September 9, 2019 Show with Andrew Smith on “Calvin’s Return to Geneva from His Exile (Why This Date in History is Significant)”

The Significance of Calvin’s Return to Geneva

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania. It's iron sharpens iron. This is a radio platform which pastors Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania. Lake City, Florida. And the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth. We're listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com. This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio.

Wishing you all a happy Monday on this 19th. I'm sorry this ninth day of September 2019 and it's my honor and privilege today to have back as a returning guest Pastor Andrew Smith,. I believe the only other time he was on the program is when he came to visit the iron sharpens iron exhibitors booth at one of the g3 conferences at the Georgia International Convention Center in College Park, Georgia, which I will be announcing again momentarily.

But this would be his first time actually on the live show to my memory. He is pastor of Christ Reformed Community Church in st. Augustine, Florida. And today we are going to be addressing Calvin's return to Geneva from his exile.

And why this date in history is significant. In fact, it is our hope that Andrew and I will address a relative or a significant date in history every month from the calendar something that he has grown fond of doing commemorating the special dates in history and We hope to do that on this program.

Starting today and continuing it. As long as God would be pleased for us to do so. But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron radio pastor Andrew Smith.

Thank you so much. Thank you and.

Tomorrow was I correct in my memory that this is your first live show with us. Yes, that is correct. Well. What I'd like you to do is since it's your first Live interview with us. I'd like you to give a summary of your salvation testimony.

Which is a tradition we have here on iron sharpens iron radio typically with first-time guests. But since you're a first-time live guest that will include you in this tradition.

So if you could in my family Virginia or maybe five years old and watching a preacher on TV and It wasn't a I heard the gospel I wasn't even in school yet and explained to me in more detail God's plan to save sinners and so my mother got on the floor set Indian style with me and began to share the gospel and go through the scriptures with me.

And that was really the first time very is a very young child that the gospel resonated with me. I knew I was a sinner. I knew that I was Disobedient to my parents. I knew that I had a tendency to fight with my siblings but even this elementary understanding, I guess you could say of sin was was very real to me and shortly thereafter and Continued in the church.

My parents were heavily involved. My mother Typically played the piano and was part of the choir. My father was a deacon. They taught Sunday school. He drove the church bus. My family actually even would clean the church on the weekend as a ministry and so I grew up in that environment within the church and and Began to grow in my theology.

My father is a is a reader of history. He's a reader of theology and had a very great influence on me as a young teenager with particular reference to the doctrines of grace. Because not all of the churches I was in and we moved around a little bit because my father was an air traffic control.

It's the gospel faithfully not all of them held to the doctrines of grace. And there was even one church in particular that the elder board was divided there were some Calvinist and there were some more Armenian leading people in a search and a quest to understand what the Bible taught and I remember debating with my dad as a very young teenager.

Of course he had already Adopted the doctrines of grace and I was showing some resistance based by the time I was in college my junior year I had fully embraced the doctrines of grace. And was already planning on going into the ministry.

I think an internal calling to preach the Word of God from about the age of eight years old and That calling stayed with me. Decided to enter seminary and be serious about this matter of going into the ministry and So I can't say enough about how God's grace and mercy was upon me from a very young child.

I don't remember a time that I didn't believe in the Lord. I don't remember a time that I did not believe the scriptures were exactly what they say They are which is the authoritative Word of God, and I hardly remember a time I didn't know Christ Moment when I was four or five was when the conviction of sin and regret started bearing some fruit.

Well parents listening with little tiny children running around the house. That is possible for God to get a hold of a child that young four or five years old and bring that child to eternal life and produce Genuine and.

Believable.

Signs of repentance and faith in a child that that young. Even my dear friend. Dr. James R. White of Elfin and Megan ministries. I think he Was not much older than you were when when you were saved. He was certainly a preteen.

I think he may have been somewhere about eight years old maybe younger, but It's really remarkable that your mind by God's grace was able to comprehend these things. I just remember At that age playing in the dirt with toy trucks and not even Having a concern in the world about whether or not the death of Christ applied to my sins or not.

Yeah, and Chris, I don't want to read it. Embarrassing to even share because I think a lot of people might be apprehensive. You know, how could a four-year-old understand these things? But I really believe it's a testimony to the power of God's sovereignty and salvation.

And I just know for me. It's not that I wasn't there was anything exceptional about me. I enjoyed playing in the dirt and doing those things as well. But it's just my testimony that I remember that the extreme weight of my sin.

And I remember being fearful of God's judgment. And to me that was huge. I mean and obviously saw that they were Christians and following the Lord and their Consistency and teaching the Word of God in the home and taking me to church.

I just to me it was a very real thing from the very very very beginning and that's. All the glory goes to the Lord and if there's any glory left over my parents get some credit. But I certainly get the depraved sinner in need of mercy like anyone else.

I.

Don't want to take too much time off of our subject, but there is as you may be fully aware Even amongst Reformed Baptists a dispute over Early baptisms. Most Reformed Baptists are Opposed and are in opposition to very vociferously the nominal Christianity that exists in our country perhaps even predominantly in the Bible Belt and even many of my Calvinist pastor friends in the Southern Baptist Convention will fully admit and Lament over the fact that Their typical experience not in their own churches since they are confessionally Reformed and so on.

But what they have witnessed in the Southern Baptist Convention and other churches and denominations in the Bible Belt Especially is that when a child reaches a certain age perhaps even older than you were Twelve or so they they will be automatically assumed to be Candidates for baptism just because of their age and because they were raised in a Christian home, so they must be Christian.

They really are in essence Pato Baptists. Except They would wait a few years after the baby is born and baptize that baby regardless of if there's any realistic believable signs of genuine repentance and faith in that child and so I'm Asking you do you think that in spite of your experience?

Do you think that? Christian parents and churches need to be very cautious About baptizing very young children and and accepting them as genuine converts.

Yeah, that is that is a major concern one church in particular people there that were simply not saved they were they were not regenerate and I would include in that even some of the leadership of having children walk down an aisle after VBS because they've made a Professionally asking no question having a numbers game and and bringing these people into the church is Not only dangerous, but it's undefinitely the pendulum has swung in our own day to This easy believism mentality and we need to be very wary of that I think.

On the other hand you bring out an excellent point Chris when you when you speak about Pato baptism. And you say that because this is not merely if you love them dearly and and that they're not immune to.

The idea of a child going through confirmation classes and knowing the catechism and and some churches are guilty of just rubber-stamping that process Instead of truly searching out whether or not this child is bearing the fruits of faith and repentance.

Yeah, and many Pato Baptist churches and and as you just said we love our Pato Baptist brethren. I probably interview just as many if not more Pato Baptist on my show than I do Baptist just because I think more Pato Baptist are Getting books published.

Yeah, but and I consider some of my most brilliant and godly Friends and brethren Are among the Pato Baptist, but It seems that in some churches the child would actually have to You know commit armed robbery or burn the church down before they would be considered An unregenerate person.

You actually in some cases have to be an overt enemy of Christ and a scandalous unrepentant believer to be viewed that way if somebody is just apathetic and Unexcited about his faith and you know In many other circles might be considered just a nominal Christian The the Pato Baptist very often not all the time very often would be hard-pressed to question the regeneration in such a person.

Yeah, I it's not merely a Presbyterian problem. It is a problem grandfather Solomon stuttered in the whole halfway to New England. This is something the church has really a right concern. We ought to be very concerned but we ought to preach the gospel to them even as we Catechize them and we ought to as we instill a worldview in them That is that is absorbed with God and his glory and his sovereignty.

Urge them to repeat even the you know. Obviously Presbyterians believe in a conversion. They don't presume Salvation or at least the best ones that I I think that this is a problem regardless of what? denomination we're in.

We have to do a better job of Raising our children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord not assuming their salvation and not being pressured. You know our friends children, you know are admitted to the church and in ours aren't yet.

You know, sometimes pride can get in the way of that first that where pride can really inhibit the spiritual development of our children and We need to be I think very very careful with that and just be faithful preaching the gospel at church and at home.

Oh.

Amen. And when in your life.

Did you?

Receive the call from God to enter into the pastoral ministry. How did that call manifest itself in your life?

About the age of eight. I felt an internal preach the Word of God. What does that mean to an eight-year-old? You know, I don't really know I I just knew that the the pastors that were in my life. My uncle being one of them very involved in my life.

And I just knew that it seemed compelling to me what they did a week in a week out and preaching the Word of God. I never had a real clear where I would be a pastor or a missionary. I just knew this matter of preaching where you're standing before God God's people.

There was something internally compelling About that to me from a very young age the the elders of your abilities desires within you. And so that began to happen when I was a teenager. Began encouraging me to speak publicly first to the youth group and before the larger church I've ordained as a teenager and as you do that you you people begin to confirm externally that yes, this is this is more of a matter of the Lord's calling on this man's life, and it's less of a matter of Something that he just wants to do and it works out differently with everyone.

But for me there was strong internal call than the strong external call and by that point point no return. I mean, what are you going to do everyone around you that loves you senses? God's calling upon your life and so explain.

With Ligonier. Yeah, I said. I posted that.

Discussion he had on my Facebook page. Yeah, I mean I thought what he said was just spot-on where it's not that Pastors we couldn't do something else, but it's that we must do. And man that resonates with me.

There's nothing I want to do more and even if there was My conscience would not allow me to pursue it.

So you eventually obviously Received a call to the pastor at Christ Reformed Community Church of st. Augustine, Florida, and I'm assuming from my Memory that that's the way the Floridians pronounce it st. Augustine not Augustine, right?

Yeah, theologians pronounce it Augusta. Well some some don't but.

But tell us about the Christ Reformed Community Church in st. Augustine, Florida.

Yeah, well it was in this area we are located right right now our mutual friend.

Pastor Keith Foskey who.

Pastors Sovereign Grace Family Church in Jacksonville. Yes. Yes, Keith and I are good friends and go back many years. Yeah, the church. I'm the founding pastor. It was started by me and another gentleman who's also an elder time what we have mutual friends who are pastors that connected us.

And I was obviously preaching in a different kind word was using me there. But after talking and praying through and seeking counsel The Lord made it very very clear that this would be something worth pursuing.

So we established the church in September of 2015 and The church actually for family worship and then out of that was birthed a congregation. That I'm very grateful and privileged to have the honor of pastor.

Is this a confessional Reformed Church. Yes and.

Confessional, yeah, we would be a conglomeration of Westminster people and second London Baptist. We use both confessions. We utilize both confessions in the public worship of terms of teaching Sunday school and catechist believers.

Back. We interestingly have quite a few Pato Baptists that that are part of our church and and enjoy worshiping the Lord and enjoy the theology. So there is our church is unique in that sense because Pato Baptists and Believers Baptist people get along and love each other and there's a sweet Christian.

Well, we hopefully will repeat this information later. But if anybody wants to find out more about Christ Reformed Community Church in st. Augustine, Florida The website is Christ Reformed cc .com. Christ Reformed cc .com.

Well as we said at the outset of the program our discussion today will be on Calvin's return to Geneva from his exile and Why this date in history is significant. In fact, the actual date is Let's see it is This Friday, correct?

Yes, 41. Yes, and I think it'd be wise even though This is a reformed show. Although I don't exclusively interview reforms guests, but predominantly I do. And I'm assuming that the majority of my listeners are reformed and know who John Calvin was.

I am knowledgeable of the fact that we do have Non-reformed listeners, we even have some unbelieving listeners. We even have listeners from outside of the Protestant Reformation we have Roman Catholics who listen and we even have Muslims and members of cults and so on listening on occasion.

They make their selves known to me through email and so on. But especially for the sake of our listeners who either don't know who John Calvin was or have a completely fictitious understanding of who he was.

Can you give us a very brief summary because our listeners can go to the archives of iron sharpens iron radio .com and if you type in the search engine John Calvin or even just Calvin you will get a number of past programs on the subject of John Calvin and If you go to cvbbs .com which is the website for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service you will get a whole list of Books a huge list of books on John Calvin and of course our other sponsors solid-gram-books .com solid-gram-books .com they have a very large assortment of books on John Calvin and some by John Calvin.

But if you could give us a brief summary of who he was just so we can get some context.

Sure. Yeah, but he wasn't in July 10th 1509 and like anyone else During that time period he grew up in a very staunch Roman Catholic home perhaps even more staunch than than others because his father was some sort of administrator with The large Cathedral that was located there and oil his father was friends with priests and Knew some people very very high up in the church and his father encouraged him from a very young age to to enter Enter the priesthood which Calvin was was more than willing to honor his his father in that but somewhere along the way Calvin's dad fell out of favor with the church and So when he was when Calvin was about 14 years old He was sent to study sometime during that period his father had a falling out with the church.

And so in 1528 when Calvin was about 19 years old his father said I want you to be a lawyer. And I want you to go to law school in law. There's to know that Calvin was about eight or nine years old when Martin Luther nailed the 95cc of Germany.

So that gives some context the Reformation was already occurring. Calvin would have been and particularly when he began his studies he Went off to Paris, and he became friends with people that were sympathetic to Reformation teaching.

That along with the fact that his father fell out of favor with the Roman Catholic Church perhaps led him to be more Willing to listen to these reform minded people. I'll degree. He got that in 1532. Julie in 1532 it was a Commentary on the thought that Seneca, but 1533 is really that the important year for John Calvin.

He was 24 years old and he writes in the introduction to one of his commentaries on the psalms that he experienced in 1533 what he called a sudden this to mean will of Jesus Christ that he forsook the Works oriented salvation of the Roman Catholic Church because in that same year of 1533 he had Because there were some reformed minded people there.

In particular a man by the name of Nicholas caught of the University of Paris the story gets really interesting and picks up momentum. A reformer and he was not a closet reformer. He was he loved Luther.

He loved the doctrine of justification and so in his inaugural is for the beginning of the school year he preached a message that upheld the doctrine of justification. Alvin was actually the writer a stamp manuscript that was in Calvin's own handwriting behind this and he fled town.

Before Nicholas Copp ever even was on the run people knew Calvin was behind this in the meantime Copp was brought with heresy and that left John Calvin in this period of exile from about 1533 to 1536 he moved around different parts of France.

But he ended up at the estate of a man by the name of Louis de Tillet. Who was a wealthy man who had a beginning to grow in his salvation and his knowledge of Christ. He began to search out in this library the sources of the church fathers.

And he began reading the church fathers and comparing this with with what he was taught in the Roman Catholic that the church fathers did not teach. What the Roman Catholic Church was teaching in his in his own day?

Three-year period what was a period where he really grew theologically and actually then published in March of 1536 at the young age of 26 of the.

Now would you say that one of the Differences or some of the differences that separated Calvin and Luther. Of course Calvin had the shoulders of Luther to stand on since Luther. Although they were contemporaries as far as the fact that they lived at the same time as you were saying earlier Luther is older and God used him to launch the Reformation before Calvin.

But would you say that where Calvin eventually landed in his theology You and I as Reformed Baptists would believe. Typically anyway, I don't know if you will agree with me or not, but I'm a pretty certain you will.

Reformed Baptists would typically think. In fact even Presbyterians would think that Calvin departed from Rome in much more of a radical and Vivid way than Luther. Did that that Calvin? Even though he perhaps had a more Spiritual significant Significance or or should I say held the sack the sacraments of the church?

With more spiritual significance than many Baptists and evangelicals do today. He certainly did not attribute regeneration to the the sacrament of baptism as Luther did and and perhaps had a Less Spiritually significant view of the sacrament of the Lord's table than Luther did.

I know that He was not strictly a memorialist as many attribute to the teaching of Zwingli, although there is some dispute over how much of a memorialist Zwingli was but he certainly Today I think would have more of a Protestant understanding of those two sacraments than Luther.

Would do you agree with me on that? Oh.

Definitely because not merely a reformer in terms of what he believed and in his theology. But he he was out to reform the liturgy of the church. He was. You even think about William Farrell who was his his predecessor in Geneva.

William Farrell was Endorsing iconoclastic Practical font in the three churches in Geneva and although we don't know if conviction Iconoclastic sort of activities we do know that he.

He was good friends with William Farrell right. Farrell is the one that basically guilt tripped him into.

Returning to Geneva wasn't it? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, he was because Calvin was Was very shy. He was an introvert by nature He word he was reverent. He he he understood the The importance of what he was doing and He was an introvert by nature He wanted to to study and the right pride he wrote the Institute's the first edition in March of 1536 I think it was the very next August of 1536 that He decided to in southwest Germany and in God's providence.

He was forced to take a detour. He had to take different roads and had to pass through Geneva. He had no plans of passing through Geneva and He ended up staying the night there and William Farrell who was already in Geneva at that time Either of the Institute's be John Calvin was in Geneva and actually pronounced a career.

You know, you're this you're this great organizer of theological truth. We need you in Geneva and Calvin said yeah, I'm okay. No, thank you I'm heading to Stroudsburg and I'm gonna be just talk that he was so sensitive in his conscience to the leading of God in his Life God speaking through that is why he stayed in Geneva for his first in his pastor for two years it was because he felt that that God might curse his studies and he didn't want to dishonor the Lord and So yeah, we can give credit to William Farrell right wrong or indifferent.

The threat was what made Calvin Come to Geneva in the first. All right, when we come back from the break.

I just have a quick question for you about Farrell regarding something you said. So if I forget to ask you, please remind me, but we're going to our first break right now. And if anybody wants to join us our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

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We'll be right right back with Andrew Smith and our discussion on Calvin's return to Geneva from his exile. When iron sharpens iron radio first launched in 2005 the publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.

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If you love this program Please continue to purchase books from solid-ground-books .com. And we are now back with our guest Andrew Smith pastor of Christ Reformed Community Church in st. Augustine, Florida.

We are discussing Calvin's return to Geneva from his exile and why this state in history is significant. Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. Chris arnzen at gmail .com. Please give us your first name at least your city and state and Your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. And the question I had for you about Farrell Pastor Andrew is you said that he was removing the baptismal fonts from the the sanctuaries or the church buildings.

Was this because he became at least at some point a Non-believer in the ordinance or sacrament of baptism or what was the reason for that?

At the request of the town council of Geneva itself. So one of the things that is very critical to understand about John Calvin and his ministry He was not this this dictator that that everyone says that he was.

What by the time that he arrived in Geneva Geneva had separated themselves from the house of Savoy? The house of Savoy was ran by the Duke of Savoy and Basically the house of Savoy controlled Geneva for years and years and years and the Geneva's did not like this.