Calciumboy and KJVOnlyism; Islam and the Deity of Christ; Rome and Total Depravity

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 nine seven three four six zero two or toll-free across the United States. It's one eight seven seven seven five three Three three four one and now with today's topic.

Here is James white.

Technical Difficulties, YouTube Updates, and the Old King James Only Controversy

And good morning, welcome to the dividing line on a Tuesday morning. Glad to be back from traveling this weekend have a few things that we can look at here. Hopefully lined up we were having some technical difficulties.

And so we were running about and we'll we'll see if this is all kind of work or not. But of course we can take your phone calls at eight seven seven seven five three three three four one eight seven seven seven five three three three four one.

On good morning America this morning. They were doing eye surgery live a new option. Other than LASIK is the implantation of permanent contact lenses right beneath the iris doesn't require slicing dicing and so on and so forth and Pretty pretty wild stuff.

Yeah, and they did it run this NBC guy right on the air and and You know, I'm not sure that I'd want my eyeball quite that large on those all those big digital screens, you know. People recording those sending it to me for my birthday for 20 years.

It'd be just really disgusting. But anyways, it was pretty pretty cool. So I have here. Let's see. What do we want to go with first? We have Actually, I haven't queued up the Tim Staples thing. But I could pull it up fairly quickly and then we have a Jamal Badawi versus John Rittenhouse of Biola last week and I have Badawi's comments ready to comment on that.

I guess we can start off with the absurd However, and and move to the lessons. It's absurd from there. Some of you who have been watching The The blog and who don't just use the blog for the videos I mean, I've got videos lined up all the way into May right now on the blog but you actually go to the YouTube page, you know that I have a 141 videos up now as of this morning 500 subscribers and Just just under 23 ,000 channel views so far.

So we're I'm catching up with Lane. He's got 600 some odd and I'm gonna catch up with the guy eventually he's just he's just you know, given into the inevitable there, but anyway if you follow the the YouTube page Then you know that for a while.

I have been posting some of the old King James only stuff. And what I've done is I've I've gone back and revisited the old text Mars Controversy from many many many moons ago. I Can't even figure out what text Mars is into these days I've been looking at some of his videos and it's just so far out there I mean, I thought he was a long ways out there back in the mid 90s.

He is Way farther out there now. I their text has never met a conspiracy. He didn't like and wasn't willing to promote and somebody pointed me to Some stuff that's one of well an interesting fellow named calcium boy Was posting on YouTube.

I'm not sure why he's called calcium boy other than he's probably the whitest man I've ever seen. I Think he's afraid of the Sun. I really do. I mean my last name's white and I'm Scottish. So if you remember Braveheart and all those Scotsman running at you in kilts, they're white, too.

So, but he's whiter than we are he's he's very very white and Calcium maybe that's where it comes. I don't know. There may be some other thing behind it. I don't know but calcium boy Put up a video about the John Ankerberg stuff and You know I had sort of figured a lot of this stuff just sort of die a slow death of itself and go away because it's so inane and and Stupid and silly and and I don't know Someone says the channel because he's a diet freak.

I didn't know that vitamins. I mean, I did see that I did see him doing an advertisement for a special kind of water. It's a very expensive water. Did you know that water? Becomes bad water after a certain number of years and it has to be reconstituted as water.

Yes, it becomes Dihyde dihydrous oxide, I'm sure which is also h2o. Anyway, it's I had to chuckle it Excuse me while I lose my voice here. God strikes me a mute or something right in the middle I'm sorry, but I did watch one of his videos where he was talking about water and selling water.

But anyway Yeah, it did degrades over time that that pesky water anyway, a calcium boy put up some stuff about text Mars and The whole Don Wilkins losing his voice Thing and and all that garbage that I had addressed back in 1995 1996 on our website but 1995 and 1996 was not today and It was not the day of YouTube.

I mean, can you imagine back at the speeds we had back then how long it would have taken just to download a YouTube video? So I started responding to it and Once I thought I was done responding to it.

Somebody in channel said well, I've seen that I've seen him lose his voice. And that's what I found out that what Ankerberg has done is all I had for years and years and years was the videotapes That had been put out shortly after The series had been recorded and they were very expensive.

I think it's about $89 just to buy the two videotapes and So anything I had had was just taken off of old VHS tapes lo and behold Ankerberg has digitized his stuff and now you can get digital downloads from from the Ankerberg Ministries and what they did is they went back into the fourth episode and I've said all along That all this took place in the fourth episode which as I recall was right after lunch we did three in the morning and then five in the afternoon and What happened was and and it was interesting because again All this verified what I had been saying all along just on the basis of my memory of this particular situation I remember text Mars and his stuff.

He wrote on this. He wrote on this a long long time ago was not there. All he could text Mars is giving us at best a secondhand report dependent upon probably Joseph Chambers, maybe Sam Gip. I really really really don't think Thomas Strauss was a part of this.

I would hope not. Because he's gonna be the least likely to be a conspiracy wild-eye conspiracy theorist the other guys not so much and so I I'm Firsthand here. I'm not going secondhand. I was there.

All right, I look different but I was there and I'm the one who leaned over to art farstad after that fourth program and I said you watch what the King James only guys do with this. Just that frog in the throat and he looked at me like I was when I had landed from another planet.

But I know these guys and this is what they thrive on. This is what they live on so anyway, I Immediately and again, did you notice just in passing? Where did I get this information? This was available from the channel?

How I mean I found out about the Talpiot tomb stuff first in the channel I find out almost I mean it is a huge source of information is What goes on in that? In that chat channel and the people come in there that dig stuff up and say hey.

Do you know about this and most of the time I go? Yep, but sometimes I go. Nope. Oh, look at that. That's interesting and away we go. So I got get online download the fourth program and lo and behold what they've done.

Obviously because of the controversy is they've re-edited the fourth program now, I should be upset about this. Because the way they made the room To reinsert everything with Don Wilkins. They took me out.

Everything I had to say about rippling er just disappeared poof gone if you watch the videotapes. What they did is they started you could tell as. If you watch what's up there now? You can get this from Ankerberg's ministry for watch the fourth program.

You can just hear Ankerberg saying got you know guys at one point before one of the programs I forget which one it was one before the prizes guys run TV be succinct be clear be fast. Don't take a lot of time.

This is TV. It's got to have pace got to be moving and so. What do you do is he tell you before the program? Okay, like in the fourth part is the Donning and come to you second program he came to me and Asked me to in essence summarize the entirety of the transmission of the Bible.

In 30 seconds, you know. Well not quite 30, but it took me at least two or three minutes, but You have to be going quick, and he had chided us about this and you can hear him in the new version. Constantly prompting Don Wilkins, and so what he'd said is I'm gonna come to you about rippling er so he comes done about rippling er.

He starts to talk and it sounds like that, and it's that I mean he's talking his voice was a god. But yeah, and then you just he starts to laugh and goes ha I lost my voice. And he looks right over if you know if you know where we were seated I was it was Ankerberg was in the center, and then it was Ken Barker me art farstad who has since passed away, and then Don Wilkin we were on the one side and the King James only guys and Dan Wallace on the other side and so He he was right over to my right and you can see by the way.

He's sitting he's looking at the King James only guys, and he's laughing. He's probably looking at Gipper Chambers. And he's laughing as he reaches down gets a cup of water. Sips the water and and and anger where he says okay, you're ready to go, okay, all right, so Don.

What about Gail Rippling and and away away? We go again, but even when he starts giving his responses you can hear Ankerberg going so what did you find? So what were your conclusions you can tell I? Could tell even at that time that he was gonna be editing most of this stuff out because Don wasn't responding with a quick enough pace.

That he wanted for television and so in the VHS version. They finally cut into his response at really toward the end and then went to me. And I then picked up on a on basically the idea that Gail Rippling her claims that God gives her this stuff.

That's you know sort of divine revelation kind of kind of stuff. Which you would think King James only people would have a problem with but as we'll discover here in a moment. They don't. Well, that's gone what I said gone and what they've done is they have put the whole Wilkin responsive and So I put a video up on the on My YouTube page it gives you both it gives you now the digital version and then the original version so you can see you've got the whole thing now and So lo and behold calcium boy Post the response.

And it's all text. There's he doesn't put himself on this at all. There's no audio. It's just all text and Do lots just change just named a calcium Boyden channel, but you're lying. Thank you very much anyway.

So it starts off as I watch James White's videos title text Mars parts 1 through 4 since the videos address me directly I am posting this response. Well actually it's not just 1 through 4. I then added fifth part once I found that particular little thingy Bobby Wobber there and so I wanted to put this video on my system, so I could you know watch it, but And fast-forward it, but I couldn't I'm having to download directly.

He says it's funny and sad that white thinks those videos reflect well on him. Well, I had more hair then but I'm really sure Bravo to text for standing up to white so boldly now this goes back actually to what I first did is I played text Mars phone call to k-iXl and where he talked about Revelation 1 1 1 Revelation 111 I mean it made a Complete fool of himself.

I mean it was just it was incredible the things that he said and then as soon as as I started Challenging him he ran for the hills. He said well. I don't want to interrupt your debate now I'm just I've got to go now.

You know these space aliens are landing and the Trilateral Commission is outside my door. You know. So so what is what is calcium boy here when he hears text Mars performance well Bravo to text for standing up to wait so boldly.

What attempts to portray text as being more emotional than logical and implies that there's something sinful about being angry at a professing Christian both common tactics Which are refuted with the real Bible?

So in other words because text Mars can do nothing but bluster and Accused me of all sorts of stuff, and you know the point that calcium boys missing is what he was saying was untrue. That's he gets Bravo from from calcium boy for for behaving in that particular fashion.

It's it's it's pretty amazing and of course the real Bible of course would be the King James version of the Bible. But so this was yeah, yeah, well yeah, in fact people need to know calcium boy is the fellow Who ended up in the Republican debate?

The YouTube debate because it was I had heard about somebody asking the the People the candidates where they believed in the Bible. What they didn't get was he turned the camera so you can see it was the King James Bible.

Is calcium boy same guy. Was the one who was on the YouTube Republican debate thing it was going on so anyway He goes on to say the way white makes a big deal a big deal out of Texas. Typo 1 1 instead of 1 11 talk about straying at a gnat and swallowing a camel.

The point of course was that text Mars doesn't even know which verse he's talking about. He thought it was Revelation 1 1 he Then when faced with the fact is Revelation 1 11 wouldn't admit he was wrong.

That was the point. I mean, that's so obvious and yet here's someone who just doesn't doesn't get that the point was he was being dishonest. He's never examined the evidence for the reading at Revelation 1 11 and Doesn't have any interest in examining it, but having not examined it.

He'll call me a liar and a deceiver and everything else based upon what well his own abject ignorance. That's what he bases it upon. He goes on to say white conveniently can't remember very well the Ankerberg debate or the Wilkins incident.

Actually, I think I remembered it quite. Well and continues to use footage of a vaguely similar event to prove gross exaggeration to KJV team's part. No calcium boy. That's not a vaguely similar event.

That was the event that was the only time and I would gladly Have any of the King James only folks that were there on the air. And I will look him in the eye if I can see him. And I will ask them is that not exactly what happened, and it is Exactly what happened, and that is the only time and please notice My presentation proves this in a way the calcium boy could pot could not possibly understand remember calcium boy was 10 when this happened and I was there and Since I didn't know that the digital stuff.

They had re-edited it if you will look at what they've put out on the digital. It confirms what I had said. I said my recollection. This is I wrote this back in 1995. It's all it's been on our website all that time you can check that I said it was the beginning of the fourth program.

I said that it was right the beginning where where Ankerberg had said okay, Don. I'm gonna come to you, and here's the question I'm gonna ask and that's exactly what they show there isn't any other place, so that could have happened.

This is exactly the incident and there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever from any credible source whatsoever That says otherwise, and I would love to see if Chambers or GIP either one of them would actually come out and say no no there was something else I I've not seen that all I see is is calcium boy.

I don't see I don't even see text Mars saying that I'm only one person that I know of is saying oh no no no that wasn't the incident it was the incident I was there and You're gonna have to find somebody else who was there who has a better memory than I do of the events.

To say to say otherwise. It's not just a vaguely similar event. It is in fact the event but notice if calcium boy is right then that does prove gross Exaggeration on the King James version on their part and that's exactly the case next he says and he Hypocritically scoffs any talk of conspiracies that should be scoffs at any talk of conspiracies.

Well the same time applying the KJV team conspiracy to invent the Wilkins incident well That assumes of course That calcium boy happens to have some information that the entire King James only group Was behind providing this information to text Mars who provide this information to text Mars.

I don't know I'm my assumption is Joe Chambers. That's my assumption. He is the most likely if not Joe Chambers Sam Gip. I don't believe Thomas Strauss the sources I just I have too much respect for Thomas Strauss.

I I do differentiate between the extreme branches of King James only us and Thomas Strauss would not be it. He's the d8 group da weight group now. Are they extreme yes? They can be very extreme in their rhetoric and things like that.

But there's a difference between them and the Rock of Nights, and there's a difference between them and the rippling rights and so you know I at least try to see some some difference there, and I just I do not I Do not see any any evidence of that so I'm not I'm not asserting a conspiracy.

I think it's all text Mars text Mars Obviously lacks the integrity and honesty. To honestly deal with this situation he could make anything up. He can I mean and all anybody has to do is go look at my videos where I've shown you the letters.

With his handwriting across my letters. And I think any rational person who reads what I wrote to him and looks at his response to go wow. Man that guy needs to be on regular doses of Valium. He's he's he's really whacked.

That's the rational response, but that's not necessarily calcium boys response. He says white scoffs the idea. I guess he thinks scoffs doesn't require any other words to be used at it. It's it's it's scoffs at okay.

That's that's how the English word white scoffs the idea that God would give Gail rippling or any information. Why question mark question mark um calcium boy because I don't believe in continuing revelation.

I didn't realize you were a Mormon. Well, you're not a Mormon obviously. He says I have no idea except perhaps a general lack of faith. Resulting in a rationalistic worldview which prides itself on explaining things with anything, but the supernatural.

Well, I think the best explanation for Gail rippling errs claims That for example God calls it the NASV not the NASB. Or Gail rippling errs claims for acrostic algebra is Probably not supernatural. It's just plain silliness.

That doesn't make me a super a anti-supernaturalist or irrationalist. But I don't believe in latter-day revelation. I don't believe Joseph Smith spoke for God, and I don't believe Gail rippling or heard from God either.

In getting acrostic algebra if you do then well, I think that says a lot right then and there. So I'm not sure I scoff at that so much as I just find it to be really Inane that anyone would would have that kind of kind of an idea especially in regards to Gail rippling er and the things that she claims in her books and.

Then he scoffs her. And then he scoffs her acrostic algebra for another reason it sounds silly to him again illustrating the hypocrisy I've tried to point out of. Scoffing such things while at the same time claiming to believe the Bible a book in which you'll find a talking donkey well if There's only logically what would that require right there?

That would require that Gail rippling er is as inspired as scripture, and you'll wonder why these folks Don't take criticism their position real well because in essence. That's exactly what they're saying.

Acrostic algebra is absurd. That's why I scoff at it. It's not just silly. It's absurd. It's a required her to call the new American Standard version Instead of the new American Standard Bible which she herself knows the official what the official name is and then when challenged that was a god.

That's what God calls it. Well. How do you how do you argue something like that? You evidently have you know all all All access to God and nobody else does so I guess that's how you I guess that's how you defend yourself, but Anybody who wants to look at the acrostic algebra again?

I put it all my video so you could listen to Gail. I put the gill rippling er stuff up on the on the Blog as well that'll be appearing on the blog if you just want to wait for it if you want to go to YouTube Pages I have you'll be able to listen to my entire debate with gill rippling er and hey You know what I can just let people listen to that and go you tell me who won this thing.

Pretty obvious to me and to prove my point white later said why would anyone want to believe things that are so utterly fantastic. Are you not amazed by the irony. Well again calcium boy if you want to make gill rippling er and New Age Bible versions the 28th book of the New Testament.

Then you've got a basis to do that, but if you actually don't believe the gill rippling er is inspired of God. Then that might indicate sort of a bit of a problem with with that kind of argumentation.

That it's Wow now even the canon itself is subject to expansion in the service of King James only ism. White then claims victory in the debate which was purposely planned Choreographed and edited in his team's favor by the way and reiterates his claim that King James only ist.

Should be King James only ists plural use circular logic as I've explained before it is the new version editors who use circular logic. Well. Um yeah, my biggest argument against King James only ism for a long time is that it requires you to use Standards and arguments that if applied your own position would refute your own position.

And I just simply invite anyone to listen to any of the debates. We've actually managed to get people to do which isn't really easy to do. Um. Since King James only us aren't really big on doing scholarly debates and judge for yourself I think that you will see that he continues as an example.

They start with the baseless assumption that there can't be a perfect inspired English Bible. And they end with the assumption that there is no perfect inspired English Bible. Well if you want to relocate the entire concept of Inspiration into a language that did not exist during the days of the Apostles.

Now you're opening up a real Pandora's box. That's why there is no such thing as any meaningful King James only apologetics against cults and world religions. They can't because their system is incapable of doing so they cannot argue against a Joseph Smith.

They cannot argue against these individuals because their thinking is so muddled and So circular that they cannot possibly then engage other systems and criticize those other systems in any type of consistent fashion at all.

The question is not well there can't be an inspired English Bible. Hey, if we want to say the body that God had to re-inspire the Bible all right give us some evidence for it. That's not the point the point is the King James translators themselves denied that there is no reason to believe that and you have to first embrace the idea that somehow God had lost the Bible and had to re-inspire it in the process to come up with that kind of a position but Anyway, again, that's what you get when you're dealing with with King James only ism.

So calcium boy continues on again. There's no sound right like that. This is just all a text presentation. I'm not sure why that is because most the other ones I've seen are not just text Presentation anyways.

Bible believers on the other hand. Please note that kind of reasoning start with the reasonable assumption that the KJV is innocent until proven guilty and Continue with the conclusion the KJV has yet to be proven an error conclusion.

Which is open-ended in theory, but not in matters of personal conviction and faith. Well it sounds very good. The problem is That every time I have demonstrated that the King James for example utilizes a Translation of a word that's an error or it wasn't aware of this particular construction of that particular construction or was based upon You know Erasmus's errors in the book of Revelation or something like that.

The only response I get at that point is well you just you just hate the Bible you just hate God. You're just saying God hasn't inspired the Bible and it and it becomes just this circular argument that is presented and and No amount of documentation whatsoever is sufficient to demonstrate any kind of error whatsoever in the King James translation totally against of course the perspective of the King James translators themselves.

But at least he met he admits that it's a matter of personal conviction and faith of course to make Christian faith. Make the King James translation an object of Christian faith is something that is rather scary to me and Leads to all sorts of problems.

Whether dr. Gip couldn't explain this quickly enough when put on the spot or his best answers were edited out. I don't know I Doubt anything was edited out from Sam get but in a written debate I assure you more detailed answers could have been given to all the questions posed well.

And I just simply say hey take the King James only controversy. Take the critics the the books that have written trying to criticize it look for yourself check the facts. I am very confident of the outcome of that.

I have demonstrated that a number of times as I have Looked at some of the attempted responses to my book and documented the many many errors Contained therein by by the way for those interested I think I'm not sure if I mentioned this in the program or not.

But we are going to be doing a new edition of the King James only controversy, and it has been 12 years Since it's almost 13 years now since it came out so good time to do that. And I'll be doing working on that over the next number of months as well.

Continue on with. This let's see is a little over halfway through. I'm not sure how far you get because I do want to transition out of this. White then says KJV only ism is indefensible. But thousands of omissions and perversions of scripture that directly affect major doctrines are not indefensible.

It was James White and his buddies who are trying to defend the indefensible. That's that's a yeah response. That's not a factual response. It's not even a logical response because obviously to say thousands of omissions and perversions of scripture is a circular argument.

It's making the King James the standard. The question is not Whether the King James is a standard. It's are these omissions are they perversions. That's the whole point. That's the debate. These folks never engage the debate.

Because they continue to reason in circles all the way through these things yes King James only ism is indefensible. Because it requires circular reasoning all the time the white then expresses admiration for dr. Strauss's weaker and more Greek reliant positions.

In other words even calcium boy recognizes that there's a difference in these guys. Then he shows a portion of debate which he says speaks for itself. But it was just a lengthy attempt to prove the KJV can't be infallible because the KJV translators Said it wasn't actually it was much more than that.

If you'll watch some other video as GIP has explained the KJV translators thoughts on the subject are irrelevant and only prove their humility. White and Ankerberg's logic is backwards. So even though the King James translators clearly eschewed any inspiration they recognized they were not inspired.

They were just being humble. That's all there was to it even though you have to go directly against their own words. Their own recognition of the need for editing and and updating of their work and everything else.

Still we're gonna claim. They were inspired because they were just so humble. You can go look at the rest, but I'm not gonna waste any more time on this. But that it is just it is just so sad to see that King James only ism still has has a presence I can honestly say however.

It does not have the presence it once had. It is a they are a dying breed and and properly so because it is not a position that is in any way defensible and someday I Don't know that'll ever fully go away.

But it certainly does not have the impact that it once did eight seven seven seven five three three three four one. We're gonna take a break come back with Jamal Badawi and John Rittenhouse. We'll be right back.

Alpha and Omega Ministries Support and Pulpit Crimes Advertisement

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The Deity of Christ, the Text of 1 Timothy 3:16, and Muslim Use of Christian Sources

Two more Clips and completely different directions to go did half an hour almost on King James only ism. Now we move to more serious stuff. I'm not saying King James only isn't serious. The whole reason I addressed it is because it has destroyed so many churches.

And I honestly believe a person who holds the King James only position is absolutely without a defense apologetically against cults and isms. There they spend all their time attacking Christianity. They don't they can't defend the faith against other systems because their system is incapable of doing so.

So it's one of the reasons I've addressed it. Just trying to be consistent if I'm gonna point my finger at Muslims or Mormons and say you need to be consistent here there and there. I need to be consistent as well.

And we certainly do attempt to do so a debate took place last week last Thursday Over in Southern, California between the dr. Rittenhouse of Biola and dr. Mal battery. I am doing everything in my power To arrange a debate with dr. Battery in November of this year.

Please pray that so that it that will take place because I would very much like to to have that we have an opportunity at a conference there and I I'm very very desirous of having that opportunity of debating dr. Battery and the subject was who is Jesus so I want to play just some sections of it and I could play all of it because I'm doing a YouTube video where I'm going to go through this more specifically.

Especially because while we may not have a whole lot of Muslims who listen to the dividing line. We do have some I do know that. We we do have I think more who catch the videos. Because they do a search on Islam and and of course I put all those keywords in and things like that and and these videos come up and so we do know that they are watching what we what we produce there and.

So the sound isn't quite as good on this because it was Open air. It wasn't from the from the microphone itself. So we might have to crank it up just a little bit. But I want to just give you a taste of some of the statements that were being made by dr. Battery in his response.

It's a real short little clip. Relatively speaking. There's only about four minutes worth of dr. Battery speaking. I'm hoping more of it will come up, but let's let's listen.

The New Testament is implying that Prophet Muhammad is the author of the Quran. This is not how the way Muslims look at it. The knowledge of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him is nothing as compared with what we believe is revelation from God.

Yeah, you know, you've got to keep that in mind at the same time Muslims have to recognize that we're not just going to Grant that from the beginning. I mean, I'm going to recognize that the Muslim believes that the Quran Existed in heaven and that it is not in any way shape or form Modified as it comes through the recitation by Muhammad.

I understand that But the the fact remains That for me I have to ask what did the author of this book since I don't believe this book is divine. What did the author of this book understand? And I think one of the problems is the the Muslim who cannot get out of the Mindset that he has has a real hard time when I have to basically say well look what the Quran says about my beliefs.

Since my beliefs are mentioned in the Quran You have the Allah Kitab the people of the book and you have that the people of the Injil the gospel I Have to be able to say look what your book says about us is wrong.

It's it's just inaccurate now, of course for them since that's divine revelation existed in heaven before I was before Muhammad was born. Then it has to be accurate. And so they have to question the accuracy of the end of my own understanding of my own faith.

And that that becomes a bit Problematic obviously at that point in time and that leads to a lot of the problems you have in these debates.