Are These Churches Doing This Wrong? | Season 3 Episode 7

Welcome to the Point-Taking Podcast

Welcome to the point-taking podcast. I said I wanted you to say. Who's there. Knock-knock. How. That's. Who's there. Okay. Boom. Bop. Who's there. How. Welcome to the point-taking podcast. I'm the host of this podcast.

Hunter to the right. Yes. Hundreds back everybody. Yeah. I'm back. Yeah yeah. We made a couple jokes but.

Back to her happy you back because this is the second week that we both like all.

Three of us have been here. We were as far as the season. Oh yeah. Yes. The last episode that I reacted. Yes. I'm in. Yeah. The greatest episode of all time. Yes. To my right is Anna. Last name. Welcome Anna.

Thank you. And joining us. As always from day one he came. Pastor Josiah. Guys today we're gonna be talking about a whole lot of things. By a whole lot of things. I mean one thing. Yep. And that one thing is communion.

How Communion Is Usually Done

Talking about communion. Yeah. We got it. We got a little bit of contrivacy as the English would say about communion. So let's get right into it. Communion in June. Okay. Can somebody explain to me how communion usually happens.

Like at our specific church. Like when you go to a church and they say all right. Communion is today. What do you expect. The little the little.

Crappy paper wafers and the grape juice and then then being passed along the seat and everyone yeah so like you pass them down the row and like each person takes them and then you know you wait until everyone has one and then they say you know eat of this like my body and then drink of this like my blood and do all of that.

That's how I was raised like how we did it but now our church here we go up and like family units and to the tables and we'll all like gather around.

And do it see here's where the controversy okay the controversy we hear. I recently heard multiple churches actually around our area do communion a little bit different. By a little bit of course I mean a lot of it different where they will have it like all your stuff so you have your grape juice your Welch's.

If they know what they're doing then you'll have your little bread bits.

Whatever it is the paper way first. Yeah the paper. We have good we have good.

I hate Welch's grape juice but I hate the idea of not participating communion more. I don't know any other company that makes grape juice when I think of.

Grape juice. That's what. Well I've asked Donovan before. Cuz I hate. I don't think they might. Cranberry. Yeah. I think I'm decently confident. No. But I hate grape juice. And I always ask my husband if he's also jungle juice for me.

No they don't scrape. Drink. Man. It's not good juice. It's true. I used to. I would love.

To talk about the difference between grape juice and grape drink but it's different for yeah I hate you're saying that. You're saying that's not the topic.

Okay okay got it okay got it just just close everyone. But at these churches.

They'll have their grape drink and their wafers just sitting there and for anybody to grab and do whenever by themselves take it home like they'll have it sitting out and you'll show up and you'll grab it and you bring it back to your seat.

And if you were raised like we were like if you expected something like what Anna expected you'd have grabbed it taking it to your seat and be like okay. Well instead of handing it out they just want you to pick it up on your way.

That's fine. And then you would have waited for the pastor to be like all right do this in remembrance of me. But then they would pray out and then you would just be left there holding your grape juice in your wafer and being like what's going on.

So the big question to me is if that happens is that good. Is that bad. Is that an issue. Because right now we have some confused Christians out there about this topic so to be clear what you're saying is there are some churches that will have the bread and the wine or the bread and the juice whatever off to the side for you to take of your own pleasure of your own choosing take home do it whenever but not all together that one right.

They do not at least set aside a time in the service to do it's just like at your own discretion and our our task today is to discuss is that good bad or neither. Yeah let's clear up some heads. Okay.

The Lord's Supper, Communion, and the Eucharist

Okay the Lord's Supper. For my Catholic friends out there the Eucharist this is a good title. It means thankfulness or maybe sometimes called communion without sounding too harsh the word communion is community group setting.

So so so if we're asking is that communion. An atheist can answer that by saying no because it's not done in right communion. Right. What if you call it the Lord's Supper. Okay that that. Okay the Lord's Supper.

My answer to that would be is there anything inherently wrong with that man to be no. If you're asking me if doing that is what God commanded us to do in the New Testament my answer would also be no. So no I don't think there's anything wrong with that but if you think that is following the guidelines we have set in the scriptures I think you're mistaken.

So maybe just a couple quick examples. And then I'll let someone else hop in. So first off at the Last Supper when she is instituted that practice it was very intimate. They were close together they ate together they drank together which by the way at this church the reason why we normally do them a day that's on big breakfast is because the idea behind it was there was a fellowship and actually eating together.

Right. And then it was intimate they prayed they fellowship they talked and they gave thanks together they took a moment to reflect on. Okay this is my body which is broken feet. That's what this symbolizes this is my blood of the new covenant for you.

So then we fast-forward. 30 years to Paul 25 years to Paul telling the church at Corinth this in 1st Corinthians 11 he says when you are gathered together 1st Corinthians 11 as often as you do this you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes the whole point of Romans.

1st Corinthians 11 is breaking down disunity bringing about unity. And the thing that should unify us is the sacrifice of Jesus if go if don't even take my word for it you just read 1st Corinthians 11 you'll see the whole purpose of it.

What's supposed to be a unifying a unifying thing for all of us. So there's just my shotgun approach. And what do you.

I mean I agree with you on the grounds of it is important for the church body to do that in the aspect of a community because so oftentimes I mean especially before you do communion like with our church you know you repent you go to the person that you have beef with within the church you get a clean slate you clear your conscience per se and so if you do that individually it gives you the option to like escape into yourself and not to be held accountable by the and so I would think that that would be really important.

That's just like my.

Take on. Even even just to play Hector for a minute. I need to have. I'm wearing the Hector hat. Okay. Hunter. Anna Josiah. What do I do. Hector's a bratty teenage girl. Maybe I can't make it the church.

If you're saying it needs to be done in the context of local church. What if I'm homebound. How does that play into it. Are you asking the question to us or to yourself. But. Like to. I was asking it to you guys.

Okay. I didn't know if this is part of my pastor. Jeff. Okay. Hector's gone. Pastor decides back so I can also.

Contribute now right. Okay I do not know. I would assume that like somebody from the church body like one of the deacons would take communion to those homebound people and would be able to do communion with that homebound person.

So here's.

What I think. But that's just you know I'm not sure that I am convinced it needs to be with the local church because the church is any believer right. And if it needed to be with a the big group then Jesus did it wrong because he only had 11 other guys right.

So the way I'm thinking is so long as you have some type of you're not doing it by yourself that's my thing. You want to commune and you want to fellowship and in order to do that it needs to be more than one.

So like if you're homebound and your family is there and you have that communion then you can lead that communion and do that there. Hundred percent right. But.

Most of the time if you're homebound. Well it's like most of the time if you're homebound you're you're an elderly person and you don't have a lot.

Of family. Anna's right. And maybe and maybe maybe we're not even all aware. That's exactly what we do here Christian last time and he took a couple youth with them so he could teach them. What is the minister.

Somebody. Oh it's fantastic. Yeah that's exactly what. Now we took those pre-made ones. Yeah. Yeah. That's what he did. Paper wafers. He said he won't be doing that next time. I don't.

Think what's funny I don't know that your mom make them yeah they're so scrumptious man. I used to hate communion so I kept it now I love it. Oh yeah sweetbread no I tried to get Donovan to drink it and he's like no you can't like I can't do that you have to drink it I literally take it like so I agree with.

Anna I actually agree with what you're saying too in the sense of the local church. And of course I do think it's important to be part of a local church. I think Jesus would agree right. But as far as communion the idea is that you are doing it with other believers not by yourself.

I think that's a pretty key thing. I think this is an area that we really struggle in mostly probably in the United States and then in certain maybe denominations the United States. And here's what I mean.

Let's see if I can explain this in a connection that makes sense. Now the churches you mentioned earlier probably have great intentions with that. So I don't want to. Okay. But we live in a time where everything is so personalized to me where literally I can make it set up on my phone where I never hear an opinion different than mine.

Yeah that's insane to me. We live in a time where everything is about convenience for me my time my schedule my my my my that I think sometimes we're in danger of letting that mindset bleed into the church.

Sometimes to where we care more about and I say we we care more about what's convenient whether than what may be best for the body of the whole what may be more convenient for me. I think we all fall into that danger sometimes.

And I'm not saying there is a direct line from self communion to that but I do think there is a possibility and a danger of it being more of that style of convenient and beneficial to me where I don't have to be vulnerable where I don't have the fellowship where I can.

What would you say isolate myself. Yeah well and that's what Hunter was saying too is like a lot of people will try to isolate themselves especially like in.

Today's culture because think about what you're saying Jesus said as often as you eat this bread and drink this wine you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes. You are out loud saying I'm on this team and that is my standard of living.

Well if you don't take things like that publicly people don't necessarily hold you that standard. So I think a good question to come from this would be let's say that you are one of those homebound people that are older and that have nobody there their church does not reach out to them they don't have any family and they are just like by themselves on their own.

Is there anything accomplished by them doing the Lord's Supper. My answer would be in that scenario yes what would be accomplished was yours to being faithful and obedient when others wouldn't be. But you should seek every opportunity for it to be in communion as possible.

That's a sad scenario you just described right. I'm afraid that never be said about any church at least in this area I would hope. But or any church anywhere. But yeah I would say at least you could say that you're being faithful even if others weren't.

Yes true. Now here's another question I have for you based on what you said earlier. So earlier you said there's nothing outwardly wrong but it also does not accomplish the goal that Jesus put forth. Can we go into a little bit how those two can balance.

If we have a goal set by Jesus right to do this and if doing it in a way that does not meet that goal how can it not be outwardly. It's not outwardly wrong to eat bread and drink juice by yourself. Karma.

But if you think that's communion fooling yourself you're fooling yourself. So it's not like our topic from last week where it is outwardly wrong right right someone there's nothing outwardly wrong with eating bread and drinking wine.

But if you think that is and you doing that is communion right. Then you absolutely for example there's nothing wrong with worshiping God on the lake. But if you think that replaces the command to be gathered together you're fooling yourself.

There's nothing wrong with eating juice and drinking bread and remembering the sacrifice of Jesus. Comma. But if you think that is a replacement for communion you're fooling yourself. That's what I was trying to say.

That's very true. Because we're seeing I'm noticing a pretty large increase in people who will and you said worship God on the lake and that's been a joke around here ever since I was a little kid you know because it's funny and it's very true because so many people do that just like well the bass or brim or biting today so you know it's sunny.

It's.

You know. May football season. You know. I can worship God from my chair right.

Right and it's just like and right now I'm seeing an influx of people who do not go to church and they will you know maybe watch a sermon in their living room or just you know have church in their living room.

And by have church they I mean they sleep in and make the lunch and have time maybe with their spouse or something but you know there's a lot of people saying yeah I mean I can do this from home. So what can we give what specifically might be wrong with.

I think that scenario was exacerbated with COVID because there's a lot of people. I mean no churches. Yeah no churches were open. We did you know like.

The whatever your dad did. Facebook live. Yeah I did. Worship from home. I had to go out back so my roommates wouldn't wake up. I think we ended up being closed for.

Five weeks eight it was eight. Yeah that was the most depressing time. It was so because I told I remember telling my husband because I was our work was open. I worked and I worked in the medical field at the time.

So both my husband and I were going to work so we were only seeing people that we worked with we weren't seeing our church family who are also our friends and like you know our family family. And so I just remember being so depressed.

And I'm like I just I like don't know how much longer I can go on but COVID exacerbated that to where churches were closed and then so many people were afraid to return to church after churches open there was a lady actually worked with and her and her husband still to this day have not been back to their church because they are so afraid of getting sick and I feel like and that they are back at Kroger they are back at the zoo.

Yeah they'll go and they'll do they'll do things like that will there go. But they still like just tried to be off by their own but they're they've been so used to isolating themselves and they're no longer a part of the church body and it's like and to me that's dangerous because you're not getting that accountability.

You're not getting the fellowship that Christ calls for in the New Testament. And so I think it's very damaging and people should just they're just using as an excuse at this point like everything's open now if you want to wear a mask to make you feel more.

Comfortable go ahead. I always like to when I bring hypotheticals when I bring stuff like this I would like to give the benefit of a doubt you know hey maybe this person legitimately believe they can accomplish the same thing at home with their spouse that they can you know at in the church building but in reality majority of the time somebody told them hey what you're doing is wrong and you need to be held accountable for this and you need to change that and they said I'm gonna do church on my own house now because I'm tired of this you know it's.

Like because that was embarrassing or that. Well or people don't get like this couple have not been confronted and they're an older couple. They're probably like in their 60s and so no one had confronted them and be like hey you probably should really do this.

So they've just become comfortable. I don't think they'll ever go back to be quite honest because they've just been so comfortable doing this and it works for them. Okay that sentence I want everyone.

To remember that sentence it works for them. I'll start. Okay you just handled that one. And hunter mentioned these nine times out of ten we're dealing with people who have excuses for other stuff and they're just clouding it with with.

In other words they didn't want to be held accountable or change their life or whatever. So but I'll deal with the if I may the what. If someone genuinely believe sure that they can accomplish the requirements that God has for a church with all the love with all the humility I can muster that shows a profound ignorance of what God intends the church to be profound.

I would struggle to believe anyone has read the New Testament with an intention to obey. I don't mean that to be rude. I mean that genuinely. Let me just give you an example Hebrews 10 24 and 25. Now if I were to pull the average church-going religious person Muslim Jewish Christian whatever and ask them why do you go to church.

Nine nine times out of ten they would say to learn about God. Yeah. Which of course don't hear me say for a moment is wrong. In fact Hosea says my people my people suffer due to a lack of knowledge. However listen to what the writer Peter says our intention for going to church should be and let us provoke one another to love and good works not forsaking the assembling ourselves but encouraging each other.

And all the words you see the day drawing here one more time. And let us exhort provoke each other to love and good works not forsaking the assembling ourselves but encouraging each other. The writer Peter says you go to church for other people.

The writer of Hebrews says says yes to learn about God. And learning about God should inspire your heart to show that love to others. You are here to provoke others to love and good works to encourage others.

Okay. That can't be done in your house with just your immediate family. Strike one number two. And this is the part where I'm most uncomfortable saying I didn't used to be because I'm a pastor now. But I have to say the whole counsel of God so I can't.

The Bible teaches you to be under church leadership. The fact the fact the Bible tells you how that leadership supposed to be set up with a pastor or elder with beacons. Okay. The Bible says that we should sing songs together.

So the Bible says. The Bible says that there should be preaching in the church. The Bible says that we should bear one another's burdens. The Bible says as iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

The Bible says confess your faults one to another and pray for one another. You may be healed. The Bible says on one's own many fall. But in the counsel of many there is wisdom. But the Proverbs the book of Proverbs could almost be used more than a New Testament for describing why you should quote go to quote church.

But at any rate I don't know how any of those commands can be obeyed in the confines of your own home. Period. Now listen I said before there are some homebound ladies I have that do more ministry with their phone.

It's not one of these phones with their phone then other people that sit next to members their whole lives but never talked to them. But apart from scenarios like that I just don't know how those commands can be obeyed in the confines of your.

And actually that's not true. I do know they can't right in the confines of your own home. So just anyone who genuinely thinks that I would I would challenge them to compare that thought process with the Word of God number one number two.

And just stick with Hebrews 10 24 and 25. Provoke one another loving good works. Don't forsake the assembling of ourselves. The assembling of ourselves. I don't care if it's in a church building. I don't.

It doesn't matter to me assembling ourselves. So anyway that that would be my answer that. But I would I would ditto what Anna has already said and what you've already said that nine times out of ten they got the feelings hurt for something else.

I'm trying to find an excuse to not do what God's commanding them to do. Yeah. And I think that's really a big part of it is those verses that you're sharing the counsel like how many did he just share where it said many.

So like I feel like people run with the idea because right now we have a whole lot of the new wave is casual by the way like millennial on down. If you have any churches run by run by younger pastors you'll see these churches with the hip names or whatever.

The name of the game is casual and the name of the game is saying well you know you don't need the this that or the other. And so people run with this birth with this idea that dude yeah the church is not the building.

Correct. That's right. That's correct. But but they take that idea and say well the church is not the building. I'm the church. My wife's the church my son and daughter are the church. We can have church in the house.

And then they forget that they also need the counsel of many and the accountability of many. Because I promise while your spouses can be great accountability partners they are not sufficient right for what you need.

That would be correct. Yeah. Yeah. So like they're a great tool. But if you there's only one in your shed then there's a whole lot not getting done. So let's run with this communion. All that being said I wanted to cover the church at home topic because I felt that was the natural branch to this.

When we have these churches that have the communion you know stuff set aside for you to grab and take on your own. Is it outwardly sinning for that church to have that there for you to do that. No. Is it accomplishing anything or fruitful in any way.

No. Therefore should they spend the time money and space in their building to do it. No no unless they tweak that system a good bit. I would start with maybe a time to take it like as a community like kind of like an.

Altar call almost right. Just a certain time anyone who wants to come down and take it you take it and then you have the option of taking it with like a.

Family unit or even if they just have that spot and somebody there you know. Or and you and your family go up and take it and it. It can be communion can be you and your family. Just you need to have a time to actually do so I think.

Can we agree on that. Is that a that topic covered. I think we can cover that topic pretty well. Can I get a time check. Because I have another 323. That's not bad. Let's run this. Can you read that. No I don't want this edit out.

Can you read that. Right there. No you just write that. Yeah. What the green. Yeah. Yeah. I did it quickly. So you wrote that. You can't read it all right. Well no. Because of the glare. Okay. Okay. No.

Because I can I can remember. Okay. Yep I remember. Now I've got a hypothetical question for you guys. Just like my third favorite category of have this friend who is a friend. Okay now. Um so I have this.

I have this hypothetical questions for you. I'm just remembering how the podcast ended last week. You thought that was hilarious. That was so funny. Man when you said wolf in sheep's clothing I I really did.

I thought you were saying you're a furry. Anyway. Um hypothetically let's say that you had access. You and you alone had access to this ability. Would you want to travel forward in time and visit your own funeral.

Whether You Would Visit Your Own Funeral

No. Okay. But I'm gonna have to have a why. I mean the exact reasons.

I like my initial thought would be I would probably not know some of the people that would be at my funeral because this is in the future depending on how far off. I don't know how long I lived I don't know like all this stuff and I would just I just like being oblivious to certain things.

I don't need to know things like how I died and see like how many kids I have and like how old they are when I die or if like I died before my husband's like now I just know see all the family who like you know went before me and who's left I.

Just know that made me too sad. I think if I look forward to my funeral would that also mean when I came back I would know how long it was how well you pay.

Attention. Okay yeah because you look at the program you see your date of death. I.

Mean you can be there for as long as you want. Okay. It meant that I would know how I died. And when I would die I would say no. And here's why I know a lot of people think well if you live like you're dying you lose like every day is your last day.

I feel like I would negatively when I came back be concerned with how it was I was gonna die and would not do things that I need to do because I'd be concerned with. Okay that will be. What if it was a closed casket and you had no idea when you were gonna.

I mean like how you were gonna die. I don't need all that like in my life. Um. Okay let me give you an example. Yeah. Like like I'm talking a wizard. I always like to go with wizards. A wizard pulls you you know into a cavern like Shazam and he says I'm gonna let you see your funeral.

If you say yes you can come back whenever I don't see anything fruitful. That would happen. Yeah. I only see bad things that would happen. Right. Yeah. I only see negative. What about you. Oh no. It's a definite no.

Why Seeing Your Own Funeral Would Be Spiritually and Emotionally Harmful

Okay so for me I would not. That would destroy me mentally like I don't want. I don't need that extra stress. I don't want to be in a place where I'm present and I'm dead. And then I see. You know. Cuz my you know what.

My biggest fear is. You know my biggest fear is let's say I did it right now. And then I go to my funeral and nobody has aged at all. And my fiance standing there and like oh my god. And then I show up back.

I'm like but here here's what I've learned while I sat here and I pondered this question for myself I have a theory that anybody who says yes to the question maybe has an issue with self-importance. Why.

Because I feel they want to see who's there and how many people are there. Yeah. I feel like that question is designed for the people who want to be like who's all sad right now. And Anna wasn't there and then you came back.

You like I'd be like how are you doing Anna. Screw you. Yeah. Like you got more important things. I know you. I know you're not dead. You better hope you were dead. That's a good.

Point though that you made because a lot of books and I'm going like with teenagers. Yeah because a lot of them are like very conceited and just think about like you know some are suicidal and they think like oh you would all be at my funeral.

It's like stop. I say that lovingly. What my funerals. Like. You know. For me my thing I'm gonna be dead. I don't care. Do whatever what you want. You know. Hold on hold on. You know what my husband said he was gonna do with my ashes.

What. Cuz I was gonna be the tallest peaks in all the realms.

Today knowing Donovan. Oh I'm scared to say. What do you think it would be like something sentimental and like heart. Put him in some chest and then play a.

Game with. I don't know what he's gonna throw him in the trash. I was like.

Are you freaking kidding me. And he's just like. Next podcast topic affection.

Towards your spouse he's like no I wouldn't do that. He's I don't know. We talked about like putting them in like some of my favorite flowers or whatever like planting them but I'm like you with legit from.

I said no. I'm throwing you in the trash because you'll probably die before me. I'm throwing you in the trash. Yeah. Why do you think. Because he told me he cannot. I cannot die first he said I'm.

Gonna fact-check myself real quick because I just lied and I realized I lied. I've always wanted a Viking funeral. How to be sent off like I want to be sent off and I want my eldest son to set me a blaze.

Wouldn't that be awesome. I don't care if it's in a pond. I just want me in a little boat filled with kindling and you know lighter fluid and then my eldest son to shoot a bow and arrow the way I taught.

But here's what I want to happen. I want to be there. And he misses the first one. Yeah. And then the wind blows the boat right back to start all over and then pastor whispers you're such a disappointment.

That would be hilarious though. That's awesome. Yeah that's the only reason I would say yes is I would just want to see. Did you make it a Viking funeral. That would have been dope but if not I understand cuz I'm.

Dead more than me but I'm just like well my dad passed away a few years ago and like my brother was a lot closer to my dad when he died and he was just so like I could tell he was overcome by just being overwhelmed with the whole situation and like trying to make it perfect and like my dad wanted like a particular casket but it was like no joke $8 ,000.

And I looked at my brother I said we cannot afford that dad is dead he will not know anything. We're just gonna pay for whatever we can afford. And that was when I think my brother was like 26 and I was like 22 and I'm like we he's dead.

He's not gonna know anything. It's gonna be buried in the ground like you know it's cheap.

A Viking Funeral and the Cost of Burial

Setting me on fire while I float out into the pond. Yeah you just get a little canoe. I don't know it's a bottle of lighter fluid and something that floats.

You know I'm saying that's why you just go to Mississippi and you know when I've.

Got an office quote I've got to share when you just said that it's welling up within me. Yeah Michael goes to the was it the how do you say that word. The Wally the Diwali thing with that. Right. And that yeah Diwali.

And Kelly's there in a whole family and there's a lot of celebrating the Hindu festival Diwali. Okay. And then Michael thinks he's got s'mores and it's not s'mores at all. Something spicy. And then the cameras like why would you try that.

He goes it's graham cracker marshmallow and chocolate. How hard would that have been when you say it's lighter fluid. And an arrow. Yeah. That's definitely the coolest way to die. Guys that's gonna be it for the podcast today.

If you have any questions if you have anything that you wish that we would have covered have anything that you we did cover and you thought it was good or bad. Share what you think. Drop a comment like subscribe.

If you have any questions you want us to cover on the podcast please please please please please send those in. You can email us at listen point taken at gmail .com. You can drop a comment for your question.

You can also find us on Instagram point taken Christian podcast comment on any of those pictures or send us a DM. We can keep you anonymous if you'd like to share your name that as well but send in those questions.

If you want a Viking funeral even Nixon drop that in the comment as well. Viking funeral is the.

Way to go. Yeah we suck at your job. Yeah it's just like link in the description.

I just want to point out the comments would agree you helped none with me as far as like me at the end when I was trying to do this because it was your.

Job I told you I wasn't gonna be good at it you sure you know. What. How about we.

All do this job together but until next time deuces she did it. I probably will. Please do not.