Calciumboy and KJVOnlyism; Islam and the Deity of Christ; Rome and Total Depravity

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Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line
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The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence
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Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reformed
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Baptist Church This is a live program and we invite your participation if you'd like to talk with dr.
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White call now 602 nine seven three four six zero two or toll -free across the
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United States. It's one eight seven seven seven five three Three three four one and now with today's topic.
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Here is James white And good morning, welcome to the dividing line on a
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Tuesday morning Glad to be back from traveling this weekend have a few things that we can look at here
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Hopefully lined up we were having some technical difficulties And so we were running about and we'll we'll see if this is all kind of work or not
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But of course we can take your phone calls at eight seven seven seven five three three, three, four one eight seven seven seven five three three three four one
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On good morning America this morning. They were doing eye surgery live a new option
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Other than LASIK is the implantation of permanent contact lenses right beneath the iris doesn't require slicing dicing and so on and so forth and Pretty pretty wild stuff.
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Yeah, and they did it run this NBC guy right on the air and and You know,
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I'm not sure that I'd want my eyeball quite that large on those all those big digital screens, you know People recording those sending it to me for my birthday for 20 years.
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It'd be just really disgusting. But anyways, it was pretty pretty cool So I have here
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Let's see. What do we want to go with first? We have Actually, I haven't queued up the
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Tim Staples thing But I could pull it up fairly quickly and then we have a Jamal Badawi versus John Rittenhouse of Biola last week and I have
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Badawi's comments ready to comment on that. I guess we can start off with the absurd However, and and move to the lessons.
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It's absurd from there Some of you who have been watching
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The The blog and who don't just use the blog for the videos
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I mean, I've got videos lined up all the way into May right now on the blog But you actually go to the
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YouTube page, you know that I have a hundred and forty one videos up now as of this morning 500 subscribers and Just just under 23 ,000 channel views so far.
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So we're I'm catching up with Lane He's got 600 some odd and I'm gonna catch up with the guy eventually he's just he's just, you know given into the inevitable there, but anyway if you follow the the
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YouTube page Then you know that for a while. I have been posting some of the old
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King James only stuff And what I've done is I've I've gone back and revisited the old text
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Mars Controversy from many many many moons ago. I Can't even figure out what text
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Mars is into these days I've been looking at some of his videos and it's just so far out there
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I mean, I thought he was a long ways out there back in the mid 90s. He is Way farther out there now.
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I their text has never met a conspiracy. He didn't like and wasn't willing to promote and somebody pointed me to Some stuff that's one of well an interesting fella named calcium boy
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Was posting on YouTube. I'm not sure why he's called calcium boy other than he's probably the whitest man
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I've ever seen. I Think he's afraid of the Sun. I really do. I mean my last name's white and I'm Scottish So if you remember
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Braveheart and all those Scotsman running at you in kilts, they're white, too So, but he's whiter than we are he's he's very very white and Calcium maybe that's where it comes.
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I don't know. There may be some other thing behind it. I don't know but calcium boy Put up a video about the
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John Ankerberg stuff and You know I had sort of figured a lot of this stuff just sort of die a slow death of itself and go away because it's so inane and and Stupid and silly and and I don't know
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Someone says the channel because he's a diet freak. I didn't know that vitamins. I mean I did see that I did see him doing an advertisement for a special kind of water.
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It's a very expensive water. Did you know that water? Becomes bad water after a certain number of years and it has to be reconstituted as water
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Yes It becomes die hi die hydrous oxide, I'm sure which is also h2o anyway
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It's I had to chuckle it Excuse me while I lose my voice here.
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God strikes me a mute or something it right in the middle I'm sorry, but I did watch one of his videos where he was talking about water and selling water but anyway
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Yeah, it degrades over time that that pesky water. Anyway a calcium boy put up some stuff about Tex Mars and The whole
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Don Wilkins losing his voice Thing and and all that garbage that I had addressed back in 1995 1996 on our website but 1995 and 1996 was not today and It was not the day of YouTube I mean, can you imagine back at the speeds we had back then how long it would have taken just to download the
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YouTube video? so I started responding to it and Once I thought
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I was done responding to it Somebody in channel said well, I've seen that I've seen him lose his voice
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And that's what I found out that what Ankerberg has done is all I had for years and years and years was the videotapes
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That had been put out shortly after The series had been recorded and they were very expensive.
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I think it's about $89 just to buy the two videotapes and So anything I had had was just taken off of old
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VHS tapes lo and behold Ankerberg has digitized his stuff and now you can get digital downloads from from the
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Ankerberg Ministries and what they did is they went back into the fourth episode and I've said all along That all this took place in the fourth episode which as I recall was right after lunch we did three in the morning and then five in the afternoon and What happened was and and it was interesting because again
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All this verified what I had been saying all along just on the basis of my memory of this particular situation
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I remember text Mars and his stuff. He wrote on this. He wrote on this a long long time ago was not there
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All he could text Mars is giving us at best a secondhand report dependent upon probably
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Joseph Chambers, maybe Sam Gipp. I really really really don't think
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Thomas Strauss was a part of this. I would hope not Because he's gonna be the least likely to be a conspiracy while I conspiracy theorist the other guys not so much and so I I'm Firsthand here.
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I'm not going secondhand. I was there. All right, I look different, but I was there and I'm the one who leaned over to art farstad after that fourth program and I said you watch what the
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King James only guys do with this Just that frog in the throat and he looked at me like I was when
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I had landed from another planet But I know these guys and this is what they thrive on.
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This is what they live on so anyway, I Immediately and again, did you notice just in passing?
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Where did I get this information? This was available from the channel how I mean I found out about the
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Talpiot tomb stuff first in the channel I find out almost I mean it is a huge source of information is what goes on in that In that chat channel and the people come in there that dig stuff up and say hey, you know about this
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And most of time ago, yep, but sometimes ago. Nope. Oh, look at that. That's interesting and away we go
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So I got get online download the fourth program and lo and behold what they've done
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Obviously because of the controversy is they've re -edited the fourth program now,
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I should be upset about this Because the way they made the room To reinsert everything with Don Wilkins.
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They took me out Everything I had to say about rippling er just disappeared Gone, if you watch the videotapes what they did is they started you could tell as If you watch what's up there now
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You can get this from Ankerberg's ministry for watch the fourth program You can just hear
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Ankerberg saying got you know guys at one point before one of the programs I forget which one it was one before the prizes guys run
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TV be succinct be clear be fast Don't take a lot of time.
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This is TV. It's got to have pace. It's got to be moving and so What he'd do is he'd tell you before the program.
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Okay, like in the fourth part is Don I'm gonna come to you a second program. He came to me and Asked me to in essence summarize the entirety of the transmission of the
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Bible In 30 seconds, you know, well not quite 30, but it took me at least two or three minutes, but You have to be going quick and he had chided us about this and you can hear him in the new version
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Constantly prompting Don Wilkins and so what he'd said is I'm gonna come to you about Ripplinger So he comes done about Ripplinger.
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He starts to talk and it sounds like that and it's that I mean he's talking His voice was a goddess and then you just he starts to laugh and goes ha
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Lost my voice and he looks right over if you know if you know where we were seated.
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I was it was Ankerberg was in the center and then it was Ken Barker me art farstad who has since passed away and then
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Don Wilkin we were on the one side then the King James only guys and Dan Wallace on the other side and so He he was right over to my right and you can see by the way he's sitting
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He's looking at the King James only guys and he's laughing He's probably looking at Gipper Chambers and he's laughing as he reaches down gets a cup of water
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Sips the water and and and Ankerberg says, okay, you ready to go? Okay. All right, so Don What about Gail Ripplinger and and away away we go again
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But even when he starts giving his responses you can hear Ankerberg going. So what did you find?
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So what were your conclusions you can tell I could tell even at that time that he was gonna be editing most of this stuff out because Don wasn't responding with a quick enough pace that he wanted for television and So in the
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VHS version they finally cut into his response at really toward the end and then went to me and I Then picked up on a on basically the idea that Gail Ripplinger claims that God gives her this stuff
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That's you know sort of divine revelation kind of kind of stuff Which you would think King James only people have a problem with but as we'll discover here in a moment, they don't
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Well, that's gone what I said gone And what they've done is they have put the whole
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Wilkin response in and So I put a video up on the on the my youtube page.
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It gives you both it gives you now the digital version and then the original version so you can see you've got the whole thing now and So lo and behold calcium boy
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Posts a response And it's all text. There's he doesn't put himself on this at all.
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There's no audio. It's just all text and Do lots just change just named a calcium
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Boyden channel. You're lying. Thank you very much anyway So it starts off as I watch
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James White's videos Titled text Mars parts 1 through 4 since the videos dress me directly. I am posting this response
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Well, actually, it's not just 1 through 4. I then added fifth part once I found that particular little thingy
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Bobby Wobber there and so I wanted to put this video on my system so I could you know watch it, but And fast -forward it, but I couldn't
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I'm having to download directly He says it's funny and sad that white thinks those videos reflect well on him
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Well, I had more hair then but I'm Really sure Bravo to text for standing up to white so boldly now this goes back actually to what
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I first did is I played text Mars phone call to k -i -x -l and where he
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Talked about revelation one one one revelation 111. I mean it made a Complete fool of himself
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I mean It was just it was incredible the things that he said and then as soon as as I started challenging him he ran for the hills
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He said well, I don't want to interrupt your debate now I'm just I've got to go now, you know, these space aliens are landing and the
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Trilateral Commission is outside my door, you know So so what is what is calcium boy here when he hears text
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Mars performance well Bravo to text for standing up to bite So boldly white attempts to portray text as being more emotional than logical and implies that there is something sinful about being angry at a professing
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Christian both common tactics which are refuted with the real Bible so in other words because text
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Mars can do nothing but bluster and accuse me of all sorts of stuff and you know the Point that calcium boy is missing is
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What he was saying was untrue That's he gets
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Bravo from from calcium boy for for behaving in that particular fashion
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It's it's it's pretty amazing. And of course the real Bible, of course would be the King James version of the
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Bible But so this was yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, in fact people need to know calcium boy is the fellow
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Who ended up in the Republican debate? the YouTube debate because it was
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I had heard about somebody asking the the People the candidates where they believed in the
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Bible what they didn't get was he turned the camera so you can see it was the King James Bible is calcium boy same guy
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Was the one who was on the YouTube Republican debate thing that was going on so anyway
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He goes on to say the way white makes a big deal a big deal out of Texas Typo 1 1 instead of 1 11 talk about straying at a gnat and swallowing a camel
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The point of course was that text Mars doesn't even know which verse he's talking about. He thought it was
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Revelation 1 1 he Then when faced with the fact is Revelation 1 11 wouldn't admit he was wrong.
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That was the point I mean, that's so obvious and yet here's someone who just doesn't doesn't get that the point was he was being dishonest he's never examined the evidence for the reading at Revelation 1 11 and Doesn't have any interest in examining it
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But having not examined it he'll call me a liar and a deceiver and everything else based upon what well his own abject ignorance
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That's what he bases it upon He goes on to say white conveniently can't remember very well the
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Ankerberg debate or the Wilkins incident Actually, I think I remembered it quite well and continues to use footage of a vaguely similar event to prove gross exaggeration to KJV teams part
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No calcium boy. That's not a vaguely similar event. That was the event
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That was the only time and I would gladly Have any of the
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King James only folks that were there on the air and I will look him in the eye if I can
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See him and I will ask them. Is that not exactly what happened and it is
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Exactly what happened and that is the only time and please notice My presentation proves this in a way that calcium boy could pot could not possibly understand
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I remember calcium boy was 10 when this happened and I was there and Since I didn't know that the digital stuff they had re -edited it if You will look at what they've put out on the digital
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It confirms what I had said. I said my recollection. This is I wrote this back in 1995 It's all it's been on our website all that time.
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You can check that I said it was the beginning of the fourth program. I said that it was right the beginning where where Ankerberg and said, okay
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Don, I'm gonna come to you and here's the question I'm gonna ask and that's exactly what they show. There isn't any other place.
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So that could have happened This is exactly the incident and there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever from any credible source whatsoever that says otherwise and I would love to see if Chambers or GIP either one of them would actually come out and say no.
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No, there was something else I I've not seen that. All I see is is calcium boy. I don't see I don't even see text
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Mars saying that I'm only one person that I know of is saying. Oh, no. No, no, that wasn't the incident. It was the incident
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I was there and You're gonna have to find somebody else who was there who has a better memory than I do of the events
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To say to say otherwise, it's not just a vaguely similar event It is in fact the event but notice if calcium boys, right?
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Then that does prove gross exaggeration on the King James version on their part and that's exactly the case
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Next he says and he hypocritically scoffs any talk of conspiracies That should be scoffs at any talk of conspiracies while at the same time applying the
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KJV team conspiracy to invent the Wilkins incident well That assumes of course
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That calcium boy happens to have some information that the entire King James only group
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Was behind providing this information to text Mars who provide this information to text
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Mars. I don't know I'm my assumption is Joe Chambers. That's my assumption
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He is the most likely if not Joe Chambers Sam Gip. I don't believe Thomas Strauss the sources
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I just I have too much respect for Thomas Strauss I I do differentiate between the extreme branches of King James only us and Thomas Strauss would not be it
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He's the d8 group da weight group. Now. Are they extreme? Yes, they can be very extreme in their rhetoric and things like that But there's a difference between them and the
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Ruckmanites and there's a difference between them and the rippling rights and so, you know,
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I at least try to see some some difference there and I just I do not I Do not see any any evidence of that.
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So I'm not I'm not asserting a conspiracy. I think it's all text
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Mars text Mars Obviously lacks the integrity and honesty To honestly deal with this situation he could make anything up He can
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I mean and all anybody has to do is go look at my videos where I've shown you the letters with his handwriting across my letters and I think any rational person who reads what
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I wrote to him and Looks at his response ago. Wow, man, that guy needs to be on regular doses of Valium.
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He's he's he's really whacked That's the rational response, but that's not necessarily calcium boys response
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He says white scoffs the idea. I guess he thinks scoffs doesn't require any other words to be used at it
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It's it's it's scoffs at okay That's that's how the English word white scoffs the idea that God would give
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Gail rippling or in any information Why question mark question mark? Um calcium boy because I don't believe in continuing revelation
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I didn't realize you were a Mormon Well, you're not a Mormon, obviously He says
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I have no idea except perhaps a general lack of faith Resulting in a rationalistic worldview which prides itself on explaining things with anything but the supernatural
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Well, I think the best explanation for Gail rippling errs claims That for example
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God calls it the NAS V not the NAS B Or Gail rippling errs claims for acrostic algebra is
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Probably not supernatural. It's just plain silliness That doesn't make me a super a anti -supernaturalist or a rationalist
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But I don't believe in latter -day revelation I don't believe Joseph Smith spoke for God and I don't believe
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Gail rippling or heard from God either In getting acrostic algebra if you do then
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Well, I think that says a lot right then and there So I'm not sure
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I scoff at that so much as I just find it to be really Inane that anyone would would have that kind of kind of an idea especially in regards to Gail rippling er and the things that she claims in her books and Then he scoffs her
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And then he scoffs her acrostic algebra for no other reason it sounds silly to him again illustrating the hypocrisy
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I've tried to point out of Scoffing such things while at the same time claiming to believe the
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Bible a book in which you'll find a talking donkey well if There's only logically.
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What would that require right there now to acquire that Gail rippling er is as inspired as scripture And you'll wonder why these folks
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Don't take criticism their position real well because in essence, that's exactly what they're saying Acrostic algebra is absurd.
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That's why I scoff at it. It's not just silly. It's absurd It's a required her to call the
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New American Standard Version Instead of the New American Standard Bible, which she herself knows the official what the official name is and then when challenged that was a god
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That's what God calls it. Well. How do you how do you argue something like that you evidently have you know all all?
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All access to God and nobody else does so I guess that's how you I guess that's how you argue defend yourself, but Anybody who wants to look at the acrostic algebra again?
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I put it all my video so you could listen to Gail I put the Gail rippling er stuff up on the on the
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Blog as well. That'll be appearing on the blog if you just want to wait for it if you want to go to YouTube Pages I have you'll be able to listen to my entire debate with Gail rippling er and hey
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You know what? I can just let people listen to that and go you tell me who won this thing
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Pretty obvious to me and to prove my point white later said why would anyone want to believe things that are so utterly fantastic Are you not amazed by the irony?
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Well again calcium boy if you want to make Gail rippling er and New Age Bible versions the 28th book of the
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New Testament Then you've got a basis to do that. But if you actually don't believe the Gail rippling er is inspired of God Then that might indicate sort of a bit of a problem with with that kind of argumentation
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It's Wow now even the canon itself is subject to Expansion in the service of King James only ism white then claims victory in the debate which was purposely planned choreographed and edited in his team's favor by the way and Reiterates his claim that King James onlyist should be
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King James onlyists plural use circular logic as I've explained before It is the new version editors who use circular logic well
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Um, yeah, my biggest argument against King James onlyism for a long time is that it requires you to use
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Standards and arguments that if applied to your own position would refute your own position and I just simply
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Invite anyone to listen to any of the debates. We've actually managed to get people to do which isn't really easy to do
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Um Since King James onlyists aren't really big on doing scholarly debates and judge for yourself
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I think that you will see that he continues as an example they start with the baseless assumption that there can't be a perfect inspired
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English Bible and They end with the assumption that there is no perfect inspired English Bible. Well if you want to relocate the entire concept of Inspiration into a language that did not exist during the days of the
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Apostles Now you're opening up a real Pandora's box That's why there is no such thing as any meaningful
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King James only apologetics against cults and world religions They can't because their system is incapable of doing so they cannot argue against a
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Joseph Smith they cannot argue against these individuals because their thinking is so muddled and So circular that they cannot possibly then engage other systems and criticize those other systems in any type of consistent fashion at all
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The question is not well, there can't be an inspired English Bible Hey, if we want to say the body that God had to re -inspire the
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Bible. All right, give us some evidence for it That's not the point The point is the King James translators themselves denied that there is no reason to believe that and you have to first embrace the idea that somehow
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God had lost the Bible and had to re -inspire it in the process to come up with that kind of a position, but Anyway, again, that's what you get when you're dealing with with King James only ism
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So calcium boy continues on again. There's no sound right like that. This is just all a text presentation I'm not sure why that is because most the other ones
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I've seen are not just text Presentation anyways Bible believers on the other hand
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Please note that kind of reasoning start with the reasonable assumption that the KJV is innocent until proven guilty and Continue with the conclusion the
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KJV has yet to be proven an error conclusion, which is open -ended in theory But not in matters of personal conviction and faith.
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Well, it sounds very good. The problem is That every time I have demonstrated that the
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King James for example utilizes a Translation of a word that's an error or it wasn't aware of this particular construction or that particular construction or was based upon You know
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Erasmus's errors in the book of Revelation or something like that The only response I get at that point is well, you just you just hate the
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Bible. You just hate God you're saying God hasn't inspired the Bible and it and it becomes just this circular argument that is presented and and No amount of documentation whatsoever is sufficient to demonstrate any kind of error whatsoever in the
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King James translation totally against of course the perspective of the
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King James translators themselves But at least he met he admits that it's a matter of personal conviction and faith, of course to make
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Christian faith Make the King James translation an object of Christian faith is something that is rather scary to me and Leads to all sorts of problems whether dr
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Gip couldn't explain this quickly enough when put on the spot or his best answers were edited out. I don't know.
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I Doubt anything was edited out from Sam get but in a written debate I assure you more detailed answers could have been given to all the questions posed
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Well, and I just simply say hey take the King James only controversy Take the critics the the books that have written trying to criticize it look for yourself.
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Check the facts I am very confident of the outcome of that. I have demonstrated that a number of times as I have
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Looked at some of the attempted responses to my book and documented the many many errors
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Contained therein by by the way for those interested I think I'm not sure if I mentioned this in the program or not
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But we are going to be doing a new edition of the King James only controversy and it has been 12 years
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Since it's almost 13 years now since it came out So good time to do that and I'll be doing working on that over the next number of months as well continue on with This let's see is a little over halfway through I'm not sure how far
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I can get because I do want to transition out of this White then says KJV only ism is indefensible
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But thousands of omissions and perversions of scripture that directly affect major doctrines are not indefensible It was
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James White and his buddies who are trying to defend the indefensible. That's that's a yeah response That's not a factual response.
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It's not even a logical response Because obviously to say thousands of omissions and perversions of scripture is a circular argument
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It's making the King James the standard. The question is not Whether the King James is a standard it's are these omissions are they perversions?
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That's the whole point That's the debate these folks never engage the debate because they continue to reason in circles all the way through these things
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Yes, King James only ism is indefensible because it requires circular reasoning
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All the time the white then expresses admiration for dr Strauss's weaker and more
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Greek reliant positions in other words even calcium boy recognizes that there's a difference in these guys
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Then he shows a portion of debate which he says speaks for itself But it was just a lengthy attempt to prove the
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KJV can't be infallible because the KJV translators said it wasn't actually it was much more than that If you'll watch some other video as GIP has explained the
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KJV translators thoughts on the subject are Irrelevant and only prove their humility white and Ankerberg's logic is backwards
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So even though the King James translators clearly eschewed any inspiration they recognized they were not inspired
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They were just being humble. That's all there was to it even though you have to go directly against their own words their own recognition of the need for editing and And updating of their work and everything else
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Still we're gonna claim. They were inspired because they were just so humble You can go look at the rest, but I'm not gonna waste any more time on this
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But that it is just it is just so sad to see that King James only ism still has has a presence
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I can honestly say however It does not have the presence it once had it is a they are a dying breed and Properly so because it is not a position that is in any way defensible and someday
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I Don't know that'll ever fully go away But it certainly does not have the impact that it once did eight seven seven seven five three three three four one
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We're gonna take a break come back with Jamal Badawi and John Rittenhouse. We'll be right back Hello everyone, this is
31:45
Rich Pierce In a day and age where the gospel is being twisted into a man -centered self -help program
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The need for a no -nonsense presentation of the gospel has never been greater I am convinced that a great many go to church every
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Sunday yet. They have never been confronted with their sin Alpha Omega Ministries is dedicated to presenting the gospel in a clear and concise manner making no excuses
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Support Alpha Omega Ministries and help us to reach even more with the pure message of God's glorious grace.
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Thank you Public crimes the criminal mishandling of God's Word may be
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James White's most provocative book yet White sets out to examine numerous crimes being committed in pulpits throughout our land every week as he seeks to leave no stone unturned
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Based firmly upon the bedrock of Scripture one crime after another is laid bare for all to see The pulpit is to be a place where God speaks from his word.
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What has happened to this sacred duty in our day? The charges are as follows prostitution using the gospel for financial gain pandering to pluralism cowardice under fire felonious eisegesis entertainment without a license and Cross -dressing ignoring
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God's ordinance regarding the roles of men and women is a public crime occurring in your town Get pulpit crimes in the bookstore at a omen org
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And we'll get back to the dividing line. I have two more Clips and completely different directions to go did half an hour almost on King James only ism now we move to more serious stuff
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I'm not saying King James only isn't serious the whole reason I addressed it is because it has destroyed so many churches
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And I honestly believe a person who holds the King James only position is absolutely without a defense apologetically against cults and isms
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There they spend all their time attacking Christianity They don't they can't defend the faith against other systems because their system is incapable of doing so so it's one of the reasons
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I've addressed it Just trying to be consistent if I'm gonna point my finger at Muslims or Mormons and say you need to be consistent here there and there
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I need to be consistent as well And we certainly do attempt to do so a debate took place last week last
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Thursday Over in Southern, California between the dr. Rittenhouse of Biola and dr.
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Mal battery. I am doing everything in my power To arrange a debate with dr.
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Battery in November of this year Please pray that so that it that will take place because I would very much like to to have that we have an opportunity at a conference there and I I'm very very desirous of having that opportunity of debating dr.
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Battery and the subject was who is Jesus as I want to play just some sections of it, and I could play all of it because I'm doing a
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YouTube video where I'm going to go through this more specifically Especially because while we may not have a whole lot of Muslims who listen to the dividing line.
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We do have some I do know that We we do have I think more who catch the videos
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Because they do a search on Islam and and of course I put all those keywords in and things like that and and these videos come up and so we do know that they are watching what we what we produce there and So the sound isn't quite as good on this because it was
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Open air it wasn't from the from the microphone itself So we might have to crank it up just a little bit
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But I want to just give you a taste of some of the statements that were being made by dr. Battery in his response.
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It's a real short little clip Relatively speaking. There's only about four minutes worth of dr. Battery speaking.
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I'm hoping more of it will come up, but let's let's listen The New Testament is implying that Prophet Muhammad is the author of the
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Quran This is not how the way Muslims look at it The knowledge of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him is nothing as compared with what we believe is revelation from God Yeah, you know you've got to keep that in mind at the same time
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Muslims have to recognize that we're not just going to Grant that from the beginning. I mean I'm going to recognize that the
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Muslim believes that the Quran Existed in heaven and that it is not in any way shape or form
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Modified as it comes through the recitation by Muhammad. I understand that But the the fact remains
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That for me I have to ask what did the author of this book since I don't believe this book is divine
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What did the author of this book understand? and I think one of the problems is the the
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Muslim who cannot get out of the the mindset that he has Has a real hard time when
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I have to basically say well look what the Quran says about my beliefs Since my beliefs are mentioned in the
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Quran You have the Allah kitab the people of the book and you have that the people of the injeel the gospel
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I Have to be able to say look what your book says about us is wrong It's it's just inaccurate now of course for them since that's divine revelation existed in heaven before I was before Muhammad was born
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Then it has to be accurate and so they have to question the accuracy of my own understanding of my own faith
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And that that becomes a bit Problematic obviously at that point in time and that leads to a lot of the problems you have in these debates
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With with Muslims at that point Point by point as much as time allows
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First of all a reference was made that God was manifest in flesh However through Christian sources that I read
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Some manuscript actually read which was manifest in flesh And the reason of the confusion is that in Greek?
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Ho means which host if you add s becomes God and in fact in the
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British medium in Codex a There is an evidence that the
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H or original or the equivalent of H Oh in Greek was added something so it reads host as God in a different type of ink
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Now what he's referring to here, and this is the section that hopefully I'll have posted on my youtube site today
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So if you'd like to see this graphically represented. I've already got the graphics done. Just still working on getting it all put together
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Takes a little while, but so the nice thing is once you've done it once It's usable over and over and over again.
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That's That's that's the nice part about this. You sort of feel like it has some lasting value but What he's referring to here is first Timothy 316 and the textual variant
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He doesn't really fully understand there is Codex D, and the
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Latin does have ha But the actual variance in the Greek manuscripts is between Haas and the
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OS But the problem is and I was illustrating this over the weekend over in California when
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I was projecting this up on the screen The name that the word
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God the OS a theta epsilon Omicron Sigma in the unsealed text was one of the
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Nomena sacred Nomena sacred were the sacred names and they were abbreviated and So as a brave abbreviate is theta
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Sigma with a line over the top Now the other word is Haas which would just be
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Omicron Sigma without the line over the top now in unseal There is very little difference unseals all capital forms of the
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Greek letters a theta and Omicron look identical to one another except the theta has a small line across the center of it and So the difference between the
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OS and Haas would be two small lines now you're writing on papyri papyri will always have lines in it because it's made out of plant fiber and you're also writing on vellum, which is leather, which will also have lines in it and so the
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Ability to confuse the OS and Haas would be very very very easily Understandable the majority of manuscripts say the
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OS but all the earliest manuscripts say Haas and the early writers who would have jumped on that didn't use it and so The majority of modern texts lean toward he who was manifest in the flesh
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Rather than the OS a god who is manifest in the flesh. That is a textual variant and Isn't it wonderful that we in?
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non -muslim countries have the availability of this information and We are encouraged to study these things
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Unlike Islamic countries where you are not encouraged to study Variant readings in palimpsest manuscripts of the
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Quran There's a honestly a huge difference in the way that Christians Understand truth and their scriptures and the way that Muslims Understand truth and their scriptures and that can be seen by just comparing the openness
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That we have in discussing issues such as textual variation with the exception interestingly enough of King James only advocates who interestingly enough have the exact same mindset as Muslims have about the
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Quran Isn't that interesting it's true, but it's interesting anyway
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We discuss these things we put these things out. I Have have spoken in I don't know how many churches all across the
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United States And I have put this stuff up on the screen And I've put the Haas and I've put the theos and I've showed the in fact
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I got a chuckle out of the folks this weekend because for some reason Greek unseals the font that I used
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Doesn't work in Vista so as soon as I got that slide. It was wingdings, so there's skulls and crossbones and airplanes
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So so we had to go the backup plan and thankfully this tablet nice thing about this tablet is
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I just went right over to journal I just just toggled over the journal grab the little pen out of there and wrote it right on the screen
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All sudden the projection screen becomes a screen I can a big whiteboard so we got around it
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But I will need to fix that before I do that presentation find find out why that one font didn't work
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I don't know why it didn't work anyways. We're very open about it and hence the response to Dr..
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Battery statement But again we find through Christian sources
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Based on their knowledge of the Greek language They say this is a figure of speech in Greek where one word is the reality the other one is
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Intensification of that reality so which means then Lord He's talking to Jesus as Lord and my
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God means actually according to Christian and some Christian interpreters You are God like you are
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God like but not God as has been interpreted Now what you discover is that dr.
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Battery should be Raleigh does this all all the Muslims who try to you know at least cite what they call
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Christian sources Will exercise absolutely no discernment whatsoever as to what these Christian sources are in other words any little cult schism the
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Christadelphians Jehovah's Witnesses Mormons, they are all just considered to be Christians Whether they have any mainstream standing whatsoever where they they you know have made up their own translations now
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If we were to go to all the little schismatic Muslim groups and say well look at these people over here who who exalt
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Muhammad and And almost worship this guy, and what about this what you just don't understand what true
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Islam is see Again you try it when I when I debate a
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Sunni I'm gonna do my best as much as I can To focus upon Sunni sources unless it's relevant to the debate of course and and there's evidence that those
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Sunni sources have been Changed or corrupted or biased or something, but the point is I'm going to try to understand
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You know Salafi and and all these various the various groups and subgroups and and everything exists within within Islam and At least try to not bring in those side issues
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It's really irrelevant while debating someone like dr. Rittenhouse and Biola to Throw out something along these lines because obviously you're just you're just quoting these small cult groups the
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Jehovah's Witnesses and the New World Translation especially become the the the primary source that they try to try to Utilize at this point in time so once again
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We see the importance of having a real basic Ability to do apologetics the deity of Christ of Trinity in that area becomes useful in in others
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I'm gonna go ahead and stop with that right there because we've done about 15 minutes on that and then transition doing it's always good to provide a
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Multifaceted program especially on Tuesday because Tuesday during the day most people are working we get more of our calls on Thursday, which is more of the evening time over in the
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East Coast, especially and let's let's talk about Roman Catholicism a little bit and Transfer over isn't an amazing technology.
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I was just I was I was the first thing I played was off of a web browser, and I was reading the text from calcium boy
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That was I downloaded the video and it's in Windows Media Player on one side of my screen now
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I'm going over to iTunes, and I'm playing an mp3 of Tim Staples. You know hey when we first started this ministry
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What could we have done here? We could have put a cassette tape player over here and held a microphone over or we could make copies and pass them out
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That's right. That's right, but passing them out over the internet would be very slow stuff Yeah, the tubes would get would get tend to get clogged
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Well those pneumatic you know trying to get up to poor Carla up in Canada You know she'd be she'd be looking at last week's notes
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They'd finally just arrived frozen solid in the tubes the internet tubes anyway Tim Staples Jim James Swan was kind enough to send me a sound clip from Tim Staples on the subject of depravity well this will
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Well let's let's just listen Catholics and ex -Catholics, and it's a very very respectful
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Study, but we got into the discussion about human nature And I was explaining one of my during one of my classes one of the priest was talking about the difference the
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Calvinistic view of human nature compared to the you know Catholic view is that they see the human nature is wicked
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Well, we see it as wounded Exactly and so what he was you know as I explained this and I got you know
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I got back to my office I had 19 scripture verses showing where man is totally wicked from you know
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John 3 at the end of the John 3 Romans of the chapter 3 and you know and I just He's a very good man.
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He's a Calvin a non -denominational very good man and What you know
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I sat down with him and and talked and said well You know we were created good. You know, but when we fell he said yes, we fell
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We're totally wicked and again. He is one person that you know I found Ephesians chapter 2
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And I said well if you look at it says we are made for good works You know we have that it's not that we have a propensity to them
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But you know and natural law itself sort of drives us towards the good We know when we offend
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God, and I just was wondering if there's any biblical you know
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Rejoinder I could you know get back to him, and they will look at this well I think you're you're close
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Tony You've you've given him some good stuff when you go to Genesis 1 and you see okay God said it is good.
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It is now. I played the rest this last week I just realized that but I didn't play the beginning last time and that's why
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I didn't recognize it But it is I think the beginnings were interesting to what came afterwards because Staples response was really weak, but here's a guy and he's you know these these kind kind of How shall we call it?
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ecumenical Bible studies Type of situation more and more common. I remember Years ago.
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I was invited by a friend of mine to go up and do a Bible study for a few weeks at the place where he worked he was sort of in charge of the place, but and you had all sorts of different perspectives being presented there and What you just heard is a fundamental difference between the
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Bible and Roman Catholics and sadly between Reformed folks and pretty much all non -reformed folks on the issue of the nature of man
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And since we live in such a humanistic age in such an age of exaltation of man's capacities and abilities then we need to realize that really the the biblical understanding of the depravity of man is is very easy to abandon in favor of a much more humanistic perspective and once you've done that once you have
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And it requires Motion in two different directions you have to go away from the biblical presentation of the holiness of God You cannot allow someone to be truly taken and struck by the holiness of God the otherness of God the purity of God You know don't let them read
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R .C. Sproul's book the holiness of God whatever you do Or they're just gonna be all confused and all all messed up and and there's gonna be real problems there
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Because if they if they get hold of that book if they get hold of that understanding That God is holy and what holiness is if if anyone really?
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Finds a way to put themselves in the middle of Isaiah chapter 6 and see the temple vision with Isaiah They're gonna have a real problem being a
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Catholic or an Arminian because the Arminian the Catholic have the same view of man That's that's that's all there is to it
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The Arminian the Catholic pretty much share the exact same view of man And that's why they both end up with a less than biblical doctrine of grace the
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Arminian More inconsistently so and the Catholic more consistently so at that point
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So you've got the one one direction the holiness of God has to be compromised then of course you have to Ignore all of as Tim Staples did we listen to this last week as Tim Staples did in his responses
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Ignore the clear teaching of the incapacities of man No, man is able to come unto me.
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Why what's slavery to sin really mean? What does that mean? Well that those are just those are just you know that's just hyperbole.
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We're not really enslaved to sin really Well, then why does scripture use that kind of language, and why does scripture present to us these tremendously?
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strong words Like death dead in sin Incapable not able to subject oneself to the law of God etc.
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So why is that there? Fundamentally the the battle over the issues of Calvinism is
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Is decided At the very beginning really before you get to the tea
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I've said for a long time that that I present stulip instead of tulip or Srucep or whatever you want to do with the with the thing but Before you can get to the issue of the total depravity of man.
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You've got to start with the absolute sovereignty and holiness of God, and if you will start biblically there and Then go biblically to the nature of man go to the prophets and ask them the question
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What is man outside of God's grace capable of doing in and of himself? What is man capable truly of doing
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That then becomes the question that we that we have to ask once you put those two together the rest of it follows
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The rest of it follows. It's biblical. It's consistent and everything But if you if you fudge there, or if you don't get the the decisions made at that point
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You're gonna have a lot of problems when you're going down the road now. I think I might mention Chris aren't in this week is
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Having a debate on iron sharpens iron which is coming up in a little over an hour from now
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Larry Carino is the Calvinist and the author of tough questions for Calvinists Whose name is completely escaping me at the moment
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He's written on the abortion issue Anyway, see if it's having a debate a live debate on iron sharpens iron
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I Didn't get a chance to listen to it Well, I got a chance to listen to a portion of it yesterday
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But was really not feeling well at all yesterday feeling a bit better today. And so I just was not able to follow that but Anyway, the debate will be going on this whole week all five days all the way through Through Friday, and so if you want to listen to I think it's blogs
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Iron or sharpens blog spot calm. I'm just doing us off top my head. I don't have any browsers up or anything like that but you will be able to hear that that debate and Should be should be an interesting one efflegard -smith.
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Thank you, Micah efflegard -smith is the gentleman who is
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Going against the sharpens blog spot calm. I was right about that one anyways So that's gonna be going on and they'll be hopefully discussing these things.
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I know Larry Carino I know he'll do an excellent job in presenting the biblical Doctrine of the depravity of man and the sovereignty of God in salvation as well
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So if you want to follow up with that that will that will be going on on Chris Arnson's program.
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So anyway Do actually have just enough time to pop back over here since I didn't close it down Let's listen to one more of the statements from Jamal battery.
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I will be responding to all these In video format if you want to catch them on my youtube page
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Which is of course linked from the a omen org front page In 1985 the word actually read as a
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God small g or And I'm quoting you are God like so you see
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Dr. Badawi and a lot of Jehovah's Witnesses are chosen as a lot of Muslims are not afraid to use
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Jehovah's Witness materials as if that somehow is going to carry weight with with Christians not recognizing
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I mean I I It's hard for me to understand why they would do that. I do understand why they use the materials from other people
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I Understand why Bart Ehrman is one of their favorite people to to quote, but I would think they would recognize that Using Christian cults is is no more relevant to us then then are using
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Islamic cults would be to them So I'm really not not sure why
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That that's considered to be much of a much of a strong argument, but unfortunately, that's that's what he's doing
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Now I find it interesting that watching the video here whoever put this together
56:57
Inserted a picture a graphic of the kingdom interlinear So I'm I don't know too many
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Muslims who have a kingdom linear well at maybe on a maybe on a college campus, they might carry something like that around just to You know go after Christians with because how many
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Christians own a kingdom interlinear is I Will never ever ever forget the night many many moons ago on North 16th
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Street when we scheduled a conference a presentation on the
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Kingdom interlinear translation the Christian Greek scriptures and I was sitting there and remember that we had that there was a this was before I went down to the big rooms there was a conference room down there and And I had my my little tape recorder ready to go to tape and I had all my books and there
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I sat just me Until about 730 and then I just packed all my stuff up and went home
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There was nobody there Those were the days
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Yes, those were the days but hey at least now when I talk about the kingdom linear people listen
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See, you're main faithful and nobody who showed up and now you got a chance to actually say something
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So yeah, you're not hearing a word. I'm saying, right? You're listening. You're listening. Oh, yeah Anyway, all right.
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Well, thanks for being on being in the audience today for the dividing line Lord Willard will be here
58:21
Thursday afternoon. Maybe have a few more of your phone calls as well. See you then.
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God bless The dividing line has been brought to you by Alpha and Omega ministries
59:35
If you'd like to contact us call us at 602 973 4602 or write us at P o box 37106
59:42
Phoenix, Arizona 85069 you can also find us on the world wide web at a omen org
59:47
That's a o m i n dot o RG where you'll find a complete listing of James White's books tapes debates and tracks