May 3, 2005

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 nine seven three four six zero two or toll-free across the United States. It's one eight seven seven seven five. Three three three four one and now with today's topic.

Here is James white. Okay, so the postman just goes by and So I get get this package. I open it up and ordered this book and Especially a lot of books I like to get or need to get Aren't in print anymore, but you look for them and you can buy them, you know from a used bookseller or something like that as becomes so much easier to find books really has I sort of feel like I'm in a barrel again here and Anyway, I had ordered the history of the Council of Florence and It's a fairly unusual book here and Good shape I'm looking at here.

This is this is good. Anyway, it's from the Orthodox side. I can tell. But on the outside of the wrap, I mean this just happened. I've Rachel tell you I walked in two minutes for the program started from getting this and Just got open.

So this is the breaking news on the dividing line. And on the the book has been wrapped in you know, the brown type of wrapping paper thingy and There are three sticky notes. Handwritten sticky notes on the thing and it says thank you very much for your purchase.

You know, this is a used bookstore. So and it's here in Phoenix. So I'm wondering do I know this person? I'm starting to wonder given the name if I do but I'm not sure anyway. Here's here's the Here's the what's on the sticky notes.

PS the best book I have seen refuting the Petrine claims of Roman Catholicism is the papacy by AB. Is it Guetta? I'm having trouble reading this. That is father of Vladimir. I like father of Vladimir a lot much more than I do I'll be Guetta or I don't even know is it French?

I mean, there's so many different ways you can pronounce this anyway written in the late 1800s Vladimir quotes the very church fathers Roman Catholics do to support the primacy of Peter and then by quoting those same fathers elsewhere proves Petrine supremacy to be a great myth.

The entire book the papacy is online if you google it I'm sure someone in channel is about to Google the papacy by father of Vladimir and will pop up a URL here in a second a Fellow named Valentin put up the entire book since it is now public domain and yet this book has never been refuted by RC Apologists.

No, so just think I I don't know this person. Okay. Wouldn't that be hilarious and and there's all this information on little Sticky notes on my thing here, and I I just I heard it from Amazon as well to use books folks, you know from Amazon and so I Don't know.

I just found that very very funny. Hey, it's great. And I'm sure that we will have a URL here before long. And then I'll have to figure out a way to download it and you know The neat thing is I don't have to print it out.

All I gotta do is download it and with RepliGo a Wonderful program if you're a palm user you need RepliGo. I mean, there's just no no two ways about it. It is by far the best Document reading program that I have that I have found any it doesn't matter if it's a web page PDF Word document whatever.

As long as you can open it and print it from your computer you can print a RepliGo. It'll it'll be on your And hmm. Let's see if that's it it'll be on your your PDA fully readable very very readable really really neat and it's I Would highly recommend it.

I'm not I'm not, you know getting any money for this and like that, but now that's a URL is incorrect whatever that thing there was but anyway, I Welcome to the dividing line. I mentioned the last Program that I assumed That we would probably I would probably have in my hands the actual final edition of the millet book.

By the time we did the next program and I am I was semi prophetic there that not really overly prophetic to assume that Uh. Does that work with pocket PCs RepliGo? I don't know. I Honestly don't know that part.

Let a Google RepliGo and it's Repli and then go is part of the same word. That's capitalized geo. I forget the maker that I have a couple of the programs. I have so many programs my palm anymore It's not even funny.

I can't keep track of my I mean, there's almost nothing that my palm can't do that my laptop except play CDs. And the t5 has a Has a USB port in it so you can plug in like your USB expansion stuff or your your your jump drives and stuff.

So, I mean basically there's just no no limit anymore to the amount of memory That you can have and for those of you who remember that's repli Repli-go. For those who remember the early palms remember those things.

I got my first early palm at a Christian bookseller Association meeting. I Bought it off of my editor and It had it had been expanded to two meg megs of RAM. You could put one Bible on it and it would I mean and if you want don't even bother doing a search I mean you could search a paper Bible faster.

Could do that anyway, but To have what we've got now I mean I carry and and guys if you want to get your wives to let you to buy one let you buy one of these Things like a t5 or something cuz I've got t3 I'll eventually have to go to t5 because man being able to go USB.

That's just incredible. Because I mean I've got a 1 gig USB jump drive I carry around with mp3s on it and stuff like that so that's that's just incredible, but The way to get your wives to let you do that is to put all your family pictures on it or show them someone who?

Has that's what I do. I do that for the for the guys when I go to various churches I pull it out I start showing all my family pictures like here's my wife and my daughter and they're full-color and they're gorgeous and all this stuff you know and You know, it's it's just a perfect selling point.

Because then she's like, oh, well that looks a lot nicer than those old ratty pictures You've got in your wallet, you know, and yeah, it makes a great Mother's Day gift I Be good look here. I got you a palm t5.

Isn't that wonderful? Anyway, I was trying to say was and I'm not sure how I gotta stop watching the channel because there's there's too many odd People in there. Well, there's always odd people in there.

But anyway, I I did get the millet book. And I was just I hadn't yet done the main thing I need to do and that is to to check Page numbers. In fact, I'm doing that even as we speak right here. Because probably the most important statement in the book is in the afterword by Richard Mao it's on page 183 of the manuscript I looked at so I'm putting that down now I'm turning to page 183 of the book and I think they are the same.

Yep. Oh goody. Goody. Goody. I don't have to change any of the numbers. That's wonderful. That's wonderful page 183 of the book is Page 183 of the manuscript so I'm happy about that Doesn't means I don't have to change any of the review that I wrote for the CIA Journal, but it arrived and the only difference is that we now have the endorsements and If any of you have been following the blog, you know, the endorsements are part of the news as well.

But before we do that before I go to the book and I'm gonna spend some time in the book today. Hold off on calls till at least I'll someone try to remind me. We'll see where we are at half past and and figure out if we're gonna take calls from there.

But I need to look at a few things. I got the Issue 59 of the founders journal just got it today and I Was very pleased to see that the very first article Sounds very familiar. It sounds familiar because I think this is pretty much what Tom Askew presented.

Dr. Tom Askew is pastor of Grace Baptist Church, Cape Coral, Florida. And I have a feeling that his presentation at our conference last year in Los Angeles. Some of you may recall that Was on the subject of imputation and I have a feeling the first article up on page one is a summary or expansion or you know based on that and I know that at one point there is a footnote to my discussion with my discussion about Dr. Mark Seyfried Christ our righteousness.

That's footnotes seven and eight at that particular point and there is a discussion of it and I'm very glad to see that I've got to admit I'm looking forward to getting a chance sometime. I didn't have a chance in California.

Hopefully I will in Seattle because I think I can now Verify that that dr. Askew will be speaking for us in Seattle. At least I know we've invited him to I think if Michael Fallon is listening or somebody's listening who can tell me that That that we've been able to verify that.

One of the things I'm gonna I'm gonna absolutely ask is that somehow I find time to have dinner with with Tom. Because hey, I appreciate the fact that he Addressed that subject. It is near and dear to my heart as well but beyond that I Just I can I can tell that that Tom Askew is going to be another person who would fully understand.

You know one of the the folks in channel last night the and I were talking about this Young fella by name of Dale Valente who comes in the channel. He's in there right now. And we were talking about how you know what we sort of feel.

You feel out of sync with The external Trappings of Christianity today you really do if you have if you have a biblical set of priorities. You know, I I mentioned to him and channel. I said go go read first second Timothy Titus Second Peter and Jude and You.

You read those books and you're just not going to feel comfortable With a lot of the modern Quote-unquote evangelicalism, which I don't call evangelicalism anymore. It's pseudo evangelicalism post evangelicalism, whatever.

If you don't have a concern for the Gospels, how do you call it evangelicalism anyways? You just feel You feel out of place. You sort of feel like you're on a different page. You know what? I mean? It seems like what's important to everybody else isn't important to you you know, you're you're not running around with your J Bez stuff and your your purpose-driven life stuff and You just don't find those things to be You know Overly attractive and interesting and in fact, you find them to be fluffy and unbiblical and and What you want to talk about is not what they want to talk about, you know and I fully understood that and and I I have a feeling Tom would understand that because I Just imagine in writing this article on the imputation of the righteousness of Christ and issues related to the active and passive obedience of Christ and these are things that again if You're new to the program and I know there's a lot of folks that are it's obvious from the fact that a couple days ago we get up in the morning and our websites down because We ran out of space we're at about bandwidth actually and Because we set all new records.

I mean Just People hitting us right and left and so you you're probably listening and this may be the first time you have listened To the program or you've just started listening to it. You just start following the blog and things like that.

But these are issues we have discussed rather extensively in the past last summer. We were addressing the issue of Dr. Seifried's work and his statements about imputation the active passive obedience of Christ things like that and And There are just only a certain there's only a certain spectrum of people today that find that to be at all.

Something that to borrow the the terminology of John Murray rings the bells the heart. He was talking about how justification as a whole doesn't tend to do that and he was talking about as in his own day.

It's considerably worse. I would say today than it was then. You just don't find a whole lot of discussion of these things and sadly what discussion you do find is of people who Once confessed that that was central important and now of real are repenting of their having believed that that was important they're repenting of their over emphasis upon Systematic theology and they're repenting of their having been reformed.

They're repenting of their narrow-mindedness, etc Etc, etc. There's a lot of that kind of repenting going on, I guess. And So, I I just wonder when I see an article like this I imagine amongst the the founders folks Because I see the next article is on is some Tom Nettles recapturing the complementarity of law and gospel is the next one and then The moral silence of divorce Peter Yoder.

That's a looks real interesting. Anyway, I just drop it on the keyboard and shut down the whole computer. I would imagine at least the folks who are gonna be reading something like that would find those articles to be somewhat interesting but still That's not gonna make that the most popular journal on the planet.

That's not gonna make you know Make your ministry big and huge and massive and and it's not gonna get you. You know the fancy cars and and and the big speaking invitations, it's not going to happen that way and I certainly I recognize that you know, I mean people look at the things we we focus upon and They just they just roll their eyes.

I mean, I feel sorry for anybody who tries to market this place. Really oh Great you made a name. By mentioning the issues the gospel when the Pope died. That was that was real popular that made a lot of people love you and and Now you're going after Erdman's because they're publishing LDS apologetics works from a real nice Mormon.

He's a nice man. Haven't you read it? He's a very nice man and Richard Mouw likes him and Craig Blomberg likes him too, and you're just so mean and narrow-minded, you know, da-da-da-da-da. It's just.

It's like we are absolutely intent upon being as little as possible forever and I know that's what it looks like. It's not. That's gonna be the inevitable result of trying to stand for truth in the midst of an entire flow of Apostasy and that's that's what we see around us.

I mean, how else do you describe it? You know and I can just hear the people rolling their eyes as a Sectarians, they're not really Catholic. They don't want to unity in the body. Well, where have you heard that type of stuff before?

Isn't that somewhat similar to the kind of mockery of the prophets in Israel during times of apostasy. You know get on get on board why are you such a stick in the mud, you know. There's 99 prophets that are prophesying peace and you're the one stinking guy that can't get on the boat on the train here.

What's your problem? Is you just like you just you just like being mean and nasty doesn't it and that sounds somewhat familiar and. Yet who was right? Was it the 99 prophesying peace? No, it wasn't ask the Egyptians when they came flooding in or the Babylonians or the Assyrians or whoever is running the people of Israel over that particular point in time and so when you're in the middle of a of a culture that is absolutely intent upon denying God's law denying morality denying the rulership of God the creatorship of God and It's embracing a worldview of Postmodernism that is anti-christian it is it is opposed to the way that God had created us.

I do not believe a person can think as a postmodernist without it being sin. Do you hear that? It's sinful to think that way emergent church folks. Hello earth to emergent church folks. You are coddling sin.

It is rebellious. It is sinful to think in the way the postmodernism would have you to think God is the creator God has spoken God has revealed his truth. He can do that. He can use language to do that and So if you stand against that stuff You're gonna look like well like what we look like that's just up there is to it and It's just the way anyways, I I just I I I want to get a chance to sit down and have Lunch dinner something with Tom Askew when we go to Seattle.

No one ever told me whether I was right about that or I missed it if they did but I I think that's That he is going to be speaking for us there at least I hope so. So anyway, I I've heard rumors you've heard rumors I've heard rumors.

Yeah. Well, I know it's I know I know we want him. Well, there's that he wants us. There's a guy Might seem to be our problem these days might be a different story, but I know we want him. That does seem to be our problem these days.

There's someone who's allegedly in channel right now who's ignoring us and He would be able to tell us somewhere the other Because I thought for certain I saw a a p .m. From him a couple days ago Saying that the Tom was was deaf and had just just confirmed that he'll be there.

So I hope so, but anyway, I did see there I started I started preaching and now I don't have oh, I just got a bunch of pics from the Just got a picture From the debate with Bob Wilkin and it's be it's even before the debate started so this is before I knew what was going to happen and you can see the look on my face is I Don't know that.

I want to be in this picture right now. That's funny, that is really funny. I What would this come from out there? Oh, this is from Wilkins folks I need to forward this on to to to somebody across the the way here.

Because they're asking about DVDs and CDs of the debate. I Think you need to explain them. We'll send you raw footage. But if you want to make it you get to make it yourself. So anyway Yeah blog it. I Thought that was taken on his camera and and it was and and there it is and look at my face is I'd I'm not Sure that I want to yeah, hold it up the microphone seat.

Well, no, come on. It's right on the screen. The screens right in there next to the microphone. You should be able to see it. Just just imagine things. Anyways, I do want to get to this book good grief.

I started preaching again. And I've brought happened about that I'm looking of course at another Christ at another Jesus the book. How many things can we talk about here my goodness I'll have to confess it has how long has it been since we have discussed Mormonism on this program.

I don't remember. The last time we did for example the eternal law of progression presentation. We did that what maybe? Four years ago, maybe three at the earliest where I made a the the PowerPoint presentation available for download and Then I was able to Go through it here on the program.

I think I think we did it over the course of two two programs if I recall I can't oh somebody tell Ray to shut up. I'm not blogging the picture. You know, maybe later on but I don't exactly have time to sit here and take a huge picture and shrink it down the proper Size and FTP it to the proper site and then that you know I can multitask, but I can't do that.

I'm sorry. I have my limits but anyway, it has been forever since we have talked about Mormonism and The sad thing is the result of that I think for a lot of folks I know there's a number of regulars and channel for example that have probably never heard an in-depth discussion of Of Mormonism from me and I apologize for that part of it.

I'll be honest part of it is Due to the fact that we don't go up to the general conference every six months anymore I mean that obviously kept you fairly fresh you had to review things you you talked with with LDS people and Yeah, E Nielsen was just telling us that March 2001 looks like looking back at the archives and it's been a while and part of it is because you know, I I was only at the Easter pageant one night this this past year because I was in England and It's sort of sad and and I'll be very very honest with you a lot of the drive That I had it to deal with Mormonism Began to be sapped away at the same time as this movement began that is specifically designed to To blunt any type of apologetics to the LDS people.

It's specifically designed to blunt outreach to the Mormon people and The people who've been involved with it the quote-unquote evangelicals been involved with it. I don't know if they're just grossly naive.

I don't know what their problems are, but They they don't realize at least I would like to think they don't realize well Some of them don't realize I I have my doubts about others, but some don't even realize that they are they have been used and that the The LDS apologetics community is just laughing their heads off Going I cannot possibly believe that these people have handed us This kind of victory handed us this kind of endorsement just unbelievable we will never have to address a meaningful issue ever again because we've got so much stuff we can throw out now to derail conversations and to distract people all we've got to do is quote Richard Mao now and Mao now and We won't ever have to deal with any of the the tough stuff that we haven't been able to deal with all along.

We can just throw all this stuff out there and and that's that's pretty much it and So I started you know When you when you're somewhat the lone voice at that type of situation it's not that we stopped doing the hour each is just that you know your your passions move elsewhere when It's a whole lot harder for me to deal with alleged evangelicals with alleged Christians Who become the the servants of evil in essence By betraying the truth that is to deal with with straight-up heretics.

You know it's Walter Martin Put it that way. It's the one I said you know I I'm glad that Benedict the 16th Pope because as Walter Martin put it I'd like my heretic straight-up, please Thank you, and it's a whole lot easier to deal with someone.

Who's straightforward than it is to deal with the others and and That's that's the case I would much rather you know I have something to say to a believing Mormon a Mormon who is unafraid a Mormon who will not You know soft sell Joseph Smith a Mormon who believes of Brigham Young said and says excuse me but anyone who honestly reads the sermons of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young and The the Twelve Apostles and they went to Utah and Reads what these men said knows that the Mormon Church claimed clear and explicit knowledge that God Was once a man living on the planet and was exalted the status of Godhood.

That's not even a question I Mean we first started witnessing to Mormons the young kids were defending that they knew that that's what made Mormonism Mormonism and Now you've got BYU professors going well, you know all we've really got is this one little statement of Joseph Smith and all you've really got is is this one couplet from you know a Lorenzo snow and You know we just don't know much beyond that.

Well, what do you mean you don't know much beyond that your entire temple ceremony is wrapped around The concept of exaltation to Godhood and that God was once a man there are I mean These people will sit there and and I mean, it's the standard farms tactic.

It really is. The the standard farms tactic is when you quote from the Journal of Discourses. Well, you know, that's not scripture and When you quote from Orson Pratt, well good grief, don't you know?

Yeah, you know Brigham Young had to rebuke him and they had disagreements and that's not mainstream and da da da da. Well, guess what sources Millett is constantly quoting from this book the Journal of Discourses The Discourses of Orson Pratt they get to quote whatever they want and they can spin it any direction they want if you dare quote from those same sources and then demonstrate as I did and you know what Rich was saying this and I I We've got to do this, I don't know what's gonna cost to do it.

I don't know how we're gonna do it. But we've got to get is the Mormon my brother back in print it we can do it. We just need somebody who's willing to publish it or You know I'm gonna talk to the folks at solid ground and see what their situation is.

Wouldn't it be cool to take that book because I have it all on on on disk. Take that book add a chapter or two to bring it up to the current situation in response. For example to a different Jesus. You know why nuts because all the documentations there.

I mean I spent nearly a hundred pages just going over. How do Mormons determine what is? Revelation how to determine what is authoritative and then I broke down page after page after page after page after page of citations from the LDS Church into The the categories and we still have a few those left don't we aren't there still some so yeah.

We still have a number of them left, but the number is dwindling fast. Okay, and and I anticipate with this particular Issue at hand and fresh and new again. We're gonna run out of those pretty quick.

Well, and that that's good. I it needs to get back out there, and we need to do something with it but I I took the time to exhaustively document and Break it down into the levels of authority. I mean talk about bending over backwards.

To do what these folks won't do yeah, I'll see if Erdman's will do it. Yeah, that's contract Erdman's and see if they'd like to put this somewhere my brother back in print. Maybe they you know the funny thing is that's exactly what a lot of these companies would do.

That's exactly what they would do. I just try to say see so see we're we're fair. We are now We're Fox and we're the Fox News of competition publishers anyway bent over backwards to Accurately represent this stuff, but the fact the matter is let me just read something to you.

I know I'm I'm sounding rather excited today, but Here's question 5 page 143 for those of you who are who have obtained the book or will obtain the book or taking notes or something whatever page 143 under recurring questions.

Question number 5. Joseph Smith taught that man may become like God that God was once a man. Remember this is page 143. We're finally now getting to this this should have been to any meaningful discussion of the fundamental foundational differences between Mormonism and Christianity this is where it starts.

You don't wait till page 143. If you wait to page 143 either a you don't know what the fundamental differences are and don't tell me Robert Millett doesn't know. Don't tell me that that I mean if he's been running around with Greg Johnson and Craig Blomberg and all the rest of these guys who are a part of the Knight of friendship up in the tabernacle and all the rest that stuff if any of those guys haven't been like really open and saying Excuse me, but the fundamental difference.

They're here is that we're monotheists, and you're not. Then shame on them, but something tells me even then that's the He knows okay. That's why it is on page 143 and not on page 3. That's why it's there right, okay.

How can latter-day saints believe such ideas that is a God's once man? Are they not blasphemous and does not lower the Almighty in the eternal scheme of things? Answer. I Think that I have never opened myself to questions before a group of persons not of our faith that I have not been asked about our doctrine of God the Godhead.

Particularly concerning the teaching of Joseph Smith and Lorenzo snow. I stop. Excuse me Joseph Smith and Lorenzo snow how about Brigham Young and Orson Pratt and every single stinking one of the General Authorities up to only 30 years ago.

Who were very clear about these things. Go read Joseph feelings with go read Bruce R. McConkie come on? Joseph Smith and Lorenzo snow that's why I look at this and I go this isn't non-purposeful. This is very purposeful.

You don't you do not limit if I were to say it's somewhere to ask me a question about Calvinism. And I were to purposefully limit Calvin's teaching on Predestination to Calvin and the first generation of Calvinists am I not trying to insinuate to you that we no longer believe those things.

Or that it's a very limited Presentation whereas the fact matter is any Calvinist talks about those things of course. So anyway particularly concerning the teaching of Joseph Smith and Lorenzo snow I generally do not have too much difficulty Explaining our view of how through the atonement man can eventually become like God.

Become more and more Christlike for that matter orthodox Christianity a huge segment of Christian world still holds to a view of human deification. Now I stop there's another reason why? Is the more of my brother needs to be put back in print is because.

One of the longer and it's at least one of the more accessible. It's not that it's the most in-depth thing on the planet. It's it's plenty in depth for most folks. But one of the longest discussions of this it's actually accessible to people understandable people.

Regarding what quote-unquote deification in Eastern Orthodox theology was all about called the term theosis is in is the more of my brother and That was unfortunately taken out of print by Bethany house a couple years ago now anyway.

That is a I believe a misrepresentation of The Orthodox view regarding deification the Orthodox are not polytheists. The Bible itself teaches that men and women may become partakers the divine nature 2nd Peter 1 for joint heirs with Christ Romans 8 17 Gained the mind of Christ 1st Corinthians 2 16 and become perfect even as our Father in heaven is perfect Matthew 5 48.

Remember folks. This is published by Erdman's just so you are you say to those of you who know Mormonism isn't it going? Yeah, yeah, that's the standard more. That's standard Mormon line that's what the more missionaries say as we talked about on the street corner and Isn't it amazing to discover that it's being published by Erdman's I was just by our amazing high-tech system.

Amazing high-tech system here at the the massive palatial offices of Alpha Michael ministries CD number 442 at a Omin org is the discussion of deification on the Radio in Salt Lake City, and then if if you listen to that one you'll get really somewhat How do I put this?

Frustrated. Because I was up against two Mormons the host of the program was not a host he was a debater and The host of program is a Mormon attorney who I can be perviously it was pretty snotty on the program was pretty short and curt and What you want to do is after you listen to that is you want to get the debate that I did with him The plurality of gods and And What the Bible teaches about that in Salt Lake City because it's absolutely amazing the difference that having control the microphone makes when it comes to Presentation like that what I don't know what the order number for that one is but It's the one with Martin Tanner, and you can look for Martin Tanner.

It should come up Our our very fast Highly complex Technological system Is looking which means rich is over there tapping Explorer or Mozilla or whatever it is. He's easier than I use Mozilla. I detest Internet Explorer, but anyway If if it's ever found I will I will remember to you know to help if I opened up a window there, then it would just show up.

I forgot to open up my super duper Window all right. I go back to reading here. The Apostle John declared beloved now are we the children of God and it does not yet appear What we shall be we know that when he shall appear we should be like him for we should see him as he is first John 3 2.

In addition this doctrine is taught clearly in modern revelation DNC 76 58 1 32 19 through 20 once again Fully responded to in certain books that are no longer in print and need to be put back in print and So we will Certainly pursue that the tougher issue for many Christians to deal with now notice this.

The tougher issue for many Christians to deal with we have to deal with this. Can men become God's 449 sounds right maybe it's 449 anyways for those we're looking at the tougher issue for many Christians deal with is the accompanying doctrine set forth in the King Follett sermon and The Lorenzo snow couplet namely that God was once a man now.

Let me stop once again excuse me. That is a partially true statement. It is partially true. No one can read the King Follett funeral discourse, and I please if you have any interest at all in Mormonism You need to read the King read the King Follett funeral discourse.

I produced the vast majority reproduced the vast majority of it in Is the more of my brother you need to read it. All you get here is a sentence. Joseph Smith was not mentioning this in passing. He presented it as the first principle of the gospel and Mormons for a century believed him more than a century all the way up through I would say Spencer W Kimball.

It was front and center. It was not hidden. It was part and parcel of what defined Mormonism. So it's not just these two sources it's not just Lorenzo snow. Lorenzo snow was simply repeating what was being preached by Brigham Young and By Orson Pratt and Wilford Woodruff and all the rest of the early leaders of Mormonism.

There's no question of any of this. To limit it to only two sources like this is to again prey upon the fact that Ninety seven point five percent minimally of the people who are going to be reading this book Don't have any Knowledge whatsoever of the background of these things and so they're they're they're not going to even know that they're being taken to task.

That they're in essence being Deceived at this point anyway name that God wants a man. Latter-day scriptures state unequivocally that God is a man a man of holiness. Moses 657 who possesses a body of flesh and bones doctrine covenant section 130 verse 22 quite true.

These concepts are clearly a part of what Mormons called the doctrinal restoration. We teach that man is not a lower order or different species than God. I'm glad that made it in there. This of course makes many of our Christian friends extremely nervous If not angry where it appears them that they are pulling that we are pulling God down and thus attempting to bridge the creator Creature chasm.

Well, there is no question of it. No question of that at all. I Mean if God Was once a man Who lived on another planet like you and I? How does that not destroy that chasm? That is a question. I just realized I just now look to the clock.

Is there a particular reason do we have something new that we need to cover today during the break? No, okay. All right. We'll just keep going because I've thank you. Well, we'll have something new the next time maybe Thursday.