Provoked: How to share the Gospel LDS w/ Wade Orsini

Brothers, what we do in life echoes in eternity.

I mean, this is what's wrong with the Christian church today. We don't know who God is, and we don't know who we are.

This is where we hold them. This is where we fight. Officer, you need to repent of your lawless conduct.

You don't know the law, and yet you pretend to represent it. That's not law enforcement, sir.

That's being a thug. We will not stop fighting and bothering you all until this monstrous, barbaric practice of legalized abortion ends, and we are teaching our children to do the same.

God's Word says that the shed blood of innocent humans cries out for justice, and mark my words, they will have their day in court.

Nobody gets saved by being treated nicely. They get saved by hearing the gospel. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the

Word of Christ. If we don't open our mouths and commend Christ, we're not loving

Him, no matter what we're doing with our hands. What's going on, everybody?

Welcome to another show of the best podcast that was ever created, and that will be

Provoked. Why do we name it Provoked, Desiree? Well, we would like to provoke the brethren in the area of evangelism, rescuing babies, defending the faith, and destroying cultural idols.

But wait, the church already does that. What's the need of this podcast? We would like to come alongside the local church, and that's it.

Yeah. Hey, we just want to tell you, just go tell people about Jesus. It's not that big of a deal.

I hear so many excuses of like, well, I'm not gifted in that area.

Not everybody's called to be an evangelist. I don't know how to do that. Okay, so what about somebody that's like, that's good for you,

Pastor Zach, you're gifted. You got the nickname, the Calvinist cowboy, but what about me? I just, I don't really like to do that.

Well, no, there's gifts, but we all are called.

I mean, Mark 16, 15, go in all the world and proclaim the gospel. So it's something that is part and parcel of the

Christian experience. We all have our different gifts, but that's something that we all have to do, communicate the gospel message.

And that's what you see all throughout the book of Acts, right? It wasn't like only specific people. It was the church was going out proclaiming.

And so when people are like, well, um, I, I don't want to do it yet.

It's just, it's just our reluctance to do it because you know what? The Christian church will do. We always acclimatize to the most comfortable position in life.

That's what humans do. So we'll try to, we will manipulate even Christian doctrine to fit in with our need for comfort.

And like somebody once said, this has said, um, you know, evangelism is like the wax nose of the doctrinal systems in the scripture that we can just twist to conform to our ability or our need for comfort and non -confrontation, stuff like that, because evangelism is confrontational.

So is evangelism for women? Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah. There's, that's a whole nother discussion, but people say, can, can women share the gospel?

Yeah, absolutely. There's no prohibitions in it. The scriptures talk about women not teaching within the church, right?

Uh, but nothing about going outside of the walls and sharing the gospel and, and, you know, included in the historical record of the early church was

Christian witness was, uh, you know, when, especially Jesus, right? The woman at the well, what did she do?

She went in and, you know, witnessed in a sense, I'm not going to say she was like a seasoned veteran, but she went and told the city everything that Jesus had done.

Yeah. So one, one other comment on that, just because it grinds my gears a little bit when

I hear people say that, you know, it was like, I don't have to do that. I'm not, I don't have the gift of evangelism.

That's, you know, um, it's not even that it's the calling of every Christian to go proclaim the gospel in some form.

Yes. You're not, all of us are on a soapbox. Not all of us have the gifts of, you know, teaching and all that, but it's not only that we're called to do that, but we get to do it.

It's a joy. And so when you just put that off on other people, like, well, I'm not gifted in that.

And, you know, for one, do you have a concern for the lost and two, you're missing out on the joy and blessing that comes from sharing the gospel and just telling the world about Jesus and who he is.

Boom shakalaka. That was really well said. And we should do a show on the joy of evangelism because sometimes we're, you know, and it is a task and a difficult one, but there's so much joy into it.

How do we find joy in something that we're so scared to do? Right. Right. Yeah. Anyway, that's our show provoked and we'll see you next week.

No, it's a, we, we want to come alongside the church. Cause in reality it's just a fraction of the church, the professing church that actually goes out.

It's like 2%. And we're actually, there's a lot of professing Christians out there, meaning there's a, just a fraction who actually do it.

So we want to turn that ship around, get more Christians out there, understanding what the gospel is, what the

Bible says about the gospel and what we're supposed to do in evangelism. And we'll see an exponential advance of the kingdom.

Yeah. Amen. So we got somebody on the show today who's one of my favorite human beings on the fellow, on the fellow planet, on the, on the planet, on the planet.

And it is pastor Wade Orsini. He's a fellow apology and elder. Thanks buddy for coming on.

Yeah. Thank you for having me guys. Appreciate it. Yeah. We're totally excited. So we're just going to go with the flow today and just talk about a whole bunch of stuff before we do that.

Yeah. Let's talk about, if you are not in all access member, please sign up to become an apology at all access member where you can get tons and tons of amazing content.

We say this every time, but it's super important and it will bless you immensely. Also reform con is coming right up here around the corner.

We're really looking forward to it. It's going to be awesome. Just some amazing speakers, great time of fellowship.

It's going to be epic. Yeah. We got Toby Sumter and we got Joe boot and Jeff, the ninja

Durbin. We've got a Billy Graham from the deck.

No, he's not going to be there. I'm just a whole lot of people.

There's going to be artistic performances. There's going to be song and dance and a river dancing for Christ, which is going to be a little different, but good.

But there's, it's going to be, it's a unique, extremely unique conference. The reform con, like it's nothing you'll ever see before.

Way like fight left feast is good. Their conferences are way down here and perform cons like,

Whoa, like so much better. We're a lot better people in every way than all those guys.

No, I'm just kidding. We love them. You know what that reminds me of? I went to a mega church before I was saved and sometimes throughout the year they do these big events, you know, in the sanctuary and out of the ceiling would descend these women in like leotards and like wrap themselves up in,

I don't know, blankets or like, and like go up and down. And it's like, this is what it's all about.

It's funny that you say that. Cause that's what Luke and Zach are doing. That's the intro. I don't know if you ever saw that.

It's an old YouTube video, but it's the pastury. It's like an East Easter morning service where we have to like dump all a bunch of money into it and everything.

And so he decides to descend into the front end of the pulpit, like on a wiring device.

Right. So he's in a harness and he's just sitting there. But the problem is that that wiring harness gave him the most worse wedgie that you could even imagine.

So as people are just looking up at him at the most awkward, most ferocious, hardcore wedgie that you can imagine by a wiring system.

That sounds painful and gross. Maybe just preach the word. Maybe just do that.

That's, that's sufficient. Cool. All right, man. Well, we have a lot to talk to you about.

We want to just really pick your mind. I know all this is super fresh because you're a year into the ministry over there at apology at Utah and you are doing so well.

I'm so much better than people know, but yeah. I don't know where to start.

Well, we wanted to just, for those of you who don't know you, we wanted to do just kind of a get to know pastor

Wade. So quick little hot potato questions.

All right. Yeah. So what do you like better, dogs or cats? Oh man,

I'm going to get a lot of haters. I don't like animals. He's like your wife, man.

Yeah. His wife's like that too. Jessica's like that. She really disdains animals.

She hates them with all her heart. It's like we can eat them. Eating them is good. But other than that, it's like, go live in your own house.

I mean, if I had a large property and I had German shepherds and gray hounds outside or whatever, that'd be fine.

I just, yeah, I don't know. I've never been a big pet guy. Right on. Yeah. Because animal worship is a, is pretty, pretty rampant out there in the world.

People. Yeah. I had a, I rent cars on the side, you know, and I think I may have told you that.

And this woman destroyed my car with two of her dogs. And she had the audacity to tell me, you know, my dogs are more important than you are.

And I'm like, Oh my gosh, you doggy worshiper. But you'll see them. They'll spend thousands and they'll put them in little baby carriers and, you know, breastfeed them.

And it's just, it's just out of control. No. Okay. But you, you,

I know you guys have both noticed this, I'm sure. Cause Pastor Wade, you've been out at the mills a ton.

You of course are out all the time. There is a huge correlation between people that are pro -choice, pro -abortion and animal worshipers.

Like I don't think I've ever met someone who isn't like hardcore pro -abortion.

That is not an animal worshiper. Every single one. Yeah. Without a fail. Like Romans one.

Yeah. They worship the creation rather than the creator. And that's just the way that it fleshes out.

Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, one of the biggest things I get at the mill is, and I'm sure you guys do too is, um, are you a vegan?

Well, because I'm a man, they'll say, how can you speak to this? You don't have a uterus or whatever.

And, and I'll say, do you care about animal rights? And they'll be like, of course, yes,

I'm, I'm staunchly for animal rights. So would you care if, uh, you know, puppies were being abused and killed in your neighborhood?

Absolutely. Well, you're not a dog. You know, how, how, how do you have the right to speak about that?

You're not an animal. You know what I mean? Like that's good. Come back. It's really good. Just like foolishness.

Oh, totally. It's just absurdity. Absolutely. Okay. So favorite food. Oh man.

I, uh, my wife knows she would tell you right away. I just love nachos.

I love a big plate of nachos. Yeah. Jalapenos and sour cream. And, Oh yeah. Just give me all the gassy wassies.

Yeah. Barbecue, barbecue sauce on the nachos. Do you like that? Um, just traditional, you know, uh, trashy nachos.

Yeah. We had a big debate. Oh yeah. We had a big debate around here a couple of days ago because, uh, nachos with barbecue sauce.

Oh, sorry. I'm going to say, yeah. But some people love them. Well, I love barbecue sauce on everything. So like some shredded pork on a nacho, like shredded.

I've heard of that. I've heard of like, yeah. Barbecue, like pulled pork. Yeah. Nachos. Yeah.

Yeah. Sweetness with the nachos. Did you try it? Um, no. See, don't, don't knock it until you try it.

Okay. Favorite movie. Oh man. Um, Hmm.

I'm just going to go with the one that I've, I, I watched this like every day as a child, I watched, uh,

Steven Spielberg's hook. Oh yeah. That was a good one. I just loved that movie, you know, um, but there's so many great movies out there.

Roofie yo. Roofie yo. I always, I remember that part. Have to save Maggie. Have to save Jack.

Okay. Uh, favorite book outside of the Bible.

Hmm. You know what? Um, I'm going to have to go with, uh, Alexander Dumas's, uh,

Count of Monte Cristo. Seriously. An amazing book. Yeah. Yeah. Just the, the lengths that the character goes for his, uh, you know, revenge.

I know that sounds terrible as a pastor, but you know, just the redemption that he gets for the wrongs that have been done to him.

It's a, it's a pretty good book. Yeah. It is super powerful. I've never read the book, but the movie's amazing. What'd you think about the movie?

Oh, Jim Caviezel. Yeah. That's, that's good. Yeah. He was phenomenal in that movie. Yeah. I like that.

Okay. What's your most influential theological book outside of the Bible? Oh man.

Hmm. There's been a, there's been a bit, uh,

I don't know. It's a hard one. You know, I think of stuff by, uh,

JC Ryle. Um, I think of, uh, AW Pink stuff, but honestly, right when

I got saved, I just kept rereading and reading, um, uh,

Pilgrim's Progress and I don't know why it just, I really enjoyed it and it brought a lot of truths, um, to the forefront of my mind as a new believer.

And, uh, you know, that's, that's how I imagined myself is just going down this journey and I'm running from the city of destruction and family and things that are trying to keep me from walking that path and, um, just trying to stay on it.

So anyways, I really enjoyed that book. Yeah. Yeah. It's phenomenal. Okay. Favorite preacher, uh, preacher teacher.

Man, that's hard. Uh, Hmm. Like maybe the one you've listened to the most, like the one, like your staple preacher you go to.

Yeah. Well, it's like each one has a different function for me. So John MacArthur, I can just put on and you know, even though again, some guys argue is he fully reformed this or that I can just put him on and get educated.

And it's very, um, I don't know. It's very informative. And then, you know, uh,

RC Sproul, you'll just put on and then he'll bust out the chalkboard and, uh, you'll, but he has this great vocabulary.

He has, he has this great way of speaking. He's just a natural orator. But you know, again,

I got to think back when I was, um, saved and I'm sure a lot of young guys around my age,

I'm, I'm, I'm 36. You know, when I got saved, immediately started listening to Paul Washer.

Because I was raised in a nominal Christian home and I thought I was a believer my whole life.

So I was so drawn to Paul Washer because he was the punch in the gut that I needed, you know, um, when

I got saved. So, so yeah, I don't know that, that I'm just breaking all the rules on your questions, but that's kind of, no, you're right.

I was listening to Paul Washer. I was driving through the mountains last week in Big Bear, California. We went to a funeral and his stuff is just so phenomenally good.

Like even revisiting what he's done 20 years ago and what he still does today. It's just so insightful, like, um, this layered with it's because of his, you know, extreme dedication to it and his, his love for God, you know, his like closeness to, to God.

It's, it's just mind bogglingly awesome. The apologia pastors are right under that, man.

We got some gifted preachers. I always, especially loved when you preached brother.

Oh shucks. Yeah. Thank you, buddy. I would say about Paul Washer too, I think why that like was so good for us that got saved, like cause when was that that you got saved?

Um, only 10 years ago, actually 2012. Yeah. I was like right around now, 2010, 2011, but right around that time was like, you know,

I think that's when the young restless and reformed kind of took place. Right. Like, because America was so malnourished from all this like furtick and hosting and, you know, we're doing all this just, you know, heretical garbage.

And then we hear truth and we're like, give us more, you know, it was so encouraging, you know, um, even like Francis, uh,

Chan back then was solid. Yeah. Super solid. Yeah. So yeah.

He was in Simi Valley, uh, where all my family lived. And so I was, uh, everyone was bummed when he left and he went to San Francisco and kind of started something different, a little, little unorthodox, but yeah, he's just, he's just kind of gone down a different path.

Yeah. Yeah. He has. But, uh, yeah. Back in the day though, his stuff was just his communication capability was just out of the roof.

Very simple, but powerful. All right. Um, we really want to talk to you about witnessing to LDS and get into what you're learning, being a pastor, maybe be helpful for church planners out there perspective.

Uh, and, cause I know it's so raw right now. It's just so filling your heart and mind on a day to day basis.

But before we do that, maybe just quickly just tell us your testimony. Like, you know, where'd you come from and how did

God lead you to himself? Yeah, sure. I'll, I'll try to be really brief. Um, so I was born in, uh, uh,

Northwest of Los Angeles in Ventura County and, um, you know, immediately, you know, my parents grew up in Roman Catholic homes, but they got saved in their early twenties.

And so I was raised, um, from the time I was born going to church, it was kind of, uh, it was called living word and, uh, you know, it was still suits and ties, but it was charismatic.

Hill song stuff was flowing in, you know, old, old Hill song stuff, you know, new contemporary

Christian music at that time. And, you know, um, but it was good preaching and, uh, you know, something happened in my family and my parents really gave in to, uh, uh, just complete drunkenness.

Um, uh, I mean, we went to church on Sunday, but I say we live like hell Monday through Saturday.

Uh, I dreaded especially the weekends just to, you know, what would occur.

Um, you know, you know, my mom has some different sicknesses and things, and it was hard for my family growing up.

I saw people praying around her and circles doing tongues and nothing would leave her.

And, um, you know, I kind of left, uh, uh, even though growing up in it, we'd go there and we'd hit the magic asphalt and turn into great

Christians in the parking lot. It was really around high school that, you know, my parents finally stopped going to church and they didn't make us go.

We, we were living in Phoenix, Arizona at that time we had moved from California. And I just gave myself over completely to, uh, drinking myself, um, uh, you know, drug use and partying and, uh, um, just total debauchery.

And, um, you were in a band, right? Yeah. Yeah. I was in a really lame punk rock band and, uh, we did shows around Phoenix, but, um, what was the band's name again?

Don't do this to me. The antiseptics. Yeah. That was it.

Right. The antiseptics. All right. Yeah. So anyways, man, uh,

I really, I really hit rock bottom and, um, um, I decide to just kind of white knuckle things.

I go to this mega church. It's like the church is what I know. So I go to this mega church by myself. I'm living with all these guys.

They're just drinking, smoking out of bongs all day, playing Halo and Call of Duty in this, uh, four bedroom house.

And, uh, I go to this pastor and he goes, you just need to follow the

Proverbs, son, just follow the Proverbs and your life will get better. So I just, I'm reading the

Proverbs every day. And I just think if I could obey this stuff good enough, then I could, you know, be a Christian.

I'm raising my hand and like doing the, the altar call every single

Sunday. You know, the music is just of course pulling me. I'm at this, uh, mega church.

It's like an assemblies of God mega church in Phoenix. And, um, and you know,

I, I, I managed to stop drinking and partying and doing that stuff. Um, but still

I was a, I w I was still rotten to the core. You know, I was just trying now to whitewash a tomb.

Right. And so I, during that time I met my wife, she was a solid Christian young lady living with her parents, started going to church with her.

Her, her parents said we could get married and I, I fooled them and I said, I'm going to put Christ at the center of our relationship and God, God is my everything.

And they're like, marry our daughter. This is great. And so we get married and I've been not drinking and doing anything, you know, technically bad for like now five years.

Uh, but we're only a year into our marriage. We have our first daughter. And God just brought me to a low point at my job.

I was, I was currently going to, uh, earn my bachelor's all day during the day.

And then I would work a graveyard shift as a grocery store manager at night. And I hurt my back at work to the point where I was walking like curved like this.

I had to use a special cane and I would go into these, um, back surgeon places and they would do live x -rays and inject my, you know, my discs and vertebrae with, uh, with steroids and try to fix me.

And, um, I was just in the most pain I've ever been in my life. I mean, from top down to my toes, my sciatic nerve, just I could move the wrong way.

And it was just like lightning and could barely sleep, could barely go to the bathroom, could barely shower.

My, I thought I was going to have to apply for a disability. And I'm like 20, you know, 25 years old or whatever.

This is unreal. This is unreal to me. And I'm having to take, you know, painkillers and stuff, all the, all these things.

I just go fully back to, you know, um, just neglecting my new wife and my new daughter.

Just, you know, uh, just literally doing my own thing going out watching videos online, drinking completely.

My wife is like, who is this man? Like, who is this guy that I, I thought

I married. And, but, you know, even in that moment, she was very gracious because I think she understood that, you know, she, she didn't nag me.

She didn't get at me. She would just always be in the word and, uh, she would be praying that God would crush me and God would just make me submit to his will and save my life.

And that's what she was doing the whole time. Um, and so, um, basically

I'm at this low point and, and I'm not working. The workman's comp isn't paying me.

I had to sell our vehicles to pay for our rent. I mean, we're about to be kicked out of our, our, our house.

And I put on this video online and I see in the corner online, it says all

Christians must, must watch this. And essentially it was this testimony of this pastor who, uh, who basically came before his congregation.

He had a, he was a Baptist preacher and he had a congregation of over a thousand people.

He had, you know, so many ministries, successful ministries, so many baptisms and all that stuff that they number all the time.

And, and, and, you know, by all means look like, you know, a solid Christian man and he's weeping before them saying that he's never believed in Jesus Christ, but he thought he did.

And he went through, you know, his process of, uh, of why he understands he doesn't believe.

And he really, he really saw himself before a Holy God. Um, he, he really saw his sin for what it was.

And, and that just hit me. I'd never heard the gospel like that before. I never realized that I was a sinner, um, who had offended a

Holy and righteous God. And that was the missing element was I always thought it was a good guy. I would, I would tell my wife,

God's going to give us a pass. He knows how hard this is to obey him. Cause I'm trying to do the

Proverbs white knuckle this Christianity. And here I am realizing at this low point,

I can't live up to this. And the point is that I can't live up to this. And when I, and, and I'm just,

I'm watching this video and my wife is watching me in the corner and I realize I've fallen out of my chair and I'm just weeping.

And I had never really read the Bible before. And I just cry out to God and I say, God, I don't know how to believe in what

Jesus Christ did, but I know now I need to. So if this is true, you need to make me believe it or I won't believe it.

And boom, I mean like everything changed. I pick up the Bible for the first time started just in Genesis and just read right through.

I mean, it was alive to me. Like I couldn't put it down. I became like a madman.

My, you can ask my wife, I bought all these white poster boards from the dollar tree. I had, I taped poster boards all over our apartment walls.

And I have this big Sharpie and I would write down Colossians and Romans and all this stuff.

And I, it looked like a crazy house of scripture all over the wall, you know, Paul Washer and John MacArthur things up on the wall, their sermons.

And, and it just, man, the Lord, I, there's been no going back. And three months later, the

Lord, I woke up on Christmas day three months later and I stood up straight and my back injury was fully gone and they didn't understand how that happened.

So the Lord just healed you. Yeah. Yeah. Just all within a matter of a few months in 2012,

September 11th, 2012. I'll never forget the day. Wow. The Lord gave me his grace, man.

The Lord showed me his love. That's awesome, man. And you're a quick study.

Cause at 10 years of being at the Lord, you are, yeah, mature behind beyond your years, my friend.

That's, that's powerful. Glory to God. Yeah. All right. I felt like I had missed out on a lifetime of, you know, knowing

God and that's kind of like why I went so quick with it. I'm like, I got to know, I got to know this

God who saved me. So that's kind of, yeah. That's awesome. Well, we could stop here because that was a powerful testimony.

So, so amazing. Hey, what we want to do is kind of title this episode, how to effectively share the faith with the

LDS. So that's a huge, I mean, we could talk about this for, you know, 10, 10 different episodes, but maybe we'll try to consolidate it all down and some most important things.

Cause I know you, you are in this every single week. You're faithfully as a faithful shepherd, leading your flock into the field, into the marketplace.

And we see it and we're so thankful for that. But I guess the way that we name this is going to pop up when people put how to share the faith with an

LDS. So maybe start from there. And we'll just, again, we'll, we'll take like a 30 ,000 foot ride over this topic rather than get down into the details, but maybe, yeah, you're, maybe a guy comes in and says,

Hey, I want to share the faith with the LDS. Kind of, where do I start? Where would you start them? Sure.

You know, I, it, it's only been one year and so I don't pretend to, to be an expert.

You know, one thing coming here as a new pastor is I want to remain teachable.

And I've made some mentors here, some other pastors and then also just, you know, observing what other churches do.

And I would say that things have slightly changed here. You know,

I was for, I dunno, a little over two years heading up the Mormon outreach

LDS outreach there in Arizona. And of course we ran into a, you know, an obstacle with these large events at the

Mesa temple not being available during renovation. So during that time is when we got creative and we went to Mormon ward meeting houses all over the

Valley. And you know, that is a unique ministry that is, that is in their face.

That's at their place of worship. And it even challenges us as Christians to go like, you know, okay, is this in the

Bible? And you see the example of the apostles going to the Jewish synagogues, proclaiming the gospel.

You see them going out front of idol temples. So obviously there's biblical precedent for it, but it is totally in their face.

And you know, there we would have stopped if it, if it didn't bear any fruit.

And at the, at the, at the very basic level of it all, of course we are proclaiming the excellencies of him into the desert air.

I mean, we are, we are proclaiming the glories of God, even if no one listens outside of these places.

But you know, it was, we wanted to be respectful. We wanted to, you know, to be able to approach them in a way that would not just put the guard right up immediately.

And in Arizona that, that actually bore fruit. And you know, one guy even left and left the

Mormon church as a result of that. And it's like, dude, if one guy leaves the Mormon church because of two years going out front of wars, glory to God, you know, keep doing it.

So, but coming to Utah, this is their territory.

We are, we are Goshen in the shadows of the

Egyptian pyramids. We are exiled Judeans in Babylon, right?

Like, so it is unique in that, you know, they, they almost walk with a, you know,

I know there might be LDS watching, but some of them you could just tell they walk with this boldness that this is, this is where we came.

This is where we put a stake down. This is, this is our land. So coming to Mecca, so to speak is different.

It's like, we're almost in, this is a, this is, United States does have a

Vatican city and it's Salt Lake city, right? It's like, it's owned by them. It's controlled by them.

And, you know, it's, it's a part of your everyday life. It's, it's not even just part of driving by places on the weekend.

It's your everyday life. It's your everyday interaction, grocery stores, you know, the, the post office, the, the

DMV, like it's all around you. It's everywhere. So, you know, that has bore some unique challenges and getting used to things.

But of course the fact is, you know, we're not in slavery in Goshen. We're not in exile and they have these temples, these idle temples, and it would appear to them as if the foundations go down deep, but they're founded on sinking sand.

So it's just simply a matter of time before they fall. And we, we want to be there for them when they do fall and and catch them, so to speak.

So anyways, you know, I'll say real quick before I go into tactics,

I would say one of the unique obstacles here, besides all that in the darkness here is what they've come to see is a lot of Christian transiency.

So they've seen, you know, big churches from Arkansas come here with a hundred thousand dollars or more.

And when they don't have 500 people by year five, they're out, you know, when they, they see little groups come here throughout the year and they just come and go.

And, and, and it's like, great, you know, you got some tracks out. And it's kind of like this, it's kind of like short term missions versus long -term missions.

And the way I mean that is like, people will go to like Mozambique, Africa.

Okay. And they will go with a bunch of 20 year olds and they'll get to wear the

African garb and robe with tons of colors. They'll eat purple yams for a week and poop in a hole.

And then, and then they don't really do much with the gospel. And then they take selfies to make sure that people in the

States knew that they went to Africa and then they go home and the, and the people who are actually

Christian, number one, feel hurt. And then the people who aren't Christian and who are native go great more

Westerners, you know, coming and going. And so really what I'm articulating is the, it's the long game here.

And I think, I think for so long people have just thought like there's

Utah and it's a little weird and it's Mormon, but it's in the

U S and it really is though, like a mission field. It really is. I mean, we're talking, if we remove egalitarian churches and kind of funky stuff, if you take

Prostant evangelicalism down to its core grouping here, we're talking maybe one to 2 % evangelical.

In a state of over 3 .2 million, that's maybe 90 ,000 or less

Christians. And, and so, you know, that's kind of what we're facing.

We've got to have the long game. We've got to show them that, okay, you've been here for over a hundred years.

We're willing to be here over a hundred years. We'll be here over a hundred years. And so we're all, so will our children.

And that's going to kind of, you know, when they see that, when we, when they see that we're pillars in this community, you know, the

Lord's going to use that and they're going to, you know, they're going to maybe be more bold to leave the church.

And I'm not saying that that's the power, you know, that's, that's not the gospel, but that's definitely an aspect of, of it is just, you know, that Christian transiency that we have to get rid of here.

But ultimately what I, what I figured out you guys is we've got to not do, of course, friendship evangelism.

I'll tell you, I'll tell you really the obstacle. Another obstacle is that so many

Christian churches in this Valley, they don't want to look anything to any degree like the

LDS church. That means wood pews are out. Baptismals are gone.

The M word is membership. The T word is tithe. You don't say those words.

You don't preach on them. You know, you don't wear a suit. You don't wear a tie.

You don't do anything that could look like the Mormon church. And what that means too, is you don't do any formal evangelism either.

So obviously we understand that they have stolen from the Christian worldview.

They were invented by a con man. This was invented by a con man in the 1830s and it has perpetuated since, unfortunately.

But Christianity is a historic faith.

And if you, of course, if you count all the way back to the Old Testament, we're thousands and thousands and thousands of years old,

Abrahamic covenant style. But the point is, is that they will throw out all those things, even though they are good things.

And that's kind of what we see is this course correction that moves way too far.

Okay. And so when we come, when apologia comes, it's kind of like, oh boy.

And they're all, you know, they're all seeing the fact that we're going out.

We're doing things. But I guess where I've added on to what we're doing.

So we go out weekly. We go down to Provo BYU area.

You know, obviously if you look at the statistics, you know, when you have senior elderly

Mormons and then, you know, you know, 50s and 60s, you know, middle age down to whatever, the further down you go, you go, the numbers are showing that they are just like, they're going out the back door so quickly.

I mean, it is overwhelming how many of them are leaving the church, the Mormon church. I hate even saying the

Mormon church, by the way. I say the Mormon organization. We're the church. So it's so crazy how quickly they're moving.

They're moving out. And so we're going to these college areas. We're going to a general conference.

We're going to, you know, believe it or not, you know, it actually bore the most fruit with conversations and getting gospel tracks out was, it was this

Hare Krishna event, this down at this big, this big Hare Krishna temple.

That brings thousands and beyond thousands of LDS. And they do the color dust and they do all that stuff.

Right. And, you know, it just goes to show if you're worshiping, if you're already worshiping a false

God, you're willing to enter the temple grounds of another false God. And but that really, that really bore a lot of fruit.

But anyways, really, what I would say, you guys, is we've got to get to the heart of the gospel.

We've got to show them the grace of God through Jesus Christ. What tends to happen here is an us versus them mentality.

And, you know, a lot of a lot of people who used to be

LDS, but who are now Christian, have sometimes what I call the

Jonah complex. And that is to say they look on these people like Jonah and they want it to be destroyed.

They don't want these people to repent and get salvation and rescue.

They actually want it to be destroyed. And they don't realize that they came from the very same system.

And so what tends to happen in evangelism and, you know, you've got to watch the guys that you're with.

And really, it's just they've been so spiritually abused for so long, having grown up in the

Mormon organization. And so, you know, we tend to start debating rather than getting the gospel out.

And, of course, you guys know, and as well as I do, that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation.

So we've got to sow these seeds. And by all means, we can use things like eternal progression or the history of the church or inconsistencies or use the test of a prophet from Deuteronomy 13 and 18 and show all the false prophecies that have been spoken.

And we've got to show a lot of these things. But those are what

I call sowing seeds of doubt. And if you don't sow along with a seed of doubt, a seed of the gospel, then you've just wasted their time.

You've wasted your time. It's got to be both. It's got to be both. And again, what can tend to happen is we just argue about these kind of ideas that are out there.

And so we've got to focus on the gospel. Man, that's such a great point because, you know, and you know much more than I do now because you've shared the gospel to more

Mormons than I could even ever imagine. But because you can go through all the false prophecies, right? You can talk about eternal progression.

You could talk about the history of the church. You can talk about all the theological inconsistencies. And we've done that.

Right. And you've done that. But at the end of the conversation, are they like, oh, the light bulb went on.

You're right. I'm leaving the Mormon church. Right, right, right. Sometimes that happens. But more often than not.

No, there's cognitive dissonance. They cannot separate because of the consequences that are going to befall them.

Right. They're going to be kicked out of their homes, lose their jobs. So you're absolutely right.

You have to be sowing the gospel or you're really not accomplishing anything at all. Right. And like you said, you can absolutely destroy that system.

You know, you can show all the faults and everything. But it's like you said, the gospel is the power of salvation. So what they go, okay,

I leave the church. You're right. I can see it's all false. But then what? If you're not giving them the gospel, we're idol making factories.

They're just going to go to the next idol. They're still dead in their sin. They still need the

Lord to save them and raise them from the dead. So, yeah. So it's not enough just to demolish the

Mormon theology and system. You have to share the gospel with it.

I'm absolutely right. Go ahead. Oh, I was going to say, just to your point,

Desi, you're exactly right. I mean, they are leaving this system by droves.

And if you look at a study, online community boards or Facebook groups that are ex -Mormon have grown exponentially in the last 10 to 20 years.

I mean, just from like a few hundred to now, some have more than 20 ,000 and it's just growing and growing.

So, yeah, it is one thing to show them that it is false. And so many people are working at doing that.

That's great. But if they don't turn to Christ, then they're just as lost as they were before.

They're just going to fall into the net of agnosticism or atheism or bitterness and rage, which you can, you know, you have to feel for them because the amount of spiritual manipulation and abuse that they go through is just incredible.

So you can totally expect them to be incredibly angry when they come to realize that this is just started by a really good huckster and con man.

But hey, as far as like sharing the gospel with the lost, with the LDS as you're going out to Provo and it's just a part of your regular life, what do you tend to focus on?

Of course, we talked about the need to focus on the gospel, but can we get caught in the weeds talking to them?

Or, you know, when it comes to, you know, peripheral issues, what do you tend to focus that kind of segues into the gospel message?

Yeah, yeah, we definitely can. And we can get in the weeds.

And it's important. We have some we have some rules out there. And I would encourage anyone who does this kind of evangelism to follow something similar.

It's just number one, you know, don't talk over each other. Of course, don't interrupt each other as Christians, because for the most part, we're trying to bring them to a designated end goal.

You know what I mean? And so what can happen is, is all these side things happen. And so as Christians, we get we get zealous and it's awesome.

You know, we just want to, oh, yeah, I want to share that. But that's kind of one thing that we we always talk about is not to swarm and not to talk over, because it's so easy for that to even happen with them.

And so, you know, I encourage people to to keep it on the main things and not to get lost in all this stuff.

So really, for us, the biggest things now we just we just designed like eight gospel tracks that are that are for Latter -day

Saints. They're amazing. Oh, yeah. Those are those are good topic starters.

But the very basic level, if you're a Christian and you're going to meet with LDS, the three things that you should make sure you're revolving around is the nature of God, who who

God is, who is Jesus Christ, according to the word of God, and then what is the gospel?

Because right now there's there's an all out attack on biblical grace.

And I don't mean that in the way that it used to be. You could look at Moroni 10 and Nephi 25 and see that it's a combination of of works and grace, which that becomes the foundation of your salvation, which we know is, you know, a broken foundation to be saved.

But essentially, right now, all their teachers are trying to articulate what would appear to be a more biblical grace, more of an unmerited favor, but then kind of sprinkle in there some of that workspace stuff or just speak about it like it's grace.

But then their next talk and talk and topic is about, you know, making sure you're the perfect person sort of thing.

So really, that's kind of an issue we're running into right now is, oh, yeah, we we think it's just like what you say.

We're not we're not hearing the whole faith without works is dead as much anymore. We're hearing, yeah, we agree with that.

And yeah, we do this. And and, of course, just like any false religion, it's it's it's going down into the depths of relativism.

So everything goes. And they'll they'll admit that, you know,

Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, all of them,

Jehovah's Witness, Christians can be saved. It's like what happened to all of our creeds were an abomination.

You know, it'd be so much easier if there was a line drawn.

And so, you know, that's an obstacle that you're going to run into. If you're listening and you're a Christian and you want to do this, you're going to learn all this crazy stuff.

You know, they can become a god one day. They can, you know, you have to have plural marriage according to the doctrines and covenants to to be, you know, to make it to the celestial kingdom.

You've got to do this. You've got to do that. But really now it's just so squishy.

And so navigating that is just going, OK. That's why it's just got to be the gospel.

Who is God? Who is Jesus? And how can we be saved? Because at the end of the day, they don't know grace.

They really don't know grace. And Jesus is a stepping stone in Mormonism. He is not the cornerstone of our faith.

He is a stepping stone for them to get to where they need to go. So they've got to know the savior who loved them enough to die on their behalf.

And he's just not a savior figure that was made in the preexistence. He is so much more.

He is the monogamous. They ask. He's the one and only unique son. He is God. And so that changes everything.

He can actually atone for sin because he's God. And he can actually represent us because he's totally man.

And they don't know that. And they don't realize that. They don't even know why he had to die for sins.

And so really just hitting at those three areas is going to be paramount.

And just sticking with the Scriptures. You know, obviously, you guys know precept. Just taking it back to the

Word of God. The power is in the Word of God. And so I would encourage people just to memorize

Scripture. You don't have to know all the weirdo stuff.

I know, you guys, like this much about Mormonism living here.

I'm learning more and more. But we've got to know the Word. Absolutely. Yeah, there's so much to it.

That's awesome. That was powerful as far as just like getting out there and focusing on three primary elements.

Where have you seen, you know, evangelists, good intentioned evangelists, which

I'm sure you've seen out there. Where do they kind of fall off the cliff in their attempts?

Like what can we do to really put a stumbling block in front of us or build a wall rather than a bridge when it comes to sharing the faith?

Sure. So it kind of goes along the same vein of the Christian transiency

I was talking about. We don't just want to be people who show up for big events.

We don't. We don't want to be, oh, apology is there at the next big event. Great. You know, we want to be throughout the community, you know, but we don't want to compromise.

So what we make sure we do is we not only plant those seeds of doubt and then plant the seeds of the gospel.

Just about every time we talk with someone, I made these contact cards.

It's got our church email and church phone. And I'm dead serious. I say, look, if anything changes, if you're out here and people can see you and that's making a difference, then take this card here.

I'll even kind of bring it down here. Take this card. This goes directly to my phone. I'm connected to this number, and we will meet any time.

And right now, you guys, we have like two to three LDS who we're meeting with on a weekly basis.

Just on Monday night, a woman thinks she's going to leave it, and she wants to follow the true

Christ of Scripture. So it's like it's kind of back. It's backing it up. You know, we've got to back it up.

We've got to, you know, we don't want to, as Paul says, you know, what harmony does darkness have with light?

Christ with Belial, agreement with this and anything like that. That's just not about being yoked in marriage.

That's being yoked in any relationship. So, of course, we're careful with how we're doing this.

So I'm not saying we're changing from stranger evangelism and morphing it into relational or friendship and earning a right to do that.

We give the gospel, but then we've got to be available. We've got to be there, and that's meeting with them.

That's saying like, you know, just even throwing it out there, being like, hey, we have a ministry where we're willing to meet with you.

No questions asked. We won't tell your family. We won't tell your bishop. Come and meet with us.

You could ask questions. And so that has been a big help as well.

It's got to be both really here, especially in Utah. They've got to see that we're not just trying to give them a tract and head out and be like, you know,

I got 100 out tonight. Well, great, dude. You know, I mean, of course, glory to God, but is there more beyond that?

Yeah. That's what we're trying to accomplish. Yeah. And I think what that is, it's loving them. It's just a way of saying we got to be there.

We got to be a fixture within the community so that they can know that there's a lighthouse here.

And then going the extra mile by saying we'll walk with you, we'll talk with you, we will lay down our lives for you is truly loving these people.

And I think evangelists, you know, really good intention evangelists, and maybe they've seen really bad examples.

They reduce evangelism down to just proving them wrong, right? Like filling their minds up with a lot of Mormon doctrine that they can like stick it to them.

And that's what we do. We just want to argue and win the argument. And we've successfully evangelized.

And that's not necessarily it. Yeah. Destroying argumentation is a part of it, right? And, you know, showing them where the

Christ that they're believing is no Christ at all and who cannot save them. And that a plurality of deity is not.

But those are important things to talk about. But underneath it, it's got to be. Of course. Their motive has to want to bring this person into the light rather than just win a battle with them.

Like an argument of debate battle with them. All that's important. But we've got to love these people.

And that's just that's where I feel like a lot of evangelists just fall off the cliff. They think that I really want them to know as much.

I want them to know how much I know. And it's kind of a glory seeking thing or whatever spiritual seeking thing or an accolade seeking thing.

Rather than just relaying as simply and as clearly as I can the gospel message with love.

Right. Speaking the truth in love. You know, that's, you know, as far as evangelism, you're right.

I mean, regardless if it's LDS, if it's Muslims or Jehovah's Witnesses, it all boils down to just share the gospel with them clearly.

Amen. Amen. I think, too, and Pastor Wade, you can, I'm sure, speak to this more than I can.

But just from visiting there with you guys this summer and that was such a blessing. But I think you have to almost go there to kind of understand.

I'm sure living there, you see it even more. But it's just like the insidious nature of the

Mormon church. And like you said, how it is in everything. And how when you share the gospel with somebody and say they leave, what that means for them.

This is generational. This is their jobs. This is their landlord. This is their community.

Could be their wives. Could be their family. There could be their children, their parents. So what does it mean when someone renounces the

Mormon faith and comes to Christ, they're losing a lot. And so that should give us more of a compassion, like you said, to come around them and be not just like, here's your track.

Here's the gospel. You're in a false system. See you later. No, we're here to come around you and help walk you through this step by step.

Because if somebody's going to leave the Mormon church, they're going to leave a lot.

Yeah, they are. They're ultimately going to gain everything, but it's going to be painful. Very painful.

I'm so thankful that, I apologize, Utah is there to walk with them as far as they need to walk, as far as giving them the support.

And that's what we do at the abortion clinics too. We're like, hey, we're here to walk with you. And we say it all the time, give you as much help as you will allow us to give you.

As much as you will receive from us. Yeah, that's truly loving them.

And that's bona fide biblical evangelism right there. It's powerful. It's crazy because it's so beautiful there and the buildings are impressive and there's so much there, but it is very, very dark because of just the overwhelming influence of the

Mormon church. And so what a light that God has there with our church. I'm so thankful.

It's just such a control. You walk into the city and you see the black eagle.

Remember that black? And you look at that and it's like, man, they have got their just grip upon this whole state and this whole city.

Yeah, we take it for granted. I think Mesa is the second most populous outside of Utah. So I think Salt Lake is the first and then another city in Utah.

And then I think outside of Utah, we're the second most populous in Mesa, Arizona. But it doesn't even touch on what it feels like to be in Salt Lake.

Like you said, that is the Mecca. That is Vatican City. They live and breathe BYU. It is absolutely everywhere.

So we kind of take that for granted when we're out here witnessing to Mormons because they don't have that boldness like Pastor Wade's talking about where they're like, hey, we put the flag down and this is our town.

We still have a little bit of more gospel influence here. So a gospel is needed in Salt Lake City.

Right. And it's going out faithfully. Yeah, it's true. Yeah. You can have. In some ways, you're the visiting team playing at their home arena.

But obviously, what keeps us going is realizing they're the visitors.

This is God's land. This is the kingdoms being built. And all this is going to crumble down.

And I pray before it crumbles that they're walking hand in hand with us. You know, but to your point,

Desi, like there's things that I never thought I would encounter here. We've got a couple of teenage young men, 17, 18, still in their parents' households.

And it's crazy. These teenagers are turning to Christ in different areas, and they're coming to Apologia, and their families don't know.

Or when they find out, they're just, you know, they're irate. And you know, they'll go through their phone or they'll go through like their dresser drawer.

Instead of finding a dirty magazine, they find an ESV study Bible given to them by our church.

And I mean, it might as well be the same thing in their eyes. They're going crazy. What is this, you know?

And we're encouraging them not to take their sacrament anymore, this bread and water falsehood that they do on Sunday morning.

And in some ways, you know, you've got to learn the balance of, you know, they've got to honor their father and their mother.

That's biblical. But they've got to honor Christ above that, you know, that supersedes that.

And just walking that tightrope has been interesting. But we've had to come to the place where we're like,

OK, this isn't just the tracts. This isn't just here's the gospel goodbye.

Like we've had to make sure we have arrangements and extra beds to like if they get kicked out of their home, we can actually like receive them.

You know what I mean? I never thought like that would happen so soon. But we've got to be able to care for these people when, like you say, they lose everything, but they gain everything.

Yeah, man. I think that that's why, you know, Apology Utah is so unusually successful in the first year.

And we had talked about it during our elders meeting the other day. But it's that mixture of grace and truth, right?

Which is the embodiment, the explanation who Jesus is. He came full of grace and truth. And you're having a proper

Christology will always keep you healthy and balanced. Right. And I think blessed, because when you talk about you look at the guys that God is really blessing in an unusual way, like Ray Comfort and others.

They have that balance. You know, it's not only uncompromising, firm truth, but radical grace that would say, hey, if they kick you out, we're going to be here for you.

You can move in with us. We're going to care for you. I think God just, it's so pleasing.

And he really manifests the pleasure that he has in that, which is really showing them who

Jesus is. Grace and truth, telling the truth and showing grace.

And it's just exciting to, so exciting to see. Hey, I don't think I want to go into the pastor.

I think I want to have you back on. We'll just talk about that because this has been such a rich time.

But maybe before we let you go, maybe just share us a story of what

God has done in the life of an LDS in the church. You know what

I mean? A God saving one and bringing them into the flock. And I know that could be a huge story, but you could just kind of give us a cliff notes of what has happened.

Yeah. So, boy, there's so many, there's so many really amazing testimonies.

We get to baptize a 22 -year -old young lady this weekend who went to Japan as a sister missionary.

And she's now found the grace of God in Jesus Christ. And she starts crying about the grace of God when she just speaks about it.

She knows Jesus now. We get to baptize her this Sunday. So there's stuff like that.

And I'll just say real quick, there's this one family who grew up in Mormonism.

The husband grew up in Las Vegas, Nevada. And the wife was from Chile.

And Mormonism down there. Both raised in it. They find each other. They get married.

And they go basically to Alaska, trying to change this whole town so that it would be completely

Mormon. And then they find themselves following now all these offshoots because they see all these errors happening with mainline

Mormonism. And they join an apocalyptic Mormon sect in Idaho on a farm.

And they're basically, they don't even realize it until they're a little bit into it.

And they're working and slaving for this prophetess woman on this apocalyptic

Mormon farm. And so they're giving their money. They're living there on the farm.

And they have their son. And it's just oppressive. And so COVID happens and all this stuff.

And actually, it's amazing. You know the cookies sermon? Yeah. Right?

From Jeff? Yeah. Believe it or not, that is one of the biggest catalysts for LDS out here.

I'll tell you why. Because when they looked to the prophet, their prophet,

President Russell Nelson, to tell them what to do during this tumultuous time, he said, do this.

Follow the government. Do that. And I mean, it just rocked their world. They thought they could go to the prophet.

He would tell them that this is craziness happening or at least something a little more balanced.

And so God used that. They saw that. And then they came down here, wrestled with the idea of coming to Apology at Church, had a meeting with me, and just turned to Christ completely.

I mean, one of those families that just went all in, just studying the Word of God, studying different theologians, just wrapping their minds around the

Trinity and just understanding God and who He is and understanding His grace. And I got to baptize last year all three, the husband, wife, and the son.

That's awesome. Praise God. Yeah, that was pretty cool. Yeah. So cool, dude. Okay, we're gonna let you go in a second, but we want you to, because hopefully the way that we title this, we're gonna have

LDS watching our show. So briefly, can you share the gospel with them?

Yeah, yeah, sure. So the gospel is this.

The gospel is that Jesus is not an elevated man. He is not partially deity.

He is God from all eternity. And that makes it possible for Him to come down and step into His own creation, to take on flesh.

It says that He tabernacled among us, and He is God. And so He lived that sinless, perfect life, the life that you keep trying to live as a

Mormon, the life that you can't live up to, whether it be getting temple endowments or going on mission or getting the stake calling or getting the proper gifts from your bishop or having the perfect attendance or having the right testimony on Sunday sacrament meetings.

When you realize you can't do all that, and your marriage isn't gonna make it through to celestial level, and all these things are falling down around you,

Christ is there, the true Christ of Scripture. He is enough. His grace is sufficient.

You don't need that on top of the foundation of the gospel. He is the root of our salvation, and everything else is the fruit.

He is the root, and our good deeds are the fruit. They are not the basis of our salvation.

Only Christ and His finished work is. So if you want peace with God, if you truly want to cast off the yoke and burden of this

Mormon organization and find peace with the living God, you can have that through the Christ of Scripture.

Because the reality is Christ said it Himself. Many will come in my name, and many will say that they are

Christ. Corinthians chapter 11 says that there are those who will preach a different Christ, a different gospel, and come of a different spirit.

The fact that that's possible, just ask yourself, am I really following the

Christ of Scripture? And so that's just my plea is that you look to yourself, and you look at the perfection of Christ, and realize you can't add up to it, but He can, and He did.

And so believe on His work. Believe on His death, and His burial, and His resurrection, and His ascension.

Believe on that. Have faith in that, and you will be saved. Have faith in the simple gospel of Christ, and you will be saved.

It's not all these other things. It's Christ alone. Awesome. Amen. Powerful, huh?

That never gets old. No, it doesn't. Especially with somebody who actually loves the people that he's talking to.

Yeah. It's beautiful. Awesome, man. You got us in tears over here. We love you. We miss you.

Yeah. We miss you guys, too. Yeah, you're doing so well. We're just so pleased with you and the work that you're doing out there to lay down your life for your flock.

Can I just say something real quick? Yeah. Real quick. I'll be honest with you.

Half the time, I don't know what I'm doing, and the Lord just brings me through new things, and then

I catalog biblically how to do it. Okay, now I know how to handle that. Actually, more than half the time,

I feel like it's on autopilot. I step outside of a Bible study. I look at the church from the pulpit, and I just know without a doubt there's no way

I could do this. It has to be God who builds his church. I just get to watch.

Of course, we work hard, and we labor, but truly, this can't be done without God doing it.

Anyways, I just want to say that because that's who's doing this. Absolutely.

Yeah, we'll just keep going no matter what happens. We'll just stay here. Good. Awesome. It's needed.

All right, man. Well, we'll see you in a couple weeks, and then I'll call you because I do want you to come back on, and we'll talk about pastoral stuff.

Because I know you've learned a lot in a year, and I think there's so much you can impart and teach to young guys in your position who need to hear.

Maybe we'll talk about the stuff nobody else wants to talk about, like the nitty -gritty tough stuff. Yeah, I'd love to.

That's what they need to hear because it's going to hit them right in the face as soon as they— Oh, yeah. They need to know, man. They need to get ready.

Absolutely. All right, dude. Well, we love you. Thanks so much for coming on. Thank you, Pastor Wade. All right. Love you guys.

Yeah. Give Sarah and Bella a hug from me, and tell the Songcrants and the Marshalls we said hi, too.

We miss all of you. You got it. All right. See you. Bye. Bye. Well, that was awesome. So good.

I was like, tear. It's just so powerful just to hear his testimony, to have him walk through what it's really like there.

Because it is intense. I took it for granted. You kind of know about it, but you don't really understand until you go visit.

Yeah. Yeah. He's such a good communicator, too. He's like you can almost just discern the power of God in someone.

The way that they talk, and it sucks you in. I just felt so sucked into what he was saying and how he was explaining it.

He's such a powerfully anointed young man. He's only been saved for 10 years, too.

Yeah. Amazing. God has just done some amazing stuff. Well, we're going to get out of here. Hopefully that blessed you as much as it blessed us.

He is one of ours. He's an elder in the church, but he is such a gift. He's a gift to Salt Lake City as well as all the other apologians over there.

Just working hard, loving them, and sharing the gospel. I'm just so pleased. I can't wait to go over there and spend some time at the end of November.

That's great. I'm so glad you're going. They're such a blessing. They know so much about the city. They took us on this whole tour.

They could have been professional tour guides. They knew all this different historical stuff, so it was cool.

Yeah. They're awesome. All right. We'll go out there. I think what was clear, not only know the gospel, but go out and speaking the truth in love.

That's what we have to do, laying our lives down for those that we're sharing the gospel with. Do it right.

Do it in honor of who God is and what his word commands us to do. You will see fruit.

That's what we want to see, is people come to know the Lord. That's all we want for this podcast.

Right? That's it. That's it. That is the main thrust of our podcast, is just to encourage people to share the gospel, to make

Jesus known, because it's all for him. All for his glory. See you guys. We love you. Bye.