeah. I've heard it before. And obviously language breaks down as we start trying to understand this.

39:15

But the point maybe for our listeners is that from all eternity, from all eternity, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit have existed as God.

39:22

Yeah. So St. Maximilian contemplates that. And he says that the Father and the Son are divine persons.

39:29

So that spiration can be called a conception. Catching that?

39:36

That spiration can be called a conception. By whose authority?

39:44

This saint's contemplation. And this stuff builds and builds and builds.

39:52

So you go back to St. Bernard, and they say this, and they say this, and they get quoted, and they get quoted, and some other saint quotes them.

39:59

And somebody has a spiritual thought about that, and you end up with dogma. It has nothing to do with the apostles.

40:06

It has nothing to do with the deposit of faith. But it's a dogma. That's how you get immaculate conception.

40:14

That's how you get bodily assumption. That's how you would get, if it's ever defined, the fifth

40:21

Marian dogmas. Dogma, Mary is co -redemptrix, co -mediatrix, advocate for the people of God.

40:26

It all comes, this is how it's built up over time. It's tradition built upon tradition, built upon tradition, built upon tradition.

40:38

Has nothing to do with the apostles. Has nothing to do with the ones for all delivered to the saint's faith. You have to redefine all that stuff.

40:46

That's why Roman Catholic apologists attacked Sola Scriptura at the beginning.

40:52

Jehovah's Witnesses, what do they go after first? The Trinity. Roman Catholics, why do they go after first? Sola Scriptura.

40:58

Why? Because if they want you to accept what Roman Catholicism teaches, you cannot remain committed to the sufficiency of Scripture.

41:08

Because Scripture does not teach any of this at all. Plainly, clearly, without question.

41:15

So that's why you do it. Proper to persons, the Father and Son are perfect.

41:22

So that spiration can be called immaculate. The Father and Son spirate the

41:30

Holy Spirit for all eternity. So we can call that spiration, uncreated, immaculate, conception.

41:42

So for Saint Maximilian, when Our Lady reveals her name,

41:48

I am the immaculate conception. He sees that as a deep, ineffable, mysterious, spousal union between the uncreated, immaculate conception, and the created, immaculate conception.

42:11

She is the spouse of the Holy Spirit. And he says, that title, as good as it is, is so weak to express that ineffable union.

42:27

He actually says it's a quasi incarnation of the

42:33

Holy Spirit. Catch that? Quasi incarnation of the

42:40

Holy Spirit. Spouse of the

42:46

Holy Spirit. Quasi incarnation of the Holy Spirit.

42:52

Matt, this is the max you can go.

42:57

Nice. What does that imply? It implies that the

43:03

Holy Spirit, who is, as Saint Louis de Montfort would say, is unfruitful in the life of God?

43:11

Catch that? Again, de Montfort, Liguori, Kolb, these are his sources.

43:17

This is his canon. This is his canon. He's not quoting Romans. He's not quoting

43:24

John. They don't say these things. It's these

43:31

Roman Catholic saints. And when they say something, then it gets repeated, and repeated, and repeated.

43:38

It becomes tradition, and then can become, you know, 200 years down the road, dogma.

43:45

That's how it works. That's how you got the immaculate conception. That's how you got the bodily assumption. That's why millions of petitions have been signed for the fifth

43:52

Marian dogma. That's, this is how it works. And it just goes farther, and farther, and farther, and farther, and farther away from anything that can even be conceivably connected in any way to Christianity, to the apostles, the ministry of Christ, to the gospel.

44:13

But what does it do? It distracts from the gospel. It detracts from the gospel.

44:19

Massively so. Because it takes a servant of Christ, a servant of God, used by God, but never exalted by the apostles, and puts her in the position of the central object of the veneration, and yes, worship of millions, and millions, and millions of people around the world.

44:47

And that's why Liguori repeats over, and over again, and promotes

44:54

Marian devotion, Marian dedication. I commit myself to you,

45:00

Mary. In your hands, I place my, my eternal salvation. And they had already talked about how

45:08

Mary is the neck through which grace flows. So no grace accrues to anyone outside of Mary.

45:17

Again, biblical? Please, don't try to make the argument.

45:24

You can't. That's why you have to exalt saints, and visionaries, and take their words, and you build all this stuff up.

45:34

That's, that's how you get to where we are. Yeah. Why? Because there's no other persons that proceed from him.

45:41

Oh, I'm sorry. So the Holy Spirit is unfruitful. Um, why, why should anyone take that seriously?

45:56

You see, whoever, you know, these supposed saints that are being quoted did not understand the gospel.

46:06

They held to a false gospel, and a false system of authority, and a false system of worship. People don't want to say that today.

46:16

They don't want to be open about it, but that's the reality. So why should you listen to what they have to say about speculating about things that there's absolutely no divine revelation of?

46:29

The only way you can literally believe this stuff is to believe in continuing revelation. That's, that's what it's all about.

46:38

Is fruitful outside of God, only in the blessed

46:44

Virgin Mary. Mary. Okay. So here's, how long is this thing?

46:58

Uh, two hours and 29 minutes. Now, not all of it's on this. I got into some other stuff later on.

47:04

It wasn't directly relevant, uh, to that, that kind of stuff. But if you do the first hour and 10 minutes, hour and 15 minutes, you really get the big heresy.

47:19

Okay. You get all the wildly heretical, wacky, strange stuff.

47:25

Um, I listened to an hour and 20 minutes. So, okay. Maybe, maybe after an hour and 20 minutes, there's, there's more.

47:31

I don't know. Um, if there is, maybe somebody will tell me about that. But all the clips that I saw were from that, that first section.

47:42

And Matt Fradd looks a little uncomfortable a couple of times, as you would expect them to be.

47:51

Um, because even, even though there are times he's like, like there was one point where he talks about Mary's requests become commands for God.

48:03

How can God have commands? What are we talking about here? There's a part of him that realizes this just goes so far, but you know what?

48:14

Once you capitulate on sola scriptura, you've got no ground left to stand on.

48:21

You got nothing. And you know, even if you tried to say,

48:26

I can't find even a Pope the first thousand years that talked about stuff like this doesn't matter.

48:35

Once you die, sola scriptura, the church gets to do whatever the church wants to do, sola ecclesia. And so now you throw in the doctor of the church,

48:46

John Henry Cardinal Newman. Oh, it was, uh, it was in the early church as the seed to the greater tree that took 1500 years, 2000 years to grow and doesn't look anything like anybody expected, but hey, it's, uh, we, we've bought into this now.

49:01

And so it is what it is. That's what you're stuck with here.

49:08

That's what you're stuck with here. Um, and it's, it's frightening. It truly is frightening to listen to this stuff and to, uh, to think about it.

49:21

So we'll, we'll do, um, like I said,

49:27

I might be able to pull it down and, uh, and do some stuff even on the trip.

49:33

We'll see. Um, might have some time coming back enough. I'm feeling really, really good and all that.

49:41

We might be able to do that, but does make you wonder what's going on with Leo and the

49:48

LGBTQ and Newman and all the rest of this stuff.

49:56

And then you throw into that the Roman Catholic integralism and the fact that many people in the supposed

50:05

Christian nationalist movement are, you know, Hey, Rob's not our, our biggest problem.

50:11

And I have to worry about this stuff. You know, we've got, we got to worry about the Jews. The Jews are behind everything.

50:16

And, and, and, you know, then they lose six families to liturgical churches and yeah.

50:25

Yeah. You know, you're just crazy. If you think this stuff would even be in the top 50 of the issues, the church should be dealing with wonder where that's coming from.

50:38

Wonder where that's coming from. Interesting. Interesting. Um, just real briefly and we'll wrap up.

50:46

I don't, you know, I'm a, there's, there's no one holding a gun in my head that says I've got to go exactly one hour.

50:51

Uh, haven't had dinner yet. Got papers to grade my students. I'm sure would like me to get those things done for them.

50:58

Uh, I saw a, yeah, here it is there.

51:11

I really don't know how to understand so much of what's going on online these days.

51:22

Uh, part of it is a generational thing. Uh, when I grew up, you, you're supposed to say what you meant and back up what you said.

51:32

And that doesn't seem to be how things are done anymore. But there is a fellow online,

51:41

Eli McGowan. He's a Presbyterian and he's been a real

51:46

Thor in the side of the Christian nationalist folks. A lot of, there's a lot of research when he's messed up, he's admitted it, but normally he's spot on and he brings the receipts with the stuff that he's saying.

52:08

And he really bugs the Christian nationalist guys who are running around doing

52:16

Christian nationalist stuff, I guess. Anyway, Eric Kahn from up in Ogden, uh, posted yesterday afternoon, he's referring to Joel Webb and Right Response Ministries is telling the truth, but the boomer pastors will team up with a lesbian gossip to attack him.

52:48

Who is actually unhinged? Well, is really good at making sure that his words are not clear, that they can be read in a number of different ways.

53:07

That is clearly a skill of his. So he can sort of, well,

53:13

I did, me? I would never do that. Um, you know, he had, he has already said that I and others were only relevant during COVID.

53:26

Of course, all the stuff we were doing for decades for that, when he was writing articles on guns for a magazine.

53:34

Um, so I forgot about that stuff, but anyway, uh, and you know, our time has passed and we're the boomers.

53:42

So he, he's one of the, you know, guys that when he is our age, we'll have absolutely positively no standing whatsoever to ever say anything about young people coming after him who simply just dismiss his experience and everything else.

53:57

He's, he's going to have to sit there and go, yep, you're right. I'm irrelevant. Um, he won't, but he'll have no basis, uh, to do otherwise.

54:08

Anyway. Um, I have a feeling that the unhinged things came from the fact that I use that phrase,

54:16

I don't know, three or four days ago about defiant Baptist and the fact that he is unhinged because he is, um, that's probably where it came from.

54:28

So I have a feeling that I'm one of the boomer pastors and probably Doug Wilson and people like that, but we'll team up with a lesbian gossip.

54:37

And I'm like, what, who, who, what, who?

54:45

And so I started asking around, he's talking about, well, it seems that he's talking about Eli who's like six foot four or something.

55:01

Um, but who's a guy, uh, married guy.

55:07

And I'm, I'm like, what? So I directly asked, um,

55:18

Eric Kahn when he, when he first posted this, I specifically asked, um, here, um,

55:33

I said, who are you talking about? Who's who's the lesbian? And then

55:38

I didn't get a response. I said, maybe you didn't see this. Do you have the spine to be specific or would that expose, or would that expose the utter foolishness of this comment?

55:49

And he likes to throw stuff out there. And then when challenged and asked directly, stand up, um, and answer the question.

56:03

Uh, he just doesn't do it. He doesn't feel any responsibility whatsoever to address that topic at all.

56:11

And so I, if there has been any response offered by him to me,

56:16

I have not been able to find it anywhere. Uh, I've looked all over for it and, um, can't find one.

56:27

So it seems like we literally have pastors, um, who are calling their critics lesbians.

56:44

And I'm like, I mean, I knew the maturity level was really low, but now it's,

56:52

I mean, are, are we down to fourth grade now in the fourth grade playground? Is that where it is?

57:00

I mean, you do realize homosexuality is sort of a serious thing. I know you guys don't debate homosexual. I know you don't,

57:07

I know you haven't done it. You haven't written any books about it. You may have preached a sermon about it or something like that.

57:12

Um, but you, you haven't done anything. Um, you weren't out there long before a burger fail happened debating gay marriage with a homosexual in Salt Lake city as I was.

57:30

Um, so that's why it would never cross my mind to use language like that, because I know how important this stuff is.

57:40

And you, you, you make it significantly less important when you use terms like this of a man.

57:52

It's just childish. And you're not going to listen to me very clearly.

57:58

That's obvious, but isn't there anyone in these guys lives that can try to reign them in before they just completely self -destruct?

58:10

I hope so. I really do because it's astonishing the things that they're say and do and, and hit the post button.

58:20

It doesn't go away. It doesn't go away. So strange stuff, strange, strange stuff going on in the world out there, uh, today.

58:34

So, all right, well, I would say we have, uh, pretty much covered what we need to cover, uh, today for the road trip.

58:46

And we managed to, thankfully do so without getting hit with another, uh, thunderstorm and knocking the lights out and everything else seems to have worked.

58:55

I haven't gotten, if Rich has been texting me saying nothing's working, um, I have not gotten any of the, uh, any of the texts.

59:03

So I suppose that's good. So, um, pray for this weekend, uh, that saints will be blessed there in, uh, the

59:13

Nashville area, that the presentations will be useful on, uh, presuppositionalism and defense of faith, uh, that the dialogue will go well in regards to the role of scripture in the

59:25

Christian's life, vast difference between how we view that and how progressivists do, uh, the debate following week with Dale Tuggy, presentations there in Tullahoma, um, ministry there in Pennsylvania, lots going on, um, please keep supporting us.

59:44

It's, um, that's how we're paying for the, uh, RV park here.

59:50

And, uh, I know exactly which gas station I'm going to be hitting. There's a, there's a gas station on the way out.

59:58

It's not on our card, but it's so nice to get into that I'm going to use it anyways, um, and get the next leg of the trip done, uh, tomorrow.

01:00:09

But, uh, you make it all possible. You, uh, you pay the bills. And so your, your support is very much appreciated.

01:00:16

That's why we make the effort to put the program on and to, uh, to be with you even here on the road, uh, road trip dividing lines.

01:00:25

So, uh, with that, we thank you once again for watching. We will see you next time.